Re: Breggin theory question

May 30, 2004

Dear Joe,

You said:

<<How is it that so many people take these drugs with no problems,

initiallly? it seems like the corkscrew thing would be universal

right? not just people who have problems.>>

** Hmmm...I've only seen a minority of people who have no complaints

when taking these drugs. Even the most enthusiastic will tell me something

sort of problem. Most will tell you their memory is not as good.

It takes time for the damage to progress in most people. But, it begins

very quickly after beginning these and most psychotropic drugs

(benzodiazepines are an exception to the extreme alteration of brain cells

most of thetime, but they do have their own particular damage they do).

You also have to consider:

1) some people have suffered less assault on the bodily systems than others

making them more easily prone to damage very quickly;

2) P450 enzymes act as filters to keep one safe. Each drug has certain

enzymes it may activate, require for assimilating, or suppress. Not everyone

has each enzyme and the levels of each enzyme can be different person to

person. This is why it makes absolutely no sense to ask someone how a

certain drug is for them and then decide you'll take that drug.

Regards,

May 30, 2004

Thankyou for all the info - and for the proviso at the

bottom. Im trying very hard NOT to let it scare the hell out of me.

Sallyx

> Dear Sally,

>

> You said:

>

> <<I have read this by Dr Breggin but I dont know when it was

> written adn just wondered if there is any latest info on this

> particular part of the 'puzzle':

>

> " prozac prevents serotonin from being removed from the active place

> where its working in the brain. It keeps the sparks alive longer

and

> as a result a lot of excess firing takes place. The brain doesnt

> like all the overstimulation and eliminates 30-40% or more of the

> receptors.' Breggin then goes on to question whether receptors ever

> come back and at the time of writing (whenever that was) he says

that

> Eli LIlly had not carried out any tests to find out (or at least

> certainly none that they were prepared to make public.)

>

> ** Lilly has no interest in pursuing studies that they know

will be

> unflattering

> to them.

>

> First read this:

>

> MDMA (also known as Ecstasy) causes neurons to release a

neurotransmitter

> called serotonin. Serotonin is important to many types of nerve

cells,

> including cells that receive sensory information and cells that

control

> sleeping and emotions. The released serotonin can over-activate

serotonin

> receptors. In animals, MDMA and MDA have been shown to damage and

destroy

> nerve fibers of neurons that contain serotonin. This can be a big

problem,

> because serotonin neurons have a role in so many things, such as

mood,

> sleep, and control of heart rate. Damaged serotonin neurons can

regrow their

> fibers, but the fibers don't grow back normally. The fibers may

regrow into

> brain areas where they don't normally grow, but not into other

brain areas

> where they should be located. The new growth patterns may cause

changes in

> mood, learning, or memory.

> [http://www.kidsgrowth.com/resources/articledetail.cfm?id=1178]

>

> ** Now, just change this slightly to read:

>

> SSRIs increase serotonin in the synaptic cleft. Serotonin is

important to

> many types of nerve cells, including cells that receive sensory

information

> and cells that control sleeping and emotions. The released

serotonin neurons

> being delivered to the receptors can over-activate serotonin

receptors. In

> animals, SSRIs have been shown to damage and destroy nerve fibers

of neurons

> that contain serotonin.[1,2] This can be a big problem, because

serotonin

> neurons have a role in so many things, such as mood, sleep, and

control of

> heart rate. Damaged serotonin neurons can regrow their fibers, but

the

> fibers don't grow back normally. The fibers may regrow into brain

areas

> where they don't normally grow, but not into other brain areas

where they

> should be located. The new growth patterns may cause changes in

mood,

> learning, or memory.

>

> [1] http://www.jeffersonhospital.org//news/e3front.dll?durki=7423

>

> [2] Comparative study of fluoxetine, sibutramine, sertraline and

> dexfenfluramine on the morphology of serotonergic nerve terminals

using

> serotonin immunohistochemistry.

> Kalia M, et al.

> Brain Research 2000 Mar 6;858(1):92-105.

>

> The results of this study indicate that short-term exposure to

selective

> serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) results in changes of rat

brain cells,

> which resemble those induced by the recreational drug Ecstasy.

SSRIs work by

> increasing the concentration of serotonin in the brain through

inhibition of

> their re-uptake by brain cells. Their mode of action is similar to

that of

> the recreational drug Ecstasy, which also increases the

concentration of

> serotonin at the receptor site through a double action of inhibited

reuptake

> and stimulated secretion from brain cells. While Ecstasy-induced

brain

> damage has been well demonstrated in both animal and human studies,

there

> are no data on the effects of SSRIs on brain cells. This study

documented

> that, after only 4 days of intake of SSRIs, rat brain cells

underwent

> morphological changes characterized by swelling and acquisition of a

> corkscrew shape, indicative of occurred damage. These findings

indicate that

> SSRIs, the most commonly prescribed class of antidepressant drugs,

cause

> damage in animal brain cells, after only 4 days of exposure. More

studies on

> humans are needed, before these drugs can be considered safe.

>

> I understand your desire to know these things. However, now

that you

> know you have an obligation to not use it to scare the hell out of

yourself.

> Instead, look around and see all who have come through this. They

survived

> and you will, too. It's a long road but it's worth it.

>

> Regards,

>

May 31, 2004

> Dear Joe,

>

> You said:

>

> <<How is it that so many people take these drugs with no problems,

> initiallly? it seems like the corkscrew thing would be universal

> right? not just people who have problems.>>

>

> ** Hmmm...I've only seen a minority of people who have no

complaints

> when taking these drugs. Even the most enthusiastic will tell me

something

> sort of problem. Most will tell you their memory is not as good.

THe only problem i had on prozac was weight gain and i had a headache

that lasted about a month two summers ago, similar to the one i had

beginning withdrawal. I didn't have any memory problems, which leads

me to think something else has gone wrong, cuz i must have had all

kinds of mutated fibers after 4 years. everything happened when i

stopped. we here know what happens when you stop, but know one has

done any investigation into that or knows what really goes on cuz u

can't with out cutting someones head open.

Another example is my mom, she's been on prozac for 9 years. for her

the drug doesn't seem to work as well, she still gets depreessed and

she has a problem with her libido, which i think she had when she

started it. bbut she has no other problems and she has a superb

memory, etc. So i have no clue what really goes on, cuz i would

think she would have all kinds of corkscrew shaped neuron fibers, and

maybe she does, who knows.

seems like sometimes the withdrawal brings out its own kind of hell

that is sometimes worse than the effects while on the drug.

=joe

>

> It takes time for the damage to progress in most people. But, it

begins

> very quickly after beginning these and most psychotropic drugs

> (benzodiazepines are an exception to the extreme alteration of

brain cells

> most of thetime, but they do have their own particular damage they

do).

>

> You also have to consider:

>

> 1) some people have suffered less assault on the bodily systems

than others

> making them more easily prone to damage very quickly;

>

> 2) P450 enzymes act as filters to keep one safe. Each drug has

certain

> enzymes it may activate, require for assimilating, or suppress. Not

everyone

> has each enzyme and the levels of each enzyme can be different

person to

> person. This is why it makes absolutely no sense to ask someone

how a

> certain drug is for them and then decide you'll take that drug.

>

> Regards,

>

May 31, 2004