Re: STILL SO FRUSTRATED/attracting dysfunctional people

[Guest guest]

>

> BRIDGET & CHRISTINA,

>

> How do we stop attracting these individuals? They're like flies on

> honey. What is the secret in keeping them away permanently? There

> has to be something obvious in us, that draws them.

>

Hi,

Great topic. I wondering if it may not be so much that we attract them

as we stick around when others walk away and that is a direct result

of what we were subjected to as children. When high maintenance people

start acting out and going off most people can't handle it and leave

but we have been conditioned to accept insanity, rages, etc.

I think as we begin to realize those personalities aren't what we

really want and begin recognizing it in others, we begin 'choosing'

differently. They may find us initially but it is we who must decide

if we want to continue playing that role.

This, I think is another example of an automatic conditioned response

from our foo. We stick around and be the caretaker because that is

what we learned. Sometimes it simply never occurs to us that we can

choose differently, or that we deserve better. One question I finally

asked myself after realizing I was repeating the foo dynamic in my

personal relationships was: Do I even enjoy this relationship? Again

it was like it never occurred to me that I had a choice, that I had

that right. I always just dealt with what was handed to me.

But we do have a choice and while recovery sometimes seems like layers

and layers of devastating awareness' about ourselves, our foo and the

way things really were, those painful realizations help show us what

we no longer want. And so hard as they are to digest, they are a big

step in discovering who we really are and what we really want. And

that's huge.

[Guest guest]

Bridget, and , I think for me the problem has always been that I

am afraid

to do what I need to to rid myself of these people. I'm sometimes unsure of my

right to

stick up for myself and even when I know it would be good, I feel like something

BAD will

happen if I do that (hm. . .where would that idea come from?)

The last time I had to stick up for myself I was shaking after I did it(and a

little drama

ensued), but the person in question didn't even look me in the eye for a

month--it was a

blessing for me because he's been driving every one else at work crazy. Even

the normies

say things like, " how do you get him to go away? " I would totally do it again.

It felt really

good. I think for me, it's just a question of saying, " I have the right to do

this, I don't care

if I feel rude and if this guy seeks revenge, well, I can and will protect

myself. "

Good luck, and don't hesitate to be a B*tch to someone like that if you have

to--they have

overstepped your boudaries and so you have every right to be direct.

> >

> > BRIDGET & CHRISTINA,

> >

> > How do we stop attracting these individuals? They're like flies on

> > honey. What is the secret in keeping them away permanently? There

> > has to be something obvious in us, that draws them.

> >

>

> Hi,

>

> Great topic. I wondering if it may not be so much that we attract them

> as we stick around when others walk away and that is a direct result

> of what we were subjected to as children. When high maintenance people

> start acting out and going off most people can't handle it and leave

> but we have been conditioned to accept insanity, rages, etc.

>

> I think as we begin to realize those personalities aren't what we

> really want and begin recognizing it in others, we begin 'choosing'

> differently. They may find us initially but it is we who must decide

> if we want to continue playing that role.

>

> This, I think is another example of an automatic conditioned response

> from our foo. We stick around and be the caretaker because that is

> what we learned. Sometimes it simply never occurs to us that we can

> choose differently, or that we deserve better. One question I finally

> asked myself after realizing I was repeating the foo dynamic in my

> personal relationships was: Do I even enjoy this relationship? Again

> it was like it never occurred to me that I had a choice, that I had

> that right. I always just dealt with what was handed to me.

>

> But we do have a choice and while recovery sometimes seems like layers

> and layers of devastating awareness' about ourselves, our foo and the

> way things really were, those painful realizations help show us what

> we no longer want. And so hard as they are to digest, they are a big

> step in discovering who we really are and what we really want. And

> that's huge.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

You hit the nail on the head. We are so programed. I need to get

out of it. This is so hard.

Let me tell you what happened to me tonight. This person was on the

phone with me on the way home from work. I had to make a stop at

the store and asked if I could hang up and call back in about 10-15

minutes. We debated for at least 10 minutes. Why can't you talk to

me while you're in the store? You've done it before. Finally he

let me go begrugingly. He called back in no time and left a message

with that suspicious doubt as to why I couldn't talk and shop. I

had told him it was easier and faster to not be on the phone. So

when getting in my car before I could dial, the phone rings again

and it's him. Why did you just hang up on me and not say goodbye?

I didn't. I said goodbye. So we debated about that for a while.

What is wrong with this picture. I felt that eeky feeling inside

that I hate. I felt interigated. Oh yes, he even had to know what

I bought in the store. I told him, I knew you were going to ask

that question. It's getting to be a ritiual. Please tell me I'm

not crazy. This is crossing boundaries, right?

And one other question. What does FOG mean?

> > >

> > > BRIDGET & CHRISTINA,

> > >

> > > How do we stop attracting these individuals? They're like

flies on

> > > honey. What is the secret in keeping them away permanently?

There

> > > has to be something obvious in us, that draws them.

> > >

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > Great topic. I wondering if it may not be so much that we

attract them

> > as we stick around when others walk away and that is a direct

result

> > of what we were subjected to as children. When high maintenance

people

> > start acting out and going off most people can't handle it and

leave

> > but we have been conditioned to accept insanity, rages, etc.

> >

> > I think as we begin to realize those personalities aren't what

we

> > really want and begin recognizing it in others, we

begin 'choosing'

> > differently. They may find us initially but it is we who must

decide

> > if we want to continue playing that role.

> >

> > This, I think is another example of an automatic conditioned

response

> > from our foo. We stick around and be the caretaker because that

is

> > what we learned. Sometimes it simply never occurs to us that we

can

> > choose differently, or that we deserve better. One question I

finally

> > asked myself after realizing I was repeating the foo dynamic in

my

> > personal relationships was: Do I even enjoy this relationship?

Again

> > it was like it never occurred to me that I had a choice, that I

had

> > that right. I always just dealt with what was handed to me.

> >

> > But we do have a choice and while recovery sometimes seems like

layers

> > and layers of devastating awareness' about ourselves, our foo

and the

> > way things really were, those painful realizations help show us

what

> > we no longer want. And so hard as they are to digest, they are a

big

> > step in discovering who we really are and what we really want.

And

> > that's huge.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> What is wrong with this picture. I felt that eeky feeling inside

> that I hate. I felt interigated. Oh yes, he even had to know what

> I bought in the store. I told him, I knew you were going to ask

> that question. It's getting to be a ritiual. Please tell me I'm

> not crazy. This is crossing boundaries, right?

Debbie, Everything is wrong with this picture. Stop answering to

him. You are allowing him to invade your private space and your

peace. If you really don't want a relationship with him, make that

clear and quit answering his calls. It's that simple. If you say no

and mean it he will get the message. It's really none of his business

what you do or where you go and least of all what you buy. He sounds

like my Mom...BPD or at least a very intrusive pushy undesirable

person. You are not crazy, just conditioned to think you have to put

up with this crap. Dee

>

[Guest guest]

> What is wrong with this picture. I felt that eeky feeling inside

> that I hate. I felt interigated. Oh yes, he even had to know

what

> I bought in the store. I told him, I knew you were going to ask

> that question. It's getting to be a ritiual. Please tell me I'm

> not crazy. This is crossing boundaries, right?

>

Hi,

I think as KO's it is common to have very few boundaries if any.

Therefore people can intrude upon us and we end up feeling very

violated and vulnerable. We are! People can tap into our energy

field because we are wide open. I think as we begin to connect

within and realize that we have worth, that we have a right to be

here and fully experience life, then we no longer feel comfortable

allowing others to intrude.

We can settle for so little sometimes. I remember one relationship I

was in several years ago and it was emotionally dead and I felt very

unimportant to this man and yet it was hard to leave. I did

eventually, but I remember thinking 'what am I afraid of, I'm not

getting ANYTHING out of this, what will I really lose?' That is when

I began to realize it was about me, not him.

As KO's we weren't taught or shown healthy boundaries so it stands

to reason that we don't have them. It is something we must learn. I

sometimes feel like I am so behind in the game because not only do I

have to learn life skills that others learned early on, but I have

to un-learn the old destructive coping skills too. Double burn.

Twice the work and half the fun..

Take care,

> And one other question. What does FOG mean?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You are not crazy. This is not a healthy interaction between two

people. But don't expect him to understand or accept what you are

saying to him. May I suggest not 'asking' him for permission to do

anything (such as hanging up when you go into the store). Just tell

him what you are going to do, and then do it - immediately. Don't

give him any time to try to 'change your mind'. You do not owe him

any explanations for how you live your life, and he doesn't have any

right to say anything about what you should/should not be doing.

If I remember correctly, this is someone who you have some kind of

business relationship with? If I were in this situation, I would be

working out a plan for both at work and everywhere else to deal with

this guy. I would either change my personal phone numbers, or block

his calls on my personal phones. If I had to, I would tell my boss -

in confidence - " that the business relationship has gone into the

personal area, I recognized that I made a mistake and I am trying to

undo it. " And then I would explain my plan to my boss. Maybe there

is someone else at work that can deal with him?

I know that in some cases it may not be a good idea to discuss this

with a boss, so of course I am not suggesting that you do this if

you think it is going to make it even more difficult at work in

other ways. And you don't have to go into all aspect, just whatever

pertains to the work situation. Even for business, we don't have to

put up with abusive people.

The term FOG stands for 'fear, obligation, guilt'. These are

tactics that our BP parents and other dysfunctional people use to

try to manipulate us into doing what they want.

Take care,

Sylvia

>

> ,

>

> You hit the nail on the head. We are so programed. I need to get

> out of it. This is so hard.

>

> Let me tell you what happened to me tonight. This person was on

the

> phone with me on the way home from work. I had to make a stop at

> the store and asked if I could hang up and call back in about 10-

15

> minutes. We debated for at least 10 minutes. Why can't you talk

to

> me while you're in the store? You've done it before. Finally he

> let me go begrugingly. He called back in no time and left a

message

> with that suspicious doubt as to why I couldn't talk and shop. I

> had told him it was easier and faster to not be on the phone. So

> when getting in my car before I could dial, the phone rings again

> and it's him. Why did you just hang up on me and not say

goodbye?

> I didn't. I said goodbye. So we debated about that for a while.

>

> What is wrong with this picture. I felt that eeky feeling inside

> that I hate. I felt interigated. Oh yes, he even had to know

what

> I bought in the store. I told him, I knew you were going to ask

> that question. It's getting to be a ritiual. Please tell me I'm

> not crazy. This is crossing boundaries, right?

>

> And one other question. What does FOG mean?

>

>.....

[Guest guest]

> Just tell

> him what you are going to do, and then do it - immediately.

May I suggest not telling him what you are going to do. Just do it.

Don't be overly concerned about someone's reactions if they won't agree

with what you do - no matter what you do. Because BPs, often if not

always, just bitch no matter what you do.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

,

I agree with everything that everyone else has said about this situation.

That person sounds very unstable. I would protect myself and be as NC as

possible. You are not crazy. Keep getting support.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- smhtrain2 wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> You are not crazy. This is not a healthy interaction between two

> people. But don't expect him to understand or accept what you are

> saying to him. May I suggest not 'asking' him for permission to do

> anything (such as hanging up when you go into the store). Just tell

> him what you are going to do, and then do it - immediately. Don't

> give him any time to try to 'change your mind'. You do not owe him

> any explanations for how you live your life, and he doesn't have any

> right to say anything about what you should/should not be doing.

>

> If I remember correctly, this is someone who you have some kind of

> business relationship with? If I were in this situation, I would be

> working out a plan for both at work and everywhere else to deal with

> this guy. I would either change my personal phone numbers, or block

> his calls on my personal phones. If I had to, I would tell my boss -

> in confidence - " that the business relationship has gone into the

> personal area, I recognized that I made a mistake and I am trying to

> undo it. " And then I would explain my plan to my boss. Maybe there

> is someone else at work that can deal with him?

>

> I know that in some cases it may not be a good idea to discuss this

> with a boss, so of course I am not suggesting that you do this if

> you think it is going to make it even more difficult at work in

> other ways. And you don't have to go into all aspect, just whatever

> pertains to the work situation. Even for business, we don't have to

> put up with abusive people.

>

> The term FOG stands for 'fear, obligation, guilt'. These are

> tactics that our BP parents and other dysfunctional people use to

> try to manipulate us into doing what they want.

>

> Take care,

>

> Sylvia

>

>

>

> >

> > ,

> >

> > You hit the nail on the head. We are so programed. I need to get

> > out of it. This is so hard.

> >

> > Let me tell you what happened to me tonight. This person was on

> the

> > phone with me on the way home from work. I had to make a stop at

> > the store and asked if I could hang up and call back in about 10-

> 15

> > minutes. We debated for at least 10 minutes. Why can't you talk

> to

> > me while you're in the store? You've done it before. Finally he

> > let me go begrugingly. He called back in no time and left a

> message

> > with that suspicious doubt as to why I couldn't talk and shop. I

> > had told him it was easier and faster to not be on the phone. So

> > when getting in my car before I could dial, the phone rings again

> > and it's him. Why did you just hang up on me and not say

> goodbye?

> > I didn't. I said goodbye. So we debated about that for a while.

> >

> > What is wrong with this picture. I felt that eeky feeling inside

> > that I hate. I felt interigated. Oh yes, he even had to know

> what

> > I bought in the store. I told him, I knew you were going to ask

> > that question. It's getting to be a ritiual. Please tell me I'm

> > not crazy. This is crossing boundaries, right?

> >

> > And one other question. What does FOG mean?

> >

> >.....

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I am Debbie. I was writing to . What does NC mean?

I need to keep getting support because I can be so misled. This

person claims to only be concerned but I have experienced this type

of behavior all my life, especially growing up with my mother. It's

always in the name of concern but it feels so wrong.

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > You hit the nail on the head. We are so programed. I need to

get

> > > out of it. This is so hard.

> > >

> > > Let me tell you what happened to me tonight. This person was

on

> > the

> > > phone with me on the way home from work. I had to make a stop

at

> > > the store and asked if I could hang up and call back in about

10-

> > 15

> > > minutes. We debated for at least 10 minutes. Why can't you

talk

> > to

> > > me while you're in the store? You've done it before. Finally

he

> > > let me go begrugingly. He called back in no time and left a

> > message

> > > with that suspicious doubt as to why I couldn't talk and

shop. I

> > > had told him it was easier and faster to not be on the phone.

So

> > > when getting in my car before I could dial, the phone rings

again

> > > and it's him. Why did you just hang up on me and not say

> > goodbye?

> > > I didn't. I said goodbye. So we debated about that for a

while.

> > >

> > > What is wrong with this picture. I felt that eeky feeling

inside

> > > that I hate. I felt interigated. Oh yes, he even had to know

> > what

> > > I bought in the store. I told him, I knew you were going to

ask

> > > that question. It's getting to be a ritiual. Please tell me

I'm

> > > not crazy. This is crossing boundaries, right?

> > >

> > > And one other question. What does FOG mean?

> > >

> > >.....

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

,

You're absolutely right! They do.

Debbie

> > Just tell

> > him what you are going to do, and then do it - immediately.

>

> May I suggest not telling him what you are going to do. Just do it.

> Don't be overly concerned about someone's reactions if they won't

agree

> with what you do - no matter what you do. Because BPs, often if not

> always, just bitch no matter what you do.

>

>

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

>

[Guest guest]

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > > >

> > > > You hit the nail on the head. We are so programed. I need

to

> get

> > > > out of it. This is so hard.

> > > >

> > > > Let me tell you what happened to me tonight. This person

was

> on

> > > the

> > > > phone with me on the way home from work. I had to make a

stop

> at

> > > > the store and asked if I could hang up and call back in

about

> 10-

> > > 15

> > > > minutes. We debated for at least 10 minutes. Why can't you

> talk

> > > to

> > > > me while you're in the store? You've done it before.

Finally

> he

> > > > let me go begrugingly. He called back in no time and left a

> > > message

> > > > with that suspicious doubt as to why I couldn't talk and

> shop. I

> > > > had told him it was easier and faster to not be on the

phone.

> So

> > > > when getting in my car before I could dial, the phone rings

> again

> > > > and it's him. Why did you just hang up on me and not say

> > > goodbye?

> > > > I didn't. I said goodbye. So we debated about that for a

> while.

> > > >

> > > > What is wrong with this picture. I felt that eeky feeling

> inside

> > > > that I hate. I felt interigated. Oh yes, he even had to

know

> > > what

> > > > I bought in the store. I told him, I knew you were going to

> ask

> > > > that question. It's getting to be a ritiual. Please tell

me

> I'm

> > > > not crazy. This is crossing boundaries, right?

> > > >

> > > > And one other question. What does FOG mean?

> > > >

> > > >.....

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

>

>

> >

> What does NC mean?

>

> NC means no contact. Dee

[Guest guest]

CINDY,

Thank you.

Debbie

> > > > >

> > > > > ,

> > > > >

> > > > > You hit the nail on the head. We are so programed. I

need

> to

> > get

> > > > > out of it. This is so hard.

> > > > >

> > > > > Let me tell you what happened to me tonight. This person

> was

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > phone with me on the way home from work. I had to make a

> stop

> > at

> > > > > the store and asked if I could hang up and call back in

> about

> > 10-

> > > > 15

> > > > > minutes. We debated for at least 10 minutes. Why can't

you

> > talk

> > > > to

> > > > > me while you're in the store? You've done it before.

> Finally

> > he

> > > > > let me go begrugingly. He called back in no time and left

a

> > > > message

> > > > > with that suspicious doubt as to why I couldn't talk and

> > shop. I

> > > > > had told him it was easier and faster to not be on the

> phone.

> > So

> > > > > when getting in my car before I could dial, the phone

rings

> > again

> > > > > and it's him. Why did you just hang up on me and not say

> > > > goodbye?

> > > > > I didn't. I said goodbye. So we debated about that for a

> > while.

> > > > >

> > > > > What is wrong with this picture. I felt that eeky feeling

> > inside

> > > > > that I hate. I felt interigated. Oh yes, he even had to

> know

> > > > what

> > > > > I bought in the store. I told him, I knew you were going

to

> > ask

> > > > > that question. It's getting to be a ritiual. Please tell

> me

> > I'm

> > > > > not crazy. This is crossing boundaries, right?

> > > > >

> > > > > And one other question. What does FOG mean?

> > > > >

> > > > >.....

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

And what is your reply?

> > >

> > What does NC mean?

> >

> > NC means no contact. Dee

>

[Guest guest]

I think Sylvia thought it was me- who had the phone conversation with the

guy who wouldn't let her hang up when she went in the store. As I read that

experience- I thought whoa it's me. Somebody has stolen my identity and is

writing about it online. Funny! Well, not so funny.

I feel for you- letting that person way too far in your life. I just

started doing yoga and they say the mat is your safe spot- the space you

come to that is just for you. Strangely enough as I continue to do yoga I

can actually start to draw the line around my mat for me. Now, I feel my

body and my skin as I do yoga and I think of an red beam outlining my body-

to seal it off. When I started this I was wide open. I did not understand

that I have my very own body and mind that I am in control of. I was like a

jellyfish- totally transparent. I had zero boundaries, I would let toxic

people all the way in, then I would destroy myself even more b/c I couldn't

take them.

I am sorry for this person invading your space- but I am sorrier that we all

have to deal with this and accept it as normal.

I hope next time I deal with my toxic co-worker I am able to just tell

myself- hang up the phone, don't answer, don't respond. I have the right to

this and you do too.

[Guest guest]

> > > >

> > > What does NC mean?

> > >

> > > NC means no contact. Dee

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> What does NC mean?

NC is an abbreviation of " No Contact " .

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

Bridget,

For some reason I can handle the borders with non-personal

relationships, but when I get into that personal relationship,

that's where I die. Why can't I handle those? I feel so bad when

they are livable but when that other personality takes over I want

to run.

Debbie

>

> I think Sylvia thought it was me- who had the phone conversation

with the

> guy who wouldn't let her hang up when she went in the store. As I

read that

> experience- I thought whoa it's me. Somebody has stolen my

identity and is

> writing about it online. Funny! Well, not so funny.

>

> I feel for you- letting that person way too far in your life. I

just

> started doing yoga and they say the mat is your safe spot- the

space you

> come to that is just for you. Strangely enough as I continue to

do yoga I

> can actually start to draw the line around my mat for me. Now, I

feel my

> body and my skin as I do yoga and I think of an red beam outlining

my body-

> to seal it off. When I started this I was wide open. I did not

understand

> that I have my very own body and mind that I am in control of. I

was like a

> jellyfish- totally transparent. I had zero boundaries, I would

let toxic

> people all the way in, then I would destroy myself even more b/c I

couldn't

> take them.

>

> I am sorry for this person invading your space- but I am sorrier

that we all

> have to deal with this and accept it as normal.

>

> I hope next time I deal with my toxic co-worker I am able to just

tell

> myself- hang up the phone, don't answer, don't respond. I have

the right to

> this and you do too.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess what I am asking is what do I do?

debbie

> > > > >

> > > > What does NC mean?

> > > >

> > > > NC means no contact. Dee

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > > > > >

> > > > > What does NC mean?

> > > > >

> > > > > NC means no contact. Dee

> > > >

> > >

> >

>