Guilt......Anger......NADA

[Guest guest]

I know this is nothign new here... for any of us, but I have guilt.

Alot of it. I have a nada, we live together, to make things worse.

(some of you may remember the story).

Anyway, I completely cannot stand to look at her or be around her

anymore, and I certainly cant stand to hear anything that comes out

of her mouth. Its progressively gotten to this point, where I have

had enough of her, and I basically look at her as a big joke , and I

dont even take her seriously anymore. But, she argues constantly,

and all the other stuff bpd's do. But I feel guilt to have these

feelings. She is my mother..... I was raised catholic....this isnt

supposed to happen in my family. Your an animal if you dont want to

talk to your mother, no matter what.(they believe) But, on the other

hand, I am also educated, unlike most of the people in my family,

including nada, and I know that her behavior to me and my kids is

emotionally destructive. And, since I am a nurse, I know that this

bpd is an actual mental illness, so the other side of me thinks I

should be more tolerant and be more supportive of her , as if she

had any other disease. But I cant!!!! She makes me feel so... damn

enraged!!!!! And I hate that, and I feel guilty about it!!!! I

constantly long for the day when I can go true NC with her.... but

then my heart tells me I am a bad person for wanting this. Even

through all the shit she puts us through. How do you guys deal with

this? What makes matters worse, is that she constantly does things

for me " because she loves me " and " she wants her daughter to have

everything she needs " money, buys things, etc.... but I have long

since figured out that these good things do not come without

consequences, 'I owe her " " Look at all I have done for you " " I made

sacrafices for you " on and on. And every new argument drudges all

these things up from past present and future!!!!I can see through

it all, I know what shes doing, shes playing martyr, I do know this.

But I still cannot escape this guilt inside. (even though , in all

actuality, the anger shows much more than the guilt, to nada anyway)

Help!!!!!

[Guest guest]

>Anyway, I completely cannot stand to look at her or be around her

> anymore, and I certainly cant stand to hear anything that comes out

> of her mouth. Its progressively gotten to this point, where I have

> had enough of her, and I basically look at her as a big joke , and I

> dont even take her seriously anymore. But, she argues constantly,

> and all the other stuff bpd's do. But I feel guilt to have these

> feelings. She is my mother.....

I have gone through all the back and forth reasoning that you state

here. It is hard to erase the guilt. But how many people do you know

who feel obligated to live with their mother, bpd or not? This is

not a normal or a healthy situation for anyone. It is especially

unfair and unhealthy for you, your children and your husband. We

become the great enablers when we let our mother's dictate what we

have to put up with. The rage and anger will only grow now that you

see her for what she is. It will destroy you and ruin your happiness

if you don't do something about it.

I have finally reached a point, after many months of learning to

believe that I have the right to be me, where the guilt is practically

nonexistant. The annoyance and anger will probably never completely

go away. And even though this is a mental illness, my mother can

behave better and does so now that I require it. If it were me I

would have to get out of there. There is nothing money can buy that

will make up for the damage being done by this unhealthy relationship.

Just my opinion. Dee

[Guest guest]

Hi Nurse,

You and I were trained to provide unconditional compassion, nurturing and

support; both in our professions ... and as a child of a BPD. I teach; and as

the only member of my foo to go to college I share your frustration at being

singled out as the 'ignorant, book-learned one' who 'lost the faith' likely

DUE to being educated. That is how my parents think; as well as my siblings

who didn't finish HS.

I'm also Catholic, an accident of biology I'm convinced; yet, it seems to me

the worst abomination of the faith that my nada swears at me that I am 'going

to hell' because I fail to 'honor' her.

There really is no defense for not 'honoring father and mother'; unless you

read on. (they always excerpt only the single line of scripture that serves

their purpose - to scream at us ... and ignore the context in which it is

written)

The commandment to honor our parents demands that our parents be honorable.

And that begins at an early age; not applicable after decades of abuses of

every imaginable kind, when the parent is looking squarely at death.

This is my situation: I have been 'no contact' for several years with my

parents and siblings. My adult children have thanked me for keeping physical

distance between them and their 'crazy' grandparents, aunt and uncles. The

rare occasions (funerals, weddings) that they do come in contact with my foo

they witness the 'drama queen' type scenes first hand.

My son's shock, disbelief, and total befuddlement at their disorganized

thinking is my reward, my solace. There is no guilt in having raised healthy,

well adjusted children; kids who have never had to learn to negotiate

relationships with dysfunctional people. CarolC.

In a message dated 2/2/2006 9:23:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,

nurse_not_today@... writes:

I know this is nothign new here... for any of us, but I have guilt.

Alot of it. I have a nada, we live together, to make things worse.

(some of you may remember the story).

Anyway, I completely cannot stand to look at her or be around her

anymore, and I certainly cant stand to hear anything that comes out

of her mouth. Its progressively gotten to this point, where I have

had enough of her, and I basically look at her as a big joke , and I

dont even take her seriously anymore. But, she argues constantly,

and all the other stuff bpd's do. But I feel guilt to have these

feelings. She is my mother..... I was raised catholic....this isnt

supposed to happen in my family. Your an animal if you dont want to

talk to your mother, no matter what.(they believe) But, on the other

hand, I am also educated, unlike most of the people in my family,

including nada, and I know that her behavior to me and my kids is

emotionally destructive. And, since I am a nurse, I know that this

bpd is an actual mental illness, so the other side of me thinks I

should be more tolerant and be more supportive of her , as if she

had any other disease. But I cant!!!! She makes me feel so... damn

enraged!!!!! And I hate that, and I feel guilty about it!!!! I

constantly long for the day when I can go true NC with her.... but

then my heart tells me I am a bad person for wanting this. Even

through all the shit she puts us through. How do you guys deal with

this? What makes matters worse, is that she constantly does things

for me " because she loves me " and " she wants her daughter to have

everything she needs " money, buys things, etc.... but I have long

since figured out that these good things do not come without

consequences, 'I owe her " " Look at all I have done for you " " I made

sacrafices for you " on and on. And every new argument drudges all

these things up from past present and future!!!!I can see through

it all, I know what shes doing, shes playing martyr, I do know this.

But I still cannot escape this guilt inside. (even though , in all

actuality, the anger shows much more than the guilt, to nada anyway)

Help!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Guilt is usually synonymous with what we feel when we think we have

done something " wrong. " But is it wrong to get away from someone who

is abusive? If you had an abusive spouse and wanted to get away,

society would support you, even shelter you, help protect you. And

people would say " you did the right thing " NOT " you should really

feel guilty for leaving that person. "

(Note: The rest of this rant involves some discussion of religion so

if you don't care for that, you can simply stop reading.)

So what is the difference whether it is an abusive spouse or abusive

parent? One BIG difference; we have been conditioned, in some

religions, commanded, to believe that we must honor our parents, no

matter what! Talk about black and white thinking!

And it doesn't seem to matter if our parents honor and respect us.

Sounds like an opportunity for some sick parent to abuse children

and then use religion to make them feel obligated to take it. For

many bp's it is a weapon that they use against their children and

unfortunately, too often, they have society/church on their side.

I find this to be another example of " doesn't have to make sense-

just shut up go along with it- black and white thinking. " Okay, to

be fair, I am sure it makes sense for some people whose parents

loved and honored them. I am sure it comes naturally and they don't

need to be commanded to feel that way. I don't know if one can be

commanded to love and honor anyway, those feelings must come from

the heart, naturally. One can be commanded to pretend to honor while

harboring massive amounts of resentment and anger….well maybe that's

good enough.

Many of us don't even question these " moral laws " because we were

told they were true, period, end of discussion.

So lets see….we are " commanded " by God to honor our parents.

Okay, well, lets assume for a moment that I believe that. What does

honoring another person mean to me? It means connecting with my

highest self and living from that place as much as possible, because

when I am connected with the love within myself, I automatically

love others more easily.

It also means not letting other people interfere with that because

if they interfere with and/or prevent my connection to my inner

goodness then they are a negative force meant to do harm to me and

disconnect me from my inner goodness, which some would call God,

and that must most certainly go against what a loving God would want

for me. I don't think God would command meto be around someone who

destroys my soul. Talk about sacrilegious!

Honoring another also means not enabling them in their destructive

behaviors. So I think leaving an abusive person IS honoring them,

actually. It is giving them the opportunity to work on them selves,

because as long as they are just acting out on me, they have no

incentive nor opportunity to get better. Now, abusive, manipulative

people with their own agenda may have us believe that honoring

means " staying no matter what " but that is not honoring, that is

enabling. And at that point I am not only sacrificing MY life, but

also contributing to their destructiveness.

That is a LOSE- LOSE scenario and I ask you: What is the good of

that and what purpose does it serve?

None as far as I can see, except maybe at the end of your life you

can say " I stayed with someone who was really, really mean to me,

but by GOD, I did it! "

>

> I know this is nothign new here... for any of us, but I have

guilt.

> Alot of it. I have a nada, we live together, to make things worse.

> (some of you may remember the story).

> Anyway, I completely cannot stand to look at her or be around her

> anymore, and I certainly cant stand to hear anything that comes

out

> of her mouth. Its progressively gotten to this point, where I have

> had enough of her, and I basically look at her as a big joke , and

I

> dont even take her seriously anymore. But, she argues constantly,

> and all the other stuff bpd's do. But I feel guilt to have these

> feelings. She is my mother..... I was raised catholic....this isnt

> supposed to happen in my family. Your an animal if you dont want

to

> talk to your mother, no matter what.(they believe) But, on the

other

> hand, I am also educated, unlike most of the people in my family,

> including nada, and I know that her behavior to me and my kids is

> emotionally destructive. And, since I am a nurse, I know that this

> bpd is an actual mental illness, so the other side of me thinks I

> should be more tolerant and be more supportive of her , as if she

> had any other disease. But I cant!!!! She makes me feel so... damn

> enraged!!!!! And I hate that, and I feel guilty about it!!!! I

> constantly long for the day when I can go true NC with her.... but

> then my heart tells me I am a bad person for wanting this. Even

> through all the shit she puts us through. How do you guys deal

with

> this? What makes matters worse, is that she constantly does things

> for me " because she loves me " and " she wants her daughter to have

> everything she needs " money, buys things, etc.... but I have long

> since figured out that these good things do not come without

> consequences, 'I owe her " " Look at all I have done for you " " I

made

> sacrafices for you " on and on. And every new argument drudges all

> these things up from past present and future!!!!I can see through

> it all, I know what shes doing, shes playing martyr, I do know

this.

> But I still cannot escape this guilt inside. (even though , in all

> actuality, the anger shows much more than the guilt, to nada

anyway)

> Help!!!!!

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> Guilt is usually synonymous with what we feel when we think we have

> done something " wrong. " But is it wrong to get away from someone who

> is abusive? If you had an abusive spouse and wanted to get away,

> society would support you, even shelter you, help protect you. And

> people would say " you did the right thing " NOT " you should really

> feel guilty for leaving that person. "

>

>> Honoring another also means not enabling them in their destructive

> behaviors. So I think leaving an abusive person IS honoring them,

> actually.

Hi cre8within:

I wholeheartedly agree with your above observations. I just have 2

points I'd like to make.

1. On honoring our parents. I feel that the only way right now I can

honor my mother is to stay away from her. I don't like the person I

become when I'm around her. I become extremely defensive and she

states that I treat her in a very " business like " manner which totally

offends her. I happen to be very proud of myself if I can maintain

a " business like " composure when I'm around her. In reality I would

like to just pick her up and " shake " some sense into her (she's very

petite). If my not yelling, swearing, fighting, etc. is not good

enough behaviour for her, then I simply cannot " honor " her request.

Right now I simply have too much anger to give anything more

than " business like " .

2. I feel guilty. I also feel angry. Right now my anger outweighs my

guilt...so I stay away. The issue I face however is if by being an

only child and staying away from an elderly parent who is all alone,

am I now committing (I think its called) " Elder Abuse " . At this

point, she's still in relatively good health but I do not check up on

her....right now I'm in no contact with her. My oldest son (17) calls

her weekly out of a sense of obligation to her. I have never tried to

totally stop all contact between her and my 2 sons. Although they

don't think she's a nice person, they can still manage short phone

exchanges....although I notice they tell her NOTHING about what is

going on in their own lifes.

My nada has told me that she has made arrangements for her care and

that I won't even know she's dead until weeks later. I'm actually

alright with that...if she has actually made arrangements for

herself. Although I am in NC with her, I did make a brief call to her

to find out who I should contact on her behalf if someone should

accidently call me if she should be ill. She informed me that she had

LIED to me about everything...that she has no one and is all alone,

etc. I told her that I was simply calling for information and that

when she decided whom she wanted to handle her affairs, to please let

me know. I would be OK with anyone she chose. I also told her that I

would do what I had to do in an emergency, but other than that I was

still happy with the relationship we currently had (ie no

relationship).

My husband has offered to do what we can to help her and on several

occasions has actually stopped what he was doing to go over for some

really stupid reason (like she couldn't get her new portible phone to

work and if someone didn't come right away....she would sell her condo

and move). Anyway, now for whatever reason...she's totally against my

husband....go figure.

The other week, she introduced a woman about my age to my husband and

children whom I think she's " trying out " as a substitute daughter.

The woman informed my husband, that she would be there for my mother

if she needs anything.....Good for her!

In reading up on " Elder Abuse " it looks like some of the signs are not

checking in on the elderly person, and making the elderly person feel

that you are only doing what you have to do because you have to. I

have committed both of these.

My question therefore is, how does an only child go NC and not

automatically be commiting " Elder Abuse " by default?

[Guest guest]

Nurse, I remember feeling that way for a period of about 2 years. Just

angry--so angry

but also guilty and freaked out because I thought I was some kind of monster for

1. being

that angry and 2. being that angry at my own mother.

But here are some ideas that have helped me.

1. asking to be treated differently--even if it's in an angry tone--it helps

diffuse some of

the anger because you actually address the problem.

2. When you ask for different treatment and/or express anger in a controlled

way you are

not hurting the person, you may be helping that person. For example, when I let

my nada

get away with everything I hated her imensley and couldn't even stand to look at

her.

Since I have stood up for myself and she's started to treat me better, I feel

like being

around her again, our relationship is restored. That's good for her too.

3. When someone treats you badly, anger is the normal and healthy reaction. If

you didn't

feel angry, you'd need to worry about your sense of self-preservation.

Anyway, good luck. I remember being there and I could go back if I were

routinely

mistreated again and felt I couldn't say anything for some reason. But there

are many

improvements possible.

--T

>

> I know this is nothign new here... for any of us, but I have guilt.

> Alot of it. I have a nada, we live together, to make things worse.

> (some of you may remember the story).

> Anyway, I completely cannot stand to look at her or be around her

> anymore, and I certainly cant stand to hear anything that comes out

> of her mouth. Its progressively gotten to this point, where I have

> had enough of her, and I basically look at her as a big joke , and I

> dont even take her seriously anymore. But, she argues constantly,

> and all the other stuff bpd's do. But I feel guilt to have these

> feelings. She is my mother..... I was raised catholic....this isnt

> supposed to happen in my family. Your an animal if you dont want to

> talk to your mother, no matter what.(they believe) But, on the other

> hand, I am also educated, unlike most of the people in my family,

> including nada, and I know that her behavior to me and my kids is

> emotionally destructive. And, since I am a nurse, I know that this

> bpd is an actual mental illness, so the other side of me thinks I

> should be more tolerant and be more supportive of her , as if she

> had any other disease. But I cant!!!! She makes me feel so... damn

> enraged!!!!! And I hate that, and I feel guilty about it!!!! I

> constantly long for the day when I can go true NC with her.... but

> then my heart tells me I am a bad person for wanting this. Even

> through all the shit she puts us through. How do you guys deal with

> this? What makes matters worse, is that she constantly does things

> for me " because she loves me " and " she wants her daughter to have

> everything she needs " money, buys things, etc.... but I have long

> since figured out that these good things do not come without

> consequences, 'I owe her " " Look at all I have done for you " " I made

> sacrafices for you " on and on. And every new argument drudges all

> these things up from past present and future!!!!I can see through

> it all, I know what shes doing, shes playing martyr, I do know this.

> But I still cannot escape this guilt inside. (even though , in all

> actuality, the anger shows much more than the guilt, to nada anyway)

> Help!!!!!

>