Re: hot flashes/flushes and recent insom...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 21/06/2006 18:04:40 GMT Daylight Time, imgeha@...

writes:

Mo

go careful with supplementing progesterone if a)you have weak adrenals

and you already have high progesterone levels. I did this and had a

TOTAL nightmare - see my previous posts.

I also have hot flashes at the tender age of 39 (40 in 2 weeks time!)

and believe they are due to low cortisol and hypoglycemia. If you are

tapering down on pred this may be what it is.

Hiya

Thanks for that. Yes I think you are right. There is every reason to be

cautious with this.

I was surprised to see that my progesterone was higher than my oestrogen

when tested.

Then the doc said today that I should have little or no oestrogen in my fat

cells or anywhere else very much. So I doubt it is to do with sex hormones.

And you, poor thing, have all this going on at 39. I sympathise.

Are you on full adrenal replacement?

I would love to understand how lowering the Pred. affects everything.

Mo

NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 21/06/2006 18:54:26 GMT Daylight Time,

artisticgroomer@... writes:

I will add one thing.. If you are going to let a doctor adjust your

thyroid by TSH, you WILL be sicker. Guaranteed.

Oh no, no, no ! Absolutely not. I did not mean to give that

impression, lol

I would not let them anywhere near me!!!!!

The doc said, not my usual doc so umfamiliar, have you had your thyroid

tested and I said yes but you guys tell me there is no problem and then I saw a

private doctor who said I did have a problem.

End of conversation. I was about to launch into the idiocy of the TSH and

then thought I would not waste my very, very, very limited energy on this guy.

The thing is, might he have a point about the flushes and insomnia when he

said I might, long shot he felt, but just might be hyperthyroid? This amde me

wonder if I should be thinking or lowering my Armour.

What do you think Val?

NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 21/06/2006 18:50:48 GMT Daylight Time, imgeha@...

writes:

In the first half of my

cycle I am fine. Apparently progesterone opposes cortisol - makes it

less effective - and I think this must be why I can't get by with the

20-25 mg that others can. Either that or I've got s (she said

flippantly). I take 35 mg of cortisol (Pred and HC combined)a day,

plus Florinef, still have adrenal symptoms on that lot, and am having

problems raising my Armour.

You still have high progesterone levels then? How long might they take to

wane I wonder?

Would it be silly to take oestrogen to balance it? I may be talking complete

rubbish here so pse bear with me. So you need to lower your progesterone so

that your cortisol will not be opposed? How will you do this as it sounds

lije this is the keystone upon which depends getting your adrenals sorted and

thence your thyroid.

At your age, precisely, I had a similar situation going on that I could not

understand. I had bad PMS and then it started to be the case that the bad PMS

started mid-cycle and was not relieved until my period started. It felt like

someone stuck a pin in a balloon, such was the sense of tension being

released. I knew of self-help then. My cortisol must have been low and the

reason

for this the same as yours. Thank you so much for giving me this info as it has

been bugging me for years, not understanding what was going on. I HATE

mysteries!

NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

[Guest guest]

I will add one thing.. If you are going to let a doctor adjust your

thyroid by TSH, you WILL be sicker. Guaranteed.

--

Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

The BEST thyroid website! http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> In a message dated 21/06/2006 18:04:40 GMT Daylight Time,

imgeha@...

> writes:

>

>

> Yes. Absolutely full replacement, and I think the high progesterone

levels may be the reason why I seem to need so much cortisol,

certainly in the second half of my cycle. Read this.

http://www.yourmenopausetype.com/steroidpathway/actions_of_progesteron

e.html

My hypoglycemia / insulin resistance gets much worse around day 18,

and stays that way until my period arrives. In the first half of my

cycle I am fine. Apparently progesterone opposes cortisol - makes it

less effective - and I think this must be why I can't get by with the

20-25 mg that others can. Either that or I've got s (she said

flippantly). I take 35 mg of cortisol (Pred and HC combined)a day,

plus Florinef, still have adrenal symptoms on that lot, and am having

problems raising my Armour.

>

> Nicola

>

> Hiya

> Thanks for that. Yes I think you are right. There is every reason

to be

> cautious with this.

> I was surprised to see that my progesterone was higher than my

oestrogen

> when tested.

> Then the doc said today that I should have little or no oestrogen

in my fat

> cells or anywhere else very much. So I doubt it is to do with sex

hormones.

> And you, poor thing, have all this going on at 39. I sympathise.

> Are you on full adrenal replacement?

> I would love to understand how lowering the Pred. affects

everything.

>

> Mo

>

> NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>Would it be silly to take oestrogen to balance it? I may be talking complete

rubbish here so pse bear with me. So you need to lower your progesterone so

that your cortisol will not be opposed?<<

this is not rubish! Some women need estrogen even LONG past meno. I still need

it once in a while, and hav no idea why, but I know when I need it from leaking

urine . It is a sure sign and I use a bad of Oestrogel for abotu 3-5 days and

that is it for months! Just enough that I always keep the stuff for just those

times when I need it.Now doctors (way back when I was going) used to tell me

this is in my head.. But my wet pants were certainly not! And dry ones after

building my levels up a bit also were not in my head..

--

Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

The BEST thyroid website! http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 22/06/2006 00:50:32 GMT Daylight Time,

artisticgroomer@... writes:

months! Just enough that I always keep the stuff for just those times when I

need it.Now doctors (way back when I was going) used to tell me this is in

my head.. But my wet pants were certainly not! And dry ones after building my

levels up a bit also were not in my head..

Oh Val, I have wet pants every day........ and it is such a nuisance and so

embarrassing. I thank God that I am a single woman, lol

NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

[Guest guest]

>

>

After last night, I am seriously thinking of supplementing oestrogen

to try balancing this out. I ovulated yesterday - my temps went

right up, I felt foggy and headachy all day. In the evening after my

meal I felt hungry after 2 hours - insulin resistance, and I have

been awake from 3.30am with low blood sugar. No matter what I eat,

or take HC, I cannot get my blood sugar up because of insulin

resistance due to high progesterone. Low blood sugar = insommnia!!!

and there's nothing I can do about it...

So next month I will use the oestrogel and see what that does.

Nicola

> >

>

> You still have high progesterone levels then? How long might they

take to

> wane I wonder?

> Would it be silly to take oestrogen to balance it? I may be

talking complete

> rubbish here so pse bear with me. So you need to lower your

progesterone so

> that your cortisol will not be opposed? How will you do this as it

sounds

> lije this is the keystone upon which depends getting your adrenals

sorted and

> thence your thyroid.

> At your age, precisely, I had a similar situation going on that I

could not

> understand. I had bad PMS and then it started to be the case that

the bad PMS

> started mid-cycle and was not relieved until my period started. It

felt like

> someone stuck a pin in a balloon, such was the sense of tension

being

> released. I knew of self-help then. My cortisol must have been low

and the reason

> for this the same as yours. Thank you so much for giving me this

info as it has

> been bugging me for years, not understanding what was going on. I

HATE

> mysteries!

>

> NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 22/06/2006 14:38:12 GMT Daylight Time, imgeha@...

writes:

Hi Nicola

Your response last night has given me have a bit of a lightbulb

moment. Maybe the reasons why my adrenals seem so weak and I need so

much adrenal support is because of my high progesterone levels !?!!

I thought you got to realising this before me?

The last test I had showed them right at the top of the range one

week before my period was due, but maybe they are also high

throughout the rest of the month.

Is there an optimoum time to do the test? With me, it did not matter because

I am post-menopausal.

But I have had this forever -

since I was a teenager - long, irregular menstrual cycle, and I have

always had the odd stray hair (I won't say whisker - too

unattractive) growing on my neck.

Testosterone?

So maybe if I do supplement with

oestrogen in the first half of my cycle, I might balance it out a

bit, give my adrenals a bit of a break, and raise my Armour.

Kerching!! What do you reckon?!

WE'll try it together kid! And I hope it works.

Can you tell me where I could get more info on high progesterone? I fully

expected that when I got these lab results back, that they would show oestrogen

dominance. Nope. And no-one commented on the fact that the progesterone was

very high. Hmmmmmmmm.

Mo

NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

[Guest guest]

I would deeply appreciate it if someone could direct me to articles where I may

read about the estrogen/urinary problems?

I thought my " stress incontinence " was because of having children and aging, but

perhaps it isn't? I never knew there was this connection until hearing about it

on this and the Thyroid group.

Thank you so much!

best,

Adria

Green Mountain Curlies, Inc.~~~http://greenmountaincurlies.official.ws/

GMC Blog~~~http://greenmountaincurlies.blogspot.com

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

In a message dated 22/06/2006 00:50:32 GMT Daylight Time,

artisticgroomer@... writes:

months! Just enough that I always keep the stuff for just those times when I

need it.Now doctors (way back when I was going) used to tell me this is in

my head.. But my wet pants were certainly not! And dry ones after building my

levels up a bit also were not in my head..

Oh Val, I have wet pants every day........ and it is such a nuisance and so

embarrassing. I thank God that I am a single woman, lol

NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

[Guest guest]

>>Am I in a category also where I need to use oestrogen to balance the

progresterone?

And if I started oestrogen, would I need to take it forever? And is it

dangerous<<

With the labs and your symptoms of low E I would try it. It ois a gel and it is

bioidentical, not like Premarin which could be dangerous. but i have to tell you

it is potent! You can tell immediately if oyu are using too much by tender

boobs. Then just back off and your levels drop within 2 days.It comes wiht a

measure for the amount of gel to use, but i find I need about 1/4 of that as I

am past meno. No you do not need to take it forever. I think weak adrenals is

probably the reason some of us need to supplement it at all after meno as the

adrenals are what take over making sex hormones when the ovaries stop or are

removed, and if the adrenals are weak anyway, why would they not be making

enough of this too?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Mo

Your response last night has given me have a bit of a lightbulb

moment. Maybe the reasons why my adrenals seem so weak and I need so

much adrenal support is because of my high progesterone levels !?!!

The last test I had showed them right at the top of the range one

week before my period was due, but maybe they are also high

throughout the rest of the month. But I have had this forever -

since I was a teenager - long, irregular menstrual cycle, and I have

always had the odd stray hair (I won't say whisker - too

unattractive) growing on my neck. So maybe if I do supplement with

oestrogen in the first half of my cycle, I might balance it out a

bit, give my adrenals a bit of a break, and raise my Armour.

Kerching!! What do you reckon?!

Nicola

-- In NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS , NOVAexeter@...

wrote:

>

> In a message dated 22/06/2006 13:41:27 GMT Daylight Time,

> artisticgroomer@... writes:

>

> Thanks for that link Val, urinary incontinence.

> I don't fancy 3-6 months of pelvic floor exercises and that's for

sure.

> So the oestrogen. Maybe I should take you up on your offer. Did you

see my

> reults for sex hormones I posted earlier. Progesterone very high

relative to

> oestrogen. Don;t kow what this means as I did not take it to any

doctor etc.

> Am I in a category also where I need to use oestrogen to balance

the

> progresterone?

> And if I started oestrogen, would I need to take it forever? And is

it

> dangerous?

>

> NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 22/06/2006 18:26:38 GMT Daylight Time, imgeha@...

writes:

Hi Nicola

Sort of, but had only made the connection for the last two weeks of

my cycle, when my adrenal symptoms get totally out of hand. This

could now explain why I have been nervy and stressy for the best part

of my life, no?

Have you had an adrenal saliva done? If not, I think it might be important

to establish what your levels are so you know what you are dealing with here?

> Testosterone? - Sorry, not a flicker of this in my body. Nil

libido...

Again, have you been tested for this? There are others reasons for lack of

libido.

I'm definitely going to give it a go - but we might increase our

chance of breast cancer

Again, again, get tested first might be the way to go. As Val said, this is

a powerful hormone.

I have googled on high progesterone, and how to lower it, with little

success. The only thing I came up with is that progesterone gets

broken down by the liver, and this may not be happening properly in

those with high progesterone.

Aha! I have hepatitis C!!!!!!! Good googling.

Generally progesterone is the good

guy, oestrogen bad, just in our case it gives our adrenals a hard

time, hence our need for high doses of cortisol. I will be very

surprised if I have any adrenal function left after all this.

Testing, testing, testing is what I think you need to do.

How is the pred taper going?

Well Ok I think but then I don't know if this is actually causing the

insomnia. So hard to tell. Next thing to do in this respect is go from 5 mg to

2.5

Pred and up the h/c.

Mo

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[Guest guest]

Yup, another good night (not) But I'm determined to get to the

bottom of it. I must be one of a few hypothyroid women who isn't

oestrogen dominant. I'll email tomorrow. Been tearing around today.

Nicola

> > >

> > >

> > After last night, I am seriously thinking of supplementing

oestrogen

> > to try balancing this out. I ovulated yesterday - my temps went

> > right up, I felt foggy and headachy all day. In the evening

after my

> > meal I felt hungry after 2 hours - insulin resistance, and I have

> > been awake from 3.30am with low blood sugar. No matter what I

eat,

> > or take HC, I cannot get my blood sugar up because of insulin

> > resistance due to high progesterone. Low blood sugar =

insommnia!!!

> > and there's nothing I can do about it...

> >

> > So next month I will use the oestrogel and see what that does.

> >

> > Nicola

> >

> > > >

> > >

> > > You still have high progesterone levels then? How long might

they

> > take to

> > > wane I wonder?

> > > Would it be silly to take oestrogen to balance it? I may be

> > talking complete

> > > rubbish here so pse bear with me. So you need to lower your

> > progesterone so

> > > that your cortisol will not be opposed? How will you do this

as it

> > sounds

> > > lije this is the keystone upon which depends getting your

adrenals

> > sorted and

> > > thence your thyroid.

> > > At your age, precisely, I had a similar situation going on that

I

> > could not

> > > understand. I had bad PMS and then it started to be the case

that

> > the bad PMS

> > > started mid-cycle and was not relieved until my period started.

It

> > felt like

> > > someone stuck a pin in a balloon, such was the sense of tension

> > being

> > > released. I knew of self-help then. My cortisol must have been

low

> > and the reason

> > > for this the same as yours. Thank you so much for giving me

this

> > info as it has

> > > been bugging me for years, not understanding what was going

on. I

> > HATE

> > > mysteries!

> > >

> > > NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/22/2006 10:23:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

imgeha@... writes:

> Yup, another good night (not) But I'm determined to get to the

> bottom of it. I must be one of a few hypothyroid women who isn't

> oestrogen dominant. I'll email tomorrow. Been tearing around today.

>

Nicola,

Your certainly not the only one. I have way too much progesterone

relative to estrogen, too. And i bet if women didn't just assume that

their various symptoms are all due to " estrogen dominance " because

they've hear the term thrown around so much (almost always by

people who have a vested interested in selling progesterone creams

and gels) and actually got properly tested. .. that it would be clear that

there are many more with low estrogen/high p. ratios than is realized.

The bottom line is that you've got to find out what YOUR levels/ratios

are before you can take the appropriate action. To me, it's just common

sense. If p. levels are too low, then fine, use p. creams. But if it's the

other way around, nasty things can happen -- as you well know.

Hollis

[Guest guest]

>

> In a message dated 22/06/2006 14:38:12 GMT Daylight Time,

imgeha@...

> writes:

>

> Hi Nicola

>

> Your response last night has given me have a bit of a lightbulb

> moment. Maybe the reasons why my adrenals seem so weak and I need

so

> much adrenal support is because of my high progesterone

levels !?!!

> I thought you got to realising this before me?

Sort of, but had only made the connection for the last two weeks of

my cycle, when my adrenal symptoms get totally out of hand. This

could now explain why I have been nervy and stressy for the best part

of my life, no?

>

>

> But I have had this forever - > since I was a teenager - long,

irregular menstrual cycle, and I have always had the odd stray hair

(I won't say whisker - too unattractive) growing on my neck.

> Testosterone? - Sorry, not a flicker of this in my body. Nil

libido...

>

> So maybe if I do supplement with > oestrogen in the first half of

my cycle, I might balance it out a bit, give my adrenals a bit of a

break, and raise my Armour. Kerching!! What do you reckon?!

> WE'll try it together kid! And I hope it works.

I'm definitely going to give it a go - but we might increase our

chance of breast cancer?

> Can you tell me where I could get more info on high progesterone? I

fully

> expected that when I got these lab results back, that they would

show oestrogen

> dominance. Nope. And no-one commented on the fact that the

progesterone was

> very high. Hmmmmmmmm.

I have googled on high progesterone, and how to lower it, with little

success. The only thing I came up with is that progesterone gets

broken down by the liver, and this may not be happening properly in

those with high progesterone. Generally progesterone is the good

guy, oestrogen bad, just in our case it gives our adrenals a hard

time, hence our need for high doses of cortisol. I will be very

surprised if I have any adrenal function left after all this.

How is the pred taper going?

>

> Nicola

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are certainly NOT the only one! Here are my CC labs last year!

Estradiol HIGH 44 postmeno target range 5-13

Progesterone HIGH >1000 Target range 100-300

Testosterone Elevated Target range 8-20

Of course, on good advice I was using P cream! That was when I stopped ALL sex

hormone replacement and have only had to do a couple dabs of Oestrogel since.

--

Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

The BEST thyroid website! http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 23/06/2006 13:28:15 GMT Daylight Time, ZOEA@...

writes:

Me too! When my levels were checked 2-1/2 years ago, my progesterone was

>1000 (which is as high as they can measure). I had used the cream for just 6

months several years before, and otherwise had supplemented with small doses of

oral progesterone (bio-identical, natural). My estrogens all measured in the

normal range, with testosterone a tad high.

I used prog. cream for three months during the menopause, having just read

Lee's book.

I was most upset that it did not help and confused because I thought

oestrogen dominance was the problem. I was probably adding fuel to the fire

instead.

Mo

NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

[Guest guest]

Me too! When my levels were checked 2-1/2 years ago, my progesterone was >1000

(which is as high as they can measure). I had used the cream for just 6 months

several years before, and otherwise had supplemented with small doses of oral

progesterone (bio-identical, natural). My estrogens all measured in the normal

range, with testosterone a tad high.

It took two years after stopping all progesterone for it to reduce to measurable

levels -- and lots of intense hot flashes!!! My ND says that hot flashes are

due to the reducing of hormone levels in general, not just estrogen.

Zoe

Re: Re: hot flashes/flushes and

recent insom...

You are certainly NOT the only one! Here are my CC labs last year!

Estradiol HIGH 44 postmeno target range 5-13

Progesterone HIGH >1000 Target range 100-300

Testosterone Elevated Target range 8-20

Of course, on good advice I was using P cream! That was when I stopped ALL sex

hormone replacement and have only had to do a couple dabs of Oestrogel since.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/22/2006 1:21:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

imgeha@... writes:

> Generally progesterone is the good

> guy, oestrogen bad, just in our case it gives our adrenals a hard

> time, hence our need for high doses of cortisol.

I would respectfully disagree. Neither estrogen or progesterone is

inherently " good " or " bad. " Where the problem lies in with either

of them, separately or in their ratio to each other, being out of

balance. I think that it's very unfortunate that there's such a

strong prevailing idea that estrogen is always " bad " and the

cause of all our gynecological woes. This is simply not the

case -- it's EXTREMELY important in so many ways for good

health. But there are a lot of people selling progesterone, directly

or indirectly, who would like you to believe otherwise.

Hollis