Re: Preparing for Kids--ideas?

January 25, 2006

Well, I am the wrong one to ask in terms of what I did to PREPARE, but I can

give you the what I did UNPREPARED version. I was pregnant less than a

month after I turned 20, unexpected, out of wedlock, no caring father

involved, all that jazz. Not to mention I was in the midst of a very severe

depression that had been going on since about age 15. I had an actual

suicide attempt just 3 months before my dd was conceived. Good thing it was

not while I was pregnant b/c she may not have survived it (overdose). I

was going to give my daughter up for adoption b/c I was way too depressed to

even take care of myself, but my nada talked me into keeping her b/c she

figured she could be the child's mother if I could not. Of course this is

way before I knew there was something way too weird about my nada. But a

few months after the baby was born, about 4 or 5 months, due to hormone

changes, the severe depression lifted and never came back, and it's not b/c

I was happy about having a baby b/c I was not exactly what you would call

happy about it - scared and anxious. I had never really babysat before, did

not know anything about babies, really. But really the child shows you how

all along the way. When she was 3 she let me know she really wanted me to

live at home instead of at the college dorm. I just tried to do what I

could to be with her and play with her and read books and all. I did not

even really have much clue on how to discipline, but I did the best I could

figure. Now she is 15 and even after living 13 years with my nada, she has

some anxiety or post-traumatic problems still I think, but she is overall a

good person. She is kind of people phobic like I was, but she is a good

kid.

I just had to go with the flow, from looking at a little baby lying on the

couch b/c I was home alone and too scared to leave her somewhere else where

I could not see her (plus did not have a baby bed yet) and onward, but the

child will let you know all that pretty much. It's great to have previous

experience, but not necessary.

So, that's the unprepared version for having a child. Let me know if there

is anything else you want to know!

Theresa

>

> Hi everyone. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, as I know there's been

> lots of posting on

> this subject, but it's one of great concern for me. For most of my life

> I've never even

> wanted to have kids. I think this is partly because my nada really gave

> me the impression

> that she became the way she was when she had kids--and I don't want to

> become like her.

> It's also partly because I've always thought I just wouldn't be good at

> it, maybe because of

> lots of bad examples.

>

> I've been thinking differently lately, however. It's probably the result

> of going to therapy

> and realizing that I'll never be like my mother and that maybe I could be

> an ok parent after

> all. I'll definitely be working through some more things and I've read a

> lot of posts on how

> some of you tackle parenting already.

>

> What I'd like to kow is what changes those of you who have kids or

> consider having kids

> have made in your lives or yourselves in order to sort of prepare. I feel

> at a loss for a

> good place to start because not only was I not in a normal family growing

> up, but also was

> kept pretty sheltered from any other normal families growing up.

>

> I've learned a lot already about how I'd prefer to live, but I guess one

> thing I've learned is

> that you sometimes just don't realize what you don't know! So, what do

> you all know? Is

> there anything that you suddenly realized you needed to learn fast when

> you became a

> parent?

>

> Trish

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

> @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond

> ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

> () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

> Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

> find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

> and the SWOE Workbook.

>

January 26, 2006

Thanks Theresa,

I can appreciate that you don't really need to " prepare " for kids--

after all, people have perfectly good results w/o doing so. I must

say though, that I haven't got a lot of faith in my own instincts.

But I'm going to remember what you said when I have kids. I mean--

there's got to be some room for " live and learn " with kids!

Trish

> >

> > Hi everyone. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, as I know

there's been

> > lots of posting on

> > this subject, but it's one of great concern for me. For most of

my life

> > I've never even

> > wanted to have kids. I think this is partly because my nada

really gave

> > me the impression

> > that she became the way she was when she had kids--and I don't

want to

> > become like her.

> > It's also partly because I've always thought I just wouldn't be

good at

> > it, maybe because of

> > lots of bad examples.

> >

> > I've been thinking differently lately, however. It's probably

the result

> > of going to therapy

> > and realizing that I'll never be like my mother and that maybe I

could be

> > an ok parent after

> > all. I'll definitely be working through some more things and

I've read a

> > lot of posts on how

> > some of you tackle parenting already.

> >

> > What I'd like to kow is what changes those of you who have kids

or

> > consider having kids

> > have made in your lives or yourselves in order to sort of

prepare. I feel

> > at a loss for a

> > good place to start because not only was I not in a normal

family growing

> > up, but also was

> > kept pretty sheltered from any other normal families growing up.

> >

> > I've learned a lot already about how I'd prefer to live, but I

guess one

> > thing I've learned is

> > that you sometimes just don't realize what you don't know! So,

what do

> > you all know? Is

> > there anything that you suddenly realized you needed to learn

fast when

> > you became a

> > parent?

> >

> > Trish

> >

> > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

> > @B... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond

> > ON THE GROUP.

> >

> > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-

SHELL

> > () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding

the Borderline

> > Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth)

which you can

> > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> >

> > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and

author SWOE

> > and the SWOE Workbook.

> >

January 28, 2006

Trish,

These are good questions and the fact you're thinking about them says

that you have an awareness that nadas just simply do not have nor

care to have. I've read most of the responses and really like them. I

especially like the fact that someone suggested drawing up a last

Will and Testament (I think it was Flea?) so that your wishes for

custody in the event something should happen to you be respected.

Dh's oldest sister is listed on our Will as legal guardian (Wills are

cheap enough too- only $200 w/a lawyer and maybe $25 w/o one). She's

a psychiatrist and the first one to ever mention the term Borderline

Personality Disorder to me when I described nada's behavior. She can

more than hold her own w/my family and protect our kids- better than

most anyone I've ever met. Though we'd never want our kids left alone

w/nada. Plain and simple.

In so far as preparing, well I can't possibly agree w/Flea more on

the topic of loving one's spouse. I thought I loved dh before our

kids were born, but my word. There's nothing to describe the feelings

when I look at dh at 1am in the morning pacing the floor w/a teething

9mos old after I've tried unsuccessfully for 2 hours to get him to

sleep and dh has to wake up at 5am and go to work. Or when I got home

w/the baby for the first weeks and he wouldn't sleep but an hour at a

time and wake up, nurse, go back to sleep, wake up w/diaper, need to

nurse again, back to sleep, wake up next hour w/diaper crying, etc

etc. Then dh comes in at 4in the morning and says to new

mommy, 'okay, I think you need some sleep. Let me take over for a few

hours if you don't mind.' At that point I didn't mind at all but b/c

I was sleeping downstairs I didn't know he knew what was going on

between me and newborn. What a lifesaver! And again, I thought I was

inlove before, but honestly I didn't know squat about love until we

had kids together.

How to prepare for parenting? Its hard. No matter what you read, who

you talk to, what you think, it all changes when you live it up close

and personal yourself. It is a path that is either walked or not

walked. Limbo doesn't really exist in this realm. The first lesson I

learned about parenting, true parenting, came in the delivery room. I

wanted so badly to have a natural childbirth- no drugs, none of that.

Well my water broke w/o any hard labor. Baby was 10 days late.

Meconium in the water which meant I couldn't walk around to progress

labor and had to have a catheter. No progression after 7 hours. Then

they stick me on magnesium b/c my blood pressure was rising from

stress. They also stuck an antibiotic IV in me for group-B strep.Then

after 4 more hours and no progress, the dreaded pitocin. Pitocin

makes you insane. don't go there. Skip it. Pitocin made me beg for an

epideral, something I swore I'd never do. The epideral helped a

little but still, not much. After 22 hours of labor w/broken water

and late baby and little progress we realized we might actually have

to go in for the horrific c-section- something I NEVER wanted. I was

petrified. I was resenting my son. I was mad that the plans weren't

going the way I wanted. I never went under the knife before and now I

was going to go. Then the doctor said the best advice almost anyone's

ever given to me about parenting. He knew how much I wanted a natural

childbirth and really let me go way beyond most doctors would've

w/broken water. He turned to me and held my hand and said 'you know,

you can plan, and plan and plan, but things won't always go according

to plans and that's life and that's parenting. You are now facing

your first major parenting decision in deciding w/me that its enough

and you need to get that baby out. Welcome to the world of parenting.

Its never as you expect, but often better.' I cried a little bit

feeling sorry for myself, then I looked over at the Christmas tree of

5 IVs hanging off to my side running into all parts of my body and I

just started laughing. I was laughing at how much I had wrapped up

into the birth process and how much I wanted this or that type of

birth and no drugs and what not and hear I am w/more stuff than

anyone had almost ever seen. And I said 'lets meet this new little

guy.' And my life has never been the same since. That was Custard's

last stand for 'self'. That was my crossing into the threshold of

parenthood- sacrificing my body, my wishes, my dreams for something

so much larger than I'll ever be- my family. And I don't have a

single regret in so far as that's concerned. I have a c-section

scare, but I wear it w/pride:) My vanity has gone onto my children

and I am secure w/that. I know I'm still beautiful in so many ways

and more so than I ever was before. I see it in my husband's eyes and

in the eyes of my children. You know there are times when I have

looked into my children's eyes and said 'you are the most beautiful

creature I've ever seen on God's green earth' and then I'd catch my

breath and see that my oldest has my long eyelashes and my dimple and

rosy cheeks. And my younger son has my deep gray blue eyes and high

forehead. I mean to say, I knew other people have said I was pretty

before, but I see in my children a beauty inside me that I never

really knew existed. I can see it in their eyes and it brings me to

tears. I wish I had always loved me as much as I do now so that I

wouldn't have put me in harms way as much as I did. In looking into

their eyes though, the battle to take care of me is so much easier,

so much an after thought. I have to stick around for them and so the

thought of leaving nada behind is not so difficult compared to the

future I see in their eyes. The way they look at me w/such utter

trust and love is just something incredible. I never imagined it

before and I certainly didn't have kids to get that kind of love, but

I see now so much more the worth of my soul in seeing the worth of

their souls and protecting them. I am a stronger woman because of my

kids, because I want to be a strong mother and wife and in so being,

I'm a stronger woman and human being.

And dh, well, I see him too in my son's hands, in his round face, in

my other son's cheek bones and chin and eyelashes. I thought I loved

my husband before but in seeing him in them, I cherish him all the

more. I see that I must treat him w/the utmost care and love and

nurturance b/c he is their father...their idol and god. I must never

take away from that but only add to it. And I know he feels the same

about me as I can tell a big difference in how we treat each other

since they've entered our world. We don't fight as much and we are

much more careful in how we do fight and we don't fight infront of

them, but rather step into another room or take a breather. They are

little boys that need to always look up to their father and I never

want to diminish his image in their eyes. His blood is in their veins

as much as mine and yet they are their own people - separate and

distinct from dh or I. And yet in order for them to some day spread

their wings and fly in this world and in this life, they've got to

have strong roots. Our love for each other is that very root that

will give them the freedom I never knew and yet always believed in

within the depths of my soul as a child. I knew that there was a

different way and I see in my children a new path- a better path and

yet similar struggles in the mere fact we're humans and humans do

struggle. But their wings won't be clipped like my mother always

tried to do to mine. No, my job as a mother is to make sure the roots

are firm and they know where they stand in the universe so that they

can fly off into a tomorrow I can only dream about, but never

venture. My job is now to be the bow that holds the arrow as Kahil

Gibran so beautifully put it in the Prophet. I am comfortable being

the bow. 'God loves the bow as much as he loves the arrow.' I know

that.

In so far as other good advice I had, my sil, the same one mentioned

above, told us before our first son was born 'There will be days you

want to throw them out the window. Just don't.' Sage advice. So true.

So true. There were days early on when my first son would cry and cry

and need so much that I was ill equipped to give and I had mild

postpartum and his crying would just grate on my last nerves and I'd

want to shake him or whatever and I would stop myself and question

where this heinous evil alien feeling was coming from and I'd leave

my son in his carseat and just go in the bathroom and cry and cry and

cry b/c I knew my blueprint sucked. I knew I had nothing to fall back

on for parenting and I had to trust God and the angels to help me

through this moment and do like Hyppocrates said - 'do no harm'. And

I didn't. But I had to face more ugliness than I ever realized was

inside me by stepping away when the stress was too much. It was a

choice. It was a struggle. It was me learning about the dignity of

man and relationships and literally some of the hardest treading to a

new pathway- forging out a new direction for our family tree. In

those moments nobody but God and I saw, I became redeemed in so many

ways against the abuse and assaults against the soul that borderline

personality disorder wreaks on a young baby even, a baby that will

some day be an adult. Those moments of utter terror at what lie

dormant in my soul were the hardest parts of me to face- to

erradicate and erase as a potential pathway. And I only had to do

that w/my first b/c it all came so much easier w/my second son (a new

path had been forged already through my first son. The second was

relying more on habits and traditions we started as a family unit).

But still. It was such a struggle some days to face my past. To face

the anger and rage my mom had towards me and to just give it up to

God and cry and cry and let my baby cry b/c I knew he was at least

safe and I would eventually compose myself, regain my strength and

knowledge of who I was today and go back into the room, pick him up,

hug him, nurse him, calm his fears and go on w/life. He is one of

the calmest children you'd ever want to meet and he was for the most

part fairly calm as a baby, but I do think much of that was b/c I

refused to ever react to him w/o clarity. I would walk away from him

before I laid one finger on him when I wasn't in my right frame of

mind and that is something I had to face- my inner demons- my

inheritance of a legacy of abuse. And it scared the living $hit out

of me. And it made me a million times stronger than I ever thought I

would be. You can see it in my kids though- that they don't know or

understand anything but gentleness as they have really gotten freaked

out at places like Chuck E Cheese when a kid gets yelled at or talked

down to really harshly. My oldest one cries as he doesn't understand

it at all. I don't have to yell at him ever. I just raise my voice to

a more seious intonation and he is so responsive. It makes me so sad

that other parents just don't take the time to try and learn how to

treat children w/respect and consideration of their feelings (and the

latest one is that when our two year old feels like screaming, he can

go to the corner and scream all he wants but he can't scream at

people. He cracks us up as he'll just walk over to the corner, scream

a bit and then come back to what he was doing. We give him the

freedom to emote though. We just pull him in when he acts abusively

towards us or his younger brother as 2 years are want to do

occassionally as they learn the rules of engagement).

I also have learned through my kids that the path I am chosing is not

the path nada chose to walk. She walks as a victim in life. I walk as

a conqueror. I was a victim. I chose not to be anymore. I chose the

path of difficulty so that my children will not have it so difficult.

I am introspective to protect them. I face my demons so that their

demons will not be so big. I have learned to protect myself from

nada's abuse well into my adulthood that she never deserved to have

access to so that my children will know that its not okay for ANYONE

to abuse a person. Furthermore I am also learning dh does not deserve

this crap of nada messing w/our lives. But most importantly I am

learning I don't deserve to have it in my life either. That my needs

are important too, that I am more than just nada's invisible daughter

or dh's very much loved wife or my sons' adored mother. I am my own

woman and that is something I have found in my family of today that I

am not sure I would've ever had the courage to find in isolation. And

I did not ever want to get married or have kids b/c I was so afraid

of being like nada. Courage is NOT the lack of fear. Courage is

having an enormous amount of fear but doing what needs to be done

anyway. Facing that fear. Imagine if only people like nadas had kids.

This world would suck!

You will screw up. Expect that. But you will also learn how to

say 'I'm sorry'. And to forgive yourself b/c you never want your kids

to be unforgiving towards themselves and live w/shame. That is how I

have learned to forgive myself. I do not want them to feel such shame

we KOs always had and if I want them to live a life w/o shame then I

must learn to be human and accept my mistakes and realize people do

not have to be perfect to be loved and that I don't have to be

perfect to be loved. In fact there is nothing perfect EXCEPT love

that exists in the human condition. This is what I have learned from

parenting and I hope you do embark on the journey too. You have

enough fear and awareness to make it a great journey. My sil and

other therapists have often lamented that some of the best parents

that walk the planet are ones who were sadly abused in childhood. The

reason is simple. The awareness level and desire not to repeat is so

highly ingrained that even the remotest potential for abuse is faced

and overcome (though of course this is not the case for all or else

abuse cycles would not repeat. I am just saying for those that DO

break the cycle, they are often times better parents than those who

come from very 'normal' childhoods). I am sure you will be a good

parent. The fact you even asked shows a concern most people never

even contemplate. And instincts? Well you learn them when the child

is growing inside you. You know them before they ever draw their

first breath. You will have them as much as any of us and sometimes

it is overrated and a lot of times it is learned by just getting to

know the child.

Many best wishes to you.

Kerrie

>

> Hi everyone. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, as I know there's

been lots of posting on

> this subject, but it's one of great concern for me. For most of my

life I've never even

> wanted to have kids. I think this is partly because my nada really

gave me the impression

> that she became the way she was when she had kids--and I don't want

to become like her.

> It's also partly because I've always thought I just wouldn't be

good at it, maybe because of

> lots of bad examples.

>

> I've been thinking differently lately, however. It's probably the

result of going to therapy

> and realizing that I'll never be like my mother and that maybe I

could be an ok parent after

> all. I'll definitely be working through some more things and I've

read a lot of posts on how

> some of you tackle parenting already.

>

> What I'd like to kow is what changes those of you who have kids or

consider having kids

> have made in your lives or yourselves in order to sort of prepare.

I feel at a loss for a

> good place to start because not only was I not in a normal family

growing up, but also was

> kept pretty sheltered from any other normal families growing up.

>

> I've learned a lot already about how I'd prefer to live, but I

guess one thing I've learned is

> that you sometimes just don't realize what you don't know! So,

what do you all know? Is

> there anything that you suddenly realized you needed to learn fast

when you became a

> parent?

>

> Trish

>

January 28, 2006

Kerrie and Trish,

Trish, thanks for the great question. Kerrie, thanks for more beautiful

sharing about your inspiring growth and insights.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- Kerrie wrote:

> Trish,

>

> These are good questions and the fact you're thinking about them says

> that you have an awareness that nadas just simply do not have nor

> care to have. I've read most of the responses and really like them. I

> especially like the fact that someone suggested drawing up a last

> Will and Testament (I think it was Flea?) so that your wishes for

> custody in the event something should happen to you be respected.

> Dh's oldest sister is listed on our Will as legal guardian (Wills are

> cheap enough too- only $200 w/a lawyer and maybe $25 w/o one). She's

> a psychiatrist and the first one to ever mention the term Borderline

> Personality Disorder to me when I described nada's behavior. She can

> more than hold her own w/my family and protect our kids- better than

> most anyone I've ever met. Though we'd never want our kids left alone

> w/nada. Plain and simple.

>

> In so far as preparing, well I can't possibly agree w/Flea more on

> the topic of loving one's spouse. I thought I loved dh before our

> kids were born, but my word. There's nothing to describe the feelings

> when I look at dh at 1am in the morning pacing the floor w/a teething

> 9mos old after I've tried unsuccessfully for 2 hours to get him to

> sleep and dh has to wake up at 5am and go to work. Or when I got home

> w/the baby for the first weeks and he wouldn't sleep but an hour at a

> time and wake up, nurse, go back to sleep, wake up w/diaper, need to

> nurse again, back to sleep, wake up next hour w/diaper crying, etc

> etc. Then dh comes in at 4in the morning and says to new

> mommy, 'okay, I think you need some sleep. Let me take over for a few

> hours if you don't mind.' At that point I didn't mind at all but b/c

> I was sleeping downstairs I didn't know he knew what was going on

> between me and newborn. What a lifesaver! And again, I thought I was

> inlove before, but honestly I didn't know squat about love until we

> had kids together.

>

> How to prepare for parenting? Its hard. No matter what you read, who

> you talk to, what you think, it all changes when you live it up close

> and personal yourself. It is a path that is either walked or not

> walked. Limbo doesn't really exist in this realm. The first lesson I

> learned about parenting, true parenting, came in the delivery room. I

> wanted so badly to have a natural childbirth- no drugs, none of that.

> Well my water broke w/o any hard labor. Baby was 10 days late.

> Meconium in the water which meant I couldn't walk around to progress

> labor and had to have a catheter. No progression after 7 hours. Then

> they stick me on magnesium b/c my blood pressure was rising from

> stress. They also stuck an antibiotic IV in me for group-B strep.Then

> after 4 more hours and no progress, the dreaded pitocin. Pitocin

> makes you insane. don't go there. Skip it. Pitocin made me beg for an

> epideral, something I swore I'd never do. The epideral helped a

> little but still, not much. After 22 hours of labor w/broken water

> and late baby and little progress we realized we might actually have

> to go in for the horrific c-section- something I NEVER wanted. I was

> petrified. I was resenting my son. I was mad that the plans weren't

> going the way I wanted. I never went under the knife before and now I

> was going to go. Then the doctor said the best advice almost anyone's

> ever given to me about parenting. He knew how much I wanted a natural

> childbirth and really let me go way beyond most doctors would've

> w/broken water. He turned to me and held my hand and said 'you know,

> you can plan, and plan and plan, but things won't always go according

> to plans and that's life and that's parenting. You are now facing

> your first major parenting decision in deciding w/me that its enough

> and you need to get that baby out. Welcome to the world of parenting.

> Its never as you expect, but often better.' I cried a little bit

> feeling sorry for myself, then I looked over at the Christmas tree of

> 5 IVs hanging off to my side running into all parts of my body and I

> just started laughing. I was laughing at how much I had wrapped up

> into the birth process and how much I wanted this or that type of

> birth and no drugs and what not and hear I am w/more stuff than

> anyone had almost ever seen. And I said 'lets meet this new little

> guy.' And my life has never been the same since. That was Custard's

> last stand for 'self'. That was my crossing into the threshold of

> parenthood- sacrificing my body, my wishes, my dreams for something

> so much larger than I'll ever be- my family. And I don't have a

> single regret in so far as that's concerned. I have a c-section

> scare, but I wear it w/pride:) My vanity has gone onto my children

> and I am secure w/that. I know I'm still beautiful in so many ways

> and more so than I ever was before. I see it in my husband's eyes and

> in the eyes of my children. You know there are times when I have

> looked into my children's eyes and said 'you are the most beautiful

> creature I've ever seen on God's green earth' and then I'd catch my

> breath and see that my oldest has my long eyelashes and my dimple and

> rosy cheeks. And my younger son has my deep gray blue eyes and high

> forehead. I mean to say, I knew other people have said I was pretty

> before, but I see in my children a beauty inside me that I never

> really knew existed. I can see it in their eyes and it brings me to

> tears. I wish I had always loved me as much as I do now so that I

> wouldn't have put me in harms way as much as I did. In looking into

> their eyes though, the battle to take care of me is so much easier,

> so much an after thought. I have to stick around for them and so the

> thought of leaving nada behind is not so difficult compared to the

> future I see in their eyes. The way they look at me w/such utter

> trust and love is just something incredible. I never imagined it

> before and I certainly didn't have kids to get that kind of love, but

> I see now so much more the worth of my soul in seeing the worth of

> their souls and protecting them. I am a stronger woman because of my

> kids, because I want to be a strong mother and wife and in so being,

> I'm a stronger woman and human being.

>

> And dh, well, I see him too in my son's hands, in his round face, in

> my other son's cheek bones and chin and eyelashes. I thought I loved

> my husband before but in seeing him in them, I cherish him all the

> more. I see that I must treat him w/the utmost care and love and

> nurturance b/c he is their father...their idol and god. I must never

> take away from that but only add to it. And I know he feels the same

> about me as I can tell a big difference in how we treat each other

> since they've entered our world. We don't fight as much and we are

> much more careful in how we do fight and we don't fight infront of

> them, but rather step into another room or take a breather. They are

> little boys that need to always look up to their father and I never

> want to diminish his image in their eyes. His blood is in their veins

> as much as mine and yet they are their own people - separate and

> distinct from dh or I. And yet in order for them to some day spread

> their wings and fly in this world and in this life, they've got to

> have strong roots. Our love for each other is that very root that

> will give them the freedom I never knew and yet always believed in

> within the depths of my soul as a child. I knew that there was a

> different way and I see in my children a new path- a better path and

> yet similar struggles in the mere fact we're humans and humans do

> struggle. But their wings won't be clipped like my mother always

> tried to do to mine. No, my job as a mother is to make sure the roots

> are firm and they know where they stand in the universe so that they

> can fly off into a tomorrow I can only dream about, but never

> venture. My job is now to be the bow that holds the arrow as Kahil

> Gibran so beautifully put it in the Prophet. I am comfortable being

> the bow. 'God loves the bow as much as he loves the arrow.' I know

> that.

>

> In so far as other good advice I had, my sil, the same one mentioned

> above, told us before our first son was born 'There will be days you

> want to throw them out the window. Just don't.' Sage advice. So true.

> So true. There were days early on when my first son would cry and cry

> and need so much that I was ill equipped to give and I had mild

> postpartum and his crying would just grate on my last nerves and I'd

> want to shake him or whatever and I would stop myself and question

> where this heinous evil alien feeling was coming from and I'd leave

> my son in his carseat and just go in the bathroom and cry and cry and

> cry b/c I knew my blueprint sucked. I knew I had nothing to fall back

> on for parenting and I had to trust God and the angels to help me

> through this moment and do like Hyppocrates said - 'do no harm'. And

> I didn't. But I had to face more ugliness than I ever realized was

> inside me by stepping away when the stress was too much. It was a

> choice. It was a struggle. It was me learning about the dignity of

> man and relationships and literally some of the hardest treading to a

> new pathway- forging out a new direction for our family tree. In

> those moments nobody but God and I saw, I became redeemed in so many

> ways against the abuse and assaults against the soul that borderline

> personality disorder wreaks on a young baby even, a baby that will

> some day be an adult. Those moments of utter terror at what lie

> dormant in my soul were the hardest parts of me to face- to

> erradicate and erase as a potential pathway. And I only had to do

> that w/my first b/c it all came so much easier w/my second son (a new

> path had been forged already through my first son. The second was

> relying more on habits and traditions we started as a family unit).

> But still. It was such a struggle some days to face my past. To face

> the anger and rage my mom had towards me and to just give it up to

> God and cry and cry and let my baby cry b/c I knew he was at least

> safe and I would eventually compose myself, regain my strength and

> knowledge of who I was today and go back into the room, pick him up,

> hug him, nurse him, calm his fears and go on w/life. He is one of

> the calmest children you'd ever want to meet and he was for the most

> part fairly calm as a baby, but I do think much of that was b/c I

> refused to ever react to him w/o clarity. I would walk away from him

> before I laid one finger on him when I wasn't in my right frame of

> mind and that is something I had to face- my inner demons- my

> inheritance of a legacy of abuse. And it scared the living $hit out

> of me. And it made me a million times stronger than I ever thought I

> would be. You can see it in my kids though- that they don't know or

> understand anything but gentleness as they have really gotten freaked

> out at places like Chuck E Cheese when a kid gets yelled at or talked

> down to really harshly. My oldest one cries as he doesn't understand

> it at all. I don't have to yell at him ever. I just raise my voice to

> a more seious intonation and he is so responsive. It makes me so sad

> that other parents just don't take the time to try and learn how to

> treat children w/respect and consideration of their feelings (and the

> latest one is that when our two year old feels like screaming, he can

> go to the corner and scream all he wants but he can't scream at

> people. He cracks us up as he'll just walk over to the corner, scream

> a bit and then come back to what he was doing. We give him the

> freedom to emote though. We just pull him in when he acts abusively

> towards us or his younger brother as 2 years are want to do

> occassionally as they learn the rules of engagement).

>

> I also have learned through my kids that the path I am chosing is not

> the path nada chose to walk. She walks as a victim in life. I walk as

> a conqueror. I was a victim. I chose not to be anymore. I chose the

> path of difficulty so that my children will not have it so difficult.

> I am introspective to protect them. I face my demons so that their

> demons will not be so big. I have learned to protect myself from

> nada's abuse well into my adulthood that she never deserved to have

> access to so that my children will know that its not okay for ANYONE

> to abuse a person. Furthermore I am also learning dh does not deserve

> this crap of nada messing w/our lives. But most importantly I am

> learning I don't deserve to have it in my life either. That my needs

> are important too, that I am more than just nada's invisible daughter

> or dh's very much loved wife or my sons' adored mother. I am my own

> woman and that is something I have found in my family of today that I

> am not sure I would've ever had the courage to find in isolation. And

> I did not ever want to get married or have kids b/c I was so afraid

> of being like nada. Courage is NOT the lack of fear. Courage is

> having an enormous amount of fear but doing what needs to be done

> anyway. Facing that fear. Imagine if only people like nadas had kids.

> This world would suck!

>

> You will screw up. Expect that. But you will also learn how to

> say 'I'm sorry'. And to forgive yourself b/c you never want your kids

> to be unforgiving towards themselves and live w/shame. That is how I

> have learned to forgive myself. I do not want them to feel such shame

> we KOs always had and if I want them to live a life w/o shame then I

> must learn to be human and accept my mistakes and realize people do

> not have to be perfect to be loved and that I don't have to be

> perfect to be loved. In fact there is nothing perfect EXCEPT love

> that exists in the human condition. This is what I have learned from

> parenting and I hope you do embark on the journey too. You have

> enough fear and awareness to make it a great journey. My sil and

> other therapists have often lamented that some of the best parents

> that walk the planet are ones who were sadly abused in childhood. The

> reason is simple. The awareness level and desire not to repeat is so

> highly ingrained that even the remotest potential for abuse is faced

> and overcome (though of course this is not the case for all or else

> abuse cycles would not repeat. I am just saying for those that DO

> break the cycle, they are often times better parents than those who

> come from very 'normal' childhoods). I am sure you will be a good

> parent. The fact you even asked shows a concern most people never

> even contemplate. And instincts? Well you learn them when the child

> is growing inside you. You know them before they ever draw their

> first breath. You will have them as much as any of us and sometimes

> it is overrated and a lot of times it is learned by just getting to

> know the child.

>

> Many best wishes to you.

> Kerrie

>

> >

> > Hi everyone. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, as I know there's

> been lots of posting on

> > this subject, but it's one of great concern for me. For most of my

> life I've never even

> > wanted to have kids. I think this is partly because my nada really

> gave me the impression

> > that she became the way she was when she had kids--and I don't want

> to become like her.

> > It's also partly because I've always thought I just wouldn't be

> good at it, maybe because of

> > lots of bad examples.

> >

> > I've been thinking differently lately, however. It's probably the

> result of going to therapy

> > and realizing that I'll never be like my mother and that maybe I

> could be an ok parent after

> > all. I'll definitely be working through some more things and I've

> read a lot of posts on how

> > some of you tackle parenting already.

> >

> > What I'd like to kow is what changes those of you who have kids or

> consider having kids

> > have made in your lives or yourselves in order to sort of prepare.

> I feel at a loss for a

> > good place to start because not only was I not in a normal family

> growing up, but also was

> > kept pretty sheltered from any other normal families growing up.

> >

> > I've learned a lot already about how I'd prefer to live, but I

> guess one thing I've learned is

> > that you sometimes just don't realize what you don't know! So,

> what do you all know? Is

> > there anything that you suddenly realized you needed to learn fast

> when you became a

> > parent?

> >

> > Trish

> >

>

__________________________________________________

January 28, 2006

Kerrie, thanks for your response. I agree with non-bp, it was beautiful. I've

actually taken

a few things away about parenting from your posts before on different

subjects--but I so

appreciate the time and care you took in this post. After reading it, it just

feel sort of

freed in a way. It's been a long road from never wanting to have kids because I

feared

being like nada--to actually feeling like I would want to and that I'd be a fine

mother.

I thought your strategy for dealing with your 2-year old was great. I'm so

worried about

not letting my children express their emotions--particularly anger--because it

freaks me

out so much.

I thought what you said about forgiving your own mistakes in order to be a model

to your

children was particularly beautiful: