Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Greg, I think what strikes me most about this email is how it absolutely REEKS of enmeshment -- it's like there's no room to breathe between her constant use of the royal " We " and no acknowledgement that your life experience might be different from hers in any way or that she DOESN'T fully understand what you're going through and why.... Ugghhhhhh! The arrogance, the entitlement, the assumption that she knows your innermost thoughts -- and, most sickeningly, that you BOTH need to do the exact same thing and get on your little boats of freedom (together, of course)... it makes me shudder -- because it's so familiar, I guess, the emotional incest. Oh well -- I'm probably not helping you laugh this off, but I'd seriously consider setting up a new email address so she can't send this kind of garbage your way anymore. This little missive doesn't comply with your NC rule and she's obviously going to continue to try and manipulate you any way she can. If she's going to keep you updated on her cancer, I say let her do that through your voicemail and, when this crisis is over, get a new phone number too! Shana Email from my nada To: wtoadultchildren1 > Hi Everyone, > > I got a call from my nada (n/c for a little over a month) that > was within the boundary I set of n/c except for contact > information about her newly dx'd breast cancer. Tomorrow she is > to have her third surgery as they keep finding cancer. Well, I > got this email from her this morning and it upset me for about > three minutes and then I laughed about it. > > She wrote: > > Dear Greg, > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. This letter is > written in love for both of us. > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > always hoping to keep you alive and to share your pain. > I believe within my heart from what you said yesterday about > being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am taking > your life away from you. My intentions have always been to give > you life, not take it away from you. Out of fear, I have done > this for 21 years for fear of losing you to an act of suicide. > By both of us acting this way, both of us have not wholly > developed a life for ourselves. We both need to back off and > each one of us make a life for ourselves. > May the rest of our wonderful lives unfold like the ceremony > of both of us cutting the ropes for each other. Go aboard our > own respective boat and allow each other to move towards our futures. > You're always in my heart, Greg. > Love, > Mom > > It goes along with what I would expect in an email from her > but with an improvement: she didn't rage and call me names and > directly blame me and tell me how mentally ill I am. I can't > tell you how much her 1-5 phone calls a day about her, her cat, > the abuse she was taking from her SO, her rages, distortion > campaigns, calling the police and telling them that I was trying > to kill her with a knife (they showed up and she was pointing to > the floor and saying see there is the knife, and there was > nothing there!), all helped keep me from killing myself for 21 > years. What a Crock!! I think she is mad as hell at me that I > went n/c. This is how I really see the letter: > > Dear Greg, > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. (How dare you > leave me, no matter what I do, you crazy Bast*$A%) This letter > is written in love for both of us. This " in love for both of us " > seems really emotionally incestuous to me. It's like a Freudian > slip using " in " instead of " with love " (You don't love me > anymore, and I am not going to face my fear of being unlovable, > so I'll cut you out of my life) > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > always hoping to keep you(myself) alive and to share your (My) > pain. So you can fix me (not possible). > I believe within my heart (What you said made sense to my > head, so I will distort it from my feelings) from what you said > yesterday about being a surrogate husband to me you are saying > that I am taking your life away from you. (I don't know if this > is subtle blame?? or what?) My intentions have always been to > give you (Myself) life,(and use you to do this) not take it away > from you(Myself). Out of fear (of having to face myself and the > consequences of what I have done to you and being alone), I have > done this for 21 years for fear of losing you (Myself) to an act > of suicide. > By both of us (Me) acting this way, both of us (I) have not > wholly developed a life for ourselves (Myself) (I have enslaved > you to me since you were born - how dare you free yourself). We > both need to back off and each one of us make a life for > ourselves. (I had to put this sentence in here b/c you already > rejected/abandoned me) > May the rest of our (My) wonderful lives (life) unfold like > the ceremony (more emotional incestuous crap = ceremony?) of > both of us cutting the ropes for each other. (both of us cutting > the ropes for each other? This just sounds sick to me) Go aboard > our own respective boat (Notice it's not plural= boats) and > allow each other to move towards our futures. (allow??? > ownership?? The wording is just gross). > You're always in my heart, Greg. (I'll make you pay if it's > the last thing I do in this life) > Love, (I hate your F'ing Guts) > Mom (Saint) > > What do you guys think? It made me nauseaus, especially the > last part. I think she is hoping for a Tag-you're it. I'm not > going to respond to her email. I don't need a mother now. > Since I have read so many of your posts about your nada's an > fada's, you guys have helped me to see certain people, > especially my mother more clearly. Most importantly, I see > myself more clearly and how I am already getting myself > back/becoming myself. Thanks for your support. > > Greg. > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 I received a similar letter from my nada. She stated that she was sorry that she could not be the mother that I wanted and she could not change, that was just not her. My DH stated, oh, so it is a bad thing to want your mother to be courteous, thoughtful and kind to you. That put nada;s letter in perspective. I am sure that she had someone advise her in writing the letter; she as the victim gets lots of mileage from her sad stories about what a terrible daughter I am to her. blah blah blah, mg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Greg, Your email from nada reminded me of a spouse who abused his wife and she finally left and now he is saying what he thinks will get her back. My bet is that when you don't respond favorably then the wrath will come. It is a manipulation and usually their big trump card is guilt. Bp's seem incapable of empathy and speaking from their heart, everything is an attempt to get what they want from others no matter how sincerely it is presented. Of course, you know that. At the end of the day the truth remains, they are not capable of a healthy loving relationship no matter what they say or do. We can kick different ideas and theories around in our mind, go through stages of yearning, doubting and rationalizing, but in the end they are a destructive and negative force that will destroy us if we let them, period. After going n/c with nada I received a birthday card in very shaky handwriting that said 'I will always love you and God has a plan for your life. " I thought, better yet 'I' have a plan for my life. It sounds like she used the suicide attempt to shame you and keep you an emotional prisoner. What a perfect scenario for a nada/fada! YOU are the screw up and I am sacrificing my life for YOU! Yeah right. A more accurate description would be 'I am exploiting you via a traumatic incident you experienced to fulfill my sick needs and presenting it in the name of love and sacrifice. More like in the name of selfishness. Jesus, does EVERYTHING have to be about them? Apparently. These people don't care how much they take from us, they'll take until they kill someone and then find someone knew. They truly are dangerous and emotionally and spiritually murderous. When I think of nada I imagine a dark spirit that devours, regardless of the angelic facade she may present. A wolf in sheeps clothing. And after I went n/c I held tight to that truth when old, conditioned feelings of obligation and guilt arose. No matter how I sliced or diced it, at the end of the day the truth remained, (for whatever reason; she was mentally ill, her traumatic childhood caused her to be that way, etc) she was a dark force that over shadowed my soul and kept me detached from my self, my inner light. Nobody has that right, nor could we possibly owe anyone that much, parent or not. Take care, > > Dear Greg, > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. This letter is written in love for both of us. > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years always hoping to keep you alive and to share your pain. > I believe within my heart from what you said yesterday about being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am taking your life away from you. My intentions have always been to give you life, not take it away from you. Out of fear, I have done this for 21 years for fear of losing you to an act of suicide. > By both of us acting this way, both of us have not wholly developed a life for ourselves. We both need to back off and each one of us make a life for ourselves. > May the rest of our wonderful lives unfold like the ceremony of both of us cutting the ropes for each other. Go aboard our own respective boat and allow each other to move towards our futures. > You're always in my heart, Greg. > Love, > Mom > > It goes along with what I would expect in an email from her but with an improvement: she didn't rage and call me names and directly blame me and tell me how mentally ill I am. I can't tell you how much her 1-5 phone calls a day about her, her cat, the abuse she was taking from her SO, her rages, distortion campaigns, calling the police and telling them that I was trying to kill her with a knife (they showed up and she was pointing to the floor and saying see there is the knife, and there was nothing there!), all helped keep me from killing myself for 21 years. What a Crock!! I think she is mad as hell at me that I went n/c. This is how I really see the letter: > > Dear Greg, > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. (How dare you leave me, no matter what I do, you crazy Bast*$A%) This letter is written in love for both of us. This " in love for both of us " seems really emotionally incestuous to me. It's like a Freudian slip using " in " instead of " with love " (You don't love me anymore, and I am not going to face my fear of being unlovable, so I'll cut you out of my life) > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years always hoping to keep you(myself) alive and to share your (My) pain. So you can fix me (not possible). > I believe within my heart (What you said made sense to my head, so I will distort it from my feelings) from what you said yesterday about being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am taking your life away from you. (I don't know if this is subtle blame?? or what?) My intentions have always been to give you (Myself) life,(and use you to do this) not take it away from you (Myself). Out of fear (of having to face myself and the consequences of what I have done to you and being alone), I have done this for 21 years for fear of losing you (Myself) to an act of suicide. > By both of us (Me) acting this way, both of us (I) have not wholly developed a life for ourselves (Myself) (I have enslaved you to me since you were born - how dare you free yourself). We both need to back off and each one of us make a life for ourselves. (I had to put this sentence in here b/c you already rejected/abandoned me) > May the rest of our (My) wonderful lives (life) unfold like the ceremony (more emotional incestuous crap = ceremony?) of both of us cutting the ropes for each other. (both of us cutting the ropes for each other? This just sounds sick to me) Go aboard our own respective boat (Notice it's not plural= boats) and allow each other to move towards our futures. (allow??? ownership?? The wording is just gross). > You're always in my heart, Greg. (I'll make you pay if it's the last thing I do in this life) > Love, (I hate your F'ing Guts) > Mom (Saint) > > What do you guys think? It made me nauseaus, especially the last part. I think she is hoping for a Tag-you're it. I'm not going to respond to her email. I don't need a mother now. Since I have read so many of your posts about your nada's an fada's, you guys have helped me to see certain people, especially my mother more clearly. Most importantly, I see myself more clearly and how I am already getting myself back/becoming myself. Thanks for your support. > > Greg. > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Shana, THANK YOU sooo much for that validation. When you wrote: REEKS of enmeshment -- it's like there's no room to breathe between her constant use of the royal " We " and no acknowledgement that your life experience might be different from hers in any way or that she DOESN'T fully understand what you're going through and why.... it was a lightbulb moment of connectivity, understanding and empathy. Thank you! I have felt this way my entire life and tried to explain it, but it just fell on deaf ears. And as far as the emeshment goes, that panic feeling I felt for 3 weeks after I placed the n/c felt like a free fall. I mean, sometimes I feel how much this has stunted my self-identification and then I feel very vulnerable. I was able to laugh yesterday about it, and what I feel today is more about me - I feel hungover/drained from working on what that email brought up. And you and the other are very right about my not replying and the wrath. It's weird, but I feel right now like she could come into my home, start raging at me and I SOLIDLY would know that it has nothing to do with me. Period. What has to do with me is getting to know Greg again/maybe for the first time. I am doing the exercises in SWOE's workbook. It really helps, but I am taking a break. Thank you, Shana. Greg. slarsen988@... wrote: Greg, I think what strikes me most about this email is how it absolutely REEKS of enmeshment -- it's like there's no room to breathe between her constant use of the royal " We " and no acknowledgement that your life experience might be different from hers in any way or that she DOESN'T fully understand what you're going through and why.... Ugghhhhhh! The arrogance, the entitlement, the assumption that she knows your innermost thoughts -- and, most sickeningly, that you BOTH need to do the exact same thing and get on your little boats of freedom (together, of course)... it makes me shudder -- because it's so familiar, I guess, the emotional incest. Oh well -- I'm probably not helping you laugh this off, but I'd seriously consider setting up a new email address so she can't send this kind of garbage your way anymore. This little missive doesn't comply with your NC rule and she's obviously going to continue to try and manipulate you any way she can. If she's going to keep you updated on her cancer, I say let her do that through your voicemail and, when this crisis is over, get a new phone number too! Shana Email from my nada To: wtoadultchildren1 > Hi Everyone, > > I got a call from my nada (n/c for a little over a month) that > was within the boundary I set of n/c except for contact > information about her newly dx'd breast cancer. Tomorrow she is > to have her third surgery as they keep finding cancer. Well, I > got this email from her this morning and it upset me for about > three minutes and then I laughed about it. > > She wrote: > > Dear Greg, > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. This letter is > written in love for both of us. > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > always hoping to keep you alive and to share your pain. > I believe within my heart from what you said yesterday about > being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am taking > your life away from you. My intentions have always been to give > you life, not take it away from you. Out of fear, I have done > this for 21 years for fear of losing you to an act of suicide. > By both of us acting this way, both of us have not wholly > developed a life for ourselves. We both need to back off and > each one of us make a life for ourselves. > May the rest of our wonderful lives unfold like the ceremony > of both of us cutting the ropes for each other. Go aboard our > own respective boat and allow each other to move towards our futures. > You're always in my heart, Greg. > Love, > Mom > > It goes along with what I would expect in an email from her > but with an improvement: she didn't rage and call me names and > directly blame me and tell me how mentally ill I am. I can't > tell you how much her 1-5 phone calls a day about her, her cat, > the abuse she was taking from her SO, her rages, distortion > campaigns, calling the police and telling them that I was trying > to kill her with a knife (they showed up and she was pointing to > the floor and saying see there is the knife, and there was > nothing there!), all helped keep me from killing myself for 21 > years. What a Crock!! I think she is mad as hell at me that I > went n/c. This is how I really see the letter: > > Dear Greg, > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. (How dare you > leave me, no matter what I do, you crazy Bast*$A%) This letter > is written in love for both of us. This " in love for both of us " > seems really emotionally incestuous to me. It's like a Freudian > slip using " in " instead of " with love " (You don't love me > anymore, and I am not going to face my fear of being unlovable, > so I'll cut you out of my life) > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > always hoping to keep you(myself) alive and to share your (My) > pain. So you can fix me (not possible). > I believe within my heart (What you said made sense to my > head, so I will distort it from my feelings) from what you said > yesterday about being a surrogate husband to me you are saying > that I am taking your life away from you. (I don't know if this > is subtle blame?? or what?) My intentions have always been to > give you (Myself) life,(and use you to do this) not take it away > from you(Myself). Out of fear (of having to face myself and the > consequences of what I have done to you and being alone), I have > done this for 21 years for fear of losing you (Myself) to an act > of suicide. > By both of us (Me) acting this way, both of us (I) have not > wholly developed a life for ourselves (Myself) (I have enslaved > you to me since you were born - how dare you free yourself). We > both need to back off and each one of us make a life for > ourselves. (I had to put this sentence in here b/c you already > rejected/abandoned me) > May the rest of our (My) wonderful lives (life) unfold like > the ceremony (more emotional incestuous crap = ceremony?) of > both of us cutting the ropes for each other. (both of us cutting > the ropes for each other? This just sounds sick to me) Go aboard > our own respective boat (Notice it's not plural= boats) and > allow each other to move towards our futures. (allow??? > ownership?? The wording is just gross). > You're always in my heart, Greg. (I'll make you pay if it's > the last thing I do in this life) > Love, (I hate your F'ing Guts) > Mom (Saint) > > What do you guys think? It made me nauseaus, especially the > last part. I think she is hoping for a Tag-you're it. I'm not > going to respond to her email. I don't need a mother now. > Since I have read so many of your posts about your nada's an > fada's, you guys have helped me to see certain people, > especially my mother more clearly. Most importantly, I see > myself more clearly and how I am already getting myself > back/becoming myself. Thanks for your support. > > Greg. > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 MG, I am so glad that you have such a supportive and understanding DH; that was a great insight. It is not like we are asking them to walk on the moon. She really put the " you're crazy for wanting... " and blame in that letter to you. Good for you for not buying it. Greg. C D wrote: I received a similar letter from my nada. She stated that she was sorry that she could not be the mother that I wanted and she could not change, that was just not her. My DH stated, oh, so it is a bad thing to want your mother to be courteous, thoughtful and kind to you. That put nada;s letter in perspective. I am sure that she had someone advise her in writing the letter; she as the victim gets lots of mileage from her sad stories about what a terrible daughter I am to her. blah blah blah, mg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Greg, I just thought of an analogy for going NC that struck me. I read a book as a kid about a soldier captured during a war who was held captive in a small box. When he was released, it was excruciating to straighten out his limbs because they were so used to being bent and confined. Yet, I'm sure he was very very glad to be out of that box and more than happy to endure the adjustment. You have been squashed into a box all this time and you have found a way out, but you just need some time to adjust. Once you stretch out and start seeing all you can be outside the box, you will never ever want to get back in it. In fact, you probably wouldn't be able to fit. It's a really really small box. Fresabird > Shana, > > THANK YOU sooo much for that validation. When you wrote: > > REEKS of enmeshment -- it's like there's no room to breathe between > her constant use of the royal " We " and no acknowledgement that your > life experience might be different from hers in any way or that she > DOESN'T fully understand what you're going through and why.... > > it was a lightbulb moment of connectivity, understanding and empathy. > Thank you! I have felt this way my entire life and tried to explain > it, but it just fell on deaf ears. > > And as far as the emeshment goes, that panic feeling I felt for 3 > weeks after I placed the n/c felt like a free fall. I mean, sometimes > I feel how much this has stunted my self-identification and then I > feel very vulnerable. I was able to laugh yesterday about it, and what > I feel today is more about me - I feel hungover/drained from working > on what that email brought up. And you and the other are very right > about my not replying and the wrath. It's weird, but I feel right now > like she could come into my home, start raging at me and I SOLIDLY > would know that it has nothing to do with me. Period. What has to do > with me is getting to know Greg again/maybe for the first time. I am > doing the exercises in SWOE's workbook. It really helps, but I am > taking a break. > > Thank you, Shana. > > Greg. > > slarsen988@... wrote: > Greg, I think what strikes me most about this email is how it > absolutely REEKS of enmeshment -- it's like there's no room to breathe > between her constant use of the royal " We " and no acknowledgement that > your life experience might be different from hers in any way or that > she DOESN'T fully understand what you're going through and why.... > > Ugghhhhhh! > > The arrogance, the entitlement, the assumption that she knows your > innermost thoughts -- and, most sickeningly, that you BOTH need to do > the exact same thing and get on your little boats of freedom > (together, of course)... it makes me shudder -- because it's so > familiar, I guess, the emotional incest. > > Oh well -- I'm probably not helping you laugh this off, but I'd > seriously consider setting up a new email address so she can't send > this kind of garbage your way anymore. This little missive doesn't > comply with your NC rule and she's obviously going to continue to try > and manipulate you any way she can. If she's going to keep you updated > on her cancer, I say let her do that through your voicemail and, when > this crisis is over, get a new phone number too! > > Shana > > Email from my nada > To: wtoadultchildren1 > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I got a call from my nada (n/c for a little over a month) that > > was within the boundary I set of n/c except for contact > > information about her newly dx'd breast cancer. Tomorrow she is > > to have her third surgery as they keep finding cancer. Well, I > > got this email from her this morning and it upset me for about > > three minutes and then I laughed about it. > > > > She wrote: > > > > Dear Greg, > > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. This letter is > > written in love for both of us. > > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > > always hoping to keep you alive and to share your pain. > > I believe within my heart from what you said yesterday about > > being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am taking > > your life away from you. My intentions have always been to give > > you life, not take it away from you. Out of fear, I have done > > this for 21 years for fear of losing you to an act of suicide. > > By both of us acting this way, both of us have not wholly > > developed a life for ourselves. We both need to back off and > > each one of us make a life for ourselves. > > May the rest of our wonderful lives unfold like the ceremony > > of both of us cutting the ropes for each other. Go aboard our > > own respective boat and allow each other to move towards our > futures. > > You're always in my heart, Greg. > > Love, > > Mom > > > > It goes along with what I would expect in an email from her > > but with an improvement: she didn't rage and call me names and > > directly blame me and tell me how mentally ill I am. I can't > > tell you how much her 1-5 phone calls a day about her, her cat, > > the abuse she was taking from her SO, her rages, distortion > > campaigns, calling the police and telling them that I was trying > > to kill her with a knife (they showed up and she was pointing to > > the floor and saying see there is the knife, and there was > > nothing there!), all helped keep me from killing myself for 21 > > years. What a Crock!! I think she is mad as hell at me that I > > went n/c. This is how I really see the letter: > > > > Dear Greg, > > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. (How dare you > > leave me, no matter what I do, you crazy Bast*$A%) This letter > > is written in love for both of us. This " in love for both of us " > > seems really emotionally incestuous to me. It's like a Freudian > > slip using " in " instead of " with love " (You don't love me > > anymore, and I am not going to face my fear of being unlovable, > > so I'll cut you out of my life) > > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > > always hoping to keep you(myself) alive and to share your (My) > > pain. So you can fix me (not possible). > > I believe within my heart (What you said made sense to my > > head, so I will distort it from my feelings) from what you said > > yesterday about being a surrogate husband to me you are saying > > that I am taking your life away from you. (I don't know if this > > is subtle blame?? or what?) My intentions have always been to > > give you (Myself) life,(and use you to do this) not take it away > > from you(Myself). Out of fear (of having to face myself and the > > consequences of what I have done to you and being alone), I have > > done this for 21 years for fear of losing you (Myself) to an act > > of suicide. > > By both of us (Me) acting this way, both of us (I) have not > > wholly developed a life for ourselves (Myself) (I have enslaved > > you to me since you were born - how dare you free yourself). We > > both need to back off and each one of us make a life for > > ourselves. (I had to put this sentence in here b/c you already > > rejected/abandoned me) > > May the rest of our (My) wonderful lives (life) unfold like > > the ceremony (more emotional incestuous crap = ceremony?) of > > both of us cutting the ropes for each other. (both of us cutting > > the ropes for each other? This just sounds sick to me) Go aboard > > our own respective boat (Notice it's not plural= boats) and > > allow each other to move towards our futures. (allow??? > > ownership?? The wording is just gross). > > You're always in my heart, Greg. (I'll make you pay if it's > > the last thing I do in this life) > > Love, (I hate your F'ing Guts) > > Mom (Saint) > > > > What do you guys think? It made me nauseaus, especially the > > last part. I think she is hoping for a Tag-you're it. I'm not > > going to respond to her email. I don't need a mother now. > > Since I have read so many of your posts about your nada's an > > fada's, you guys have helped me to see certain people, > > especially my mother more clearly. Most importantly, I see > > myself more clearly and how I am already getting myself > > back/becoming myself. Thanks for your support. > > > > Greg. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Fresabird, thank you so muc. That is so sweet and thoughtful to tell me that analogy. Another Hug, Greg. fresabird@... wrote: Greg, I just thought of an analogy for going NC that struck me. I read a book as a kid about a soldier captured during a war who was held captive in a small box. When he was released, it was excruciating to straighten out his limbs because they were so used to being bent and confined. Yet, I'm sure he was very very glad to be out of that box and more than happy to endure the adjustment. You have been squashed into a box all this time and you have found a way out, but you just need some time to adjust. Once you stretch out and start seeing all you can be outside the box, you will never ever want to get back in it. In fact, you probably wouldn't be able to fit. It's a really really small box. Fresabird > Shana, > > THANK YOU sooo much for that validation. When you wrote: > > REEKS of enmeshment -- it's like there's no room to breathe between > her constant use of the royal " We " and no acknowledgement that your > life experience might be different from hers in any way or that she > DOESN'T fully understand what you're going through and why.... > > it was a lightbulb moment of connectivity, understanding and empathy. > Thank you! I have felt this way my entire life and tried to explain > it, but it just fell on deaf ears. > > And as far as the emeshment goes, that panic feeling I felt for 3 > weeks after I placed the n/c felt like a free fall. I mean, sometimes > I feel how much this has stunted my self-identification and then I > feel very vulnerable. I was able to laugh yesterday about it, and what > I feel today is more about me - I feel hungover/drained from working > on what that email brought up. And you and the other are very right > about my not replying and the wrath. It's weird, but I feel right now > like she could come into my home, start raging at me and I SOLIDLY > would know that it has nothing to do with me. Period. What has to do > with me is getting to know Greg again/maybe for the first time. I am > doing the exercises in SWOE's workbook. It really helps, but I am > taking a break. > > Thank you, Shana. > > Greg. > > slarsen988@... wrote: > Greg, I think what strikes me most about this email is how it > absolutely REEKS of enmeshment -- it's like there's no room to breathe > between her constant use of the royal " We " and no acknowledgement that > your life experience might be different from hers in any way or that > she DOESN'T fully understand what you're going through and why.... > > Ugghhhhhh! > > The arrogance, the entitlement, the assumption that she knows your > innermost thoughts -- and, most sickeningly, that you BOTH need to do > the exact same thing and get on your little boats of freedom > (together, of course)... it makes me shudder -- because it's so > familiar, I guess, the emotional incest. > > Oh well -- I'm probably not helping you laugh this off, but I'd > seriously consider setting up a new email address so she can't send > this kind of garbage your way anymore. This little missive doesn't > comply with your NC rule and she's obviously going to continue to try > and manipulate you any way she can. If she's going to keep you updated > on her cancer, I say let her do that through your voicemail and, when > this crisis is over, get a new phone number too! > > Shana > > Email from my nada > To: wtoadultchildren1 > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I got a call from my nada (n/c for a little over a month) that > > was within the boundary I set of n/c except for contact > > information about her newly dx'd breast cancer. Tomorrow she is > > to have her third surgery as they keep finding cancer. Well, I > > got this email from her this morning and it upset me for about > > three minutes and then I laughed about it. > > > > She wrote: > > > > Dear Greg, > > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. This letter is > > written in love for both of us. > > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > > always hoping to keep you alive and to share your pain. > > I believe within my heart from what you said yesterday about > > being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am taking > > your life away from you. My intentions have always been to give > > you life, not take it away from you. Out of fear, I have done > > this for 21 years for fear of losing you to an act of suicide. > > By both of us acting this way, both of us have not wholly > > developed a life for ourselves. We both need to back off and > > each one of us make a life for ourselves. > > May the rest of our wonderful lives unfold like the ceremony > > of both of us cutting the ropes for each other. Go aboard our > > own respective boat and allow each other to move towards our > futures. > > You're always in my heart, Greg. > > Love, > > Mom > > > > It goes along with what I would expect in an email from her > > but with an improvement: she didn't rage and call me names and > > directly blame me and tell me how mentally ill I am. I can't > > tell you how much her 1-5 phone calls a day about her, her cat, > > the abuse she was taking from her SO, her rages, distortion > > campaigns, calling the police and telling them that I was trying > > to kill her with a knife (they showed up and she was pointing to > > the floor and saying see there is the knife, and there was > > nothing there!), all helped keep me from killing myself for 21 > > years. What a Crock!! I think she is mad as hell at me that I > > went n/c. This is how I really see the letter: > > > > Dear Greg, > > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. (How dare you > > leave me, no matter what I do, you crazy Bast*$A%) This letter > > is written in love for both of us. This " in love for both of us " > > seems really emotionally incestuous to me. It's like a Freudian > > slip using " in " instead of " with love " (You don't love me > > anymore, and I am not going to face my fear of being unlovable, > > so I'll cut you out of my life) > > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > > always hoping to keep you(myself) alive and to share your (My) > > pain. So you can fix me (not possible). > > I believe within my heart (What you said made sense to my > > head, so I will distort it from my feelings) from what you said > > yesterday about being a surrogate husband to me you are saying > > that I am taking your life away from you. (I don't know if this > > is subtle blame?? or what?) My intentions have always been to > > give you (Myself) life,(and use you to do this) not take it away > > from you(Myself). Out of fear (of having to face myself and the > > consequences of what I have done to you and being alone), I have > > done this for 21 years for fear of losing you (Myself) to an act > > of suicide. > > By both of us (Me) acting this way, both of us (I) have not > > wholly developed a life for ourselves (Myself) (I have enslaved > > you to me since you were born - how dare you free yourself). We > > both need to back off and each one of us make a life for > > ourselves. (I had to put this sentence in here b/c you already > > rejected/abandoned me) > > May the rest of our (My) wonderful lives (life) unfold like > > the ceremony (more emotional incestuous crap = ceremony?) of > > both of us cutting the ropes for each other. (both of us cutting > > the ropes for each other? This just sounds sick to me) Go aboard > > our own respective boat (Notice it's not plural= boats) and > > allow each other to move towards our futures. (allow??? > > ownership?? The wording is just gross). > > You're always in my heart, Greg. (I'll make you pay if it's > > the last thing I do in this life) > > Love, (I hate your F'ing Guts) > > Mom (Saint) > > > > What do you guys think? It made me nauseaus, especially the > > last part. I think she is hoping for a Tag-you're it. I'm not > > going to respond to her email. I don't need a mother now. > > Since I have read so many of your posts about your nada's an > > fada's, you guys have helped me to see certain people, > > especially my mother more clearly. Most importantly, I see > > myself more clearly and how I am already getting myself > > back/becoming myself. Thanks for your support. > > > > Greg. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 <<What do you guys think? It made me nauseaus, especially the last part. I think she is hoping for a Tag-you're it. I'm not going to respond to her email.>> Greg, I think your assessment is spot-on. What I read in that e-mail is like a recently dismissed employee coming back to the former boss and saying , " Wait, no *I'm not fired, *you're fired. " Couched in the best " motherly " love a BPD can bring, naturally. It does have the overtones of a break-up letter to a former lover too. Ick. She *does want a response from you, and I'm with you...don't respond. It won't help and will just continue the game. FWIW, I've been rare contact for 6 years now, and I still dread going to the mailbox each day, because I wonder what kind of mail I might receive from nada. She tends to be very quiet in person, but so verbose with a pen and piece of paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 <<After going n/c with nada I received a birthday card in very shaky handwriting >> That's so eerie. I can tell when my nada is particularly low because her handwriting is shaky and the lines in the letter are crooked. It's almost like she can't put enough pressure on the pen. Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Thank you, , for your views and support on such a " simple " email. Isn't it interesting how we all know this code language. We could write a book! I feel for you and that your nada uses the pen and paper, that can be trickier than straight verbal sometimes. Share it here if you want. The Love, Caring, Support, Insight, and Truth in this room nullify their crap. All my best, Greg. Gr8lander@... wrote: <<What do you guys think? It made me nauseaus, especially the last part. I think she is hoping for a Tag-you're it. I'm not going to respond to her email.>> Greg, I think your assessment is spot-on. What I read in that e-mail is like a recently dismissed employee coming back to the former boss and saying , " Wait, no *I'm not fired, *you're fired. " Couched in the best " motherly " love a BPD can bring, naturally. It does have the overtones of a break-up letter to a former lover too. Ick. She *does want a response from you, and I'm with you...don't respond. It won't help and will just continue the game. FWIW, I've been rare contact for 6 years now, and I still dread going to the mailbox each day, because I wonder what kind of mail I might receive from nada. She tends to be very quiet in person, but so verbose with a pen and piece of paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Fresabird, <Stepping briefly out from the shadows of lurkerland> That is a great analogy that speaks accurately of what it is like to break away from our non-parents. The great thing about it is that it eloquently illustrates that there is a clear explanation for the soldier's limited mobility, it is entirely normal to experience pain after being released and working through the pain is an important and positive first step to healing. Well worth the cost of getting out of the box. I will certainly borrow this at some point...thank you! Cheers, Sakura > > > > > > Dear Greg, > > > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. This letter is > > > written in love for both of us. > > > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > > > always hoping to keep you alive and to share your pain. > > > I believe within my heart from what you said yesterday about > > > being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am taking > > > your life away from you. My intentions have always been to give > > > you life, not take it away from you. Out of fear, I have done > > > this for 21 years for fear of losing you to an act of suicide. > > > By both of us acting this way, both of us have not wholly > > > developed a life for ourselves. We both need to back off and > > > each one of us make a life for ourselves. > > > May the rest of our wonderful lives unfold like the ceremony > > > of both of us cutting the ropes for each other. Go aboard our > > > own respective boat and allow each other to move towards our > > futures. > > > You're always in my heart, Greg. > > > Love, > > > Mom > > > > > > It goes along with what I would expect in an email from her > > > but with an improvement: she didn't rage and call me names and > > > directly blame me and tell me how mentally ill I am. I can't > > > tell you how much her 1-5 phone calls a day about her, her cat, > > > the abuse she was taking from her SO, her rages, distortion > > > campaigns, calling the police and telling them that I was trying > > > to kill her with a knife (they showed up and she was pointing to > > > the floor and saying see there is the knife, and there was > > > nothing there!), all helped keep me from killing myself for 21 > > > years. What a Crock!! I think she is mad as hell at me that I > > > went n/c. This is how I really see the letter: > > > > > > Dear Greg, > > > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. (How dare you > > > leave me, no matter what I do, you crazy Bast*$A%) This letter > > > is written in love for both of us. This " in love for both of us " > > > seems really emotionally incestuous to me. It's like a Freudian > > > slip using " in " instead of " with love " (You don't love me > > > anymore, and I am not going to face my fear of being unlovable, > > > so I'll cut you out of my life) > > > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > > > always hoping to keep you(myself) alive and to share your (My) > > > pain. So you can fix me (not possible). > > > I believe within my heart (What you said made sense to my > > > head, so I will distort it from my feelings) from what you said > > > yesterday about being a surrogate husband to me you are saying > > > that I am taking your life away from you. (I don't know if this > > > is subtle blame?? or what?) My intentions have always been to > > > give you (Myself) life,(and use you to do this) not take it away > > > from you(Myself). Out of fear (of having to face myself and the > > > consequences of what I have done to you and being alone), I have > > > done this for 21 years for fear of losing you (Myself) to an act > > > of suicide. > > > By both of us (Me) acting this way, both of us (I) have not > > > wholly developed a life for ourselves (Myself) (I have enslaved > > > you to me since you were born - how dare you free yourself). We > > > both need to back off and each one of us make a life for > > > ourselves. (I had to put this sentence in here b/c you already > > > rejected/abandoned me) > > > May the rest of our (My) wonderful lives (life) unfold like > > > the ceremony (more emotional incestuous crap = ceremony?) of > > > both of us cutting the ropes for each other. (both of us cutting > > > the ropes for each other? This just sounds sick to me) Go aboard > > > our own respective boat (Notice it's not plural= boats) and > > > allow each other to move towards our futures. (allow??? > > > ownership?? The wording is just gross). > > > You're always in my heart, Greg. (I'll make you pay if it's > > > the last thing I do in this life) > > > Love, (I hate your F'ing Guts) > > > Mom (Saint) > > > > > > What do you guys think? It made me nauseaus, especially the > > > last part. I think she is hoping for a Tag-you're it. I'm not > > > going to respond to her email. I don't need a mother now. > > > Since I have read so many of your posts about your nada's an > > > fada's, you guys have helped me to see certain people, > > > especially my mother more clearly. Most importantly, I see > > > myself more clearly and how I am already getting myself > > > back/becoming myself. Thanks for your support. > > > > > > Greg. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > > > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Hey Greg -- I loved your version of your mom's letter -- so true! It struck me how some of these BP nadas (my own nada included) love to wrap themselves in beautiful sounding words. My nada is constantly blasting her opinion through platitudes she finds in the paper or Reader's Digest, or whatever. If it's particularly provoking, she'll write it out on a piece of paper -- with double underlines on certain words -- and post it on the refrigerator. It's as if she's so afraid to speak for herself, to have her own thoughts, that she latches on to others' views (usually extreme ones -- as if to shout " SO THERE!! HA HA!! LOOK AT ME! I'M STRONG!! " ) If anything, I think she's trying to convince herself that she is strong and she has views. They're just never her own. One time, the husband of a good friend of hers died. I was over for a visit, and she had bought a sympathy card (she never writes her own thoughts in a note -- it's always a preprinted card.).....She hands me the empty card and a pen and says " You write so well -- will you write out a sympathetic note for me? " .... I should have said " Is the widow grading the notes? " . Now it strikes me that the woman couldn't even write a note to a friend (much less a phone call or personal visit) who had suffered a loss. Mom doesn't do feelings well -- death especially. Death really sends her into a downward spiral. Having me write the note just added an extra layer of insulation for her. Pathetic, really. It just shows how she doesn't even have her own persona, nor does she know how to conduct a real relationship. > > Dear Greg, > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. This letter is written in love for both of us. > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years always hoping to keep you alive and to share your pain. > I believe within my heart from what you said yesterday about being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am taking your life away from you. My intentions have always been to give you life, not take it away from you. Out of fear, I have done this for 21 years for fear of losing you to an act of suicide. > By both of us acting this way, both of us have not wholly developed a life for ourselves. We both need to back off and each one of us make a life for ourselves. > May the rest of our wonderful lives unfold like the ceremony of both of us cutting the ropes for each other. Go aboard our own respective boat and allow each other to move towards our futures. > You're always in my heart, Greg. > Love, > Mom > > It goes along with what I would expect in an email from her but with an improvement: she didn't rage and call me names and directly blame me and tell me how mentally ill I am. I can't tell you how much her 1-5 phone calls a day about her, her cat, the abuse she was taking from her SO, her rages, distortion campaigns, calling the police and telling them that I was trying to kill her with a knife (they showed up and she was pointing to the floor and saying see there is the knife, and there was nothing there!), all helped keep me from killing myself for 21 years. What a Crock!! I think she is mad as hell at me that I went n/c. This is how I really see the letter: > > Dear Greg, > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. (How dare you leave me, no matter what I do, you crazy Bast*$A%) This letter is written in love for both of us. This " in love for both of us " seems really emotionally incestuous to me. It's like a Freudian slip using " in " instead of " with love " (You don't love me anymore, and I am not going to face my fear of being unlovable, so I'll cut you out of my life) > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years always hoping to keep you(myself) alive and to share your (My) pain. So you can fix me (not possible). > I believe within my heart (What you said made sense to my head, so I will distort it from my feelings) from what you said yesterday about being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am taking your life away from you. (I don't know if this is subtle blame?? or what?) My intentions have always been to give you (Myself) life,(and use you to do this) not take it away from you (Myself). Out of fear (of having to face myself and the consequences of what I have done to you and being alone), I have done this for 21 years for fear of losing you (Myself) to an act of suicide. > By both of us (Me) acting this way, both of us (I) have not wholly developed a life for ourselves (Myself) (I have enslaved you to me since you were born - how dare you free yourself). We both need to back off and each one of us make a life for ourselves. (I had to put this sentence in here b/c you already rejected/abandoned me) > May the rest of our (My) wonderful lives (life) unfold like the ceremony (more emotional incestuous crap = ceremony?) of both of us cutting the ropes for each other. (both of us cutting the ropes for each other? This just sounds sick to me) Go aboard our own respective boat (Notice it's not plural= boats) and allow each other to move towards our futures. (allow??? ownership?? The wording is just gross). > You're always in my heart, Greg. (I'll make you pay if it's the last thing I do in this life) > Love, (I hate your F'ing Guts) > Mom (Saint) > > What do you guys think? It made me nauseaus, especially the last part. I think she is hoping for a Tag-you're it. I'm not going to respond to her email. I don't need a mother now. Since I have read so many of your posts about your nada's an fada's, you guys have helped me to see certain people, especially my mother more clearly. Most importantly, I see myself more clearly and how I am already getting myself back/becoming myself. Thanks for your support. > > Greg. > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Thanks for the support, . It really brightened my day. Validation is so important in the healing process. Bp's behavior and especially their letter communications can be so coded with " crap " that it can leave one wondering What the Hell just happened? I know that you went n/c on the 10th -CONGRATULATIONS!! Since they don't usually respect boundries, feel free to post what she sends your way in the group. We're here for you, too. Hang in there...the first three weeks were mind blowers for me, but each day I got a little stronger and got to know a little more about myself. I am so excited for you! Take Great Care, Greg. j1mcninc wrote: Freaking brilliant Greg, Reading your posts gives me a lot of hope for myself, I'm working very hard to get where you are. I had a complete realization when I read your interpretation of your mothers email; you saw it for what it really is. I've never been able to do that, when reading Nada's letters I'd feel every downward emotion on the spectrum, just awful; but the letter would read fine and not contain anything that would be damaging to the untrained eye. The truth is I see the emotional incest, blackmail. I got that dirty feeling when reading your Nada's letter, when you translated its meaning you helped me understand that all these years she has been bombarding me with this " crap " . I had no idea, neither did anyone else. Here's to no contact Greg. Cheers, > > > > Dear Greg, > > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. This letter is > written in love for both of us. > > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > always hoping to keep you alive and to share your pain. > > I believe within my heart from what you said yesterday about > being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am taking your > life away from you. My intentions have always been to give you > life, not take it away from you. Out of fear, I have done this for > 21 years for fear of losing you to an act of suicide. > > By both of us acting this way, both of us have not wholly > developed a life for ourselves. We both need to back off and each > one of us make a life for ourselves. > > May the rest of our wonderful lives unfold like the ceremony of > both of us cutting the ropes for each other. Go aboard our own > respective boat and allow each other to move towards our futures. > > You're always in my heart, Greg. > > Love, > > Mom > > > > It goes along with what I would expect in an email from her but > with an improvement: she didn't rage and call me names and directly > blame me and tell me how mentally ill I am. I can't tell you how > much her 1-5 phone calls a day about her, her cat, the abuse she was > taking from her SO, her rages, distortion campaigns, calling the > police and telling them that I was trying to kill her with a knife > (they showed up and she was pointing to the floor and saying see > there is the knife, and there was nothing there!), all helped keep > me from killing myself for 21 years. What a Crock!! I think she is > mad as hell at me that I went n/c. This is how I really see the > letter: > > > > Dear Greg, > > I believe we both are under misunderstandings. (How dare you > leave me, no matter what I do, you crazy Bast*$A%) This letter is > written in love for both of us. This " in love for both of us " seems > really emotionally incestuous to me. It's like a Freudian slip > using " in " instead of " with love " (You don't love me anymore, and I > am not going to face my fear of being unlovable, so I'll cut you out > of my life) > > I've called you so many, many times over the past 21 years > always hoping to keep you(myself) alive and to share your (My) > pain. So you can fix me (not possible). > > I believe within my heart (What you said made sense to my head, > so I will distort it from my feelings) from what you said yesterday > about being a surrogate husband to me you are saying that I am > taking your life away from you. (I don't know if this is subtle > blame?? or what?) My intentions have always been to give you > (Myself) life,(and use you to do this) not take it away from you > (Myself). Out of fear (of having to face myself and the > consequences of what I have done to you and being alone), I have > done this for 21 years for fear of losing you (Myself) to an act of > suicide. > > By both of us (Me) acting this way, both of us (I) have not > wholly developed a life for ourselves (Myself) (I have enslaved you > to me since you were born - how dare you free yourself). We both > need to back off and each one of us make a life for ourselves. (I > had to put this sentence in here b/c you already rejected/abandoned > me) > > May the rest of our (My) wonderful lives (life) unfold like the > ceremony (more emotional incestuous crap = ceremony?) of both of us > cutting the ropes for each other. (both of us cutting the ropes for > each other? This just sounds sick to me) Go aboard our own > respective boat (Notice it's not plural= boats) and allow each other > to move towards our futures. (allow??? ownership?? The wording is > just gross). > > You're always in my heart, Greg. (I'll make you pay if it's the > last thing I do in this life) > > Love, (I hate your F'ing Guts) > > Mom (Saint) > > > > What do you guys think? It made me nauseaus, especially the > last part. I think she is hoping for a Tag-you're it. I'm not > going to respond to her email. I don't need a mother now. Since I > have read so many of your posts about your nada's an fada's, you > guys have helped me to see certain people, especially my mother more > clearly. Most importantly, I see myself more clearly and how I am > already getting myself back/becoming myself. Thanks for your > support. > > > > Greg. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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