Re: newcomer, so painful to read my life in your messages

[Guest guest]

Bewildered,

I am pretty quiet on this board usually, but I can understand what you are

going through. My nada is diagnosed BPD, and I didn't even have a clue what that

was until about three months ago. I chose to go nc after she nearly destroyed my

marriage and my life. There are three reasons I have not had a complete

breakdown.

1. My husband and daughter. I love them more than anything, and I feel like

I need to do nc not just for me, but for their sakes, too.

2. i have one hell of a support system. My in-law's(both DH's adopted

family and his bio family) friends, and this board have helped me immensely.

There were times when I felt like I was going to self-destruct because I felt

so much like I was actually the bad person that my nada and stepfada and FOO

believe me to be. It has taken a lot of work to get past that, and honestly, I

am still working on that.

3. Talking about it. I, like many KO's, was conditioned to believe that my

emotions and feelings were invalid compared to that of my nada. I wasn't allowed

to show emotions or share my feelings, because nada would break down and either

scream at me or cry about how she was a horrible mother or that she was suicidal

because she was such a failure or whatnot. I was, and still am, a stuffer. I

stuff my feelings down until I can't keep it in any more. The biggest thing that

has helped me has been talking.

Being nc is not easy. Especially when you feel you must cut yourself off

from the FOO. It makes you feel isolated, and bad, and ashamed. It is so

important to look at the reasons you are nc. Is it because you cannot allow

yourself to endure repeated bashing from your nada? Is it for your peace of

mind? What is most important to you?

I think that if you can stick it our in the group, and learn from

everyone's experiences, like so many of us have, you will benefit. I do not know

if you are in therapy right now, but therapy can be a big benefit.

Try to hang in there. It is very hard sometimes to come out of the FOG.

bty919836 wrote:

I thought i would be relieved to find people who would understand my

life with my mother (undiagnosed BDP/narcissist i think). But I am

finding it so painful just to be in here that I can hardly see to

type, through crying. Please someone keep me talking and keep me here

long enough to get past my horror and shame at admitting all this

stuff to myself cos I am near breaking point with it all. Obviously

facing it here just shows up how much denial I have used to cope.

Thought i was much further on and so much more grown up than this. My

strategy for coping has been nc for several years now, but can't get

past the shame and guilt that created. Can't bear the isolation from

my entire family who either choose to believe that I am the villain or

are so scared of her that they won't dare risk her wrath by talking to

me. I couldn't withstand how bad it had got, i wasn't strong enough,

but I can't live with the consequences either. Every choice is a bad

choice.

Why do I feel like such a bad person when I KNOW in my head she

treated me like ****? Sorry to bleat, I'm just so shocked at my

reaction since I found this place.. I'm 45, nc for about 7 years now.

bewildered

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to “Understanding the Borderline

Mother” (Lawson) and “Surviving the Borderline Parent,” (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bewildered,

I say these things with Deepest Empathy. You WILL get through

this even though it may feel like your world is Imploding now. You

must understand that what you call Denial was in fact a Very

Important Self Defence Mechanism against the crushing realities of

your life. It was and is an absolute necessity to your survival.

If you have not already done so PLEASE find a supportive Therapist

to help you through these dark times.

Sorry to use this cliche but " If you can feel it you can heal it " ,

realy does apply here. The shock of recognition can feel

overwhelming; especially in a society that holds the family and

motherhood as sacorsanct.

Believe me whether you realize it or not you have started your

healing process. Denial, Shock, Fear etc. are all part of the

grieving continuum. You are grieving now for a mother and a

childhood " that Might have been " and in reality " should have

been " .

You are in my thoughts and prayers,

Sheila

>

> I thought i would be relieved to find people who would understand

my

> life with my mother (undiagnosed BDP/narcissist i think). But I am

> finding it so painful just to be in here that I can hardly see to

> type, through crying. Please someone keep me talking and keep me

here

> long enough to get past my horror and shame at admitting all this

> stuff to myself cos I am near breaking point with it all.

Obviously

> facing it here just shows up how much denial I have used to cope.

>

> Thought i was much further on and so much more grown up than

this. My

> strategy for coping has been nc for several years now, but can't

get

> past the shame and guilt that created. Can't bear the isolation

from

> my entire family who either choose to believe that I am the

villain or

> are so scared of her that they won't dare risk her wrath by

talking to

> me. I couldn't withstand how bad it had got, i wasn't strong

enough,

> but I can't live with the consequences either. Every choice is a

bad

> choice.

>

> Why do I feel like such a bad person when I KNOW in my head she

> treated me like ****? Sorry to bleat, I'm just so shocked at my

> reaction since I found this place.. I'm 45, nc for about 7 years

now.

>

> bewildered

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your prompt replies. I made myself tell my husband about

you all and how bad it made me feel, because deep down I know I have

the first glimmer of hope I have ever felt. He will gently keep

pushing me back on-line, so i don't give up.

He is sooo great and his family - his parents are so NORMAL, it has

been so easy to give and take with them, though sadly my F-i-L died

last year. I miss my own family so much though. Going nc has cost

me all but one cousin. Not so much regular contact, but being ABLE to

see people, pick up the phone etc. If my nada gets wind of any

contact she emotionally batters the person who dared give me the time

of day, till they cut me off again. The last time this happened

blatantly was when my father died three years ago. His sisters (my

aunts of course, one of whom is my godmother) and I felt we could

finally be in touch, without any aggro landing in my dad's lap.

Contact lasted less than a week. My nada telephoned them every hour,

all night long, screaming abuse at them and into their answer phone if

they didn't answer. They could not turn off because they are quite

infirm and rely on being in touch with each other. Rather than change

numbers or anything they said they were too old to cope with the

anguish nada was causing them, " lets just leave things as they were. "

But I NEEDED THEM. It always ends with me bleating about how unfair

it all is, like some three year old child. BUT IT IS UNFAIR. They are

not even her blood relatives AND she has nothing whatsoever to do with

them herself. She just couldn't bear for anyone to be warm to me

because she isn't speaking to me.

You ask why I went nc. It was out of desparation. At the risk of

going on, it would help to offload a bit, it's not easy to say in a

short way though.

Age 30 I first realised that maybe me/my brother were not the cause of

all the problems (one of us was usually in favour at the total

expense and exclusion of the other). I had had some counselling in my

late 20's to help me get over the physical bullying from my brother as

we grew up. (He was later diagnosed with bipolar disorder)Bits came

out then, that started me questioning. With that to support me, I

tried strategies to distance myself emotionally etc. but as I gained

any successes in not getting vacuumed in (love that phrase) she became

more erratic and malicious. I kept going to see her with my children,

but she took a new twist on the 'withdrawal of favour' tool. She

utterly ignored me - even when i spoke to her directly and in

expectation of response, except to denegrate my parenting (in front of

the kids). She focussed all her attention on my kids which really

scared me, hiding sweets inside her clothing for them to hunt (!!!!!)

holding £5 notes in the air demanding a big enough kiss to earn it

etc. Plus all the stuff i had grown up with, guarenteed to make them

feel guilty if they didn't play 'happy grandchildren' with her. She

would for eg collect lots of cardboard boxes for them to build with.

If they didn't want to, she would do 'how ungrateful, after all the

work I put in, and... I don't complain but.... you know I'm not as

well as I was.... but you told me that you liked this I did it for you

(blatant lie) etc etc'. They looked to me for help, to get them away

from the confusion and I would be sick to my stomach because I

couldn't confront her. I asked my dad to, but I just got it in the

neck for lying to her face and pretending everything was fine when

clearly I despised her all along. How two faced, shallow etc Why did

I even bother putting myself out to visit when i hated her so much

(good question).

Final straw was simple. She arranged a treat for them (not me)-

having asked me first. I had clarified the details before agreeing, as

they were still quite little. The day before, letters arrived for them

telling them about it, including something i had on many occasions

specifically said no to. No details, but as she is infirm it would

have introduced the risk of physical danger to my toddler, the way she

had set up the treat. Not yet insurmaountable, till i tried to ask

her about it on the phone. What a nightmare. 'She HAD told me all

about it and i HAD agreed, Dad witnessed it'. Why was i being so

twisted, I always had to spoil things, I always had been unkind and

ungrateful 'You're quick to use me to babysit when it suits you but

can't bear to see your children happy unless you are the centre of

attention' etc etc . 'You are such a user' 'I was going to rob the

children of this treat when she sees so little of them'. From what i

have read on here, I don't need to elaborate the actual direction of

the conversation further. By the end we were both screaming. I said

loads of stuff that i had not intended to, that she could (and did)

twist and throw back at me. I was really broken up after that. Seeing

I might just be getting out of her control (if only she had realised!)

she would bypass me and start on the next generation. At least that's

how it felt. And it seemed she was going to fight me tooth and nail

toi succeed. I ignored her for a long while. Returned post etc. Then

I tried to present an explanation in a letter, as I couldn't summon

the courage to do it in person, that my needs and rights were equally

valid with her own, that my parenting rights had to outway her wishes

as a grandparent if we disagreed over something. Her replies bore no

resemblence to my letters at all, it was really confusing and

destabilising. She was vehement and spiteful about every thing that I

had done to hurt her since I was a toddler, writing 10 sides at a

time. Overwhelming and so destructive. It messed with my head a lot

and the more I tried to reply I don't remember things that way... can

we look at how wecan forgive each other all the misunderstandings and

move on the worse it got. She had done nothing wrong, all the

sacrifices etc blah, blah.....

This was just before my 40th. For my birthday I received a bag of

ashes in the post with my birth date and date of my 40th written on,

like date of death. No explanation, just this dirty little packet in

the post. my shock was deep. It made me ill with despair and I felt

really frightened that she might try to harm me. OF COURSE SHE DIDN'T,

SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE MEANS TO PHYSICALLY HURT ME, SO WHY WAS I

SOOOOOOOO SCARED? She kept sending money for the KIDS birthdays, £5

for one child, £10 for another £20 for the third!!!!! I intercepted

the post and decided to keep the amount secret from them, split it

three ways each time and bank it for them. She never wrote to me

again after that. It hurt so much not seeing my dad, but he would

always back her up. I tried to see them one more time, to talk, but

as soon as i mentioned 'my perception was that....' and 'it hurt when

i thought that....' my dad called me a bitch and threw me out. I had

spent weeks carefully crafting what i needed to say, to be as

non-blaming as possible (probably failing) and got nowhere.

This is getting too long isn't it, but now i've started i don't know

where to stop....

Two years later my dad got ill. The nightmare began again with a

phone call from nada. I'll post that another time i think.

You will perhaps understand me if i say that as I write this, i am now

failing completely to ignore my nada screaming at me in my head, i am

beginning to get really screwed up for talking to you. Does this make

any sense? I will NOT delete any of it. I can't. I just don't know

how to tell what is a legitimate moan and what is selfindulgent crap.

Even though I'm beginning to feel like i am being a nuisance and

wasting everybodies time bleating on about MY PROBLEMS again. 'When

will i realise that the world does not revolve around what I feel all

the time?' Does that phrase strike a chord with anyone? Why should

you all want to know all about my boring nitty gritty anyway? It's

hard to actually believe strangers would take the time to read my

emotional self-pitying drivel - as my nada would call it. 'And as for

the betrayal' she screams in my head ' - we always brought you up to

understand that family business is PRIVATE, why was it her misfortune

to have a daughter who insisted on parading her poor raw emotions in

public for everyone to see and judge. How could I be doing that to

her AGAIN.' 'What gave me the right to expose her pain to the world?'

PLEASE TELL ME I AM NOT GOING MAD. I have never shared this inner

ranting with ANYONE before and I feel kind of vulnerable right now.

How can she be here in my head still, when we have not spoken for so

long? How do i get free of her? I have had counselling, but not

specifically about this, becuse it is only now that i suspect she fits

this diagnosis. She has so successfully conditioned me to see talking

about her as a specific and unforgivable betrayal that I feel quite

ill now. sorry. I do not have a problem with sharing in other areas.

I have a health problem and have recieved (and hopefully given) much

support on-line for that.

Bewildered

>

> Stay here and keep talking! When I found this board (very recently) and

> found out my mother is also undiag. BPD- I was in shock.

[Guest guest]

Thankyou, thankyou thankyou.

[Guest guest]

>PLEASE TELL ME I AM NOT GOING MAD. I have never shared this inner

> ranting with ANYONE before and I feel kind of vulnerable right now.

> How can she be here in my head still, when we have not spoken for so

> long? How do i get free of her? I have had counselling, but not

> specifically about this, becuse it is only now that i suspect she fits

> this diagnosis. She has so successfully conditioned me to see talking

> about her as a specific and unforgivable betrayal that I feel quite

> ill now. sorry. I do not have a problem with sharing in other areas.

You are not going mad. You are just a prisoner of a whole life worth

of conditioning and (can we call it) brainwashing. Like you, I used

to replay things in my mind and chase them around in circles trying to

convince myself that I didn't need to feel so guilty. I did though.

The first time I posted here I felt terrible. It felt like a huge

betrayal. I spend the first 60 years of my life being tired all the

time. I knew it was related to my relationship with my mother because

whenever I spent time with her, I came home so exhausted that I

couldn't cook a meal or do anything requiring brain power. For years

my sister and I described it as having the marrow sucked from our

bones or the blood sucked from our veins. We both would feel so

exhausted. I was 60 years old before I discovered BPD and realized

that it described my mother to a T. Now two years later, I am here to

tell you that though it was difficult and tiring at times, learning

what I have learned has set me free. The Truth WILL set you free. It

takes time for the child inside you to understand emotionally what

your own intellect tells you. But after telling myself over and over

that I have a right to be happy and I am not responsible for her

misery I finally believe it. Even the child inside me believes it.

Stay with us. You will find validation here. You have established a

separation from your mother and father. Now you need to start being

good to yourself and getting rid of those messages in your head. A

good therapist who understands BPD and what it does to a child of a BP

parent could be a great help for you. Make sure you do your homework

and get one who does understand BPD. This is just a suggestion.

I feel for you and wish I was closer to give you a big hug of

reassurance. Yes, it is unbelievable how many of us are out there who

really do understand and believe you. Welcome, Dee

[Guest guest]

I too have to say don't worry about feeling GUILT about posting here and

betraying your mother, or your family. I feel the same way. But as the

stories roll on over this board, I realize there is no way that this is made

up. She is unfortunately ill and a total case of BPD.

Don't worry this board is anonymous- it isn't like anyone knows who you and

your family are. So just keep on ranting and LET IT OUT. I have the

unfortunate experience of learning to stuff it down. In fact the more I

realized something was wrong, the more I stuffed it adn pretended nothing

was wrong. I went to a therapist for the first time in my life earlier this

year b/c I became bulimic. This is an issue that is caused by having

feelings that are unexpressed. As I realized this wasn't b/c I watched too

much tv and wanted to look like a celebrity, I realized there is something

lurking that is WRONG. When the therapist questioned about my family I was

super protective. We are fine, perfect, a painting of perfection. I WAS

the bad one. Couldn't the therapist see that? She wouldn't back up though,

she kept asking questions about my family.

She also did one thing that was very distinct in learning about my mother.

She said Bridget please set boundaries with your mother right now. Tell her

that she is not allowed to talk to you about food, weight loss, body image,

exercise, recipes or anything related from now on. This is important b/c we

have a bond over food- she did weight watchers and always gave me tips on

how to shape up (even though I was always a reasonable weight). Guess

what? My mother said she understood my therapist's request and FIVE MINUTES

LATER said but you know what I am doing so great on weight watchers. I mean

I have an eating disorder too, but I wouldn't go to therapy for it. We all

eat too much so just do weight watchers and you'll be fine. If you want I

can send you some of the new weight watchers booklets- they have this new

program called core. I AM NOT KIDDING. At the time I felt like oh she is

my mother what does this therapist know and I just let her keep it up. I

didn't tell my therapist about this- I covered for my mom. Then at our 8th

session something happened- I was telling a story about my mother blowing up

at the restaurant and my dad telling us to just carry on until she collected

herself in the bathroom- even though she just yelled (in line at a very

popular and busy restaurant) " F*ck you, you are a spoiled brat, go on and

abandon me to live your fancy life with champagne, and better people and

drive your stupid BMW, leave your piece of trash mother here to rot " . So I

told the therapist this and she said omg- Bridget your mother is borderline

personality. That was my last therapy visit b/c I felt so ashamed to go

there and trash my own mother and family. I justified it- maybe it is

menopause or something.

After that I didn't go back to therapy, I stopped bulimia out of shere

willpower. But my mother's behavior continued and her episodes became

consistent. Each time I traveled 300 miles to see her, or vice versa she

would blow up within minutes or days. My little brother flat out said we

need to learn to walk on eggshells b/c anything will make her blow. We live

in fear of her blowing up and ruining our time t/g- AND NOW it always

happens. This last one over Thanksgiving was the worst yet. She ran to her

room to sob after a huge blowup just minutes b/f I was set to leave. She

yelled at me for pretty much no reaason (as usual). It was like- oh have a

nice long drive to Chicago, and then a nice long flight to LA. Too bad you

didn't just live in the neighborhood. And I responded- oh well, it's okay I

love it there. I'll be home again soon. And she took that as her cue to

just rage: she started the crying and yelling and beligerant accusations.

She was like- I don't know why you have to live out there and think you are

better than us. We are your family. Why do you need to leave us? Is it

b/c we are trash? Because I am only a teacher and you think you so special

with your special job and fancy car? I was like- um no. Then she said and

you know what you really are just a gold digger and a whore. You are

friends with that 50 year old man and that is just so whore-like. Bridget

why would you do that? Why do you think he wants to be friends with you and

M? Now this is sick- b/c he is a family friend (my friend M's uncle) and

she was flat out saying I was a whore for hanging with him (so untrue of

course). That made me feel dirty and sad. So I said Mom don't be sad you

can come and see me. Dishrag dad joined us and sat in a rocking chair (even

though he is 55) and just quietly rocked. She said your father wants to

come and see you, but where will we stay? I said I will pay- but she was

like we don't need you to pay. Why are you abandoning us? Then she

addressed him and said do you want to stay in some rich person's house? Do

you want someone's charity? And my dad had to say no I would rather pay for

a hotel myself. So she put him down as well, saying yes, your father works

and he would like to pay for his own place to stay. This just confused me

more b/c I didn't mean to insult him. Then he just looked at me and said we

love you very much and we miss you and she just ran to her room. When I had

to leave I went up there and she would barely hug me goodbye.

Since then I relapsed. I got back to LA and a week passed with me feeling

bad about betraying my family and moving away and then my old behavior came

back. Now I have to go to an emergency therapy appointment on Tuesday. I

am hopeful I can get it all out this time. I am jealous of those of you

that can cry. I cannot. I am still living in a fantasy world where my

mother isn't sick.

So please don't be afraid- keep posting. The only person you betray by not

posting is yourself.

Bridget

Finally at the end of our 7th session she went oh my god- your mother is

borderline personality. I freaked out. I never went back. How dare she

attack my mother. How dare she suggest mental illness. I am the only mess

up- I mean hello I am in therapy for an eating disorder.

>

>

>

>

> >PLEASE TELL ME I AM NOT GOING MAD. I have never shared this inner

> > ranting with ANYONE before and I feel kind of vulnerable right now.

> > How can she be here in my head still, when we have not spoken for so

> > long? How do i get free of her? I have had counselling, but not

> > specifically about this, becuse it is only now that i suspect she fits

> > this diagnosis. She has so successfully conditioned me to see talking

> > about her as a specific and unforgivable betrayal that I feel quite

> > ill now. sorry. I do not have a problem with sharing in other areas.

>

> You are not going mad. You are just a prisoner of a whole life worth

> of conditioning and (can we call it) brainwashing. Like you, I used

> to replay things in my mind and chase them around in circles trying to

> convince myself that I didn't need to feel so guilty. I did though.

> The first time I posted here I felt terrible. It felt like a huge

> betrayal. I spend the first 60 years of my life being tired all the

> time. I knew it was related to my relationship with my mother because

> whenever I spent time with her, I came home so exhausted that I

> couldn't cook a meal or do anything requiring brain power. For years

> my sister and I described it as having the marrow sucked from our

> bones or the blood sucked from our veins. We both would feel so

> exhausted. I was 60 years old before I discovered BPD and realized

> that it described my mother to a T. Now two years later, I am here to

> tell you that though it was difficult and tiring at times, learning

> what I have learned has set me free. The Truth WILL set you free. It

> takes time for the child inside you to understand emotionally what

> your own intellect tells you. But after telling myself over and over

> that I have a right to be happy and I am not responsible for her

> misery I finally believe it. Even the child inside me believes it.

> Stay with us. You will find validation here. You have established a

> separation from your mother and father. Now you need to start being

> good to yourself and getting rid of those messages in your head. A

> good therapist who understands BPD and what it does to a child of a BP

> parent could be a great help for you. Make sure you do your homework

> and get one who does understand BPD. This is just a suggestion.

>

> I feel for you and wish I was closer to give you a big hug of

> reassurance. Yes, it is unbelievable how many of us are out there who

> really do understand and believe you. Welcome, Dee

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

> @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond

> ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

> () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

> Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

> find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

> and the SWOE Workbook.

>

>

>

>