Re: What was the best thing you did for yourselves?

[Guest guest]

Hi Trish,

The thing that has impacted my life more than any other was my choice, more

than 20 years ago, to keep my children away from my parents. BP-nada emits

her own venom; but my dishrag-dad's (self-serving) philosophy is contagious as

well.

The 'resolution' of my FOO/my siblings, dad and even extended family/to

accept, comply with, and even defend my BP-nada's surreal world hasn't

contaminated my children...the first generation of my family that can think

clearly,

and is optimistic about their future. Seeing their grandparents once every few

years, they have each thanked me for protecting them from the 'family

craziness'. I am at peace with my choice of no contact; my son's are worth the

price of choosing to be 'ousted' by my FOO.

If there is any regret, it is that I didn't have the

courage/strength/self-esteem to enforce no-contact at an earlier age. But, it

is what it is; I am

consoled that the motivation to reclaim my own life came to me at all.

Carol

In a message dated 1/3/2006 7:04:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, tlbla

ck2006@... writes:

I'd like to know what you all have learned from yourselves that you

Didn't get from your BP parents. What things did you do to make

yourselves better and happier? What do you wish you had learned?

Trish

[Guest guest]

I sense that the force is very strong with you. Your Midichlorian

count is very high! If you encounter the dark side (Nada Vador) the

force will protect you , young Padawan! Seek the councils advice

(modoasis) in order to identify and thwart all Sith activity.

From one Star Wars dork to another!

Joyce

[Guest guest]

Oh, Joyce!

I guess I can tell you with much pride that I won the first game of Star

Wars Trivial Pursuit the other night!

Would it be Nada Vader or Darth Nada.hmmmm

Thanks for the giggle!

cb

_____

From: ModOasis [mailto:ModOasis ] On Behalf

Of nhforpeace

Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:58 PM

To: ModOasis

Subject: Re: What was the best thing you did for yourselves?

I sense that the force is very strong with you. Your Midichlorian

count is very high! If you encounter the dark side (Nada Vador) the

force will protect you , young Padawan! Seek the councils advice

(modoasis) in order to identify and thwart all Sith activity.

From one Star Wars dork to another!

Joyce

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

@.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON

THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

OOO Darth Nada is ever so much better. I'm glad you could

appreciate my geekiness.

Joyce

>

> Oh, Joyce!

>

>

>

> I guess I can tell you with much pride that I won the first game

of Star

> Wars Trivial Pursuit the other night!

>

>

>

> Would it be Nada Vader or Darth Nada.hmmmm

>

>

>

> Thanks for the giggle!

>

>

>

> cb

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: ModOasis [mailto:ModOasis ]

On Behalf

> Of nhforpeace

> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:58 PM

> To: ModOasis

> Subject: Re: What was the best thing you did for

yourselves?

>

>

>

> I sense that the force is very strong with you. Your Midichlorian

> count is very high! If you encounter the dark side (Nada Vador)

the

> force will protect you , young Padawan! Seek the councils advice

> (modoasis) in order to identify and thwart all Sith activity.

>

> From one Star Wars dork to another!

> Joyce

>

>

>

>

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

> @B... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON

> THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-

SHELL

> () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the

Borderline

> Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth)

which you can

> find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and

author SWOE

> and the SWOE Workbook.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Trish,

I love this post. I think you're really on the right track! Re-

parenting ourselves is the key to becoming whole, real, and, most of

all, HAPPY people.

The most important thing I ever did for myself was to move out of

nada's house (and city). I was only a teenager, but somehow I made

the right decision. The second most important thing was to admit I

needed therapy, and get it (and read UBM). The third most important

thing was to learn I was a trauma survivor (and read Trauma and

Recovery).

The next things aren't so predictable. I needed to learn to keep my

household in order. It's a single household, so you wouldn't think

it would be that hard. But I never was in control of my

surroundings. Nada gave me absolutely no sense of structure. So I

learned to keep my house as clean as I could, comfortably--and be

comfortable with the imperfection. And to almost always have clean

laundry, and never run out of toilet paper or essential groceries.

Edith, our old moderator, told us to check out flylady.net, and I

did. Although she wasn't completely for me, I incorporated many of

her techniques, and taught myself how to get control of my

household. This was huge! And necessary work. It took almost two

years. My house wasn't exceptionally dirty before; it's just that I

wasn't in control of it. I had no sense of structure, no sense of

treating my environment or my things like I deserved.

The most important thing I am working on now is discovering the

sources of my shame, anxiety and despair. They are all manifested

in ego states that are different ages. I use affirmation language

appropriate to each age-state, and this is the first thing I've

found so far that actually helps to erase those terrible feelings.

It takes lots and lots of work, but it's worth it.

The most important thing I have NOT done yet is to become completely

financially independent. (At this point I would like to say, yay

Sylvia! Who just bought a home). The second most important thing I

have not done yet is to find a job I really love.

This was fun. Thanks for asking, Trish!

Best,

Charlie

>

> It seems every time I turn around, I realize how growing up with

BPD

> in the family has affected me--usually negatively-- and how I have

> things to work on.

>

> I've found I needed to teach myself to care for myself physically

in

> the face of stress because my nada would make me keep

going/working

> whether I was sick or whatever and I was just keeping up the pace

on

> my own--even without her around.

>

> I've found I need to learn new social skills because in regular

> families, people talk and listen--it's not just a competition for

> attention.

>

> I've learned that my fear of asserting myself to normal people is

> unfounded because regular folks will usually not attack you

> verbally, physically or professionally when you disagree or stick

up

> for yourself.

>

> I've learned that people who really love each other do not

purposely

> try to hurt one another because they are angry (although I really

> suspected my poor husband of doing that on several occasions

because

> that is what I expected him to do.)

>

> I'd like to know what you all have learned from yourselves that

you

> didn't get from your BP parents. What things did you do to make

> yourselves better and happier? What do you wish you had learned?

>

> Trish

>

[Guest guest]

Carlie, I was absolutely not expecting to hear someone talk about putting their

household

in order, but it makes so much sense!

I also went through a long phase where I just had to get my house in order--I

still kind of

tend toward chaos. I did it long before I ever even figured out I had a problem

with my

nada or knew about BP. And looking back on it, it created friction between us.

My nada

still tries to get me to do crazy things like put vacations on my credit card

when I can't

afford it. And I hate the feeling of going home and knowing that there's not

healthy food,

that bills and papers are piled everywhere--that our pets are sickly neglected

(shudder).

My husband and I have just a little one-bedroom apartment. We have to take

stuff to

goodwill alot to keep it from overflowing--I've worked so hard to simplify and I

feel such a

sense of accomplishment about it.

And being financially stable has put me in a sense of calm that I never

expected. When I

think of all the times I was told there was no money to go to the doctor's or

for my parents

to save for retirement, but saw money wasted left and right. . .It feels so good

to know

that I can ensure my own physical well-being without even having a huge income.

I just

feel safe--which is nice.

Where did you hear about the affirmations that are age appropriate? I've been

using

affirmations too when I track down a source of anxiety--which incidentaly is

often rooted

in shame. I've never thought of doing something age appropriate though and it

seems like

a really good idea. Did you find that in a book?

Trish

> >

> > It seems every time I turn around, I realize how growing up with

> BPD

> > in the family has affected me--usually negatively-- and how I have

> > things to work on.

> >

> > I've found I needed to teach myself to care for myself physically

> in

> > the face of stress because my nada would make me keep

> going/working

> > whether I was sick or whatever and I was just keeping up the pace

> on

> > my own--even without her around.

> >

> > I've found I need to learn new social skills because in regular

> > families, people talk and listen--it's not just a competition for

> > attention.

> >

> > I've learned that my fear of asserting myself to normal people is

> > unfounded because regular folks will usually not attack you

> > verbally, physically or professionally when you disagree or stick

> up

> > for yourself.

> >

> > I've learned that people who really love each other do not

> purposely

> > try to hurt one another because they are angry (although I really

> > suspected my poor husband of doing that on several occasions

> because

> > that is what I expected him to do.)

> >

> > I'd like to know what you all have learned from yourselves that

> you

> > didn't get from your BP parents. What things did you do to make

> > yourselves better and happier? What do you wish you had learned?

> >

> > Trish

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In my continued effort to finally individuate (at 35) I decided to

change my last name. It's a symbolic gesture but also very

empowering. Sometimes I feel like it's hard enough to make the

emotional and behavioral changes through therapy and insights and to

do this was one more way to help me visualize the woman I want to

be, by my rules, my definitions.

On a side note, I had what may be the last conversation I ever have

with nada. She has been in a tailspin over the last year since my

sister and I have really started to set boundaries and force healthy

choices on her and it all cumulated (for me) today. The last thing

she had that I wanted was a set of china from my grandmother and I

decided that it was time for me to claim it....againg another

symbolic gesture, not really about the china but about me needing to

have needs/wants. She told me I could come get it but that she

wanted to 'talk' first. When I got there I told her I would put the

china in my car first and THEN we could talk. She ORDERED me to sit

down....again, I'm 35! I told her no, that I wanted to keep the

china as a separate issue and that I would promise to come back and

sit and talk with her..which I would. So, I grabbed the first set

of plates and took them out to my car. I her the door close...I

went back to find my purse on the porch and that I had been locked

out! I tried. So, I gave in, called her from the cell phone and

told her she had won, that I would sit down and talk. Bascially,

she 'sat me down' and berated me for an hour. Told me I was " born

angry and mean " and that I am just going back to this " baseline "

Which, as my sister pointed out, means that not only can she

chastize me for not playing along anymore, but she can also

completely wipe her hands of having any part in my misbehaving

because I was just 'born' that way and it had nothing to do with HER

parenting....

The irony, and sick twisted piece of all of this, which I know you

will all get a kick out of, is that when she finally threw her hands

up in defeat and told me to leave (I just sat and listened) she

walks me out and tells me that the best advice she could give me is

to......are you ready? I'm serious this is classic.....

She tells me that I " should have a kid " !!!!!!!!!

WTF???????????????? I know she's borderline, but sometimes I think

she's just freakin' nuts....

>

> It seems every time I turn around, I realize how growing up with

BPD

> in the family has affected me--usually negatively-- and how I have

> things to work on.

>

> I've found I needed to teach myself to care for myself physically

in

> the face of stress because my nada would make me keep

going/working

> whether I was sick or whatever and I was just keeping up the pace

on

> my own--even without her around.

>

> I've found I need to learn new social skills because in regular

> families, people talk and listen--it's not just a competition for

> attention.

>

> I've learned that my fear of asserting myself to normal people is

> unfounded because regular folks will usually not attack you

> verbally, physically or professionally when you disagree or stick

up

> for yourself.

>

> I've learned that people who really love each other do not

purposely

> try to hurt one another because they are angry (although I really

> suspected my poor husband of doing that on several occasions

because

> that is what I expected him to do.)

>

> I'd like to know what you all have learned from yourselves that

you

> didn't get from your BP parents. What things did you do to make

> yourselves better and happier? What do you wish you had learned?

>

> Trish

>

[Guest guest]

Yep, they're crazy alright. I like what you said when you walked back

in 'you win'. I mean I don't really like it but think it is

appropriate for communicating w/a BP. Just last Friday when I talked

to my nada and she went crazy on me, one of the first episodes of her

hystrionics was to scream amidst her cries 'I can't win with you! Its

always a no-win situation.' I was really proud of myself b/c it was

the first time of talking to her where I kept my composure and

ability to think amidst her crazymaking. I just replied 'I'm sorry. I

thought we were trying to have a relationship, not play a game.' Of

course she went nuts on that one too- 'you are twisting everything I

say around.' blah, blah, blah. I don't think I twisted as much as

cut through the crap.

Funny you went back for the china. At this point I've already told

her there's not a damn thing she owns or could give me that would

change the fact my emotions can't be bought or won over by

materialism. Of course I understand sentimental attachments to

things, but w/my nada she tries so freaking hard to always have some

catch, something to reel me back in w/material objects. Thank God I

took the family pet w/me when I went away to college- she did screw

w/him too- the dog. But when I told her that the next boundary going

down in our relationship was that we didn't want her to send our kids

or us anymore gifts again, ever- for Christmas or b-days or whatever,

she just flipped out hardcore. She screamed 'Would you just prefer I

was dead. It seems the only thing that will make you happy is my

death.' I suppose for a borderline to be told 'no more on the gifts'

is in many ways a death of their manipulation and coping strategies.

I've somewhat contemplated contacting the authorities as I've

reflected on what she said and wondered if it was a veiled suicide

threat (she hasn't said anything about death and such since I was 9

or 10 and was really withdrawn after my dad died when I was 8. She

use to say to me 'you wish I died instead of your father, don't you?'

Not really at the time- no kid wants to lose a parent. But I'm kind

of curious how I would've turned out now days had things been

reversed. I don't dwell on or think too much about it though. I like

who I am).

They are truly from a different reality.

Kerrie

> >

> > It seems every time I turn around, I realize how growing up with

> BPD

> > in the family has affected me--usually negatively-- and how I

have

> > things to work on.

> >

> > I've found I needed to teach myself to care for myself physically

> in

> > the face of stress because my nada would make me keep

> going/working

> > whether I was sick or whatever and I was just keeping up the pace

> on

> > my own--even without her around.

> >

> > I've found I need to learn new social skills because in regular

> > families, people talk and listen--it's not just a competition for

> > attention.

> >

> > I've learned that my fear of asserting myself to normal people is

> > unfounded because regular folks will usually not attack you

> > verbally, physically or professionally when you disagree or stick

> up

> > for yourself.

> >

> > I've learned that people who really love each other do not

> purposely

> > try to hurt one another because they are angry (although I really

> > suspected my poor husband of doing that on several occasions

> because

> > that is what I expected him to do.)

> >

> > I'd like to know what you all have learned from yourselves that

> you

> > didn't get from your BP parents. What things did you do to make

> > yourselves better and happier? What do you wish you had learned?

> >

> > Trish

> >

>

[Guest guest]

A classic nada story! And, BTW, although we may feel sensitive

about using the words 'nuts' and 'crazy', they really do fit many of

our situations. BPD is the clinical and scientific term - but the

behavior, actions, speach, etc is nuts/crazy. It was empowering and

freeing for me when I could finally say that my nada is crazy. I

had a better idea of what I was dealing with using the word 'crazy'

than even the definition of BPD.

Sylvia

>

> In my continued effort to finally individuate (at 35) I decided to

> change my last name. It's a symbolic gesture but also very

> empowering. Sometimes I feel like it's hard enough to make the

> emotional and behavioral changes through therapy and insights and

to

> do this was one more way to help me visualize the woman I want to

> be, by my rules, my definitions.

>

> On a side note, I had what may be the last conversation I ever

have

> with nada. She has been in a tailspin over the last year since my

> sister and I have really started to set boundaries and force

healthy

> choices on her and it all cumulated (for me) today. The last

thing

> she had that I wanted was a set of china from my grandmother and I

> decided that it was time for me to claim it....againg another

> symbolic gesture, not really about the china but about me needing

to

> have needs/wants. She told me I could come get it but that she

> wanted to 'talk' first. When I got there I told her I would put

the

> china in my car first and THEN we could talk. She ORDERED me to

sit

> down....again, I'm 35! I told her no, that I wanted to keep the

> china as a separate issue and that I would promise to come back

and

> sit and talk with her..which I would. So, I grabbed the first set

> of plates and took them out to my car. I her the door close...I

> went back to find my purse on the porch and that I had been locked

> out! I tried. So, I gave in, called her from the cell phone and

> told her she had won, that I would sit down and talk. Bascially,

> she 'sat me down' and berated me for an hour. Told me I was " born

> angry and mean " and that I am just going back to this " baseline "

> Which, as my sister pointed out, means that not only can she

> chastize me for not playing along anymore, but she can also

> completely wipe her hands of having any part in my misbehaving

> because I was just 'born' that way and it had nothing to do with

HER

> parenting....

>

> The irony, and sick twisted piece of all of this, which I know you

> will all get a kick out of, is that when she finally threw her

hands

> up in defeat and told me to leave (I just sat and listened) she

> walks me out and tells me that the best advice she could give me

is

> to......are you ready? I'm serious this is classic.....

>

> She tells me that I " should have a kid " !!!!!!!!!

>

> WTF???????????????? I know she's borderline, but sometimes I

think

> she's just freakin' nuts....

>......

[Guest guest]

Trish, Carol, napapple, and All,

Thanks for this sharing. Carol, I especially

appreciated your sharing, including your words, “the

first generation of my family that can think clearly,

and is optimistic about their future . . . I am

consoled that the motivation to reclaim my own life

came to me at all.” That’s beautiful and inspires me.

Napapple, I agree, THAT’S a CLASSIC! I LOL!

The best thing I ever did regarding my nada is

everything I’ve done to individuate, grow and free

myself from my nada and FOO. I’ve come a long, long

way from what and who I was as a child and younger

adult. There’s still a lot of work to do. I’ve a

feeling this group will continue to be very important

to my growth and I’m really pleased that you’re all

here.

I encourage newcomers and long-timers alike to keep

coming back and posting. Trish, thanks for posting

this inspiring question.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- getevenpersevere@... wrote:

>

> Hi Trish,

>

> The thing that has impacted my life more than any

> other was my choice, more

> than 20 years ago, to keep my children away from my

> parents. BP-nada emits

> her own venom; but my dishrag-dad's (self-serving)

> philosophy is contagious as

> well.

>

> The 'resolution' of my FOO/my siblings, dad and even

> extended family/to

> accept, comply with, and even defend my BP-nada's

> surreal world hasn't

> contaminated my children...the first generation of

> my family that can think clearly,

> and is optimistic about their future. Seeing their

> grandparents once every few

> years, they have each thanked me for protecting them

> from the 'family

> craziness'. I am at peace with my choice of no

> contact; my son's are worth the

> price of choosing to be 'ousted' by my FOO.

>

> If there is any regret, it is that I didn't have the

>

> courage/strength/self-esteem to enforce no-contact

> at an earlier age. But, it is what it is; I am

> consoled that the motivation to reclaim my own life

> came to me at all.

>

> Carol

>

>

>

> In a message dated 1/3/2006 7:04:05 PM Eastern

> Standard Time, tlbla

> ck2006@... writes:

>

> I'd like to know what you all have learned from

> yourselves that you

> Didn't get from your BP parents. What things did

> you do to make

> yourselves better and happier? What do you wish

> you had learned?

>

> Trish

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________

Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.

Just $16.99/mo. or less.

dsl.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

cb wrote, 'I grew up believing that any time I asked for something, I

was whining or nagging.'

I can relate to that. How about this mantra that I grew up with? (and

i don't just mean at the sweet stand at the supermarket checkout, but

in ANY situation where i asked, rather than waited to be offered

something.

" 'I want' doesn't get "

So if I ever actually wanted something in my life I automatically

'knew' i didn't deserve it and would not get it and therefore was

wrong for wanting something I didn't deserve. How twisted. What a

lot of effort as I grew up, to try and unravel that one. AND to try

NOT say it to my kids.......

[Guest guest]

Carol I want to thank you so much for what you just wrote. Since my

grandnada died last week I have been battling lots of old demons

again, because I am nc with my nada. The crisis that precipitated

this was over my children and I became determined to stop the poison

at this generation. Whatever pain it caused me, to sever it and give

them a chance.

Your post just brought me up short. With the recent upset and fresh

guilt, I had forgotten the sense of achievement I had when I first

managed nc - even through the FOG at the time. I had forgotten the

sense of hope I felt that I could protect my kids in a way that no-one

had protected me. I am not sure how free my kids are of my FLEAS, but

I apologise to them when I know I have been unsreasonable - something

my nada never did. Hopefully that will help them not get twisted by

the FLEAS not yet slain, and to feel it is OK to think their mum is

not perfect.

I had also got re-caught up in the sense of loss in losing a large

portion of my family because I went nc. At the time I felt that

ANYTHING was worth the price of protecting my kids. Your post has

made me finally accept that NOTHING has changed on that score. My

kids safety is not just keeping them away from nada, but in keeping

myself away, so that i can keep growing and dealing with the FLEAS

that come to light. If I get wound up with nada again I just may well

lose that perspective. A far more dangerous prospect than the issue

of me getting upset by her. So many thanks.

>

>

> Hi Trish,

>

> The thing that has impacted my life more than any other was my

choice, more

> than 20 years ago, to keep my children away from my parents.

BP-nada emits

> her own venom; but my dishrag-dad's (self-serving) philosophy is

contagious as

> well.

>

> The 'resolution' of my FOO/my siblings, dad and even extended

family/to

> accept, comply with, and even defend my BP-nada's surreal world hasn't

> contaminated my children...the first generation of my family that

can think clearly,

> and is optimistic about their future. Seeing their grandparents

once every few

> years, they have each thanked me for protecting them from the 'family

> craziness'. I am at peace with my choice of no contact; my son's

are worth the

> price of choosing to be 'ousted' by my FOO.

>

> If there is any regret, it is that I didn't have the

> courage/strength/self-esteem to enforce no-contact at an earlier

age. But, it is what it is; I am

> consoled that the motivation to reclaim my own life came to me at all.

>

> Carol

>

>

>

> In a message dated 1/3/2006 7:04:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, tlbla

> ck2006@y... writes:

>

> I'd like to know what you all have learned from yourselves that you

> Didn't get from your BP parents. What things did you do to make

> yourselves better and happier? What do you wish you had learned?

>

> Trish

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> It seems every time I turn around, I realize how growing up with

BPD

> in the family has affected me--usually negatively-- and how I have

> things to work on.

>

> I've found I needed to teach myself to care for myself physically

in

> the face of stress because my nada would make me keep

going/working

> whether I was sick or whatever and I was just keeping up the pace

on

> my own--even without her around.

>

> I've found I need to learn new social skills because in regular

> families, people talk and listen--it's not just a competition for

> attention.

>

> I've learned that my fear of asserting myself to normal people is

> unfounded because regular folks will usually not attack you

> verbally, physically or professionally when you disagree or stick

up

> for yourself.

>

> I've learned that people who really love each other do not

purposely

> try to hurt one another because they are angry (although I really

> suspected my poor husband of doing that on several occasions

because

> that is what I expected him to do.)

>

> I'd like to know what you all have learned from yourselves that

you

> didn't get from your BP parents. What things did you do to make

> yourselves better and happier? What do you wish you had learned?

>

> Trish

>I endorse almost everything you say here. The only differentiator

is the first point. My Mother seemed to go OTT when taking care of

me. At the first sign of a sniffle she would have me at the doc's to

get 'a bottle'. Having said all that, past the age of 6 I never had

a day off school because it stressed her out me being at home and

upsetting her routine. So maybe, I've just had a lightbulb moment!

Thanks!

The best thing I ever did was unintentional but maybe God was

smiling on me. I got my first job 200 miles away from home and from

the moment I left 'my perfect home' I felt elated and free. For the

first time I made friends and ultimately met the man of my

dreams...my husband! I felt guilty about being so happy when I

first moved away; after all didn't I have the most wonderful parents

who had done everything for me??

20 years on, I finally broke free. Again, unintentional in that I

just lost my cool one day and told her I couldn't stand the way she

spoke to me. Instead of going back and saying sorry and taking the

tongue lashing I've stuck to my guns which has been really hard

especially over Christmas, but I'm again liberated and it feels good.

I also used to say hurtful things to my husaband when angry and act

out 'the victim'. I'd turn small slights, real or imagined, into

great examples of ill-treatment to demonstrate how selfish he was

and how martyred I was. It was all learned behaviour and thankfully

it never came naturally to me.

I am trying not to be frightened by confrontation, but that's still

a difficult nut to crack. I'm forcing myself to make eye contact

too as I shouldn't be scared that everyone is looking at me with

contempt.

My parents moved to be near me 12 yeras ago. My mother walked to my

house every day to do my housework whilst I was at work. Don't

laugh when I say I hated it! Three yeras ago we moved three miles

away and she can no longer get here under her own steam. That,

according to her, has led to deep depression which is all my fault.

So, one of my greatest joys now is to come home from work and find

dust and a pile of ironing and my mail still untouched in the

mailbox!

[Guest guest]

Trish,

Thank you for posting this thread. Among all the problems we write

about in order to get help, validation, and support, it is great to

take some time to acknowledge what we have achieved in our growth

and healing.

It took me some time to think about what I wanted to write. I am

dealing with a few things that are pretty stressful right now, and I

truthfully wasn't feeling like I had accomplished anything! Just

more proof to me of nada's terrible impact on my self-esteem. So -

I 'wriggled' myself up out of the self-doubt and self-depreciation

to determine how I would answer your questions.

The best thing I did for myself was to dare to trust myself! And oh

my! All the ways that simple change in my thought process has

impacted my life. There had been many times before that I had done

what was good for me - but not with the trust.

I think it was the trust that made me really see that I was a

separate person - unique, having my own contribution to make. And

that because I was separate, I deserved just as much consideration

and respect as everyone else. My trust led to my own self-respect.

It certainly was a snowball effect - and I had not realized it until

thinking about your post.

Funny, but the situation that prompted all of this was when I

thought I was going to be wrongly fired from a job. I knew the

accusations were wrong, and I could even prove it - but the VP in

charge didn't care about the proof. She was looking for someone to

control in order to feel her power. Anyhow, I decided that I wasn't

just going to roll over and play dead (or roll over and leave my

job?). I continued to hold my head high, and determined that if I

left, it was going to be on my terms, not theirs - or at least I

wasn't going down without a fight. I put on a very brave front, but

was certainly shivering and shaking inside - after all - this was

the first time in my life that I had ever consciously and

purposefully 'stood up' to authority. It was really a safe

situation - cause I knew the worst they could do was fire me - and I

already thought that they were planning on doing that or hoping I

would leave.

Well, they didn't even try to fire me - a few years later I was

promoted into a new position, and in a field that was just perfect

for my abilities. I never took any 'crap' from anyone at that

company again. I have had 'relapses', but that is okay - cause I

can 'trust' that I will continue to take care of myself.

Sylvia

>

> It seems every time I turn around, I realize how growing up with

BPD

> in the family has affected me--usually negatively-- and how I have

> things to work on.

>

> I've found I needed to teach myself to care for myself physically

in

> the face of stress because my nada would make me keep

going/working

> whether I was sick or whatever and I was just keeping up the pace

on

> my own--even without her around.

>

> I've found I need to learn new social skills because in regular

> families, people talk and listen--it's not just a competition for

> attention.

>

> I've learned that my fear of asserting myself to normal people is

> unfounded because regular folks will usually not attack you

> verbally, physically or professionally when you disagree or stick

up

> for yourself.

>

> I've learned that people who really love each other do not

purposely

> try to hurt one another because they are angry (although I really

> suspected my poor husband of doing that on several occasions

because

> that is what I expected him to do.)

>

> I'd like to know what you all have learned from yourselves that

you

> didn't get from your BP parents. What things did you do to make

> yourselves better and happier? What do you wish you had learned?

>

> Trish

>

[Guest guest]

The best thing I did for myself was break the biggest taboo of all in my foo, I

opened my mouth and talked to someone about the situations I had experienced in

my family. To an outsider!!

I sat across from my doctor in 1997 and told her that I thought my mother

wished I had never been born. She told me about BPD.

I spent a year reading all I could about BPD, absorbing what I could in

stages, discovering the part I had played in my interactions with my foo,

unknowingly supporting it, and coming to a better understanding of decisions I

had made that had felt both right and wrong to me. I then actively sought out

this group.

My first posting was hard to put out there and for awhile I read more than I

posted. But this list helped me learn to trust myself, to take the step away

from my foo's mentality and I grew stronger in trusting my views. Everything I

had read, everything I had worked through, mourning the loss of my dream family,

excepting that there are situations with my foo that I cannot change, helped me

be stronger in a way I had never been before. Gave me a purpose other than what

I had been raised to have. Thank god! because I had no idea that in 2000 my nada

would tell me to my face, out loud, that fear of mine that I had shared with my

doctor.

When it happened, I found that it didn't hurt. I found that I could stand

there and see how her face moved, the tone she choose to say it in and the gleam

in her eye as she waited for my pain, doing this in a 3rd person kind of way. I

guess I should say that it hurt but not in the " hoovering " way nada was hoping

for. I went NC that day. I had honored my dads final wish, there was nothing

left for me to do, so I left her house, stopped answering her calls, held my

head up and went on with my life.

The past five years have had many experiences that I'm not sure I could have

handled without having had the first three to fall on... I've discovered that

two of my siblings have BPD as well, which explains why I always felt

outnumbered with them. I lost a wonderful friend to cancer, walked beside and

supported my eldest daughter while she struggled with depression and suicide

attempts, and other situations that happen in the course of life, and yet... as

tough as it has been...I'm grateful! I really believe that I've endured these

things because I opened my mouth and spoke out. Breaking the foo taboo was the

best thing I could have done for myself.

Warm thoughts to all you folks on this list. Finding yourself is always the

best treasure.

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to “Understanding the Borderline

Mother” (Lawson) and “Surviving the Borderline Parent,” (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

The best thing I ever did was think to myself " She just CANT be normal " ,

and start searching for her symptoms... they were pretty familiar.

And fleeing from her clutches at 17 (I didnt leave I *F*L*E*D*)...

Looking at her on her 60th BD and thinking to myself she was just a bag

of wrinkles...

and declaring last time I left Headjob's place, " I do not care to

return " ...

> The best thing I did for myself was break the biggest taboo of all in my foo,

I opened my mouth and talked to someone about the situations I had experienced

in my family. To an outsider!!

> I sat across from my doctor in 1997 and told her that I thought my mother

wished I had never been born. She told me about BPD.

>

> I spent a year reading all I could about BPD, absorbing what I could in

stages, discovering the part I had played in my interactions with my foo,

unknowingly supporting it, and coming to a better understanding of decisions I

had made that had felt both right and wrong to me. I then actively sought out

this group.

>

> My first posting was hard to put out there and for awhile I read more than

I posted. But this list helped me learn to trust myself, to take the step away

from my foo's mentality and I grew stronger in trusting my views. Everything I

had read, everything I had worked through, mourning the loss of my dream family,

excepting that there are situations with my foo that I cannot change, helped me

be stronger in a way I had never been before. Gave me a purpose other than what

I had been raised to have. Thank god! because I had no idea that in 2000 my nada

would tell me to my face, out loud, that fear of mine that I had shared with my

doctor.

>

> When it happened, I found that it didn't hurt. I found that I could stand

there and see how her face moved, the tone she choose to say it in and the gleam

in her eye as she waited for my pain, doing this in a 3rd person kind of way. I

guess I should say that it hurt but not in the " hoovering " way nada was hoping

for. I went NC that day. I had honored my dads final wish, there was nothing

left for me to do, so I left her house, stopped answering her calls, held my

head up and went on with my life.

>

> The past five years have had many experiences that I'm not sure I could have

handled without having had the first three to fall on... I've discovered that

two of my siblings have BPD as well, which explains why I always felt

outnumbered with them. I lost a wonderful friend to cancer, walked beside and

supported my eldest daughter while she struggled with depression and suicide

attempts, and other situations that happen in the course of life, and yet... as

tough as it has been...I'm grateful! I really believe that I've endured these

things because I opened my mouth and spoke out. Breaking the foo taboo was the

best thing I could have done for myself.

>

> Warm thoughts to all you folks on this list. Finding yourself is always the

best treasure.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to ´Understanding the Borderline

Mother¡ (Lawson) and ´Surviving the Borderline Parent,¡ (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> >From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> >I also used to say hurtful things to my husaband when angry and act

>out 'the victim'. I'd turn small slights, real or imagined, into

>great examples of ill-treatment to demonstrate how selfish he was

>and how martyred I was. It was all learned behaviour and thankfully

>it never came naturally to me.

As I tried to think of one thing I did that was best for me I have a

hard time to isolate just one thing. So many good things have come

from my changing. But the best thing I have done is to stop being a

martyr. With my husband and my children, especially my daughters, I

would take offense at the slightest thing. I was moody and sooooooooo

hurt by something they did or didn't do. After recognising this trait

in myself and realizing how unproductive, and stupid it was, I

approached each of my daughters and apologized and heard them out.

Some of the instances they remembered, I couldn't remember. Is that

scary or what? Sounds like a nada. Having lived with this kind of

behavior from my mother and thinking it was normal and inevitable I

was fulfilling her prophecy for me. My son actually was the first one

to point it out to me. And it was actually over my telling him just

how bad it had been to see my mother that day. He said, 'You know

Mom, you are doing exactly what she does. You are making yourself a

martyr and a victim.' He's a bright man so I took it to heart. I

realized that all the time I was spending moaning over how tough she

was to deal with was my choice. I was making it worse for myself by

my 'woe-is-me' attitude. He learned at a young age that he was truly

responsible for his own feelings and had choices as to how to react to

anything.Dee

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to take a moment to thank Trish and Sylvia on this

subject. Trish I am so so glad you posted this question and Sylvia I

am so so glad you pointed out what a wonderful oppurtunity Trish's

question gives us all.

Further I would like to say that Sylvia your post on trusting

yourself and the snowball effect it has had is very inspirational and

timely for me. I just had a conversation with my therapist about a

recent breakthrough and she kept talking about how wonderful it was

that I would be able to trust my own perceptions now. I wasn't sure

why she was stressing that as I felt I hadn't reached that stage yet.

But after reading your post, what she said makes sense to me.

I want more time to think about this question, and I am looking

forward to giving it some thought. Thank you Trish for helping to

point my thoughts in such a positive and inspiring direction.

Take care everybody,

Tucan

[Guest guest]

Wow! I'm pretty speachless right now! Your post was moving,

inspiring. I am so glad that you were able to do all of this.

Isn't it amazing what one simple act will accomplish? Yours is a

real success story - even the difficult parts.

Sylvia

>

> The best thing I did for myself was break the biggest taboo of all

in my foo, I opened my mouth and talked to someone about the

situations I had experienced in my family. To an outsider!!

> I sat across from my doctor in 1997 and told her that I thought

my mother wished I had never been born. She told me about BPD.

>

> I spent a year reading all I could about BPD, absorbing what I

could in stages, discovering the part I had played in my

interactions with my foo, unknowingly supporting it, and coming to a

better understanding of decisions I had made that had felt both

right and wrong to me. I then actively sought out this group.

>

> My first posting was hard to put out there and for awhile I

read more than I posted. But this list helped me learn to trust

myself, to take the step away from my foo's mentality and I grew

stronger in trusting my views. Everything I had read, everything I

had worked through, mourning the loss of my dream family, excepting

that there are situations with my foo that I cannot change, helped

me be stronger in a way I had never been before. Gave me a purpose

other than what I had been raised to have. Thank god! because I had

no idea that in 2000 my nada would tell me to my face, out loud,

that fear of mine that I had shared with my doctor.

>

> When it happened, I found that it didn't hurt. I found that I

could stand there and see how her face moved, the tone she choose to

say it in and the gleam in her eye as she waited for my pain, doing

this in a 3rd person kind of way. I guess I should say that it hurt

but not in the " hoovering " way nada was hoping for. I went NC that

day. I had honored my dads final wish, there was nothing left for me

to do, so I left her house, stopped answering her calls, held my

head up and went on with my life.

>

> The past five years have had many experiences that I'm not sure

I could have handled without having had the first three to fall

on... I've discovered that two of my siblings have BPD as well,

which explains why I always felt outnumbered with them. I lost a

wonderful friend to cancer, walked beside and supported my eldest

daughter while she struggled with depression and suicide attempts,

and other situations that happen in the course of life, and yet...

as tough as it has been...I'm grateful! I really believe that I've

endured these things because I opened my mouth and spoke out.

Breaking the foo taboo was the best thing I could have done for

myself.

>

> Warm thoughts to all you folks on this list. Finding yourself is

always the best treasure.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dee,

Wow! That is so awesome to read about how your son asked you

indirectly to reflect on your own behavior and you actually did and

owned it. That is the world of difference between a non and an actual

BP in my experience. A BP would never want to reflect on themselves

as that is too painful and there's just a void. A non w/fleas and

attributes or maybe even a bp in recovery would own up to it and make

ammends and try to change the behavior. I also see w/my dh and I how

that is so vastly different from my nada's behavior. I have

definitely owned up to how I was contaminating the relationship in

the beginning and how we're still dealing w/some deep scares from

that time and trying to heal, but I think the big difference is the

direction of the wills. I think your will and mine is directed

towards getting better while I see my nada's will directed towards

self-protection in the wall of bp coping mechanisms.

K

> > >

> > >I also used to say hurtful things to my husaband when angry and

act

> >out 'the victim'. I'd turn small slights, real or imagined, into

> >great examples of ill-treatment to demonstrate how selfish he was

> >and how martyred I was. It was all learned behaviour and thankfully

> >it never came naturally to me.

>

> As I tried to think of one thing I did that was best for me I have a

> hard time to isolate just one thing. So many good things have come

> from my changing. But the best thing I have done is to stop being a

> martyr. With my husband and my children, especially my daughters, I

> would take offense at the slightest thing. I was moody and

sooooooooo

> hurt by something they did or didn't do. After recognising this

trait

> in myself and realizing how unproductive, and stupid it was, I

> approached each of my daughters and apologized and heard them out.

> Some of the instances they remembered, I couldn't remember. Is that

> scary or what? Sounds like a nada. Having lived with this kind of

> behavior from my mother and thinking it was normal and inevitable I

> was fulfilling her prophecy for me. My son actually was the first

one

> to point it out to me. And it was actually over my telling him just

> how bad it had been to see my mother that day. He said, 'You know

> Mom, you are doing exactly what she does. You are making yourself a

> martyr and a victim.' He's a bright man so I took it to heart. I

> realized that all the time I was spending moaning over how tough she

> was to deal with was my choice. I was making it worse for myself by

> my 'woe-is-me' attitude. He learned at a young age that he was

truly

> responsible for his own feelings and had choices as to how to react

to

> anything.Dee

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jannice,

'I want doesn't get'--This resonated with me. I'm sorry you had to

go through this. I think I have an idea how you'd feel. So many

times, when I would ask nada for something--say, some orange juice,

I would get a terribly hostile reaction. " Just a MINute, CHAARlie, "

she would hiss, as if instead of simply asking for orange juice, I'd

yelled at her--you are a great big ugly hideous jerk, give me some

orange juice now, you evil monster. This was very confusing to a

young child.

To this day, it's extremely difficult for me to 'ask' anyone for

anything, even if it's just for people to do their job. Ordering

pizza delivery, for example, or car repairs. Or, God forbid,

anything where you have to be a little persistent and move people to

do something they're not particularly inclined to do. I'm learning

to feel better about these things, but it's taking some time. It's

also taking a lot of forgiveness of myself for feeling this way at

all, since my fada denied that any abuse was happening and kept

pushing me to 'face' people and acheieve, as if I had no reason to

be afraid of them at all. But that is another thread...

>

> cb wrote, 'I grew up believing that any time I asked for

something, I

> was whining or nagging.'

>

> I can relate to that. How about this mantra that I grew up with?

(and

> i don't just mean at the sweet stand at the supermarket checkout,

but

> in ANY situation where i asked, rather than waited to be offered

> something.

>

> " 'I want' doesn't get "

>

> So if I ever actually wanted something in my life I automatically

> 'knew' i didn't deserve it and would not get it and therefore was

> wrong for wanting something I didn't deserve. How twisted. What a

> lot of effort as I grew up, to try and unravel that one. AND to

try

> NOT say it to my kids.......

>

[Guest guest]

Bridget,

I'm so sorry you are having to go through this w/your dad too. I have

often times reflected on the enablers being more dangerous in my life

than the BPs. They offer an illusion of validation, sanity and

nurturance, but it is an illusion I am finding out. They can't teach

me to care for myself anymore than a nada can b/c I'm learning they

don't remotely care about themselves enough to get help- to quit

being so co-dependant, alcoholic, etc, etc.

My aunt is the enabler in my life that causes me the most heartbreak.

She will validate me on one hand and then turn around and invalidate

on another. Tries to FOG me all the time- working mainly on guilt and

obligation though she swears she never does anything on guilt alone-

not true I'm learning. Seems everything she does has so much layered

guilt its not even funny.

Just the other day as my aunt was saying she didn't have a problem

dealing w/her NPD fada, my grandfada, unlike my nada, I said 'oh

really.' She said 'yeah, I don't change like your mother does. I am

always the same.' This aunt I am learning has always been seen as

competition by my nada for grandfada's attention and I think

grandfada is sick and enjoys the fractions he splits his family into

though he'll say a lot of crap like " I just don't want anyone

fighting over my stuff when I'm dead. Family's the most important

thing in the world. " But my aunt was asking me if she was as messed

up as my mom, nada, or if I thought she was and I said 'No, you're

right. You don't change from one person to the next in a matter of

seconds. You always stay the same. You are always on the bottom of

the ladder. You don't deal w/your alcohol problems, your mental

health problems, any problems. Your self-esteem is so low you don't

even think you are worthy of a job right now. And so you're right.

You don't change, but maybe you should.' I guess I felt like just

saying it like it was b/c she had just been bragging about being able

to call a spade a spade and then brings up herself to compare to nada

which I find irritating (they both do that- as though sisterhood is

some sick competition- makes me glad I have a brother though I know

it is more a matter of a BPD and an addict/enabler being raised by a

BP grandnada an NPD grandfada- of course they're all sick).

Growing up is hard and it doesn't happen over night. One of the best

books I like to read and cry over is 'The Velveteen Rabbit'. I see in

it just how absolutely much I have grown, but it has taken a lifetime

of fighting the invisible to become 'real'. Its not easy, but worth

it.

Best wishes to you. I'm not sure if you are seeing a therapist, but

you mentioned your bulemia and being a KO alone is enough reason to

seek out therapy. Add on your addiction w/bulemia and it is really

difficult to get through these problems w/o a trained specialist.

Personally I think everyone should get therapy...at least at some

point or another in their lives. I like having my therapist and this

support group. Its my lifeline to sanity- that a bunch of books I

read.

Kerrie

>

> Dealing with initiating rare contact. So my nada called at least

20 times

> yesterday on all phones. This morning I finally called my father

(disrag

> dad who enables her- but I LOVE him and I WANT to trust him to be

my dad and

> protect me).

>

> First he acted dumb- like he had no clue about the calls and my

lack of

> reponse (over one day of course). Finally we got into it and

unfortunately

> he offered his usual responses and advice- Bridget your mother is

going

> through a difficult time, she is emotional, give her a break, she

is worried

> about abandonment, she is menopausal, she is just having a hard

time.

>

> This time my smarter head said- NO. No Dad I am not listening to

this

> anymore. I cannot worry about her. She is the MOTHER. I am the

kid. Why

> are you putting this stress on me? I have to live here and create

a life of

> my own. She has a life, she had her life at 28, her husband, her

job, her

> kids. Why am I supposed to sacrifice my quality of life for her

now?

>

> He listened, but still kept enabling her. Telling me to

understand. To

> flat out call and tell her I love her. I said Dad- when did I ever

in my

> life say I hated her? When? He said, I know she just needs

reassurance.

> So finally I said you need to realize she is sick. There is a name

for

> this, it will not go away and I am KILLING myself with bulimia

Dad. Because

> of this- this is eating away at me.

>

> So he semi agreed to read a book, any book on the disease. I said

I know

> you can't do anything about it and you don't want to- but read it

and you'll

> see what I mean.

>

> He was just so sad. So sad to hear me say I need to go rare

contact. But

> what about me Brid? Can you call me? It broke my heart. Who

wants to

> leave their father? And for the first time in months I can feel

the pain.

> I want to cry. But then I suck it up and I put up my wall.

>

> Thank you for letting me vent. I will continue to deal. But

nothing is

> worse than having your dad ask something of you and you cannot do

it. I

> wish I could grow up.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Charlie,

Thousands of times, I got the same kind hostile,

hissing, nasty intonations and words from my nada.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- charlottehoneychurch

wrote:

> Dear Jannice,

>

> 'I want doesn't get'--This resonated with me. I'm

> sorry you had to

> go through this. I think I have an idea how you'd

> feel. So many

> times, when I would ask nada for something--say,

> some orange juice,

> I would get a terribly hostile reaction. " Just a

> MINute, CHAARlie, "

> she would hiss, as if instead of simply asking for

> orange juice, I'd

> yelled at her--you are a great big ugly hideous

> jerk, give me some

> orange juice now, you evil monster. This was very

> confusing to a

> young child.

>

> To this day, it's extremely difficult for me to

> 'ask' anyone for

> anything, even if it's just for people to do their

> job. Ordering

> pizza delivery, for example, or car repairs. Or,

> God forbid,

> anything where you have to be a little persistent

> and move people to

> do something they're not particularly inclined to

> do. I'm learning

> to feel better about these things, but it's taking

> some time. It's

> also taking a lot of forgiveness of myself for

> feeling this way at

> all, since my fada denied that any abuse was

> happening and kept

> pushing me to 'face' people and acheieve, as if I

> had no reason to

> be afraid of them at all. But that is another

> thread...

>

>

>

>

> >

> > cb wrote, 'I grew up believing that any time I

> asked for

> something, I

> > was whining or nagging.'

> >

> > I can relate to that. How about this mantra that

> I grew up with?

> (and

> > i don't just mean at the sweet stand at the

> supermarket checkout,

> but

> > in ANY situation where i asked, rather than waited

> to be offered

> > something.

> >

> > " 'I want' doesn't get "

> >

> > So if I ever actually wanted something in my life

> I automatically

> > 'knew' i didn't deserve it and would not get it

> and therefore was

> > wrong for wanting something I didn't deserve. How

> twisted. What a

> > lot of effort as I grew up, to try and unravel

> that one. AND to

> try

> > NOT say it to my kids.......

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Hi Kerrie,

I've learned in recent years that when someone says

something like, " I just don't want anyone fighting

over my stuff when I'm dead, " that's often EXACTLY

what they want to have happen. It's the kind of

passive-aggressive statement my dishrag fada made

thousands of times. When someone makes a declaration

like that, I watch out for them to behave in ways that

will make their fear come true, like a self-fulfilling

prophecy.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- Kerrie wrote:

> Bridget,

>

> I'm so sorry you are having to go through this

> w/your dad too. I have

> often times reflected on the enablers being more

> dangerous in my life

> than the BPs. They offer an illusion of validation,

> sanity and

> nurturance, but it is an illusion I am finding out.

> They can't teach

> me to care for myself anymore than a nada can b/c

> I'm learning they

> don't remotely care about themselves enough to get

> help- to quit

> being so co-dependant, alcoholic, etc, etc.

>

> My aunt is the enabler in my life that causes me the

> most heartbreak.

> She will validate me on one hand and then turn

> around and invalidate

> on another. Tries to FOG me all the time- working

> mainly on guilt and

> obligation though she swears she never does anything

> on guilt alone-

> not true I'm learning. Seems everything she does has

> so much layered

> guilt its not even funny.

>

> Just the other day as my aunt was saying she didn't

> have a problem

> dealing w/her NPD fada, my grandfada, unlike my

> nada, I said 'oh

> really.' She said 'yeah, I don't change like your

> mother does. I am

> always the same.' This aunt I am learning has always

> been seen as

> competition by my nada for grandfada's attention and

> I think

> grandfada is sick and enjoys the fractions he splits

> his family into

> though he'll say a lot of crap like " I just don't

> want anyone

> fighting over my stuff when I'm dead. Family's the

> most important

> thing in the world. " But my aunt was asking me if

> she was as messed

> up as my mom, nada, or if I thought she was and I

> said 'No, you're

> right. You don't change from one person to the next

> in a matter of

> seconds. You always stay the same. You are always on

> the bottom of

> the ladder. You don't deal w/your alcohol problems,

> your mental

> health problems, any problems. Your self-esteem is

> so low you don't

> even think you are worthy of a job right now. And so

> you're right.

> You don't change, but maybe you should.' I guess I

> felt like just

> saying it like it was b/c she had just been bragging

> about being able

> to call a spade a spade and then brings up herself

> to compare to nada

> which I find irritating (they both do that- as

> though sisterhood is

> some sick competition- makes me glad I have a

> brother though I know

> it is more a matter of a BPD and an addict/enabler

> being raised by a

> BP grandnada an NPD grandfada- of course they're all

> sick).

>

> Growing up is hard and it doesn't happen over night.

> One of the best

> books I like to read and cry over is 'The Velveteen

> Rabbit'. I see in

> it just how absolutely much I have grown, but it has

> taken a lifetime

> of fighting the invisible to become 'real'. Its not

> easy, but worth

> it.

>

> Best wishes to you. I'm not sure if you are seeing a

> therapist, but

> you mentioned your bulemia and being a KO alone is

> enough reason to

> seek out therapy. Add on your addiction w/bulemia

> and it is really

> difficult to get through these problems w/o a

> trained specialist.

> Personally I think everyone should get therapy...at

> least at some

> point or another in their lives. I like having my

> therapist and this

> support group. Its my lifeline to sanity- that a

> bunch of books I

> read.

>

> Kerrie

>

> >

> > Dealing with initiating rare contact. So my nada

> called at least

> 20 times

> > yesterday on all phones. This morning I finally

> called my father

> (disrag

> > dad who enables her- but I LOVE him and I WANT to

> trust him to be

> my dad and

> > protect me).

> >

> > First he acted dumb- like he had no clue about the

> calls and my

> lack of

> > reponse (over one day of course). Finally we got

> into it and

> unfortunately

> > he offered his usual responses and advice- Bridget

> your mother is

> going

> > through a difficult time, she is emotional, give

> her a break, she

> is worried

> > about abandonment, she is menopausal, she is just

> having a hard

> time.

> >

> > This time my smarter head said- NO. No Dad I am

> not listening to

> this

> > anymore. I cannot worry about her. She is the

> MOTHER. I am the

> kid. Why

> > are you putting this stress on me? I have to live

> here and create

> a life of

> > my own. She has a life, she had her life at 28,

> her husband, her

> job, her

> > kids. Why am I supposed to sacrifice my quality

> of life for her

> now?

> >

> > He listened, but still kept enabling her. Telling

> me to

> understand. To

> > flat out call and tell her I love her. I said

> Dad- when did I ever

> in my

> > life say I hated her? When? He said, I know she

> just needs

> reassurance.

> > So finally I said you need to realize she is sick.

> There is a name

> for

> > this, it will not go away and I am KILLING myself

> with bulimia

> Dad. Because

> > of this- this is eating away at me.

> >

> > So he semi agreed to read a book, any book on the

> disease. I said

> I know

> > you can't do anything about it and you don't want

> to- but read it

> and you'll

> > see what I mean.

> >

> > He was just so sad. So sad to hear me say I need

> to go rare

> contact. But

> > what about me Brid? Can you call me? It broke my

> heart. Who

> wants to

> > leave their father? And for the first time in

> months I can feel

> the pain.

> > I want to cry. But then I suck it up and I put up

> my wall.

> >

> > Thank you for letting me vent. I will continue to

> deal. But

> nothing is

> > worse than having your dad ask something of you

> and you cannot do

> it. I

> > wish I could grow up.

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

> To this day, it's extremely difficult for me to 'ask' anyone for

> anything, even if it's just for people to do their job.

You bet! Me too! When i was younger i would throw away a pair of new

shoes with a fault, rather than face the pain of taking them back and

asking for 'my rights' as a consumer to but goods fit for there job.

Not sure when, but on this kind of thing I actually had a swing in the

opposite direction as I got older - the stereotypical bolshy customer

who wanted something doing NO. Not sure why or how it happened, but

maybe I found a way of compensating for the lack of power to make my

own choices in life. Hmmmm. Thankfully for the shops of the world i

started noticing that my feelings about 'goods' was a bit OTT and have

succeeded in finding a more balanced approach. After all it's not ehf

ault of (usually) very helpful assistants if my goods are faulty, and

things are more likely to get done about it if they don't feel

demeaned - like they did it to me on purpose!

Just thought, does this sound like a FLEA?

J