Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 >But now, since my son is >getting older, she will start saying things to my son, like, nobody >loves me, just you do, you are the only one who cares about me...mommy >doesnt love me, daddy doesnt love me, your sister doesnt love me. >First, is this an example of splitting, and how would any of you deal >with it? This is really the least of my worries regarding nadas >escapades, but since I found this board, I have so many things to >bounce off you guys..... I don't think this is an example of splitting. I think it is an example of exploitive, unhealthy, emotional abuse. How would I handle it? I would protect my innocent son from such abuse. She would never see him again unless this stopped. He would never be alone with her. He has no one but you to protect him. You hold the power to protect him. I would never allow nada to run down my husband and the father of my children. She is truly a destructive person. Take care of yourself and your family. Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 >She She used to be close to my daughter the same way she is with my son... but now, they are always " fighting " , she says " your just like your father, your a punk just like him, no good like him and his family " ...when in reality, my mother personalizes things not directed to her, and the things we are talking about are mostly pre teen and teenage stuff anyway.Not to mention she blows everything out of proportion. I could never allow this kind of conversation between my daughter and anyone let alone my child's grandmother. It is the usual thing for nada's to find fault with grandchildren who grow up. Your daughter is probably emotionally older than her grandmother. What a destructive behavior! Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 > >She > She used to be close to my daughter the same way she is with my son... but > now, they are always " fighting " , she says " your just like your father, > your a punk just like him, no good like him and his family " ...when in > reality, my mother personalizes things not directed to her, and the > things we are talking about are mostly pre teen and teenage stuff > anyway.Not to mention she blows everything out of proportion. > > I could never allow this kind of conversation between my daughter and > anyone let alone my child's grandmother. It is the usual thing for > nada's to find fault with grandchildren who grow up. Your daughter is > probably emotionally older than her grandmother. What a destructive > behavior! Dee > Dee, on paper, I wouldnt allow it either. I cringe just writing it. But strangely, sadly, it has been the norm for me and everyone around nada. Like it is expected. And all at once, I have come to terms that a) she more than likely is BPD, and I never really bothered to label her " personality " before, and I have allowed myself and my kids and husband to put up with all of this. Its hard, almost as hard as dealing with nada, and I have tremendous guilt from it. I feel awful, and I dont know where to begin to pick up the pieces........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Nurse, Your nada is exploiting and manipulating your son. He is a little four year old that only knows to be truth what those he loves tell him. He can't understand the mental illness that is causing this behavior. Your nada shouldn't be allowed to say these things to him - nor the things she says to your daughter. As their mother, it will be up to you to protect them from her. Perhaps no one protected you - but this is your opportunity to stop this cycle. Your children need to be told something age appropriate about nada, and they need to hear that what she is saying about their parents is not the truth. If this were happening to my children, I would tell nada that this type of conversation is destructive, it isn't true, and that it must stop or she can't be with the children. Then I would make sure I (or the children's father) was always with the children when nada was around. Some of the other adults may enable nada, so be careful who you trust in this issue, because others may not have the courage to step up and tell nada to stop what she is doing. Take care of yourself and your family, Sylvia > > Undiagnosed nada has a very close relationship with my son, or HER > grandson, I should say... he is 4, I have a daughter, who is 14. She > used to be close to my daughter the same way she is with my son... but > now, they are always " fighting " , she says " your just like your father, > your a punk just like him, no good like him and his family " ...when in > reality, my mother personalizes things not directed to her, and the > things we are talking about are mostly pre teen and teenage stuff > anyway.Not to mention she blows everything out of proportion. this > has gone on all of her life......my recollection is this started when > my daughter got a lil older, and started getting close with her > father,thus less close to grandnada (or so she thought, being > bpd)....and nada hates my husband anyway..But now, since my son is > getting older, she will start saying things to my son, like, nobody > loves me, just you do, you are the only one who cares about me...mommy > doesnt love me, daddy doesnt love me, your sister doesnt love me. > First, is this an example of splitting, and how would any of you deal > with it? This is really the least of my worries regarding nadas > escapades, but since I found this board, I have so many things to > bounce off you guys..... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 >But strangely, sadly, it has been the norm for me and everyone around nada. Just resolve that it will not be the norm from today forward. Why subject another generation to the same thing? As a mother your responsibility is to your children not your mother. For the first three years of my daughter's life I put up with visits and garbage. We go years now without seeing my mother. My son is eight and has seen her a total of 3 times. I will never leave my children alone with her and I won't be alone with her. I have a duty and responsibility not to have my children exposed to her manipulations, spews of rage both verbal and physical. I want them to have what I didn't have as a child a safe and secure home and life knowing that those in their lives care for them. Not wondering when the next bomb will fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Its hard, > almost as hard as dealing with nada, and I have tremendous guilt > from it. I feel awful, and I dont know where to begin to pick up the > pieces........ > I agree with Dee that you shouldn't allow nada to be with your children unattended. I don't let nada alone with my daughter anymore. She also made a string of inappropriate comments to her while I was letting her babysit for me. But please please don't get mired down in any guilt over what has happened in the past. Guilt will only tear you down and consume your energy. And you will need all the strength and energy you can muster to begin picking up the pieces. Coming to terms with BPD and learning how to readjust your thinking takes alot of energy and strength. There is much to learn and many decisions to be made. However each discovery you make and each piece you put right will make you that much stronger and happier. This is not to say it all happens in a neat linear order. Some days or weeks or months will be harder than others. It is a process like grieving or recovering from an addiction. But you have friends here and we will be with you every step of the way. You are not alone and you are not a bad daughter, wife, or mother. We have all spent many years trying to figure out what we could do to make it " work " with our nadas and fadas. Luckily for all of us here we learned what BPD is and now know that there is nothing we can do to make things right with them. It is heartbreaking when we begin to understand that it will NEVER be any better, we will never have the kind of parents that all children deverve, and there is nothing we can do to help them. The flip side of the coin is that once we come to terms with this fact, we are liberated from the he**ish cycle of trying to fix it only to fail over and over again. We are then free to learn more about who we really are and how competent and successful we really can be. Here are some books that have really helped me...Surviving a Borderline Parent & Toxic Parents & If you had controlling Parents, How to Come to Terms with Your Past and Take Your Place in the World. I can't remember the authors offhand, but these books have really helped me to begin this journey of understanding and healing. It is sometimes really hard to explain to nada and others why you won't leave your children alone with their grandma.I know you will have to find your own way through this issue, but this is how I handled it. For a while I managed to avoid saying anything directly by having many " plans " ready in my mind before I talked to her. One thing I did was tell her that I had decided to put dd (dear daughter) in an afterschool program instead of having nada watch her so that dd could have more time with her friends.I said I thought she would benefit from having more time to socalize with peers. I did this until I had time to get my frame of mind right. Of coures she wheedled and badgered me the whole time wanting to know when she could see my daughter. I just kept putting her off with one excuse or another. When I was ready, I told her that the reason I wasn't leaving dd with her anymore was b/c she made inappropriate comments to her. I don't want to ramble here, just remember...changing a relationship with a BP is hard, but it is well worth it and you are not alone on this path. If you ever need suggestions or ideas on how to handle a particular situation...post and we will respond. Also... be kind to yourself. Peace, love and light, Tucan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Hey, it sounds like you're beating yourself up now. I agree with what many others have said about taking care of your kids. But cut yourself some slack for not noticing what was normal from the begining too--how could you? I keep hearing people saying how they had the wool pulled over their eyes for a long time. It happened to me--we were raised like all of this was normal. At least you know now and you can start to make changes. I think that's very observant of you and very strong. There was a time when I actually envisioned allowing my mother to babysit my children someday---I do not have children yet, but I know that I can never allow that to happen. I can see where it would be easy to fall into that trap because that is what people in normal families do. If you're like me you're going to realize a lot isn't normal in your family and a lot isn't fair. But protecting your kids is a great motivation for you to get through this. Sometimes, I think of how I'd want my children to be treated to help me get a reality check on how I can allow myself to be treated--it works! Protecting someone else can be empowering because it can lead you to see where you need to protect yourself. Your nada will probably freak out at first as you set limits, but mine actually has changed her behavior DRASTICALLY since I've started setting them (around last June). It can get better and even if it doesn't--it will get easier for you. It worked for me to think of just one thing I would insist on at a time, that I could be really consistant about. Protecting your son sounds like a good place to start. SWOE has a whole section on setting boundaries that I found really helpful. Good luck! and keep me posted. Trish > Dee, on paper, I wouldnt allow it either. I cringe just writing it. > But strangely, sadly, it has been the norm for me and everyone > around nada. Like it is expected. And all at once, I have come to > terms that a) she more than likely is BPD, and I never really > bothered to label her " personality " before, and I have allowed > myself and my kids and husband to put up with all of this. Its hard, > almost as hard as dealing with nada, and I have tremendous guilt > from it. I feel awful, and I dont know where to begin to pick up the > pieces........ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 > > Dee, on paper, I wouldnt allow it either. I cringe just writing it. > But strangely, sadly, it has been the norm for me and everyone > around nada. Like it is expected. And all at once, I have come to > terms that a) she more than likely is BPD, and I never really > bothered to label her " personality " before, and I have allowed > myself and my kids and husband to put up with all of this. Its hard, > almost as hard as dealing with nada, and I have tremendous guilt > from it. I feel awful, and I dont know where to begin to pick up the > pieces........ > My heart went out to you when I read this. Please don't buy into your nada's view of you over this. You let your family and yourself go on with this because you didn't know how NOT to. At least IMHO. That is the case for me. I kept going with mine, in the hope that things would get better if only this.... if only that..... Ok she's difficult but other people have difficult relatives and don't keep bleating about it. and so on. Also, in the mistaken belief that she actually did love me like ohter people's mums loved their children. Secretly always hoping that one day i would feel it and things would be OK. It is NORMAL to assume that our parents love us in a normal way. Isn't that how all family abuse gets hidden? Someone with BPD may or may not MEAN to be abusive (I've read some of the debates on this) but the effects certainly are abusive. All abuse has to have its roots in making the abused feel that it is normal/deserved/shameful dirty secret etc etc. Funnily enough i did not break away for me, but when things got too bad with my kids (in earlier posts). As a result her nastinees to me became so obvious that i could begin to believe it was nastiness and not me making her sad, though i did not know why. I have felt guilty over going nc constantly. Before finding this place I lived with it by accepting that guilt as a necessary payment to keep the poison from spreading into 'the next generation' if I could. I am hopeful now that maybe I can shed some of that guilt, with the help of this group and some careful research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 > ........> > > > Dee, on paper, I wouldnt allow it either. I cringe just writing it. > But strangely, sadly, it has been the norm for me and everyone > around nada. Like it is expected. And all at once, I have come to > terms that a) she more than likely is BPD, and I never really > bothered to label her " personality " before, and I have allowed > myself and my kids and husband to put up with all of this. Its hard, > almost as hard as dealing with nada, and I have tremendous guilt > from it. I feel awful, and I dont know where to begin to pick up the > pieces........ > Nurse, This was the same for me, and it wasn't until I was 57 years old that I just couldn't take it any more. Nada flipped out on a family vacation, while I was trying to calm my 3 year old grandson who was having a temper tantrum. Yes - a 3 year old and an 82 year old having temper tantrums at the same time - LOL! It took me a year of 'rare contact' until I found the courage to go no contact, and at that time I also first learned about BPD. I felt awful, too, and went into a deep depression for 3 - 4 months. But I was already in therapy, had prior experience with depression, and had already healed a great deal - all of which were things that helped me through yet another difficult step. I think if you can get a handle on the guilt, you will be able to work yourself through all of this. Most of us have had to deal with this guilt - because it was one of the most used ways that nada controlled us. You do not need to solve all the problems at one time. This is a process, and it will take time. As for your children, you will be helping them by not allowing nada to abuse them, and you will also be an example to them of how you can change a situation when you realize that it has to be changed. It takes courage, but I believe for a parent, there is no courage as strong as that courage used to protect our children. Keep on posting - you will get a great deal of support and understanding. Take care, Sylvia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 > Sylvia, and all others who replied with words of advice, and true wisdom. I now realize, I cant fix it overnight, heck, I cant fix it at all... But it is a process, probly a long one. I had the " light bulb " effect, realized thyere was a real medical (psychological) , urgent situation, and automatically I wanted to immediately " fix it " . I dont know if you read in an earlier post, but me and husb and kids LIVE IN NADAS HOUSE (!!!), So you can imagine my sense of urgency, as nobody can take it anymore, we have all had enough. I wish we could just leave, right now, and never look back. But, as you know, due to many things, doing that with a family is not really possible...where would I go right away? All that gives me comfort now, is that it is not MY problem, and we can makes true plans to get ourselves out of this situation.....I must admit, on a lighter side.... when I read things about people going NC with nadas, I get jealous... lol... its a bit harder for me to do that in the same house...lol albeit, I do it, alot!!! But it often ends up being worse, as in " you are rotten, rotten to the core, ignoring your mother, you know that? " and.. " you can forgive other people who do nothing for you, but you dont talk to your own mother for 2 days? You are so evil " and so on.... but at least I get 1 or 2 days of quiet. Quiet, but not peace...... thanks , I feel so welcome, understood, and unfortunately part of a group nobody chose to be part of, but at least we can support eachother in the meantime..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Ah nurse, I did not understand that you live together. I have been sick through most of the holidays and am way behind on mail. How tough that must be! Good luck on getting yourselves away from that situation. I am fortunate that I live almost 1000 miles away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 > > I dont know if you read in an earlier post, but me and husb and >kids LIVE IN NADAS HOUSE (!!!), So you can imagine my sense of >urgency, as nobody can take it anymore, we have all had enough. I had read that, but it had escaped me. I honestly don't know how you do it. I am not an only child, but my two sisters were 10 and 12 when I was born and were out of the house by the time I was 10. This left me in the role of an only in some ways. I was definitely the most enmeshed with my mother. I really bought into the idea that I was the one who would 'take care' of my parents. I think it was doing just that that finally got me searching for an answer to what was wrong with my mother. I finally found my answer in August of 2004. My life since then has changed dramatically as I have change myself and gotten much healthier and much less enmeshed. I feel it has saved my life. At no time in my life since I left home for school and then marriage have I thought I could live with her again even for a day. I can't imagine anything worse. No wonder your mother feels entitled to saying anything she wants to your children. After all, YOU OWE HER!!!!!!!! I hope for your sake and that of your children, you and your husband will sit down and make a plan to get out of there as quickly as posssible. Even in " normal " families, to try to live together strains every nerve and relationship to the max. I hope you can get you and your family a life of your own. Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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