Re: on message from general counsel on dietetics-list

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I don't understand how members of an organization are

construed as " price fixing " by discussing salaries

around the country on that organization's e-mail list,

BUT THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF IS NOT DOING SO WHEN

MEMBERS AND THE PUBLIC PURCHASE A BOOK FILLED WITH

SALARY INFORMATION PUBLISHED BY THAT SAME ORGANIZATION

(FOR A LARGE FEE I MIGHT ADD). The caps are to mark

the difference as the sentence was rather long. I

must plead ignorance in this area ).

Somebody forwarded the note to me as I am not on that

list for the moment. I just got so tired of all the

griping on that list. It tended to put a sour taste

in my mouth and left me irritated---so I left the

irritation behind. I do like the tone list members

have built for this list. Helpful, curious, sharing

of information.

Ellen

=====

Ellen Hansson, MEd, RD, LDN

ISeeSpots Farm

Sheep: Lambs, adults, wool

www.iseespots.com

[Guest guest]

It's a federal law. Let it go. Use your energy to grow your career.

Beverly Price, RD, MA

For a free subscription to the JumpStart e-newsletter or to Join the JumpStart Listserve, log on to

www.gettingthatjumpstart.com

Jump Start Consulting, LLC

Seminars and Distance Learning Products for Continuing Education

Huntington Woods, Michigan

Jump Start Business School (sm)

October 25th and 26th, 2003

San , TX

Hello all, Are you all as mad as I am about that snotty note posted

on dietetics List by "our" ADA general counsel?!!! We aren't

allowed to discuss salaries because it might be construed as price

fixing! Let Market forces decide?! The ADA doesn't want any

trouble and is watching out for us?! GRRR.

I didn't reply on the list because I want to present a reasoned

argument against this decision. Any input?

Adrienne Ostroff Burns,MS, RD, LDN, Berwyn, PA

[Guest guest]

So the whining finally got to you, eh? What a bunch of nerds.

Re: on message from general counsel on dietetics-list

It's a federal law. Let it go. Use your energy to grow your career.Beverly Price, RD, MAFor a free subscription to the JumpStart e-newsletter or to Join the JumpStart Listserve, log on towww.gettingthatjumpstart.comJump Start Consulting, LLC Seminars and Distance Learning Products for Continuing EducationHuntington Woods, Michigan

Jump Start Business School (sm)October 25th and 26th, 2003San , TX

Hello all, Are you all as mad as I am about that snotty note posted on dietetics List by "our" ADA general counsel?!!! We aren't allowed to discuss salaries because it might be construed as price fixing! Let Market forces decide?! The ADA doesn't want any trouble and is watching out for us?! GRRR. I didn't reply on the list because I want to present a reasoned argument against this decision. Any input? Adrienne Ostroff Burns,MS, RD, LDN, Berwyn, PA

[Guest guest]

I am working on my several careers( I am a jewelry maker, as well as

a RD)and I have very little energy actually. I am just peeved that

my hard earned money that I pay as dues, as I believe in supporting

the ADA in general, is going to pay this pompous _____ lawyer, who

actually did not cite any law that applied. He supposed and said it

looked bad in case the ADA gets sued for price fixing. But now I'm

going to leave it alone for now. Adrienne

> It's a federal law. Let it go. Use your energy to grow your

career.

>

> Beverly Price, RD, MA

>

> For a free subscription to the JumpStart e-newsletter or to Join

the

> JumpStart Listserve, log on to

> <A

HREF= " www.gettingthatjumpstart.com " >www.gettingthatjumpstart.com</A>

> Jump Start Consulting, LLC

> Seminars and Distance Learning Products for Continuing Education

> Huntington Woods, Michigan

>

> Jump Start Business School (sm)

> October 25th and 26th, 2003

> San , TX

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/7/03 9:49:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> burnsao@n... writes:

>

> > Hello all, Are you all as mad as I am about that snotty note

posted

> > on dietetics List by " our " ADA general counsel?!!! We aren't

> > allowed to discuss salaries because it might be construed as

price

> > fixing! Let Market forces decide?! The ADA doesn't want any

> > trouble and is watching out for us?! GRRR.

> > I didn't reply on the list because I want to present a

reasoned

> > argument against this decision. Any input?

> > Adrienne Ostroff Burns,MS, RD, LDN, Berwyn, PA

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi-

Yes, some of the discussions on the dietetics list get a bit

weird. I use my delete button frequently. But I have been

impressed at how willing the RD's are in general to help one another

on both lists.

And I agree with your assessment on the the price fixing charge.

Adrienne

-- In rd-usa , Hansson <buffgeese@y...> wrote:

> Hi,

>

> I don't understand how members of an organization are

> construed as " price fixing " by discussing salaries

> around the country on that organization's e-mail list,

> BUT THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF IS NOT DOING SO WHEN

> MEMBERS AND THE PUBLIC PURCHASE A BOOK FILLED WITH

> SALARY INFORMATION PUBLISHED BY THAT SAME ORGANIZATION

> (FOR A LARGE FEE I MIGHT ADD). The caps are to mark

> the difference as the sentence was rather long. I

> must plead ignorance in this area ).

>

> Somebody forwarded the note to me as I am not on that

> list for the moment. I just got so tired of all the

> griping on that list. It tended to put a sour taste

> in my mouth and left me irritated---so I left the

> irritation behind. I do like the tone list members

> have built for this list. Helpful, curious, sharing

> of information.

>

> Ellen

>

>

> =====

> Ellen Hansson, MEd, RD, LDN

> ISeeSpots Farm

> Sheep: Lambs, adults, wool

> www.iseespots.com

[Guest guest]

1. Membership in ADA is optional, not mandatory. If you don't like how they use your dues money, put it into something you feel is worthwhile. I have not belonged in 5 years and the time away has greatly improved my attitude about myself as well as my career.

2. If Suzanne Sommers can make as much money as she does on her diet advice it proves that the only thing limiting dietitians' incomes...is not whether or not they can share salary information...it is dietitians themselves. Take a risk, leave ADA, and write your own ticket. You may not have a scapegoat for career frustrations, but your new career ceiling just may eliminate the need for one. You all are giving ADA way too much power over your personal happiness.

3. This conversation has been going around the listserves for the 8 years I have had email. It never changes, those who complain never have solutions, and it only advances an image of us as a group of people who lack the ability to come together with positive energy and work for a greater good. Sheez, would YOU pay for a pricey consultation from someone who seems so inherently unhappy with what they do? We are supposed to be INSPIRING people to feel better about themselves. The first step in that direction is feeling good enough about OURSELVES to take charge of our destinies whether or not an organization that has collected money from us supports us in that mission.

[Guest guest]

First of all, it was my impression the purpose of THIS list is it's a place

where we can discuss such issues, if we so choose, or any other issue we

felt would be frowned on by ADA.

Second of all, this website was sent to the dietetics-l list and I thought

it was very good. Apparently, this is a common discussion among more than

just RDs! http://www.content-exchange.com/cx/html/newsletter/2-4/wl2-4.htm

Margie

-- Marjorie Geiser, RD, NSCA-CPT

MEG Fitness

Registered Dietitian

ACE and NSCA certified personal trainer

Secretary, NSCA Personal Trainer Special Interest Group

Southern California

megfit@...

rubyrubberprincess wrote:

Hello all,

Are you all as mad as I am about that snotty note posted

on dietetics List by "our" ADA general counsel?!!! We aren't

allowed to discuss salaries because it might be construed as price

fixing! Let Market forces decide?! The ADA doesn't want any

trouble and is watching out for us?! GRRR.

I didn't reply on the list because I want to present a reasoned

argument against this decision. Any input?

Adrienne Ostroff Burns,MS, RD, LDN, Berwyn, PA

[Guest guest]

Margie,

My objection to this is not that people talk about it, people can talk about whatever they wish. My objection is that TALKING about something and not TAKING action only builds resentment, and it seems to paralyze a lot of people out of taking care of themselves in healthy ways. They stay angry, they feel victimized, they lose the motivation that once brought them into this field. And by bringing that energy to a list without a desire to find a positive solution, it has the potential to bring others down. Negative energy has a way of perpetuating itself far past its source.

The information IS available in the salary survey, it is not being withheld. ADA has asked that the topic not be discussed on their listserve. That is their listserve, they run it, they can make whatever rules they wish. If you participate, it is your obligation to follow the rules of the owner of the list. If you don't like it, start your own listserve. I have my own private listserve and it has rules too. One of them is "if you have a problem present it in a way that encourages problem solving." It keeps people focused on encouraging professional growth. I started it when I got tired of the politics on other listserves keeping me from saying and doing what I felt was best.

I am challenging those of you who are unhappy with ADA to LEAVE THE ORGANIZATION. It doesn't have to be a permanent decision, you can always rejoin if you miss it.

My problem is when people give money to an organization, they learn that the organization does not do with the money what they want it to, and they keep renewing their dues. That only encourages the organization to be nonresponsive because they don't lose money for not responding. That's not anything that can be blamed on anyone but the person who wrote the checks for renewal.

In counseling we call the definition of insanity, repeating the same behavior over and over again and expecting a different outcome. This whole situation is definitely insanity.

Monika

[Guest guest]

Monika,

I totally agree with what you're saying. I also feel that griping about

what we are told we can and cannot discuss is counterproductive and I don't

care to expand on a gripe session, myself, either.

My point is that in previous discussions on what others charge/get paid,

HAS been productive and I would hope that people who feel the need to ask

questions along this line don't feel intimidated to do so on this list.

I distinctly recall one person (can't remember which list, now), after reading

a discussion on this topic (fees/rates), stood her ground when applying for

a new job (and got it at the rate she asked for), rather than feeling that

she had no choice! It wasn't a matter of colluding as an industry on rates,

but of empowering a person to believe in what they felt they were worth!

As for what to charge in private practice, I learned much of this in school, and as time went on refined it for my practice, but it seems many don't get this information in school, so I can see why it comes up so often.

Margie

-- Marjorie Geiser, RD, NSCA-CPT

MEG Fitness

Registered Dietitian

ACE and NSCA certified personal trainer

Secretary, NSCA Personal Trainer Special Interest Group

Southern California

megfit@...

Neuroendolist wrote:

Margie,

My objection to this is not that people talk about it, people can talk about whatever they wish. My objection is that TALKING about something and not TAKING action only builds resentment, and it seems to paralyze a lot of people out of taking care of themselves in healthy ways. They stay angry, they feel victimized, they lose the motivation that once brought them into this field. And by bringing that energy to a

list without a desire to find a positive solution, it has the potential to

bring others down. Negative energy has a way of perpetuating itself far

past its source.

The information IS available in the salary survey, it is not being withheld. ADA has asked that the topic not be discussed on their listserve. That is their listserve, they run it, they

can make whatever rules they wish. If you participate, it is your obligation

to follow the rules of the owner of the list. If you don't like it, start your own listserve. I have my own private listserve and it has rules too. One of them is "if you have a problem present it in a way that encourages problem solving." It keeps people focused on encouraging professional growth. I started it when I got tired of the politics on other listserves keeping me from saying and doing what I felt was best.

I am challenging those of you who are unhappy with ADA to LEAVE THE ORGANIZATION. It doesn't have to be a permanent decision, you can always rejoin if you miss it.

My problem is when people give money to

an organization, they learn that the organization does not do with the money

what they want it to, and they keep renewing their dues. That only encourages

the organization to be nonresponsive because they don't lose money for not

responding. That's not anything that can be blamed on anyone but the person

who wrote the checks for renewal.

In counseling we call the definition of

insanity, repeating the same behavior over and over again and expecting a

different outcome. This whole situation is definitely insanity.

Monika

[Guest guest]

That's why I created Jump Start Business School--to teach dietititians and other healthcare professionals about management and marketing strategies for their business. My seminars and self-study manuals/products empower the RD to make those types of decisions by learning the mechanisms --kind of like the "biochemistry of business."

We actually do market to universities and internship programs as well because today's student is so interested and business was once again left out of the Didactic Dietetic Program (or whatever they call it) when the core curriculum was last revised.

Beverly Price, RD, MA

For a free subscription to the JumpStart e-newsletter or to Join the JumpStart Listserve, log on to

www.gettingthatjumpstart.com

Jump Start Consulting, LLC

Seminars and Distance Learning Products for Continuing Education

Huntington Woods, Michigan

Jump Start Business School (sm)

October 25th and 26th, 2003

San , TX

As for what to charge in private practice, I learned much of this in school, and as time went on refined it for my practice, but it seems many don't get this information in school, so I can see why it comes up so often.

Margie

[Guest guest]

Isn't one of the reasons someone started up this particular

listserv/group was to have the freedom to discuss anything?

Including fees? Maybe someone should have a listserv for ADA-

bashing. I'll bet that would be interesting!

I am on this list to learn and network for income

possibilities. Now, if someone has an

issue with some other nutrition-related company that would be of use

to everyone, let's hear about that. Or does someone have a very

interesting job to describe? Colleen V. Serrada, MS, RD, LD

Maine

> It's a federal law. Let it go. Use your energy to grow your

career.

>

> Beverly Price, RD, MA

>

> For a free subscription to the JumpStart e-newsletter or to Join

the

> JumpStart Listserve, log on to

> <A

HREF= " www.gettingthatjumpstart.com " >www.gettingthatjumpstart.com</A>

> Jump Start Consulting, LLC

> Seminars and Distance Learning Products for Continuing Education

> Huntington Woods, Michigan

>

> Jump Start Business School (sm)

> October 25th and 26th, 2003

> San , TX

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/7/03 9:49:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> burnsao@n... writes:

>

> > Hello all, Are you all as mad as I am about that snotty note

posted

> > on dietetics List by " our " ADA general counsel?!!! We aren't

> > allowed to discuss salaries because it might be construed as

price

> > fixing! Let Market forces decide?! The ADA doesn't want any

> > trouble and is watching out for us?! GRRR.

> > I didn't reply on the list because I want to present a reasoned

> > argument against this decision. Any input?

> > Adrienne Ostroff Burns,MS, RD, LDN, Berwyn, PA

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

And this is why I enjoy your list so much, Beverly! It's been one of the

most beneficial and educational resources I have found! And, I love the outside-the-box

thinking everyone encourages on there.

I look forward to the online options of your business school in October,

too!

Margie

-- Marjorie Geiser, RD, NSCA-CPT

MEG Fitness

Registered Dietitian

ACE and NSCA certified personal trainer

Secretary, NSCA Personal Trainer Special Interest Group

Southern California

megfit@...

BPLBS@... wrote:

That's why I created Jump Start Business School--to teach dietititians

and other healthcare professionals about management and marketing strategies

for their business. My seminars and self-study manuals/products empower

the RD to make those types of decisions by learning the mechanisms --kind

of like the "biochemistry of business."

We actually do market to universities and internship programs as well because

today's student is so interested and business was once again left out of

the Didactic Dietetic Program (or whatever they call it) when the core curriculum

was last revised.

Beverly Price, RD, MA

For a free subscription to the JumpStart e-newsletter

or to Join the JumpStart Listserve, log on to

www.gettingthatjumpstart.com

Jump Start Consulting, LLC

Seminars and Distance Learning Products for Continuing Education

Huntington Woods, Michigan

Jump Start Business School (sm)

October 25th and 26th, 2003

San , TX

In a message dated 8/10/03 12:04:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, megfit@...

writes:

As

for what to charge in private practice, I learned much of this in school,

and as time went on refined it for my practice, but it seems many don't get

this information in school, so I can see why it comes up so often.

Margie