Re: No help for Alec/long...again (sorry)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/01 7:59:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Bosocks1@... writes:

<<

What a mess..

Ron, who's heart is now as completely broken as it ever has been.

>>

I'm so sorry Ron. :-(

So sad for you and your family.

kandie

Kandie and (9 years)

* 's website: <A

HREF= " http://kidsactivities.homestead.com/spage.html " >spage</A>

*

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/01 7:59:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Bosocks1@... writes:

<<

Anyway, I got here and observed a 5 year old running the house. Alec ate

what he wanted when he wanted it, got what he wanted and if he didn't get

it,

he pouted and cried.

I introduced chores and allowances (with Terry) and refused to give into the

" go get me this " routine. Basically, I attempted to teach Alec some sort of

independance and self reliance. (I taught him to tie his shoes, make his

bed, take out the garbage, ride his bike, skate and wipe his ass). >>

This sound a lot like is now actually.

He still doesn't understand money, toys, gifts, etc. He expects them every

day and gets mad when we can't or won't buy them.

I'm thinking it's all a part of autism. I don't know.

kandie

Kandie and (9 years)

* 's website: <A

HREF= " http://kidsactivities.homestead.com/spage.html " >spage</A>

*

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/2001 11:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,

kandiedem@... writes:

> This sound a lot like is now actually.

> He still doesn't understand money, toys, gifts, etc. He expects them every

> day and gets mad when we can't or won't buy them.

>

> I'm thinking it's all a part of autism. I don't know.

>

> kandie

>

>

Sometimes I wonder if Alec isn't HFA...but at this point, I don't have

another 2 grand to find out...plus we can't get the co-operation from

bio-dad, plus Terry is starting to get worried about being labeled

Munchausen's by proxy...

Ron

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/2001 12:27:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

smgaska@... writes:

> Ron and Terry,

> I am so sorry for your family and what you are being put through when all

> you are trying to do is the best for Alec.

> Don't you get a chance to tell your side? To be able to tell about Ex

> calling for help and bringing Alec home? Can't your refute his lies?

> My last thought is, why not keep a video camera handy and try recording some

> of the problem areas with Alec. Then you could have proof, or call in

> social services to assist you or legal aide?

> Sue

>

>

Well, we haven't been in front of the judge yet...we have a lawyer and she

has documented statements from Terry...

The Rocket Scientist bio-dad, wrote some incriminating letters to

Terry...still, this psych report is supposed to be

" unbiased " ...translation...bio dad goes in and lies....then they make a

determination....this psych guy says Alec's enviroment is to blame for his

NVLD, depression and he cannot say ADHD because bio-dad, " doesn't have any

problems at his house. "

Perhaps we can tell our side in court, but I suspect the judge will look

heavily at the " non biased " psych eval.

I'd love for our lawyer to be able to question him...he can't hold a lie for

long...he'll crack and cry...he's a wuss trying to be a man.

Ron

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/2001 11:24:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,

tloggie@... writes:

> I give you guys all my stength. I don't have much left with all the stuff I

> am going though but you can have what is left.

> I am just to tried to fight any more.

> But I do think if it was me I would keep doing what is best for Alec's and

> know that sooner or later bio-dad or Alec's will tell the truth. Maybe try

> to tell Alec's that if he does not tell the truth then it will hurt you,

> Terry, Abbie and Sam. I don't think it would hurt to try and tell him that.

>

> Just my 2 cents and I hope everything works out.

>

> Lori

>

Thanks, Lori...that made cry, you offering what was left of your strength. I

don't know what I did before I found this list, I've never known such

supportive people in my life and I think I have some good friends in the

" real world. "

******Terry******

Wife to: Ron

Mom to: Alec 10, NVLD - Sam 4, Autism - Abbie 3, PDD-NOS

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/2001 11:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,

kandiedem@... writes:

> I'm thinking it's all a part of autism. I don't know.

>

>

Alec isn't autistic, tho, so it can't be that. I'm sure some of it is due to

his other difficulties tho because we have been working on this issue for at

least 5 years with only a little improvement....

******Terry******

Wife to: Ron

Mom to: Alec 10, NVLD - Sam 4, Autism - Abbie 3, PDD-NOS

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/2001 12:28:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,

smgaska@... writes:

> Don't you get a chance to tell your side? To be able to tell about Ex

> calling for help and bringing Alec home? Can't your refute his lies?

> My last thought is, why not keep a video camera handy and try recording some

> of the problem areas with Alec. Then you could have proof, or call in

> social services to assist you or legal aide?

> Sue

>

>

You know, that's not a bad idea, Sue! Maybe I should have done that in the

beginning...trouble is that Mike is able to convince people that if Alec does

indeed have problems that they are only present in our house and therefore

have to be being caused by his living with handicapped children. Oh, it just

sucks...

******Terry******

Wife to: Ron

Mom to: Alec 10, NVLD - Sam 4, Autism - Abbie 3, PDD-NOS

[Guest guest]

Ron,

The entire situation sucks and there are no good answers. I hope that

whatever you guys have to do, Alec eventually gets what he needs. Maybe if

bio-dad sees it 24/7, he'll get the picture. Somehow I doubt it.

Sissi

[Guest guest]

Wow Ron and Terry,

You sure have your hands full. I can at least understand how you feel becuase I

grew up street wise to. I think I would have knocked bio-dad into next week. It

sure takes alot to stay calm and not hit him.

I give you guys all my stength. I don't have much left with all the stuff I am

going though but you can have what is left.

I am just to tried to fight any more.

But I do think if it was me I would keep doing what is best for Alec's and know

that sooner or later bio-dad or Alec's will tell the truth. Maybe try to tell

Alec's that if he does not tell the truth then it will hurt you, Terry, Abbie

and Sam. I don't think it would hurt to try and tell him that.

Just my 2 cents and I hope everything works out.

Lori

No help for Alec/long...again (sorry)

Here's another long winded post by Ron...sorry guys....

Well, as Terry posted we got the psych eval back from the court appointed

psychologist Friday...and it was full of lies.

Alec lied and/or denied having problems other than Sam " hitting me every

day...sometimes two or three times a day and giving me bruises. " He said he

was sad sometimes.

This statement alone tells me that Alec was coached. Alec has never

complained about bruises from Sam. And as Terry posted Sam has never struck

out at Alec unless Alec has invaded his space or has tried to make Sam do

things Sam does not want to do.

Bio-dad, once again lied. His PHD is a lie, he lied about ever having

problems with Alec, he lied about Alec ever crying at his house, he lied

about his history with Terry, (for instance, he says Terry left him for

another man with no mention of the fact that he was receiving oral sex from

another woman in the office right next to Terry's at work several years

earlier that broke up the marriage).

Bio-dads statements to the pschologist, to the court appointed guardian for

Alec were full of half truths.

This is the 4th eval Alec has gotten.

We certainly didn't want to " shop " Alec around for a diagnosis as we were

accused of by Terry's ex, Mike, a.k.a. bio-dad. Any treatment Alec was

receiving were at the advise of professionals because of their dx's. Alec's

mutliple dx's were given because bio-dad threaten to sue the first clinic if

they didn't dc treatment of Alec. Bio-dad told them he was a PHD " in the

field " and there was nothing wrong with Alec..that all Alec's problems were

caused by Terry. We sought a second opinion via advice from counsel and the

psychiatrist dx'd Alec ADHD/depression. He recommended a full psychological

testing. Alec had stated several times to us he didn't want to live anymore

and at one time was observed trying to choke himself with his hands..

This testing revealed a non verbal learning disability. These 3 evals were

done without the cooperation from bio-dad who refused to speak with any

counelors or psychiatrists other than to threaten to sue. He refused to

participate in any treatment, dc'd meds, (which were an altternative to

counseling because bio-dad would not participate in family counseling and no

counselors would see Alec without his particaption). He refused to put any

of this stuff on his insurance. I paid all of this stuff out of pocket.

This 4th eval, he did speak to one cuz he had to...then he lied saying Alec

has no problems at his house. (Gee, he has him on weekends, Alec eats what

he wants, when he wants, goes to movies and plays Nintendo all weekend. I'd

have no problems either.) Still, up until a few months ago, bio-dad spanked

Alec 1-2 times per weekend visit. We suspect he was told to stop this by his

lawyer.

Before I arrived on the scene, Terry tells me there were numerous incidents

where Alec was spanked by bio-dad and he, (bio-dad) often stated he thought

there was something " wrong " with Alec and wondered if Alec did not have ADHD.

To " calm " Alec, a history of eating out constantly and getting the Alec just

about anything he wanted on a daily basis was the order of the day.

When I arrived on the scene, bio-dad gone of course, (that would have been

too weird any other way) I noticed some peculiar things.

Now, let me say, I was brought up poor. So, like a most kids, I wanted

everything and heard " no " a lot. I have no concept of upper middle class and

have no idea how UMC parents deal with this. Perhaps it is normal to buy a

kid a toy or two several times a week?

On weekend visists with bio-dad, it was not uncommon for Terry to get a call

from Mike, Mike saying he can't do a thing with Alec and will she talk with

him. Bio-dad has brought Alec home early on several occassions because of

behavior.

Never, has this ever been mentioned.

Anyway, I got here and observed a 5 year old running the house. Alec ate

what he wanted when he wanted it, got what he wanted and if he didn't get it,

he pouted and cried.

I introduced chores and allowances (with Terry) and refused to give into the

" go get me this " routine. Basically, I attempted to teach Alec some sort of

independance and self reliance. (I taught him to tie his shoes, make his

bed, take out the garbage, ride his bike, skate and wipe his ass). All these

things came very slowly for Alec...while attempting to teach him these

things, bio-dad would do these things for him and tell Alec if he rode his

bike and fell, " you'll bleed to death. "

Alec's frame of mind was, 'if you aren't doing for me, getting for me, or

buying for me, you don't love me.' Alec eventually learned to do these

things and now enjoys riding his bike in the neighborhood, fixing his own

skates and playing with what limited kids are in the neighborhood.

He still has the frame of mind of any chore is a punishment.

Alec has always been scattered. Given a task, like " go water the dog " Alec

will get the water dish, get distracted and make it halfway to the sink or

" forget " to bring the bowl back.

Fastforward 1.5 years ago:

Alec continued to have problems completing homework assignments, continued to

fight eating dinner....if Alec had it in his mind he didn't " like "

something...something that had been fixed for him previously which he " loved "

he could take 1.5 hours to eat...literally.

Alec cannot not sit in a chair without moving, turning upside down. Alec

cannot stand still or talk without moving. He paces.

Bio-dad was told all these things. By now, he had a new live in girlfriend

with 2 kids. According to bio-dad, this woman stated that she didn't

understand Americans. In the Philipinnes, they do not have ADHD, (I quickly

pointed out that I doubt they have it in the Congo either) and ADHD and other

childhood disorders are just a way for weak Americans not to cope.

Ironically, I was listinening to Rush Limbaugh one day, (by accident..I hate

the fool), and he stated that alcoholics were just weak people, (I am one in

recovery...9.5 years without a drink) and parents who want to search out a

disorder for their children such as ADHD or bi-polar are weak parents who do

not want to discipline their childrend. He continued to say that these

disorders came up with feminism, that these disorders were mainly in boys and

that medicating or providing counseling for these boys were a way to try and

get these boys to (act like girls).

Bio-dad repeated these same thoughts almost verbatim a few weeks later when

Alec ran away from home after being told to pick up pine cones in the

yard...about a 1/2 hour chore. Terry then, told Mike she would like to get

Alec evaled to see if his behavior was controllable by him or if there was

not in fact something wrong with Alec physically. The thought here was we

didn't want to " punish " Alec over and over again for on going behaviors that

he had no control of.

Meanwhile, Sam and Abbie are getting in home OT/ST/PT. Our OT, who to this

day is a very good friend, often stated that she thought Alec was

ADD/ADHD...something and asked repeatedly if we ever considered him being

evaled. She would often observe Alec literally bouncing off the walls,

screaming, yelling, constantly in motion and not able to stand still.

About 7-9 months ago, Alec lay crying on the floor, uncontrollable tremors,

not able to move. He couldn't remember his dads phone number. Terry called

me. I got home within 15 minutes...by now this had been going on for about

1/2 hour to 45 min. When bio-dad was put on the phone, he told Alec that he

was being ridiculous and to get up from the floor. A friend of Terry's who

holds a degree in child counseling came over and finally was able to talk

Alec down.

Terry and I said " fuck it " , took our chances with being sued by bio-dad and

took him to be evaled.

And so here we are. We tried to do our best by Alec only to be thwarted and

undermined by a red-neck, educated way beyond his intelligence, close minded

bio-dad who has a personal history of psychiatric problems and who self

admittedly has been diagnosed ADHD. He has never been treated for this

because, " I am prosperous and it doesn't effect me. " He fails to recognize

that it effects a number of people around him.

I don't want to come off as Mr. Macho or anything but my personal history up

until 10 years ago is extremely street wise. I have tried to change my ways

over the last 10 years and have been somewhat successful. Yet, I find myself

wanting to beat this asshole into next week somewhere. Yet, it's assholes

like this that have you thrown in jail after taunting. Bio-dad reminds me of

one of those yap, yap dogs who bite at your ankles. When you finally have

had enough and kick at the little son of a bitch, you are called a animal

abuser.

At this point, Terry is considering letting Alec go. Alec has not been

truthful about how he feels. He refuses to admit now the times he has stated

he wanted to die. He protects bio-dad, (which I consider normal) and the boy

can only see green fields over there. He has never had responsibility at his

dads such as homework, chores etc.

Bio-dad says he believes in letting him be a kid. He says this in the

context of Alec doing chores. Alec's chore list here are as follows: Make

your bed, clean your room, pick up the living room at night and feed the

dogs. He receives an allowance of 10 dollars a month for this. If he

desires more money, he can do work in the yard or around the house. He also

can come with me to work. I use him to clean up job sights and pay him 6

dollars an hour for this.

This is a very sad time. I am scared for Alec. Sam and Abbie, espcially

Sam, will not be able to be explained why Alec is not here anymore.

I am afraid that once the problems arise at bio-dads, and they will, he will

not be man enough to admit it and he will not seek help for Alec. Bio-dad

has never told anyone about his calls to Terry about not being able to handle

Alec nor of his suspicions of Alec having ADHD. He has never told anyone

besides Terry that Alec " certainly has disappointed me and is not the son I

would have hoped to have. "

We just don't know how much more fight we have in us. Do we continue to

fight and expose Alec to this? Do we fight and hope we can get the truth out

of bio-dad and get help for Alec?

Meanwhile, Alec called me from school Friday and told me he had to be picked

up. When asked why he said " for throwing rocks at cars. " Great, " nothing

wrong with Alec " has now been kicked out of school for the day and will more

than likely get detention next Saturday. When bio-dad was informed of this

he wanted to know, " where was all the supervision to allow kids to do this? "

That's it, let's co-sign more bullshit and allow Alec not to take

responsibility for his actions.

What a mess..

Ron, who's heart is now as completely broken as it ever has been.

[Guest guest]

Oh Ron I forgot to say Congrats on the 9 years. I went though rehab when I was

young and foolish. I was more for drugs then drinking but I did do my share of

drinking. I do still drink but only in the summer if you can believe that. And I

drink alot in the summer.

Lori

No help for Alec/long...again (sorry)

In a message dated 10/28/2001 10:57:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bosocks1

writes:

> Here's another long winded post by Ron...sorry guys....

> Well, as Terry posted we got the psych eval back from the court appointed

> psychologist Friday...and it was full of lies.

> Alec lied and/or denied having problems other than Sam " hitting me every

> day...sometimes two or three times a day and giving me bruises. " He said

> he was sad sometimes.

> This statement alone tells me that Alec was coached. Alec has never

> complained about bruises from Sam. And as Terry posted Sam has never

> struck out at Alec unless Alec has invaded his space or has tried to make

> Sam do things Sam does not want to do.

> Bio-dad, once again lied. His PHD is a lie, he lied about ever having

> problems with Alec, he lied about Alec ever crying at his house, he lied

> about his history with Terry, (for instance, he says Terry left him for

> another man with no mention of the fact that he was receiving oral sex from

> another woman in the office right next to Terry's at work several years

> earlier that broke up the marriage).

> Bio-dads statements to the pschologist, to the court appointed guardian for

> Alec were full of half truths.

>

> This is the 4th eval Alec has gotten.

> We certainly didn't want to " shop " Alec around for a diagnosis as we were

> accused of by Terry's ex, Mike, a.k.a. bio-dad. Any treatment Alec was

> receiving were at the advise of professionals because of their dx's.

> Alec's mutliple dx's were given because bio-dad threaten to sue the first

> clinic if they didn't dc treatment of Alec. Bio-dad told them he was a PHD

> " in the field " and there was nothing wrong with Alec..that all Alec's

> problems were caused by Terry. We sought a second opinion via advice from

> counsel and the psychiatrist dx'd Alec ADHD/depression. He recommended a

> full psychological testing. Alec had stated several times to us he didn't

> want to live anymore and at one time was observed trying to choke himself

> with his hands..

> This testing revealed a non verbal learning disability. These 3 evals were

> done without the cooperation from bio-dad who refused to speak with any

> counelors or psychiatrists other than to threaten to sue. He refused to

> participate in any treatment, dc'd meds, (which were an altternative to

> counseling because bio-dad would not participate in family counseling and

> no counselors would see Alec without his particaption). He refused to put

> any of this stuff on his insurance. I paid all of this stuff out of

> pocket.

> This 4th eval, he did speak to one cuz he had to...then he lied saying Alec

> has no problems at his house. (Gee, he has him on weekends, Alec eats what

> he wants, when he wants, goes to movies and plays Nintendo all weekend.

> I'd have no problems either.) Still, up until a few months ago, bio-dad

> spanked Alec 1-2 times per weekend visit. We suspect he was told to stop

> this by his lawyer.

>

> Before I arrived on the scene, Terry tells me there were numerous incidents

> where Alec was spanked by bio-dad and he, (bio-dad) often stated he thought

> there was something " wrong " with Alec and wondered if Alec did not have

> ADHD.

> To " calm " Alec, a history of eating out constantly and getting the Alec

> just about anything he wanted on a daily basis was the order of the day.

> When I arrived on the scene, bio-dad gone of course, (that would have been

> too weird any other way) I noticed some peculiar things.

> Now, let me say, I was brought up poor. So, like a most kids, I wanted

> everything and heard " no " a lot. I have no concept of upper middle class

> and have no idea how UMC parents deal with this. Perhaps it is normal to

> buy a kid a toy or two several times a week?

> On weekend visists with bio-dad, it was not uncommon for Terry to get a

> call from Mike, Mike saying he can't do a thing with Alec and will she talk

> with him. Bio-dad has brought Alec home early on several occassions

> because of behavior.

> Never, has this ever been mentioned.

>

> Anyway, I got here and observed a 5 year old running the house. Alec ate

> what he wanted when he wanted it, got what he wanted and if he didn't get

> it, he pouted and cried.

> I introduced chores and allowances (with Terry) and refused to give into

> the " go get me this " routine. Basically, I attempted to teach Alec some

> sort of independance and self reliance. (I taught him to tie his shoes,

> make his bed, take out the garbage, ride his bike, skate and wipe his ass).

> All these things came very slowly for Alec...while attempting to teach him

> these things, bio-dad would do these things for him and tell Alec if he

> rode his bike and fell, " you'll bleed to death. "

> Alec's frame of mind was, 'if you aren't doing for me, getting for me, or

> buying for me, you don't love me.' Alec eventually learned to do these

> things and now enjoys riding his bike in the neighborhood, fixing his own

> skates and playing with what limited kids are in the neighborhood.

> He still has the frame of mind of any chore is a punishment.

> Alec has always been scattered. Given a task, like " go water the dog " Alec

> will get the water dish, get distracted and make it halfway to the sink or

> " forget " to bring the bowl back.

>

> Fastforward 1.5 years ago:

> Alec continued to have problems completing homework assignments, continued

> to fight eating dinner....if Alec had it in his mind he didn't " like "

> something...something that had been fixed for him previously which he

> " loved " he could take 1.5 hours to eat...literally.

> Alec cannot not sit in a chair without moving, turning upside down. Alec

> cannot stand still or talk without moving. He paces.

> Bio-dad was told all these things. By now, he had a new live in girlfriend

> with 2 kids. According to bio-dad, this woman stated that she didn't

> understand Americans. In the Philipinnes, they do not have ADHD, (I

> quickly pointed out that I doubt they have it in the Congo either) and ADHD

> and other childhood disorders are just a way for weak Americans not to

> cope. Ironically, I was listinening to Rush Limbaugh one day, (by

> accident..I hate the fool), and he stated that alcoholics were just weak

> people, (I am one in recovery...9.5 years without a drink) and parents who

> want to search out a disorder for their children such as ADHD or bi-polar

> are weak parents who do not want to discipline their childrend. He

> continued to say that these disorders came up with feminism, that these

> disorders were mainly in boys and that medicating or providing counseling

> for these boys were a way to try and get these boys to (act like girls).

> Bio-dad repeated these same thoughts almost verbatim a few weeks later when

> Alec ran away from home after being told to pick up pine cones in the

> yard...about a 1/2 hour chore. Terry then, told Mike she would like to get

> Alec evaled to see if his behavior was controllable by him or if there was

> not in fact something wrong with Alec physically. The thought here was we

> didn't want to " punish " Alec over and over again for on going behaviors

> that he had no control of.

>

> Meanwhile, Sam and Abbie are getting in home OT/ST/PT. Our OT, who to this

> day is a very good friend, often stated that she thought Alec was

> ADD/ADHD...something and asked repeatedly if we ever considered him being

> evaled. She would often observe Alec literally bouncing off the walls,

> screaming, yelling, constantly in motion and not able to stand still.

>

> About 7-9 months ago, Alec lay crying on the floor, uncontrollable tremors,

> not able to move. He couldn't remember his dads phone number. Terry

> called me. I got home within 15 minutes...by now this had been going on

> for about 1/2 hour to 45 min. When bio-dad was put on the phone, he told

> Alec that he was being ridiculous and to get up from the floor. A friend

> of Terry's who holds a degree in child counseling came over and finally was

> able to talk Alec down.

>

> Terry and I said " fuck it " , took our chances with being sued by bio-dad and

> took him to be evaled.

>

> And so here we are. We tried to do our best by Alec only to be thwarted

> and undermined by a red-neck, educated way beyond his intelligence, close

> minded bio-dad who has a personal history of psychiatric problems and who

> self admittedly has been diagnosed ADHD. He has never been treated for

> this because, " I am prosperous and it doesn't effect me. " He fails to

> recognize that it effects a number of people around him.

>

> I don't want to come off as Mr. Macho or anything but my personal history

> up until 10 years ago is extremely street wise. I have tried to change my

> ways over the last 10 years and have been somewhat successful. Yet, I find

> myself wanting to beat this asshole into next week somewhere. Yet, it's

> assholes like this that have you thrown in jail after taunting. Bio-dad

> reminds me of one of those yap, yap dogs who bite at your ankles. When you

> finally have had enough and kick at the little son of a bitch, you are

> called a animal abuser.

>

> At this point, Terry is considering letting Alec go. Alec has not been

> truthful about how he feels. He refuses to admit now the times he has

> stated he wanted to die. He protects bio-dad, (which I consider normal)

> and the boy can only see green fields over there. He has never had

> responsibility at his dads such as homework, chores etc.

> Bio-dad says he believes in letting him be a kid. He says this in the

> context of Alec doing chores. Alec's chore list here are as follows: Make

> your bed, clean your room, pick up the living room at night and feed the

> dogs. He receives an allowance of 10 dollars a month for this. If he

> desires more money, he can do work in the yard or around the house. He

> also can come with me to work. I use him to clean up job sights and pay

> him 6 dollars an hour for this.

>

>

> This is a very sad time. I am scared for Alec. Sam and Abbie, espcially

> Sam, will not be able to be explained why Alec is not here anymore.

> I am afraid that once the problems arise at bio-dads, and they will, he

> will not be man enough to admit it and he will not seek help for Alec.

> Bio-dad has never told anyone about his calls to Terry about not being able

> to handle Alec nor of his suspicions of Alec having ADHD. He has never

> told anyone besides Terry that Alec " certainly has disappointed me and is

> not the son I would have hoped to have. "

>

> We just don't know how much more fight we have in us. Do we continue to

> fight and expose Alec to this? Do we fight and hope we can get the truth

> out of bio-dad and get help for Alec?

>

> Meanwhile, Alec called me from school Friday and told me he had to be

> picked up. When asked why he said " for throwing rocks at cars. " Great,

> " nothing wrong with Alec " has now been kicked out of school for the day and

> will more than likely get detention next Saturday. When bio-dad was

> informed of this he wanted to know, " where was all the supervision to allow

> kids to do this? "

> That's it, let's co-sign more bullshit and allow Alec not to take

> responsibility for his actions.

>

> What a mess..

> Ron, who's heart is now as completely broken as it ever has been.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ron and Terry,

I am so sorry for your family and what you are being put through when all

you are trying to do is the best for Alec.

Don't you get a chance to tell your side? To be able to tell about Ex

calling for help and bringing Alec home? Can't your refute his lies?

My last thought is, why not keep a video camera handy and try recording some

of the problem areas with Alec. Then you could have proof, or call in

social services to assist you or legal aide?

Sue

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[Guest guest]

>From: Bosocks1@...

>What a mess..

>Ron, who's heart is now as completely broken as it ever has been.

I can understand why. I wish that I could say something helpful. Just know

that my thoughts are with you.

Amy H

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/29/2001 10:01:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,

ajhelmuth@... writes:

> I can understand why. I wish that I could say something helpful. Just know

> that my thoughts are with you.

>

> Amy H

>

>

thank you Amy...that helps a lot

Ron

[Guest guest]

Ron & Terry,

I have been reading your posts about Alec. I feel for your

family. I can tell just by your posts that there is something wrong

with Alec. Poor guy can't get the help he needs because of his Bio

dad. Ron, you are a good man to love Alec the way you do and fight

for him the best you can. My stepdad is the same way. I never

consider him anything but just dad. I do remeber having alot of the

same problems that Alec has and I am sure he feels a terrible ammount

of pain when it comes to his dad. Alec seems to handle things more

like my little sister though. Always moving and agitated. Sweet thing

but very troubled. She is also very smart. She was dx'd BP this year.

She lies constantly and always has. You wouldnt guess anything was

wrong with her until you really spent some time around her. What

about requesting a surprise home study for both households. That way

maybe the court could see what is going on. I mean if Alec always

gets his way at his dad's house so thats why there isnt a problem

then the social worker should see it and if Alec's dad tries to look

like a " good dad " by setting limits then Alec will most diffenately

have some behaviours right? They would also be able to see how you

guys handle things and what your home is like. Just a thought. You

guys are in my prayers.

Jacquie H

> In a message dated 10/28/2001 6:11:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> thebyks@e... writes:

>

>

> > What about at school? Can you get his teacher to give a

report/testimony?

> >

> > I don't understand how a judge can ignore 3 previous dx's...I

would call &

> > ask those dr's to at least write a letter to the court...explain

what's goin

> > on & try to get them to phone the judge or even testify...

> >

> >

> > -Sara.

> >

> >

> >

>

> The school won't take a stand....they will nod their head...it's a

private

> Catholic school. One teacher is a customer of mine and privately

encourages

> an eval but won't or can't say anything professionally.

> Alec's 3rd grade teacher, when asked her opinion of getting Alec

evaled said,

> " I think it's a good idea. " Of course, we didn't. That was during

our

> " waiting period " when Mike first started his " I'll sue you for

custody if you

> try and get him evaluated. " His 4th grade teacher, last year was

having some

> discipline problems. Alec was on a popsicle stick method where 1

stick was a

> warning, 2 sticks you miss recess and 3 sticks and you miss recess

and have a

> writing assignment...50 times writing the Hail prayer or

something. She

> told Alec's dad, (who by the way she had no right talking to or

making

> decisions with legally since Terry is the custodial parent), that

if Alec

> continued to have problems with talking out of turn and goofing

around in

> class, she would send him to the principals office to " shame " him

into better

> behavior. Mike agreed. Terry had a fit, since, a) she was not

consulted in

> such a decision and we don't believe in shaming a child.

> When Mike found out he was going to therapy and the teacher was to

fill out

> some paperwork, he had more conversation with the teacher. We do

not know

> what was said, but we do know the teacher sent a note home with

Alec, for

> Mike's eyes only. We don't know what the note said. We found out

about the

> note cuz, well, Alec can't stop talking so he announced there was a

note for

> his dad, sealed that had his name on it with instructions from the

teacher to

> Alec that his dad was to get this note.

>

> Right after this, Alec stopped getting popsicle sticks and the

teachers

> paperwork to the doctor stated that Alec does have a small problem

with

> talking but he is just a " normal " kid and she sees no problems at

all.

>

> Alec's grades are fairly good. This year he is exhibiting a

problem. He is

> very inconsistent. He will get a 100 per cent on a test and 2 days

later get

> a 23 on similar material.

> We think, and we are not sure cuz they won't talk that the school

is washing

> their hands of the situation.

>

> Here's the deal. Alec tests well. Alec presents well. If a

doctor or

> anyone sees Alec for, say a 1-2 hour visit, even a 3-4 hour period,

Alec can

> control himself. His dad is the same way. This is normal in

behavioral

> people. (I know this cuz I worked on a psych ward in a hospital.

It was not

> uncommon to get a patient and we'd look at each other wondering why

they were

> there. It would take a day or two and we would find out why they

were there.

> People can hide their behaviors for a time but not for the long

term. Mike

> is the same way. He can talk with you for a time and hide his

condition.

> Soon though, he starts pacing, his eyes start darting and he's

literally

> yanking on his tesitcles repeatedly...odd behavior indeed). What

needs to be

> done, and what was done for the first eval and subsequent visits is

to talk

> to Alec and get him talking in a situation where he will let his

guard down.

> Then, you can't get Alec to relax. For instance, it wasn't until

the 3rd

> visit with the original counselor, that Alec started lying to the

gal. She

> caught him lying and got in his face. Then she witnessed

Alec's " shut down "

> . She mentioned that she thought he was a " cronic lyer " . It

wasn't too long

> after that, the clinic shrink asked us about trying him on the long

lasting

> Ritalin. (I forget the name of it.) He stated that if Alec was

truly in

> need of this drug, we would see a instant reaction. What we

witnessed was a

> totaly different Alec. He came home smiling from school,

announcing he had a

> " great day. " He did his homework in about 45 mininutes that

night.

> (Homework for Alec is usually a 1.5-2.0 hour ordeal. The teachers

say he

> shouldn't have to work more than 30-45 minutes per night. That

same night,

> we had conversation with Alec. There was no frustration with Alec

that

> night. Alec sat in a chair and told us about his day. He did not

hang

> upside down in a chair or flail his arms. He SAT and talked with

us for

> about 30 minutes.

> Shortly afterward, bio-dad , visited the clinic, announced himself

as Dr.

> Harrel, produced a card that said he was a PHD, (not in

what field,

> he bought an on line PHD) told the doctor that he was a doctor in

the field

> and there was nothing wrong with Alec. He told them he doesn't

have any

> problems with them. He wrote the people that finance the clinic,

threatening

> to sue. The clinic lawyers told the shrink that if Alec was not

immediately

> suicidal to get out of the situation. So they did.

>

> And here we are.

> What we need is some big time funds, get a PI involved and get to

the bottom

> of a lot of this stuff. Then lets go to court. What we need is

ny

> freakin' Cochrane.

>

>

> Ron

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Terry,

Mike could go ahead and try to convince them, but they will be looking out

for and also will have heard your side first. They could maybe do

surprise visits on days that Mike has Alec and maybe catch a time where he's

not the perfect child that Mike claims he is when he's there!

Don't give up!

Sue

Re: No help for Alec/long...again (sorry)

> In a message dated 10/28/2001 12:28:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> smgaska@... writes:

>

>

> > Don't you get a chance to tell your side? To be able to tell about Ex

> > calling for help and bringing Alec home? Can't your refute his lies?

> > My last thought is, why not keep a video camera handy and try recording

some

> > of the problem areas with Alec. Then you could have proof, or call in

> > social services to assist you or legal aide?

> > Sue

> >

> >

>

> You know, that's not a bad idea, Sue! Maybe I should have done that in

the

> beginning...trouble is that Mike is able to convince people that if Alec

does

> indeed have problems that they are only present in our house and therefore

> have to be being caused by his living with handicapped children. Oh, it

just

> sucks...

>

> ******Terry******

> Wife to: Ron

> Mom to: Alec 10, NVLD - Sam 4, Autism - Abbie 3, PDD-NOS

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Lori...that made cry, you offering what was left of your strength. I

don't know what I did before I found this list, I've never known such

supportive people in my life and I think I have some good friends in the

" real world. "

Terry,

You hit the nail right on the head, I think I would be in an institution for

good instead of " my little trips " . This is the greatest thing.

I also wanted to cry at Lori's post. It was truly touching. Lori, you are a

gem!

, 40, Columbus, OH

Bipolar, Borderline Personality Disorder, and????

Mom to:

, 15, probably Bipolar

Annie, 12, so far so good!

JD, 8, Autism, severe ADHD, maybe bipolar, AND

my reason for getting out of bed each day!!!

[Guest guest]

> This sound a lot like is now actually.

> He still doesn't understand money, toys, gifts, etc. He expects

>them every day and gets mad when we can't or won't buy them.

>

> I'm thinking it's all a part of autism. I don't know.

>

> kandie

Not always.

My son always thought we never had anything that was good enough.

His " friends " always had more,and he didn't understand why. He never

asked for things, but was always resentful and jealous.

It sucked, but that's life.

Alec actually sounds a lot like my son. He needs help....

Penny

[Guest guest]

Chronic Liar?

100 on a test, then 23 on the same material?

the more you guys describe Alec, the more you describe my son (and

HIS bio-dad btw, HE's the kind of liar that totally believes what he

says is the truth).

My son is 19 years old now. and we went thru HELL with him,

literally. I finally took him to counseling when he was 17. Not sure

if it helped much. I should have done it much, much sooner.

I wish I could do more for you...but Alec needs professional help,

NOW.

I know you know that. I wish I could help you convince Mike of that.

This is so sad.

Penny....

[Guest guest]

I guess what you need to do is prove Mike is a habitual, chronic,

compulsive, whatever-you-wanna-call it liar.

ugh.

Penny - who really, really hates it when people LIE.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/29/2001 7:16:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,

nospam@... writes:

> My son always thought we never had anything that was good enough.

> His " friends " always had more,and he didn't understand why. He never

> asked for things, but was always resentful and jealous.

>

> It sucked, but that's life.

>

> Alec actually sounds a lot like my son. He needs help....

>

> Penny

>

>

>

Well, I agree Penny...unfortunately bio-dad seems to want to go to any

length, even lying to a judge, psychologists etc. to prevent Alec from

getting any kind of dx. He says he doesn't see any problems with Alec. This

could actually make sense since he has never adressed his own problems.

This could be compared to an alcoholic who just doesn't see the problem with

another alcoholic who drinks too much....How can one see a problem when one's

problem hasn't been adressed?

Ron....

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/29/2001 10:57:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,

nospam@... writes:

> My son is 19 years old now. and we went thru HELL with him,

> literally. I finally took him to counseling when he was 17. Not sure

> if it helped much. I should have done it much, much sooner.

>

> I wish I could do more for you...but Alec needs professional help,

> NOW.

>

> I know you know that. I wish I could help you convince Mike of that.

>

> This is so sad.

>

>

I know...I have a very good friend in PDX, who's son needed help. Of course,

like the majority of people, she didn't recognize early signs and finally

tried to get him some help when he was 16 and showing big, big signs. He was

board in school, skipped school, a recluse...lied a lot and was depressed.

When he was 17, he went to a summer of counseling and announce he was feeling

much better. Even the counselor was impressed with his attitude change. She

offered him a job doing computer work....he was a self taught genius at

writing programs....he was a hack also.

On his 18th, birthday, mom came home from work with birthday presents ready

for a party. She walked into his room. Danny had shot himself in the head

that morning when everyone was gone. He had scammed everyone...even the

counselor...into thinking everything was okay. His note read, " Mom, I'm

sorry, this isn't your fault...I just can't stand it anymore. "

My heart aches for Alec. Terry and I truly believe that the first signs of

ANYTHING are warning signs. We believe in early intervention. We believe in

counseling. We don't necessarily believe in drugs, though we go that route

for Sam and were willing to go that way for Alec if need be. Terry called

autism with Sam when he was 13 months old and Sam had a dx by 19 months. All

because of early intervention. Abbie was even younger.

We can head off major problems by detecting early warning signs.

Unfortunately, these signs are usually very subtle and it is hard to convince

some people that there may be problems down the road. All we want for Alec

is the best we can give him and the best chance for him to make it in the

world.

He does have problems and we are aware of this. We would love for Alec, his

bio-dad and us to go to counseling and teach Alec, and learn to teach Alec

coping mechanisms to deal with his problems so bigger problems don't develop

later. Unfortunately, bio-dad will not go to counseling...I believe he has

something to hide.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Thanks , I really was put on this earth to help people far and close to me.

I enjoy helping I sure get the best out of things when I know I have helped

someone do something.

You are all welcome. I also know that this group is here for me if I really need

someone to help me.

Lori Re: No help for Alec/long...again (sorry)

Thanks, Lori...that made cry, you offering what was left of your strength. I

don't know what I did before I found this list, I've never known such

supportive people in my life and I think I have some good friends in the

" real world. "

Terry,

You hit the nail right on the head, I think I would be in an institution for

good instead of " my little trips " . This is the greatest thing.

I also wanted to cry at Lori's post. It was truly touching. Lori, you are a

gem!

, 40, Columbus, OH

Bipolar, Borderline Personality Disorder, and????

Mom to:

, 15, probably Bipolar

Annie, 12, so far so good!

JD, 8, Autism, severe ADHD, maybe bipolar, AND

my reason for getting out of bed each day!!!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/29/2001 2:02:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jacquie_harris@... writes:

> Ron & Terry,

> I have been reading your posts about Alec. I feel for your

> family. I can tell just by your posts that there is something wrong

> with Alec. Poor guy can't get the help he needs because of his Bio

> dad. Ron, you are a good man to love Alec the way you do and fight

> for him the best you can. My stepdad is the same way. I never

> consider him anything but just dad. I do remeber having alot of the

> same problems that Alec has and I am sure he feels a terrible ammount

> of pain when it comes to his dad. Alec seems to handle things more

> like my little sister though. Always moving and agitated. Sweet thing

> but very troubled. She is also very smart. She was dx'd BP this year.

> She lies constantly and always has. You wouldnt guess anything was

> wrong with her until you really spent some time around her. What

> about requesting a surprise home study for both households. That way

> maybe the court could see what is going on. I mean if Alec always

> gets his way at his dad's house so thats why there isnt a problem

> then the social worker should see it and if Alec's dad tries to look

> like a " good dad " by setting limits then Alec will most diffenately

> have some behaviours right? They would also be able to see how you

> guys handle things and what your home is like. Just a thought. You

> guys are in my prayers.

>

Thanks, Jacquie...I appreciate the suggestions, the thoughts and the

prayers...

******Terry******

Wife to: Ron

Mom to: Alec 10, NVLD - Sam 4, Autism - Abbie 3, PDD-NOS