Re: Why difficult for diab. I to loose weight?

February 5, 1999

>

> I have a questions. For a while ago a member mentioned that after

> having first become a diab. I (after having been a diab. II) it would be

> nearly impossible to loose weight.

For a Type 1 diabetic who is taking insulin, if they are taking

so much insulin that they have a strong appetite at all times,

then it becomes impossible for them to curb the calorie intake

without going into hypoglycemia.

This is one of the most noticeable problems of those who

are on " intensive " therapy.

On the other hand, Type 1 diabetics on " conventional " therapy

using non-peaky insulins can adjust their insulin activity

(dosages) so that their appetite can be either excessive,

just right, or even lower than needed (with the same effect

as diet pills that curb appetite). When the latter is done,

loss of weight becomes quite possible. As an example,

during my adult life, my weight increased about 15 pounds

above my weight at 20 years of age. However, by decreasing my

insulin dosage somewhat, I was able to curb my appetite enough

so that I ate less, and yet maintained good control over

my blood sugar. In several months, the 15 pounds disappeared,

so now I'm back to wearing 31 " slacks instead of 34 " .

The doctor who lives across the street from me for the past

35 years was once a very slim person, until he became a Type 1

diabetic at age 65. With intensive therapy, he now looks

like he has been inflated like a baloon. He isn't even

recognizable. You will gradually gain weight on

intensive therapy, and there is little if any chance of

losing it so long as you remain on intensive therapy.

>

> Can anyone explain why it is so? - I have read that 40% of all people

> in the US with diab. II at some time becomes diab. I. - Is the

> probability for becoming diab.I and having to take insulin, really so

> high?

When a Type 2 diabetic goes onto insulin therapy, they do NOT

become Type 1. That is a gross misunderstanding that arises

from the *conjecture* that their sulfonylureas stop working

because their pancratic islet cells have been worn out.

No one has demonstrated that as fact. If such were true,

then the diabetic would have as *critical* a need for insulin

as a genuine Type 1, in that they would enter ketoacidosis

within hours of not having any insulin. However, this never

happens to insulin-using Type 2 diabetics at any time.

When they stop taking insulin, their blood sugar goes up

but no significant if any amount of ketones ever appears in their

urine. Therefore, they are still Type 2.

Michel

>

> Norgaard

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

February 5, 1999

In a message dated 99-02-05 16:56:06 EST, you write:

<< When a Type 2 diabetic goes onto insulin therapy, they do NOT

become Type 1. That is a gross misunderstanding that arises

from the *conjecture* that their sulfonylureas stop working

because their pancratic islet cells have been worn out.

No one has demonstrated that as fact. If such were true,

then the diabetic would have as *critical* a need for insulin

as a genuine Type 1, in that they would enter ketoacidosis

within hours of not having any insulin. However, this never

happens to insulin-using Type 2 diabetics at any time.

When they stop taking insulin, their blood sugar goes up

but no significant if any amount of ketones ever appears in their

urine. Therefore, they are still Type 2.

>>

QUESTION:

A Type 2 for many years using large amounts of insulin stops taking his

insulin and goes into ketoacidosis within hours. He has a C-peptide test done

and the result is that the pancreas is not producing Beta Cells which come

from the Islets of Langferharis (in the pancreas which produce Beat Cells).

Question: What Type of diabetic is this person? Type 2 becoming a Type 1?

Or now a Type 1 diabetic? Or still a Type 2?

February 5, 1999

In message ,

Michel writes

>

>>

>> I have a questions. For a while ago a member mentioned that after

>> having first become a diab. I (after having been a diab. II) it would be

>> nearly impossible to loose weight.

>

>For a Type 1 diabetic who is taking insulin, if they are taking

>so much insulin that they have a strong appetite at all times,

>then it becomes impossible for them to curb the calorie intake

>without going into hypoglycemia.

This is true of some non intensive therapy's as well, I'm thinking of

the pre-mixed insulin that I started. You had to eat to feed the

insulin, this may have been as a result of poor hospital care, but it

did not work for me.

>

>This is one of the most noticeable problems of those who

>are on " intensive " therapy.

It is a problem for those who do not manage their " intensive " therapy

carefully.

>

>On the other hand, Type 1 diabetics on " conventional " therapy

>using non-peaky insulins can adjust their insulin activity

>(dosages) so that their appetite can be either excessive,

>just right, or even lower than needed (with the same effect

>as diet pills that curb appetite). When the latter is done,

>loss of weight becomes quite possible. As an example,

>during my adult life, my weight increased about 15 pounds

>above my weight at 20 years of age. However, by decreasing my

>insulin dosage somewhat, I was able to curb my appetite enough

>so that I ate less, and yet maintained good control over

>my blood sugar. In several months, the 15 pounds disappeared,

>so now I'm back to wearing 31 " slacks instead of 34 " .

The same is true with intensive therapy, you adjust your insulin so that

your appetite is normal for yourself. Gaining wait means you got it

wrong, weight loss usually involves eating less.

>

>The doctor who lives across the street from me for the past

>35 years was once a very slim person, until he became a Type 1

>diabetic at age 65. With intensive therapy, he now looks

>like he has been inflated like a baloon. He isn't even

>recognizable. You will gradually gain weight on

>intensive therapy, and there is little if any chance of

>losing it so long as you remain on intensive therapy.

I would have thought that it would be fair to say that there would be

little chance of weight loss until the intensive therapy is better

managed. The same result can occur with a number of poorly managed

regimes and diets, though the risk of gaining weight would certainly

seem higher in the short term with MDI (intensive therapy).

Regards

Pete

MDI Humalog/Isophane

--

February 5, 1999

> From: RSMYTH1000@...

>

> In a message dated 99-02-05 16:56:06 EST, you write:

>

> << When a Type 2 diabetic goes onto insulin therapy, they do NOT

> become Type 1. That is a gross misunderstanding that arises

> from the *conjecture* that their sulfonylureas stop working

> because their pancratic islet cells have been worn out.

>

> No one has demonstrated that as fact. If such were true,

> then the diabetic would have as *critical* a need for insulin

> as a genuine Type 1, in that they would enter ketoacidosis

> within hours of not having any insulin. However, this never

> happens to insulin-using Type 2 diabetics at any time.

> When they stop taking insulin, their blood sugar goes up

> but no significant if any amount of ketones ever appears in their

> urine. Therefore, they are still Type 2.

> >>

> QUESTION:

>

> A Type 2 for many years using large amounts of insulin stops taking his

> insulin and goes into ketoacidosis within hours. He has a C-peptide test done

> and the result is that the pancreas is not producing Beta Cells which come

> from the Islets of Langferharis (in the pancreas which produce Beat Cells).

Langerhans

A *negative* result for a C-peptide test proves nothing. All it shows

is that the pancreas has not been producing insulin within the past

two hours. This can be caused both by non-functioning beta cells

AS WELL AS a lack of need for native insulin due to an ample supply

of already injected insulin.

>

> Question: What Type of diabetic is this person? Type 2 becoming a Type 1?

> Or now a Type 1 diabetic? Or still a Type 2?

Since real Type 2's are noted for their freedom from ketoacidosis,

I would say that such a person is and always was a Type 1.

The negative C-peptide test result is totally in line with this,

in the sense that it does not contradict it. Not that it proves

anything.

Type 2's never become Type 1's-- the respective causes for their

diabetes are entirely different. Furthermore, genuine Type 2 diabetics

who become totally dependent on injected insulin to control their blood

sugars never show a *critical* need for injected insulin, in the sense

that they will never develop ketoacidosis when deprived of it.

It must be remembered that typing diabetics is not the easiest

thing in the world to do, and this includes the medical profession.

It takes LOGIC and scientific method to do this, not to mention

*observation* at a critical moment. Not to say that doctors CAN'T do

this-- many can, yet others can't.

Just because someone tells a diabetic that they are Type 1 or Type 2

doesn't necessarily mean they're right.

Michel

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

February 6, 1999

In a message dated 2/6/99 2:35:13 PM !!!First Boot!!!, norgaard@...

writes:

> >Can anyone explain why it is so? - I have read that 40% of all people in

> >the US with diab. II at some time becomes diab. I. - Is the probability

for

> >becoming diab.I and having to take insulin, really so high?

> >>

> >> Norgaard

Hi ! my name is and i am new to the list. I was told when i was

diagnosed at age 27 that by the time i was thirty five i would be on insulin.

When I am thirty now and I don't use meds at all. I don't know if i ever will

or not but right now I am not using anything I can control it with diet.

Don't need to take any foreign matter in my body for it. No i will not say i

have perfect control because i do not but most of the time it is within normal

limits. Two days ago it was 349 but it is below 180 now. and I imagine it

will be normal by tomorrow. Maybe i should be on meds but i am not and the

doctor doesn't give me meds to be on. We are military and they really don't

seem to care if you need something or not. Any way just thought i would

share. You all be blessed

God Bless

February 6, 1999

Thank you very much for all the answers.

Best regards

February 6, 1999

I was originally diagnosed as type 2. When originally diagnosed i weighed

255lbs on a 6'5 " frame. At first my Dr had me controlling with diet and

exercise and I lost 25lbs. At that time my BGS started to climb back up so i

went onto oral meds, I continued to watch what i ate and exercised and

dropped to 200lbs where i was stabilized for about a year. Then over a very

short time frame I dropped to 175lbs no matter what I ate during the day it

was nothing to lose 5lbs a day. At this time my Dr put me into the hospital

and started me on insulin. I should add that the lower my weight went the

higher my BGS went. During the 4 days I was in the hospital I gained 10 lbs.

That was 5 years ago. Today I am 200lbs can vary up to 5 lbs in a day and am

stable(?) with my Bgs.

It is not impossible to lose weight when type 1 but it requires a lot of

discipline and monitoring of your levels.

Why difficult for diab. I to loose weight?

>

>I have a questions. For a while ago a member mentioned that after having

first become a diab. I (after having been a diab. II) it would be nearly

impossible to loose weight.

>

>Can anyone explain why it is so? - I have read that 40% of all people in

the US with diab. II at some time becomes diab. I. - Is the probability for

becoming diab.I and having to take insulin, really so high?

>

> Norgaard

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

February 6, 1999

Thank you very much for sharing your experience. I understand that after a while

it may be more difficult to control the bg and insuline may be necessary.