Re: Boundary Ambivalence

[Guest guest]

((((((((((((Holly))))))))))) Here is a big hug for you. I am so

sorry about your dog to start it seems like when one thing happens

another always follows but then the good times are really good. I

will say a prayer for you and your dog. I feel the same way I want

my mommy to but I have never had her either. I find myself crying as

read your letter and type this one. You know the thing that keeps me

coming back to this place is that this is the only place I have ever

found that I truly feel validated and understood. You can say

something like that to me and I to you and we understand. But no

matter how much my husband will love me he can never understand. He

expects me to pull up my boot straps and move along like nothing

happened, I can't I am strong but not that strong the past did

happen and things still happen to this day to me. Sometimes I don't

want to get out of bed sometimes I don't want to eat sometimes I

drink 7 cups of coffee. But I do whatever to get along. It is hard

for me sometimes because my husband does not really believe in

depression (or maybe that his wife could be) so even when I feel

like I need help sometimes I feel like it is just for the best to

put on my rock face and my rock heart and play pretend. But this

is when I know I just have to take it a day or even a moment at a

time. If you can hold out with your nada and ease into this that is

good for you at least you will be able to speak your peace and you

won't be living with that. You are just feeling the natural things

at the moment of wanting her but knowing you can't have her. I

wonder if it ever goes away. In the mean time we can all talk to

each other for the validation we need. Others in my life have been

great and loving but nobody can understand a k/o like a k/o. Love

Lizzy

>

> Hi all,

>

> As many of you know I'm a real newbie, and just figured out a

couple

> weeks ago (seems like a couple years in some ways) that I have a

> borderline parent. I read SWOE and UBM, joined this group, and

told my

> best friends of my discovery and what it meant to me (one dear

friend

> actually started crying because she was so happy I finally found

> answers). So, it has been a turbulent time marked by surprise,

shock,

> exhuberance, grief, fear, relief, the works. (Add the fact that I'm

> about to go on a 2-week vacation with entire family & nada, it's

been

> a really weird time for me.)

>

> So my nada has called a few times since I started my research. At

> first I felt guilty, like I was harboring a secret behind her back

> (the time she called while I was in the middle of typing on this

board

> was nothing short of creepy). Some of these conversations have been

> innocuous. Others have been her throwing mini-fits, but thankfully

not

> about me - just venting to me. And I totally used the strategies I

> learned from the books - listening to her and acknowledging her

> feelings, without saying anything that might egg her on (eg, " Yes,

the

> cable people are notorious for never being on time; I'm sorry you

had

> a crappy day. " or, in answer to her negativity about the upcoming

> trip: " Hmmmm. I didn't realize Royal Caribbean was a 'budget'

cruise

> line. Never heard that before. I do hear the food is delicious

> though. " ) You get the idea.

>

> So last night, while out walking my dog, I get a message from her

> saying, " Guess what, the cable people finally showed up. Just

wanted

> to let you know. Anyway, I'll be in all night if you feel like

> talking. Actually, I'll be in all night even if you don't feel like

> talking! So, hope you're out having fun. "

>

> I know my mother. She knows something is up. She can't put her

finger

> on it but she has noticed a subtle difference in the way I'm

> communicating. And here's the thing. Before two weeks ago, I

> absolutely would have called her back. I kind of did want to talk.

I'm

> having an issue I *know* she would be empathetic about - my vet

just

> found a growth on my dog, and I'm getting the results of the biopsy

> the day before we leave. Even if this hadn't happened, I'd be

having

> tremendous separation anxiety - but now I'm kind of freaking

out... my

> dog is the absolute love of my life. And being an animal lover

> herself, my nada would completely understand this and be totally

> loving and supportive to me in this instance. I'm quite sure of it.

>

> But I didn't call her. I felt I couldn't. All these years I've been

> enmeshed so intensely with her, believe it or not, there have been

> times when she has been *wonderful* to me. But, there have also

been

> times when she has absolutely decimated me. And I know I have to

break

> the pattern. I know that in order to protect myself from future

> decimation, I have to get " unenmeshed. " I cannot continue to go to

her

> for love, because the closer I feel to her, the more it absolutely

> kills me when she turns around and chops my head off. I know this

from

> past experiences of closeness with her...the roller coaster ride is

> too much... I have to take the steps required to protect myself,

and

> that means not sharing my thoughts, feelings, fears, joys,

> heartbreaks... much as I may want to.

>

> Oh god. I am crying as I type this. Why? Because although I will

gain

> something important - and necessary - from my change in behavior, I

> cannot help but feel that I am also losing something very dear to

me.

> I miss my mom already. And I know she will miss me, in her own way,

> when she sees the change. Actually, I must revise that - what I'll

> miss is the " good mom. " But in order to keep her, I have to remain

> vulnerable to the " nada, " and I know I can't do it anymore.

>

> Has anyone else gone through feelings like this? Was it just that

> phone message that triggered these feelings of sadness and loss?

Am I

> freaking about this trip, and being apart from my dog - the real

> source of mutual, unconditional love in my life? I feel so lonely

> already. I can't help it... even though I know the change is

> necessary... just now it's making me terribly, terribly sad. I feel

> like a little girl crying the typical, " I want my mommy! " Except I

> guess I never, in the true sense, really had her.

>

> Holly

>

[Guest guest]

>Well she was really good last week. She didn't mean to call me

>selfish, accuse me of intentionally hurting her and hang up on me.

She >was just having a bad day. "

I know what you say here. The part about accusing you of

intentionally hurting her has happened to me so many times. I just

wish she had then hung up on me. My mom just keeps repeating and

repeating how I have hurt her sooooooooooo deeply. And I beleive her,

she is hurt deeply, but it really has nothing to do with me. I

haven't done anything intentional or unintentional that would hurt a

normal person. Never mind that I came to visit and cut her hair, took

care of her meds, checked up on her yard and pulled a few weeds. All

she can remember is her imagined hurts. I am just so sick of it.

We have come to a new era for her. We have had a wonderful caregiver

with her for three years. She called me Saturday to tell me she is

leaving. Mother had accused her for the umpteenth time of stealing

from her. She said Judy (I'll call her Judy) had taken some shirts.

Judy went to her closet and found the named shirts for her. I don't

know what all happened then, but Judy FINALLY lost it. She called mom

a bitch. She has been so patient and understanding and has been hurt

so many times by mom that I can't believe she has made it so long with

her.

I reassured her that I understand and have no ill feelings about her

leaving. Of course nada was begging her to stay within the hour. This

has worked in the past and I can't count how many times it has

happened. This time it won't work. Judy is leaving. She deserves to

take care of someone who appreciates the fine person she is. The

onlyl reason she has stayed so long is because of her relationship

with me and my reassurance all along that we knew she was not stealing

things. We have become good friends. When nada finally figures out

that her manipulations won't work this time and that Judy is really

going she will be distraught as Judy is the best caregiver we have

ever had.

I am dreading having to hear nada repeat over and over how terrible

Judy has always been and how her leaving has nothing to do with my

nada. She has already told me that all of this story is a lie on

Judy's part and that she can't remember anything about shirts being

stolen, but Judy has stolen plenty of other things. She said I always

take Judy's side. Well, Duh!!!!!!! I am sick of playing like I

believe nadas lies. Judy has just been there long enough to achieve

almost-daughter status and has been split black. No one else who

meets my mother would know anything about this side of her. She is

very high functioning and knows how to be socially correct.

I don't know who nada will get from the agency now. Of course, there

will be something wrong with the next one too. I don't even care

anymore. It really doesn't matter as she is never happy with anyting.

A year or two ago this kind of a situation would have me losing sleep.

I am proud of the progress I have made in disconnecting emotionally.

I just can't care anymore. Dee

[Guest guest]

Awwww... you guys. God, but you all always hit the nail right on the

head. I can't believe my luck in finding this place... it's such a

blessing, thank you!

KW, your words were beautiful and inspiring to me. Dee, I am so sorry

about the latest drama with your nada... good luck, stay strong. And

Lizzy, I'm sorry I made you cry but I know the feeling, I have found

myself crying with recognition at messages here, and also feel it's

the one place where people really " get it. " Is there any way you could

ask your husband to join you in counseling? It makes me so sad to

think of you having to support yourself alone and " fake it " when you

are depressed. Be careful!

Love and hugs to everybody,

Holly

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > As many of you know I'm a real newbie, and just figured out a

> couple

> > weeks ago (seems like a couple years in some ways) that I have a

> > borderline parent. I read SWOE and UBM, joined this group, and

> told my

> > best friends of my discovery and what it meant to me (one dear

> friend

> > actually started crying because she was so happy I finally found

> > answers). So, it has been a turbulent time marked by surprise,

> shock,

> > exhuberance, grief, fear, relief, the works. (Add the fact that I'm

> > about to go on a 2-week vacation with entire family & nada, it's

> been

> > a really weird time for me.)

> >

> > So my nada has called a few times since I started my research. At

> > first I felt guilty, like I was harboring a secret behind her back

> > (the time she called while I was in the middle of typing on this

> board

> > was nothing short of creepy). Some of these conversations have been

> > innocuous. Others have been her throwing mini-fits, but thankfully

> not

> > about me - just venting to me. And I totally used the strategies I

> > learned from the books - listening to her and acknowledging her

> > feelings, without saying anything that might egg her on (eg, " Yes,

> the

> > cable people are notorious for never being on time; I'm sorry you

> had

> > a crappy day. " or, in answer to her negativity about the upcoming

> > trip: " Hmmmm. I didn't realize Royal Caribbean was a 'budget'

> cruise

> > line. Never heard that before. I do hear the food is delicious

> > though. " ) You get the idea.

> >

> > So last night, while out walking my dog, I get a message from her

> > saying, " Guess what, the cable people finally showed up. Just

> wanted

> > to let you know. Anyway, I'll be in all night if you feel like

> > talking. Actually, I'll be in all night even if you don't feel like

> > talking! So, hope you're out having fun. "

> >

> > I know my mother. She knows something is up. She can't put her

> finger

> > on it but she has noticed a subtle difference in the way I'm

> > communicating. And here's the thing. Before two weeks ago, I

> > absolutely would have called her back. I kind of did want to talk.

> I'm

> > having an issue I *know* she would be empathetic about - my vet

> just

> > found a growth on my dog, and I'm getting the results of the biopsy

> > the day before we leave. Even if this hadn't happened, I'd be

> having

> > tremendous separation anxiety - but now I'm kind of freaking

> out... my

> > dog is the absolute love of my life. And being an animal lover

> > herself, my nada would completely understand this and be totally

> > loving and supportive to me in this instance. I'm quite sure of it.

> >

> > But I didn't call her. I felt I couldn't. All these years I've been

> > enmeshed so intensely with her, believe it or not, there have been

> > times when she has been *wonderful* to me. But, there have also

> been

> > times when she has absolutely decimated me. And I know I have to

> break

> > the pattern. I know that in order to protect myself from future

> > decimation, I have to get " unenmeshed. " I cannot continue to go to

> her

> > for love, because the closer I feel to her, the more it absolutely

> > kills me when she turns around and chops my head off. I know this

> from

> > past experiences of closeness with her...the roller coaster ride is

> > too much... I have to take the steps required to protect myself,

> and

> > that means not sharing my thoughts, feelings, fears, joys,

> > heartbreaks... much as I may want to.

> >

> > Oh god. I am crying as I type this. Why? Because although I will

> gain

> > something important - and necessary - from my change in behavior, I

> > cannot help but feel that I am also losing something very dear to

> me.

> > I miss my mom already. And I know she will miss me, in her own way,

> > when she sees the change. Actually, I must revise that - what I'll

> > miss is the " good mom. " But in order to keep her, I have to remain

> > vulnerable to the " nada, " and I know I can't do it anymore.

> >

> > Has anyone else gone through feelings like this? Was it just that

> > phone message that triggered these feelings of sadness and loss?

> Am I

> > freaking about this trip, and being apart from my dog - the real

> > source of mutual, unconditional love in my life? I feel so lonely

> > already. I can't help it... even though I know the change is

> > necessary... just now it's making me terribly, terribly sad. I feel

> > like a little girl crying the typical, " I want my mommy! " Except I

> > guess I never, in the true sense, really had her.

> >

> > Holly

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I read once, " Trying to fill the borderlines needs is like trying to fill

the Grand Canyon with a water pistol. " Great analogy I think. No one will

be the " right " caregiver. Take the responsibility off yourself and let the

agency handle it. Sister hugs to you !!

KW

>

>Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

>To: WTOAdultChildren1

>Subject: Re: Boundary Ambivalence

>Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:35:40 -0000

>

>

> >Well she was really good last week. She didn't mean to call me

> >selfish, accuse me of intentionally hurting her and hang up on me.

>She >was just having a bad day. "

>

>I know what you say here. The part about accusing you of

>intentionally hurting her has happened to me so many times. I just

>wish she had then hung up on me. My mom just keeps repeating and

>repeating how I have hurt her sooooooooooo deeply. And I beleive her,

>she is hurt deeply, but it really has nothing to do with me. I

>haven't done anything intentional or unintentional that would hurt a

>normal person. Never mind that I came to visit and cut her hair, took

>care of her meds, checked up on her yard and pulled a few weeds. All

>she can remember is her imagined hurts. I am just so sick of it.

>

>We have come to a new era for her. We have had a wonderful caregiver

>with her for three years. She called me Saturday to tell me she is

>leaving. Mother had accused her for the umpteenth time of stealing

>from her. She said Judy (I'll call her Judy) had taken some shirts.

>Judy went to her closet and found the named shirts for her. I don't

>know what all happened then, but Judy FINALLY lost it. She called mom

>a bitch. She has been so patient and understanding and has been hurt

>so many times by mom that I can't believe she has made it so long with

>her.

>

>I reassured her that I understand and have no ill feelings about her

>leaving. Of course nada was begging her to stay within the hour. This

>has worked in the past and I can't count how many times it has

>happened. This time it won't work. Judy is leaving. She deserves to

>take care of someone who appreciates the fine person she is. The

>onlyl reason she has stayed so long is because of her relationship

>with me and my reassurance all along that we knew she was not stealing

>things. We have become good friends. When nada finally figures out

>that her manipulations won't work this time and that Judy is really

>going she will be distraught as Judy is the best caregiver we have

>ever had.

>

>I am dreading having to hear nada repeat over and over how terrible

>Judy has always been and how her leaving has nothing to do with my

>nada. She has already told me that all of this story is a lie on

>Judy's part and that she can't remember anything about shirts being

>stolen, but Judy has stolen plenty of other things. She said I always

>take Judy's side. Well, Duh!!!!!!! I am sick of playing like I

>believe nadas lies. Judy has just been there long enough to achieve

>almost-daughter status and has been split black. No one else who

>meets my mother would know anything about this side of her. She is

>very high functioning and knows how to be socially correct.

>

>I don't know who nada will get from the agency now. Of course, there

>will be something wrong with the next one too. I don't even care

>anymore. It really doesn't matter as she is never happy with anyting.

>A year or two ago this kind of a situation would have me losing sleep.

> I am proud of the progress I have made in disconnecting emotionally.

> I just can't care anymore. Dee

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

>@.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON

>THE GROUP.

>

>To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

>() for your copy. We also refer to “Understanding the

>Borderline Mother” (Lawson) and “Surviving the Borderline Parent,” (Roth)

>which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

>From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

>and the SWOE Workbook.

>

[Guest guest]

Dee,

Can't tell you how many times that analogy has helped through the difficult

times. Keep them coming !!

KW

>

>Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

>To: WTOAdultChildren1

>Subject: Re: Boundary Ambivalence

>Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:26:28 -0000

>

>I read once,

>

> " Trying to fill the borderlines needs is like trying to fill

>the Grand Canyon with a water pistol. " Great analogy I think. No one

>will be the " right " caregiver. Take the responsibility off yourself

>and let the agency handle it. Sister hugs to you !!

>

>Thanks for the hugs. I need them. If you read the above quote here,

>just thought I'd let you know it was me who posted it. It is a great

>analogy and I use it all the time to remember that no matter what I

>do, she will be unhappy. And always remember that the difference

>between the Grand Canyon and nada is that the Grand Canyon has a

>bottom!!! LOL Dee

>

>

>

>

>

>

>Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

>@.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON

>THE GROUP.

>

>To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

>() for your copy. We also refer to “Understanding the

>Borderline Mother” (Lawson) and “Surviving the Borderline Parent,” (Roth)

>which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

>From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

>and the SWOE Workbook.

>

[Guest guest]

At 19:08 8/13/2006, " holligolightly68 " holligolightly68@... wrote:

I know my mother. She knows something is up. She can't put her finger

on it but she has noticed a subtle difference in the way I'm

communicating.<snip>

And being an animal lover

herself, my nada would completely understand this and be totally

loving and supportive to me in this instance. I'm quite sure of it.

listening to her and acknowledging her

feelings, without saying anything that might egg her on

All these years I've been

enmeshed so intensely with her, believe it or not, there have been

times when she has been *wonderful* to me. But, there have also been

times when she has absolutely decimated me. And I know I have to break

the pattern.

the roller coaster ride is

too much... I have to take the steps required to protect myself, and

that means not sharing my thoughts, feelings, fears, joys,

heartbreaks... much as I may want to.

even though I know the change is

necessary... just now it's making me terribly, terribly sad.

Has anyone else gone through feelings like this? Was it just that

phone message that triggered these feelings of sadness and loss?

Holly, these are the aspects of these women we call mom that prove how awfully

difficult this realization is; that we must separate from the woman who gave us

life so that we may survive.

All of your thoughts ring true for me and, while I understand the need for many

to vent about their family members, it's good to read something compassionate.

What triggered these feelings for you? Hard to say, but I'm sure your worry

regarding your beloved dog is opening your heart to some deep stuff. Stuff

that's been...well, stuffed...for a very long time.

For me, I'm truly saddened by my mom's state because I know this thing is

fixable, but she will never be fixed because, I guess, she's just too

comfortable in her chaos. So I have to be selfish and think of me. Something

I've never been able to do without some agenda lurking there in the shadows.

D

...a fellow animal lover

[Guest guest]

Holly -

I am new to this site but not new to the phenomenon you described of

feeling severely undermined by one's parent. I also tried recently to

set up a really clear boundary by sending my mother an email

indicating that she should not pick up the phone unless she has

consciously prepared herself to treat me with civility and

consideration and that I would not take her calls for as long as

necessary until she could train herself to do so. The email also

reinforced the fact that she has absolutely no right to manipulate,

criticize, control, or judge me...So, I sent it off expecting the

usual response, which is repeated calls, yelling, recriminating,

swearing, etc. Except that she didn't call. For ten days (though she

usually does several times a day!). I was beside myself. I really

thought I would die. I couldn't eat, drink, sleep, rest, relax,

nothing. I thought to myself, my mother is so mad and proud that she

would rather give up her relationship with her only daughter than

admit that she can act in ways that are destructive and damaging. At

the end of the 10 days, she called me and acted like nothing happened.

She said she just called to remind me it was my brother's wedding

anniversary so I might want to call him and wish him a happy

anniversary. It was an awkward conversation. I kept thinking that I

don't even know what a non-abusive, non-dependent relationship with my

mother would even be like, or who I would be within that context.

Although I had expected her to call my brother, cousin, aunt, etc.,

and rage about my letter, she only called then a week into the impasse

to say she was very concerned about me and that the letter was an

indication of how bad I had gotten. She saw it as a distortion, but

they took her " concern " at face value. So, any step towards autonomy

and boundaries is pathologized by her as if I have the problem, am

ungrateful, disrespectful, etc. Well, the end result of all this is

that she actually, by some miracle, agreed to go to therapy with me,

although I'm not sure I will be able to withstand her projections and

bear with the " process, " as bearing with the process is something I'm

not so good at, having grown up with so much inconsistency and

guardedness.

I relate all of this by way of saying that I completely understand the

sheer terror of trying to separate and the fear, sadness and confusion

that separating involves. It is so hard to get over that hump of

believing in one's self and one's ability to function as an autonomous

and capable person. I have struggled with this for years and am still

actively engaged in the fight. So, I wanted to offer you my sincere

support and best wishes that you find a way to identify yourself

separate from the relationship and that you come to terms with the

grief that it entails. Good luck and best wishes.

Elana

I tell you all of this to say that

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > As many of you know I'm a real newbie, and just figured out a

> > couple

> > > weeks ago (seems like a couple years in some ways) that I have a

> > > borderline parent. I read SWOE and UBM, joined this group, and

> > told my

> > > best friends of my discovery and what it meant to me (one dear

> > friend

> > > actually started crying because she was so happy I finally found

> > > answers). So, it has been a turbulent time marked by surprise,

> > shock,

> > > exhuberance, grief, fear, relief, the works. (Add the fact that I'm

> > > about to go on a 2-week vacation with entire family & nada, it's

> > been

> > > a really weird time for me.)

> > >

> > > So my nada has called a few times since I started my research. At

> > > first I felt guilty, like I was harboring a secret behind her back

> > > (the time she called while I was in the middle of typing on this

> > board

> > > was nothing short of creepy). Some of these conversations have been

> > > innocuous. Others have been her throwing mini-fits, but thankfully

> > not

> > > about me - just venting to me. And I totally used the strategies I

> > > learned from the books - listening to her and acknowledging her

> > > feelings, without saying anything that might egg her on (eg, " Yes,

> > the

> > > cable people are notorious for never being on time; I'm sorry you

> > had

> > > a crappy day. " or, in answer to her negativity about the upcoming

> > > trip: " Hmmmm. I didn't realize Royal Caribbean was a 'budget'

> > cruise

> > > line. Never heard that before. I do hear the food is delicious

> > > though. " ) You get the idea.

> > >

> > > So last night, while out walking my dog, I get a message from her

> > > saying, " Guess what, the cable people finally showed up. Just

> > wanted

> > > to let you know. Anyway, I'll be in all night if you feel like

> > > talking. Actually, I'll be in all night even if you don't feel like

> > > talking! So, hope you're out having fun. "

> > >

> > > I know my mother. She knows something is up. She can't put her

> > finger

> > > on it but she has noticed a subtle difference in the way I'm

> > > communicating. And here's the thing. Before two weeks ago, I

> > > absolutely would have called her back. I kind of did want to talk.

> > I'm

> > > having an issue I *know* she would be empathetic about - my vet

> > just

> > > found a growth on my dog, and I'm getting the results of the biopsy

> > > the day before we leave. Even if this hadn't happened, I'd be

> > having

> > > tremendous separation anxiety - but now I'm kind of freaking

> > out... my

> > > dog is the absolute love of my life. And being an animal lover

> > > herself, my nada would completely understand this and be totally

> > > loving and supportive to me in this instance. I'm quite sure of it.

> > >

> > > But I didn't call her. I felt I couldn't. All these years I've been

> > > enmeshed so intensely with her, believe it or not, there have been

> > > times when she has been *wonderful* to me. But, there have also

> > been

> > > times when she has absolutely decimated me. And I know I have to

> > break

> > > the pattern. I know that in order to protect myself from future

> > > decimation, I have to get " unenmeshed. " I cannot continue to go to

> > her

> > > for love, because the closer I feel to her, the more it absolutely

> > > kills me when she turns around and chops my head off. I know this

> > from

> > > past experiences of closeness with her...the roller coaster ride is

> > > too much... I have to take the steps required to protect myself,

> > and

> > > that means not sharing my thoughts, feelings, fears, joys,

> > > heartbreaks... much as I may want to.

> > >

> > > Oh god. I am crying as I type this. Why? Because although I will

> > gain

> > > something important - and necessary - from my change in behavior, I

> > > cannot help but feel that I am also losing something very dear to

> > me.

> > > I miss my mom already. And I know she will miss me, in her own way,

> > > when she sees the change. Actually, I must revise that - what I'll

> > > miss is the " good mom. " But in order to keep her, I have to remain

> > > vulnerable to the " nada, " and I know I can't do it anymore.

> > >

> > > Has anyone else gone through feelings like this? Was it just that

> > > phone message that triggered these feelings of sadness and loss?

> > Am I

> > > freaking about this trip, and being apart from my dog - the real

> > > source of mutual, unconditional love in my life? I feel so lonely

> > > already. I can't help it... even though I know the change is

> > > necessary... just now it's making me terribly, terribly sad. I feel

> > > like a little girl crying the typical, " I want my mommy! " Except I

> > > guess I never, in the true sense, really had her.

> > >

> > > Holly

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Elana

What a GREAT post. I take great comfort from it! You really

described that terror when we finally declare our independence and

break free!

And yes -- we're demonized by the BPD, which is to be expected.

Hard to take, but we know we have to accept that as part of the

process.

And YES YOU CAN do it! You can continue on this road! Your freedom

is worth the initial nerve-wracking process of separation. You have

every right to your own life, constructed as you see fit, and your

own boundaries.

Just keep going -- good days, bad days, missteps and all -- just

keep going that new direction and forgive yourself for leaving the

craziness behind.

-Kyla

> > > >

> > > > Hi all,

> > > >

> > > > As many of you know I'm a real newbie, and just figured out

a

> > > couple

> > > > weeks ago (seems like a couple years in some ways) that I

have a

> > > > borderline parent. I read SWOE and UBM, joined this group,

and

> > > told my

> > > > best friends of my discovery and what it meant to me (one

dear

> > > friend

> > > > actually started crying because she was so happy I finally

found

> > > > answers). So, it has been a turbulent time marked by

surprise,

> > > shock,

> > > > exhuberance, grief, fear, relief, the works. (Add the fact

that I'm

> > > > about to go on a 2-week vacation with entire family & nada,

it's

> > > been

> > > > a really weird time for me.)

> > > >

> > > > So my nada has called a few times since I started my

research. At

> > > > first I felt guilty, like I was harboring a secret behind

her back

> > > > (the time she called while I was in the middle of typing on

this

> > > board

> > > > was nothing short of creepy). Some of these conversations

have been

> > > > innocuous. Others have been her throwing mini-fits, but

thankfully

> > > not

> > > > about me - just venting to me. And I totally used the

strategies I

> > > > learned from the books - listening to her and acknowledging

her

> > > > feelings, without saying anything that might egg her on

(eg, " Yes,

> > > the

> > > > cable people are notorious for never being on time; I'm

sorry you

> > > had

> > > > a crappy day. " or, in answer to her negativity about the

upcoming

> > > > trip: " Hmmmm. I didn't realize Royal Caribbean was

a 'budget'

> > > cruise

> > > > line. Never heard that before. I do hear the food is

delicious

> > > > though. " ) You get the idea.

> > > >

> > > > So last night, while out walking my dog, I get a message

from her

> > > > saying, " Guess what, the cable people finally showed up.

Just

> > > wanted

> > > > to let you know. Anyway, I'll be in all night if you feel

like

> > > > talking. Actually, I'll be in all night even if you don't

feel like

> > > > talking! So, hope you're out having fun. "

> > > >

> > > > I know my mother. She knows something is up. She can't put

her

> > > finger

> > > > on it but she has noticed a subtle difference in the way I'm

> > > > communicating. And here's the thing. Before two weeks ago, I

> > > > absolutely would have called her back. I kind of did want to

talk.

> > > I'm

> > > > having an issue I *know* she would be empathetic about - my

vet

> > > just

> > > > found a growth on my dog, and I'm getting the results of the

biopsy

> > > > the day before we leave. Even if this hadn't happened, I'd

be

> > > having

> > > > tremendous separation anxiety - but now I'm kind of freaking

> > > out... my

> > > > dog is the absolute love of my life. And being an animal

lover

> > > > herself, my nada would completely understand this and be

totally

> > > > loving and supportive to me in this instance. I'm quite sure

of it.

> > > >

> > > > But I didn't call her. I felt I couldn't. All these years

I've been

> > > > enmeshed so intensely with her, believe it or not, there

have been

> > > > times when she has been *wonderful* to me. But, there have

also

> > > been

> > > > times when she has absolutely decimated me. And I know I

have to

> > > break

> > > > the pattern. I know that in order to protect myself from

future

> > > > decimation, I have to get " unenmeshed. " I cannot continue to

go to

> > > her

> > > > for love, because the closer I feel to her, the more it

absolutely

> > > > kills me when she turns around and chops my head off. I know

this

> > > from

> > > > past experiences of closeness with her...the roller coaster

ride is

> > > > too much... I have to take the steps required to protect

myself,

> > > and

> > > > that means not sharing my thoughts, feelings, fears, joys,

> > > > heartbreaks... much as I may want to.

> > > >

> > > > Oh god. I am crying as I type this. Why? Because although I

will

> > > gain

> > > > something important - and necessary - from my change in

behavior, I

> > > > cannot help but feel that I am also losing something very

dear to

> > > me.

> > > > I miss my mom already. And I know she will miss me, in her

own way,

> > > > when she sees the change. Actually, I must revise that -

what I'll

> > > > miss is the " good mom. " But in order to keep her, I have to

remain

> > > > vulnerable to the " nada, " and I know I can't do it anymore.

> > > >

> > > > Has anyone else gone through feelings like this? Was it just

that

> > > > phone message that triggered these feelings of sadness and

loss?

> > > Am I

> > > > freaking about this trip, and being apart from my dog - the

real

> > > > source of mutual, unconditional love in my life? I feel so

lonely

> > > > already. I can't help it... even though I know the change is

> > > > necessary... just now it's making me terribly, terribly sad.

I feel

> > > > like a little girl crying the typical, " I want my mommy! "

Except I

> > > > guess I never, in the true sense, really had her.

> > > >

> > > > Holly

> > > >

> > >

> >

>