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[Guest guest]

Hi, my name is Connie. I am 48-years-old, married, and

have a grown child. I believe my mother has BPD. It

seems impossible for me to have a relationship with

her. I was in my teens when I realized that she was

very mentally ill. Through the years she has

fluctuated from literally hating me (and I'm not

kidding) to almost idealizing me (being extremely

loving and kind). Five years ago, she fluctuated to

her current state which is hating me and became very

hostile towards me and at times I would say sadistic.

I didn't seen it coming and it really hurt me. I stay

away from her now and have for many months - no

contact. I cannot bring myself to be around her and,

actually, to be honest, I am scared of her. I have one

sibling, a brother (we are the same age - twins) and I

would say that his relationship with our mother is

pretty much the same as mine. As of late, I have been

feeling a lot of guilt that I don't have any contact

with my mom. I am looking for support, understanding,

and advice on how to handle this situation in my life.

Thank you for accepting me and listening.

Connie

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[Guest guest]

I can relate entirely. My mother would act so hateful, and then

would try to patch it up by acting like she was stressed out because

she loved me so much... which she would try to explain away the

hatefulness. Sort of like blaming the victim.

I remember when I became truly afraid of my mother. About five

years ago. I remember the guilt and the depression. I would ask

myself: How is she? Is she missing me? What if she really would

be nice this time if I went back? What if I just imagined the whole

thing? What if I am crazy? I've done this many many times but

only through a lot of self-care, have overcome most of this. There

is still a lot of regret... but I know I can't make her be a normal

person any more than I can change anyone else into a different

person.

Keep reading and posting... get the books on BPD that are

recommended, read the posts and keep posting and you will find

support.

I've been where you are, and its not easy and it sometimes feels

like " I can't do this. " But you can do this and you must. I

decided life is too short to spend time with anyone, family or not,

who does not support me in being the best person I can be. Simple,

huh?

[Guest guest]

I highly acknowledge what Search & Genevieve wrote. I wish someone had

told me that so many years ago.

I was so scared of therapy one year ago. It was something Nada & Fada

would use as a threat when they wanted to point out how " bad " I was.

After one year, my life has already changed SO very much. The cost has

been a bit stressful, but somehow it always works out

> >

> > My best advice is find a source of counseling that you can live with

> > financially. I was lucky.. I worked for a mental health agency and

> > found one at no charge through a group provided by my employer. She

> > helped me keep focusing on MYSELF and I had to learn HOW to treat

> > myself kindly. I just plain didn't know how. I thought it was

> > selfish. It took her a LONG time to get it through to me to find

time

> > for myself... even the littlest things can make such a big

> > difference. It took a full two years to begin on old hobbies, things

> > I had given up for fear nada would make fun of me.

> >

> > Its like you learn to read when young, you learn to dress yourself,

> > and all those things, but with a BPD parent you don't learn to value

> > yourself and your opinions, and your life for its uniqueness.

> >

> > So, just imagine if you started to try to learn to read at your

> > current age, and had never done it before... for me this is what

> > learning to think on my own felt like... I had never done it before.

> >

> > It is hard work.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know how you feel. I first asked to see a therapist when I was 19

and had just gone to college. My parents told me not to go to student

health because it would go on my record and they would tell potential

admissions committees for graduate school.

Then when I came home to see a shrink/therapist, my father told me I

wasn't allowed to see them because they would brainwash me and never

let me get out of therapy. He said that if I felt like killing

myself, I should just go do more jumping jacks! lol It's just so out

there that now it makes me laugh (particularly since I am now more

stable with help and meds).

They also told me that I would never get hired in my chosen profession

and that everyone would know because for licensing they ask about

mental health issues. etc. etc. I was SO BRAINWASHED! Talk about

shaming someone who needs a little help! I really absorbed this stuff

and just tried to " tough " it out. Needless to say, my life just got

worse and worse. My only hope was that one day when I had a job I

could finally get some therapy (because I thought the only therapy out

there was ultra-expensive).

It's funny that the ONE thing that can really help people get out of

codependency and the terror of a bpd relationship is the EXACT thing

they SHAME you into believing you shouldn't go for. These people are

soooo clever. It's really incredible the subconscious tactics they use.

My nada still makes little jabs at me for being on antidepressants

(helloooo I probably need them because of you!). She's always calling

me crazy. I offered some homeopathy stuff I had bought for fun for

her to try. She said in a snide voice, " No. I'm not impressed with

their results. " Implying me!

I guess at some level this stuff bothers me, but I feel SO much better

about myself and am finally getting my life back on track for the

exact same things my family tries to shame me for.

The thing that is crazy is going through life without getting the help

that you need like my family. The only thing normal (or normalized)

in my family is me because I have now reached out and gotten the

appropriate care. It's actually the reverse of everything my family says.

Thanks for helping me not feel all alone with this.

Anyone else relate to being shamed for these things?

g.

> > >

> > > My best advice is find a source of counseling that you can live

with

> > > financially. I was lucky.. I worked for a mental health agency and

> > > found one at no charge through a group provided by my employer.

She

> > > helped me keep focusing on MYSELF and I had to learn HOW to treat

> > > myself kindly. I just plain didn't know how. I thought it was

> > > selfish. It took her a LONG time to get it through to me to find

> time

> > > for myself... even the littlest things can make such a big

> > > difference. It took a full two years to begin on old hobbies,

things

> > > I had given up for fear nada would make fun of me.

> > >

> > > Its like you learn to read when young, you learn to dress yourself,

> > > and all those things, but with a BPD parent you don't learn to

value

> > > yourself and your opinions, and your life for its uniqueness.

> > >

> > > So, just imagine if you started to try to learn to read at your

> > > current age, and had never done it before... for me this is what

> > > learning to think on my own felt like... I had never done it before.

> > >

> > > It is hard work.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I can so relate to this! Thank you for sharing your journey and

keep up the good work.

This was awhile ago now (I'm 43), but when I was 26 yrs old and

pregnant with my oldest child (single parent), my recovery journey

began (I got sober and started to get counseling for years). At that

time I was extremely enmeshed w/my Nada, and getting sober and

working on me became so painful precisely bc of nada's reaction to my

recovery process. The first 5 years, I struggled constantly bc I was

always trying to work on my relationship w/her (it was my biggest

problem, which in and of itself was painful). I so longed to have a

good relalationship with her. The more I tried the worse it got.

She engaged in some very hurtful behavior towards me when I was in

early recovery and raising 2 young children on my own. It was like

the stronger I became and the more I affirmed myself and empowered

myself by continuing on that path of self-discovery (recovery), the

more she rejected me, humiliated me, guilted and shamed me. the more

she seemed to despise me. It was really awful. And, I never

understood what was going on at the time, I just knew it hurt so bad,

I thought that I would die. I am beginning to understand what

happened now, that I've found this group and learned about BPD.

I could never understand how we could be so " close " when I was

ruining my own life and drinking myself to death (and 'putting her

through hell on earth'), but then when I began to do what I needed to

do to change and actually have a life, Nada began to act very hateful

towards me. Her response to my recovery shocked me, and it only got

worse and it took me YEARS of confusion and pain, and hard work in

therapy, for me to accept her the way she was and quit trying to have

as " healthy " relationship w/her or to be " close " .

Nada will denigrate any person with addiction (esp. drinkers), to me,

which has always given me the message hate/disgust/loathing on her

part towards people who have the same problem I have (which I've

always felt was really directed at me). When I was in my early 20's

I went through 3 inpatient tX centers for chemical dependency, and

she participated in all of these, playing the part of the supportive

mother (which never panned out in reality - it's SO PHONY!!!!). She

can also feign guilt, but not ever take responsibility or make an

apology for any mistake she may have made in the past or present.

She constantly tries to guilt trip me, especially if it concerns my

parenting of my own children, which is so ridiculous, bc I know in

reality she was never much of a real mother to me and still isn't,

and never will be.

I know now, that I either had the hero or the scapegoat role placed

upon me by my dysfunctional FOO (esp.nada) throughout my child and

well into adulthood (it's the scapegoat right now, which I fully

recognize and reject, this is self empowering!). When nada divorced

fada whe went through a drastic personality change (from the 'perfect

mom' part to someone I did not know). I literally all of a sudden

had no adults taking care of me at 10. Nada went from being a stay

at home Mom to never being home (work, college, and partying) over

night. She began to drink and smoke pot in our tiny apartment, so I

was exposed to drug abuse early on, and left home alone all the time,

thus I began using at 11 years old, no big surprise. I lived the

script that was layed before me very well, and became a drug abusing,

alcoholic young teenage girl (age 12-21) and young woman (24-26).

Nada shamed me, and shamed me for all of this, and played the victim

part oh so well (and still does). She plays up on all I did to her

in my childhood racked by alcoholism. Truthfully, I am very fotunate

I survived, bc I so easily could've accidentally killed myself. In

her mind I was always doing this TO HER, their was very little

concern for me or my welfare, do you see what I mean? My own

guilt/remorse & even the 12 step program process of 'making amends',

has prevented me from seeing all of this accurately, up until very

recently.

In addition, now, if/when I have any problems w/my own teens, it's

almost like she GLOATS(never mind their welfare, right), and sides

w/them against me. Thankfully, my own children have had a childhood

relatively free of exposure to the drug/alcohol culture and all that

goes with it. They have turned out wonderfully themselves, simply bc

they were allowed to, and I've raised them nearly the opposite of how

I was raised, not that I'm a perfect parent or anything (there is

always progress to be made, and I am always learning, and grateful I

am teachable!!!).

Sincerely,

Lynn

> > > >

> > > > My best advice is find a source of counseling that you can

live

> with

> > > > financially. I was lucky.. I worked for a mental health

agency and

> > > > found one at no charge through a group provided by my

employer.

> She

> > > > helped me keep focusing on MYSELF and I had to learn HOW to

treat

> > > > myself kindly. I just plain didn't know how. I thought it

was

> > > > selfish. It took her a LONG time to get it through to me to

find

> > time

> > > > for myself... even the littlest things can make such a big

> > > > difference. It took a full two years to begin on old hobbies,

> things

> > > > I had given up for fear nada would make fun of me.

> > > >

> > > > Its like you learn to read when young, you learn to dress

yourself,

> > > > and all those things, but with a BPD parent you don't learn to

> value

> > > > yourself and your opinions, and your life for its

uniqueness.

> > > >

> > > > So, just imagine if you started to try to learn to read at

your

> > > > current age, and had never done it before... for me this is

what

> > > > learning to think on my own felt like... I had never done it

before.

> > > >

> > > > It is hard work.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have been thinking: Just what is it that makes it so hard to

recover? What was it?

For me, at least, was the way my mother would absolutely act like,

and sometimes say, I was unloveable. Knowing what we know about how

humans develop, they have to have unconditional love in order to

develop normally. We did not get this. We got sneakiness,

manipulation, and sometimes when we least expected it, loathing.

That words sums it up. Like some of you say, just when we start to

become better people, (growing up), they get very uncomfortable with

this, even totally intolerant of it.

Here we are, just doing what we are supposed to do... and it is a

fight. Against the very person who is supposed to help us and be

proud of us for growing up.

I still struggle with this, oh, so hard. I'll have strings of many

days where I don't consciously think about it... then it will pop in

my head (ptsd) how I wish I could tell mom what I'm doing and just

share things with her.. .knowing I can't. Anything I would share

about my life that was happiness.. she'd get uncomfortable and start

a new conflict.

I fight a feeling of inferiority, every day. SOmeone might find me

out... that I'm really just stupid. I know I'm not.. but when

stress or change comes about... it gets triggered.

I don't go to therapy any more... but today I considered going

back. But, the good work she did with me has paid off and I can

keep going, remembering that it is NOT selfish to take care of my

wants and needs.

Love to all...

[Guest guest]

Part of what has made recovery difficult for me is the realization that this

disorder has affected me on so many levels. For instance, I haven't really

spoken to my mother in four years (only once when she phoned and I yelled at her

for 15 minutes), so I've had time to develop healthier habits overall and I

believe that I have. But then I will read this list or something will suddenly

clue in about how strange her behavior was. Like just yesterday, I realized

that her resentment of me because I was an only child and therefore

selfish...that's weird! It's not like I had any control over that situation.

I've found that this also happens when I'm reflecting on previous relationships

that I've been in and how much I tolerated when probably I should have walked

away. At least I am away now.

is

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[Guest guest]

Hey Lynn -

This is an inspiring post! You really came through hell on this one.

To be tacitly encouraged to use drugs and then be blamed for

it....arrgh! Congrats on getting through it all, and coming into your

happy life.

It was very helpful to me to read the bit about your mom hating you

more when you grew stronger. I went through something very similar,

but did not fully realize it until reading your post.

I also very much like the phrase that you are " grateful that you are

teachable " . How very wise of you. I'm often too proud (well, actually,

I guess insecure) to admit how much I need to learn. Good for you, and

thanks.

Letty

> > > > >

> > > > > My best advice is find a source of counseling that you can

> live

> > with

> > > > > financially. I was lucky.. I worked for a mental health

> agency and

> > > > > found one at no charge through a group provided by my

> employer.

> > She

> > > > > helped me keep focusing on MYSELF and I had to learn HOW to

> treat

> > > > > myself kindly. I just plain didn't know how. I thought it

> was

> > > > > selfish. It took her a LONG time to get it through to me to

> find

> > > time

> > > > > for myself... even the littlest things can make such a big

> > > > > difference. It took a full two years to begin on old hobbies,

> > things

> > > > > I had given up for fear nada would make fun of me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Its like you learn to read when young, you learn to dress

> yourself,

> > > > > and all those things, but with a BPD parent you don't learn to

> > value

> > > > > yourself and your opinions, and your life for its

> uniqueness.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, just imagine if you started to try to learn to read at

> your

> > > > > current age, and had never done it before... for me this is

> what

> > > > > learning to think on my own felt like... I had never done it

> before.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is hard work.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Lynn

What a great story. I also like th part about how being stronger

only served to make your mother humiliate you more... when you most

needed the support! This makes sense that now that I am getting

healthy my parents are still shaming me for the services that are

actually helping me (unlike their ultra-crappy parenting).

I also can relate to the part where when you needed help, she

complained about what your illness was doing to HER. My nada does

the same thing. It's like I'm such a burden to her by revealing I

need help. She can't stand anything to be " imperfect " even though no

human being is perfect. *wretch... It makes me pretty sick to see

how the person I thought would support me the most actually used

their position to really undermine me. yuck.

The part where you noted that her support seemed real in therapy only

to turn out to be false is an important point for me. People often

note how real emotions can seem with bps, only to find something else

more horrible is waiting behind this veneer. Recently I said goodbye

to my nada while I was moving and all these loving feelings came from

her. I couldn't help, but feel love and attachment back. I ended

calling her when I arrived, chatting about the little things

occurring in my day.... exactly the type of relationship I had been

avoiding.

I see now that even though those feelings seemed so real, there is no

way they could ever possibly be real when my nada has allowed my

father to him, has hit me herself, has shamed me every step of the

way, tries to comment and subconsciously control everything about my

life, flies into rages days before expressing these feelings etc.

Some people may disagree, but real love cannot be compatible with the

actions and the guiltless way she has performed them her whole life.

I really felt myself being hoovered back into the bpd rollercoaster.

I felt really really confused how I could still feel so attached

after all my efforts to really distance myself.

I think your point that these feelings can seem so real even if

they're not and will never pan out helped me to let go a bit. Thanks

for having the courage to share your wonderful story!

stay strong!

g.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My best advice is find a source of counseling that you

can

> > live

> > > with

> > > > > > financially. I was lucky.. I worked for a mental health

> > agency and

> > > > > > found one at no charge through a group provided by my

> > employer.

> > > She

> > > > > > helped me keep focusing on MYSELF and I had to learn HOW

to

> > treat

> > > > > > myself kindly. I just plain didn't know how. I thought

it

> > was

> > > > > > selfish. It took her a LONG time to get it through to me

to

> > find

> > > > time

> > > > > > for myself... even the littlest things can make such a

big

> > > > > > difference. It took a full two years to begin on old

hobbies,

> > > things

> > > > > > I had given up for fear nada would make fun of me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Its like you learn to read when young, you learn to dress

> > yourself,

> > > > > > and all those things, but with a BPD parent you don't

learn to

> > > value

> > > > > > yourself and your opinions, and your life for its

> > uniqueness.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, just imagine if you started to try to learn to read

at

> > your

> > > > > > current age, and had never done it before... for me this

is

> > what

> > > > > > learning to think on my own felt like... I had never done

it

> > before.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is hard work.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>