RE: *ahem* it

[Guest guest]

tim r, thank you so much for your MUCH-needed kind words and for making me

feel appreciated. bless you, tim. and you're right; i WAS hurt. you

stated very eloquently that you hoped " we can all gather in the support and

ignore the phrases that seem to salt our wounds... " so, in the spirit of

your sage wisdom, i'm going to put my hurt feelings aside, try and keep my

" irish " at bay (no easy feat, i assure you! after all, i AM a sensitive,

passionate woman of irish descent!), and do my best to help cindy (*deep

breath*):

dear cindy, my heart goes out to you. this certainly cannot be easy if

you've only been married 4 years (i've been married close to 26, and it

doesn't get any easier). as the type of person who calls a spade a spade,

let me struggle to word my response delicately: there " could " perhaps be one

option (for both you and ellen) which has not been fully discussed in this

support group (at least not to my knowledge): and that is to approach this

type of diminished " situation, " regardless of your gender, via a medical

testing of one's level of testosterone. as jim's doctors explained to us

(back when jim had his level tested), anyone, even women, could then opt for

a testosterone supplement in the hopes of " increasing " their levels of

(*ahem*). recently, there was even a whole oprah winfrey program devoted to

this same topic, albeit with a different, " menopausal " bent: nevertheless,

all her case studies and testimonies were of the theme of a testosterone

supplement making a world of difference for women (and their men)

experiencing this problem of " diminishment. " (<-- is there such a word?!

oh, you know what i mean!) :-)

i mention this as a possible option because i DON'T think your husband would

be too keen on " repressing " himself chemically, if you know what i mean.

so perhaps you can raise this topic the next time you see your doctor. do

your homework beforehand, so you can be positive, confident and assertive

when dialoguing with your doctor about it. it's a simple matter of a blood

test, something which PSCers are all-too-familiar with on a very regular

basis!

what i'm about to say may be (mis?)construed as an unfair generality about

men, but while i was " licking my wounds " offline last night, i was pondering

this very issue that you raised (so what about healthy husbands who have PSC

wives?!?). at the risk of generalizing, i DO personally think that this

might be " harder " on the " healthy " husband than it would a " healthy " wife.

based solely on my understanding of jim, his denial about his own illness,

his lack of understanding about and tendency to trivialize my chronic asthma

(and even more denial whenever i experience life-threatening attacks), if

the situation were reversed and i was the one with PSC (not jim), i would

think he would surely lack a certain level of understanding about my

fatigue, etc. he would want " it " whenever he felt so inclined (which before

he fell ill nearly 17 years ago, was ALL the time, trust me). i concluded

that he WOULD indeed be sorely tempted... but as high school sweethearts, he

has never known another woman, and he also communicated to me once upon a

time that he wants to go to his grave an old man, having NEVER " known "

another women (*ahem,* in the biblical sense of the word).

it can't be easy for any healthy man with a healthy " appetite " who has a

wife who rarely if ever feels " in the mood, " to be sure. nonetheless, those

" for better, for worse, in sickness and in health " wedding vows ARE uttered

by BOTH parties and are SUPPOSED to work BOTH ways! i don't know about your

world, honey, but in my world, there's NO " double standard " that says it's

UNacceptable for women to stray, but it's perfectly fine for a man to tomcat

around and cheat on his wife 'cause, after all, he's not getting his

conjugal rights at home with the wifey-poo. UGH!

temptation is temptation. there's no " gender bias " when it comes to matters

of temptation! and at the risk of being labeled judgmental (or whatever) if

i dare call it " sin, " unfaithfulness is just plain... WRONG. it's wrong

whether you're female OR male. there are people out there who ARE going to

be able to stay strong, and therefore true to their marital vow commitment;

but because mankind by his very nature is " sinful " (if you object to that

word, you can substitute the word " carnal " ), it therefore follows that there

are also people who WILL struggle and unfortunately fail.

you may or may not consider the following to be an option: if you happen to

be a person of faith who -- beyond simply " believing " in God -- actually

" has " a relationship with God, then i would advise that you talk/pray to

Him, because He IS always there for you, and He cares, and He's promised

those who love Him that there is NO temptation out there that exceeds our

ability to withstand... that is, if we persist in asking for His help.

of COURSE you want to " preserve your relationship. " he's your husband, and

you love him. and just because your friend with the sick kidney happens to

be married to an unfaithful man, this does NOT necessarily mean that you

will someday experience her fate. you ALSO have the option of seeking out a

good (individual OR joint) counselor regarding this matter. counseling is

like " insurance " : one should NOT have to wait until a problem rears its ugly

head! we would all be very wise to seek counsel (secular or spiritual or

both) BEFORE a problem arises... head the problem off at the pass, so to

speak... nip it in the bud.

i'm here as proof to say that there ARE alternatives to physical " intimacy. "

if that's true for women, then it MUST be true for men, too. men and women

ARE different, but they aren't all THAT different, not in this area. there

are many different types of love languages (and there's a good book out

there on " love languages " ): we have our own unique ways in which we express

love, and we have our own unique needs, too. perhaps our need is that of

" time, " or companionship. perhaps our way of expression is found in special

acts of service. perhaps we're more the touchy-feely type. any good

counselor (or that book i mentioned) can help you and your dear husband

reach common ground. and yes, you DO have the option of " giving " without

" receiving. " but since jim " used " to tell me (long ago in a galaxy far, far

away) that MY experience used to heighten HIS, well, the way most men seem

to be wired, i'd think that all-too-frequently, their level of satisfaction

(and how they view their overall performance) comes in part from their

ability to pleasure the person they love and adore.

males and females are wired SO differently, i used to be flippant and say

God must have had a pretty bizarre sense of humor when He made adam and eve

:-) now i try to be less sarcastic, smile, and say positively, " vive la

difference! "

hang in there, cindy, and be BOLD enough to talk to your doctor about this!

i'll say a pray for you -- because i so sincerely care.

time for me to get ready to drive up to the " happiest place on earth, "

a.k.a. disneyland. :-) we're going to support our youngest, 16-year old

jillian, by watching her participate in a national cheerleading competition

tomorrow. for the first time in what seems like forever, we won't be

accompanied by our other children. since jim and i are both chronically

fatigued (his PSC and my asthma), we've booked a room at the Disneyland

hotel -- so we can both NAP!

all the best,

maureen :-)

[Guest guest]

Is

it at all possible to keep some of these posts private? Wouldn’t it be easier to write to Ellen

and one on one? Then no one

would get angry, no one would have hurt feelings and no one would leave the

group.

Isn’t

it important that we all stay together? We have a member in pain, period! Lets honor that, pray for

some relief, and not keep throwing these jabs at him at every post. Please. Please.

Barb in Texas ( Son, Ken - UC 1991

PSC 8/1999 )