Re: Daily diet

[Guest guest]

At 10:17 AM 2/14/99 +0000, you wrote:

>

>

>As a new diabetic, I'm getting a bit paranoid as to what to eat. The

>nutritionist told our " diabetic management group " what we shouldn't eat,

>but not what we could--only to read labels and that we could have an

>occasional treat. I scan labels looking for lowest carbs and lowest fats

>(and avoiding red meat since I don't eat it and aspartame since it gives

>me horrendous headaches. Could some of you post a list of the things you

>eat for a typical day's meals?

>Becky

I think it varies a lot from person to person. High fibre is good.

Non-soluble

fibre, like in muesli, helps with bulking up the stools and slows digestion.

Soluble fibre, found in guar heavy products, and pectin, in fruit, tend to

coat carbs and sugars and slow down their digestion. Fish is good

because of its effect on raising HDL cholesterol (the good type) -- diabetics

are more subject to circulation problems than most -- and monosaturated

fats like canola oil and olive oil have the same effect, and are a bit better

than polyunsaturated fats -- fat consumption should be kept down in any case.

I generally avoid prepared foods (when I have the time), and go for noodles,

rice and whole grain breads (I like dark rye). They all have lower glycemic

indexes than white or whole wheat bread.

When I exercise, I eat fruit, especially in season. Bananas help with

potassium

in hot weather, but have a high glycemic index -- perfect for short (<20 min)

exercise. When I swim an hour or more, I often eat a chocolate bar about 30

minutes before, since it provides lots of energy, and it's hard to carry

fruit

or glucose in the water (though some people do) -- I swim fast and don't like

to be encumbered.

[Guest guest]

Collier writes:

<< ... Type 1 and Type 2 differ so much that a lot that applies to one doesn't

apply to the other. If I tried to manage my diabetes by diet alone, I would die.

>>

And that is what I get for posting when I am half-asleep, at 5 am! , I

should have recalled that you are type 1. But it is a good idea for us to

identify our diabetes type, as only some of the advice we share is applicable to

both types.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Susie, I'm sorry - carbs and glycaemic index:

Nutrients with the same amount of carbs may influence the rise in BG-values

differently entering the blood. This is " The Glycaemic Index " .

By the glycaemic index, the impact on BG-values of carbhydrate containing

nutrients is compaired to the effect of pure glucose (in its simplest form).

This means that pure glucose has an index, lets say of 1,00.

Pure juice a somewhat lower index, lets say 0,85

Milk / youghurt, lets say 0,75

banana, lets say 0,60

bread, lets say 0,50

etc.

This means that the higher the index the bigger impact on BG.

If you attempt a quick rise in BG, to prevent a hypo, its better to use glucoe,

juice than bread and banana.

If you are going to supply longer acting and slower absorbed carbs to paint the

fence, without going hypo

its better to have some bread or banana for energy. OK?

Tests have shown that the impact of lets say beans have a very limited impact on

BG-values, so as Type-1

you do not have to count them taking insulin, as these veggs are so slowly

absorbed, that most of their contents of carbs

have passed the sections in the bowel, where carbs can be absorbed, before being

absorbed.

Oluf

[Guest guest]

Oluf nson writes:

<< Susie, I'm sorry - carbs and glycaemic index: Nutrients with the same

amount of carbs may influence the rise in BG-values differently entering the

blood. This is " The Glycaemic Index " . By the glycaemic index, the impact on

BG-values of carbhydrate containing nutrients is compaired to the effect of

pure glucose (in its simplest form). >>

They are using a slice of white bread as the standard now. The Glycemic

Index is a theory that is accepted by some researchers and rejected by

others. There is a group at Toronto University, headed by Dr. Wolever, that

supports it, whereas the researchers at Stanford University, headed by Ann

Coulston and Gerald Reaven, do not. There was a lively exchange between them

regarding its efficacy in, I believe, the March 1997 issue of " Diabetes

Forecast. " Dr. Wolever's response is included on one of Rick Mendosa's

diabetes pages. What has been found is that individual responses to

individual foods are not very predictable, with the same person getting

different readings upon repeat testing, and different people getting

different responses to foods with the same glycemic index. Many factors seem

to impact the results as well, including, e.g., the ripeness of bananas, how

long the rice is cooked, what foods are eaten with the subject foods, etc.

So the Glycemic Index is a theory that is so far not very reliable, but

which may be of some help to a diabetic in selecting a healthy diet. The

danger I see in accepting this controversial theory as " gospel " is in

believing that there are " good carbohydrates. " All carbohydrates cause a

reaction in diabetics. Even foods with a low Glycemic Index impact our

glucose response - just to a lesser extent.

<< This means that the higher the index the bigger impact on BG. If you

attempt a quick rise in BG, to prevent a hypo, its better to use glucoe,

juice than bread and banana. If you are going to supply longer acting and

slower absorbed carbs to paint the fence, without going hypo its better to

have some bread or banana for energy. OK? >>

Hypos are not a major problem for most type 2's. Here once again is the rub:

Type 1's and type 2's talking to each other without recognizing the

differences we face. You assume that we must get our energy from carbs and

that carbs are necessary for maintenance. Of the three food groups,

carbohydrates is the only one we can survive without (the brain can run on

ketones). That is why many diabetics and others do quite nicely on a

carbohydrate intake of 100, 50, 30, or even 20 grams a day. As a very

general rule, type 1's tend to be more insulin-focused and hypo-aversive,

often eating to match their dosages, whereas type 2's in good control are

more cognizant of the impact carbohydrates have on us because 85 percent of

us are Syndrome X. Syndrome X'ers are insulin-resistant. What that would

mean if applied to a type 1 is you eat a big plate of pasta and you inject

20 units of insulin and you continue to spiral upward; you inject another 20

units and you still spiral upward. We can spew out insulin but nothing

happens. That is the crux of why we fuss over food intake, while type 1's

(most of whom are not insulin-resistant) talk about eating carbohydrates as

if they are not a major problem for diabetics. Type 1's think, " I can eat

this delicious plate of fettucine alfredo and just take extra insulin to

cover it. " Type 2's with still-functioning pancreases eat that same

delicious plate of pasta and their readings can go nuts. Pills, if they are

on them, have only limited success, and can produce a hypo (if they are on

sulfonylureas) as well as other side-effects.

Type 1's and type 2's have different experiences, and we have to keep

remembering them. I would not want to tell a type 1, e.g., to try a

ketogenic-level low-carb diet if that person were not keenly aware of and

prepared for the dramatic lowering of glucose levels and need for insulin

this dietary change would generate. And type 1's need to recall that most of

the readers they address are insulin-resistant type 2's, with different

needs.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Susie, I'm with you. If I ate those foods I too would be in serious trouble.

However, I've learned -- not only are all diabetics different, but my own

reaction to certain foods can change. Now that I've started on insulin I

expect I can eat a few foods that were formerly offl limits for me. I'm using

a Humalog pen and matching carbs to insulin; 30 carbs per unit. So far,

except when I've miscalculated the carbs (tricky in a restaurant) , I've

gotten pretty good results . Vicki .

<< It's always interesting to see our amazing differences in diet! If I ate

many of the foods eats, I would be in serious trouble! Noodles, rice,

breads, fruit (*especially* bananas) and chocolate would all send my

readings sky-high ... as would potatoes and some other veggies. I get much

of my potassium and other nutrients from pills. Just a reminder to folks

that the Glycemic Index is only a listing of foods which are fairly to

extremely high in carbohydrates. There are several food items that have

little or no carbohydrates ... and those of us managing our diabetes on diet

alone favor those.

>>

[Guest guest]

Good point, Oluf. When I was trying to control on low carbs and pills only, I

noticed that beans didn't seem to affect my BGs. Well, maybe a little but

certainly not as much as pasta, rice or potatos. And now that I'm on insulin,

my educator said to take the Humalog immediately before eating EXCEPT in the

case of beans (and fried chicken), in which case to take it after eating.

[Guest guest]

Susie, you said that hypos are not a problem for type IIs. Maybe that

clarifies whether I'm a 1 or 2 . Even my doc seems confused about this. I'm

the thin lady who just started insulin. As mentioned, I've been matching carbs

to dose. Today my count was a little high for lunch (158) so I took one unit

Humalog and had a 25-carb meal. Then I did a short but rather vigorous walk

(including some grade). Two hours after eating I checked and my BG was 60!

(but I was feeling fine). Three glucose pills and 15 minutes later I was at

90. Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 99-02-20 09:42:53 EST, you write:

<< Vicki, how many units of insulin are you taking daily, and which kind(s)? I

am interested in how you are progressing. >>

Hi, Susie, I'm trying not to go more than 2 units Humalog per meal so max 60

carbs per meal (which is a lot compared to what I used to do). I'm doing very

good when I eat at home and can measure food amounts and/or read package but

both times when I ate out I miscalculated and didn't take enough so I was high

two hours later. However, it's better to be high (and learn for next time)

then go hypo. I'm also taking 2 units NPH at bedtime which has lowered my

fasting BG to very nice numbers -- 110, 116, 120 rather than 150-170 which it

was previously. I also am learning how to compensate for exercise: I need to

have extra carbs (like 40 carbs for one shot H) if I'm going to gym or

walking vigorously after that meal. Again, the only thing I don't like about

it is when eating out having to dash to restroom right when food comes to

shoot. Although if I can get that post from Oluf again about how to do it in

abdomen for thin person I'll give it a try. Vicki

[Guest guest]

Vicki writes:

<< ... I'm using a Humalog pen and matching carbs to insulin; 30 carbs per

unit ... >>

Vicki, how many units of insulin are you taking daily, and which kind(s)? I

am interested in how you are progressing.

Susie

[Guest guest]

type 1

hello all,

because of the variation between type 1 and can i suggest that everyone

identify in each email stating either type1 or 2 condition, as above. the

advice or knowledge being shared would certainly have more value.

regards andrew

[Guest guest]

You are right, . Good idea.

Oluf, 52, Type-1, Dxd Oct.-98

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----

Fra: brownasw

Til: diabetes_intonelist <diabetes_intonelist>

Dato: 25. februar 1999 13:37

Emne: Re: Daily diet

>

>

>type 1

>hello all,

>

>because of the variation between type 1 and can i suggest that everyone

>identify in each email stating either type1 or 2 condition, as above. the

>advice or knowledge being shared would certainly have more value.

>

>regards andrew

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>