Re: Re: Recovering from Paxil

[Guest guest]

I may be able to get him to take the Wellbutrin..would it help at all to give it to him every other day as the doctor suggested or would we just end up in the same situation?

I'm sure will verify this, but PLEASE DO NOT GIVE YOUR SON WELLBUTRIN!!!!! It is not even in the same class as Paxil CR -- it won't help him, and in fact, could make him very much worse. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. but hang in there. We're all here to help.

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[Guest guest]

,

You asked which type paxil my son was taking...it was the Paxil CR I believe that's the extended release.

> Magnesium and Calcium help with the anxiety. They also relax muscles. Info on this is also in the files (see URL above). Depending on what else he experiences there are other things that can help. They are specific to the person's symptoms. > For right now, I would also get Bach Flower Essence Cherry Plum. This is for explosiveness. The typical dosing on this is 4 drops 4xa day. Most natural food stores carry this. It is also available online. There is info on this in the files, too.

I will pick up these items tomorrow...hopefully he will take them...he can be so difficult and so paranoid.

> ** Your son's instincts are correct. Any antidepressant drug he takes like this will leave him in the situation he is now in. This includes amytriptyline.

What about the Elavil for sleep? Should he continue using it? I never understood.

We have only a couple of the 12.5 paxil cr left. I sure hate to have to go back to the doctor for more..as a matter of fact I don't believe my son will go back. He's really ticked off about all of this. We do have the Wellbutrin the doctor gave him which he was suppose to begin taking every other day after the Paxil ran out. He has 2 bottles (containing 7 pills) of Wellbutrin 300 mg. and two bottles of Wellbutrin 150 mg. Can he use these rather than the Paxil?

> ** This was a 50% decrease. We've found that decreases of 5-10% and then waiting until the chemistry stabilizes before doing it again is the way to go.

It's a shame the doctor didn't advise us of this...he's been through so much already....

Could you give me an educated guess on what to expect (and how long) if he continues trying to do this cold turkey? It has gotten better......Are there people in this group who have managed to quit taking Paxil cold turkey? He really does not want to take anymore of this drug...I may be able to get him to take the Wellbutrin..would it help at all to give it to him every other day as the doctor suggested or would we just end up in the same situation?

I have one other question...what about drinking alchohal? He swears having a few beers really helps, he also swears that smoking pot helps...btw...he doesn't do either on a regular basis (or at home).

My son wanted me to ask, where you gained all your knowledge & information (about anti-depressants) from?

We do appreciate your help...thanks again...

Cheryl &

[Guest guest]

Dear Cheryl and ,

You said:

<<You asked which type paxil my son was taking...it was the Paxil CR I

believe that's the extended release. >>

** Damn. I was hoping this wasn't the case. You can't cut down

gradually on a controlled release drug. When you break it up it defeats the

controlled release and releases the entire amount into the system. This is

the industry's way of ensuring lifetime customers.

You would have to get the regular Paxil formulation. The good news is

that is available as a liquid which allows for fine-tuning the withdrawal.

I said:

> Magnesium and Calcium help with the anxiety. They also relax muscles.

Info >on this is also in the files (see URL above). Depending on what else

he >experiences there are other things that can help. They are specific to

the >person's symptoms.

> For right now, I would also get Bach Flower Essence Cherry Plum. This

is >for explosiveness. The typical dosing on this is 4 drops 4xa day.

Most natural >food stores carry this. It is also available online. There

is info on this in the >files, too.

You replied:

<<I will pick up these items tomorrow...hopefully he will take them...he can

be so difficult and so paranoid.>>

** He may be more open to it if he saw this group and people were to

post about their experiences this way.

You said:

<<What about the Elavil for sleep? Should he continue using it? I never

understood. >>

** If you begin the Paxil he cannot take the Elavil. They compete with

each other in being metabolized. This could leave toxic amounts in his

system.

You said:

<<We have only a couple of the 12.5 paxil cr left. I sure hate to have to

go back to the doctor for more..as a matter of fact I don't believe my son

will go back. He's really ticked off about all of this. We do have the

Wellbutrin the doctor gave him which he was suppose to begin taking every

other day after the Paxil ran out. He has 2 bottles (containing 7 pills) of

Wellbutrin 300 mg. and two bottles of Wellbutrin 150 mg. Can he use these

rather than the Paxil? >>

** I can understand his reticence about going back. I'm sure he feels

duped. As far as switching to Wellbutrin, I wouldn't recommend it. He's

already switched to Elavil another antidepressant. Though many physicians

believe these drugs are pretty much the same (in many respects they are),

they don't stand in very well for each other. As each has its own unique

way of manipulating neurotransmitters this kind of switch ends up wreaking

havoc with the brain. About the only switch that I would normally

recommend would be substituting Prozac liquid for Paxil if, and only if

going very slowly (I'll help you devise a schedule for this) off the liquid

Paxil is still intolerable. Switching to Prozac can still can be a

difficult transition. Unlike Paxil which has a very short half-life, Prozac

has a very long one (about 216 huors). Judging from your son's reaction to

Paxil he is a slow metabolizer of drugs metabolized by the 2D6 metabolizing

enzyme from the P450 enzymes. Prozac is also metabolized by 2D6. This

would mean he could take a low dose as what he took would stay in his body

to some extent perhaps even longer than the 216 hours. This concerns me.

People who are slow metabolizers of 2D6 drugs can experience a build-up of

Prozac that is up tp 200x the amount that should be in their bodies. As you

could imagine, this puts a person in a state of not knowing what thry are

doing. They can often become quite violent.

Overall, I really recommend the Paxil liquid. You can adjust this dose

so easily and this is the drug his neurotransmitters are used to having.

I said:

> This was a 50% decrease. We've found that decreases of 5-10% and then

>waiting until the chemistry stabilizes before doing it again is the way to

go.

You replied:

<<It's a shame the doctor didn't advise us of this...he's been through so

much already....>>

** Fro years now, physicians have ignored patients' complaints about this

the extent of the withdrawal phenomenon. They do this because when they call

the drug manufacturer to check with them, they are told that the drug

doesn't do this. Instead of listening to patient after patient complain,

they go with what the drug co. says.

You said:

Could you give me an educated guess on what to expect (and how long) if he

continues trying to do this cold turkey? It has gotten better......Are

there people in this group who have managed to quit taking Paxil cold

turkey? He really does not want to take anymore of this drug...I may be

able to get him to take the Wellbutrin..would it help at all to give it to

him every other day as the doctor suggested or would we just end up in the

same situation? >>

** You really can't do this cold turkey. People can be damaged for a

lifetime this way. We have people here 1,2,3, and even 5 years post-cold

turkey. They will tell you that it is the worst thing one could do. It's

too much of a shock to the chemistry. The brain needs time to adjust and

compensate for the changes made.

" Cold turkey " people, please speak up here with your experiences.

You said:

<<I have one other question...what about drinking alchohal? He swears

having a few beers really helps, he also swears that smoking pot

helps...btw...he doesn't do either on a regular basis (or at home).>>

** I'm sure he does find both helpful. Alcohol increases GABA which is

the main inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain. Neurons in every brain

region use GABA to fine-tune signaling throughout the nervous system. An

increase in serotonin and norepinephrine (Elavil is doing this) causes

craving for alcohol. The increase in GABA helps him escape the misery of

his chemistry for a while.

Pot affects norepinephrine and dopamine. By raising dopamine, some of

the withdrawal symptoms are mediated. Unfortunately, by using alcohol and

pot the brain chemistry is kept in a constant state of flux and cannot

settle in and find pathways to work properly post-Paxil. I know a number of

people who ended up abusing these substances in order to self-medicate from

the effects of antidepressants.

There are definitely ways to more gently increase dopamine and serotonin

(supplements and foods).

You said:

My son wanted me to ask, where you gained all your knowledge & information

(about anti-depressants) from?>>

** It may sound strange but I'll take that risk.

Sometimes there are things the Universe/God/fill in the blank drops in

one's lap that one cannot ignore. I've been doing this work since about

1986 when I wasn't allowed to ignore what I was seeing as withdrawal

syndromes and long term damage in people taking psychotropic drugs. Since

then, I've immersed myself in this. I can't not. It's like a calling, a

passion.

You said:

<<We do appreciate your help...thanks again...>>

** You're quite welcome.

Regards,