Re: St s Wort - last question everyone

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally

I have read our posts and am really sorry that things are still not

going too well and that you are being put under all this extra

pressure - but

please take a step back and look at the whole situation -

Before I was put on SSRIs I was diagnosed with depression at a time

when I was physically and emotionally exhausted - 16 months out of a

9.5 year relationship with a partner who was dominating, manipulative

and turned progressively into an absolute bully over the final 3yr's -

a month after the relationship ended he had assaulted me -

--we were still living in the same house by agreement because my house

in another area was rented out and I could not move back there until

it was vacant and two of my children were in the middle of their O and

A levels exams--

The result of the assault was a knee injury that left me in plaster

for 11 weeks --surgery after 6 and re-plastered-- and on crutches for

over 8 months --last op Dec 04-- This prevented me moving from the

tied cottage we shared when the children had finished their exams and

my home became vacant - After the assault he'd moved out - but

returned on a daily basis because it was his cottage - tied to his job

- on the farm he worked on - he left the dogs with me over night -

This gave him a reason to come back and the opportunity to carry on

bullying me -

Within two weeks of the assault he had engaged solicitors to get me

out of the cottage - so I had to engage legal help - I was now

dependant on benefits - Because the children did not want to move

back to where my house was I had put it on the market - I qualified as

a single parent to move and still qualify for housing benefit without

having to go through the qualifying period again - I told the benefit

agency from the start what I was doing and why - When it became vacant

they disallowed housing costs on the grounds that I was not living

their - although it was our main and only home and I was not claiming

housing costs for the cottage as it was rent and rate free - Although

I had offered to pay my ex's employer rental costs - had refused -

With the help of friends local to where we were living --apx 170 miles

from my own house-- I had found another house but the benefit agency

would not officially tell the building society that housing benefit

would be paid until I could resume work - On completion of the sale 3

months after the assault and 3 weeks out of plaster I was told that as

I now had capitol in the bank I no longer qualified for benefits and

payments were withdrawn - I started to look for a rented property -

but was still not driving and most had gone by the time I had been

sent the details --the cottage was 15 miles nearest estate agent and

not on a bus route--

I had lost our home and security - The bullying was still on going -

along with a smear campaign by my ex about my deliberately staying in

the property just to make things difficult for him - putting our

mutual friends and associates in an awkward and compromised situation

- Because of the injury I was seeing my Dr on a 3 weekly basis to get

sick notes to send to the benefit agency - He asked me how things were

going - I broke down in tears - he judged me to be depressed and

wanted me to take Lustral - I knew I was just physically and

emotionally exhausted - I took the script but at that time not the

tablets - A CPN was engaged and he visited about 4 months after the

assault and a about a month after loosing my house - I have a copy of

his letter to my Dr --I got it from the CPN later-- in it he states

that I am not depressed although understandably upset and worried

about my situation - I was keeping house - looking after the children

and dealing with everything and that he didn't see the need for

further visits - I was discharged -

I had been to the council but the only way they would offer me housing

was to condemn the cottage --it was horrendously damp-- but that meant

contacting my ex's employers - and the council would not give me a

time scale for moving me - I was concerned about reprisals in the

intervening period so said I wouldn't let them take action - Reprisals

and our inability to move from the cottage and on-farm situation was

also the reason I did not take legal action against him - We were

trapped on private property where to a point we had no rights to be -

I didn't push any buttons that would inflame any reaction on myself or

the children -

I eventually managed to find a property to rent and moved in the

January just short of 7 months after the assault and by then with

eviction court action hanging over my head - and from a safe distance

started to try and address the other issues of the split from my ex

namely the £20 K + of his debts most of which were in my name because

of his bad credit rating and that I had settled on the understanding

that once I moved he had promised to sort out - I arranged to go back

to College in the September because the knee injury would prevent me

doing any of the jobs I had previously done - I had moved on and was

making a new life for myself - But I wanted the financial debris

sorted before I started College so I could fully apply myself -

By the summer no progress had been made so when my ex's father

contacted me I was happy to talk to him --we had always got on really

well-- and when he said he would be willing to act as a go between to

sort out the matter of the car I was relieved - but he continued to

say that if I let him have the car back that my ex would let

everything else go and he wouldn't put a claim in against the house

and the endowment policy - and after all as he was letting me keep the

house I should be grateful - I had apparently twisted my ankle - I had

also 'apparently' promised to return the car to my ex once I had moved

and he had 'apparently' paid for a substantial repair to my property -

I was gob smacked - I had paid for the car - I had extended my

mortgage to pay for the repairs - I had the paperwork to prove it -

and I settle all the debts -

During the 4 hour long phone call - - I found out the extent of the

lies he had spread about our relationship - finances - my indebtedness

to him - - and - I enlightened him - about the injury - the debts he'd

left me with - the loss of my house - the fact that during our

relationship my ex had not kept us - Never put a penny into the house

or even contributing towards the bills when he had stayed there when

he was between jobs - That as it had been my matrimonial home --1st

marriage-- that I had kept instead of taking maintenance for the

myself and the children - That he had no claim on it - or the

endowment that insured my 1st husband and my lives - The way he had

turned his back on the children who had called him Dad - The bullying

- and everything else -

We arranged a meeting when he would bring my ex - this was cancelled

the following day - My ex --who hadn't known about his fathers

intervention or offer until he was told about the meeting-- contacted

me and was furious about what I had said - I was put mentally put back

14 months to the time of the assault - I wasn't depressed - Just

thrown into all the anxiety and stress which by now my body after the

previous few years was just not up to taking -

**

------I had always maintained that my original symptoms were 'low

adrenal reserve / adrenal exhaustion' due to prolonged periods of

stress (I won't go into this now - but my life has been very stressful

going back to early childhood) - I had - after very stressful events -

suffered with this since puberty and was sure that the symptom were

physical not mental -

I also felt that the eventual diagnosis of depression / PND after my

second pregnancy resulted from the hormonal changes and trauma of

childbirth in addition to the stress leading to further demands on my

already compromised endocrine system - and my body just not be able to

cope - the symptoms were physical the same as before pregnancy but

worse -

And eventually after finding and the s index and

charts I was to see how right I was - they were all there in black and

white - I had - for about 17 years successfully self treated with

supplements - diet and on 3 extreme occasions very small therapeutic

doses of cortisol taken daily for 6 to 8 weeks -

The 'depression' would only return when in conjunction with stressful

periods - funds were tight and I --as mum's do-- dropped the

supplements because I couldn't afford them ( and bringing up 3

children on my own it happened a few times) or when I stopped them

because of ridicule from my partners which always happened at

stressful periods because of their natures - - And my first

pregnancy? Well I think on reflection that the only reason I didn't

get a PND diagnosis that time was because my husband was having an

affair and left me when my daughter 6 day's old - which resulted in my

fight and flight system taking over and kick starting my adrenals

-----

**

I knew I was heading for trouble - I was nowhere near the private

clinic I had used on the occasions I had taken the cortisol - I'd

changed Dr's and he was a new entity I had never seen him only the

nurse who registered me - But I thought that maybe medical advancement

might have enlightened the Dr's to LAR / AE by then so booked an

appointment - I was offered Lustral on the strength of a 4 min

consultation and a cursory glance at my notes to see what my last

script was for - I told him I didn't want them because they had made

me feel worst - --The year before I had --when the eviction papers

arrived just before Xmas and my ex had broken in to the cottage taking

things that weren't his-- tried two tablets from the original script

from my previous Dr - they had really made me feel weird so I took on

more-- - but at that time I couldn't explain - He wouldn't let me try

and just told me I hadn't given them a chance to work -

I went home and carried on -

I went back about a two month later by which time I had started

college --how many depressed people are looking forward to and start

new college course planning a new career-- and tried to explain how I

felt and what I thought the problem was - He caught me at a vulnerable

time - I was physically and mentally exhausted - He was ex army with a

Dr's smug arrogance and a Majors patronisation and authority - I was

still reeling from the call and revelations a few months before and

the forced recollection of all that had happened - I was used to

taking the easy way out and saying yes to avoid arguments -

I was an easy target and he took full advantage - He bullied me - He

put the onus back on me by saying 'well - IF you don't WANT to get

better!!' - and I did, I really did - He wrote in half inch high

letters across my notes 'SHE NEEDS TO TAKE CONTROL' - and I WAS trying

to do just that - and I thought however much I distrust the medical

profession surely no-one would put a drug on the market that was

dangerous if taken how and for what it is prescribed! - and I thought

IF I complied and it didn't work he would HAVE to listen to me -

I cannot believe how stupid and naive I was - 6 months later I was

nearly dead -

A year later the same CPN was called in - He now assessed me to be

within one point of the top of whatever the scale / index is that they

use to assess depression - sorry I can't even remember what it's

called - Apart from the fact that my ex wasn't bullying me and we were

now off-farm - I was in exactly the same situation - the only

difference was my 6 month excursion into La la Lustral land -

Sally - I guess what I'm trying to say is don't be bullied into

something that you don't feel is right for you - or your not

comfortable with - Trust your instincts - You know how awful the drugs

make you feel - You know how hard it has been to get off them -

I cannot believe that your husband (who I'm sure is doing it because

he loves and cares for you) and your Dr are issuing ultimatums and

putting you under so much pressure about this at this time -

instilling fear - uncertainty - self doubt - Surely they can see -

understand - appreciate that this and the additional stress it is

causing will only exacerbate the problem -

I recently wrote this to you -

" When you really think about it the hormonal balance of your body has

not had a chance to adjust since you started the IVF - it's estimated

that it takes the body about a year to eighteen months get over and

readjust from a normal pregnancy - by this time the drugs will then

have stepped in to further disrupt the endocrine system - you really

need to give yourself and your body time to get itself sorted out -

don't be so hard on your self - your doing remarkably well -

And as far as this being the " real " you - I don't think it is - just

think back to the " real " you before the drugs even before the IVF -

what ever symptoms you now have are a result of the drugs and

hormones you have taken - you weren't depressed - didn't have panic

attacks - you might have been low and anxious because you wanted a

family but you certainly didn't have all these symptoms that the drugs

have caused - the " real " you is still there and struggling to get out

- that's why you are feeling all these emotions - "

What you are going through is normal for your post drug situation and

recovery - Maybe they can't see that side - but - over and above that

if I can look at the whole picture and understand what you have been

though - It's hard to understand why the two people who have been

involved can't!

Sally it must be possible somehow to explain this to your husband -

engage him - I have worked with two couples where the guy's have

actually come onto the boards because their partners were made so ill

by the drugs or coming off them that they could not use the computer

themselves - We got them through - the partners are into recovery and

active on the boards - will he visit this board? Will he speak to

by private @mail? Will he speak to anyone?

Maybe - it would take some pressure off you both!

Take care - hugs Tue x

[Guest guest]

Hi tuesday - thanks for the note. Im sorry i cant write more now but

unfortunately I feel very very disorientated after starting the SJW.

I cant believe im having such a strong reax to it. i did take it

once before when I first had the panic attacks. I was so adamant

that i didnt want to take AD's. I threw away three prescriptions

before i gave in......

Didnt have a problem with it then but maybe my system just cant cope

with it now. Just feel like Ive made yet another mistake and made

things even worse again.

Re. my husband - there is no way he'd look at the boards - he

absoutely hates me looking at them. As do the rest of my family.

They think im wasting my life and making things worse by looking for

answers.

Sallyx

> Hi Sally

>

> I have read our posts and am really sorry that things are still not

> going too well and that you are being put under all this extra

> pressure - but

>

> please take a step back and look at the whole situation -

>

> Before I was put on SSRIs I was diagnosed with depression at a time

> when I was physically and emotionally exhausted - 16 months out of

a

> 9.5 year relationship with a partner who was dominating,

manipulative

> and turned progressively into an absolute bully over the final

3yr's -

> a month after the relationship ended he had assaulted me -

>

> --we were still living in the same house by agreement because my

house

> in another area was rented out and I could not move back there

until

> it was vacant and two of my children were in the middle of their O

and

> A levels exams--

>

> The result of the assault was a knee injury that left me in plaster

> for 11 weeks --surgery after 6 and re-plastered-- and on crutches

for

> over 8 months --last op Dec 04-- This prevented me moving from the

> tied cottage we shared when the children had finished their exams

and

> my home became vacant - After the assault he'd moved out - but

> returned on a daily basis because it was his cottage - tied to his

job

> - on the farm he worked on - he left the dogs with me over night -

> This gave him a reason to come back and the opportunity to carry on

> bullying me -

>

> Within two weeks of the assault he had engaged solicitors to get me

> out of the cottage - so I had to engage legal help - I was now

> dependant on benefits - Because the children did not want to move

> back to where my house was I had put it on the market - I qualified

as

> a single parent to move and still qualify for housing benefit

without

> having to go through the qualifying period again - I told the

benefit

> agency from the start what I was doing and why - When it became

vacant

> they disallowed housing costs on the grounds that I was not living

> their - although it was our main and only home and I was not

claiming

> housing costs for the cottage as it was rent and rate free -

Although

> I had offered to pay my ex's employer rental costs - had refused -

>

> With the help of friends local to where we were living --apx 170

miles

> from my own house-- I had found another house but the benefit

agency

> would not officially tell the building society that housing

benefit

> would be paid until I could resume work - On completion of the sale

3

> months after the assault and 3 weeks out of plaster I was told that

as

> I now had capitol in the bank I no longer qualified for benefits

and

> payments were withdrawn - I started to look for a rented property -

> but was still not driving and most had gone by the time I had been

> sent the details --the cottage was 15 miles nearest estate agent

and

> not on a bus route--

>

> I had lost our home and security - The bullying was still on going -

> along with a smear campaign by my ex about my deliberately staying

in

> the property just to make things difficult for him - putting our

> mutual friends and associates in an awkward and compromised

situation

> - Because of the injury I was seeing my Dr on a 3 weekly basis to

get

> sick notes to send to the benefit agency - He asked me how things

were

> going - I broke down in tears - he judged me to be depressed and

> wanted me to take Lustral - I knew I was just physically and

> emotionally exhausted - I took the script but at that time not the

> tablets - A CPN was engaged and he visited about 4 months after the

> assault and a about a month after loosing my house - I have a copy

of

> his letter to my Dr --I got it from the CPN later-- in it he states

> that I am not depressed although understandably upset and worried

> about my situation - I was keeping house - looking after the

children

> and dealing with everything and that he didn't see the need for

> further visits - I was discharged -

>

> I had been to the council but the only way they would offer me

housing

> was to condemn the cottage --it was horrendously damp-- but that

meant

> contacting my ex's employers - and the council would not give me a

> time scale for moving me - I was concerned about reprisals in the

> intervening period so said I wouldn't let them take action -

Reprisals

> and our inability to move from the cottage and on-farm situation

was

> also the reason I did not take legal action against him - We were

> trapped on private property where to a point we had no rights to

be -

> I didn't push any buttons that would inflame any reaction on myself

or

> the children -

>

> I eventually managed to find a property to rent and moved in the

> January just short of 7 months after the assault and by then with

> eviction court action hanging over my head - and from a safe

distance

> started to try and address the other issues of the split from my ex

> namely the £20 K + of his debts most of which were in my name

because

> of his bad credit rating and that I had settled on the

understanding

> that once I moved he had promised to sort out - I arranged to go

back

> to College in the September because the knee injury would prevent

me

> doing any of the jobs I had previously done - I had moved on and

was

> making a new life for myself - But I wanted the financial debris

> sorted before I started College so I could fully apply myself -

>

> By the summer no progress had been made so when my ex's father

> contacted me I was happy to talk to him --we had always got on

really

> well-- and when he said he would be willing to act as a go between

to

> sort out the matter of the car I was relieved - but he continued to

> say that if I let him have the car back that my ex would let

> everything else go and he wouldn't put a claim in against the house

> and the endowment policy - and after all as he was letting me keep

the

> house I should be grateful - I had apparently twisted my ankle - I

had

> also 'apparently' promised to return the car to my ex once I had

moved

> and he had 'apparently' paid for a substantial repair to my

property -

>

> I was gob smacked - I had paid for the car - I had extended my

> mortgage to pay for the repairs - I had the paperwork to prove it -

> and I settle all the debts -

>

> During the 4 hour long phone call - - I found out the extent of the

> lies he had spread about our relationship - finances - my

indebtedness

> to him - - and - I enlightened him - about the injury - the debts

he'd

> left me with - the loss of my house - the fact that during our

> relationship my ex had not kept us - Never put a penny into the

house

> or even contributing towards the bills when he had stayed there

when

> he was between jobs - That as it had been my matrimonial home --1st

> marriage-- that I had kept instead of taking maintenance for the

> myself and the children - That he had no claim on it - or the

> endowment that insured my 1st husband and my lives - The way he had

> turned his back on the children who had called him Dad - The

bullying

> - and everything else -

>

> We arranged a meeting when he would bring my ex - this was

cancelled

> the following day - My ex --who hadn't known about his fathers

> intervention or offer until he was told about the meeting--

contacted

> me and was furious about what I had said - I was put mentally put

back

> 14 months to the time of the assault - I wasn't depressed - Just

> thrown into all the anxiety and stress which by now my body after

the

> previous few years was just not up to taking -

>

> **

> ------I had always maintained that my original symptoms were 'low

> adrenal reserve / adrenal exhaustion' due to prolonged periods of

> stress (I won't go into this now - but my life has been very

stressful

> going back to early childhood) - I had - after very stressful

events -

> suffered with this since puberty and was sure that the symptom were

> physical not mental -

>

> I also felt that the eventual diagnosis of depression / PND after

my

> second pregnancy resulted from the hormonal changes and trauma of

> childbirth in addition to the stress leading to further demands on

my

> already compromised endocrine system - and my body just not be able

to

> cope - the symptoms were physical the same as before pregnancy but

> worse -

>

> And eventually after finding and the s index and

> charts I was to see how right I was - they were all there in black

and

> white - I had - for about 17 years successfully self treated with

> supplements - diet and on 3 extreme occasions very small

therapeutic

> doses of cortisol taken daily for 6 to 8 weeks -

>

> The 'depression' would only return when in conjunction with

stressful

> periods - funds were tight and I --as mum's do-- dropped the

> supplements because I couldn't afford them ( and bringing up 3

> children on my own it happened a few times) or when I stopped them

> because of ridicule from my partners which always happened at

> stressful periods because of their natures - - And my first

> pregnancy? Well I think on reflection that the only reason I didn't

> get a PND diagnosis that time was because my husband was having an

> affair and left me when my daughter 6 day's old - which resulted in

my

> fight and flight system taking over and kick starting my adrenals

> -----

>

> **

>

> I knew I was heading for trouble - I was nowhere near the private

> clinic I had used on the occasions I had taken the cortisol - I'd

> changed Dr's and he was a new entity I had never seen him only the

> nurse who registered me - But I thought that maybe medical

advancement

> might have enlightened the Dr's to LAR / AE by then so booked an

> appointment - I was offered Lustral on the strength of a 4 min

> consultation and a cursory glance at my notes to see what my last

> script was for - I told him I didn't want them because they had

made

> me feel worst - --The year before I had --when the eviction papers

> arrived just before Xmas and my ex had broken in to the cottage

taking

> things that weren't his-- tried two tablets from the original

script

> from my previous Dr - they had really made me feel weird so I took

on

> more-- - but at that time I couldn't explain - He wouldn't let me

try

> and just told me I hadn't given them a chance to work -

>

> I went home and carried on -

>

> I went back about a two month later by which time I had started

> college --how many depressed people are looking forward to and

start

> new college course planning a new career-- and tried to explain how

I

> felt and what I thought the problem was - He caught me at a

vulnerable

> time - I was physically and mentally exhausted - He was ex army

with a

> Dr's smug arrogance and a Majors patronisation and authority - I

was

> still reeling from the call and revelations a few months before and

> the forced recollection of all that had happened - I was used to

> taking the easy way out and saying yes to avoid arguments -

>

> I was an easy target and he took full advantage - He bullied me -

He

> put the onus back on me by saying 'well - IF you don't WANT to get

> better!!' - and I did, I really did - He wrote in half inch high

> letters across my notes 'SHE NEEDS TO TAKE CONTROL' - and I WAS

trying

> to do just that - and I thought however much I distrust the medical

> profession surely no-one would put a drug on the market that was

> dangerous if taken how and for what it is prescribed! - and I

thought

> IF I complied and it didn't work he would HAVE to listen to me -

>

> I cannot believe how stupid and naive I was - 6 months later I was

> nearly dead -

>

> A year later the same CPN was called in - He now assessed me to be

> within one point of the top of whatever the scale / index is that

they

> use to assess depression - sorry I can't even remember what it's

> called - Apart from the fact that my ex wasn't bullying me and we

were

> now off-farm - I was in exactly the same situation - the only

> difference was my 6 month excursion into La la Lustral land -

>

>

> Sally - I guess what I'm trying to say is don't be bullied into

> something that you don't feel is right for you - or your not

> comfortable with - Trust your instincts - You know how awful the

drugs

> make you feel - You know how hard it has been to get off them -

>

> I cannot believe that your husband (who I'm sure is doing it

because

> he loves and cares for you) and your Dr are issuing ultimatums and

> putting you under so much pressure about this at this time -

> instilling fear - uncertainty - self doubt - Surely they can see -

> understand - appreciate that this and the additional stress it is

> causing will only exacerbate the problem -

>

> I recently wrote this to you -

>

> " When you really think about it the hormonal balance of your body

has

> not had a chance to adjust since you started the IVF - it's

estimated

> that it takes the body about a year to eighteen months get over and

> readjust from a normal pregnancy - by this time the drugs will then

> have stepped in to further disrupt the endocrine system - you

really

> need to give yourself and your body time to get itself sorted out -

> don't be so hard on your self - your doing remarkably well -

>

> And as far as this being the " real " you - I don't think it is -

just

> think back to the " real " you before the drugs even before the IVF -

> what ever symptoms you now have are a result of the drugs and

> hormones you have taken - you weren't depressed - didn't have panic

> attacks - you might have been low and anxious because you wanted a

> family but you certainly didn't have all these symptoms that the

drugs

> have caused - the " real " you is still there and struggling to get

out

> - that's why you are feeling all these emotions - "

>

> What you are going through is normal for your post drug situation

and

> recovery - Maybe they can't see that side - but - over and above

that

> if I can look at the whole picture and understand what you have

been

> though - It's hard to understand why the two people who have been

> involved can't!

>

> Sally it must be possible somehow to explain this to your husband -

> engage him - I have worked with two couples where the guy's have

> actually come onto the boards because their partners were made so

ill

> by the drugs or coming off them that they could not use the

computer

> themselves - We got them through - the partners are into recovery

and

> active on the boards - will he visit this board? Will he speak to

> by private @mail? Will he speak to anyone?

>

> Maybe - it would take some pressure off you both!

>

> Take care - hugs Tue x

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally,

I know everyone is different, but I thought I’d give

you my experience.

I tried St s Wort not long after stopping AD’s and

it didn’t make the slightest dent in my depression.

What worked for me? Time, a little exercise, healthy eating

and fish oil. I can honestly say the only thing to regulate my moods has

been fish oil. It might take longer to “kick in” but I rarely feel

down these days and am much more able to deal with difficult situations.

Just give yourself some time. I know it’s difficult, most of us have been

there, but it really does get easier as time goes by.

Debs

St s Wort - last question everyone

Hi everyone - i had to see my

GP today to get more valium. I really

tried to cover up how I was feeling (even wore

extra make up to cover

up the shadows) but when she said 'you're not

feeling great are you'

I just burst into tears and couldnt stop. Felt

really cross with

myself for being so weak. Anyway Dr

basically said that if I wont

take AD's then she cant help me.

Basically the psychiatrist has advised that I

should take venlafaxine

(!!!) but has told my dr that I've said I dont

want to take it.

She said she wont be able to give me valium

indefinately (although

could give me venlafaxine for ever and a day - but

thats a different

story.)

The anti stuff about SSRI's is all over the papers

here in UK but it

just doesnt seem to make any difference.

Anyway - she did say that it was worth giving St

s Wort a try so

I think thats pobably what I'll do.

I know, catherine, you said that you've been

particularly impressed

with it but I just wanted to ask you and any

others here if they have

heard of any negative problems.

Even though I threw away 3 different prescriptions

for SSRI's before

I finally took them - i feel like i never really

looked into it

enough.

I dont want to make the same mistake again with

anything else.

Thanks everyone

sallyx

To subscribe

to the off-topic list go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

[Guest guest]

Debbie how much fish oil do you take?

-joe

> What worked for me? Time, a little exercise, healthy eating and fish

> oil. I can honestly say the only thing to regulate my moods has

been

> fish oil. It might take longer to " kick in " but I rarely feel down

these

> days and am much more able to deal with difficult situations. Just

give

> yourself some time. I know it's difficult, most of us have been

there,

> but it really does get easier as time goes by.

>

>

>

> Debs

>

>

>

> St s Wort - last question

> everyone

>

>

>

> Hi everyone - i had to see my GP today to get more valium. I

really

> tried to cover up how I was feeling (even wore extra make up to

cover

> up the shadows) but when she said 'you're not feeling great are

you'

> I just burst into tears and couldnt stop. Felt really cross with

> myself for being so weak. Anyway Dr basically said that if I wont

> take AD's then she cant help me.

>

> Basically the psychiatrist has advised that I should take

venlafaxine

> (!!!) but has told my dr that I've said I dont want to take it.

> She said she wont be able to give me valium indefinately (although

> could give me venlafaxine for ever and a day - but thats a

different

> story.)

>

> The anti stuff about SSRI's is all over the papers here in UK but

it

> just doesnt seem to make any difference.

>

> Anyway - she did say that it was worth giving St s Wort a try

so

> I think thats pobably what I'll do.

>

> I know, catherine, you said that you've been particularly impressed

> with it but I just wanted to ask you and any others here if they

have

> heard of any negative problems.

>

> Even though I threw away 3 different prescriptions for SSRI's

before

> I finally took them - i feel like i never really looked into it

> enough.

>

> I dont want to make the same mistake again with anything else.

>

> Thanks everyone

>

> sallyx

>

>

>

>

> To subscribe to the off-topic list go to:

>

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I take 4 1000mg capsules, 2 in the morning and 2 in the

evening.

St s

Wort - last question

> everyone

>

>

>

> Hi everyone - i had to see my GP today to get

more valium. I

really

> tried to cover up how I was feeling (even

wore extra make up to

cover

> up the shadows) but when she said 'you're not

feeling great are

you'

> I just burst into tears and couldnt

stop. Felt really cross with

> myself for being so weak. Anyway Dr

basically said that if I wont

> take AD's then she cant help me.

>

> Basically the psychiatrist has advised that I

should take

venlafaxine

> (!!!) but has told my dr that I've said I

dont want to take it.

> She said she wont be able to give me valium

indefinately (although

> could give me venlafaxine for ever and a day

- but thats a

different

> story.)

>

> The anti stuff about SSRI's is all over the

papers here in UK but

it

> just doesnt seem to make any difference.

>

> Anyway - she did say that it was worth giving

St s Wort a try

so

> I think thats pobably what I'll do.

>

> I know, catherine, you said that you've been

particularly impressed

> with it but I just wanted to ask you and any

others here if they

have

> heard of any negative problems.

>

> Even though I threw away 3 different

prescriptions for SSRI's

before

> I finally took them - i feel like i never

really looked into it

> enough.

>

> I dont want to make the same mistake again

with anything else.

>

> Thanks everyone

>

> sallyx

>

>

>

>

> To subscribe to the off-topic list go to:

>

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally - don't ever worry about how much you write - It's the fact

that you do that's important - The contact and feed back however

insignificant and trivial it seems can help and others to

make suggestions - offer reassurance and support to help you through -

As far as a disoriented head lol I know my head had been disoriented

ever since I started SSRIs let alone since coming off - so I can

really sympathize there -

Could be that the SJW dose is way to high - maybe you are now over

sensitive to anything that is going to effect the serotonergic system

- If you really want to carry on with it maybe cutting the dose

considerably to a really low dose will help - You may well find a tiny

dose will be enough - But if your are still reacting then I would say

it's not right for you at this time -

I am going to try and list what I used to take - be interesting to get

's input too - I started it a long time ago tho' - I was

batting blind as there wasn't a great deal of info and I went more by

gut instinct -literally- and how it made me feel - and a wing and a

prayer if vol's are missing I can't remember - sorry

Basic Daily regime 17 yr's ago -

Mega multi Vit and Mineral tab - 1 x 1 -- largest vol available

Vit C 1000mg SR - 1 x 1

Vit B complex - 1 x 1 -- when stress bad -

Kelp 3 x 2

Calcium 1 x 1 -- not constant - pm -

Zinc - 2 x 2

Vit E oil 400iu(?) - 2 x 2

Evening Primrose oil 1000mg - 2 x 2 -- Uk ladies can get on script

Safflower oil 1000mg - 1 x 1

Beta carotene - 1 x 1

Royal Jelly - 1 x 1

Papaya enzyme 1 x 1 - pm + 1 before meals

At a later date as they became available or I became aware of them and

what they did I added -

Blue-green algea 2 x 2

Ginkgo - 2 x 2

Co Enzyme Q 10 - 1 x 1

Selenium ACE 1 x 1

Magnesium 1 x 1 -- am

At one point I had great results with an amino acid complex taken at

night - it was mail order special offer and I couldn't re-order - By

the time I thought I needed them again I had lost the addy and didn't

have details of contents to try and find equivalent -

Please note --

---- This ISN'T a list of recommendation and NOT posted in any way to

suggest that anyone else takes it up - I have only posted it to show

Sally the supplements I had success with - I'm sure given the products

available now and the extra knowledge and understanding of what each

does that what I took was way out and these days a much more simple

regime would get results - so any comments?? -

Only if you have time and are up to it tho' - slate away - but

be gentle on me - lol I'm not qualified - in fact left school at 14

with only a speech and swimming certificate ----

As far as diet goes I've always listened to my body - as a result I

have never eaten much grain produce because it has always made me feel

uncomfortable - I gave up milk at the age of 7 - and taking sugar when

I was 12 --the result of a relative I lived with liking things so

sweet it cloyed--

I stopped eating aubergine and potatoes when I was about 23 - and

later redistricted tomatoes and peppers --only to find out post SSRIs

that they are all the same 'Solanacea' family (hope that's right) and

related to belladonna-- -

Hard cheese (altho' cooked wasn't so bad) - Beef - Turkey and Pork

(would make me fall asleep ? tryptophan) so gave those up too -

All these sensitivities came on after my 1st pregnancy -

Oh and somewhere along the line I found that salted peanuts made my

lower legs itch like crazy - whether it was the salt or the nuts I

never bothered to worked out - I just cut them out -

Over and beyond this having spent a great deal of my first 20 yrs

abroad I'd naturally adopted a very Mediterranean style diet - salads

every day dressed with olive oil and lemon juice - Greek and bio

yoghurt - moderate protein - low carbs - moderate fruit - vegetables

(no pot's) - out of bread I find that true light french bread gives

less reaction than British bog standard loaves -

--Gm has been happening for a lot longer than people realize - the

older base breeds of wheat and grains had only a few chromosomes -

modern milling wheat has been engineered over decades and is graded on

it's gluten content - the higher the gluten - the high the grade - the

high the price commanded - and probably the higher the percentage of

people having problems eating it - they now have in excess of 50

chromosomes - other factors come into this too but I won't expand

now--

As I said in my previous post I noticed the difference when money was

short and under ridicule from partners - which would effect both my

supplement regime and diet - both in costs and being bullied to eat

properly - which meant what everyone else was eating -

I'm not saying that this would work for everyone - but by listening to

your body and comparing your emotional - physical and mental feelings

/ symptoms / reactions to what you ingest can in some cases pin point

things that you may be sensitive too that will trigger even emotional

reactions - like hyper kids with chocolate and additives adults can be

effected too by different thing in negative ways - whilst others have

a sort of 'a feel good' factor and affect them in positive ways -

I can also look back and can mark a difference in my teens before

supplements when I was abroad - In Africa the bread and basic diet

would consist of locally grown produce, meat, fish and poultry and

local bread made from non commercial flour - No hormonal additives or

pesticides would have been used -

I was also living over looking the sea and swimming daily - So the

exorcise - sunshine - ozone and possibly the daily intake of sea water

/ iodine will have come into play - I never felt physically better

when not taking supplements even though stress levels at that point

would have been very high -

It's such a shame we cannot all live in that sort of environment -

I also noticed as far as the supplements go that when taking them that

my consumption of cigarettes and coffee naturally dwindled - I give

coffee up completely and maybe only smoke 1 or 2 cigs a day - I know

at other times I use both to get me going in the morning or to keep

going when I'm physically down -

The general consensus is that by taking both or either --in the long

run-- it will sap energy levels and cause fatigue rather than helping

it - However on reflection I have never managed to cut out coffee or

cut down on cigarettes at times when not taking supplements -

It's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario - But 'I know' that when I

start going down - loosing energy and momentum that the consumption of

both increase - 'not' the other way round - The analogies of a healthy

child never starving itself and pregnant women craving what they need

comes to mind - but I won't go there either at the moment -

Sally you haven't made another mistake - Don't be so hard on yourself

- This is one hell of a steep learning curve for everyone who has been

affected -

Unfortunately there isn't a rule book or manual --the Pharma Co's

weren't expecting people like us to want off - get off - or want to

stay off - so they never wrote one--

We - all of us - just have to listen to advice from others who have

already travelled this road - or people like who has put all

her skills - expertise and knowledge into helping those like us - Even

then being all individuals and affected in different ways what helps /

suits one will not always help / suit another -

Which is why you might have seen me be really blunt on other boards

with people who say 'take / do this' or 'take / do that' because it

worked for me - my daughter - my next door neighbours sisters auntie -

it's dangerous - especially with drugs but also with some supplements

and herbs -

The key is to use great caution in not only what you do but also how -

If trying new things start with the smallest possible dose of 'what

ever' and work your way up - Hopefully minimising any possible

adverse event or reaction -

All those who have been in this situation and come through it will

have their stories to tell about what worked and what didn't and the

'mistakes' - horror stories and successes to share - Believe me your

not the only one who feels they have made mistakes - I'm sure we all

feel we have at one time or another -

Also maybe the feeling of making mistakes is more to do with how your

mind is working at this stage of recovery - I know early on I used to

suffer with terminal indecision - Which can easily turn every choice

into a mistake - but it does get better

Re Husband and family I'm really sorry that your not getting much

support and that they have such a negative and closed attitude - it

must be tough - I know I've been there and still am to a point

although since I have a letter from Neuro' saying problems have been

caused by SSRIs I have been absolved to a certain extent -

But they still don't quite get the whole picture - All have a

different one and a different stance - But I am now left to my own

devices and my daughters have stopped my son (who still lives at home)

moaning about the amount of time I spend on the putter - We sort of

had a role reversal situation at one point lol

It's a real shame that he will not at least 'humour' you and have a

look at the boards - because it would make such a difference to you

both if he could understand your not the only one who is struggling

with this - the amount of help that is available - and reciprocal

support that goes on -

Bearing his stance on the boards I have a suggestion to make - If you

have any books on SSRIs like Tracey Healy or Breggin leave them open

or put post it markers in at appropriate pages and leave them lying

around - he might take a look - lol I did say might if you

have tried that one - sorry it was only an idea -

Along the same lines but a different track - Books on diet - 'The Food

Doctor' books - eat your way healthy - easy reading and really great

info on diet and indirectly (because it list what you get from what)

supplements - and a little about the effect drugs have and how you can

achieve similar results with diet - They are a series and cover

different aspects of healthy life in each one altho' the info overlaps

- Which you could also work to your advantage - because I doubt many

guy's seeing a book called -- 'In Bed With The Food Doctor' How to eat

your way to better sex and sleep -- with book marks sticking out of it

- wouldn't take a peek when no-one was looking -

But even if he didn't look at the Dr Books - they are good books and

explain a lot about nutrition and supplements and how and why and what

and where they work - a good basic grounding that I think you would

find helpful - Good for a quick reference or if you need a quick

answer about something in this line -

They basically reinforce and back up everything says without

the SSRI issue getting in the way - and you never know other members

of your family might even take an interest - maybe a way to break the

negative cycle of the way they view what your trying to achieve - It

might even take the heat of your board activities by making it appear

your looking at other ways to help yourself and your situation away

from the putter - Doing something positive - real time as it were -

tangible - some people can only relate to things actually on paper -

If I don't reply for a few days it's because I'm off again later

tonight - this has been flying visit home -

so speaks later - Tue x

[Guest guest]

Sally,

How is the St. 's Wort working? I am 7 months off paxil/lexapro

and am sooo depressed. I was thinking of trying it, but am really

nervous about it. But, I am kind of desperate. I feel horrible. So

depressed and miserable. Did it help you find relief?

Thanks and I hope you are doing ok.

nyia

> Hi everyone - i had to see my GP today to get more valium. I

really

> tried to cover up how I was feeling (even wore extra make up to

cover

> up the shadows) but when she said 'you're not feeling great are

you'

> I just burst into tears and couldnt stop. Felt really cross with

> myself for being so weak. Anyway Dr basically said that if I wont

> take AD's then she cant help me.

>

> Basically the psychiatrist has advised that I should take

venlafaxine

> (!!!) but has told my dr that I've said I dont want to take it.

> She said she wont be able to give me valium indefinately (although

> could give me venlafaxine for ever and a day - but thats a

different

> story.)

>

> The anti stuff about SSRI's is all over the papers here in UK but

it

> just doesnt seem to make any difference.

>

> Anyway - she did say that it was worth giving St s Wort a try

so

> I think thats pobably what I'll do.

>

> I know, catherine, you said that you've been particularly

impressed

> with it but I just wanted to ask you and any others here if they

have

> heard of any negative problems.

>

> Even though I threw away 3 different prescriptions for SSRI's

before

> I finally took them - i feel like i never really looked into it

> enough.

>

> I dont want to make the same mistake again with anything else.

>

> Thanks everyone

>

> sallyx

[Guest guest]

Hi Nyia

Im really sorry I cant be more positive but I had a very negative

experience with SJW. Only took it for 10 days. however I was only

off SSRI's for 6 weeks when i started it so will be able to

say if its any better later.

I think from a note she sent earlier though that she doesnt recommend

it.

Sorry I cant be more help. Hope you feel much better soon.

Sallyx

> > Hi everyone - i had to see my GP today to get more valium. I

> really

> > tried to cover up how I was feeling (even wore extra make up to

> cover

> > up the shadows) but when she said 'you're not feeling great are

> you'

> > I just burst into tears and couldnt stop. Felt really cross with

> > myself for being so weak. Anyway Dr basically said that if I

wont

> > take AD's then she cant help me.

> >

> > Basically the psychiatrist has advised that I should take

> venlafaxine

> > (!!!) but has told my dr that I've said I dont want to take it.

> > She said she wont be able to give me valium indefinately

(although

> > could give me venlafaxine for ever and a day - but thats a

> different

> > story.)

> >

> > The anti stuff about SSRI's is all over the papers here in UK but

> it

> > just doesnt seem to make any difference.

> >

> > Anyway - she did say that it was worth giving St s Wort a try

> so

> > I think thats pobably what I'll do.

> >

> > I know, catherine, you said that you've been particularly

> impressed

> > with it but I just wanted to ask you and any others here if they

> have

> > heard of any negative problems.

> >

> > Even though I threw away 3 different prescriptions for SSRI's

> before

> > I finally took them - i feel like i never really looked into it

> > enough.

> >

> > I dont want to make the same mistake again with anything else.

> >

> > Thanks everyone

> >

> > sallyx

[Guest guest]

Thanks for responding Sally. I will keep that in mind. I thought it

might not be good as it is so close to being like an SSRI. I really

don't want to go back on any, even if it is an herb. I was/am just

desperate.

Hang in and thanks again.

nyia

> > > Hi everyone - i had to see my GP today to get more valium. I

> > really

> > > tried to cover up how I was feeling (even wore extra make up

to

> > cover

> > > up the shadows) but when she said 'you're not feeling great

are

> > you'

> > > I just burst into tears and couldnt stop. Felt really cross

with

> > > myself for being so weak. Anyway Dr basically said that if I

> wont

> > > take AD's then she cant help me.

> > >

> > > Basically the psychiatrist has advised that I should take

> > venlafaxine

> > > (!!!) but has told my dr that I've said I dont want to take it.

> > > She said she wont be able to give me valium indefinately

> (although

> > > could give me venlafaxine for ever and a day - but thats a

> > different

> > > story.)

> > >

> > > The anti stuff about SSRI's is all over the papers here in UK

but

> > it

> > > just doesnt seem to make any difference.

> > >

> > > Anyway - she did say that it was worth giving St s Wort a

try

> > so

> > > I think thats pobably what I'll do.

> > >

> > > I know, catherine, you said that you've been particularly

> > impressed

> > > with it but I just wanted to ask you and any others here if

they

> > have

> > > heard of any negative problems.

> > >

> > > Even though I threw away 3 different prescriptions for SSRI's

> > before

> > > I finally took them - i feel like i never really looked into

it

> > > enough.

> > >

> > > I dont want to make the same mistake again with anything else.

> > >

> > > Thanks everyone

> > >

> > > sallyx