Re: HFBP or LFBP -- which is worse?

July 22, 2007

I grew up w/a HFBP and so naturally I think they are the worst.

However, I don't know how I'd feel w/a LFBP nada. I'd probably think

they were the worst. I think they all just suck, suck, suck! But

really, LFBP's seem to be more out of control and so that's a certain

level of chaos I didn't exactly witness growing up- suicide attempts

from nada and drug overdoses or going to jail for shop lifting or

whatever. I had a friend who went through that and I really think

they've had a harder time adapting to life in the real world w/a

nutjob parent. But at least they have validation over and over again

that they genuinely do have a nutjob of a parent vs everyone thinking

they're an ahole for cutting all the strings. I think its easier to

be a KO of a HFBP when you just learn not to give a shit what others

think of you or let them dictate how you are going to feel or what

you're going to do. When you get to that point, perhaps the 'game's

on' point where " it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it

just doesn't matter " then you are more free to go on with life and

just ignore the bps away and know that they've still got a plethora

of other people to use, fool and spit out. Being disposable to a BP

has advantages at times. For the LFBP, you seriously never know if

youre going to get that call that nada killed herself or something,

ya know? And she probably is so low functioning she can't deceive

anyone and just burns out all her resources and you are basically the

only one left as a KO that the mental health experts or police call

when they hit bottom.

I guess then LFBPs are worse when I look at it from where I'm at

today. But a few years ago, I'd have definitely said the HFBP just

for validation purposes. " Crazy is as crazy does. " They're all just

crazy in my book.

K

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am brand new to this board and pretty much

> > brand new to the

> > > > > knowledge of BPD. Lately, through a series of

> > events and

> > > discoveries I

> > > > > have been faced with the knowledge that my

> > mother most probably

> > > may be

> > > > > BPD I have read 'Stop Walking on Eggshells'

> > and found some

> > > confirming

> > > > > information there as well. My mother doesn't

> > present quite as

> > > horribly

> > > > > as some with this problem. People outside of

> > our family think

> > > she is

> > > > > quite wonderful, sweet, etc. However, my

> > mother has never been

> > > my

> > > > > mother, rather, I have been hers. Throughout

> > my childhood, my

> > > mother

> > > > > was given to irrational rages, usually over

> > something as stupid

> > > as(for

> > > > > example) not having cleaned the stove well

> > enough. She would

> > > give me

> > > > > the silent treatment for some infraction, and

> > I would

> > > desperately try

> > > > > to win her affection back. If I had a clumsy

> > moment, she would

> > > say

> > > > > " OH, you're so stupid " .

> > > > >

> > > > > For the past 4 years, after a series of

> > disturbing dreams(I'm 51

> > > years

> > > > > old), I have been working to set boundaries

> > with my Mom. I took

> > > our

> > > > > house key away from her (that was fun...)after

> > she walked in one

> > > day

> > > > > and found my husband starkers. I have been

> > trying to train her to

> > > > > realize that I cannot fix her lonliness for

> > her (my Dad died

> > > over 15

> > > > > yrs. ago). She hates to be alone, and gets

> > quite panic stricken

> > > if I

> > > > > am not available to take her loneliness away.

> > She is a black pit

> > > of

> > > > > need - no attention is enough. If she feels

> > slighted, she acts

> > > out in

> > > > > anger and petulance. I have come to realize

> > that my Mom does not

> > > > > understand that I am a seperate person from

> > her. Her identity is

> > > > > wrapped up in me. And she is very unhappy that

> > I am not playing

> > > the

> > > > > game with her anymore. Truly, the biggest

> > mistake I ever made,

> > > in her

> > > > > eyes, is growing up. She hates my husband,

> > always has, because

> > > he gets

> > > > > in the way of her access to me. She turns it

> > around and vilifies

> > > him

> > > > > to others, saying that he hates her.

> > > > >

> > > > > I could go on and on, but I'm really wanting

> > to know if anyone

> > > out

> > > > > there has a 'high functioning' BP parent and

> > how that affects

> > > your

> > > > > life. Many people will never believe me. They

> > think of my Mom as

> > > very

> > > > > insecure, and that all I need to do is

> > reassure her. I truly

> > > wish that

> > > > > that was all there was to it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am hesitant to 'label' her. This possible

> > diagnosis is second

> > > hand,

> > > > > through a therapist that my husband is seeing.

> > I am curious to

> > > know if

> > > > > anyone else has a parent that presents

> > somewhat like this.

> > > > >

> > > > > I could go on about some of the hurtful scenes

> > from the past,

> > > but I

> > > > > hope that this post will give you a snapshot

> > of what I have been

> > > going

> > > > > through.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > J.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Got a little couch potato?

> Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> http://search.yahoo.com/search?

fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

>

July 23, 2007

yeah, i agree they're both pretty lousy parents to wind up with.

Sometimes I don't know whether to classify my nada as HF or LF.

Yes, she's HF in the sense that she's highly educated and does hold

a job with a lot of responsibility, but over the years she has lost

a job several times and has constant fights at work and with friends

and family. Her eating and sleeping habits are out of control. But

these things have gotten worse with age, and I think she used to

fool people pretty well when I was growing up.

I agree that the most challenging thing about HF is that there is no

validation - everyone woudl tell me growing up how wonderful my

mother was and how much i must want to be like her. Then the doors

would close and the screaming would begin, and I would sit there

berating myself for either (1) being so stupid as to not be able to

see how great she was, and (2) being so bad as to turn such a

wonderful person into a monster. The other bit of her being HF was

that she would always tell me how lucky i was, what a nice house i

had, how great it was that we were so close. All of this really led

to me thinking that I was at best different from everyone else, adn

at worst crazy. I think the only advantage of an LF nada might be

that at least it's easier to see that she is the crazy one.

Sara

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am brand new to this board and pretty much

> > > brand new to the

> > > > > > knowledge of BPD. Lately, through a series of

> > > events and

> > > > discoveries I

> > > > > > have been faced with the knowledge that my

> > > mother most probably

> > > > may be

> > > > > > BPD I have read 'Stop Walking on Eggshells'

> > > and found some

> > > > confirming

> > > > > > information there as well. My mother doesn't

> > > present quite as

> > > > horribly

> > > > > > as some with this problem. People outside of

> > > our family think

> > > > she is

> > > > > > quite wonderful, sweet, etc. However, my

> > > mother has never been

> > > > my

> > > > > > mother, rather, I have been hers. Throughout

> > > my childhood, my

> > > > mother

> > > > > > was given to irrational rages, usually over

> > > something as stupid

> > > > as(for

> > > > > > example) not having cleaned the stove well

> > > enough. She would

> > > > give me

> > > > > > the silent treatment for some infraction, and

> > > I would

> > > > desperately try

> > > > > > to win her affection back. If I had a clumsy

> > > moment, she would

> > > > say

> > > > > > " OH, you're so stupid " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For the past 4 years, after a series of

> > > disturbing dreams(I'm 51

> > > > years

> > > > > > old), I have been working to set boundaries

> > > with my Mom. I took

> > > > our

> > > > > > house key away from her (that was fun...)after

> > > she walked in one

> > > > day

> > > > > > and found my husband starkers. I have been

> > > trying to train her to

> > > > > > realize that I cannot fix her lonliness for

> > > her (my Dad died

> > > > over 15

> > > > > > yrs. ago). She hates to be alone, and gets

> > > quite panic stricken

> > > > if I

> > > > > > am not available to take her loneliness away.

> > > She is a black pit

> > > > of

> > > > > > need - no attention is enough. If she feels

> > > slighted, she acts

> > > > out in

> > > > > > anger and petulance. I have come to realize

> > > that my Mom does not

> > > > > > understand that I am a seperate person from

> > > her. Her identity is

> > > > > > wrapped up in me. And she is very unhappy that

> > > I am not playing

> > > > the

> > > > > > game with her anymore. Truly, the biggest

> > > mistake I ever made,

> > > > in her

> > > > > > eyes, is growing up. She hates my husband,

> > > always has, because

> > > > he gets

> > > > > > in the way of her access to me. She turns it

> > > around and vilifies

> > > > him

> > > > > > to others, saying that he hates her.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I could go on and on, but I'm really wanting

> > > to know if anyone

> > > > out

> > > > > > there has a 'high functioning' BP parent and

> > > how that affects

> > > > your

> > > > > > life. Many people will never believe me. They

> > > think of my Mom as

> > > > very

> > > > > > insecure, and that all I need to do is

> > > reassure her. I truly

> > > > wish that

> > > > > > that was all there was to it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am hesitant to 'label' her. This possible

> > > diagnosis is second

> > > > hand,

> > > > > > through a therapist that my husband is seeing.

> > > I am curious to

> > > > know if

> > > > > > anyone else has a parent that presents

> > > somewhat like this.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I could go on about some of the hurtful scenes

> > > from the past,

> > > > but I

> > > > > > hope that this post will give you a snapshot

> > > of what I have been

> > > > going

> > > > > > through.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > J.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_

> ______________

> > Got a little couch potato?

> > Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> > http://search.yahoo.com/search?

> fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

> >

>

July 23, 2007

I grew up with a high-functioning Hermit/Waif. I won't say it's

worse than being told daily that you are the bad seed (somtimes

brother got to be the evil one)and getting physically abused.

But the mental abuse I suffered at the lips of my Nada is nothing to

sneeze at. She screwed me up in deep, dark places that are still

popping up and amazing me. I just realized this week that I do not

have a favorite ANYTHING, that she scoffed at people who had any

toys, books, movies, etc. that brought them comfort. I grew up

without comfort from anywhere but my dad. Thank God for my gentle,

loving father. He is truly my saving grace. And thank God for his

Catholicism that kept him in the home despite my Nada.

HFBPs are definitely decepitive, as you say. And they are the ones

that very few people notice are not normal. They pass easily as a

sane person, leaving their kids to look like they are complaining

about a whole bunch of nothing.

I always found it difficult to describe the world I lived in and why

I don't like to stay home all day, sit in a dark room, or stay

alone. Or why it was always so hard for me to bring a friend home.

It's because, raised by a hermit, all she would do is keep us at

home, in a house with dark carpet, dark drapes, dark furniture - all

very nice and normal, but stifiling. I wanted to be at my friends'

houses as much as possible.

You can bet my house has open shutters and windows and the kids play

outside! I want to be outside, in the sun, with people. I want to

let my kids have a million friends (who I won't critique to the inth

degree)and do all the things a normal kid should be able to do.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am brand new to this board and pretty much

> > brand new to the

> > > > > knowledge of BPD. Lately, through a series of

> > events and

> > > discoveries I

> > > > > have been faced with the knowledge that my

> > mother most probably

> > > may be

> > > > > BPD I have read 'Stop Walking on Eggshells'

> > and found some

> > > confirming

> > > > > information there as well. My mother doesn't

> > present quite as

> > > horribly

> > > > > as some with this problem. People outside of

> > our family think

> > > she is

> > > > > quite wonderful, sweet, etc. However, my

> > mother has never been

> > > my

> > > > > mother, rather, I have been hers. Throughout

> > my childhood, my

> > > mother

> > > > > was given to irrational rages, usually over

> > something as stupid

> > > as(for

> > > > > example) not having cleaned the stove well

> > enough. She would

> > > give me

> > > > > the silent treatment for some infraction, and

> > I would

> > > desperately try

> > > > > to win her affection back. If I had a clumsy

> > moment, she would

> > > say

> > > > > " OH, you're so stupid " .

> > > > >

> > > > > For the past 4 years, after a series of

> > disturbing dreams(I'm 51

> > > years

> > > > > old), I have been working to set boundaries

> > with my Mom. I took

> > > our

> > > > > house key away from her (that was fun...)after

> > she walked in one

> > > day

> > > > > and found my husband starkers. I have been

> > trying to train her to

> > > > > realize that I cannot fix her lonliness for

> > her (my Dad died

> > > over 15

> > > > > yrs. ago). She hates to be alone, and gets

> > quite panic stricken

> > > if I

> > > > > am not available to take her loneliness away.

> > She is a black pit

> > > of

> > > > > need - no attention is enough. If she feels

> > slighted, she acts

> > > out in

> > > > > anger and petulance. I have come to realize

> > that my Mom does not

> > > > > understand that I am a seperate person from

> > her. Her identity is

> > > > > wrapped up in me. And she is very unhappy that

> > I am not playing

> > > the

> > > > > game with her anymore. Truly, the biggest

> > mistake I ever made,

> > > in her

> > > > > eyes, is growing up. She hates my husband,

> > always has, because

> > > he gets

> > > > > in the way of her access to me. She turns it

> > around and vilifies

> > > him

> > > > > to others, saying that he hates her.

> > > > >

> > > > > I could go on and on, but I'm really wanting

> > to know if anyone

> > > out

> > > > > there has a 'high functioning' BP parent and

> > how that affects

> > > your

> > > > > life. Many people will never believe me. They

> > think of my Mom as

> > > very

> > > > > insecure, and that all I need to do is

> > reassure her. I truly

> > > wish that

> > > > > that was all there was to it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am hesitant to 'label' her. This possible

> > diagnosis is second

> > > hand,

> > > > > through a therapist that my husband is seeing.

> > I am curious to

> > > know if

> > > > > anyone else has a parent that presents

> > somewhat like this.

> > > > >

> > > > > I could go on about some of the hurtful scenes

> > from the past,

> > > but I

> > > > > hope that this post will give you a snapshot

> > of what I have been

> > > going

> > > > > through.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > J.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Got a little couch potato?

> Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> http://search.yahoo.com/search?

fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

>

July 23, 2007

Its funny how similar and yet different our disrespective bp parents

can be. Mine wasn't a hermit, but a queen socialite and so unlike

growing up in the shadows of a hermit, I really like being at home a

lot though I'm an extrovert and do indeed like people and like my

kids to have friends as well...play dates. Only I make sure now days

not to spread myself too thin like I use to do and then be upset w/my

family which was nada big time. I tend to limit certain outside

activities as my oldest child is an introvert and gets played out

easily enough and loves coming home. Both of them get excited when

we've had a big day and we start down our road towards home. I can't

explain how happy it makes my heart...that they truly love being at

home and its a safe haven of comfort and a place to recharge their

batteries vs a place to escape. I use to hate coming home even at

their preschool and toddler ages....always a sense of dread and

sickness about it- very green. Not dark, but green was the color of

the carpet and the spirit of my FOO at this age of my development as

a child. Our house now is very bright w/lots of sunlight and I'm sure

that helps my kids though we haven't been able to play outside much

this past month since my oldest has had to use this medication for

his eyes and the sunlight really hurts him. Hopefully by the August

it will have all finally worn off and he'll be back to 'can we go to

the playground?' again.

Both of my kids have recently adopted favorite stuffed animals to

sleep with at night too- same stuffed animal only one's biggger than

the other, but they definitely are allowed to have favorite toys that

they don't have to share. They do have to share a lot of stuff, but

certain things they shouldn't have to like their eating utensils (the

younger one will try to swipe older brother's fork or sippy cup- ugh)

and some favorite toys or books they like. I actually find myself

getting irritated w/the little one for wanting to encroach so much on

my oldest son at times b/c he wants to do and have everything big

brother does. But I also know this is a younger sibling thing and

really, my boys get along really great- so much better than I think

me and my brother ever did at this age as we weren't encouraged to

very much. Actually my oldest is very protective of the little one

and sometimes when Daddy or I start tickling the little one or

something annoying, big brother will yell at us 'no! stop it!' and

not b/c he's jealous as much as he's protective of his younger

sibling and I really do love that and encourage it. My nada NEVER

encouraged us to be close. Instead she'd always try to come in

between us and be jealous. I know there will come a day when they

won't look to me as much for guidance nor confide in me as much, but

as long as they've got each other I know they'll be okay. Even now

nada tries so hard to mess w/me and my younger brother's relationship

and it really pisses me off more than I can say in words even.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am brand new to this board and pretty much

> > > brand new to the

> > > > > > knowledge of BPD. Lately, through a series of

> > > events and

> > > > discoveries I

> > > > > > have been faced with the knowledge that my

> > > mother most probably

> > > > may be

> > > > > > BPD I have read 'Stop Walking on Eggshells'

> > > and found some

> > > > confirming

> > > > > > information there as well. My mother doesn't

> > > present quite as

> > > > horribly

> > > > > > as some with this problem. People outside of

> > > our family think

> > > > she is

> > > > > > quite wonderful, sweet, etc. However, my

> > > mother has never been

> > > > my

> > > > > > mother, rather, I have been hers. Throughout

> > > my childhood, my

> > > > mother

> > > > > > was given to irrational rages, usually over

> > > something as stupid

> > > > as(for

> > > > > > example) not having cleaned the stove well

> > > enough. She would

> > > > give me

> > > > > > the silent treatment for some infraction, and

> > > I would

> > > > desperately try

> > > > > > to win her affection back. If I had a clumsy

> > > moment, she would

> > > > say

> > > > > > " OH, you're so stupid " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For the past 4 years, after a series of

> > > disturbing dreams(I'm 51

> > > > years

> > > > > > old), I have been working to set boundaries

> > > with my Mom. I took

> > > > our

> > > > > > house key away from her (that was fun...)after

> > > she walked in one

> > > > day

> > > > > > and found my husband starkers. I have been

> > > trying to train her to

> > > > > > realize that I cannot fix her lonliness for

> > > her (my Dad died

> > > > over 15

> > > > > > yrs. ago). She hates to be alone, and gets

> > > quite panic stricken

> > > > if I

> > > > > > am not available to take her loneliness away.

> > > She is a black pit

> > > > of

> > > > > > need - no attention is enough. If she feels

> > > slighted, she acts

> > > > out in

> > > > > > anger and petulance. I have come to realize

> > > that my Mom does not

> > > > > > understand that I am a seperate person from

> > > her. Her identity is

> > > > > > wrapped up in me. And she is very unhappy that

> > > I am not playing

> > > > the

> > > > > > game with her anymore. Truly, the biggest

> > > mistake I ever made,

> > > > in her

> > > > > > eyes, is growing up. She hates my husband,

> > > always has, because

> > > > he gets

> > > > > > in the way of her access to me. She turns it

> > > around and vilifies

> > > > him

> > > > > > to others, saying that he hates her.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I could go on and on, but I'm really wanting

> > > to know if anyone

> > > > out

> > > > > > there has a 'high functioning' BP parent and

> > > how that affects

> > > > your

> > > > > > life. Many people will never believe me. They

> > > think of my Mom as

> > > > very

> > > > > > insecure, and that all I need to do is

> > > reassure her. I truly

> > > > wish that

> > > > > > that was all there was to it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am hesitant to 'label' her. This possible

> > > diagnosis is second

> > > > hand,

> > > > > > through a therapist that my husband is seeing.

> > > I am curious to

> > > > know if

> > > > > > anyone else has a parent that presents

> > > somewhat like this.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I could go on about some of the hurtful scenes

> > > from the past,

> > > > but I

> > > > > > hope that this post will give you a snapshot

> > > of what I have been

> > > > going

> > > > > > through.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > J.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> ______________

> > Got a little couch potato?

> > Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> > http://search.yahoo.com/search?

> fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

> >

>

July 23, 2007

(2) being so bad as to turn such a

> wonderful person into a monster.

Sara,

This line really resonates with me. Thanks for articulating it so

well...feelings I've probably had all my life but never really put to

words. I know I felt like that from my step-dad growing up as she was

the perpetual victim and if I wasn't involved then they could have a

very happy marriage or something. Ironically enough when I moved away

to college they got divorced as she turned her rage big time onto him

then. It was a form of validation I suppose, but in the end, its hard

to undo these underlying paradigms like these feelings of guilt or

being bad for turning someone 'so good' against you. Intellectually

its easy now days for me to grasp that she's just a nutjob, but deep

down there are emotional places that do take a lifetime of work to

heal and to challenge from these insane paradigms.

I think that's the overwhelming reason why I can't have much to do

w/nada or her FOO. There's so much damage inside that I see now since

becoming married and a parent especially. I just love my kids too

much to expose them to the psychological radiation they give off that

most assuredly burns the soul to its very core. My job is to protect

them and to prepare them for a world where I can't protect them but

show them how to dust themselves off and get back in the game. I

never ever got how nada could keep exposing us as children to her

parents when they triggered her so badly. It was pure obligation and

I really wish she loved us as much as she was addicted to her sick

relationship w/her parents but if that were to happen, then she

wouldn't be sick, huh? She'd be a normal protective mother who cares

more about her children than anything else...and well that's not my

story from childhood. Hopefully it will be my children's though.

Thanks for articulating this truth so poignantly:)

Kerrie

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hello,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am brand new to this board and pretty much

> > > > brand new to the

> > > > > > > knowledge of BPD. Lately, through a series of

> > > > events and

> > > > > discoveries I

> > > > > > > have been faced with the knowledge that my

> > > > mother most probably

> > > > > may be

> > > > > > > BPD I have read 'Stop Walking on Eggshells'

> > > > and found some

> > > > > confirming

> > > > > > > information there as well. My mother doesn't

> > > > present quite as

> > > > > horribly

> > > > > > > as some with this problem. People outside of

> > > > our family think

> > > > > she is

> > > > > > > quite wonderful, sweet, etc. However, my

> > > > mother has never been

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > mother, rather, I have been hers. Throughout

> > > > my childhood, my

> > > > > mother

> > > > > > > was given to irrational rages, usually over

> > > > something as stupid

> > > > > as(for

> > > > > > > example) not having cleaned the stove well

> > > > enough. She would

> > > > > give me

> > > > > > > the silent treatment for some infraction, and

> > > > I would

> > > > > desperately try

> > > > > > > to win her affection back. If I had a clumsy

> > > > moment, she would

> > > > > say

> > > > > > > " OH, you're so stupid " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For the past 4 years, after a series of

> > > > disturbing dreams(I'm 51

> > > > > years

> > > > > > > old), I have been working to set boundaries

> > > > with my Mom. I took

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > house key away from her (that was fun...)after

> > > > she walked in one

> > > > > day

> > > > > > > and found my husband starkers. I have been

> > > > trying to train her to

> > > > > > > realize that I cannot fix her lonliness for

> > > > her (my Dad died

> > > > > over 15

> > > > > > > yrs. ago). She hates to be alone, and gets

> > > > quite panic stricken

> > > > > if I

> > > > > > > am not available to take her loneliness away.

> > > > She is a black pit

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > need - no attention is enough. If she feels

> > > > slighted, she acts

> > > > > out in

> > > > > > > anger and petulance. I have come to realize

> > > > that my Mom does not

> > > > > > > understand that I am a seperate person from

> > > > her. Her identity is

> > > > > > > wrapped up in me. And she is very unhappy that

> > > > I am not playing

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > game with her anymore. Truly, the biggest

> > > > mistake I ever made,

> > > > > in her

> > > > > > > eyes, is growing up. She hates my husband,

> > > > always has, because

> > > > > he gets

> > > > > > > in the way of her access to me. She turns it

> > > > around and vilifies

> > > > > him

> > > > > > > to others, saying that he hates her.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I could go on and on, but I'm really wanting

> > > > to know if anyone

> > > > > out

> > > > > > > there has a 'high functioning' BP parent and

> > > > how that affects

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > life. Many people will never believe me. They

> > > > think of my Mom as

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > insecure, and that all I need to do is

> > > > reassure her. I truly

> > > > > wish that

> > > > > > > that was all there was to it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am hesitant to 'label' her. This possible

> > > > diagnosis is second

> > > > > hand,

> > > > > > > through a therapist that my husband is seeing.

> > > > I am curious to

> > > > > know if

> > > > > > > anyone else has a parent that presents

> > > > somewhat like this.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I could go on about some of the hurtful scenes

> > > > from the past,

> > > > > but I

> > > > > > > hope that this post will give you a snapshot

> > > > of what I have been

> > > > > going

> > > > > > > through.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > J.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

_____________________________________________________________________

> _

> > ______________

> > > Got a little couch potato?

> > > Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> > > http://search.yahoo.com/search?

> > fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

> > >

> >

>

July 23, 2007

thanks from me, too, for stating this. I had another conversation

with my daughter this morning via telephone about why I don't want

her having contact with my nada. I haven't been able to use the

word " ever " with her yet, although that is certainly my intention

now. Or my hope, as she is 14. I hate to resort to giving her more

portions of my life story. She doesn't ever seem to really get it.

I think she is still stuck in FOG-land. But I have to protect her

from further harm now that I truly understand the damage that has

been done already. Not just to me but to her.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hello,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am brand new to this board and pretty much

> > > > > brand new to the

> > > > > > > > knowledge of BPD. Lately, through a series of

> > > > > events and

> > > > > > discoveries I

> > > > > > > > have been faced with the knowledge that my

> > > > > mother most probably

> > > > > > may be

> > > > > > > > BPD I have read 'Stop Walking on Eggshells'

> > > > > and found some

> > > > > > confirming

> > > > > > > > information there as well. My mother doesn't

> > > > > present quite as

> > > > > > horribly

> > > > > > > > as some with this problem. People outside of

> > > > > our family think

> > > > > > she is

> > > > > > > > quite wonderful, sweet, etc. However, my

> > > > > mother has never been

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > mother, rather, I have been hers. Throughout

> > > > > my childhood, my

> > > > > > mother

> > > > > > > > was given to irrational rages, usually over

> > > > > something as stupid

> > > > > > as(for

> > > > > > > > example) not having cleaned the stove well

> > > > > enough. She would

> > > > > > give me

> > > > > > > > the silent treatment for some infraction, and

> > > > > I would

> > > > > > desperately try

> > > > > > > > to win her affection back. If I had a clumsy

> > > > > moment, she would

> > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > " OH, you're so stupid " .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For the past 4 years, after a series of

> > > > > disturbing dreams(I'm 51

> > > > > > years

> > > > > > > > old), I have been working to set boundaries

> > > > > with my Mom. I took

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > house key away from her (that was fun...)after

> > > > > she walked in one

> > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > and found my husband starkers. I have been

> > > > > trying to train her to

> > > > > > > > realize that I cannot fix her lonliness for

> > > > > her (my Dad died

> > > > > > over 15

> > > > > > > > yrs. ago). She hates to be alone, and gets

> > > > > quite panic stricken

> > > > > > if I

> > > > > > > > am not available to take her loneliness away.

> > > > > She is a black pit

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > need - no attention is enough. If she feels

> > > > > slighted, she acts

> > > > > > out in

> > > > > > > > anger and petulance. I have come to realize

> > > > > that my Mom does not

> > > > > > > > understand that I am a seperate person from

> > > > > her. Her identity is

> > > > > > > > wrapped up in me. And she is very unhappy that

> > > > > I am not playing

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > game with her anymore. Truly, the biggest

> > > > > mistake I ever made,

> > > > > > in her

> > > > > > > > eyes, is growing up. She hates my husband,

> > > > > always has, because

> > > > > > he gets

> > > > > > > > in the way of her access to me. She turns it

> > > > > around and vilifies

> > > > > > him

> > > > > > > > to others, saying that he hates her.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I could go on and on, but I'm really wanting

> > > > > to know if anyone

> > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > there has a 'high functioning' BP parent and

> > > > > how that affects

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > life. Many people will never believe me. They

> > > > > think of my Mom as

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > insecure, and that all I need to do is

> > > > > reassure her. I truly

> > > > > > wish that

> > > > > > > > that was all there was to it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am hesitant to 'label' her. This possible

> > > > > diagnosis is second

> > > > > > hand,

> > > > > > > > through a therapist that my husband is seeing.

> > > > > I am curious to

> > > > > > know if

> > > > > > > > anyone else has a parent that presents

> > > > > somewhat like this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I could go on about some of the hurtful scenes

> > > > > from the past,

> > > > > > but I

> > > > > > > > hope that this post will give you a snapshot

> > > > > of what I have been

> > > > > > going

> > > > > > > > through.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > J.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

_____________________________________________________________________

> > _

> > > ______________

> > > > Got a little couch potato?

> > > > Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> > > > http://search.yahoo.com/search?

> > > fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

July 23, 2007

Hi Kerrie,

I really liked what you wrote. I feel too that now as a wife and a

mother, I cannot ever expose my family to my parents because it is

just so sick. And I realize more and more how badly my grandmother

must have triggered my mother. I have a memory where I and a

friend as little girls had gone to stay with my grandmother. We were

6, and we stayed there for a week. We shared a bedroom and a

bathroom on the opposite side of the house from my grandmother's

room. On the first day, we noticed that the shower leaked. I

believe we even told my grandmother about this. And i distinctly

remember feeling anxious about it. So after we were home, I heard

my grandmotehr on the phone telling my mother what terrible little

girls we were and how she was going to have to pay to repair the

water damage. It just struck me - 24 years later, this week - how

odd that was. Who on earth expects two six-year-olds to take care

of their plumbing problems? Who leaves two six-year-olds with their

own bathroom for a week without even looking in to check it? But my

grandmother (who I now suspect was NPD) got more out of blaming us

than of avoiding the problem in the first place. This is what my

mother must have had to deal with her entire life, and she kept

putting herself and her entire family at the mercy of these

narcissistic behaviors (which then triggered her own BPD tantrums).

Shudder.

Sara

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hello,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am brand new to this board and pretty much

> > > > > brand new to the

> > > > > > > > knowledge of BPD. Lately, through a series of

> > > > > events and

> > > > > > discoveries I

> > > > > > > > have been faced with the knowledge that my

> > > > > mother most probably

> > > > > > may be

> > > > > > > > BPD I have read 'Stop Walking on Eggshells'

> > > > > and found some

> > > > > > confirming

> > > > > > > > information there as well. My mother doesn't

> > > > > present quite as

> > > > > > horribly

> > > > > > > > as some with this problem. People outside of

> > > > > our family think

> > > > > > she is

> > > > > > > > quite wonderful, sweet, etc. However, my

> > > > > mother has never been

> > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > mother, rather, I have been hers. Throughout

> > > > > my childhood, my

> > > > > > mother

> > > > > > > > was given to irrational rages, usually over

> > > > > something as stupid

> > > > > > as(for

> > > > > > > > example) not having cleaned the stove well

> > > > > enough. She would

> > > > > > give me

> > > > > > > > the silent treatment for some infraction, and

> > > > > I would

> > > > > > desperately try

> > > > > > > > to win her affection back. If I had a clumsy

> > > > > moment, she would

> > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > " OH, you're so stupid " .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For the past 4 years, after a series of

> > > > > disturbing dreams(I'm 51

> > > > > > years

> > > > > > > > old), I have been working to set boundaries

> > > > > with my Mom. I took

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > house key away from her (that was fun...)after

> > > > > she walked in one

> > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > and found my husband starkers. I have been

> > > > > trying to train her to

> > > > > > > > realize that I cannot fix her lonliness for

> > > > > her (my Dad died

> > > > > > over 15

> > > > > > > > yrs. ago). She hates to be alone, and gets

> > > > > quite panic stricken

> > > > > > if I

> > > > > > > > am not available to take her loneliness away.

> > > > > She is a black pit

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > need - no attention is enough. If she feels

> > > > > slighted, she acts

> > > > > > out in

> > > > > > > > anger and petulance. I have come to realize

> > > > > that my Mom does not

> > > > > > > > understand that I am a seperate person from

> > > > > her. Her identity is

> > > > > > > > wrapped up in me. And she is very unhappy that

> > > > > I am not playing

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > game with her anymore. Truly, the biggest

> > > > > mistake I ever made,

> > > > > > in her

> > > > > > > > eyes, is growing up. She hates my husband,

> > > > > always has, because

> > > > > > he gets

> > > > > > > > in the way of her access to me. She turns it

> > > > > around and vilifies

> > > > > > him

> > > > > > > > to others, saying that he hates her.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I could go on and on, but I'm really wanting

> > > > > to know if anyone

> > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > there has a 'high functioning' BP parent and

> > > > > how that affects

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > life. Many people will never believe me. They

> > > > > think of my Mom as

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > insecure, and that all I need to do is

> > > > > reassure her. I truly

> > > > > > wish that

> > > > > > > > that was all there was to it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I am hesitant to 'label' her. This possible

> > > > > diagnosis is second

> > > > > > hand,

> > > > > > > > through a therapist that my husband is seeing.

> > > > > I am curious to

> > > > > > know if

> > > > > > > > anyone else has a parent that presents

> > > > > somewhat like this.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I could go on about some of the hurtful scenes

> > > > > from the past,

> > > > > > but I

> > > > > > > > hope that this post will give you a snapshot

> > > > > of what I have been

> > > > > > going

> > > > > > > > through.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > J.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

_____________________________________________________________________

> > _

> > > ______________

> > > > Got a little couch potato?

> > > > Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> > > > http://search.yahoo.com/search?

> > > fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

July 24, 2007

Sara,

That does sound so NPD to blame a six year old for plumbing problems

that already pre-existed. My grandnada on my dad's side was horrible

to my cousins like that- just really mean though for some reason I

was the all good grandkid and got spared the worse of the abuse and

she was still better to the grandkids than she ever was towards her

own kids which is just pathetically sad. But my brother really hates

her- like he doesn't hate much, but when you bring her up he just

cringes and then another cousin wanted to visit once w/her new

husband and just couldn't. Had to drive past the house and go down

the road and cry b/c of all the horrible memories.

I think for me, my mom's side of the family had a better reputation

in the small town and so I was basically a pawn between the

grandnadas. Dad's nada, the one I mention above, was super nice to me

in order to upstage my other grandnada at church...and really I'm not

sure if my other grandnada was really a bp as much as having serious

inclinations and same w/her dh- grandfada though he strikes me more

like a bp than she does w/how he's always been worse about picking

favorites. But in so far as my mom/nada goes, they were super

critical of her all the time growing up. Nothing was ever good enough

and my grandfather would go off on rage tangents to her quite

frequently before I was born and then later on when we moved away. I

never liked him as much as my grandmother and actually nada's mom was

the only one that was remotely nurturing besides my aunt but she was

still so freaking weird...they all were. Small towns can be freaky

and its hard for me to find peopel in that small town that don't have

a lot of neurotic tendencies.

But I know what you mean w/freaky childhood memories. I've only

recently pieced together why I was the favored nation grandchild for

one grandnada- politics. ugh! She still scared the crap out of me

though. She doesn't much anymore and I tend to tell her she's being

ugly when she is and then get off the phone w/her quickly, but I

think I'm basically only one of two cousins who tells her like it is.

Everyone else is petrified of her and I really don't blame them.

She's conditioned it as such kind of like I'm still petrified of my

nada as she's so unpredictable to me.

I'm glad you too are writing a new family legacy. Best wishes to you

and yours.

Kerrie

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hello,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am brand new to this board and pretty much

> > > > > > brand new to the

> > > > > > > > > knowledge of BPD. Lately, through a series of

> > > > > > events and

> > > > > > > discoveries I

> > > > > > > > > have been faced with the knowledge that my

> > > > > > mother most probably

> > > > > > > may be

> > > > > > > > > BPD I have read 'Stop Walking on Eggshells'

> > > > > > and found some

> > > > > > > confirming

> > > > > > > > > information there as well. My mother doesn't

> > > > > > present quite as

> > > > > > > horribly

> > > > > > > > > as some with this problem. People outside of

> > > > > > our family think

> > > > > > > she is

> > > > > > > > > quite wonderful, sweet, etc. However, my

> > > > > > mother has never been

> > > > > > > my

> > > > > > > > > mother, rather, I have been hers. Throughout

> > > > > > my childhood, my

> > > > > > > mother

> > > > > > > > > was given to irrational rages, usually over

> > > > > > something as stupid

> > > > > > > as(for

> > > > > > > > > example) not having cleaned the stove well

> > > > > > enough. She would

> > > > > > > give me

> > > > > > > > > the silent treatment for some infraction, and

> > > > > > I would

> > > > > > > desperately try

> > > > > > > > > to win her affection back. If I had a clumsy

> > > > > > moment, she would

> > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > " OH, you're so stupid " .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > For the past 4 years, after a series of

> > > > > > disturbing dreams(I'm 51

> > > > > > > years

> > > > > > > > > old), I have been working to set boundaries

> > > > > > with my Mom. I took

> > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > house key away from her (that was fun...)after

> > > > > > she walked in one

> > > > > > > day

> > > > > > > > > and found my husband starkers. I have been

> > > > > > trying to train her to

> > > > > > > > > realize that I cannot fix her lonliness for

> > > > > > her (my Dad died

> > > > > > > over 15

> > > > > > > > > yrs. ago). She hates to be alone, and gets

> > > > > > quite panic stricken

> > > > > > > if I

> > > > > > > > > am not available to take her loneliness away.

> > > > > > She is a black pit

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > need - no attention is enough. If she feels

> > > > > > slighted, she acts

> > > > > > > out in

> > > > > > > > > anger and petulance. I have come to realize

> > > > > > that my Mom does not

> > > > > > > > > understand that I am a seperate person from

> > > > > > her. Her identity is

> > > > > > > > > wrapped up in me. And she is very unhappy that

> > > > > > I am not playing

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > game with her anymore. Truly, the biggest

> > > > > > mistake I ever made,

> > > > > > > in her

> > > > > > > > > eyes, is growing up. She hates my husband,

> > > > > > always has, because

> > > > > > > he gets

> > > > > > > > > in the way of her access to me. She turns it

> > > > > > around and vilifies

> > > > > > > him

> > > > > > > > > to others, saying that he hates her.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I could go on and on, but I'm really wanting

> > > > > > to know if anyone

> > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > there has a 'high functioning' BP parent and

> > > > > > how that affects

> > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > life. Many people will never believe me. They

> > > > > > think of my Mom as

> > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > insecure, and that all I need to do is

> > > > > > reassure her. I truly

> > > > > > > wish that

> > > > > > > > > that was all there was to it.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am hesitant to 'label' her. This possible

> > > > > > diagnosis is second

> > > > > > > hand,

> > > > > > > > > through a therapist that my husband is seeing.

> > > > > > I am curious to

> > > > > > > know if

> > > > > > > > > anyone else has a parent that presents

> > > > > > somewhat like this.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I could go on about some of the hurtful scenes

> > > > > > from the past,

> > > > > > > but I

> > > > > > > > > hope that this post will give you a snapshot

> > > > > > of what I have been

> > > > > > > going

> > > > > > > > > through.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > > > J.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

_____________________________________________________________________

> > > _

> > > > ______________

> > > > > Got a little couch potato?

> > > > > Check out fun summer activities for kids.

> > > > > http://search.yahoo.com/search?

> > > > fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

July 24, 2007

Hi everyone,

I took a slight WTO vacation last week but here I am again. Also preparing

for my big out-of-state move so not checking the list as carefully as I might

like!

Does anyone else feel they had a nada who went from high-functioning to

low-functioning and back again? I can think of several times where my mother

truly seemed to lose it -- enough that those around here at work and other

places also noticed it. I believe that the last time cost her her job, although

she has never said why she retired/got fired/who can ever tell the truth?

is

---------------------------------

Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and

lay it on us.

July 24, 2007

When my aunt was in the hospital and then died (cancer, diagnosed many

years prior), my nada lost it.

She first called me to say aunt was in hospital, would be dead any day

now, and told me to send a card. I said I probably wouldn't send a

card. (she was only married to my uncle a couple of years and we were

not close) Then my nada went into detail about the card. " DON'T send

a get well card, cause she is DYING. She will NOT get well. " " Send a

card that says I'm thinking of you. Sorry you're sick. " On and on.

So I just said okay, knowing I wouldn't send one. She seemed so

focused on ME sending a card, as if focusing on that, MAKING me do

that, would somehow alleviate her anxiety.

Then aunt died. So nada went to the store and bought a ham and some

other food. Called uncle and said " would you like company? " and he

said no. (He was not alone anyway; he was with his wife's kids, who

were mostly grown but a few still lived with him.)

So she tells me how he said no and she doesn't care cause she has this

ham and she wants to bring it over and she is mad that he didn't call

my father sooner when his wife got sick. I say well that's just how

my uncle is dealing. And if he wants to be alone, leave him alone.

So she goes over anyway and calls me to say, " I don't care if it made

him feel better or not. It made ME feel better. "

This was a couple months before I went NC, and I remember thinking,

" WOW. That is really messed up. "

So she got into this panic, and seemed to feel it could be relived

only by forcing me to send a card and shoving a ham down my uncle's

throat.

I'm sure many of you could outdo me with a crazy story, but this is a

HF breakdown for sure!

-Deanna

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I took a slight WTO vacation last week but here I am again. Also

preparing for my big out-of-state move so not checking the list as

carefully as I might like!

>

> Does anyone else feel they had a nada who went from

high-functioning to low-functioning and back again? I can think of

several times where my mother truly seemed to lose it -- enough that

those around here at work and other places also noticed it. I believe

that the last time cost her her job, although she has never said why

she retired/got fired/who can ever tell the truth?

>

> is

>

> ---------------------------------

> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s

user panel and lay it on us.

>

July 24, 2007

Hi is -

Yes, I have noticed the same with my mother. She lost her job a few

years ago. She of course made it out to be a big conspiracy against

her because of her gender, but I suspect that she just wasn't

holding it together in her interactions with her colleagues. They

threatened to fire her if she didn't finish a project...then guess

what, she simply refused to do it and after giving her three year-

long extensions, they fired her. She of course plunged deep into

depression - wacky eating and sleeping habits and heaven knows what

else - and now a year later has pulled it back together to get

herself a position with even more responsibility. Go figure.

Sara

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I took a slight WTO vacation last week but here I am again.

Also preparing for my big out-of-state move so not checking the list

as carefully as I might like!

>

> Does anyone else feel they had a nada who went from high-

functioning to low-functioning and back again? I can think of

several times where my mother truly seemed to lose it -- enough that

those around here at work and other places also noticed it. I

believe that the last time cost her her job, although she has never

said why she retired/got fired/who can ever tell the truth?

>

> is

>

> ---------------------------------

> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s

user panel and lay it on us.

>

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Re: HFBP or LFBP -- which is worse?

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