Antidepressants

December 1, 2003

In a message dated 11/30/2003 10:47:22 PM Central Standard Time,

birmanangel@... writes:

I have RA and Fibromyalgia. My MD prescribed Effexor three years ago which

decreased my pain until about a year ago. He then added Neurontin, which really

helped decrease Fibro pain. About two months ago, we decided to try a

different antidepressant since the Effexor wasn't doing much for my depression.

I

would like some info about experiences (and side effects) with other

antidepressants.

Many thanks!

HI,

There is also a fascinating article in Oct Scientific American about

neurogenisis, the growth of new brain cells. They used to think you never

developed

more brain cells but now find that you do. They suspect that some

antidepressants boost the growth.

Peace,

Nedra 2 of 5, ADHD, OA,+ migraine

Borg Mom Resistance is Futile in finding what works for my kids

Nick, 17, AS, ADHD, + CAPD

Ben, 15, AS + ADHD

Matt, 12, very AS, ADHD,+Complex Partial Seizures of the Temporo- Limbic

region

God knew there would be children with Autism - and in honor of them He made

the planets in the solar system spin round and round, round and round.....

December 31, 2005

NOTE: I think this is important. As you all know, I am not a big fan of the

FDA's approving

sometimes dangerous pharmaceuticals and devices. However, sometimes the claims

against the pharma companies are unwarranted. I believe this is one.

The most dangerous time for severely depressed people is when they begin gaining

energy, but still have not recovered yet from the depression. When taking

antidepressants,

a person should be monitored closely. This does not mean the antidepressants

themselves

are dangerous. It does mean that this period is the most likely time someone may

attempt

suicide - as she/he is gaining energy but still is depressed. This means the

antidepressants are starting to work -- not that they are inherently dangerous.

Antidepressants saved my life. They are a huge help to many people. That doesn't

mean

that they are not overprescribed (I suspect they are). In particular, young

people are too

quickly prescribed drugs, from all I have read. That means only that doctors and

patients

should be judicious about medication, not that the medication is inherently bad

or

dangerous.

---------

Depression Drugs Safe, Beneficial, Studies Say

Suicide Risk Rejected, But Critics Question Validity of Findings

By Rob Stein and Marc Kaufman

Washington Post Staff Writers

Sunday, January 1, 2006; A01

Antidepressants, such as Prozac and similar drugs, help many patients overcome

their

often disabling psychiatric disease and do not increase the risk for suicide,

according to

two large studies being published today that counter recent concerns about the

popular

medications.

The findings from two independent, federally funded studies -- the first of

their kind --

spurred some psychiatrists to call for the Food and Drug Administration to

reevaluate its

warnings about the drugs, which have been blamed for a decline in their use.

" The take-home message from these studies is that we have treatment that is

effective

and that the risk from depression is far greater than the risk of treatment, "

said Darrel A.

Regier, director of research for the American Psychiatric Association, a group

that has

been critical of the warnings. " These studies are very important. "

Some other medical professionals, however, questioned the results, saying they

failed, for

example, to show that the drugs were more effective or safer than a placebo.

" The big bulk of the response to antidepressants is the placebo response, " said

Irving

Kirsch, a psychologist at the University of Plymouth in England. " I don't think

these studies

are very informative. "

Critics also said the findings indicate that most patients do not benefit from

the drugs.

" These pills can be useful pills, but they don't match up to the hype we've had

that they

really cure the illness, " said psychiatrist Healy of Cardiff University in

Wales, who

added that the research could not rule out the possibility that the medications

increase the

risk for suicide among some patients. " As far as the risk for suicide, this

sheds very little

light on that issue, " he said.

One of the new studies, of nearly 3,000 adults suffering from major depression,

found

that about one-third experienced a full remission within weeks of taking an

antidepressant, while another 15 percent experienced some improvement -- meaning

nearly half got at least some benefit. The second study, of more than 65,000

patients,

found that the risk of suicide for both adults and teenagers drops after

treatment begins,

with the newest drugs appearing to be the safest.

Regier said the new studies provide strong evidence for the safety and

effectiveness of the

drugs. And he said he fears that the FDA warnings, which were issued in 2004 and

2005,

could lead to an increase in suicides because psychiatrists may be reluctant to

prescribe

the antidepressants.

" What the FDA initiated was in some ways a natural experiment, " Regier said.

" This is the

kind of rigorous scientific information the FDA should consider in evaluating

its decisions. "

Temple, the FDA's director of medical policy, called the findings

" reassuring " but

said they do not settle the issue. The agency was continuing to study the drugs'

safety in

the hopes of clarifying their safety further, he said.

" There's no question that many psychiatrists are worried that the public fuss

about

suicidality will lead to the failure of some patients to use antidepressants

when

appropriate. We are very worried about that, too, " Temple said.

After rapidly increasing in use for a decade, the number of prescriptions for

antidepressants dropped 2 percent for the first 10 months of 2005, according to

IMS

Health, a pharmaceutical consulting company.

Antidepressants such as Prozac transformed the treatment of depression because

they

were considered highly effective and safe, allowing many more patients to use

them. As a

result, they quickly became among the most widely used prescription medications.

The

drugs, however, fell under a cloud when reports indicated they increased the

risk for

suicidal thinking, particularly among teenagers.

Those reports led some critics to press for stronger FDA action, and in 2004 the

agency

ordered companies to include a " black box " warning saying that antidepressants

could

increase suicidal thinking in young people. That warning was followed by a July

2005

public advisory that said adults beginning on antidepressants should be closely

watched

because of preliminary studies suggesting that they, too, could be at greater

risk of

suicidal thinking and behavior.

The new studies are the first large-scale efforts to independently evaluate the

drugs

without using data from drug companies' studies. Both were funded by the

National

Institute of Mental Health and conducted by independent scientists. They are

being

published in today's issue of the American Psychiatric Association's American

Journal of

Psychiatry.

In one study, E. Simon of the Group Health ative, a large, private

nonprofit

health insurance company based in Seattle, analyzed data from 65,103 patients

who took

antidepressants between Jan. 1, 1992, and June 30, 2003, comparing the rate of

suicide

attempts and death from suicide attempts before and after treatment began -- the

first

such study to track patients over time. Previous studies had examined reports of

suicidal

thoughts among patients.

The researchers found that the risk of attempted suicide was 60 percent lower in

the

month after treatment began and that it continued to decline. While the overall

risk for

suicide was higher for adolescents than adults, the reduction in risk was about

the same

for both groups. When the researchers specifically examined 10 of the newest

antidepressants, such as Prozac -- the ones that have come under the most

suspicion --

they found that the risk was even lower.

While some people may react negatively to the drugs, the findings indicate that

for most

patients the medications do not increase the risk of suicide, Simon and others

said.

" There may very well be individuals who are sensitive to these medications, and

doctors

should monitor their patients carefully, " Simon said. " But on average most

people are not

at higher risk. If anything, they appear to be at lower risk for a serious

attempt at suicide

or dying of suicide. "

The second study involved the first analysis of data from a $35 million ongoing

trial

known as Star-D, which is designed to provide the first large-scale analysis of

various

depression treatments in real-life settings.

The analysis involved 2,876 adults around the country who took the

antidepressant Celexa

at 41 sites representing different types of settings, including clinics,

psychiatrists' offices

and primary care providers' offices, for up to 14 weeks. Within an average of

eight weeks,

28 to 33 percent of patients experienced a complete remission, and 10 to 15

percent

experienced some improvement, the researchers found.

Although the response rate in some previous studies has been better, researchers

said the

findings were encouraging because drugs often fail to perform as well in

real-world

settings, where many of the patients also have other mental or physical problems

and

treatment is often more complicated. There was no indication the drugs increased

the risk

for suicide.

" This is very good news, " said psychiatrist Rush of the University of Texas

Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas, who led the study. " We were able to

achieve a

significant level of remission in a group of patients who are difficult to treat

in a real-

world setting. That's encouraging. "

The study will continue to evaluate how best to treat patients who do not

respond,

including whether other drugs or a combination of drugs and therapy may be

effective.

The current FDA review of suicidal thinking in adults taking antidepressants

will ultimately

analyze much of the existing clinical data on the subject. It is scheduled to be

completed

this summer.

December 31, 2005

I also believe that antidepressants save lives, but need to be

monitored. But, many are given them by their MD or other doctor, not a

psychiatrist, and many MD's are not very good at monitoring a patient's

progress. There are obviously some who do a good job, but you cannot just

hand out antidepressants. You must do thorough follow up and also be sure

a patient is getting counselling.

Of course, I am a social worker, and worked with antidepressants. I have

seen them save lives. And we monitored the patient quite closely and did

counselling and follow-up.

Any drug can have side effects. Many save lives. We just have to be

cautious. Every drug can affect our bodies and we have to be good patients

and be aware of what is going on in our bodies.

I would never support a position that says all antidepressants are bad,

just like all other drugs are not necessarily bad (well, some probably are

just plain bad!!!!!!!), but we must be educated consumers.

Lynda

At 11:09 PM 12/31/2005, you wrote:

>NOTE: I think this is important. As you all know, I am not a big fan of

>the FDA's approving

>sometimes dangerous pharmaceuticals and devices. However, sometimes the

>claims

>against the pharma companies are unwarranted. I believe this is one.

>

>The most dangerous time for severely depressed people is when they begin

>gaining

>energy, but still have not recovered yet from the depression. When taking

>antidepressants,

>a person should be monitored closely. This does not mean the

>antidepressants themselves

>are dangerous. It does mean that this period is the most likely time

>someone may attempt

>suicide - as she/he is gaining energy but still is depressed. This means the

>antidepressants are starting to work -- not that they are inherently

>dangerous.

>

>Antidepressants saved my life. They are a huge help to many people. That

>doesn't mean

>that they are not overprescribed (I suspect they are). In particular,

>young people are too

>quickly prescribed drugs, from all I have read. That means only that

>doctors and patients

>should be judicious about medication, not that the medication is

>inherently bad or

>dangerous.

>

>---------

>Depression Drugs Safe, Beneficial, Studies Say

>Suicide Risk Rejected, But Critics Question Validity of Findings

>By Rob Stein and Marc Kaufman

>Washington Post Staff Writers

>Sunday, January 1, 2006; A01

>

>Antidepressants, such as Prozac and similar drugs, help many patients

>overcome their

>often disabling psychiatric disease and do not increase the risk for

>suicide, according to

>two large studies being published today that counter recent concerns about

>the popular

>medications.

>

>The findings from two independent, federally funded studies -- the first

>of their kind --

>spurred some psychiatrists to call for the Food and Drug Administration to

>reevaluate its

>warnings about the drugs, which have been blamed for a decline in their use.

>

> " The take-home message from these studies is that we have treatment that

>is effective

>and that the risk from depression is far greater than the risk of

>treatment, " said Darrel A.

>Regier, director of research for the American Psychiatric Association, a

>group that has

>been critical of the warnings. " These studies are very important. "

>

>Some other medical professionals, however, questioned the results, saying

>they failed, for

>example, to show that the drugs were more effective or safer than a placebo.

>

> " The big bulk of the response to antidepressants is the placebo response, "

>said Irving

>Kirsch, a psychologist at the University of Plymouth in England. " I don't

>think these studies

>are very informative. "

>

>Critics also said the findings indicate that most patients do not benefit

>from the drugs.

> " These pills can be useful pills, but they don't match up to the hype

>we've had that they

>really cure the illness, " said psychiatrist Healy of Cardiff

>University in Wales, who

>added that the research could not rule out the possibility that the

>medications increase the

>risk for suicide among some patients. " As far as the risk for suicide,

>this sheds very little

>light on that issue, " he said.

>

>One of the new studies, of nearly 3,000 adults suffering from major

>depression, found

>that about one-third experienced a full remission within weeks of taking an

>antidepressant, while another 15 percent experienced some improvement --

>meaning

>nearly half got at least some benefit. The second study, of more than

>65,000 patients,

>found that the risk of suicide for both adults and teenagers drops after

>treatment begins,

>with the newest drugs appearing to be the safest.

>

>Regier said the new studies provide strong evidence for the safety and

>effectiveness of the

>drugs. And he said he fears that the FDA warnings, which were issued in

>2004 and 2005,

>could lead to an increase in suicides because psychiatrists may be

>reluctant to prescribe

>the antidepressants.

>

> " What the FDA initiated was in some ways a natural experiment, " Regier

>said. " This is the

>kind of rigorous scientific information the FDA should consider in

>evaluating its decisions. "

>

> Temple, the FDA's director of medical policy, called the findings

> " reassuring " but

>said they do not settle the issue. The agency was continuing to study the

>drugs' safety in

>the hopes of clarifying their safety further, he said.

>

> " There's no question that many psychiatrists are worried that the public

>fuss about

>suicidality will lead to the failure of some patients to use

>antidepressants when

>appropriate. We are very worried about that, too, " Temple said.

>

>After rapidly increasing in use for a decade, the number of prescriptions for

>antidepressants dropped 2 percent for the first 10 months of 2005,

>according to IMS

>Health, a pharmaceutical consulting company.

>

>Antidepressants such as Prozac transformed the treatment of depression

>because they

>were considered highly effective and safe, allowing many more patients to

>use them. As a

>result, they quickly became among the most widely used prescription

>medications. The

>drugs, however, fell under a cloud when reports indicated they increased

>the risk for

>suicidal thinking, particularly among teenagers.

>

>Those reports led some critics to press for stronger FDA action, and in

>2004 the agency

>ordered companies to include a " black box " warning saying that

>antidepressants could

>increase suicidal thinking in young people. That warning was followed by a

>July 2005

>public advisory that said adults beginning on antidepressants should be

>closely watched

>because of preliminary studies suggesting that they, too, could be at

>greater risk of

>suicidal thinking and behavior.

>

>The new studies are the first large-scale efforts to independently

>evaluate the drugs

>without using data from drug companies' studies. Both were funded by the

>National

>Institute of Mental Health and conducted by independent scientists. They

>are being

>published in today's issue of the American Psychiatric Association's

>American Journal of

>Psychiatry.

>

>In one study, E. Simon of the Group Health ative, a large,

>private nonprofit

>health insurance company based in Seattle, analyzed data from 65,103

>patients who took

>antidepressants between Jan. 1, 1992, and June 30, 2003, comparing the

>rate of suicide

>attempts and death from suicide attempts before and after treatment began

>-- the first

>such study to track patients over time. Previous studies had examined

>reports of suicidal

>thoughts among patients.

>

>The researchers found that the risk of attempted suicide was 60 percent

>lower in the

>month after treatment began and that it continued to decline. While the

>overall risk for

>suicide was higher for adolescents than adults, the reduction in risk was

>about the same

>for both groups. When the researchers specifically examined 10 of the newest

>antidepressants, such as Prozac -- the ones that have come under the most

>suspicion --

>they found that the risk was even lower.

>

>While some people may react negatively to the drugs, the findings indicate

>that for most

>patients the medications do not increase the risk of suicide, Simon and

>others said.

>

> " There may very well be individuals who are sensitive to these

>medications, and doctors

>should monitor their patients carefully, " Simon said. " But on average most

>people are not

>at higher risk. If anything, they appear to be at lower risk for a serious

>attempt at suicide

>or dying of suicide. "

>

>The second study involved the first analysis of data from a $35 million

>ongoing trial

>known as Star-D, which is designed to provide the first large-scale

>analysis of various

>depression treatments in real-life settings.

>

>The analysis involved 2,876 adults around the country who took the

>antidepressant Celexa

>at 41 sites representing different types of settings, including clinics,

>psychiatrists' offices

>and primary care providers' offices, for up to 14 weeks. Within an average

>of eight weeks,

>28 to 33 percent of patients experienced a complete remission, and 10 to

>15 percent

>experienced some improvement, the researchers found.

>

>Although the response rate in some previous studies has been better,

>researchers said the

>findings were encouraging because drugs often fail to perform as well in

>real-world

>settings, where many of the patients also have other mental or physical

>problems and

>treatment is often more complicated. There was no indication the drugs

>increased the risk

>for suicide.

>

> " This is very good news, " said psychiatrist Rush of the University of

>Texas

>Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas, who led the study. " We were able to

>achieve a

>significant level of remission in a group of patients who are difficult to

>treat in a real-

>world setting. That's encouraging. "

>

>The study will continue to evaluate how best to treat patients who do not

>respond,

>including whether other drugs or a combination of drugs and therapy may be

>effective.

>The current FDA review of suicidal thinking in adults taking

>antidepressants will ultimately

>analyze much of the existing clinical data on the subject. It is scheduled

>to be completed

>this summer.

>

>Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by

>licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed

>health care professional before commencing any medical treatment.

>

> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.

>Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live

>a happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing,

>two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

>

>See our photos website! Enter " implants " for access at this link:

><http://.shutterfly.com/action/>http://.shutterfly.co\

m/action/

>

December 31, 2005

Well said, Lynda! The the real issue with antidepressants is proper

monitoring. Most

general MDs don't do that. A psyhiatrist will. In Florida, there is an effort

to allow

psychologists to prescribe antidepressants. With proper training, they should

be able to

do this, in my opinion. In fact, I think that would be the ideal situation - a

therapist who is

seeing a patient should be able to best monitor him/her. I suspect there would

be alot

less overprescribing that way. The psychiatrists are much opposed, of course.

I think the

only purpose they have in live is to prescribe meds.

And yes, there are some medications (and medical devices) that are plain BAD.

Um, like breast imlants?

> >NOTE: I think this is important. As you all know, I am not a big fan of

> >the FDA's approving

> >sometimes dangerous pharmaceuticals and devices. However, sometimes the

> >claims

> >against the pharma companies are unwarranted. I believe this is one.

> >

> >The most dangerous time for severely depressed people is when they begin

> >gaining

> >energy, but still have not recovered yet from the depression. When taking

> >antidepressants,

> >a person should be monitored closely. This does not mean the

> >antidepressants themselves

> >are dangerous. It does mean that this period is the most likely time

> >someone may attempt

> >suicide - as she/he is gaining energy but still is depressed. This means the

> >antidepressants are starting to work -- not that they are inherently

> >dangerous.

> >

> >Antidepressants saved my life. They are a huge help to many people. That

> >doesn't mean

> >that they are not overprescribed (I suspect they are). In particular,

> >young people are too

> >quickly prescribed drugs, from all I have read. That means only that

> >doctors and patients

> >should be judicious about medication, not that the medication is

> >inherently bad or

> >dangerous.

> >

> >---------

> >Depression Drugs Safe, Beneficial, Studies Say

> >Suicide Risk Rejected, But Critics Question Validity of Findings

> >By Rob Stein and Marc Kaufman

> >Washington Post Staff Writers

> >Sunday, January 1, 2006; A01

> >

> >Antidepressants, such as Prozac and similar drugs, help many patients

> >overcome their

> >often disabling psychiatric disease and do not increase the risk for

> >suicide, according to

> >two large studies being published today that counter recent concerns about

> >the popular

> >medications.

> >

> >The findings from two independent, federally funded studies -- the first

> >of their kind --

> >spurred some psychiatrists to call for the Food and Drug Administration to

> >reevaluate its

> >warnings about the drugs, which have been blamed for a decline in their use.

> >

> > " The take-home message from these studies is that we have treatment that

> >is effective

> >and that the risk from depression is far greater than the risk of

> >treatment, " said Darrel A.

> >Regier, director of research for the American Psychiatric Association, a

> >group that has

> >been critical of the warnings. " These studies are very important. "

> >

> >Some other medical professionals, however, questioned the results, saying

> >they failed, for

> >example, to show that the drugs were more effective or safer than a placebo.

> >

> > " The big bulk of the response to antidepressants is the placebo response, "

> >said Irving

> >Kirsch, a psychologist at the University of Plymouth in England. " I don't

> >think these studies

> >are very informative. "

> >

> >Critics also said the findings indicate that most patients do not benefit

> >from the drugs.

> > " These pills can be useful pills, but they don't match up to the hype

> >we've had that they

> >really cure the illness, " said psychiatrist Healy of Cardiff

> >University in Wales, who

> >added that the research could not rule out the possibility that the

> >medications increase the

> >risk for suicide among some patients. " As far as the risk for suicide,

> >this sheds very little

> >light on that issue, " he said.

> >

> >One of the new studies, of nearly 3,000 adults suffering from major

> >depression, found

> >that about one-third experienced a full remission within weeks of taking an

> >antidepressant, while another 15 percent experienced some improvement --

> >meaning

> >nearly half got at least some benefit. The second study, of more than

> >65,000 patients,

> >found that the risk of suicide for both adults and teenagers drops after

> >treatment begins,

> >with the newest drugs appearing to be the safest.

> >

> >Regier said the new studies provide strong evidence for the safety and

> >effectiveness of the

> >drugs. And he said he fears that the FDA warnings, which were issued in

> >2004 and 2005,

> >could lead to an increase in suicides because psychiatrists may be

> >reluctant to prescribe

> >the antidepressants.

> >

> > " What the FDA initiated was in some ways a natural experiment, " Regier

> >said. " This is the

> >kind of rigorous scientific information the FDA should consider in

> >evaluating its decisions. "

> >

> > Temple, the FDA's director of medical policy, called the findings

> > " reassuring " but

> >said they do not settle the issue. The agency was continuing to study the

> >drugs' safety in

> >the hopes of clarifying their safety further, he said.

> >

> > " There's no question that many psychiatrists are worried that the public

> >fuss about

> >suicidality will lead to the failure of some patients to use

> >antidepressants when

> >appropriate. We are very worried about that, too, " Temple said.

> >

> >After rapidly increasing in use for a decade, the number of prescriptions for

> >antidepressants dropped 2 percent for the first 10 months of 2005,

> >according to IMS

> >Health, a pharmaceutical consulting company.

> >

> >Antidepressants such as Prozac transformed the treatment of depression

> >because they

> >were considered highly effective and safe, allowing many more patients to

> >use them. As a

> >result, they quickly became among the most widely used prescription

> >medications. The

> >drugs, however, fell under a cloud when reports indicated they increased

> >the risk for

> >suicidal thinking, particularly among teenagers.

> >

> >Those reports led some critics to press for stronger FDA action, and in

> >2004 the agency

> >ordered companies to include a " black box " warning saying that

> >antidepressants could

> >increase suicidal thinking in young people. That warning was followed by a

> >July 2005

> >public advisory that said adults beginning on antidepressants should be

> >closely watched

> >because of preliminary studies suggesting that they, too, could be at

> >greater risk of

> >suicidal thinking and behavior.

> >

> >The new studies are the first large-scale efforts to independently

> >evaluate the drugs

> >without using data from drug companies' studies. Both were funded by the

> >National

> >Institute of Mental Health and conducted by independent scientists. They

> >are being

> >published in today's issue of the American Psychiatric Association's

> >American Journal of

> >Psychiatry.

> >

> >In one study, E. Simon of the Group Health ative, a large,

> >private nonprofit

> >health insurance company based in Seattle, analyzed data from 65,103

> >patients who took

> >antidepressants between Jan. 1, 1992, and June 30, 2003, comparing the

> >rate of suicide

> >attempts and death from suicide attempts before and after treatment began

> >-- the first

> >such study to track patients over time. Previous studies had examined

> >reports of suicidal

> >thoughts among patients.

> >

> >The researchers found that the risk of attempted suicide was 60 percent

> >lower in the

> >month after treatment began and that it continued to decline. While the

> >overall risk for

> >suicide was higher for adolescents than adults, the reduction in risk was

> >about the same

> >for both groups. When the researchers specifically examined 10 of the newest

> >antidepressants, such as Prozac -- the ones that have come under the most

> >suspicion --

> >they found that the risk was even lower.

> >

> >While some people may react negatively to the drugs, the findings indicate

> >that for most

> >patients the medications do not increase the risk of suicide, Simon and

> >others said.

> >

> > " There may very well be individuals who are sensitive to these

> >medications, and doctors

> >should monitor their patients carefully, " Simon said. " But on average most

> >people are not

> >at higher risk. If anything, they appear to be at lower risk for a serious

> >attempt at suicide

> >or dying of suicide. "

> >

> >The second study involved the first analysis of data from a $35 million

> >ongoing trial

> >known as Star-D, which is designed to provide the first large-scale

> >analysis of various

> >depression treatments in real-life settings.

> >

> >The analysis involved 2,876 adults around the country who took the

> >antidepressant Celexa

> >at 41 sites representing different types of settings, including clinics,

> >psychiatrists' offices

> >and primary care providers' offices, for up to 14 weeks. Within an average

> >of eight weeks,

> >28 to 33 percent of patients experienced a complete remission, and 10 to

> >15 percent

> >experienced some improvement, the researchers found.

> >

> >Although the response rate in some previous studies has been better,

> >researchers said the

> >findings were encouraging because drugs often fail to perform as well in

> >real-world

> >settings, where many of the patients also have other mental or physical

> >problems and

> >treatment is often more complicated. There was no indication the drugs

> >increased the risk

> >for suicide.

> >

> > " This is very good news, " said psychiatrist Rush of the University of

> >Texas

> >Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas, who led the study. " We were able to

> >achieve a

> >significant level of remission in a group of patients who are difficult to

> >treat in a real-

> >world setting. That's encouraging. "

> >

> >The study will continue to evaluate how best to treat patients who do not

> >respond,

> >including whether other drugs or a combination of drugs and therapy may be

> >effective.

> >The current FDA review of suicidal thinking in adults taking

> >antidepressants will ultimately

> >analyze much of the existing clinical data on the subject. It is scheduled

> >to be completed

> >this summer.

> >

> >Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by

> >licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed

> >health care professional before commencing any medical treatment.

> >

> > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.

> >Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live

> >a happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing,

> >two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> >

> >See our photos website! Enter " implants " for access at this link:

>

><http://.shutterfly.com/action/>http://.shutterfly.co\

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> >

April 19, 2007

I am glad they worked for you and I will add I know the drug has a

place in medicine and is good for some people. BUT, for so many of us

they ruined our lives. Antidepressants took away some of what should

had been the best years of my life! I regret ever going on them. I

got normal after I got off of them and I will never go that route

again!! They are over prescribed period.

> >

> > " I think antidepressants are one of the worst medicines to take on

> > the market and way over Rxed and not appropriately Rxed too. "

> >

> From personal experience, I disagree. If it wasn't for my taking

> antidepressants in the last 15 years, I would not have had the full

> and active life I had. Not to mention, those around me were suffering

> also.

>

April 20, 2007

Barb,

I So agree.

Elvira

[] Re: Drugs taken by shooter

I think antidepressants are one of the worst medicines to take on

the market and way over Rxed and not appropriately Rxed too.

They 'stick' in your body and change so many of your system, making

your body so abnormal. I suffered from insomnia due to stress but

doctors kept wanting to give me antidepressants but they ALWAYS made

me worse and one time I was given one, I believe Zoloft, and I

literally <paced the floor and wrang my hands> I was sooo uptight on

it. I can see someone flipping out on these drugs. I think MAIN

problem is that doctors are not good as determining what is REALLY

inappropriate depression and what is normal depression that one

needs to deal with naturally and most importantly what is STRESS.

An antidepressants makes STRESS much much WORSE, so if someone is

under tremendous stress being given an antidepressants can literally

put them over the edge. I think antidepressants are MUCH more

dangerous than sedatives and yet sedatives are controlled substances

so doctors are hesitant to Rxed them and antidepressants are not and

doctors write Rxs for these medicines like they are perfectly

benign, which they definately are NOT. If shooter was on

antidepressants, I would not be surprised that they may have

contributed greatly to magnifying size of crime.

>

> A few years ago I was assualted by an intruder in my home when I

April 20, 2007

There is no doubt that the doctors are prescribing them probably

unnecessarily. And if you feel better and are leading a productive

life without them, then you obviously don't need to be on them.

I on the other hand, when off antidepressants, end up secluded in the

house in a paranoid state, crying most of the time needlessly,

agititated and picking fights with my family over nothing, and worse

of all I have a doom and gloom attitude that I cannot shake off no

matter what I do. So I am grateful for them.

April 20, 2007

I also take anti depressants and anti anxiety pills. As a prisoner in my own

home I was crying and wanted to kill myself. At least now I can bear it better

Janet

**************************************

See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

April 20, 2007

As with anything we are all different. My husband cannot take

antidepresants because he has had bad effects. I take medication for a

neurological condition and I don't think I would have survived without

it. It is like my blood is surging and before medication I twitched

about a million times a day and it was very disturbing and painful. So

I take clonodine and ativan both in the am and pm and it keeps me

comfortable excluding the mold illness and the multiple chemical

problems. And I would never sleep without them. I just do not sleep

with out medication and even then I sleep 4 hours and get up for 2 or3

hours and read and take morning medication, than I am able to get 3

more hours of sleep. So atleast I get about 7 hours of sleep but it is

spaced out a little. I don't take them for sleep I just get sleepy in

the morning after I take them so it works out for me.

>

> Barb,

>

> I So agree.

>

> Elvira

>

> [] Re: Drugs taken by shooter

>

> I think antidepressants are one of the worst medicines to take on

> the market and way over Rxed and not appropriately Rxed too.

April 20, 2007

Sounds just like me. I haven't been on antidepressants for yrs. I was on

them for a few yrs. during an early menopause and they helped. Now after being

out of my toxic workplace for 4 yrs. I'm beginning to have the anxiety,

nervousness, crying, upset with family members & just not happy. I stay

constantly worried & frightened about EVERYTHING! I don't even like running

the

dishwasher or shower for fear of leaks. When it starts to rain I get horribly

nervous. I wasn't this nervous 4 yrs. ago when I first got so sick. My health

is

fine at home and Dr. proved with the blood work that I was sick from my

school so why am I so nervous now. I even have nightmares about mold growing in

my

closets. It's like flashbacks of the past!!! They only time I don't worry

about things or think about mold is when I go to sleep. I take a very low dose

of Xanax & afraid to start any antidepressants but I think I may have to.

I'm just not the same person I used to be. This illness, as you all know so

well, has totally changed my life.

Sue

I on the other hand, when off antidepressants, end up secluded in the

house in a paranoid state, crying most of the time needlessly,

agititated and picking fights with my family over nothing, and worse

of all I have a doom and gloom attitude that I cannot shake off no

matter what I do. So I am grateful for them.

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

April 20, 2007

I started on them after I was assaulted by an intruder in my home who

tried to kill me, I escaped through a 2 story window. 2 years later my

home was burgularized and every thing was stolen. I was a single hard

working mom and everything I worked so hard for was just gone! Plus the

added trama of the assault in my home 2 year prior really freaked me

out in the most horrible way. I had dreams. I was going nuts. I had a

classic case of PTSD. My dosage was upped after the 2nd break in. I

had little emotional support from my family...they were actually jerks

through the whole ordeal. Of course I was in an emotional mess and

prozac numbed that horrible depression. In all honesty, I think I

needed a little something to get me through but the way they kept

upping the dose made me go from depressed to out and out carzy! I did

things I would had never done in a normal state of mind! Just stupid

stuff. I started having thoughts of wanting to harm myself and almost

did several times. I was just plain out crazy as hell! It was not

until I saw on TV about how antidepressants effected kids that I

realized those drugs were doing the same to me. I went off but quickly

realized I would have withdrawals. I started cutting my dosage until I

was all the way off of them. I found a doctor who understood that the

dang things made me crazy and sucidial and he never pushed them on me.

After I got off the drug, I grieved and cried and hurt so bad about

what had happened to my family and I years ago. This is what I needed

was to go through, a normal greiving process to began to heal. I am OK

now. I no longer think about what happened in 92 and 94. I am sure if

I never got off of the antidepressants, I would still be thinking and

obcessing over what happened way back then.

I thnk in the beginning right after the crimes against me it would had

been proper for the doctors to given me a little bit of antidepressants

along with counseling. I believe maybe 3 months would had been enough

to get me through the worse, but I really believe I could had made it

through without anything. All in all, I did not need such high

dosages. I am almost certain that my liver can't handle too much crap

any ways.

But all in all, I know they have a place in medicine but not for me.

>

> There is no doubt that the doctors are prescribing them probably

> unnecessarily. And if you feel better and are leading a productive

> life without them, then you obviously don't need to be on them.

>

> I on the other hand, when off antidepressants, end up secluded in the

> house in a paranoid state, crying most of the time needlessly,

> agititated and picking fights with my family over nothing, and worse

> of all I have a doom and gloom attitude that I cannot shake off no

> matter what I do. So I am grateful for them.

>

April 20, 2007

I don't believe Clonodine is an antidepressant . Ativan is a

sedative. Antidepressants are uppers and sedatives are downers so

they would be opposites. I don't know what I would do if I wasn't

able to take a sedative through stressful time to help me to get a

good night's sleep. For some reason I cannot tolerate any kind of

alcohol, no beer, wine or hard liquor so I can't have a relaxing

moment that way. Beer, wine, alchol, all give me headache or make me

feel sickish. I love the taste of beer and used to have no trouble

with alcohol pre-illness.

--- In , " ldelp84227 " <ldelp84227@...>

wrote:

>

>> I take clonodine and ativan both in the am and pm and it keeps me

> comfortable excluding the mold illness and the multiple chemical

> problems. And I would never sleep without them.

April 20, 2007

We have something in common here. I went through a traumatic event

at 32. Due to that, I thought my fatigue might be post traumatic

syndrome and thought that was just getting worse when I got sick in

moldy house. I pretty much have lived on a benzodiapene since

then. I limit it to small amount only at night also so it doesn't

get out of control. I've read the mechanism it works by is by

helping you to " forget " , that is part of brain it works on. Maybe

something as little as the day's troubles for bedtime so mind

doesn't race or bigger things that you need to forget about at

bedtime. Xanax isn't an antidepressant though. It is polar

opposite, a downer. Some people do take both 'uppers'

(antidepressant) and 'downers' (sedatives). I can't tolerate

an " upper " at all. I'm not saying they don't do some people alot of

good but in our stressful times I think not as many people need

an " upper " that are being prescribed them. And, if you give an

upper to someone under tremendouse stress, this can drive them over

the edge so they aren't as benign as doctor's treat them. There are

many over the counter uppers that are much safer than pharmacy

antidepressants. For example Sam-E for one. (If you try any upper,

start off in the a.m. only so it doesn't keep you up at night.)

>

> Sounds just like me. I haven't been on antidepressants for yrs. I

was on

April 21, 2007

Antidepressants made me sleep ALL of the time! Once I was falling

asleep while I was going to my son's school to get him out early for a

dr's appt. I had to pull over because I was really falling asleep. I

slept for 2 hours on the side of the road, I was only about a fourth of

a mile from his school! He missed his appt, all of the kids had left

school and he left class early to wait for me outside. That was another

negitive side effect of antidepressants on me! As I keep saying, that

drug took away the best years of my life, while my kids were growing

up. By the time I figured out what was wrong in that respect and got

off of the drug, they were grown and gone. I hate antidepressants

because of what it took from my life!

> >

> >> I take clonodine and ativan both in the am and pm and it keeps me

> > comfortable excluding the mold illness and the multiple chemical

> > problems. And I would never sleep without them.

>

April 21, 2007

I am on zoloft, klonopin, Geodon and some xanax at times

Janet

**************************************

See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

April 21, 2007

Some people do have this effect. I wonder if it is due to elevation

of your mood or what. Some people have paradoxical effects from

uppers, like people put on Ritalin, which is an upper/stimulant used

to treat hyperactivity! My grandmother used to have a warm cup of

coffee when she couldn't sleep in the middle of the night.

There is also a phenomenon with antidepressants that in the

beginning and in small doses they are relaxing but in larger doses

or when they build up in your system, they become a stimulant or

upper. This is effect doctor is looking for and why they say you

have to take it for awhile to have it 'lift your depression' because

at first it can make you sleepy or maybe even tired. However it

sounds like you took it a long time with this effect.

I did get HUGE sleepy effect from Remeron antidepressant, which I

took reluctantly because a new doctor would not Rx the benzo I

normally took. I was surprised that it worked for my sleep.

However, within a couple of weeks I developed very painful throat

and rare side effect listed on label of suppressed immune system

that was the beginning of my downward spiral of my health in 2003,

so the only antidepressant that actually did help me with sleep,

ruined my health, so didn't improve my view of antidepressants and

made me very angry because I was doing so well for sooooo long, like

20 years, on my small dose of benzodiazapene. Also both of the two

expert Somnologist I had gone to for help had said my use of small

dose of benzo was appropriate and helpful to my type of insomnia and

not abusive, I still had trouble getting it, but doctor always

wanting to try to get me on antidepressants despite my having tried

about at least a dozen before giving up on them, all of which gave

me nasty side effects and two gave me health problems, whereas I

never had any problems with benzos despite the bad reputation they

have with some doctors. I do exert an *huge effort to not allow

myself to take more than small amount Rxed no matter how edgy I

might feel on occasion to keep dose within Rxed limits and also

suffer through an occasional sleepless night without taking more, so

perhaps it has worked for me since I have stuck to taking the

smallest amount I can get away with.

>

> Antidepressants made me sleep ALL of the time!

April 21, 2007

Barb,

I am on one fourth clonopin. I have restless legs and can't sleep. I

have been cutting the dose more and more. I was up to 2 mgs last

year..I have been tapering for a year. For awhile, docs treated me

like I was an addict because of clonopin even though I NEVER abused

the drug. They too prescribed me some really dangerous

antidepressants for sleep. Remon made me sleep for 2 days and eat

like a pig! That was the beginning of my weight gain. I only took

one pill. My husband and family thought it did something horrible to

me because they could not wake me and when they did, I was totally

out. That one pill caused me 3 days of work!! The doctor who

prescribes me the clonoipin knows I don't abuse it and he has no

issues with me taking it. My sleep doctor thinks I should be on the

2mgs but I am really too concerned about my liver now. Until I can

find out more of what is going on with my liver and stomach, I need

to take as few drugs as possible. As far as the antidepressants

making me sleepy, I think it is just the chemical reaction in my

body...caffee makse me awake!!

> 20 years, on my small dose of benzodiazapene. Also both of the two

> expert Somnologist I had gone to for help had said my use of small

> dose of benzo was appropriate and helpful to my type of insomnia

and

> not abusive, I still had trouble getting it, but doctor always

> wanting to try to get me on antidepressants despite my having tried

> about at least a dozen before giving up on them, all of which gave

> me nasty side effects and two gave me health problems, whereas I

> never had any problems with benzos despite the bad reputation they

> have with some doctors. I do exert an *huge effort to not allow

> myself to take more than small amount Rxed no matter how edgy I

> might feel on occasion to keep dose within Rxed limits and also

> suffer through an occasional sleepless night without taking more,

so

> perhaps it has worked for me since I have stuck to taking the

> smallest amount I can get away with.

>

> >

> > Antidepressants made me sleep ALL of the time!

>

April 21, 2007

I HAVE KLONZAPANS(ANTIANIXITY) BUT I ONLY TAKE THEM SOMETIMES IF I CANT

SLEEP. ONE KNOCKS ME OUT FOR ABOUT 14 HOURS AND WHEN I WAKE UP IT MAKES

ME CRY. WHATS SCARY IS THAT YOU CANT WAKE ME UP ON THEM. I HAVE WHAT I

GUESS IS DRUG INTOLERENCE BUT DOCTORS JUST KEEP PRESCRIBEING THEM TO ME

AND WONT GIVE ME ANYTHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY HELP ME. PAIN KILLERS

AFFECT MY CNS BAD AND DO NOTHING FOR THE PAIN, I'VE FOUND THAT EXTRA

STRENGHT SINUS EXCIDERIN HELPS WITH THE SINUS ACKES BETTER THAN ANY

PAIN KILLERS I'VE TRIED AND IT DOESN'T CAUSE THE STRANGE EFFECTS TO MY

BODY. OTHER THAN THAT A LITTLE MILK THISALE WHEN MY KIDNEYS GO TO

HURTING, AND NAC AND ALA SOMETIMES. MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS ARE THAT TO

MUCH OF ANYTHING CANT BE GOOD.

>

> I am on zoloft, klonopin, Geodon and some xanax at times

> Janet

>

> **************************************

> See what's free at

> http://www.aol.com.

>

April 21, 2007

KLONAPANZ ARE ANTIANIXITY NOT ANTIDEPRESSENT.

> > >

> > > Antidepressants made me sleep ALL of the time!

> >

>

April 21, 2007

I know. Some of these medicines have names that are very similar so

it is confusing and to top that off I've seen many different correct

spelling of Klonopin because in different countries it is named

slightly different.

> >

> > Barb,

> > I am on one fourth clonopin.

April 21, 2007

I KNOW!

> >

> > Barb,

> > I am on one fourth clonopin. I have restless legs and can't sleep.

> I

April 21, 2007

I use to have horrible panic attacks before I went through menapause.

Now I no longer have panic attacks but I can't sleep and have

restless legs. The clonopin was the only drug in the " benzo " family

that helped without side effects. It is amazing how we all are so

different and how different we react to certain meds. Clonopin made

me sleep better and was the only medication that I woke up feeling

refreshed.

> >

> > I am on zoloft, klonopin, Geodon and some xanax at times

> > Janet

> >

> > **************************************

> > See what's free at

> > http://www.aol.com.

> >

April 21, 2007

lexapro here, & neurontin helps the CNS pain.......

victoria

[] Re: Antidepressants