Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Thanks for the response. I want all of this to work but I am still feeling a heavy weight of anxiety and depression. Actually , I am not even in school at the moment. I am out for the summer, so I expected to feel happy, relaxed etc. I started out my summer feeling really good, and then was walking through Wal Mart and saw a child that reminded me of one I had in the past that was hard to handle and caused me a lot of anxiety. A wave of anxiety came over me as I thought " what if I have a child like this and can't control him " . I then go into " No, you don't need to think or feel that anxiety, it will make you quit functioning normally and down the spiral I go. So, I have been in and out of that mode for the past 2 weeks, thinking it was going to go away but panicking when it doesn't. Some days I think it is over and I am fine, then I go to bed and can't sleep and it starts all over again, only causing me more depression because it came back. I can't figure out how to make the ACT techniques work even though they make sense to me and seem like they are what I need. > > > Hi - Welcome to our group. I would recommend working on connecting with the present. Try the " five things " exercise. Notice and name five things that you can see; then notice and name five things that you can feel with your body; then notice and name five things that you can hear. This might allow you to disengage from your thoughts about not being able to sleep. Do this exercise to bring yourself back to the present. I sometimes do this exercise several times in a row and quite often. Also, look AT your thoughts about whatever you are anxious about rather than looking FROM your thoughts. Notice that these are " just " thoughts and not the truth necessarily. Perhaps you can boil your thoughts down to one or two words and then put these words to a children s song or nursery rhyme. This might help take the edge off of your thoughts. > The fact that your are depressed about your job suggests that you might want to do some values work. Both books you are reading have good sections on values. ACT is all about accepting your stuff and getting on with leading a valued life. > > Try some of the exercises in the defusion and acceptance sections of the book. > > Try not to overthink ACT. Be curious about how it might work for you. > > Notice that you are struggling with your thoughts, feelings, etc and that the struggle just makes them worse. Stop struggling - drop the rope. > > Keep in touch. > > Bill > > > To: ACT_for_the_Public > > From: leslie.vanbuskirk@... > > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 02:35:39 +0000 > > Subject: just joined the group > > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep? > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.org > > > > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may > > unsubscribe by sending an email to > > ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 , first thing to understand is that NO ONE can " make " a thought go away...it's futile and will just make it appear more as you can see...so you are not alone in that dept...now you may be a little depressing to you as you have never noticed it before, but the more you try to control thought, the more it ends up controlling you...let go of trying to control, allowing it just to come and go on it's own, more control.. Most seek out help looking for a way to control their thoughts, but only find true freedom when they decide to let go, and allow it to be... best, vc > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 This might not work for everyone, but it is very ACT like. Years ago when I was desperate for sleep I knew that if I started worrying about sleep it wouldn't come. So I told myself, okay, if I don't sleep tonoght I will be so tired tomorrow night that I will sleep then, and if I don't sleep then I certainly will the next night. I had read that your body will always give you enough sleep when it really needs it so you don't need to worry about not getting enough of it. As a result of not getting stresed out about sleepping I always fell asleep in the end. Kiavey > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 , thanks so much for responding!!!! I think this group is going to be very helpful to me!!! I need to apply your philosophy about sleep to all areas of my life, which I get is the point of ACT, right? I so tend to think " this is what such-and-such is supposed to look like " and when it doesn't, my panic level goes completely through the roof. I think this summer I have really been doing that about what I am supposed to be like during the summer. For instance, I tend to say " you are supposed to be calm and relaxed during the summer. The more anxious I get about not being what I think I should be like in the summer the more I struggle. I tend to have an unrealistic view of what my persona should be in that area just like I tend to do as a teacher. I am trying to look at those thoughts without trying to rid myself of them. I've got a ways to go!!! > > > > > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so wor! ked up about not being able to sleep? > > > > > > > P. Forsyth, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Psychology > Director of Clinical Training > Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program > University at Albany, SUNY > Department of Psychology > Social Sciences 399 > 1400 Washington Avenue > Albany, NY 12222 > Ph: > Fax: > email: forsyth@... > > Lab Web Page: > Anxiety Disorders Research Program <http://www.albany.edu/~forsyth> > > Blogs: > Mindfulness & Acceptance for Anxiety <http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/> > > Peace of Mind > <http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/peace-mind/200910/cultivating-peace-mind- > at Psychology Today <http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog> > > Dr. Forsyth <http://www.amazon.com/-P.-Forsyth/e/B001JS0IEK/ref=sr_tc_2_0> > on Amazon.com > > Our Clinical Trials Evaluating ACT for Anxiety: > Visit ACTforAnxiety.com <http://www.ACTforAnxiety.com> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 So nice to hear from a former teacher!!! I feel EVERYTHING you said, especially thinking I have to put on a brave face!!!! Even though it is summer now, those feelings do not just go away and I think I have let that cause me even more angst, saying " Why can't you just let go of all of that, it is summer, you are supposed to be able to relax and forget about school. So, really, I am just putting more rules on what I am supposed to be like in the summer. I am seeing that today a little better than I was yesterday, but still need to work on being in the present and not arguing with my pain. I am still so afraid that my pain is going to overtake me and keep me from functioning like a normal person. > > > > Subject: just joined the group > To: ACT_for_the_Public > Date: Monday, 21 June, 2010, 2:35 > > >  > > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not > being able to sleep? > > Just a few thoughts about teaching. I don't know what the particular anxieties you face are but looking back many years now I remember being under massive pressure from both above (mnanagement and targets to reach), the side (parents blaming you for their children's lack of progress, misdemeanours) and also from below (the pupils). > > Then from within of course when you think it's all your fault. > > I describe the pupils as below not as any kind of value judgement but I found it helped sometimes to imagine myself hovering somewhere above the classroom observing what was going on as this helped me personalise everything less. > > I'm not saying I did this to detach myself from the job, shirk responsiblity, or that I lost control. I just found it helped to have another perspective at times. This way i felt less caught up and trapped within my feelings and able to react less anxiously. > > Even though you generally have contact with other members of staff too my experience was that members of staff were so desperate to show how in control they were that they would put on a brave face giving the impression that you were the only one with a problem if you dared mention one. > > I think teaching can be a bit like acting: you tend to feel dependent on your " audience " and the critics. If you weren't feeling a bit stressed you'd probably be a bit unusual. > > That may not help with your sleepless nights but worrying about the next day and how successful my " performance " will be never helped me sleep either. > > I wish as a teacher I had learnt to put myself first sometimes too and allowed myself some relaxation every day. That hardly ever happened. > > BW, > S. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Thanks, I am really working on that today, trying to just let the thoughts be there. Sometimes they just feel like they are too dangerous and going to take me down. > > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 When I read what you say, my mind goes to work with " what if I can't make that work " I'll be doomed to never sleeping!! Then I tend to start the struggle with my internal self. How do I drop the rope with that? I hope I am not talking too much in this forum!!! > > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Great to hear, and I agree that sometimes it can feel that way in the midst of it, but it is ALWAYS an illusion... Thoughts are NOT harmful...you have thousands of thoughts a day, many of which you like or are neutral too...so you can see, its not a thought in and of itself, but the content of certain thoughts that you are believing are scary and " will take you down " What specifically do you mean by " taking you down " ? As for sleep...what are you afraid of happening if you lose some sleep? Best, vc > > > > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 How do you drop the rope? By letting it be...fighting is futile as you already see Try to just let your mind do it's thing...it thinks...just observe it doing it's job But what is the worst thing that could happen if you could never sleep? I imagine you would get extremely tired, and fall asleep I also imagine that if it doesn't work, there are other ways to help you induce sleep...meditation, vitamins, temporary sleeping aids, exercise, etc.. > > > > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 I get scared that I am never going to feel better, that I am not going to be my normal happy self again. I know I am fusing with the thoughts.Today for instance, I did not sleep that well last night, so I had thoughts of being such a failure, like something was wrong with me. I wanted just to stay in bed and not face the day, but I did get up did a few things, but was faced with the thoughts, " you should be able to shake this, you should feel better than you are feeling " . Anyway, I was scheduled to tutor a little boy today so I showered and went ahead and did that and did better once I was there. I was able to work with him and let the chatter go on in the background.I even felt successful with him, but now that I am back home, I am feeling anxious again and thinking I shouldn't feel that way. " I should be calm and relaxed, I am just at home, there is nothing to stress me " . > > > > > > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep? > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 This is why I say it might not work for everyone because will all have different types of anxiety with different levels of intensity. Despite that, I would say try it and see. If you do have a sleepeness night I bet the next night you will drop off much easier. But what if you don't? Then I bet on the third night you will, that's for sure. When you find that you can get the next day by without a night's sleep, you might then get less anxious about it. It's the anxiety and the struggling to get to sleep, that releases the stress hormones that will keep you awake. This is the perfect example of theory of ACT. When we struggle with something and wish it wasn't like that, you make it worse. By the way, research has shown that when depressed person misses a night's sleep their depression is much less the next day. Some researchers were working on this as a cure for depression but of coarse you can only miss so much sleep, so it is not an effective cure in the long run. So missing a night's sleep occasionally might make you feel better as well. Medication: If I miss a night's sleep I can handle it, but if I take medication, boy do I feel like rubbish the next day. Kaivey > > > > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 FOODS FOR SLEEP What you eat affects how you sleep. One of the keys to a restful night's sleep is to get your brain calmed rather than revved up. Some foods contribute to restful sleep; other foods keep you awake. We call them sleepers and wakers. Sleepers are tryptophan-containing foods, because tryptophan is the amino acid that the body uses to make serotonin, the neurotransmitter that slows down nerve traffic so your brain isn't so busy. Wakers are foods that stimulate neurochemicals that perk up the brain. Tryptophan is a precursor of the sleep-inducing substances serotonin and melatonin. This means tryptophan is the raw material that the brain uses to build these relaxing neurotransmitters. Making more tryptophan available, either by eating foods that contain this substance or by seeing to it that more tryptophan gets to the brain, will help to make you sleepy. On the other hand, nutrients that make tryptophan less available can disturb sleep. Eating carbohydrates with tryptophan-containing foods makes this calming amino acid more available to the brain. A high carbohydrate meal stimulates the release of insulin, which helps clear from the bloodstream those amino acids that compete with tryptophan, allowing more of this natural sleep-inducing amino acid to enter the brain and manufacture sleep- inducing substances, such as serotonin and melatonin. Eating a high-protein meal without accompanying carbohydrates may keep you awake, since protein-rich foods also contain the amino acid, tyrosine, which perks up the brain. BEST BEDTIME SNACKS Foods that are high in carbohydrates and calcium, and medium-to-low in protein also make ideal sleep-inducing bedtime snacks. Some examples: apple pie and ice cream (my favorite) whole-grain cereal with milk hazelnuts and tofu oatmeal and raisin cookies, and a glass of milk peanut butter sandwich, ground sesame seeds (It takes around one hour for the tryptophan in the foods to reach the brain, so don't wait until right before bedtime to have your snack.) http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/t042400.asp Kaivey > > > >> > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading "Get Out of your Mind" and "Happiness Trap". This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act "normal" again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep?> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Bravo for taking on that task regardless of the inner dialogue you were experiencing...you will learn to see that, if you are willing, you can do anything regardless of whether there is some inner chit chat going on... Lets deal with the facts...not judgments...there are no " shouldn'ts " in this world, only WHAT IS...and what you are experiencing currently is some anxiety about your own anxiety... Not a good or a bad, just is...maybe a little discomforting, but nothing life threatening either...do yourself a favor and just let yourself feel it...it's safe...just a feeling...breathe in breathe out " there is nothing to stress me " ...thats not true or you would be calm...your thoughts are what is stressing you...or should I say, your thoughts about certain thoughts Your body is reacting to what you believe is a threat of some sort...that is perfectly normal, and would be abnormal if it wasn't... The error, is that you believe that certain thoughts are " dangerous " and will " take you down " ...obviously not true, as you have had those thoughts have you not? Are you still here? Yes I assume, so untrue...completely untrue There is a great section in ACT for labeling thoughts, feelings, emotions, bodily sensations...it's a great way to cut off the cycle of judgment of certain thoughts...not denying or resisting, just acknowledging them exactly for what they are...I suggest reading it and practicing it.. Best, VC > > > > > > > > > > I have been reading posts for the past few days and finally decided to say something. I have never done any type of online group before. I have been reading " Get Out of your Mind " and " Happiness Trap " . This all makes perfect sense to me and describes what I do to myself but reading and understanding how to practice it are 2 different things. I tend to get anxious and then consequently depressed about my job as a teacher.Then i think i should be able to let go of these thoughts and just act " normal " again and I get more scared when I can't get thoughts to go away. This then keeps me from sleeping which continues a downward spiral. I have just found a therapist who has some ACT experience but have only seen him once. That day I was feeling good so I didn't have a crucial issue to discuss with him, but today I have had a lot of anxiety and am so afraid of not sleeping tonight. Anyone help on how to use some ACT techniques when I get so worked up about not being able to sleep? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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