Re: LIGHTBULB, LIGHTBULB, LIGHTBULB... Notes From a Newcomer

[Guest guest]

Hi Holly!

Welcome to the group hun I'm rather new here myself, but have found this

group to be so fabulous...it's beyond words...honestly and truly.

Your message here is a very familiar one...the lightbulb moment, the feeling

of the sky's opening up and the sunshine shining through at the realization

that not only is the behavior typical among people with this problem...but

it has a name...BPD. I say this with all honesty...I think when I am 100

years old and looking back there are a few moments in my life that I will

remember vividly. Putting a name with this type of behavior makes the very

top of my list. It was a turning point in my life. To people who have

never experienced what we have, it may sound ridiculous....but we have all

had those moments. We stop and say yes...yes...ok...I was right all along..

it WAS that bad...i DO deserve better, and I'M not the sick one! It's sad

that in all these years none of the professionals in your life have been

able to see this for you....but BPD is fairly new, and there are still MANY

therapists out there who still don't recognize it as a real diagnosis. So

many of the symptoms are indicitive of other mental-illnesses (gosh...i hate

calling it that....mental-illness has a certain ring to it that makes you

feel compelled to feel compasion about it)...until alot more research is

done it will probably remain a " back burner " diagnosis.

Nada's have a way of twisting things...they all do it and yours seems like

no exception. They either twist it into something that it never was or deny

it happened all together. They hear what they want and remember what they

want, and their twisted view is the only acceptable one. I'm glad there

are a couple of people outside of your family who have seen the crazy part

of our world. Most of us never experience stuff like that...so hang onto

those moments sweetie...they are few and far between.

I know you say that you were worried at first that maybe you aren't in the

right place because you haven't gone through some of the extreme stuff that

some of the others here have...but the fact that you had that lightbulb

moments speaks volumes that you are in EXACTLY the right place. All of the

things you speak of fit. So I am certain that you are right on the money

with your feelings. BPD is such an ugly thing...and we have all gone through

different degrees of it with the BPD's in our lives...we all have our ups

and our downs. You really can't compare victimization...abuse is abuse and

hurts no matter what degree it may be. Most of us are dealing with mothers

(or Nada's as we call them) with BPD...so the pain is multiplied

exponentially...because when it is a parent that is victimizing a child it

is total betrayal in the eyes of that child. We look around and see how

irrational it is that our mothers aren't like the rest...but they have a way

of making it look like we are the ones that have skewed it...either by how

we have remembered it or because OUR actions have dictated their behavior.

How sick is it that she loves to re-tell the story about the lost mitten? I

know a few months back I had something similar like that happen with my

daughter...she and I had spoken and she requested that I please pick her up

after school. I obliged and was given STRICT instructions by her to not

enter the school and hang around....to come in and get her at 2:25pm. (She

is in middle school and doesn't want mom poking around)...I got there early.

around 2:15pm and decided to crack open a book and wait in the car for 10

minutes...as instructed. Around 2:20pm my cell phone rang and it was the

vice-principal of the school...my daughter was in her office and a total

WRECK because I wasn't there. My daughter insisted that I had probably

forgotten and because she stayed after I would be super ticked. She was

totally inconsolable. I rushed into the school to console her....and I was

a wreck...because I was worried about what kind of signals I had thrown to

her to make her think that I would react that way. I don't think I have

EVER re-told the story to anyone...and if I did, the message was the same..

that I felt HORRIBLE that I would ever make her feel that way. I can't ever

imagine villianizing my child the way that my parents did me...and the way

that your mom did to you. It's ironic because with BPD's it's all about

THEM...yet everything that has ever happened bad is our fault. I know I

find myself very frustrated because it is my PARENTS who have the problem,

yet I am the one who is in counseling to deal with it....it is my husband

who is snoring all night...yet I am the one taking the sleeping pills....KO

s are the maintenance men of life...when something goes wrong it is our

fault and our responsibility to fix it...when something goes right...well

then just duck and cover because it is just a matter of time before that

other shoe drops.

Anyway...i'm rattling...the point is, Welcome to Oz....I wish I could say

that you didn't qualify to be here, but sadly....it sounds like you have

earned your ruby slippers just like the rest of us. (I just wish I could

have dropped a house on the wicked witch first) Keep coming back, keep

posting...you will find the people here are marvelous.

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

-- LIGHTBULB, LIGHTBULB, LIGHTBULB... Notes From a

Newcomer

Hello everyone. My first post, and it¹s an encyclopedia... feel free to

skim...I¹m trying to explain my discovery to myself as much as to anyone

else.

Believe it or not, I am a 38 year old woman who has had a lifetime of

therapy (for depression-related issues) and thought she was ³well-versed² in

all things mood-disordered.... and *just* found out (or think I found out,

on my own) that my mother in all likelihood has BPD. All my life I have been

struggling dearly with this love-hate roller coaster of a relationship. No

therapist has ever been able to help me deal with my mother¹s condition, or

diagnose it, except by telling me to consider breaking all ties. Mom is 66

now, and has refused to see a doctor since my very early childhood (she

went briefly for depression and marriage counseling); therefore she is

undiagnosed, untreated, and I have no ³proof.² God, having ³proof² has

become such a major theme in my life...but it seems I never have enough of

it, at least in her eyes. So. All I have is my half-read copy of ³Stop

Walking On Eggshells² (which I discovered at the bookstore and began reading

- or rather, gobbling - this very day)... and a highlighter pen that is

already out of ink. I have spent the whole night reading, sobbing, laughing,

and gasping...pretty much all at the same time. I just had to reach out to

*someone* immediately, so I went to the back of the book and found this

group on the resource list. I just can¹t believe that what I¹ve been

experiencing since I was born might actually be real...and it even has a

name??? Since this is my first step in ³solving² the mystery that is my

mother, I wanted to share my story with others here, to see if anyone else

has gone through similar things.

My mother has always had an extremely severe temper and an inability to

admit wrongdoing. I have one - ONE - memory of my mother saying the words

³I¹m sorry² to me (when I was about 11, for ³snapping² at me) and I cherish

that memory like a rare diamond. I now realize how unrealistic this is -

even a person who *doesn¹t* have BPD surely has more than one instance of

personal behavior that behooves them to apologize to a loved one. My mother

would sometimes ³show² her apology by acting extra-nice or giving me a treat

- but she only said the words ³I¹m sorry² that one time. I¹ll never know

why, but I¹ll never forget it.

My teachers, apparently, thought I was paranoid. When I lost a mitten (or

whatever), I went into severe panic mode, saying ³My mother is gonna kill

me.² Apparenty, when these teachers met my mother, they said they were

shocked to be greeted by such a charming and utterly delightful woman; from

my behavior, they expected to meet a monster. At least this is the story my

mother loves to tell, over and over again. I don¹t know whether these

conversations actually took place, but it doesn¹t matter. The point is that

a) I *did* have to deal with the disbelief of others, because there

certainly was a ³public mom² and a ³private mom²; and Why on earth would

anyone love to tell a story like that? But she apparently enjoys telling

others how I ³made her out to be a monster.² I guess it is proof of my

³instability² and ³extreme sensitivity.²

I am the only daughter in a blended family. Both parents had sons and were

divorced before getting together and having me. Therefore, all my brothers

are much older and everyone was out of the house (in college) by the time I

was 9. Although my whole family agrees that my mother is mentally ill, and

has experienced her wrath, none of them really had the same experiences as I

did. I was a target like none of them were, and the only one without a

buffer in the house (my brothers are close in age to one another). This

leaves me feeling quite alone... all brothers have ³left the nest,² are

happily married with kids and their own lives...and I cannot seem to start

mine. I can¹t even imagine being married, or trying to be a mother. I¹ve

never been able to form a stable relationship, and have a peculiar penchant

for alcoholics who seem about two inches away from beating the crap out of

me before I finally wake up and dump them. (And as you can see, knowing my

own patterns has not exactly helped me to change them.)

Speaking of marriage... this is beyond belief.... but my parents are still

married. My father, i guess, is codependent, and part of him is addicted to

the abuse. ³I can¹t stand her, she makes my life miserable... but I still

love her² is a frequent refrain. And my mother... my god, she hates (or

behaves as if she hates) my father with a passion that defies exhaustion.

And doesn¹t mind sharing those feelings. I cannot repeat all the names she

has called him, to me, and to him in front of me. Their tug o¹ wars (I play

the role of the rope in these scenarios) have been going on as long as I can

remember. My mother tells me daily that my father is a monster and loves no

one, and was/is a terrible father to me and an abusive husband to her. Yet

she stays. She constantly tries to alienate me from him. He has rules to

follow: He is not ³allowed² to call me when she is unavailable to be part of

the conversation. (This is most of the time, since she also has a sleeping

disorder and keeps the hours of a vampire.)

When my father went into the hospital for open-heart surgery, and I moved in

for a week to help out, the abuse was insane... my father deserved to die,

if I went to the hospital to visit him without her, I was abandoning her and

being a terrible daughter... when ³caught² talking on the phone with a

friend I was treated as if I was guilty of murder... Reading this book, I

was *shocked* to see that one of her most severe episodes may have in fact

been triggered by fear of my father finally leaving her, at last and

forever. When he came home from the hospital, she reportedly tried to

scratch his face. My father now tells me that if i hadn¹t stayed with them

that week, he probably would have died (from stress, lack of care, etc). Um,

yeah. That made me feel reeeeally good. Anyway. I guess my father is no

saint. He has not handled the situation well. But he does his best to

reassure me that my mother loves me as well as she can. He leans on me, and

complains about her behavior, but at the same time tells me to try to

separate her illness from her personality. Mom shows no such ambivalence. My

father is 100% evil incarnate and she never stops talking to me about it. I

am all wrapped up in this - I remind her of him, therefore I am half-evil.

Sometimes an angel. Sometimes ³the spawn of the devil² (an actual name she

called me growing up - and we¹re Jewish!!!! Hello? Is this thing on?).

After a few years of seeing a therapist for my own problems, said therapist

actually met my mother. This doctor, while never mentioning BPD (perhaps she

didn¹t know of it?) later told me: ³I¹ve worked with psychotics, crack

addicts, and paranoid schizophrenics - but no one has *ever* made me feel so

incompetent within five minutes as your mother did. I know all the tricks of

manipulation. It¹s my job. But that woman is brilliant. I can¹t imagine what

life must have been like for you as a child. I¹m so sorry.² Another similar

experience: A dear friend of mine, who was always adventurous in spirit and

self-confident, was about to take a ³flying leap² and move across the

country, just because she wanted to. She has lived in a million places,

enjoys this lifestyle, and always lands on her feet. Her parents are

extremely supportive. The week before she was to leave, my mother was over

visiting. I left them alone together for 10 minutes while I walked my dog. I

came back. My mother left. My friend turned to me and said, ³Oh my god. That

was so weird. In ten minutes your mother had me terrified of moving, and

thinking I was making the worst decision of my life. I started to doubt

everything I thought I knew. How do you even decide what to wear each day?

Your life must have been hell.²

And here¹s the ³crazy² thing. Those two experiences I just described? I

treasured them. I loved every minute of them. I soaked up the validation

like a sponge. I don¹t necessarily want pity (although I admit that

sometimes I do) - but, as I said at the beginning of this tome, I have spent

my life searching for ³proof.² My mother has never been diagnosed with

mental illness. She has never been dangerous to herself or others - not

dangerous physically, at least. She never talks about things that show a

complete break with reality (like Martians in the TV, or whatever) - but

rather twists reality in a way that makes it almost impossible for the other

person to pin down. I have spent my whole life wondering if I am the crazy

one - she is a master gaslighter. Even coming on this site, I read some of

the other posts and thought, ³Do I qualify? My mom has never had problems

with the law, or shown this side of herself in such an unbridled and public

way... will these people think I am ³overly sensitive² as well? I know it¹s

not normal to start calling your daughter a f***ing b*tch when she is eight

years old, but is it really that bad? What about all the good times, when

she supported me completely and acted like my best friend (which every once

in a while, she still does)?²

So you see, the guesswork never ends. I know that no one on this site can

give me an official diagnosis and I hold no one liable, of course. But any

opinions, advice, or experiences would help tremendously. I feel I may be on

the precipice of a whole new reality. And it feels huge. So, I know this was

a novel... apologies from a newbie.

- Holly G.

[Guest guest]

Its ok. I have a BS in psychology. You sort of think, having gotten a good

grade in abnormal psych (where we covered personality disorders) that I

would have had a light bulb moment then, right. So not the case. My mom is

not Gir, Interrupted. Nada does't drink much (but she does start in the

morning on a bad day). Nada doesn't use drugs or sleep with people. Nada

has never been out on a date since my dad died over twenty years ago. It

didn't fit that quick profile. And then even when you do think some sort of

mental illness is there you want it to be something simple. You want it to

be a case of depression that responds well to medication. Or that sort of

thing. Because we love them- and we don't want them to have to live in that

scary world where they trust no one even if it is a world of their own

making. And of course we would like to have hope too. Maybe one day a

couple years from now, we think, she will be all better. It has to get

better. And we can sit and be mother and daughter (or whatever) like I

always wanted and talk about how we overcame this. And maybe then it will

start to be worth it. But then you learn more about it. And there is that

horrible horrible truth. She refuses to even see a counselor or

psychologist- doesn't believe in that voodoo. Nothing is wrong with her.

Its everyone else. And then you think that its not going to get better and

she can't get over it with a little hard work and some medication and you

won't have that mother daugher relationship you always wanted so

desperately. And that is hard. I mean does anyone really want to believe

that?

And plus like you say for those of us who have Nadas that aren't so extreme-

that could fool anyone- you wonder. I never really knew until I had an

opertunity to be around more normal families. Those normal families are

pretty cool. I babysit- or I did for three years in college. the family I

babysat for I thought was amazing. The oldest left for college but stayed

in town and was always glad to hang out with her family and do stuff with

them. The little girl I babysat adored her sister and parents. She would

call her parents probably once or twice a day just to check in and talk to

them. And they weren't push overs either. If she messed up she got scolded

or she got in trouble- no watching too much tv- do your homework, clean your

room, etc. If I had trouble getting her started on a task I would just

remind her that this was something her parents employed me to help her with

or get her to do and how would we explain to her parents that she just

didn't feel like it, etc. It wasn't that she was afraid of them, but that

she wanted aproval or whatever. it was great. They liked to listen to her

when she practiced piano. I love that famly. I want to be like them if we

ever have kids. They had the whole work life balance going on pretty well.

Did people have issues or rough patches- of course. They are people. But

well adjusted people.

And then there are fiance's parents and family and so forth. They have come

down a lot of weekends to help him work on the house- he is doing some work

on it, framing in walls, etc. They seem glad to help. I was amazed. If it

was my nada she would be holding that over my head and not be glad to help.

It would be a sign of my inadequacy that I needed help, etc. But they

didn't resent him for it.

I think you probably just have to trust yourself. Stop guessing, start

knowing. Good luck.

-Ata

>

> Hi Holly!

>

> Welcome to the group hun I'm rather new here myself, but have found

> this

> group to be so fabulous...it's beyond words...honestly and truly.

>

> Your message here is a very familiar one...the lightbulb moment, the

> feeling

> of the sky's opening up and the sunshine shining through at the

> realization

> that not only is the behavior typical among people with this problem...but

> it has a name...BPD. I say this with all honesty...I think when I am 100

> years old and looking back there are a few moments in my life that I will

> remember vividly. Putting a name with this type of behavior makes the very

> top of my list. It was a turning point in my life. To people who have

> never experienced what we have, it may sound ridiculous....but we have all

> had those moments. We stop and say yes...yes...ok...I was right all

> along..

> it WAS that bad...i DO deserve better, and I'M not the sick one! It's sad

> that in all these years none of the professionals in your life have been

> able to see this for you....but BPD is fairly new, and there are still

> MANY

> therapists out there who still don't recognize it as a real diagnosis. So

> many of the symptoms are indicitive of other mental-illnesses (gosh...i

> hate

> calling it that....mental-illness has a certain ring to it that makes you

> feel compelled to feel compasion about it)...until alot more research is

> done it will probably remain a " back burner " diagnosis.

>

> Nada's have a way of twisting things...they all do it and yours seems like

> no exception. They either twist it into something that it never was or

> deny

> it happened all together. They hear what they want and remember what they

> want, and their twisted view is the only acceptable one. I'm glad there

> are a couple of people outside of your family who have seen the crazy part

> of our world. Most of us never experience stuff like that...so hang onto

> those moments sweetie...they are few and far between.

>

> I know you say that you were worried at first that maybe you aren't in the

> right place because you haven't gone through some of the extreme stuff

> that

> some of the others here have...but the fact that you had that lightbulb

> moments speaks volumes that you are in EXACTLY the right place. All of the

> things you speak of fit. So I am certain that you are right on the money

> with your feelings. BPD is such an ugly thing...and we have all gone

> through

> different degrees of it with the BPD's in our lives...we all have our ups

> and our downs. You really can't compare victimization...abuse is abuse and

> hurts no matter what degree it may be. Most of us are dealing with mothers

> (or Nada's as we call them) with BPD...so the pain is multiplied

> exponentially...because when it is a parent that is victimizing a child it

> is total betrayal in the eyes of that child. We look around and see how

> irrational it is that our mothers aren't like the rest...but they have a

> way

> of making it look like we are the ones that have skewed it...either by how

> we have remembered it or because OUR actions have dictated their behavior.

>

> How sick is it that she loves to re-tell the story about the lost mitten?

> I

> know a few months back I had something similar like that happen with my

> daughter...she and I had spoken and she requested that I please pick her

> up

> after school. I obliged and was given STRICT instructions by her to not

> enter the school and hang around....to come in and get her at 2:25pm. (She

> is in middle school and doesn't want mom poking around)...I got there

> early.

> around 2:15pm and decided to crack open a book and wait in the car for 10

> minutes...as instructed. Around 2:20pm my cell phone rang and it was the

> vice-principal of the school...my daughter was in her office and a total

> WRECK because I wasn't there. My daughter insisted that I had probably

> forgotten and because she stayed after I would be super ticked. She was

> totally inconsolable. I rushed into the school to console her....and I was

> a wreck...because I was worried about what kind of signals I had thrown to

> her to make her think that I would react that way. I don't think I have

> EVER re-told the story to anyone...and if I did, the message was the

> same..

> that I felt HORRIBLE that I would ever make her feel that way. I can't

> ever

> imagine villianizing my child the way that my parents did me...and the way

> that your mom did to you. It's ironic because with BPD's it's all about

> THEM...yet everything that has ever happened bad is our fault. I know I

> find myself very frustrated because it is my PARENTS who have the problem,

> yet I am the one who is in counseling to deal with it....it is my husband

> who is snoring all night...yet I am the one taking the sleeping

> pills....KO

> s are the maintenance men of life...when something goes wrong it is our

> fault and our responsibility to fix it...when something goes right...well

> then just duck and cover because it is just a matter of time before that

> other shoe drops.

>

> Anyway...i'm rattling...the point is, Welcome to Oz....I wish I could say

> that you didn't qualify to be here, but sadly....it sounds like you have

> earned your ruby slippers just like the rest of us. (I just wish I could

> have dropped a house on the wicked witch first) Keep coming back, keep

> posting...you will find the people here are marvelous.

>

> Kisses and Nibbles,

> Bunny

>

>

>

> -- LIGHTBULB, LIGHTBULB, LIGHTBULB... Notes From

> a

> Newcomer

>

> Hello everyone. My first post, and it¹s an encyclopedia... feel free to

> skim...I¹m trying to explain my discovery to myself as much as to anyone

> else.

>

> Believe it or not, I am a 38 year old woman who has had a lifetime of

> therapy (for depression-related issues) and thought she was ³well-versed²

> in

> all things mood-disordered.... and *just* found out (or think I found out,

>

> on my own) that my mother in all likelihood has BPD. All my life I have

> been

> struggling dearly with this love-hate roller coaster of a relationship. No

>

> therapist has ever been able to help me deal with my mother¹s condition,

> or

> diagnose it, except by telling me to consider breaking all ties. Mom is 66

>

> now, and has refused to see a doctor since my very early childhood (she

> went briefly for depression and marriage counseling); therefore she is

> undiagnosed, untreated, and I have no ³proof.² God, having ³proof² has

> become such a major theme in my life...but it seems I never have enough of

>

> it, at least in her eyes. So. All I have is my half-read copy of ³Stop

> Walking On Eggshells² (which I discovered at the bookstore and began

> reading

> - or rather, gobbling - this very day)... and a highlighter pen that is

> already out of ink. I have spent the whole night reading, sobbing,

> laughing,

> and gasping...pretty much all at the same time. I just had to reach out to

>

> *someone* immediately, so I went to the back of the book and found this

> group on the resource list. I just can¹t believe that what I¹ve been

> experiencing since I was born might actually be real...and it even has a

> name??? Since this is my first step in ³solving² the mystery that is my

> mother, I wanted to share my story with others here, to see if anyone else

>

> has gone through similar things.

>

> My mother has always had an extremely severe temper and an inability to

> admit wrongdoing. I have one - ONE - memory of my mother saying the words

> ³I¹m sorry² to me (when I was about 11, for ³snapping² at me) and I

> cherish

> that memory like a rare diamond. I now realize how unrealistic this is -

> even a person who *doesn¹t* have BPD surely has more than one instance of

> personal behavior that behooves them to apologize to a loved one. My

> mother

> would sometimes ³show² her apology by acting extra-nice or giving me a

> treat

> - but she only said the words ³I¹m sorry² that one time. I¹ll never know

> why, but I¹ll never forget it.

>

> My teachers, apparently, thought I was paranoid. When I lost a mitten (or

> whatever), I went into severe panic mode, saying ³My mother is gonna kill

> me.² Apparenty, when these teachers met my mother, they said they were

> shocked to be greeted by such a charming and utterly delightful woman;

> from

> my behavior, they expected to meet a monster. At least this is the story

> my

> mother loves to tell, over and over again. I don¹t know whether these

> conversations actually took place, but it doesn¹t matter. The point is

> that

> a) I *did* have to deal with the disbelief of others, because there

> certainly was a ³public mom² and a ³private mom²; and Why on earth

> would

> anyone love to tell a story like that? But she apparently enjoys telling

> others how I ³made her out to be a monster.² I guess it is proof of my

> ³instability² and ³extreme sensitivity.²

>

> I am the only daughter in a blended family. Both parents had sons and were

>

> divorced before getting together and having me. Therefore, all my brothers

>

> are much older and everyone was out of the house (in college) by the time

> I

> was 9. Although my whole family agrees that my mother is mentally ill, and

>

> has experienced her wrath, none of them really had the same experiences as

> I

> did. I was a target like none of them were, and the only one without a

> buffer in the house (my brothers are close in age to one another). This

> leaves me feeling quite alone... all brothers have ³left the nest,² are

> happily married with kids and their own lives...and I cannot seem to start

>

> mine. I can¹t even imagine being married, or trying to be a mother. I¹ve

> never been able to form a stable relationship, and have a peculiar

> penchant

> for alcoholics who seem about two inches away from beating the crap out of

>

> me before I finally wake up and dump them. (And as you can see, knowing my

>

> own patterns has not exactly helped me to change them.)

>

> Speaking of marriage... this is beyond belief.... but my parents are still

>

> married. My father, i guess, is codependent, and part of him is addicted

> to

> the abuse. ³I can¹t stand her, she makes my life miserable... but I still

> love her² is a frequent refrain. And my mother... my god, she hates (or

> behaves as if she hates) my father with a passion that defies exhaustion.

> And doesn¹t mind sharing those feelings. I cannot repeat all the names she

>

> has called him, to me, and to him in front of me. Their tug o¹ wars (I

> play

> the role of the rope in these scenarios) have been going on as long as I

> can

> remember. My mother tells me daily that my father is a monster and loves

> no

> one, and was/is a terrible father to me and an abusive husband to her. Yet

>

> she stays. She constantly tries to alienate me from him. He has rules to

> follow: He is not ³allowed² to call me when she is unavailable to be part

> of

> the conversation. (This is most of the time, since she also has a sleeping

>

> disorder and keeps the hours of a vampire.)

>

> When my father went into the hospital for open-heart surgery, and I moved

> in

> for a week to help out, the abuse was insane... my father deserved to die,

>

> if I went to the hospital to visit him without her, I was abandoning her

> and

> being a terrible daughter... when ³caught² talking on the phone with a

> friend I was treated as if I was guilty of murder... Reading this book, I

> was *shocked* to see that one of her most severe episodes may have in fact

>

> been triggered by fear of my father finally leaving her, at last and

> forever. When he came home from the hospital, she reportedly tried to

> scratch his face. My father now tells me that if i hadn¹t stayed with them

>

> that week, he probably would have died (from stress, lack of care, etc).

> Um,

> yeah. That made me feel reeeeally good. Anyway. I guess my father is no

> saint. He has not handled the situation well. But he does his best to

> reassure me that my mother loves me as well as she can. He leans on me,

> and

> complains about her behavior, but at the same time tells me to try to

> separate her illness from her personality. Mom shows no such ambivalence.

> My

> father is 100% evil incarnate and she never stops talking to me about it.

> I

> am all wrapped up in this - I remind her of him, therefore I am half-evil.

>

> Sometimes an angel. Sometimes ³the spawn of the devil² (an actual name she

>

> called me growing up - and we¹re Jewish!!!! Hello? Is this thing on?).

>

> After a few years of seeing a therapist for my own problems, said

> therapist

> actually met my mother. This doctor, while never mentioning BPD (perhaps

> she

> didn¹t know of it?) later told me: ³I¹ve worked with psychotics, crack

> addicts, and paranoid schizophrenics - but no one has *ever* made me feel

> so

> incompetent within five minutes as your mother did. I know all the tricks

> of

> manipulation. It¹s my job. But that woman is brilliant. I can¹t imagine

> what

> life must have been like for you as a child. I¹m so sorry.² Another

> similar

> experience: A dear friend of mine, who was always adventurous in spirit

> and

> self-confident, was about to take a ³flying leap² and move across the

> country, just because she wanted to. She has lived in a million places,

> enjoys this lifestyle, and always lands on her feet. Her parents are

> extremely supportive. The week before she was to leave, my mother was over

>

> visiting. I left them alone together for 10 minutes while I walked my dog.

> I

> came back. My mother left. My friend turned to me and said, ³Oh my god.

> That

> was so weird. In ten minutes your mother had me terrified of moving, and

> thinking I was making the worst decision of my life. I started to doubt

> everything I thought I knew. How do you even decide what to wear each day?

>

> Your life must have been hell.²

>

> And here¹s the ³crazy² thing. Those two experiences I just described? I

> treasured them. I loved every minute of them. I soaked up the validation

> like a sponge. I don¹t necessarily want pity (although I admit that

> sometimes I do) - but, as I said at the beginning of this tome, I have

> spent

> my life searching for ³proof.² My mother has never been diagnosed with

> mental illness. She has never been dangerous to herself or others - not

> dangerous physically, at least. She never talks about things that show a

> complete break with reality (like Martians in the TV, or whatever) - but

> rather twists reality in a way that makes it almost impossible for the

> other

> person to pin down. I have spent my whole life wondering if I am the crazy

>

> one - she is a master gaslighter. Even coming on this site, I read some of

>

> the other posts and thought, ³Do I qualify? My mom has never had problems

> with the law, or shown this side of herself in such an unbridled and

> public

> way... will these people think I am ³overly sensitive² as well? I know

> it¹s

> not normal to start calling your daughter a f***ing b*tch when she is

> eight

> years old, but is it really that bad? What about all the good times, when

> she supported me completely and acted like my best friend (which every

> once

> in a while, she still does)?²

>

> So you see, the guesswork never ends. I know that no one on this site can

> give me an official diagnosis and I hold no one liable, of course. But any

>

> opinions, advice, or experiences would help tremendously. I feel I may be

> on

> the precipice of a whole new reality. And it feels huge. So, I know this

> was

> a novel... apologies from a newbie.

>

> - Holly G.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

I think the first step is becoming aware. When one is conditioned to

abuse it becomes normal but for some there is a gradual awakening

that takes place and our eyes begin to open as if we have been in a

deep sleep. In a way, we have.

Clarity begins to replace confusion and truth begins to replace

illusion. The diagnosis, the fact that there is a name for the

toxicity that has infected us via nada, brings validation. And with

this truth and validation comes strength and power. It allows us a

breathing space where we can take a moment to see what has been

happening to us, to know we have been wronged.

And with each passing moment, it all falls into place and we can no

longer pretend that it is okay to be treated that way. Something

crosses over in us and we can no longer tolerate the abuse. We

become ready to be healed and begin the journey to peacefulness.

We have been brainwashed, like a cult member, only the cult is our

parent and like a cult, they don't like us realizing that we don't

need them anymore, that we have the right and ability to a life free

of abuse. They want us to believe the lies that we owe them our

life, that because they are so screwed up that we were put on this

earth to sacrifice our life to fulfill their sick needs. NOT SO! But

for many of us, that is what we did for too long. As children we

didn't have a choice. We do now.

It is like the husband who beats his wife, telling her she is

nothing, hoping she will believe it forever so that he can have an

outlet to dump all his self loathing and frustration. Would we tell

a battered wife to stay because she is obligated? No, so why do we

feel we should stay and take it from a parent? It serves no one,

least of all us.

I used to read a page in Understanding the Borderline Mother over

and over and it was about the characteristics of a healthy mother

vs. a BP mother. It helped put things back in perspective when I got

lost in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)

There was a part of me, when I first awakened from the FOG, that

didn't consider ending contact an option. It never occurred to me

because I was so enmeshed with nada, feeling it was my

responsibility to be her emotional punching bag, to help her. (News

flash: Nada didn't want help, she wanted prey to feast upon, to

unload her toxic emotions)

Reading books on bpd, posting to this board and seeing a therapist

all help one to become un-enmeshed and the more we pull away and

fill our selves with the truth, the stronger we become until one day

we won't be able to believe that we took the abuse. We come full

circle. It is possible, I did it and so have many on this board.

When I was a teenager I remember reading a book called Crazy for

God, about a member of the Moonies cult who was very brainwashed and

his family kidnapped him and put him in a hotel room for days and

days while they deprogrammed him. I read that book over and over and

nada used to ask me why I would be so interested in such a book.

Gee, I dunno.

[Guest guest]

Hi Holly, Welcome to the group. It sounds like you will fit in good

here. I am glad you wrote your story. I hope you find some answers

and comfort here. Love Lizzy

>

> Hello everyone. My first post, and it¹s an encyclopedia... feel

free to

> skim...I¹m trying to explain my discovery to myself as much as to

anyone

> else.

>

> Believe it or not, I am a 38 year old woman who has had a lifetime

of

> therapy (for depression-related issues) and thought she was ³well-

versed² in

> all things mood-disordered.... and *just* found out (or think I

found out,

> on my own) that my mother in all likelihood has BPD. All my life I

have been

> struggling dearly with this love-hate roller coaster of a

relationship. No

> therapist has ever been able to help me deal with my mother¹s

condition, or

> diagnose it, except by telling me to consider breaking all ties.

Mom is 66

> now, and has refused to see a doctor since my very early

childhood (she

> went briefly for depression and marriage counseling); therefore

she is

> undiagnosed, untreated, and I have no ³proof.² God, having ³proof²

has

> become such a major theme in my life...but it seems I never have

enough of

> it, at least in her eyes. So. All I have is my half-read copy of

³Stop

> Walking On Eggshells² (which I discovered at the bookstore and

began reading

> - or rather, gobbling - this very day)... and a highlighter pen

that is

> already out of ink. I have spent the whole night reading, sobbing,

laughing,

> and gasping...pretty much all at the same time. I just had to

reach out to

> *someone* immediately, so I went to the back of the book and found

this

> group on the resource list. I just can¹t believe that what I¹ve

been

> experiencing since I was born might actually be real...and it even

has a

> name??? Since this is my first step in ³solving² the mystery that

is my

> mother, I wanted to share my story with others here, to see if

anyone else

> has gone through similar things.

>

> My mother has always had an extremely severe temper and an

inability to

> admit wrongdoing. I have one - ONE - memory of my mother saying

the words

> ³I¹m sorry² to me (when I was about 11, for ³snapping² at me) and

I cherish

> that memory like a rare diamond. I now realize how unrealistic

this is -

> even a person who *doesn¹t* have BPD surely has more than one

instance of

> personal behavior that behooves them to apologize to a loved one.

My mother

> would sometimes ³show² her apology by acting extra-nice or giving

me a treat

> - but she only said the words ³I¹m sorry² that one time. I¹ll

never know

> why, but I¹ll never forget it.

>

> My teachers, apparently, thought I was paranoid. When I lost a

mitten (or

> whatever), I went into severe panic mode, saying ³My mother is

gonna kill

> me.² Apparenty, when these teachers met my mother, they said they

were

> shocked to be greeted by such a charming and utterly delightful

woman; from

> my behavior, they expected to meet a monster. At least this is the

story my

> mother loves to tell, over and over again. I don¹t know whether

these

> conversations actually took place, but it doesn¹t matter. The

point is that

> a) I *did* have to deal with the disbelief of others, because there

> certainly was a ³public mom² and a ³private mom²; and Why on

earth would

> anyone love to tell a story like that? But she apparently enjoys

telling

> others how I ³made her out to be a monster.² I guess it is proof

of my

> ³instability² and ³extreme sensitivity.²

>

> I am the only daughter in a blended family. Both parents had sons

and were

> divorced before getting together and having me. Therefore, all my

brothers

> are much older and everyone was out of the house (in college) by

the time I

> was 9. Although my whole family agrees that my mother is mentally

ill, and

> has experienced her wrath, none of them really had the same

experiences as I

> did. I was a target like none of them were, and the only one

without a

> buffer in the house (my brothers are close in age to one another).

This

> leaves me feeling quite alone... all brothers have ³left the

nest,² are

> happily married with kids and their own lives...and I cannot seem

to start

> mine. I can¹t even imagine being married, or trying to be a

mother. I¹ve

> never been able to form a stable relationship, and have a peculiar

penchant

> for alcoholics who seem about two inches away from beating the

crap out of

> me before I finally wake up and dump them. (And as you can see,

knowing my

> own patterns has not exactly helped me to change them.)

>

> Speaking of marriage... this is beyond belief.... but my parents

are still

> married. My father, i guess, is codependent, and part of him is

addicted to

> the abuse. ³I can¹t stand her, she makes my life miserable... but

I still

> love her² is a frequent refrain. And my mother... my god, she

hates (or

> behaves as if she hates) my father with a passion that defies

exhaustion.

> And doesn¹t mind sharing those feelings. I cannot repeat all the

names she

> has called him, to me, and to him in front of me. Their tug o¹

wars (I play

> the role of the rope in these scenarios) have been going on as

long as I can

> remember. My mother tells me daily that my father is a monster and

loves no

> one, and was/is a terrible father to me and an abusive husband to

her. Yet

> she stays. She constantly tries to alienate me from him. He has

rules to

> follow: He is not ³allowed² to call me when she is unavailable to

be part of

> the conversation. (This is most of the time, since she also has a

sleeping

> disorder and keeps the hours of a vampire.)

>

> When my father went into the hospital for open-heart surgery, and

I moved in

> for a week to help out, the abuse was insane... my father deserved

to die,

> if I went to the hospital to visit him without her, I was

abandoning her and

> being a terrible daughter... when ³caught² talking on the phone

with a

> friend I was treated as if I was guilty of murder... Reading

this book, I

> was *shocked* to see that one of her most severe episodes may have

in fact

> been triggered by fear of my father finally leaving her, at last

and

> forever. When he came home from the hospital, she reportedly tried

to

> scratch his face. My father now tells me that if i hadn¹t stayed

with them

> that week, he probably would have died (from stress, lack of care,

etc). Um,

> yeah. That made me feel reeeeally good. Anyway. I guess my father

is no

> saint. He has not handled the situation well. But he does his best

to

> reassure me that my mother loves me as well as she can. He leans

on me, and

> complains about her behavior, but at the same time tells me to try

to

> separate her illness from her personality. Mom shows no such

ambivalence. My

> father is 100% evil incarnate and she never stops talking to me

about it. I

> am all wrapped up in this - I remind her of him, therefore I am

half-evil.

> Sometimes an angel. Sometimes ³the spawn of the devil² (an actual

name she

> called me growing up - and we¹re Jewish!!!! Hello? Is this thing

on?).

>

> After a few years of seeing a therapist for my own problems, said

therapist

> actually met my mother. This doctor, while never mentioning BPD

(perhaps she

> didn¹t know of it?) later told me: ³I¹ve worked with psychotics,

crack

> addicts, and paranoid schizophrenics - but no one has *ever* made

me feel so

> incompetent within five minutes as your mother did. I know all the

tricks of

> manipulation. It¹s my job. But that woman is brilliant. I can¹t

imagine what

> life must have been like for you as a child. I¹m so sorry.²

Another similar

> experience: A dear friend of mine, who was always adventurous in

spirit and

> self-confident, was about to take a ³flying leap² and move across

the

> country, just because she wanted to. She has lived in a million

places,

> enjoys this lifestyle, and always lands on her feet. Her parents

are

> extremely supportive. The week before she was to leave, my mother

was over

> visiting. I left them alone together for 10 minutes while I walked

my dog. I

> came back. My mother left. My friend turned to me and said, ³Oh my

god. That

> was so weird. In ten minutes your mother had me terrified of

moving, and

> thinking I was making the worst decision of my life. I started to

doubt

> everything I thought I knew. How do you even decide what to wear

each day?

> Your life must have been hell.²

>

> And here¹s the ³crazy² thing. Those two experiences I just

described? I

> treasured them. I loved every minute of them. I soaked up the

validation

> like a sponge. I don¹t necessarily want pity (although I admit that

> sometimes I do) - but, as I said at the beginning of this tome, I

have spent

> my life searching for ³proof.² My mother has never been diagnosed

with

> mental illness. She has never been dangerous to herself or others -

not

> dangerous physically, at least. She never talks about things that

show a

> complete break with reality (like Martians in the TV, or

whatever) - but

> rather twists reality in a way that makes it almost impossible for

the other

> person to pin down. I have spent my whole life wondering if I am

the crazy

> one - she is a master gaslighter. Even coming on this site, I read

some of

> the other posts and thought, ³Do I qualify? My mom has never had

problems

> with the law, or shown this side of herself in such an unbridled

and public

> way... will these people think I am ³overly sensitive² as well? I

know it¹s

> not normal to start calling your daughter a f***ing b*tch when

she is eight

> years old, but is it really that bad? What about all the good

times, when

> she supported me completely and acted like my best friend (which

every once

> in a while, she still does)?²

>

> So you see, the guesswork never ends. I know that no one on this

site can

> give me an official diagnosis and I hold no one liable, of course.

But any

> opinions, advice, or experiences would help tremendously. I feel I

may be on

> the precipice of a whole new reality. And it feels huge. So, I

know this was

> a novel... apologies from a newbie.

>

> - Holly G.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

THANK YOU!!! Your words of welcome mean so, so much to me. So, I

finished SWOE and just bought Understanding the Borderline Mother.

It's interesting... I'm going through stages of complete recognition,

denial, and last but not least, paranoia. I'm learning that all

children react to having a BPD parent differently. Some suck it all

in, others rebel. I did both. So my new question is... Did any of you

out there, when you first began learning about the problem, start

getting scared that maybe you inherited BPD yourself?

I'm looking back at my patterns, and I've been through stages in my

life where I was an absolute holy terror. As a little girl I had

tantrum problems; my adolescence was pretty much a nightmare.

When I went away to college I felt a million times better, but still

had problems with stuff like bingeing and purging. I vowed to myself

that after college I would not spend a single night in my parents'

home - and I kept that vow, got my own place during graduation...but I

did move back to the same city as I grew up... and through my early

30s off and on, had problems with acting out (some drug use, drinking

too much, cry-for-help suicide attempts, etc.) I remember one

therapist telling me: " You shouldn't have to scream so loud for your

parents to hear you. "

In any event, as I've gotten older I've gotten way better - through

therapy, and simply through growing up. I don't feel the craving

for attention as I used to, and some of the stunts I pulled seem as if

they were done by a totally different person! I can't even imagine

being that much of a " drama queen " again. It's simply too exhausting.

There's just one area I still worry about...relationships. A few

years ago I had a fiance and we moved in together (our subsequent

breakup was mutual). He was very quiet and somewhat passive-agressive

(sometimes just passive-passive). And at times, I found myself acting

just like.... horrors....my mother. It still gives me shivers to think

about it. But I would indeed have crazy temper tantrums trying to get

a rise out of him. I always apologized, and we worked through it

together, and when we finally broke up it was for different reasons,

and we have in fact stayed friends.

So now I wonder... was it the intimacy that scared the crap out of me?

(I was SO relieved when we decided not to get married.) Was it simply

that this was the closest to marriage i had ever come, and so I acted

like my " role model " ? Or is it possible that I actually have BPD

traits myself? The thought of turning into my mother TERRIFIES me. I

could never live my life trapped inside a head like hers. She lives in

a non-stop nightmare from which she will never wake. Sometimes I feel

I am avoiding marriage and children just to make absolutely sure I

never turn into her. If I live alone forever, I don't have to worry

about it, right? Um... did I also mention I'm somewhat of a hermit?

So basically, I guess what I'm asking is: How do you tell the

difference between fleas (just learned that one) and inheriting the

actual problem? Not looking for therapy or anything...I've had plenty

of it... but has anyone else experienced this kind of fear? How do you

deal with it? How do you tell the difference between being a

rebellious and troubled KO and having the illness?

Thank heaven for you all, my new friends... just having someone to

type this to is a godsend. I'm absorbing all this brand new info at

once and having a million different feelings at the same time! Bless

you for listening!

Holly G

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for saying this so beautifully. You couldn't have any better

described major parts of my journey. I had " Crazy for God " -type

fantasies, too.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- cre8within wrote:

> Hi there,

>

> I think the first step is becoming aware. When one is conditioned to

> abuse it becomes normal but for some there is a gradual awakening

> that takes place and our eyes begin to open as if we have been in a

> deep sleep. In a way, we have.

>

> Clarity begins to replace confusion and truth begins to replace

> illusion. The diagnosis, the fact that there is a name for the

> toxicity that has infected us via nada, brings validation. And with

> this truth and validation comes strength and power. It allows us a

> breathing space where we can take a moment to see what has been

> happening to us, to know we have been wronged.

>

> And with each passing moment, it all falls into place and we can no

> longer pretend that it is okay to be treated that way. Something

> crosses over in us and we can no longer tolerate the abuse. We

> become ready to be healed and begin the journey to peacefulness.

>

> We have been brainwashed, like a cult member, only the cult is our

> parent and like a cult, they don't like us realizing that we don't

> need them anymore, that we have the right and ability to a life free

> of abuse. They want us to believe the lies that we owe them our

> life, that because they are so screwed up that we were put on this

> earth to sacrifice our life to fulfill their sick needs. NOT SO! But

> for many of us, that is what we did for too long. As children we

> didn't have a choice. We do now.

>

> It is like the husband who beats his wife, telling her she is

> nothing, hoping she will believe it forever so that he can have an

> outlet to dump all his self loathing and frustration. Would we tell

> a battered wife to stay because she is obligated? No, so why do we

> feel we should stay and take it from a parent? It serves no one,

> least of all us.

>

> I used to read a page in Understanding the Borderline Mother over

> and over and it was about the characteristics of a healthy mother

> vs. a BP mother. It helped put things back in perspective when I got

> lost in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)

>

> There was a part of me, when I first awakened from the FOG, that

> didn't consider ending contact an option. It never occurred to me

> because I was so enmeshed with nada, feeling it was my

> responsibility to be her emotional punching bag, to help her. (News

> flash: Nada didn't want help, she wanted prey to feast upon, to

> unload her toxic emotions)

>

> Reading books on bpd, posting to this board and seeing a therapist

> all help one to become un-enmeshed and the more we pull away and

> fill our selves with the truth, the stronger we become until one day

> we won't be able to believe that we took the abuse. We come full

> circle. It is possible, I did it and so have many on this board.

>

> When I was a teenager I remember reading a book called Crazy for

> God, about a member of the Moonies cult who was very brainwashed and

> his family kidnapped him and put him in a hotel room for days and

> days while they deprogrammed him. I read that book over and over and

> nada used to ask me why I would be so interested in such a book.

> Gee, I dunno.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I can honestly say that I've spent the better part of my life

wondering if I wasn't the crazy one. Having someone love you one

minute and hate you the next will do that to anybody. I remember

arguing with my nada and being completely unable to recall whether or

not I was right or just being childish. Believe me, that messed me up

pretty hardcore.

Personally, I find that the hardest part of normal social

functioning is with friends. I just never know what to say, how to

act, or anything. I always feel like I'm being innappropriate or out-

of-line. I've never had that problem with my more " serious "

relationships, I guess because I always figured that if I screwed up

this one, another would just come along. I've finally found someone

who's not letting me push him away. But that's a whole other can of

worms.

Anyways. The thing is, I figure that the best determining factor

in whether or not you've got it is that you noticed when you started

acting like your nada. You saw it happening, and you were able to

stop it, or at least recognize that it wasn't how you were supposed

to be acting. My very favorite therapist told me that the best test

of sanity is whether or not you question, because crazy people never

doubt their sanity. I've been clinging to that for some six years,

now.

We've all got our little fleas. But we can get over them. We can

heal and recover. And you deserve to heal and recover and be happy. I

truly believe you will find that someday.

Neko Jaimie

[Guest guest]

Neko,

Thank you so much for your kind words! And congratulations on finding

someone who " won't let you push him away " - I'm very familiar with

that can of worms, obviously.

What you said about questioning sanity... very helpful. As I read and

think, and think and read, and think some more, I realize that my nada

would never, ever devote so much time to introspection, or working on

herself. She waits for others to change, or tries to beat them into

submission, blames everyone else for her misery, and resists anything

that could possibly be helpful. The other thing that shores me up at

least a little, is that my nada has gotten worse and worse with age...

like a caricature... while my dramatic tendencies have gotten less and

less the farther away I get from my own childhood.

I went from being terrified of her as a little kid, to resentment as a

teen.. I guess, if someone tells you that you " were a waste of nine

hours of labor " often enough, eventually you say to yourself " oh screw

it, i may as well prove her right. " So I had these periods of

rebellion, alternating with intense guilt and trying to be the best

daughter in the world. Now, maybe, now that I have found an answer

that makes sense, at last I will stop defining myself through her

eyes. I don't have to be the worst or the best daughter, or the worst

or the best anything. Maybe I can just be me.

Thanks for the faith and support - right back atcha...

HG

[Guest guest]

Neko , My older aunt and I go back and forth with each other

wondering, did we do something are we the crazy ones here? I can

understand you completely. It always seems that no matter what, they

hurt you and they always make it out ahead. I don't know how, it's

like they have some sick intuition of how to hurt the most

efficiently and get away with it. My aunt, my husband and my self

have all lost friends through this whole situation and it leave us

feeling confused. My nada is very good at using God and money to

control others so she will buy them large gifts or tell them how

good of a person she is and then they all end up going to church

together and before you know it I am questioning myself again. It's

a never ending cycle but in between I recall the things she has done

that keeps me grounded and also other people who have had encounters

with her who were not fooled make comments to me. That also gives me

a good laugh and reminds me I am not alone and it's not just me!

Love Lizzy

>

> I can honestly say that I've spent the better part of my life

> wondering if I wasn't the crazy one. Having someone love you one

> minute and hate you the next will do that to anybody. I remember

> arguing with my nada and being completely unable to recall whether

or

> not I was right or just being childish. Believe me, that messed me

up

> pretty hardcore.

> Personally, I find that the hardest part of normal social

> functioning is with friends. I just never know what to say, how to

> act, or anything. I always feel like I'm being innappropriate or

out-

> of-line. I've never had that problem with my more " serious "

> relationships, I guess because I always figured that if I screwed

up

> this one, another would just come along. I've finally found

someone

> who's not letting me push him away. But that's a whole other can

of

> worms.

> Anyways. The thing is, I figure that the best determining

factor

> in whether or not you've got it is that you noticed when you

started

> acting like your nada. You saw it happening, and you were able to

> stop it, or at least recognize that it wasn't how you were

supposed

> to be acting. My very favorite therapist told me that the best

test

> of sanity is whether or not you question, because crazy people

never

> doubt their sanity. I've been clinging to that for some six years,

> now.

> We've all got our little fleas. But we can get over them. We

can

> heal and recover. And you deserve to heal and recover and be

happy. I

> truly believe you will find that someday.

>

> Neko Jaimie

>

[Guest guest]

" I am not alone and it's not just me! "

Thanks, Lizzy. I'm still getting used to the idea.

Neko Jaimie

[Guest guest]

Holly,

I just read this post and I started to cry. I also just finished

reading " Stop Walking on Eggshells " on Sunday. Except for the fact

that I am an only child and my parents were divorced when i was 3, I

can totally relate to your story. Your mother sounds like my mother.

Thank you for posting your story!!!

>

> Hello everyone. My first post, and it¹s an encyclopedia... feel

free to

> skim...I¹m trying to explain my discovery to myself as much as to

anyone

> else.

>

> Believe it or not, I am a 38 year old woman who has had a lifetime

of

> therapy (for depression-related issues) and thought she was ³well-

versed² in

> all things mood-disordered.... and *just* found out (or think I

found out,

> on my own) that my mother in all likelihood has BPD. All my life I

have been

> struggling dearly with this love-hate roller coaster of a

relationship. No

> therapist has ever been able to help me deal with my mother¹s

condition, or

> diagnose it, except by telling me to consider breaking all ties.

Mom is 66

> now, and has refused to see a doctor since my very early

childhood (she

> went briefly for depression and marriage counseling); therefore

she is

> undiagnosed, untreated, and I have no ³proof.² God, having ³proof²

has

> become such a major theme in my life...but it seems I never have

enough of

> it, at least in her eyes. So. All I have is my half-read copy of

³Stop

> Walking On Eggshells² (which I discovered at the bookstore and

began reading

> - or rather, gobbling - this very day)... and a highlighter pen

that is

> already out of ink. I have spent the whole night reading, sobbing,

laughing,

> and gasping...pretty much all at the same time. I just had to

reach out to

> *someone* immediately, so I went to the back of the book and found

this

> group on the resource list. I just can¹t believe that what I¹ve

been

> experiencing since I was born might actually be real...and it even

has a

> name??? Since this is my first step in ³solving² the mystery that

is my

> mother, I wanted to share my story with others here, to see if

anyone else

> has gone through similar things.

>

> My mother has always had an extremely severe temper and an

inability to

> admit wrongdoing. I have one - ONE - memory of my mother saying

the words

> ³I¹m sorry² to me (when I was about 11, for ³snapping² at me) and

I cherish

> that memory like a rare diamond. I now realize how unrealistic

this is -

> even a person who *doesn¹t* have BPD surely has more than one

instance of

> personal behavior that behooves them to apologize to a loved one.

My mother

> would sometimes ³show² her apology by acting extra-nice or giving

me a treat

> - but she only said the words ³I¹m sorry² that one time. I¹ll

never know

> why, but I¹ll never forget it.

>

> My teachers, apparently, thought I was paranoid. When I lost a

mitten (or

> whatever), I went into severe panic mode, saying ³My mother is

gonna kill

> me.² Apparenty, when these teachers met my mother, they said they

were

> shocked to be greeted by such a charming and utterly delightful

woman; from

> my behavior, they expected to meet a monster. At least this is the

story my

> mother loves to tell, over and over again. I don¹t know whether

these

> conversations actually took place, but it doesn¹t matter. The

point is that

> a) I *did* have to deal with the disbelief of others, because there

> certainly was a ³public mom² and a ³private mom²; and Why on

earth would

> anyone love to tell a story like that? But she apparently enjoys

telling

> others how I ³made her out to be a monster.² I guess it is proof

of my

> ³instability² and ³extreme sensitivity.²

>

> I am the only daughter in a blended family. Both parents had sons

and were

> divorced before getting together and having me. Therefore, all my

brothers

> are much older and everyone was out of the house (in college) by

the time I

> was 9. Although my whole family agrees that my mother is mentally

ill, and

> has experienced her wrath, none of them really had the same

experiences as I

> did. I was a target like none of them were, and the only one

without a

> buffer in the house (my brothers are close in age to one another).

This

> leaves me feeling quite alone... all brothers have ³left the

nest,² are

> happily married with kids and their own lives...and I cannot seem

to start

> mine. I can¹t even imagine being married, or trying to be a

mother. I¹ve

> never been able to form a stable relationship, and have a peculiar

penchant

> for alcoholics who seem about two inches away from beating the

crap out of

> me before I finally wake up and dump them. (And as you can see,

knowing my

> own patterns has not exactly helped me to change them.)

>

> Speaking of marriage... this is beyond belief.... but my parents

are still

> married. My father, i guess, is codependent, and part of him is

addicted to

> the abuse. ³I can¹t stand her, she makes my life miserable... but

I still

> love her² is a frequent refrain. And my mother... my god, she

hates (or

> behaves as if she hates) my father with a passion that defies

exhaustion.

> And doesn¹t mind sharing those feelings. I cannot repeat all the

names she

> has called him, to me, and to him in front of me. Their tug o¹

wars (I play

> the role of the rope in these scenarios) have been going on as

long as I can

> remember. My mother tells me daily that my father is a monster and

loves no

> one, and was/is a terrible father to me and an abusive husband to

her. Yet

> she stays. She constantly tries to alienate me from him. He has

rules to

> follow: He is not ³allowed² to call me when she is unavailable to

be part of

> the conversation. (This is most of the time, since she also has a

sleeping

> disorder and keeps the hours of a vampire.)

>

> When my father went into the hospital for open-heart surgery, and

I moved in

> for a week to help out, the abuse was insane... my father deserved

to die,

> if I went to the hospital to visit him without her, I was

abandoning her and

> being a terrible daughter... when ³caught² talking on the phone

with a

> friend I was treated as if I was guilty of murder... Reading

this book, I

> was *shocked* to see that one of her most severe episodes may have

in fact

> been triggered by fear of my father finally leaving her, at last

and

> forever. When he came home from the hospital, she reportedly tried

to

> scratch his face. My father now tells me that if i hadn¹t stayed

with them

> that week, he probably would have died (from stress, lack of care,

etc). Um,

> yeah. That made me feel reeeeally good. Anyway. I guess my father

is no

> saint. He has not handled the situation well. But he does his best

to

> reassure me that my mother loves me as well as she can. He leans

on me, and

> complains about her behavior, but at the same time tells me to try

to

> separate her illness from her personality. Mom shows no such

ambivalence. My

> father is 100% evil incarnate and she never stops talking to me

about it. I

> am all wrapped up in this - I remind her of him, therefore I am

half-evil.

> Sometimes an angel. Sometimes ³the spawn of the devil² (an actual

name she

> called me growing up - and we¹re Jewish!!!! Hello? Is this thing

on?).

>

> After a few years of seeing a therapist for my own problems, said

therapist

> actually met my mother. This doctor, while never mentioning BPD

(perhaps she

> didn¹t know of it?) later told me: ³I¹ve worked with psychotics,

crack

> addicts, and paranoid schizophrenics - but no one has *ever* made

me feel so

> incompetent within five minutes as your mother did. I know all the

tricks of

> manipulation. It¹s my job. But that woman is brilliant. I can¹t

imagine what

> life must have been like for you as a child. I¹m so sorry.²

Another similar

> experience: A dear friend of mine, who was always adventurous in

spirit and

> self-confident, was about to take a ³flying leap² and move across

the

> country, just because she wanted to. She has lived in a million

places,

> enjoys this lifestyle, and always lands on her feet. Her parents

are

> extremely supportive. The week before she was to leave, my mother

was over

> visiting. I left them alone together for 10 minutes while I walked

my dog. I

> came back. My mother left. My friend turned to me and said, ³Oh my

god. That

> was so weird. In ten minutes your mother had me terrified of

moving, and

> thinking I was making the worst decision of my life. I started to

doubt

> everything I thought I knew. How do you even decide what to wear

each day?

> Your life must have been hell.²

>

> And here¹s the ³crazy² thing. Those two experiences I just

described? I

> treasured them. I loved every minute of them. I soaked up the

validation

> like a sponge. I don¹t necessarily want pity (although I admit that

> sometimes I do) - but, as I said at the beginning of this tome, I

have spent

> my life searching for ³proof.² My mother has never been diagnosed

with

> mental illness. She has never been dangerous to herself or others -

not

> dangerous physically, at least. She never talks about things that

show a

> complete break with reality (like Martians in the TV, or

whatever) - but

> rather twists reality in a way that makes it almost impossible for

the other

> person to pin down. I have spent my whole life wondering if I am

the crazy

> one - she is a master gaslighter. Even coming on this site, I read

some of

> the other posts and thought, ³Do I qualify? My mom has never had

problems

> with the law, or shown this side of herself in such an unbridled

and public

> way... will these people think I am ³overly sensitive² as well? I

know it¹s

> not normal to start calling your daughter a f***ing b*tch when

she is eight

> years old, but is it really that bad? What about all the good

times, when

> she supported me completely and acted like my best friend (which

every once

> in a while, she still does)?²

>

> So you see, the guesswork never ends. I know that no one on this

site can

> give me an official diagnosis and I hold no one liable, of course.

But any

> opinions, advice, or experiences would help tremendously. I feel I

may be on

> the precipice of a whole new reality. And it feels huge. So, I

know this was

> a novel... apologies from a newbie.

>

> - Holly G.

>

>

>

>

>

>