My mother scares children!!

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm pretty new at this -- so new I've only just ordered my

copy of " Walking on Eggshells " and it hasn't even arrived yet! But

I've been having a major lightbulb experience here the past week,

just reading all the posts... I'm an only child and my mother

raised me alone, and she has every other family member and therapist

completely snowed into thinking she's normal -- if a bit mean-

tempered and stubborn -- so no one in the world ever knew what it

was like living with her and no one would believe me when I tried to

tell them!! (My relatives saw it as a " relationship problem, " even

when I was a kid, and didn't want to " take sides. " )

So, at 44 years old, I finally see there's a name for what she has --

and that my experience is so common! What a huge huge relief!!!

I'll probably be posting more once I've read the books... just

wanted to introduce myself and thank everyone here for helping me

feel so much better already.

Right now, I'm in a very challenging circumstance, having

temporarily moved with my 9 year-old son into my nada's " weekend "

house following my divorce. Naturally, once I moved in and spent a

lot of time fixing the place up (it was very dilapidated and unfit

for normal people to live in), it became her permanent residence --

which wasn't the original deal -- and now she's here fulltime to

devote her life to torturing me!

I haven't lived with this woman since I was 18 years old. I've

lived on my own, had a life, friends, a career, a child, a 17 year

marriage.... and I think this might be breaking me! My entire life

as an adult has been completely erased in her mind -- she really

believes that I've been " living off her " since the day I was born

(which is what she used to tell me when I was a kid) and now

believes she's been supporting me (financially and emotionally) non-

stop through my entire life, up to and including now!!! It's so

insane. This woman wasn't even speaking to me the whole year I got

pregnant and had my son (she met him when he was 3 months old) and

I've always supported myself financially! At heart, she just can't

stand having to do something as nice and normal and " mother-like " as

letting me stay here to recover after my divorce, even though it was

all her idea.... I now know it was a huge mistake moving in, but I

didn't know about BPD at the time -- and she was so " loving and

supportive " all during the breakup of my marriage that I really

wanted to believe she had changed... I didn't realize I was just

being hoovered.

Probably the toughest part is that, because she has almost no

friends, won't see a therapist and hasn't had a SO in over 20 years -

- I'm basically required to meet all her social and emotional needs

in every way.... it's like my childhood, all over again!!! If I

don't do and say and behave in exactly the way she requires, she

becomes enraged and explodes -- only now it's worse, because I can't

fight or defend myself, because I don't want my son to see her

raging!

Anyhow, it helps knowing there are people who understand. I also

have very few memories from childhood, which I've noticed is pretty

common here. One thing my nada does, that I haven't seen mentioned

in the posts I've read so far, is wear extremely age-inappropriate

and skimpy clothing... it's pretty scary to see her running into a

convenience store in a bathing suit or short-shorts like a teenager

considering she's almost 70! But she's always had this strange

delusion about her physical beauty -- and my imaginary ugliness

compared to it -- and has always dressed and acted as if she were

much thinner and younger and more alluring than she really was. She

also lives under the delusion that she's liked by everyone -- she

really has no ability to read unspoken signals and just assumes that

everyone, of all ages, likes her and finds her funny and charming.

As a result, she's always pushing herself on people socially in

really embarrassing ways. This is weird, too -- she considers

herself to be a great dancer and likes to brag about this and show

people her bizarre gyrating dance moves. (This is usually how she

ends up scaring children.) I think there's a kind of PD called

Histrionic, and this kind of weirdly provacative acting out is

supposed to be typical of that (she's also a classic BP). She also

refuses to keep any doors closed in the house -- she even sleeps

with her bedroom door open and the lights on. Even the front door

to the house is wide open at all times -- talk about boundary

issues!!

Another thing is, she's always been extremely messy -- way beyond

anything normal, because trust me I'm no suzy homemaker, and even I

can't deal with the level of filth she normally lives in. Cooking,

cleaning, buying groceries, doing dishes, laundry, mopping,

vacuuming, cleaning a bathroom -- all these things are beneath her.

I guess that's part of the whole " queen " act I keep hearing about...

but it's so weird!!!

Anyhow, I know those things probably sound strange -- I'm just

curious if anyone else out here has had any of these elements thrown

in along with everything else!

I'm hoping to learn some better coping techniques to get me through

this until I can get myself relocated, so I'm really looking forward

to reading these books and continuing to read all the posts from

everyone here! (Right now, my main coping strategy is " say nothing

and cater to her every whim " , and it's so stressful that my hair's

starting to fall out!)

Later, all -- and thanks for reading this mega-long post!

Shana

[Guest guest]

Hi Shana and welcome,

Nadas are good at " being supportive " when they see an opportunity to

hoover you into doing something they want you to do. Sorry to hear

you're in a tough situation right now - take care of yourself and

your child until you can get out of there!

> One thing my nada does, that I haven't seen mentioned

> in the posts I've read so far, is wear extremely age-inappropriate

> and skimpy clothing...

Yep, mine does this, too. She's stuck somewhere around age 13,

complete with bright bangles and plastic barrettes (think 80's). Her

gifts to me were always from the same age group - and boy would she

rage at me if she sensed I didn't appreciate them!

>She also

> refuses to keep any doors closed in the house -- she even sleeps

> with her bedroom door open and the lights on. Even the front door

> to the house is wide open at all times -- talk about boundary

> issues!!

That's interesting. Nadas are prone to odd behavior, but that is

kind of symbolic of boundary issues, isn't it?

By the way, your description of your dancing nada reminded me of

Elaine (from Seinfeld) and her girations - yikes! Poor children.

Funny though .

Glad you found us!

[Guest guest]

LOL -- yes! Picture Elaine at 70, in a tube top and a mini-skirt, and that's my

nada!!!

Re: My mother scares children!!

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Hi Shana and welcome,

>

> Nadas are good at " being supportive " when they see an

> opportunity to

> hoover you into doing something they want you to do. Sorry to

> hear

> you're in a tough situation right now - take care of yourself

> and

> your child until you can get out of there!

>

> > One thing my nada does, that I haven't seen mentioned

> > in the posts I've read so far, is wear extremely age-

> inappropriate

> > and skimpy clothing...

>

> Yep, mine does this, too. She's stuck somewhere around age 13,

> complete with bright bangles and plastic barrettes (think 80's).

> Her

> gifts to me were always from the same age group - and boy would

> she

> rage at me if she sensed I didn't appreciate them!

>

> >She also

> > refuses to keep any doors closed in the house -- she even

> sleeps

> > with her bedroom door open and the lights on. Even the front

> door

> > to the house is wide open at all times -- talk about boundary

> > issues!!

>

> That's interesting. Nadas are prone to odd behavior, but that is

> kind of symbolic of boundary issues, isn't it?

>

> By the way, your description of your dancing nada reminded me of

> Elaine (from Seinfeld) and her girations - yikes! Poor children.

> Funny though .

>

> Glad you found us!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

First off, I want to say Welcome! This is the first place I've found

where people truly relate to me. It's been a very alrge comfort, and I

hope you can find it, too.

As I was reading your post, I had several lightbulb moments myself. My

nada does the whole innappropriate dress thing, but it's not so bad as

your's (she's only 40). And she's pretty delusional about her

appearance in general and how people respond to her. She used to go

out to bars and come back raving about how all these men bought her

drinks and complemented her looks. I remember thinking " Well, they

were only looking at you like that because you look kind of slutty. "

Of course, I never told her that. I am not suicidal.

Anyways. Welcome, and keep coming back.

Neko Jaimie

[Guest guest]

I share the same anxieties. I would like to ask you if you have a lot of

anger too. What do you do with all of it?

K

>

>Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

>To: WTOAdultChildren1

>Subject: Re: My mother scares children!!

>Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:07:24 -0000

>

>First off, I want to say Welcome! This is the first place I've found

>where people truly relate to me. It's been a very alrge comfort, and I

>hope you can find it, too.

>

>As I was reading your post, I had several lightbulb moments myself. My

>nada does the whole innappropriate dress thing, but it's not so bad as

>your's (she's only 40). And she's pretty delusional about her

>appearance in general and how people respond to her. She used to go

>out to bars and come back raving about how all these men bought her

>drinks and complemented her looks. I remember thinking " Well, they

>were only looking at you like that because you look kind of slutty. "

>Of course, I never told her that. I am not suicidal.

>

>Anyways. Welcome, and keep coming back.

>

>Neko Jaimie

>

>

>

>

>

>Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

>@.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON

>THE GROUP.

>

>To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

>() for your copy. We also refer to “Understanding the

>Borderline Mother” (Lawson) and “Surviving the Borderline Parent,” (Roth)

>which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

>From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

>and the SWOE Workbook.

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the group you fit in well here sorry to say! Don't feel

bad about your mom wearing skimpy clothes. My mom always has dressed

like a skank I am not sure about now because I don't see or talk to

her but in the past when I was a kid my friends dads would always

want to bring them over because she would come to the door in

teddies. One time she even came to the door for her father-in-law

wearing a thong and top so short with no bra her nipples were

hanging out! She was often scolded by her parents even as an adult

for the way she dressed but she really felt good about herself. She

tried to buy me clothes like that but I never wore them I was known

as Barbie and she as the biker chick and she was proud of it! She

got her first job in our new town because she was known as " little

Miss Black bikini " and not because of her skill she never worked

that field in her life! Every day she wore a different color see

through lace shirt with NO BRA to work! When people complained she

complained louder that they were discriminating her and got her way!

She wore tube tops and daisy dukes all winter long and that's saying

something cuz winter here is cold like really cold! She got fired

because of an affair with he boss and then started a new job and I

think was up to the same stuff but cant prove it because he killed

himself. When her boss " killed himself " my mom and the wife had it

out and the wife wouldn't pay my mom her wages. But anyways my mom

showed up to his funeral wearing a sleazy tight black spandex mini

dress with a see through part in the cleavage area she was also

wearing one of those black hats that have the lace over the face! I

told her she looked like the sluty mistress and she said she was

happy for the complement! I was shocked then she spent the next 6

months crying on the phone every day over this bosses death!!!!

GRRRR No this was not the same boss she confessed the 6 year affair

with this was the new boss by the way. When I brought up to my dad

that she was more upset over her bosses death than her own fathers

he defended her and said she lost a lot more than a boss she also

lost her job! WOW! And the icing on the cake is that she is a Sunday

school teacher/ a self proclaimed pastor and actually has lead

church in her home including performing exorcisms and baptisms (of

course on the days she wasn't out messing around) lol. You are for

sure not alone in this one girl! Love Lizzy

PS My mom always has the doors open to even if she takes a crap and

if somebody wants to crap in peace she would barge in even if you

were in the shower!I understand!

>

> Well, I'm pretty new at this -- so new I've only just ordered my

> copy of " Walking on Eggshells " and it hasn't even arrived yet!

But

> I've been having a major lightbulb experience here the past week,

> just reading all the posts... I'm an only child and my mother

> raised me alone, and she has every other family member and

therapist

> completely snowed into thinking she's normal -- if a bit mean-

> tempered and stubborn -- so no one in the world ever knew what it

> was like living with her and no one would believe me when I tried

to

> tell them!! (My relatives saw it as a " relationship problem, "

even

> when I was a kid, and didn't want to " take sides. " )

>

> So, at 44 years old, I finally see there's a name for what she

has --

> and that my experience is so common! What a huge huge relief!!!

>

> I'll probably be posting more once I've read the books... just

> wanted to introduce myself and thank everyone here for helping me

> feel so much better already.

>

> Right now, I'm in a very challenging circumstance, having

> temporarily moved with my 9 year-old son into my nada's " weekend "

> house following my divorce. Naturally, once I moved in and spent

a

> lot of time fixing the place up (it was very dilapidated and unfit

> for normal people to live in), it became her permanent residence --

> which wasn't the original deal -- and now she's here fulltime to

> devote her life to torturing me!

>

> I haven't lived with this woman since I was 18 years old. I've

> lived on my own, had a life, friends, a career, a child, a 17

year

> marriage.... and I think this might be breaking me! My entire

life

> as an adult has been completely erased in her mind -- she really

> believes that I've been " living off her " since the day I was born

> (which is what she used to tell me when I was a kid) and now

> believes she's been supporting me (financially and emotionally)

non-

> stop through my entire life, up to and including now!!! It's so

> insane. This woman wasn't even speaking to me the whole year I

got

> pregnant and had my son (she met him when he was 3 months old) and

> I've always supported myself financially! At heart, she just

can't

> stand having to do something as nice and normal and " mother-like "

as

> letting me stay here to recover after my divorce, even though it

was

> all her idea.... I now know it was a huge mistake moving in, but I

> didn't know about BPD at the time -- and she was so " loving and

> supportive " all during the breakup of my marriage that I really

> wanted to believe she had changed... I didn't realize I was just

> being hoovered.

>

> Probably the toughest part is that, because she has almost no

> friends, won't see a therapist and hasn't had a SO in over 20

years -

> - I'm basically required to meet all her social and emotional

needs

> in every way.... it's like my childhood, all over again!!! If I

> don't do and say and behave in exactly the way she requires, she

> becomes enraged and explodes -- only now it's worse, because I

can't

> fight or defend myself, because I don't want my son to see her

> raging!

>

> Anyhow, it helps knowing there are people who understand. I also

> have very few memories from childhood, which I've noticed is

pretty

> common here. One thing my nada does, that I haven't seen

mentioned

> in the posts I've read so far, is wear extremely age-inappropriate

> and skimpy clothing... it's pretty scary to see her running into a

> convenience store in a bathing suit or short-shorts like a

teenager

> considering she's almost 70! But she's always had this strange

> delusion about her physical beauty -- and my imaginary ugliness

> compared to it -- and has always dressed and acted as if she were

> much thinner and younger and more alluring than she really was.

She

> also lives under the delusion that she's liked by everyone -- she

> really has no ability to read unspoken signals and just assumes

that

> everyone, of all ages, likes her and finds her funny and

charming.

> As a result, she's always pushing herself on people socially in

> really embarrassing ways. This is weird, too -- she considers

> herself to be a great dancer and likes to brag about this and show

> people her bizarre gyrating dance moves. (This is usually how she

> ends up scaring children.) I think there's a kind of PD called

> Histrionic, and this kind of weirdly provacative acting out is

> supposed to be typical of that (she's also a classic BP). She

also

> refuses to keep any doors closed in the house -- she even sleeps

> with her bedroom door open and the lights on. Even the front door

> to the house is wide open at all times -- talk about boundary

> issues!!

>

> Another thing is, she's always been extremely messy -- way beyond

> anything normal, because trust me I'm no suzy homemaker, and even

I

> can't deal with the level of filth she normally lives in.

Cooking,

> cleaning, buying groceries, doing dishes, laundry, mopping,

> vacuuming, cleaning a bathroom -- all these things are beneath

her.

> I guess that's part of the whole " queen " act I keep hearing

about...

> but it's so weird!!!

>

> Anyhow, I know those things probably sound strange -- I'm just

> curious if anyone else out here has had any of these elements

thrown

> in along with everything else!

>

> I'm hoping to learn some better coping techniques to get me

through

> this until I can get myself relocated, so I'm really looking

forward

> to reading these books and continuing to read all the posts from

> everyone here! (Right now, my main coping strategy is " say

nothing

> and cater to her every whim " , and it's so stressful that my hair's

> starting to fall out!)

>

> Later, all -- and thanks for reading this mega-long post!

>

> Shana

>

[Guest guest]

Neko Jaimie,

" I remember thinking " Well, they

were only looking at you like that because you look kind of slutty. "

Of course, I never told her that. I am not suicidal. "

LMAO You are a stich girl! I read that and thought about what I

just wrote with calling my mom a sluty mistress and she took it as a

complaint! That is so funny I guess it could be a death wish. OOPS.

Glad I made it!Love Lizzy

>

> First off, I want to say Welcome! This is the first place I've

found

> where people truly relate to me. It's been a very alrge comfort,

and I

> hope you can find it, too.

>

> As I was reading your post, I had several lightbulb moments

myself. My

> nada does the whole innappropriate dress thing, but it's not so

bad as

> your's (she's only 40). And she's pretty delusional about her

> appearance in general and how people respond to her. She used to

go

> out to bars and come back raving about how all these men bought

her

> drinks and complemented her looks. I remember thinking " Well, they

> were only looking at you like that because you look kind of

slutty. "

> Of course, I never told her that. I am not suicidal.

>

> Anyways. Welcome, and keep coming back.

>

> Neko Jaimie

>

[Guest guest]

K, In the beginning separation is hard and there is a grieving

period but it will get better. I still find even after 4 years that

there are times I grieve that I don't have a normal mother but I

know that if I have her back in my life it will not mean she is a

normal mother I will just have the same old bp nada. The feelings

you are experiencing are normal to feel. OF course we all struggle

as mothers to do it the " right way " we were never taught by a good

role model so we learn as we go. Reading is a good thing for us to

do it teaches us things we may otherwise have not known. So continue

to read and find the support in your friends outside of nada. Don't

beat yourself up over feeling frustrated sad lonely or guilty or

whatever else you feel each day. This is a big change in your life

perhaps one of the biggest changes you will ever make. Your children

may like her now but you know what is best for them as their parent.

I am sure the average kid would love to eat nothing but junk food

and never brush their teeth to but as parent this is where we step

in and say no its not good for you we need to do this and this. In

the mean time while they are adjusting to not seeing her find other

things for them to do. Kids bounce back and are easily distracted I

would recommend spending time with groups of people other than your

mom like friends and family who are not bp. When I went n/c 4 years

ago sometimes an aunt would take my son to a garage sale or to a toy

store or just on a picnic anything to keep busy. This will also keep

your mind occupied and then you won't feel so bad and worried. Of

course there will be attacks with BP people there usually are but

now is a growing time for you and you have all of us and all of your

other friends and support group so you can make it. Good luck with

this and keep posting! Love Lizzy

>

> Shana,

> I am a married woman with two beautiful children. I struggle

every day to

> figure out the " right " way to mother. My son has special needs

and my

> daughter is very strong willed. I used to yell all the time when

my first

> was born, but through therapy, I have learned to communicate with

respect.

>

> My mother is currently living 30 minutes away. I have finallly

reached the

> saturation point where I have decided enough is enough. I'm

grieving

> terribly, but also celebrating my freedom. The hardest part is

that my

> children adore her, but I fear for them.

>

> I have read a lot of books on BPD and have found them very

helpful. I have

> started to relive the past again. All of a sudden the terrible

fights and

> manipulations are coming back to me. I am struggling trying to

remember

> anything from my childhood that was fun with my mother. She was

there, I

> remember her being supportive and then wammy....she throws a

grenade at me.

>

> Recentlly, I commited the crime of changing plans which prompted a

letter

> from her describing how rejected she felt. In her mind she was

the

> " perfect " mother and wouldn't change a thing. I have chosen not

to even

> respond to her letter. For the past two or three weeks I have

been calling

> on old friends and enjoying life without the fear of upsetting the

beast.

>

> Will need support and reminders as the weeks progress. I keep

waiting for

> the attack !!!

>

> K

>

>

> >From: slarsen988@...

> >Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

> >To: WTOAdultChildren1

> >Subject: Re: RE: Re: My mother scares

children!!

> >Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:57:05 +0000 (GMT)

> >

> >Hi, K! I'm not really sure what your situation is -- are you

also living

> >with a nada? But yeah, I do get angry a lot -- who wouldn't?

It's very

> >hard to share a house with someone who's whole agenda is about

> >manipulation, blaming and rage...

> >

> >Mostly I handle the anger by doing things that reinforce my

separateness

> >from her -- because in my case, most of my anger comes from her

trying to

> >keep us enmeshed as adults the way she did when I was a kid. So

I have to

> >be extra-vigilant to do everything she doesn't do -- having lots

of

> >friendships, being honest with myself, having a great

relationship with my

> >son, treating others with kindness and respect, etc.

> >

> >Are you also a single mom? Because one thing I'm really enjoying

is being

> >able to rub it in my nada's face every day about what a better

mother I am

> >-- not that she necessarily notices, but I'm petty enough to get

my digs in

> >anyway. Being able to unconditionally love and support my

wonderful son,

> >right under her nose, is really satisfying! Also it helps remind

me how

> >different we are, as mothers and as people, which helps me feel

stronger

> >and more separate.

> >

> >Anyhow, I hope some of this relates to your situation in some way!

> >

> >Shana

> >

> >

> > Re: My mother scares children!!

> > > >Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:07:24 -0000

> > > >

> > > >First off, I want to say Welcome! This is the first place

I've found

> > > >where people truly relate to me. It's been a very alrge

> > > comfort, and I

> > > >hope you can find it, too.

> > > >

> > > >As I was reading your post, I had several lightbulb moments

> > > myself. My

> > > >nada does the whole innappropriate dress thing, but it's not

so

> > > bad as

> > > >your's (she's only 40). And she's pretty delusional about her

> > > >appearance in general and how people respond to her. She used

> > > to go

> > > >out to bars and come back raving about how all these men

bought her

> > > >drinks and complemented her looks. I remember thinking " Well,

they

> > > >were only looking at you like that because you look kind of

slutty. "

> > > >Of course, I never told her that. I am not suicidal.

> > > >

> > > >Anyways. Welcome, and keep coming back.

> > > >

> > > >Neko Jaimie

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

> > > >@... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO

> > > NOT Respond ON

> > > >THE GROUP.

> > > >

> > > >To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-

35-

> > > SHELL

> > > >() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding

> > > the

> > > >Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline

> > > Parent, " (Roth)

> > > >which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO

community!

> > > >

> > > >From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and

> > > author SWOE

> > > >and the SWOE Workbook.

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for the reassurance. The first two weeks have felt great,

but the anger is setting in and the depression/realization has hit me pretty

hard the last two days. I've know that my nada has had BPD and actually

confronted her on it last year. Silly me thinking I could help her !! She

actually admitted that she had been diagnosed with a mild case of BPD !!

Kind of like being a little pregnant !! I have struggled with setting

boundaries and limits. It has literally sucked the life out of me. I

suffer from migraines and depression. I have to save myself.

My therapist has encouraged me to stop and " feel " the pain and anger. I

feel like a dish rag. I know ultimately I am making the right choice by

cutting my relations with my nada, but I fear the wrath of her !! Its hard

to break those automatic feelings. Although I keep saying she can't hurt

me, I'm not sure my gut truely believes it.

I have started to contact old friends and go out more often with the

children instead of staying home. I am keeping myself busy. I actually

submitted an application to obtain my doctorate. I'm fearful that keeping

myself " busy " wont allow me to feel the pain and anger that I have kept

bottled up for 36 years, but if I sit around and feel it, it will consume

me. I feel like I'm going through a mid-life crisis...what do I actually

want? Who am I if I'm not trying to help others? Ironically I'm a nurse

practitioner !!

Any thoughts on how to get through the next few days....

K

>

>Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

>To: WTOAdultChildren1

>Subject: Re: My mother scares children!!

>Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:58:24 -0000

>

>K, In the beginning separation is hard and there is a grieving

>period but it will get better. I still find even after 4 years that

>there are times I grieve that I don't have a normal mother but I

>know that if I have her back in my life it will not mean she is a

>normal mother I will just have the same old bp nada. The feelings

>you are experiencing are normal to feel. OF course we all struggle

>as mothers to do it the " right way " we were never taught by a good

>role model so we learn as we go. Reading is a good thing for us to

>do it teaches us things we may otherwise have not known. So continue

>to read and find the support in your friends outside of nada. Don't

>beat yourself up over feeling frustrated sad lonely or guilty or

>whatever else you feel each day. This is a big change in your life

>perhaps one of the biggest changes you will ever make. Your children

>may like her now but you know what is best for them as their parent.

>I am sure the average kid would love to eat nothing but junk food

>and never brush their teeth to but as parent this is where we step

>in and say no its not good for you we need to do this and this. In

>the mean time while they are adjusting to not seeing her find other

>things for them to do. Kids bounce back and are easily distracted I

>would recommend spending time with groups of people other than your

>mom like friends and family who are not bp. When I went n/c 4 years

>ago sometimes an aunt would take my son to a garage sale or to a toy

>store or just on a picnic anything to keep busy. This will also keep

>your mind occupied and then you won't feel so bad and worried. Of

>course there will be attacks with BP people there usually are but

>now is a growing time for you and you have all of us and all of your

>other friends and support group so you can make it. Good luck with

>this and keep posting! Love Lizzy

>

> >

> > Shana,

> > I am a married woman with two beautiful children. I struggle

>every day to

> > figure out the " right " way to mother. My son has special needs

>and my

> > daughter is very strong willed. I used to yell all the time when

>my first

> > was born, but through therapy, I have learned to communicate with

>respect.

> >

> > My mother is currently living 30 minutes away. I have finallly

>reached the

> > saturation point where I have decided enough is enough. I'm

>grieving

> > terribly, but also celebrating my freedom. The hardest part is

>that my

> > children adore her, but I fear for them.

> >

> > I have read a lot of books on BPD and have found them very

>helpful. I have

> > started to relive the past again. All of a sudden the terrible

>fights and

> > manipulations are coming back to me. I am struggling trying to

>remember

> > anything from my childhood that was fun with my mother. She was

>there, I

> > remember her being supportive and then wammy....she throws a

>grenade at me.

> >

> > Recentlly, I commited the crime of changing plans which prompted a

>letter

> > from her describing how rejected she felt. In her mind she was

>the

> > " perfect " mother and wouldn't change a thing. I have chosen not

>to even

> > respond to her letter. For the past two or three weeks I have

>been calling

> > on old friends and enjoying life without the fear of upsetting the

>beast.

> >

> > Will need support and reminders as the weeks progress. I keep

>waiting for

> > the attack !!!

> >

> > K

> >

> >

> > >From: slarsen988@...

> > >Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > >To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > >Subject: Re: RE: Re: My mother scares

>children!!

> > >Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:57:05 +0000 (GMT)

> > >

> > >Hi, K! I'm not really sure what your situation is -- are you

>also living

> > >with a nada? But yeah, I do get angry a lot -- who wouldn't?

>It's very

> > >hard to share a house with someone who's whole agenda is about

> > >manipulation, blaming and rage...

> > >

> > >Mostly I handle the anger by doing things that reinforce my

>separateness

> > >from her -- because in my case, most of my anger comes from her

>trying to

> > >keep us enmeshed as adults the way she did when I was a kid. So

>I have to

> > >be extra-vigilant to do everything she doesn't do -- having lots

>of

> > >friendships, being honest with myself, having a great

>relationship with my

> > >son, treating others with kindness and respect, etc.

> > >

> > >Are you also a single mom? Because one thing I'm really enjoying

>is being

> > >able to rub it in my nada's face every day about what a better

>mother I am

> > >-- not that she necessarily notices, but I'm petty enough to get

>my digs in

> > >anyway. Being able to unconditionally love and support my

>wonderful son,

> > >right under her nose, is really satisfying! Also it helps remind

>me how

> > >different we are, as mothers and as people, which helps me feel

>stronger

> > >and more separate.

> > >

> > >Anyhow, I hope some of this relates to your situation in some way!

> > >

> > >Shana

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: My mother scares children!!

> > > > >Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:07:24 -0000

> > > > >

> > > > >First off, I want to say Welcome! This is the first place

>I've found

> > > > >where people truly relate to me. It's been a very alrge

> > > > comfort, and I

> > > > >hope you can find it, too.

> > > > >

> > > > >As I was reading your post, I had several lightbulb moments

> > > > myself. My

> > > > >nada does the whole innappropriate dress thing, but it's not

>so

> > > > bad as

> > > > >your's (she's only 40). And she's pretty delusional about her

> > > > >appearance in general and how people respond to her. She used

> > > > to go

> > > > >out to bars and come back raving about how all these men

>bought her

> > > > >drinks and complemented her looks. I remember thinking " Well,

>they

> > > > >were only looking at you like that because you look kind of

>slutty. "

> > > > >Of course, I never told her that. I am not suicidal.

> > > > >

> > > > >Anyways. Welcome, and keep coming back.

> > > > >

> > > > >Neko Jaimie

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

> > > > >@... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO

> > > > NOT Respond ON

> > > > >THE GROUP.

> > > > >

> > > > >To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-

>35-

> > > > SHELL

> > > > >() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding

> > > > the

> > > > >Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline

> > > > Parent, " (Roth)

> > > > >which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO

>community!

> > > > >

> > > > >From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and

> > > > author SWOE

> > > > >and the SWOE Workbook.

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

" She actually admitted that she had been diagnosed with a mild case

of BPD !!

Kind of like being a little pregnant !! "

lol

Hi K, Well for one thing if you suffer from migraines and

depression I don't have to tell you twice balance in your life is

KEY! I am sure you also know that considering your field. I also

suffer from migraines and have a seizure disorder to so anything in

large doses can set me off like stress, sound, light, emotions, good

or bad. I have not been having any meds for my depression for over

a year but I have been on the seizure and migraine meds since I was

just a peanut. But I still think the best thing is to try and

prevent them from starting in the first place have you tried

Topamax? This works well for me. I have been on this for 4 years now

I started to take it because of my seizures but it helped my

migraines as well. So I told my aunt who does not have seizures but

migraines and her Dr gave her a smaller dose and it helps her to. So

now I can take less zomig, barbital, imitrex and whatever else.

Maybe this can help you to. One thing aside from the migraines is

don't put to much pressure on yourself realize you can only take one

day at a time. Of course you don't want to repress your feelings and

become overly busy but you also can not spend your days in the house

with the curtains drawn so try and make a balance in your life. It

is hard especially when you were never taught that. Continue to keep

in touch with your friends and post when you need to but also allow

your self some time alone to think about your emotions and let them

out. Like maybe when your kids are napping or in bed and you are on

the computer or drinking a cup of coffee. It is kind of like walking

on a fence you cant go to far to either side and you have to find

that happy middle where you fit in the best. You can do it and you

will do it You are right save your life. Just take it a day at a

time. Love Lizzy

> > >

> > > Shana,

> > > I am a married woman with two beautiful children. I struggle

> >every day to

> > > figure out the " right " way to mother. My son has special needs

> >and my

> > > daughter is very strong willed. I used to yell all the time

when

> >my first

> > > was born, but through therapy, I have learned to communicate

with

> >respect.

> > >

> > > My mother is currently living 30 minutes away. I have finallly

> >reached the

> > > saturation point where I have decided enough is enough. I'm

> >grieving

> > > terribly, but also celebrating my freedom. The hardest part is

> >that my

> > > children adore her, but I fear for them.

> > >

> > > I have read a lot of books on BPD and have found them very

> >helpful. I have

> > > started to relive the past again. All of a sudden the terrible

> >fights and

> > > manipulations are coming back to me. I am struggling trying to

> >remember

> > > anything from my childhood that was fun with my mother. She

was

> >there, I

> > > remember her being supportive and then wammy....she throws a

> >grenade at me.

> > >

> > > Recentlly, I commited the crime of changing plans which

prompted a

> >letter

> > > from her describing how rejected she felt. In her mind she was

> >the

> > > " perfect " mother and wouldn't change a thing. I have chosen

not

> >to even

> > > respond to her letter. For the past two or three weeks I have

> >been calling

> > > on old friends and enjoying life without the fear of upsetting

the

> >beast.

> > >

> > > Will need support and reminders as the weeks progress. I keep

> >waiting for

> > > the attack !!!

> > >

> > > K

> > >

> > >

> > > >From: slarsen988@

> > > >Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > > >To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > > >Subject: Re: RE: Re: My mother scares

> >children!!

> > > >Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:57:05 +0000 (GMT)

> > > >

> > > >Hi, K! I'm not really sure what your situation is -- are you

> >also living

> > > >with a nada? But yeah, I do get angry a lot -- who wouldn't?

> >It's very

> > > >hard to share a house with someone who's whole agenda is about

> > > >manipulation, blaming and rage...

> > > >

> > > >Mostly I handle the anger by doing things that reinforce my

> >separateness

> > > >from her -- because in my case, most of my anger comes from

her

> >trying to

> > > >keep us enmeshed as adults the way she did when I was a kid.

So

> >I have to

> > > >be extra-vigilant to do everything she doesn't do -- having

lots

> >of

> > > >friendships, being honest with myself, having a great

> >relationship with my

> > > >son, treating others with kindness and respect, etc.

> > > >

> > > >Are you also a single mom? Because one thing I'm really

enjoying

> >is being

> > > >able to rub it in my nada's face every day about what a better

> >mother I am

> > > >-- not that she necessarily notices, but I'm petty enough to

get

> >my digs in

> > > >anyway. Being able to unconditionally love and support my

> >wonderful son,

> > > >right under her nose, is really satisfying! Also it helps

remind

> >me how

> > > >different we are, as mothers and as people, which helps me

feel

> >stronger

> > > >and more separate.

> > > >

> > > >Anyhow, I hope some of this relates to your situation in some

way!

> > > >

> > > >Shana

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Re: My mother scares

children!!

> > > > > >Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:07:24 -0000

> > > > > >

> > > > > >First off, I want to say Welcome! This is the first place

> >I've found

> > > > > >where people truly relate to me. It's been a very alrge

> > > > > comfort, and I

> > > > > >hope you can find it, too.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >As I was reading your post, I had several lightbulb

moments

> > > > > myself. My

> > > > > >nada does the whole innappropriate dress thing, but it's

not

> >so

> > > > > bad as

> > > > > >your's (she's only 40). And she's pretty delusional about

her

> > > > > >appearance in general and how people respond to her. She

used

> > > > > to go

> > > > > >out to bars and come back raving about how all these men

> >bought her

> > > > > >drinks and complemented her looks. I remember

thinking " Well,

> >they

> > > > > >were only looking at you like that because you look kind

of

> >slutty. "

> > > > > >Of course, I never told her that. I am not suicidal.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >Anyways. Welcome, and keep coming back.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >Neko Jaimie

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

> > > > > >@ SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO

> > > > > NOT Respond ON

> > > > > >THE GROUP.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call

888-

> >35-

> > > > > SHELL

> > > > > >() for your copy. We also refer

to " Understanding

> > > > > the

> > > > > >Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline

> > > > > Parent, " (Roth)

> > > > > >which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO

> >community!

> > > > > >

> > > > > >From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community

and

> > > > > author SWOE

> > > > > >and the SWOE Workbook.

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

First of all, I am on topamax for sleep issues (I toss and turn and throw

things, etc) and it also helps prevent migraines for me, and a little with

pain issues I have and so forth and it doesn't make me gain weight- I

actually lost some going on it. I love the stuff. I have read before that

children of parents with BPD having higher rates of problems like

fibromyalgia, autism spectrum disorder, migraines, etc. I thought that was

intersting. I have fibromyalgia myself. My brother is autistic. I have a

learning disability that is in some ways similar to autism spectrum

issues... sort of wonder if that is a chicken or egg issue in terms of what

runs in the family and the whys and hows.

Anyway, I totally get what you mean about how your mother seems to have this

belief about you her " supporting you " all those years. Ditto. My Nada

thinks she has supported me totally throughout college and everything. If

only I had been there for that. She paid my car insurance for me. And I

was very grateful for that. And then once, when I was 20, she did pay some

medical bills for me when I was very sick, about $2500.00 total. I was

grateful for that too. But somehow, in her mind, this or other little

things has become her supporting me somehow. I paid my own rent and lived

on my own and so forth. And then she talks about how she has sacrificed and

I would have had to drop out of college years ago if I was doing it on my

own, etc. Whatever. My Nada also has no friends or SO. BTW my not having

to pay her back for all the money she spent on my growing up has been of

hers to me several times now. I think this is hillarious.

Growing up I remember that as kids we would have conversations about whose

dad was bigger than whose dad, whose parents were meaner, etc on the

playground or wherever. Whenever we would have these conversations I could

say, " My mom is scarier than anyone elses mom " . And all the other kids

would nodd. And they would say things like, " Yeah, your mom is scary. Shes

the one with the black hair and coat right? Oh, I've seen her. That one. "

LOL.

-Ata

>

> " She actually admitted that she had been diagnosed with a mild case

> of BPD !!

> Kind of like being a little pregnant !! "

> lol

>

> Hi K, Well for one thing if you suffer from migraines and

> depression I don't have to tell you twice balance in your life is

> KEY! I am sure you also know that considering your field. I also

> suffer from migraines and have a seizure disorder to so anything in

> large doses can set me off like stress, sound, light, emotions, good

> or bad. I have not been having any meds for my depression for over

> a year but I have been on the seizure and migraine meds since I was

> just a peanut. But I still think the best thing is to try and

> prevent them from starting in the first place have you tried

> Topamax? This works well for me. I have been on this for 4 years now

> I started to take it because of my seizures but it helped my

> migraines as well. So I told my aunt who does not have seizures but

> migraines and her Dr gave her a smaller dose and it helps her to. So

> now I can take less zomig, barbital, imitrex and whatever else.

> Maybe this can help you to. One thing aside from the migraines is

> don't put to much pressure on yourself realize you can only take one

> day at a time. Of course you don't want to repress your feelings and

> become overly busy but you also can not spend your days in the house

> with the curtains drawn so try and make a balance in your life. It

> is hard especially when you were never taught that. Continue to keep

> in touch with your friends and post when you need to but also allow

> your self some time alone to think about your emotions and let them

> out. Like maybe when your kids are napping or in bed and you are on

> the computer or drinking a cup of coffee. It is kind of like walking

> on a fence you cant go to far to either side and you have to find

> that happy middle where you fit in the best. You can do it and you

> will do it You are right save your life. Just take it a day at a

> time. Love Lizzy

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Shana,

> > > > I am a married woman with two beautiful children. I struggle

> > >every day to

> > > > figure out the " right " way to mother. My son has special needs

> > >and my

> > > > daughter is very strong willed. I used to yell all the time

> when

> > >my first

> > > > was born, but through therapy, I have learned to communicate

> with

> > >respect.

> > > >

> > > > My mother is currently living 30 minutes away. I have finallly

> > >reached the

> > > > saturation point where I have decided enough is enough. I'm

> > >grieving

> > > > terribly, but also celebrating my freedom. The hardest part is

> > >that my

> > > > children adore her, but I fear for them.

> > > >

> > > > I have read a lot of books on BPD and have found them very

> > >helpful. I have

> > > > started to relive the past again. All of a sudden the terrible

> > >fights and

> > > > manipulations are coming back to me. I am struggling trying to

> > >remember

> > > > anything from my childhood that was fun with my mother. She

> was

> > >there, I

> > > > remember her being supportive and then wammy....she throws a

> > >grenade at me.

> > > >

> > > > Recentlly, I commited the crime of changing plans which

> prompted a

> > >letter

> > > > from her describing how rejected she felt. In her mind she was

> > >the

> > > > " perfect " mother and wouldn't change a thing. I have chosen

> not

> > >to even

> > > > respond to her letter. For the past two or three weeks I have

> > >been calling

> > > > on old friends and enjoying life without the fear of upsetting

> the

> > >beast.

> > > >

> > > > Will need support and reminders as the weeks progress. I keep

> > >waiting for

> > > > the attack !!!

> > > >

> > > > K

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >From: slarsen988@

> > > > >Reply-To:

WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > >To:

WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > >Subject: Re: RE: Re: My mother scares

> > >children!!

> > > > >Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:57:05 +0000 (GMT)

> > > > >

> > > > >Hi, K! I'm not really sure what your situation is -- are you

> > >also living

> > > > >with a nada? But yeah, I do get angry a lot -- who wouldn't?

> > >It's very

> > > > >hard to share a house with someone who's whole agenda is about

> > > > >manipulation, blaming and rage...

> > > > >

> > > > >Mostly I handle the anger by doing things that reinforce my

> > >separateness

> > > > >from her -- because in my case, most of my anger comes from

> her

> > >trying to

> > > > >keep us enmeshed as adults the way she did when I was a kid.

> So

> > >I have to

> > > > >be extra-vigilant to do everything she doesn't do -- having

> lots

> > >of

> > > > >friendships, being honest with myself, having a great

> > >relationship with my

> > > > >son, treating others with kindness and respect, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > >Are you also a single mom? Because one thing I'm really

> enjoying

> > >is being

> > > > >able to rub it in my nada's face every day about what a better

> > >mother I am

> > > > >-- not that she necessarily notices, but I'm petty enough to

> get

> > >my digs in

> > > > >anyway. Being able to unconditionally love and support my

> > >wonderful son,

> > > > >right under her nose, is really satisfying! Also it helps

> remind

> > >me how

> > > > >different we are, as mothers and as people, which helps me

> feel

> > >stronger

> > > > >and more separate.

> > > > >

> > > > >Anyhow, I hope some of this relates to your situation in some

> way!

> > > > >

> > > > >Shana

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Re: My mother scares

> children!!

> > > > > > >Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:07:24 -0000

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >First off, I want to say Welcome! This is the first place

> > >I've found

> > > > > > >where people truly relate to me. It's been a very alrge

> > > > > > comfort, and I

> > > > > > >hope you can find it, too.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >As I was reading your post, I had several lightbulb

> moments

> > > > > > myself. My

> > > > > > >nada does the whole innappropriate dress thing, but it's

> not

> > >so

> > > > > > bad as

> > > > > > >your's (she's only 40). And she's pretty delusional about

> her

> > > > > > >appearance in general and how people respond to her. She

> used

> > > > > > to go

> > > > > > >out to bars and come back raving about how all these men

> > >bought her

> > > > > > >drinks and complemented her looks. I remember

> thinking " Well,

> > >they

> > > > > > >were only looking at you like that because you look kind

> of

> > >slutty. "

> > > > > > >Of course, I never told her that. I am not suicidal.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Anyways. Welcome, and keep coming back.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Neko Jaimie

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at

> > > > > > >@ SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO

> > > > > > NOT Respond ON

> > > > > > >THE GROUP.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call

> 888-

> > >35-

> > > > > > SHELL

> > > > > > >() for your copy. We also refer

> to " Understanding

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > >Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline

> > > > > > Parent, " (Roth)

> > > > > > >which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO

> > >community!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community

> and

> > > > > > author SWOE

> > > > > > >and the SWOE Workbook.

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Ata, I think we have very similar types of nadas!

Mine also isn't at all promiscuous -- hasn't had a SO in over 20 years -- and

never touches alcohol or any type of substance. Her outrageously revealing

style of dress is more about dressing like a young pre-teen than trying to come

off as sexy.... she's kind of got this " pure martyr " dynamic.

But the rage -- and all other BPD symptoms -- are right on target!

The money issue is very big with her. She's extremely cheap and does resent the

money she spent raising me as a child and still uses this to blame me now that

she's inadequately prepared for retirement -- or anytime a financial emergency

comes up, it's all my fault. She believes she paid for my college -- I only

went 3 semesters and had to work fulltime to support myself, and most of it was

paid through student loans that I've since repaid myself! I then went on to buy

my own apartment and then a house -- she loaned me part of the money for the

first downpayment, which I returned to her when I sold the place a few years

later, and she's complained ever since that she didn't get interest or make a

profit! (Not that she asked for it at the time.)

In my entire adult life, I only took money from her for one year -- when I

changed professions -- and now over a decade later she still takes full credit

for the success I had in my new career because of all her help (which was the

barest minimum, believe me!)

It comes down to -- everything I have is because of her and her help, and I'm

responsible for everything that goes wrong in her life because if she hadn't had

to support me growing up, she'd have a better house, car, clothes, job, life....

(oh yeah, and a boyfriend too!)

Ay carumba....

Shana

Re: My mother scares

> > children!!

> > > > > > > >Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:07:24 -0000

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >First off, I want to say Welcome! This is the first place

> > > >I've found

> > > > > > > >where people truly relate to me. It's been a very alrge

> > > > > > > comfort, and I

> > > > > > > >hope you can find it, too.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >As I was reading your post, I had several lightbulb

> > moments

> > > > > > > myself. My

> > > > > > > >nada does the whole innappropriate dress thing, but it's

> > not

> > > >so

> > > > > > > bad as

> > > > > > > >your's (she's only 40). And she's pretty delusional about

> > her

> > > > > > > >appearance in general and how people respond to

> her. She

> > used

> > > > > > > to go

> > > > > > > >out to bars and come back raving about how all

> these men

> > > >bought her

> > > > > > > >drinks and complemented her looks. I remember

> > thinking " Well,

> > > >they

> > > > > > > >were only looking at you like that because you look kind

> > of

> > > >slutty. "

> > > > > > > >Of course, I never told her that. I am not suicidal.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Anyways. Welcome, and keep coming back.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Neko Jaimie

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for

> help at

> > > > > > > >@ SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO

> > > > > > > NOT Respond ON

> > > > > > > >THE GROUP.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call

> > 888-

> > > >35-

> > > > > > > SHELL

> > > > > > > >() for your copy. We also refer

> > to " Understanding

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline

> > > > > > > Parent, " (Roth)

> > > > > > > >which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO

> > > >community!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community

> > and

> > > > > > > author SWOE

> > > > > > > >and the SWOE Workbook.

> > > > > > > >