I'm new - on WP and have to get off!

[Guest guest]

Robin, I am so sorry to hear of your problems. I read too much negative about the Wiley Protocol, so I am not trying it. I would suggest you purchase the book "The Hormonally Vulnerable Woman" by Dr. Geoffrey Redmond. He is an endocrinologist in New York and seems to know his stuff. Since I can't get to him (I live in Illinois) my local doctor is assisting me with following his protocol. I am on Spironolactone for hair loss and a 0.1 Vivelle Dot estrogen patch. Climera would not stick. So far, my hair is still shedding, but I feel good. He says there will no improvement for 2-4 months. He also says we should NOT use testosterone, because the side effects will be exactly what you are dealing with. He also says we should take Prometrium for 12 days every other month (which I'm doing) to prevent endometrial cancer. No more than that. Good luck...keep me posted.robinsusan wrote: Hi,My name is Robin, I'm 57, was on BHRT orally for many years, but was concerned b/c I was not doing it rhythmically. I started the WP four and one half months ago and I'm a mess. My hair is falling out, I've gained weight (the least of my problems), have linea negra, horrible cramps, huge bloated stomach, the list goes on. To make matters worse, my Dr. prescribed Testosterone cream which I applied every day to the

inside of my right thigh. Now I have long dark hair all over my right thigh where there was none before (my left thigh is fine).I don't know where to go from here. It's obvious that I've overdosed on P. Also, I have not had the period that I was promised. Thank God yesterday was the last day of using P, but what do I do now? I just moved to land and have been unable to find a Dr. who knows what they are doing. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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[Guest guest]

Hi Robin, It is so sad to hear your story after being on WP for only 4 mos! The protocol (esp the high dose) E may well be slamming your thyroid. Have you had your thyroid checked? And if you have let is know the numbers, because there is controversy about what is optimum and what is "normal". My 93 yr old mother in law was told she had normal thyroid readings with a TSH=3.7 which went to TSH=4.95 within a month and her free t3 and free t4 were in the toilet. She is wearing 3 sweaters in the middle of summer! It was not until I said the latter that the doctor agreed to give her Synthroid. YIKES Linea Negra after only 4 mos?? Must be P-buildup from prior use of BHRT? And now the added WP high progesterone dosing has put you into pregnancy mode. You may well have enough P in you to last months. OMG Bloated stomach, no period? Have you had an ultrasound done to see whats going on in your uterus? After experimenting with T (testo) for a long time (my free T is low), I have finally come to a place where I can use 1-2.5mg of T (after lowering my E) without too many chin hairs. Recent studies showed that T and E rather than E and P was less likely to cause breast cancer. I put my T on the bottom of my foot or right behind my ankle where there is thin skin. No way can you grow long black hairs there. LOL I am not sure what docs have against T other than that it can promote unwanted hairs from conversion to DHT. I take EPO (Evening Primrose Oil for that, which blocks DHT). Sorry I cannot help you with a doctor in land. Maybe someone else has a referral? Send an email here with that request in the Subject line. It is not easy to find someone

who is familiar with high dosing of BHRT. Most endos freak and want you back down to 0.625mg of E or so (to prevent hot flashes only) and have no idea what it feels like to come down from the high WP doses. If you do that, you will hit the menopause brick wall like a mack truck. I have been there. I am sorry Robin, there is no easy way to come down from the WP. Even Suzie Wiley acknowledged that several years ago. She and the docs doing her protocol just don't bother to inform women about this. I am just amazed that after having had RhythmicLiving up for several years now with all its revealing and distressing information that this Wiley protocol is still going strong. Of course the Wiley camp dismisses us as being neurotic women who do not follow the protocol. So much for empowering women. OK that is enough ranting. Hang in there, be patient, read

as much as you can on RL website, read our archives, and know you can pull through this, although it will take time. Madeleen robinsusan wrote: Hi,My name is Robin, I'm 57, was on BHRT orally for many years, but was concerned b/c I was not doing it rhythmically. I started the

WP four and one half months ago and I'm a mess. My hair is falling out, I've gained weight (the least of my problems), have linea negra, horrible cramps, huge bloated stomach, the list goes on. To make matters worse, my Dr. prescribed Testosterone cream which I applied every day to the inside of my right thigh. Now I have long dark hair all over my right thigh where there was none before (my left thigh is fine).I don't know where to go from here. It's obvious that I've overdosed on P. Also, I have not had the period that I was promised. Thank God yesterday was the last day of using P, but what do I do now? I just moved to land and have been unable to find a Dr. who knows what they are doing. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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[Guest guest]

When there is discussion of seeing Dr. Redmond I feel I ought to chime

in! In my hair loss posts there are times I quote something from him,

but other than this he is a doctor I moved on from quickly. I flew up

to NYC to see him 2 1/2 years ago when I was shedding heavily. I was

his first patient that arrived after reading his new book. My feeling

is that he does best with women he puts on the BCP and spiro, his

official protocol. There are a number of women in growhair, that I

co-moderate, who have seen him.

Low androgens or not he prescribes spiro. For me, with low T, I shed

horribly on spiro and went off. He sounded surprised when I called and

told him the volume of hair I shed from this. I understand that now he

is more use to hearing this. To me, his protocol approach is toxic and

limited. He doesn't grasp, nor inquire into, any of the other

connections to hair loss. He does understand that P can cause hair

loss. When asked about low Ferritin and hair loss he didn't buy it and

even stated that iron can be toxic and be careful. Perhaps so, but

there are a lot of women out there, primarily hypot, that will say

that their hair loss issues are influenced positively by raising

ferritin. And Redmond's peer Dr. Bergfeld, Cleveland Clinic, posts a

lot of studies about Ferritin and hair loss. Her hair loss patients

are guided to increase ferritin levels. When asked about thyroid, with

a TSH of 2.8, he said he didn't think it was contributing to my hair

loss, but prescribed Levoxyl, because " sooner or later I would have to

take it " . I was doused with hypothyroid symptoms at the time and not

about to take Levoxyl as it is often fingered as causing more than it's

share of hair loss in itself. Stupid choice when you already have hair

shedding issues. imho.

Not only this, it was infinitely difficult to be treated by him from a

distance using the phone. I felt I was in danger of getting even more

off track if I continued with him. He focused heavily on androgens

as the cause of my shedding. I have virtually no T. After going on

Propecia and shedding vast amounts of hair I soon decided that this

couldn't be it. My road veered away from him and into my own treatment

of thyroid, adrenals, then gut and all of it's surrounding

relationships with absorption, dysbiosis, leaky gut, food allergies

....... the list goes on.

My opinion is that you get the best he has to offer from his book.

Redmond, from my understanding, worked in testosterone research for

companies that produced birth control pills. He lost his medical

license in Ohio for Medicare fraud. Might or might not have been

legit, who knows, but he moved to NYC, off Park Ave., and set up shop

in a dingy building where he rents a dilapidated office. The building

is staffed by a staffed collective that work for the building

inhabitants. It's a mix of many disciplines in the building. His

office is cramped and creepy. It looks ransacked. The perfect picture

was when he sifted and fished a birth control pill sample pack off a

over stuffed toppling bookcase, gave me some directives, then opened it

to find it empty of all contents. Everything about him was a day late,

dollar short. It was unnerving all the way.

And it evidently isn't true for all that taking T causes hair loss.

There are a number of women who post that it stopped their shedding.

It appears that keeping E in right opposition makes the difference.

On a good note, the book offers some positive things. I think the

poster who mentioned Redmond to you pretty well outlined them to you.

-AG

> Thanks so much for the advice. I called Dr. Redmond's office today

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> and left a message that I wanted to make an appointment. In the

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> meantime I will read his book and try to work with my Dr. here.

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> I'll let you know what happens...