Re: Revelations

[Guest guest]

,

Reading about your experiences just makes me see red. No child should

be forced, by their own MF'on parent, to live in Guantanamo Bay

conditions. That's wrong on every conceivable level, and I am so, so

sorry you have that for a memory. I don't know if it helps at all, but

I am motivated to get involved in helping out at the abused children's

places here in town. I've wanted to, but not made the time. Hearing

about it from basically one of their perspectives (you) has helped me

to be clear--I need to do this for my own sanity. Too many people in

the world just don't want to fool with it. I know what THAT feels

like, too. SO thanks for the kick in the ass.

The most striking thing about your post on that was the fact that your

nada knew. She had to have--right? She had to have known that plumbing

repair was a free part of her tenancy--it would have been in the

lease. She read the lease, right? Do you think it sunk in? I have

these types of tormenting questions about my own nada--

*how much was her being ignorant of the way the world worked

*how much was her forgetting (because of utter self-absorption) what

she'd been told about how things worked

*how much was just not giving a shit, and having to cover that with

feigned surprise

*and how much was her sadistic desire to punish me, for whatever

psychotic transgression I'd done in her head?

You know, I wouldn't put it past my mom to forget something as

blaringly obvious as being entitled to having something fixed by a

landlord, except that in her case, she was only too aware of what

others owed her, didn't ask for it because she didn't think she

deserved it, and covered that knowledge by blaming others for not

giving to her what she didn't ask for. But I also wouldn't put it past

her to just simply withhold from me something I desperately needed,

out of spite for some " slight " , or the lofty desire to teach me a

lesson for being so " grasping " , or out of resentment--why should I

ever be happy, when she couldn't be?

I know it doesn't ultimately matter--sick is sick, whatever the

momentary motivation. But I do find myself haunted by these types of

wonderings. Mybe it's clear to you exactly why your mother treated the

plumbing issue like that, I don't know.

But I was wondering--does anyone else have these puzzled feelings

about " how could their nada not known about THAT? She had to have,

wouldn't she? But then, why would she do________ if she knew?? "

My main one is not knowing whether she understood about the bullying I

faced in middle school and just didn't think it was worth her time,

felt too scared to stand up for me, didn't believe me, maybe I

minimzed it to her out of shame, WTF happened? Did they not know, or

was I left to rot? And I'll probably never know.

Love,

Vi

>

> I had a couple of epiphanies while I was in hiding . . . mostly bad

> ones, but I guess they're theraputic. As Dr. Phil says, you can't

> change what you can't acknowlege. Just venting these out there,

> sorry if I repeat stuff or bore anyone.

>

> 1) The Bad Place (which is what I've now decided to call the

> apartment where nada abandoned me) and all that time, that whole

> year that I had no toilet: It clogged, the plunger failed, and she

> told me we couldn't afford to have it fixed, so I'd just have to

> live with it like that (SHE didn't, of course, but you've heard that

> rant). Guys, we had a landlord. What landlord refuses to fix his own

> plumbing, as he is obligated by law to do? In HIS house, no less! It

> wasn't our responsibility to fix, period. One phone call, or a knock

> on the door (30 ft. away - WOAH!), and a plumber would have been

> there that day. It could have all been over, and for FREE. We

> probably would have even gotten a discount on rent for the

> inconvenience. For my part, I did at least suggest that we ask him

> to call a plumber (repeatedly), but she told me one of two lies: 1)

> it's too expensive and 2) I was a lazy, ungrateful little b**ch who

> had made such a mess, no serviceperson should have to walk around in

> it. She could have made it stop.

>

> 2) She has been undermining my relationship with my aunt (who I

> really, really wish was my mom) since pretty much forever. And now

> that relationship is gone beyond repair.

>

> Sorry, had to vent.

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm reading something else into the Nada not fixing the toilet story, as

deplorable as it is. It seems to go with the BPD idea that everything needs to

be perfect all the time. If she had let the landlord (or anyone else) into that

apartment, they would have easily seen the neglect and problems within it. So

instead of getting you help, she wanted to preserve her own image. Of course,

this makes it worse, but that's what I'm seeing in this.

On a more positive note, I wouldn't give up on your relationship with your

aunt, even if the situation seems difficult right now. Family members can be

very resilient. Please don't give up on that completely.

is

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone who responded. You all made some really valid

points and while I'm sure I'll never get an answer from the

perpetrater, it's so validating just to have people stand up with

you and say " That ain't Right. " So, thank you, thank you for that.

Vi, you posted these questions:

*how much was her being ignorant of the way the world worked

*how much was her forgetting (because of utter self-absorption) what

she'd been told about how things worked

*how much was just not giving a shit, and having to cover that with

feigned surprise

*and how much was her sadistic desire to punish me, for whatever

psychotic transgression I'd done in her head?

AND: she was only too aware of what

> others owed her, didn't ask for it because she didn't think she

> deserved it, and covered that knowledge by blaming others for not

> giving to her what she didn't ask for.

Amen. I think that sums up a lot of the KO experience. I'm wrestling

with these demons as well, and what hurts worst is that we'll never

get an answer. Ever. That would require honesty on nada's part. I'm

learning though, that sometimes knowing other people have the same

questions is more important than an answer we'll never get.

And I'm with you on helping abused kids; I'm re-examining what I'm

doing with myself as I come to terms with this. I feel obligated,

but not in the FOG sense. I'm very much ok with feeling obligated to

this. My husband and I feel Very strongly about adoption, and plan

to adopt at least one child into our family. But I Need to do

something in the meantime, and even adoption only helps one kid (not

that that's not important!!!). I'm going to start checking my area

for jobs and volunteer opportunities soon -- I don't know that I'm

stable enough today, but soon. I can't risk exposing at-risk kids to

ANY nada leftovers. Even going back to school (eventually) is not

out of the question, if it meant a way to help.

When I was just a camp counselor (several years ago), I had a knack

for finding the " problem kids " and bonding with them. No one else

really got it - these were the kids no one else wanted to deal with,

no one could understand why I almost preferred them. But (I now am

attributing this to being a KO) I knew that NONE of them could just

be outright Bad at age 6. I was a straight-up M*E*S*S at this time,

but I was still perceptive enough to find the 2 troubled ones out of

about 20.

Interesting side note: After that summer and how good I felt about

those kids, I mentioned I was thinking about going into teaching; I

got so far as investigating schools and programs and thinking about

the age I wanted to teach. I told nada, and she basically said:

" Oh, you don't want to do that. You wouldn't be happy. "

So I scrapped it. Man, I hate her.

Love,

>

> ,

>

> Reading about your experiences just makes me see red. No child

should

> be forced, by their own MF'on parent, to live in Guantanamo Bay

> conditions. That's wrong on every conceivable level, and I am so,

so

> sorry you have that for a memory. I don't know if it helps at all,

but

> I am motivated to get involved in helping out at the abused

children's

> places here in town. I've wanted to, but not made the time. Hearing

> about it from basically one of their perspectives (you) has helped

me

> to be clear--I need to do this for my own sanity. Too many people

in

> the world just don't want to fool with it. I know what THAT feels

> like, too. SO thanks for the kick in the ass.

>

> The most striking thing about your post on that was the fact that

your

> nada knew. She had to have--right? She had to have known that

plumbing

> repair was a free part of her tenancy--it would have been in the

> lease. She read the lease, right? Do you think it sunk in? I have

> these types of tormenting questions about my own nada--

>

> *how much was her being ignorant of the way the world worked

>

> *how much was her forgetting (because of utter self-absorption)

what

> she'd been told about how things worked

>

> *how much was just not giving a shit, and having to cover that with

> feigned surprise

>

> *and how much was her sadistic desire to punish me, for whatever

> psychotic transgression I'd done in her head?

>

>

> You know, I wouldn't put it past my mom to forget something as

> blaringly obvious as being entitled to having something fixed by a

> landlord, except that in her case, she was only too aware of what

> others owed her, didn't ask for it because she didn't think she

> deserved it, and covered that knowledge by blaming others for not

> giving to her what she didn't ask for. But I also wouldn't put it

past

> her to just simply withhold from me something I desperately needed,

> out of spite for some " slight " , or the lofty desire to teach me a

> lesson for being so " grasping " , or out of resentment--why should I

> ever be happy, when she couldn't be?

>

> But I was wondering--does anyone else have these puzzled feelings

> about " how could their nada not known about THAT? She had to have,

> wouldn't she? But then, why would she do________ if she knew?? "

[Guest guest]

Hey, !

I think you're exactly right about how knowing other people have the

same questions is helpful. That's why boards like these work!

As for helping children...my .02:

At this point, you might actually be able to do more of the kind of

good you seem to want to do in a camp counselor, or after-school

program, or abused-children's program situation, than as an actual

teacher. The public school system in this country is so outrageously

crazy right now, I fear you'd exhaust yourself on other aspects of the

job and have less energy to pursue the bonding you do. There are

probably al kinds of ways to help kids, especially if you take some

classes in it or go back to school. I think it's a lovely thing to do,

and as you said, an obligation I'm actually happy--proud--to have.

Love,

Vi

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Reading about your experiences just makes me see red. No child

> should

> > be forced, by their own MF'on parent, to live in Guantanamo Bay

> > conditions. That's wrong on every conceivable level, and I am so,

> so

> > sorry you have that for a memory. I don't know if it helps at all,

> but

> > I am motivated to get involved in helping out at the abused

> children's

> > places here in town. I've wanted to, but not made the time. Hearing

> > about it from basically one of their perspectives (you) has helped

> me

> > to be clear--I need to do this for my own sanity. Too many people

> in

> > the world just don't want to fool with it. I know what THAT feels

> > like, too. SO thanks for the kick in the ass.

> >

> > The most striking thing about your post on that was the fact that

> your

> > nada knew. She had to have--right? She had to have known that

> plumbing

> > repair was a free part of her tenancy--it would have been in the

> > lease. She read the lease, right? Do you think it sunk in? I have

> > these types of tormenting questions about my own nada--

> >

> > *how much was her being ignorant of the way the world worked

> >

> > *how much was her forgetting (because of utter self-absorption)

> what

> > she'd been told about how things worked

> >

> > *how much was just not giving a shit, and having to cover that with

> > feigned surprise

> >

> > *and how much was her sadistic desire to punish me, for whatever

> > psychotic transgression I'd done in her head?

> >

> >

> > You know, I wouldn't put it past my mom to forget something as

> > blaringly obvious as being entitled to having something fixed by a

> > landlord, except that in her case, she was only too aware of what

> > others owed her, didn't ask for it because she didn't think she

> > deserved it, and covered that knowledge by blaming others for not

> > giving to her what she didn't ask for. But I also wouldn't put it

> past

> > her to just simply withhold from me something I desperately needed,

> > out of spite for some " slight " , or the lofty desire to teach me a

> > lesson for being so " grasping " , or out of resentment--why should I

> > ever be happy, when she couldn't be?

> >

>

> > But I was wondering--does anyone else have these puzzled feelings

> > about " how could their nada not known about THAT? She had to have,

> > wouldn't she? But then, why would she do________ if she knew?? "

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

I am glad to hear you say that about taking a break for a little

while or going into hiding. I try to keep up with the posts but I

can't always stay on top of them all. We are renovating our house

and I can't even get to the computer some days. I want to be here

for you all like you are for me. I also feel like I get triggers and

memory recalls that send me into a serious funk and I have to take a

break from the posts. I also then get crabby with my family. So

sorry if I am not keeping up!

- you would make a fabulous teacher. From what I can tell,

the younger grades offer great opportunities to bond with the kids

more, especially at smaller schools. I have such respect for the

work that my childrens' teachers do. They are amazing.

Your nada should have fixed the toilet but I think she was worried

about someone finding out what a crappy parent she was. My bet is on

her just trying to cover her own ass. What a (in her own

words) " lazy, ungrateful little b**ch. " Your nada doesn't deserve

your heart or soul. You deserve a loving relationship with your aunt

if that is what you want. Go get it!

patinage

PS Sorry, I wouldn't usually talk that way about someone elses nada

but some of your stories are just horrible. Sometimes the slow

torture of neglect can be the most damaging abuse due to its shear

longevity.

>

> I had a couple of epiphanies while I was in hiding . . . mostly bad

> ones, but I guess they're theraputic. As Dr. Phil says, you can't

> change what you can't acknowlege. Just venting these out there,

> sorry if I repeat stuff or bore anyone.

>

> 1) The Bad Place (which is what I've now decided to call the

> apartment where nada abandoned me) and all that time, that whole

> year that I had no toilet: It clogged, the plunger failed, and she

> told me we couldn't afford to have it fixed, so I'd just have to

> live with it like that (SHE didn't, of course, but you've heard

that

> rant). Guys, we had a landlord. What landlord refuses to fix his

own

> plumbing, as he is obligated by law to do? In HIS house, no less!

It

> wasn't our responsibility to fix, period. One phone call, or a

knock

> on the door (30 ft. away - WOAH!), and a plumber would have been

> there that day. It could have all been over, and for FREE. We

> probably would have even gotten a discount on rent for the

> inconvenience. For my part, I did at least suggest that we ask him

> to call a plumber (repeatedly), but she told me one of two lies: 1)

> it's too expensive and 2) I was a lazy, ungrateful little b**ch who

> had made such a mess, no serviceperson should have to walk around

in

> it. She could have made it stop.

>

> 2) She has been undermining my relationship with my aunt (who I

> really, really wish was my mom) since pretty much forever. And now

> that relationship is gone beyond repair.

>

> Sorry, had to vent.

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Vi, I agree about teaching vs. getting involved with a more direct

group. ly, playing nice with the overwhelming amount

of " parents who aren't Really abusive but just Don't care " and the

politics (I don't believe in tenure, so there you go) kind of rules

out public school right now.

It was just the point that I'd found something really nice and

stable that made me feel good and I was taking steps toward pursuing

it, but it wasn't " good enough " for me (me, of course being NADA). I

told her I wanted to be able to be home with my family when the time

came, and that about put her through the roof. In retrospect, I

seriously can't imagine ANY parent telling their kid that teaching

was a " bad " profession, or a bad choice. Low-pay, long hours, hard

work, difficult people - sure; but can't parents take pride in their

kids particpating in one of the noblest professions on earth? BAD?

wtf??????

In my fantasy world where I have unlimited resources and a society

that will accept the need for/creation of it, I open a halfway house

for KO's who need somewhere - anywhere - to go, whether it's for a

weekend or until you're 18.

*hugs*

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > Reading about your experiences just makes me see red. No child

> > should

> > > be forced, by their own MF'on parent, to live in Guantanamo Bay

> > > conditions. That's wrong on every conceivable level, and I am

so,

> > so

> > > sorry you have that for a memory. I don't know if it helps at

all,

> > but

> > > I am motivated to get involved in helping out at the abused

> > children's

> > > places here in town. I've wanted to, but not made the time.

Hearing

> > > about it from basically one of their perspectives (you) has

helped

> > me

> > > to be clear--I need to do this for my own sanity. Too many

people

> > in

> > > the world just don't want to fool with it. I know what THAT

feels

> > > like, too. SO thanks for the kick in the ass.

> > >

> > > The most striking thing about your post on that was the fact

that

> > your

> > > nada knew. She had to have--right? She had to have known that

> > plumbing

> > > repair was a free part of her tenancy--it would have been in

the

> > > lease. She read the lease, right? Do you think it sunk in? I

have

> > > these types of tormenting questions about my own nada--

> > >

> > > *how much was her being ignorant of the way the world worked

> > >

> > > *how much was her forgetting (because of utter self-

absorption)

> > what

> > > she'd been told about how things worked

> > >

> > > *how much was just not giving a shit, and having to cover that

with

> > > feigned surprise

> > >

> > > *and how much was her sadistic desire to punish me, for

whatever

> > > psychotic transgression I'd done in her head?

> > >

> > >

> > > You know, I wouldn't put it past my mom to forget something as

> > > blaringly obvious as being entitled to having something fixed

by a

> > > landlord, except that in her case, she was only too aware of

what

> > > others owed her, didn't ask for it because she didn't think she

> > > deserved it, and covered that knowledge by blaming others for

not

> > > giving to her what she didn't ask for. But I also wouldn't put

it

> > past

> > > her to just simply withhold from me something I desperately

needed,

> > > out of spite for some " slight " , or the lofty desire to teach

me a

> > > lesson for being so " grasping " , or out of resentment--why

should I

> > > ever be happy, when she couldn't be?

> > >

> >

> > > But I was wondering--does anyone else have these puzzled

feelings

> > > about " how could their nada not known about THAT? She had to

have,

> > > wouldn't she? But then, why would she do________ if she knew?? "

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Patinage,

You said: <<I also feel like I get triggers and memory recalls that

send me into a serious funk and I have to take a break from the

posts. I also then get crabby with my family. >>

That was my breaking point, too. Getting crabby with my wonderful

loving husband is not an option; at least, not over nada. I'm

anxious to get it all figured out, but if I'm snapping at my " chosen

family " bc I'm raw with nada business and fleas, that's not helping

us for the future, which is where my main focus should be.

You are dead-on about nada covering her own crappy

parenting/housekeeping. She was embarrassed by the mess, I'm sure,

but - forgive me here - isn't that why you're the MOTHER? If the kid

makes a mess, you can't clear a path and yell at her later? Or

buckle down with her and clean together? Oh, right - you'd have to

be HOME.

While I appreciate your sensativity regarding nada, it doesn't

bother me one bit to hear other people outraged about this. On the

contrary, it's like being given permission to live and feel. I do

NOT talk about ANY of this with anyone (my husband knows as much as

I am ready to tell, my aunt knows a TINY bit), so it is incredibly

validating to hear that 1) yes, she was wrong and 2) no, this did

not happen to me because I am a bad, evil, worthless person. 99% of

the time I have to listen to and agree with everyone who says " she

did the best she could " or " everything she does " is for me. It makes

me sick to the bottom of my soul.

Thank you for your support; it means so much!

*hugs*

> >

> > I had a couple of epiphanies while I was in hiding . . . mostly

bad

> > ones, but I guess they're theraputic. As Dr. Phil says, you

can't

> > change what you can't acknowlege. Just venting these out there,

> > sorry if I repeat stuff or bore anyone.

> >

> > 1) The Bad Place (which is what I've now decided to call the

> > apartment where nada abandoned me) and all that time, that whole

> > year that I had no toilet: It clogged, the plunger failed, and

she

> > told me we couldn't afford to have it fixed, so I'd just have to

> > live with it like that (SHE didn't, of course, but you've heard

> that

> > rant). Guys, we had a landlord. What landlord refuses to fix his

> own

> > plumbing, as he is obligated by law to do? In HIS house, no

less!

> It

> > wasn't our responsibility to fix, period. One phone call, or a

> knock

> > on the door (30 ft. away - WOAH!), and a plumber would have been

> > there that day. It could have all been over, and for FREE. We

> > probably would have even gotten a discount on rent for the

> > inconvenience. For my part, I did at least suggest that we ask

him

> > to call a plumber (repeatedly), but she told me one of two lies:

1)

> > it's too expensive and 2) I was a lazy, ungrateful little b**ch

who

> > had made such a mess, no serviceperson should have to walk

around

> in

> > it. She could have made it stop.

> >

> > 2) She has been undermining my relationship with my aunt (who I

> > really, really wish was my mom) since pretty much forever. And

now

> > that relationship is gone beyond repair.

> >

> > Sorry, had to vent.

> > .

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

I am sorry if I came across as unsupportive. I do think teaching is

just about the noblest profession on earth, with parenting and the

life-saving professions. I know that my life would not be what it is

without the encouragement of some really great teachers, from fourth

grade to senior year of college. If that is what you wanted to do, I'

bet everyone on this board would cheer you on--unlike your

short-sighted, self-absorbed nada.

I was just trying to think of what might have the most immediate,

satisfying impact, taking into consideration what's been discussed

about the borderline-borderline (hah!) world of academia at present. I

do not think American schools will remain as messed-up as they are

right now; I think the system is heading for a crisis and feel sorry

for the students trapped in it. It is worse even than when I was a

student in the 80's-90's.

But your choices are so beautifully YOURS now. If your heart tells you

to advocate for kids and help them with bonding or mentorship, then

you deserve applause, however you choose to do it. I think you would

do well in any position of helping children--you are smart, and you

have a large heart.

Love,

Vi

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > > >

> > > > Reading about your experiences just makes me see red. No child

> > > should

> > > > be forced, by their own MF'on parent, to live in Guantanamo Bay

> > > > conditions. That's wrong on every conceivable level, and I am

> so,

> > > so

> > > > sorry you have that for a memory. I don't know if it helps at

> all,

> > > but

> > > > I am motivated to get involved in helping out at the abused

> > > children's

> > > > places here in town. I've wanted to, but not made the time.

> Hearing

> > > > about it from basically one of their perspectives (you) has

> helped

> > > me

> > > > to be clear--I need to do this for my own sanity. Too many

> people

> > > in

> > > > the world just don't want to fool with it. I know what THAT

> feels

> > > > like, too. SO thanks for the kick in the ass.

> > > >

> > > > The most striking thing about your post on that was the fact

> that

> > > your

> > > > nada knew. She had to have--right? She had to have known that

> > > plumbing

> > > > repair was a free part of her tenancy--it would have been in

> the

> > > > lease. She read the lease, right? Do you think it sunk in? I

> have

> > > > these types of tormenting questions about my own nada--

> > > >

> > > > *how much was her being ignorant of the way the world worked

> > > >

> > > > *how much was her forgetting (because of utter self-

> absorption)

> > > what

> > > > she'd been told about how things worked

> > > >

> > > > *how much was just not giving a shit, and having to cover that

> with

> > > > feigned surprise

> > > >

> > > > *and how much was her sadistic desire to punish me, for

> whatever

> > > > psychotic transgression I'd done in her head?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > You know, I wouldn't put it past my mom to forget something as

> > > > blaringly obvious as being entitled to having something fixed

> by a

> > > > landlord, except that in her case, she was only too aware of

> what

> > > > others owed her, didn't ask for it because she didn't think she

> > > > deserved it, and covered that knowledge by blaming others for

> not

> > > > giving to her what she didn't ask for. But I also wouldn't put

> it

> > > past

> > > > her to just simply withhold from me something I desperately

> needed,

> > > > out of spite for some " slight " , or the lofty desire to teach

> me a

> > > > lesson for being so " grasping " , or out of resentment--why

> should I

> > > > ever be happy, when she couldn't be?

> > > >

> > >

> > > > But I was wondering--does anyone else have these puzzled

> feelings

> > > > about " how could their nada not known about THAT? She had to

> have,

> > > > wouldn't she? But then, why would she do________ if she knew?? "

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, ou said:

" I do NOT talk about ANY of this with anyone (my husband knows as much

as I am ready to tell, my aunt knows a TINY bit), so it is incredibly

validating to hear that 1) yes, she was wrong and 2) no, this did not

happen to me because I am a bad, evil, worthless person. "

I'd say it happened because your NADA is a sick, worthless mother. I

am sorry if it sounds harsh, but it is true. What else would she have

to have done to have proven to the world at large that her mother card

was, as kyla says, torn up??

" 99% of the time I have to listen to and agree with everyone who says

" she did the best she could " or " everything she does " is for me. It

makes me sick to the bottom of my soul. "

I feel your pain. What is it about hearing things like that that is so

sickening? If that was indeed the " best " your nada could do (which I

DO NOT believe it was), then she was utterly unqulaified to be a

mother, and frankly belonged in care herself. Everything she did was

to feed the black hole inside her, not " for you " .

Outsiders tell themselves lies about what they hear you say, because

they're not equipped to handle the truth of your experience. They tell

themselves lies, and then push them forcibly on you, uncaring of the

guilt and alienation their words make you feel.

99% of THEM would not have been able to stomach seeing what you went

through done to a child--let alone being able to survive it

themselves. They want to feel strong in the face of hearing about such

horror, so they speak bullshit. YOU are the strong one, not your

disbelievers. Never forget that.

Love always,

Vi

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Isn't it so nice to have a safe place like this to come to and feel

like we can share what we are really feeling without being judged? I

am saddened but also more realistic about what to expect from people

after my decision to go NC with nada. I definitely found out who my

friends really are. I was also surprised that some were simply

appauld at my decision and one couldn't believe what I was telling

her. Despite our years of friendship, this one friend also had my

fada as her minister so she just couldn't wrap her head around the

things I tried to share with her. She called a couple days ago after

us not talking for a almost a year. She wanted to get together but I

just didn't have it in me. I don't want or need more invalidation.

As I lift the FOG of my padas, I also lift the FOG from the other

areas of my life and it feels so wonderful. I am starting to see the

light on the other side of the FOG.

Peace,

patinage

> > >

> > > I had a couple of epiphanies while I was in hiding . . . mostly

> bad

> > > ones, but I guess they're theraputic. As Dr. Phil says, you

> can't

> > > change what you can't acknowlege. Just venting these out there,

> > > sorry if I repeat stuff or bore anyone.

> > >

> > > 1) The Bad Place (which is what I've now decided to call the

> > > apartment where nada abandoned me) and all that time, that

whole

> > > year that I had no toilet: It clogged, the plunger failed, and

> she

> > > told me we couldn't afford to have it fixed, so I'd just have

to

> > > live with it like that (SHE didn't, of course, but you've heard

> > that

> > > rant). Guys, we had a landlord. What landlord refuses to fix

his

> > own

> > > plumbing, as he is obligated by law to do? In HIS house, no

> less!

> > It

> > > wasn't our responsibility to fix, period. One phone call, or a

> > knock

> > > on the door (30 ft. away - WOAH!), and a plumber would have

been

> > > there that day. It could have all been over, and for FREE. We

> > > probably would have even gotten a discount on rent for the

> > > inconvenience. For my part, I did at least suggest that we ask

> him

> > > to call a plumber (repeatedly), but she told me one of two

lies:

> 1)

> > > it's too expensive and 2) I was a lazy, ungrateful little b**ch

> who

> > > had made such a mess, no serviceperson should have to walk

> around

> > in

> > > it. She could have made it stop.

> > >

> > > 2) She has been undermining my relationship with my aunt (who I

> > > really, really wish was my mom) since pretty much forever. And

> now

> > > that relationship is gone beyond repair.

> > >

> > > Sorry, had to vent.

> > > .

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Aw, thanks Vi.

For the record, you didn't come across as unsupportive at all.

Input and opinions are just fine and dandy with me; you will

probably never find anyone who loves a good healthy debate more

(maybe as much, but probably not more - lol). The key word

is " healthy " -- I just didn't appreciate being told flat-out that it

was stupid and I would not " take to it. "

I agree with you 100% about public school too -- I should mention

that in my perfect world, I am also homeschooling my own kids, bc I

am so appalled by what is happening in public education (esp. in my

state, it's disgraceful right now).

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I always value your opinion

and I am rarely offended by anyone (and never on this board!), so

opine away.

*hugs*

> > > > >

> > > > > ,

> > > > >

> > > > > Reading about your experiences just makes me see red. No

child

> > > > should

> > > > > be forced, by their own MF'on parent, to live in

Guantanamo Bay

> > > > > conditions. That's wrong on every conceivable level, and I

am

> > so,

> > > > so

> > > > > sorry you have that for a memory. I don't know if it helps

at

> > all,

> > > > but

> > > > > I am motivated to get involved in helping out at the

abused

> > > > children's

> > > > > places here in town. I've wanted to, but not made the

time.

> > Hearing

> > > > > about it from basically one of their perspectives (you)

has

> > helped

> > > > me

> > > > > to be clear--I need to do this for my own sanity. Too many

> > people

> > > > in

> > > > > the world just don't want to fool with it. I know what

THAT

> > feels

> > > > > like, too. SO thanks for the kick in the ass.

> > > > >

> > > > > The most striking thing about your post on that was the

fact

> > that

> > > > your

> > > > > nada knew. She had to have--right? She had to have known

that

> > > > plumbing

> > > > > repair was a free part of her tenancy--it would have been

in

> > the

> > > > > lease. She read the lease, right? Do you think it sunk in?

I

> > have

> > > > > these types of tormenting questions about my own nada--

> > > > >

> > > > > *how much was her being ignorant of the way the world

worked

> > > > >

> > > > > *how much was her forgetting (because of utter self-

> > absorption)

> > > > what

> > > > > she'd been told about how things worked

> > > > >

> > > > > *how much was just not giving a shit, and having to cover

that

> > with

> > > > > feigned surprise

> > > > >

> > > > > *and how much was her sadistic desire to punish me, for

> > whatever

> > > > > psychotic transgression I'd done in her head?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You know, I wouldn't put it past my mom to forget

something as

> > > > > blaringly obvious as being entitled to having something

fixed

> > by a

> > > > > landlord, except that in her case, she was only too aware

of

> > what

> > > > > others owed her, didn't ask for it because she didn't

think she

> > > > > deserved it, and covered that knowledge by blaming others

for

> > not

> > > > > giving to her what she didn't ask for. But I also wouldn't

put

> > it

> > > > past

> > > > > her to just simply withhold from me something I

desperately

> > needed,

> > > > > out of spite for some " slight " , or the lofty desire to

teach

> > me a

> > > > > lesson for being so " grasping " , or out of resentment--why

> > should I

> > > > > ever be happy, when she couldn't be?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > But I was wondering--does anyone else have these puzzled

> > feelings

> > > > > about " how could their nada not known about THAT? She had

to

> > have,

> > > > > wouldn't she? But then, why would she do________ if she

knew?? "

> > > >

> > >

> >

>