Re: Newby question

[Guest guest]

Hello and welcome -- better late than never! I'm 44 and just

discovered this stuff last year -- there are several posters here

who are older and just now realizing what they have been dealing

with all these years. There are also fortunate souls here who are

very young and waking up to the BPDs in their lives....

Yes, I have struggled with the same thing -- to this day. I have

all sorts of dreams and through my younger years, really didn't

follow through on tasks and goals. I've gotten better -- but I

still struggle with being overwhelmed by getting organized and

finishing what I start. It burdens me every single day.

Of all people, my mother taught me that if you're feeling

overwhelmed -- that's there's so much to do you don't know where to

start -- just start one small thing and finish it.

I did manage to graduate from college, am raising two great kids,

and this year I've run two marathons! Those are the things I tend

to overlook in my melancholy. Even my son pointed out that I make

pronouncements ( " You guys are going to start making your beds every

morning and straightening your beds before school. " ) -- and he

said " We never do it " .....and he's right. I just give up too easily.

So, don't lose heart -- life has its continual struggles. Just

recognizing that you have identified a weak spot in your life is the

first step to conquering it.

But, I certainly can identify with what you described.....I let it

get me down all the time. I need to conquer that one, too!

{hugs}

Kyla

>

> hi there. new to this world; both the realisation that my father

was bp

> and to the list. weird getting to this point at almost 45, but

better

> late than never?

>

> is there anyone that has found it hard to achieve in life. i tend

to

> have dreams and decide to make them goals. create the pretty

pictures

> and how to get there and then lapse into not doing anything, then

> depression, then aaaggghhh! finding a home in eastern philosophy

has

> helped and i sense that as i learn and apply more, the pattern

will

> disappear. was wondering though whether this is a trend in nonBP's

or

> whether i'm just born lazy!?

>

[Guest guest]

I am not sure if this is a non-BP trend, but I AM sure that this is

not laziness. I have to deal with my own behavior that can be

called 'lazy' by some people. I know I am not lazy - I know that I

have certain difficulties in completing tasks, but it is NOT due to

laziness. I really believe that people are not lazy, but are

constrained by issues that have to be dealt with before tasks can be

completed. Please try to stop putting yourself down by calling

yourself lazy.

Sylvia

>

> hi there. new to this world; both the realisation that my father

was bp

> and to the list. weird getting to this point at almost 45, but

better

> late than never?

>

> is there anyone that has found it hard to achieve in life. i tend

to

> have dreams and decide to make them goals. create the pretty

pictures

> and how to get there and then lapse into not doing anything, then

> depression, then aaaggghhh! finding a home in eastern philosophy

has

> helped and i sense that as i learn and apply more, the pattern

will

> disappear. was wondering though whether this is a trend in nonBP's

or

> whether i'm just born lazy!?

>

[Guest guest]

I have lately been thinking to myself that I am a huge quitter.

I give up super easy on everything.

Why?

Maybe I'm just lazy?

I don't know. I did get a lot of messages from my hermit nada that

life is just one big suck-ball, so why bother? Big deal, you lost

weight! You'll just gain it back like everyone else does!

I guess I can't blame her forever though.

But I think my perception is skewed. I usually feel like I am a

failure and a huge loser. I often play out goals/dreams in my head.

Here's how it goes: " Wow! That would be cool! Yeah, I should do

that! But how will I? Well, if I do this, then that'll happen, then

this and then that and this will be difficult and then there's that

and this could happen and then this could destroy everything and then

it probably won't work so....ah! Fuck it! "

And it really hurts. It's like a little gremlin hears I'm having a

bright, hopeful dream and it runs in to tell me that I can't have it,

and it pulls it from my head.

Since going NC with nada, I am feeling less stuck. And the NSA is

helping me to feel less stuck.

But the other stuff is such a *habit*.

I swear, I could look at a 45 year old man who works at 's and

lives in a trailer and say, " he's making an honest living. It's

nothing to be ashamed of.

Then I look at myself, townhome owner, career, marketable skills,

making it on my own, but I just feel like I am a total failure at life

because I don't have a man, or a best friend.

-Deanna

>

> hi there. new to this world; both the realisation that my father was bp

> and to the list. weird getting to this point at almost 45, but better

> late than never?

>

> is there anyone that has found it hard to achieve in life. i tend to

> have dreams and decide to make them goals. create the pretty pictures

> and how to get there and then lapse into not doing anything, then

> depression, then aaaggghhh! finding a home in eastern philosophy has

> helped and i sense that as i learn and apply more, the pattern will

> disappear. was wondering though whether this is a trend in nonBP's or

> whether i'm just born lazy!?

>

[Guest guest]

Dharmasearchee,

I like your screen name. You’ve brought up an issue

that, for me, is one of the most powerful and

upsetting there is. First, I absolutely believe that

anyone who asks, “whether [they’re] just born lazy!?”

is NOT and WAS NOT born lazy. Lazy people don’t

bother to ask that kind of question in the first

place! When I used to ask myself that, I always had

the feeling that I wasn’t lazy and that something else

was going on to explain why I MASSIVELY underachieved.

The answer for me seems to be that not only wasn’t I

supposed to say, do, think or feel ANYthing that my

nada or FOO didn’t want me to say, do, think or feel,

but that I wasn’t even ENTITLED to say, do, think or

feel anything they didn’t want me to. Their

unconscious reason seems to have been that they OWNED

me, so who was I to have my own EXISTENCE, let alone

any thoughts or feelings about it? My parents acted

like the old Bill Cosby joke: they brought me into

this world, and they could take me out of it! What

kind of parent puts that kind of fear into a CHILD’s

head?

Like many people, I battle every day, in almost any

given moment, to stop sliding into denial about my

RIGHT to exist. I fight the impulse to start

minimizing, undermining, diverting, wasting, giving up

and destroying my own identity, power, natural

impulses, basic human instinct, desires to actualize,

and efforts to achieve my goals and follow my dreams –

which is exactly what my FOO did to me. This is a

battle for my very soul and it’s exhausting. There

are people in this group who are precious to me

because they’ve helped me have a taste of what I can

do and who I can be that pushes the envelope of what

I’d thought possible even after many years of

self-help books, tapes and therapy, and that is

galaxies away from what my FOO brainwashed into my

subconscious.

H*** no, you’re not lazy and neither am I. We’ve just

begun to reach out toward our potential. I’ll keep

coming back here and posting about my progress and I

hope you will, too.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- kylaboo728 wrote:

> Hello and welcome -- better late than never! I'm 44

> and just

> discovered this stuff last year -- there are several

> posters here

> who are older and just now realizing what they have

> been dealing

> with all these years. There are also fortunate

> souls here who are

> very young and waking up to the BPDs in their

> lives....

>

> Yes, I have struggled with the same thing -- to this

> day. I have

> all sorts of dreams and through my younger years,

> really didn't

> follow through on tasks and goals. I've gotten

> better -- but I

> still struggle with being overwhelmed by getting

> organized and

> finishing what I start. It burdens me every single

> day.

>

> Of all people, my mother taught me that if you're

> feeling

> overwhelmed -- that's there's so much to do you

> don't know where to

> start -- just start one small thing and finish it.

>

> I did manage to graduate from college, am raising

> two great kids,

> and this year I've run two marathons! Those are the

> things I tend

> to overlook in my melancholy. Even my son pointed

> out that I make

> pronouncements ( " You guys are going to start making

> your beds every

> morning and straightening your beds before school. " )

> -- and he

> said " We never do it " .....and he's right. I just

> give up too easily.

>

> So, don't lose heart -- life has its continual

> struggles. Just

> recognizing that you have identified a weak spot in

> your life is the

> first step to conquering it.

>

> But, I certainly can identify with what you

> described.....I let it

> get me down all the time. I need to conquer that

> one, too!

>

> {hugs}

> Kyla

>

>

>

>

> >

> > hi there. new to this world; both the realisation

> that my father

> was bp

> > and to the list. weird getting to this point at

> almost 45, but

> better

> > late than never?

> >

> > is there anyone that has found it hard to achieve

> in life. i tend

> to

> > have dreams and decide to make them goals. create

> the pretty

> pictures

> > and how to get there and then lapse into not doing

> anything, then

> > depression, then aaaggghhh! finding a home in

> eastern philosophy

> has

> > helped and i sense that as i learn and apply more,

> the pattern

> will

> > disappear. was wondering though whether this is a

> trend in nonBP's

> or

> > whether i'm just born lazy!?

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

Oh good gracious no, I don't think you're lazy. I really do think it

is a normal KO trait. I've dealt with similar things--having goals and

dreams that peter out into apathetic depresion. After a lot of

thinking, I have concluded that that tendency comes from three things,

for me anyway:

1. The " what's the use? " feeling.

This can be well-hidden. I personally never thought I was the " kind of

person " who could feel that way, but the hopelessness and doomed

feeling of being a KO goes bone-deep. In our upbringing, we learned

that there was no point trying--it wouldn't work anyway, and we'd just

get punished for aiming at something. Either it would be in a

direction that our nada wouldn't approve of, and she'd shut it down;

or it would be a direction she approved of, and we'd be competition.

So why bother with anything? I think one of the telltales is quitting

before you even start. That abortive despair is a classic.

2. Lack of strong life force in general.

I think we train ourselves to damp down our inner fire, so as to

become less of a target for our nadas. To threaten them less, and

experience less hostility and mockery, we " dial ourselves down " to the

point where even our *impulses* to act are weakened, as a preemptive

defense. I've done this to the point of (in my opinion) developing

hypothyroidism. A sadults, it takes time to feel safe building the

inner blaze back up to normal, to feel like you won't be attacked just

for burning at your normal brightness. I personally needed to go NC

before I could do that.

3. Feeling a need to hide your aims.

This is something I just figured out about myself last night. My nada

had a " sixth sense " about what I was going for, and the more something

meant to me, the more at risk it was of her sabotaging it. It was one

thing for me to be able to identify my wants and dreams in my head,

and to plan goals. But I felt tremendous discomfort actually " taking

aim " at something in the real world. I felt strongly like I needed to

disguise my aims. Sometimes I feigned indifference to them so well, I

actually DID lose interest in them. I could lay plans, but as soon as

I moved in their direction, she'd figure out what I was aiming for and

f-k it up, and mock my failure. I have had, in adulthood, an

irrational fear that the second I take one step towards my goals, the

darkness that's continuously watching me will step in and destroy them.

Whatever is the reason for your fears and apathy, you need to be

patient with yourself and keep trying. Feel the fear and do it anyway,

as others have said. If your nada is actually not in a position to

harm your goals, then your self-defeat is all in your head, and

therefore can be changed. Pursuing small goals with success will lead

to the confidence and desire to follow through with larger dreams. I

wish you luck with all you want to do...

Love,

Vi

>

> hi there. new to this world; both the realisation that my father was bp

> and to the list. weird getting to this point at almost 45, but better

> late than never?

>

> is there anyone that has found it hard to achieve in life. i tend to

> have dreams and decide to make them goals. create the pretty pictures

> and how to get there and then lapse into not doing anything, then

> depression, then aaaggghhh! finding a home in eastern philosophy has

> helped and i sense that as i learn and apply more, the pattern will

> disappear. was wondering though whether this is a trend in nonBP's or

> whether i'm just born lazy!?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Deanna and all of us other 'lazy quitters,'

For years I thought that I was both lazy and a quitter. Also, I was pretty

certain that the reason I struggled so much on the job market was that I was

lazy and a quitter, not to mention that I had (stupidly) aligned myself with the

wrong people (I'm in academia, so contacts are extremely important). But then I

found some activities where I was neither lazy nor a quitter. For instance, I

run and it wasn't something that came easily or naturally to me. I have to work

hard at it, but I've got a schedule and I'm sticking to it. Every day that I go

out is an accomplishment. I finished a dissertation and got my graduate degree.

I rowed (and nothing tests your will like rowing as far as I'm concerned...it's

hard and a struggle AND at ridiculous hours in the morning!). Yes, sometimes I

do sit around being lazy, but that's normal. In fact, really lazy people don't

even question it!

If something is very important to you, you won't be lazy about it. It's a

question of finding out what that something is. Also, I think several points of

my 'lazy' were caused either by being exhausted mentally and emotionally or

depressed. Outside factors can be incredibly important in being productive.

That's where I think there is a lot of commonality with those of us raised by

BPDs; so much of our mental energy is taken up with them that we don't have time

for ourselves. Once we break away and take time for ourselves, we can discover

our potential, though, it's amazing to see how much more can be accomplished.

is

PS - Deanna, I just watched 'Briget ' Diary'...I am taking solace in the

fact that she did not get the man until she took care of herself!

---------------------------------

Get your own web address.

Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Hi!

Deanna, you sound like you are living your dream - good for you. You

deserve it and deserve to enjoy it.

Vi - I think your 3 things in the next post are right on.

I just had a thought while answering Kyla's post on NC. A revelation

for me. Maybe you have all figured this out but here goes...

First, I can totally related to this thread. I can sabotage the best

laid plans for myself with one fleating doubt. WE NEED TO STOP DOING

OUR NADAS WORK FOR THEM!!!! She has trained us so well to not only

take care of her emotional needs, carry her burdens and allow her to

throw all her crap onto us but even worse she has trained us to

sabotage ourselves so that is one less thing she has to worry about

and she can get back to whining about her own problems.

Maybe this is a very knee-jerk way of thinking about this but it is

very motivating to me to stop doing it.

patinage

PS. WE ARE NOT LAZY. We all rock and even if we haven't

accomplished our dreams yet, we all have the ability to within us.

> >

> > hi there. new to this world; both the realisation that my father

was bp

> > and to the list. weird getting to this point at almost 45, but

better

> > late than never?

> >

> > is there anyone that has found it hard to achieve in life. i tend

to

> > have dreams and decide to make them goals. create the pretty

pictures

> > and how to get there and then lapse into not doing anything, then

> > depression, then aaaggghhh! finding a home in eastern philosophy

has

> > helped and i sense that as i learn and apply more, the pattern

will

> > disappear. was wondering though whether this is a trend in

nonBP's or

> > whether i'm just born lazy!?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I just watched it, too! I LOVE that movie -- so cute and so true

that she finally took care of herself, let the guy go, and he came

back....

-Kyla

>

> Hi Deanna and all of us other 'lazy quitters,'

>

> For years I thought that I was both lazy and a quitter. Also, I

was pretty certain that the reason I struggled so much on the job

market was that I was lazy and a quitter, not to mention that I had

(stupidly) aligned myself with the wrong people (I'm in academia, so

contacts are extremely important). But then I found some activities

where I was neither lazy nor a quitter. For instance, I run and it

wasn't something that came easily or naturally to me. I have to

work hard at it, but I've got a schedule and I'm sticking to it.

Every day that I go out is an accomplishment. I finished a

dissertation and got my graduate degree. I rowed (and nothing tests

your will like rowing as far as I'm concerned...it's hard and a

struggle AND at ridiculous hours in the morning!). Yes, sometimes I

do sit around being lazy, but that's normal. In fact, really lazy

people don't even question it!

>

> If something is very important to you, you won't be lazy about

it. It's a question of finding out what that something is. Also, I

think several points of my 'lazy' were caused either by being

exhausted mentally and emotionally or depressed. Outside factors

can be incredibly important in being productive. That's where I

think there is a lot of commonality with those of us raised by BPDs;

so much of our mental energy is taken up with them that we don't

have time for ourselves. Once we break away and take time for

ourselves, we can discover our potential, though, it's amazing to

see how much more can be accomplished.

>

> is

>

> PS - Deanna, I just watched 'Briget ' Diary'...I am taking

solace in the fact that she did not get the man until she took care

of herself!

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Get your own web address.

> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Fellow " slugs "

I love this thread about laziness and the inability to accomplish

what we would like. I would like to add a contribution. A couple

days ago I read this awesome article on the Squalor Survivors site:

http://www.squalorsurvivors.com/overcoming/yourself/demand-

resistance.shtml

A short quote:

" The constant demands and rules of perfectionist parents can leave

their offspring with a legacy of resentment towards any kind of

authority, including their own inner wishes. Our angry two-year-old

Inner Child prevents our Adult Self from taking control of our grown-

up lives.

Furthermore, because of early conditioning we may habitually confuse

I want with I should. "

Well, that is exactly what happens to me. As soon as I decide to do

something, it becomes a chore, and I have to force myself to do it.

I loved graduate school, but nearly didn't finish because I couldn't

stay on task to finish my thesis. This got exponentially worse as I

got closer to the deadline and I felt pressure to hurry up and get

it done. I am chronically late, even to things I want to go to.

Whenever I plan to participate in something, as soon as I make the

commitment, even just in my own mind, I start resenting the

constraints on my time. What this article recommends, and I have to

do, is remind myself that this is something I want to do, and remind

myself why I decided to do it. (And make sure it really is

something I want to do. If not, why am I doing it at all?) I want

to write, but I have to make myself sit down and do it. I love

singing in the church choir, but I have to remind myself of that

when it is time to go to rehearsal and I am procrastinating and

making myself late.

It reminds me of the frustration I felt as a child when Mom would

take over some project of mine – like competing in a spelling bee –

and make it her project. She followed me around with word lists,

constantly drilling me as if she were the one competing. (But she

was!) When I decide to do something, I have to make sure my inner

Mom doesn't take over the project. I have to remind her that this

is my project, not hers!

Lazily,

> >

> > hi there. new to this world; both the realisation that my father

> was bp

> > and to the list. weird getting to this point at almost 45, but

> better

> > late than never?

> >

> > is there anyone that has found it hard to achieve in life. i

tend

> to

> > have dreams and decide to make them goals. create the pretty

> pictures

> > and how to get there and then lapse into not doing anything,

then

> > depression, then aaaggghhh! finding a home in eastern philosophy

> has

> > helped and i sense that as i learn and apply more, the pattern

> will

> > disappear. was wondering though whether this is a trend in

nonBP's

> or

> > whether i'm just born lazy!?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Deanna, I have those feelings sometimes too and here's the explanation for it

I've come up with. If you have a rat in a maze and continually let him move a

few paces, then block the path in each direction over and over, eventually you

can remove all obstacles because he will no longer move in any direction. He

has learned that all paths lead to failure and frustration, so he no longer

tries. Hermit nadas - maybe all BPD parents - are adept at blocking paths. You

come too close, she shoves away. You pull away, she draws you close. You say

the sky is blue, she says the sky is " almost blue " ...and on and on. The things

that are " good " become failures when we do them...she terms them a 'success'

when accomplished by others and a 'shortcoming' when done by us. (For example,

the neighbors are " productive and hardworking " when they buy a new car. We are

" pretentious and think too much of possessions " when we buy the exact same car).

Eventually, we 'learn' that every path

is blocked, so we sit down, getting depressed and frustrated because we know

that we should be moving (blocked rivers become stagnant), yet we lack the

courage and energy to try again and chance meeting yet another blocked path. My

own solution to this was to determine what I considered an accomplishment ( like

a clean window), then actually wash the window and pat myself on the back ( " Look

what a clean window! The person who did this must be a success! " ). I may even

take a 'before' and 'after' picture of the window and tape it up for me to see

and admire. Gradually one window became two, two became 4, and 4 became all the

windows, then the windows became the kitchen and the kitchen became the bedrooms

and - you get the idea. After awhile, I discovered that I had formed my own

criteria for " success " and I wrote it down: " A Successful Person -- " and filled

in the criteria I had discovered for myself.

I used it as a check list for myself and felt good about myself every time I

had accomplished something on that list. Two important notes are to make the

list about everyday stuff - smiling in the morning, cleaning the kitchen,

getting to work on time, paying your bills on time, etc. and *especially* don't

tell anybody what's on your Success List. I learned that they will 'tweak' it

and you'll be back at square one. It's your own secret. I discovered that when

I began to feel successful by my own definitions, this rat was ready to run a

few mazes - this time the ones that I set up. They became fun challenges instead

of certain failures, and even when I fell, it was easier to remember the 99

things I did right instead of the one thing I did wrong. Hope it helps.

-Leslye

vegdeanna wrote:

I have lately been thinking to myself that I am a huge quitter.

I give up super easy on everything.

Why?

Maybe I'm just lazy?

I don't know. I did get a lot of messages from my hermit nada that

life is just one big suck-ball, so why bother? Big deal, you lost

weight! You'll just gain it back like everyone else does!

I guess I can't blame her forever though.

But I think my perception is skewed. I usually feel like I am a

failure and a huge loser. I often play out goals/dreams in my head.

Here's how it goes: " Wow! That would be cool! Yeah, I should do

that! But how will I? Well, if I do this, then that'll happen, then

this and then that and this will be difficult and then there's that

and this could happen and then this could destroy everything and then

it probably won't work so....ah! Fuck it! "

And it really hurts. It's like a little gremlin hears I'm having a

bright, hopeful dream and it runs in to tell me that I can't have it,

and it pulls it from my head.

Since going NC with nada, I am feeling less stuck. And the NSA is

helping me to feel less stuck.

But the other stuff is such a *habit*.

I swear, I could look at a 45 year old man who works at 's and

lives in a trailer and say, " he's making an honest living. It's

nothing to be ashamed of.

Then I look at myself, townhome owner, career, marketable skills,

making it on my own, but I just feel like I am a total failure at life

because I don't have a man, or a best friend.

-Deanna

>

> hi there. new to this world; both the realisation that my father was bp

> and to the list. weird getting to this point at almost 45, but better

> late than never?

>

> is there anyone that has found it hard to achieve in life. i tend to

> have dreams and decide to make them goals. create the pretty pictures

> and how to get there and then lapse into not doing anything, then

> depression, then aaaggghhh! finding a home in eastern philosophy has

> helped and i sense that as i learn and apply more, the pattern will

> disappear. was wondering though whether this is a trend in nonBP's or

> whether i'm just born lazy!?

>

---------------------------------

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