Guest guest Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Hello, I just received this website article about progesterone cream in my email. Being that there were some posts about progesterone, I thought I would pass it along for others to peruse if they so desire. Karin http://www.mercola.com/article/progesterone/cream.htm ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Thanks for posting that. Everywhere I look, the " natural " ones are screaming " excess estrogen. " It is good to see, though, that even Mercola is seeing the effects of P cream. The fact that it is excreted excessively in the saliva glands is really a bit comical for those who swear by saliva testing for sex hormones. What does " balancing estrogen and progesterone " mean??? If they are " balanced " you would really be OUT of balance. Val From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of userkam@... Hello, I just received this website article about progesterone cream in my email. Being that there were some posts about progesterone, I thought I would pass it along for others to peruse if they so desire. Karin http://www.mercola.com/article/progesterone/cream.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Hello, I have read some about the 'estrogen dominance' (or excess) theory. From my understanding one can be 'estrogen dominant' even with low levels of estrogen. Like you wrote Val, it is about the balancing of the estrogen/progesterone to fit each persons body (some may require higher estrogen, some lower progesterone to feel at their best). That is why it is so tricky, no 'one size fits all' in the hormone arena. I have no idea about the blood versus the saliva testing and which one is more accurate. I can only go on the tests I have had in the past. I was ovulating with a progesterone (blood) level of 2.8 (but that was when i was going through a Clomide Challenge Test). I wish I had had a saliva test at that time to see what it would have said my level was, but alas, I had not heard of it then, thus I have nothing to compare it with. What *did* catch my eye in the article was the part about adrenal functioning and the importance of getting that area on track. Sam (i think it is you who wrote you no longer have ovaries, or thyroid and had been on adrenal support), how long did it take you to get your adrenals functioning? How long did you remain on the support AND, did you notice any difference in how you were utilizing the hormones (estr/proge/thyroid) once the adrenals were up to par? (ie: requiring less or more (if any change) of which hormones?) Thanks, Karin************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 You are correct, I have no thyroid or ovaries. As far as BHRT et al, IODORAL was the key... I was on adrenal support for approximately 2 years. I started on Cortef (cortisol) and switched to Deltacortril/prednisoLone due to my adrenals being in serious shape. My adrenals healed approximately 2-3(?) months (I can't remember but it was a short time after adding Iodoral) after adding 50mg Iodoral (iodine/iodide) daily. I have been off adrenal support since early this year. I dose BHRT (P, E2, Te) entirely by symptoms (transdermals). While on adrenal support, but not on Iodoral, if I can remember correctly, I was on the following: Approx 200mg P. 2 " pumps " estrogel (approx 1.25mg?). 1 (or 2) gram 1% Testerosterone gel. I began Iodoral in Oct 2006. After adrenals healed and on 50mg Iodoral: 40mg P. BUT I have since STOPPED taking P without ANY symptosm returning. I " pump " (.60mg) estradiol. 2gm 1% testosterone gel It seems I'm using my hormones more efficiently, but still need a good hunk of testosterone. Perhaps I'm saturated with P, or perhaps my adrenals are now making the amount my body requires. Who knows. A note on saliva testing: When I was testing, at least " for me " saliva testing was right on the mark as far as reflecting how I was feeling physically. Blood testing my hormones (thyroid, adrenal, sex hormones) was an exercise in futility. Sam (thyroidless/ovaryless) ===== > Hello, I have read some about the 'estrogen dominance' (or excess) > theory. From my understanding one can be 'estrogen dominant' even with > low levels of estrogen. Like you wrote Val, it is about the balancing of > the estrogen/progesterone to fit each persons body (some may require > higher estrogen, some lower progesterone to feel at their best). That is > why it is so tricky, no 'one size fits all' in the hormone arena. I have > no idea about the blood versus the saliva testing and which one is more > accurate. I can only go on the tests I have had in the past. I was > ovulating with a progesterone (blood) level of 2.8 (but that was when i > was going through a Clomide Challenge Test). I wish I had had a saliva > test at that time to see what it would have said my level was, but alas, > I had not heard of it then, thus I have nothing to compare it with. What > *did* catch my eye in the article was the part about adrenal functioning > and the importance of getting that area on track. Sam (i think it is you > who wrote you no longer have ovaries, or thyroid and had been on adrenal > support), how long did it take you to get your adrenals functioning? How > long did you remain on the support AND, did you notice any difference in > how you were utilizing the hormones (estr/proge/thyroid) once the > adrenals were up to par? (ie: requiring less or more (if any change) of > which hormones?) Thanks, Karin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Ok, I'll answer this bit by bit... >To clarify, so I get the info. correct....You were on cortef and >then switched to a longer acting cortisol?..... Yes. The Deltacortril/prednisoLone gave me what felt like continuous support, rather than the ups and downs of Cortef. I had been grossly hypOthyroid and in horrendous shape and my adrenals were almost failed at the time I started adrenal support. >When you wrote your adrenals were healed in 2-3 months, >does that mean that was when you noticed a change?, and then >you remained on the support for 2 years?...... Hmmm, not sure how to answer this. Ok, when I take any meds I do not need or that my body does not require, I get negative physical reactions. I experimented with the other meds I was on (process of elimination), and it turned out to be the adrenal support. I went off it cold turkey and was fine for 3/4 of the day, but needed a little cortisol I think a couple of times during the first week off adrenal support. I take 11+ grains of Armour Thyroid. >How long did it take to wean off (or were you starting to wean off >after the 2-3 months and it took 2 years to wean off)? See above. I never " attempted " to wean off until I got the negative physical reactions. >I test very low in testosterone since my ovary was removed--well, >actually, it is almost undetectable. My Dr (and I agree) thinks I usually >ran quite high in testosterone based upon my muscle mass, energy, >strength, stamina, endurance, etc prior to the surgery. So, for me, >testosterone could be the next 'link'. Yes, probably. Did you not test your sex hormones before having the ovary removed? >I have read (and been told by some drs) that one requires the estrogen >to be at an optimal level prior to starting testosterone (because if the estrogen >is not up to par then some of the testosterone can be aromatized in to >estrogen to meet that need before it 'remains' as testosterone). Well, I don't know about that. Apparently when there is a lack of sex hormones, the adrenals will make " some " . I can't remember where I heard that, but it was recent, and from a very credible source. [sorry, but I just had a VERY bad doc appointment and am considering taking legal action, so I'm a little distracted] Anyone have any thoughts or experience with estrogen/testosterone in regard to the above? >Also, one more question: has anyone noticed a change in their libido >(or increased sexual sensation) after starting testosterone?... YYYYEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <drooling> Oh baby. WOWEE! >I have been told that if the estrogen level is adequate that the libido >returns, however, i have noted that it does not seem to matter if i >have a high, or a low estrogen dosage (and correlating blood levels). >Neither have an effect on my libido. My libido was missing since my healthy thyroid was destroyed in 1990, and I was off all sex hormone support. It didn't come back while I was symptom dosing Armour Thyroid, nor when I added estradiol gel, nor when I added progesterone cream. BUT when I added testosterone, my libido hit me like a ton of bricks, and it was while I was sitting at a stop light waiting to turn into a local Wal-Mart parking lot. WOOOEEEEEEE!!!!! Sam (thyroidless, ovaryless, newly doctorless, nearly Rx-less) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I think the term " estrogen dominance " was a Lee term. Perhaps during peri-menopause, estrogen may spike up and down. Once menopausal, however, you can't be estrogen dominant if you have no estrogen. The whole " balancing " stuff, to me, is a strange concept. I was dismayed to see the list of estrogen's bad effects and progesterone's good effects on the Mercola website. He's parroting Lee and much of it is not correct. Val From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of userkam@... I have read some about the 'estrogen dominance' (or excess) theory. From my understanding one can be 'estrogen dominant' even with low levels of estrogen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hi Val, Yes, I think the term 'balancing' of estrogen/progesterone can be misleading. I look at it as what works for my body (what level of estrogen works and what level of progesterone works)....and if they are off (for my body) then other issues arise. I don't think when they say 'balancing' of the two hormones they mean having the same levels (at least i hope they do not mean that! :} ). It is interesting how hormones are quite different for each person. I have a friend who gets wired on the estrogen. She feels better when she adds some progesterone daily (she has said she even notices a change in how her face appears while on the progesterone--more relaxed appearing).....for her, the 'balance' is higher estrogen than some would take, with a lower dose of progesterone taken on a daily basis. For someone else, it may be a lower level of estrogen and they do not feel they require progesterone (whether it be that their own body is making enough for them to get that 'balance', or maybe they take in more cholesterol and thus their body can utilize the cholesterol better to make the required hormone to balance it out, or, quite possibly, it could be that they were never 'high' in progesterone naturally).....who really knows the answer to it all?...... I certainly wish I did!! :} Dr Lee, Dr Mercola, Dr Formby ....they all have ideas, thoughts, 'insights' based upon their research, their focus and what they have seen work in their practice. Who is correct? I don't think any can be 100% correct for 100% of the female population just for the simple fact that what works for one woman may cause an absolutely horrendous reaction for the next. I have seen a couple of Dr's who believe progesterone is the 'way to go' and think it is the only hormone really needed.......it is certainly NOT the only one required for me.....and other Drs who think that progesterone is required daily, then others who think that it is only required for 1/2 the cycle, and then again others who believe that because I have one ovary that NO hormones are needed at all and that I should 'accept' this 'life change'...... I am just looking for the 'balance' for myself......I have done a lot of reading (which, of course each article has the authors own bias attached to it) and I take what seems to match with my body profile (what is occurring in my body in re: to the hormones)..... do the process of elimination and hope for the best!! Karin ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Lee didn't say that you lose all estrogen; he says at menopause you may have lost 40-60% of your estrogen. However, he does say that you lose nearly all of your progesterone, since you're no longer ovulating in menopause. This is a gradual thing, as we gradually quit ovulating over 10-15 years. So compared to progesterone, most women are estrogen dominant. Perhaps you are one of the ones who wasn't? I know that I surely was, which resulted in ovarian cancer. The "balancing" thing seems perfectly logical to me, as there is abundant evidence in nature that it balances itself, so why not in humans, too? The body balances itself as much as it can otherwise, trying to adapt itself to all the abuse we throw at it. On that subject of OVCA, if your doctor diagnoses an ovarian cyst, insist on a CA125 test. My result was 232 on the test, and after a left salpingo oophorectomy (left ovary removal), the biopsy (the cyst/ovary was cut into 20 pieces) showed I had cancer in two of the pieces, and I was diagnosed with adenocarcinoma Stage 1-2a, which meant that the cancer was fully engulfed by the cyst--it had not spread. Others, such as Gilda Radner, were diagnosed with CA125 test scores in the thousands, and fared much worse. OVCA is very difficult to catch early; I was very lucky and have been cancer-free for over six years now. So if you have unexplained vaginal bleeding (spotting day after day--mine went on for 79 days--at first I just figured it was part of perimenopause), bloating, feeling full quickly after eating, etc., see your doctor! Virginia <<I think the term "estrogen dominance" was a Lee term. Perhaps duringperi-menopause, estrogen may spike up and down. Once menopausal, however,you can't be estrogen dominant if you have no estrogen. The whole"balancing" stuff, to me, is a strange concept. I was dismayed to see thelist of estrogen's bad effects and progesterone' s good effects on theMercola website. He's parroting Lee and much of it is not correct.Val>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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