Re: adrenal, progesterone question

[Guest guest]

Re: Progesterone.....I didn't mean for my post to come across as not needing progesterone.....it is the systemic effect the Dr had spoken about....

That is why she had suggested Prochieve (it is a vag. gel suppository). Her idea was that I was having too much of a systemic effect from the oral progesterone (prometrium) and that utilizing the gel suppository would possibly decrease that effect while still protecting the uterus. Any body on this site tried it?.....If so, how did it pan out?

Karin

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

You can't. If you have a uterus, you have to find

some level of progesterone to protect it.

The quest for many here is to find the minimum amount of required P.

Val

From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ] On

Behalf Of Mindy Boudreau

When you are menopausal and need estrogen, how can you not take

progesterone?

[Guest guest]

Hi, Karin,

I have had the same problem as you with the progesterone. Dr. Gillespie. told me the same thing about vag. progesterone. I haven't been able to come across too many people who have used Prochieve. One person uses cyclogest from Master's Marketing with good results.

I found a Pub Med study on Crinone 4% vaginal progesterone gel but nothing else on anything else. My gynecologist says not enough studies on vaginal progesterone to warrant its usage, but I don't know. Another RL member posted me a couple of studies, but I can't find them now.

I switched to progestin because I figured that I could control the dose and thereby not get too depressed. But, today I had an ultrasound done and my endometrial stripe is 9 mm. This is not good.

I think that I may just go ahead and use vag. progesterone...see what happens.

I would feel more comfortable if many other people had used it and could report their experiences.

Colleen

Hi Colleen, I have used cyclogest, and had been told with each ultrasound that my endometrial stripe was 17 or more. (1.7). However, on D & C NO hyperplasia was found, and they now think the stripe was from adenomyosis. So apparently only the sections of the uterus involved with the adenomyosis were that thick. It's very confusing. I am still contemplating hysterectomy because the 'bleeds' are so profuse, and so painful. I have been battling this for over five years now.

My point is that apparently the cyclogest was working, at least in regard to clearing out the endometrium. The adenomyosis is another issue entirely.

GaelGet a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Karin, I have had the same problem as you with the progesterone. Dr. Gillespie. told me the same thing about vag. progesterone. I haven't been able to come across too many people who have used Prochieve. One person uses cyclogest from Master's Marketing with good results. I found a Pub Med study on Crinone 4% vaginal progesterone gel but nothing else on anything else. My gynecologist says not enough studies on vaginal progesterone to warrant its usage, but I don't know. Another RL member posted me a couple of studies, but I can't find them now. I switched to progestin because I figured that I could control the dose and thereby not get too depressed. But, today I had an ultrasound done and my endometrial stripe is 9 mm. This is not good. I think that I may just go ahead and use vag.

progesterone...see what happens. I would feel more comfortable if many other people had used it and could report their experiences. Colleen userkam@... wrote: Re: Progesterone.....I didn't mean for my post to come across as not needing progesterone.....it is the systemic effect the Dr had spoken about.... That is why she had suggested Prochieve (it is a vag. gel suppository). Her idea was that I was having too much of a systemic effect from the oral progesterone (prometrium) and that utilizing the gel suppository would possibly decrease that effect while still protecting the uterus. Any body on this site tried it?.....If so, how did it pan out? Karin ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

[Guest guest]

Hi Colleen,

I have only spoken to one woman who used Prochieve (i believe she took it when it was under the name if Crinone--?sp).....

She said she still had a systemic effect......however, since we all have different chemistry, it seems to stand that what works for one woman (or doesn't work) can have a totally different reaction in another.

I would be interested in hearing if anyone else on this site has used Prochieve (or Crinone) and how it worked for them.

Karin************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

>

I never knew what caused P issues for me. It might have been something

related to adrenal fatigue. And the P didn't help it, i.e. low

cortisol. Even when I was taking cortisol I still had intense issues

with P..... depression, MAJOR hair loss, edema to the waist, anxiety,

irritation, sleeplessness...... this happened with all forms of P.

Originally I started with Prometrium which after 42 days on 100 mg I

had to go off because of depression, weight gain, and sleep issues.

When I cycled it the problems started after 4 days. It got to the

point where the hair loss just kept going. Must have been due to the

up and down of E is my best guess. My last hope was vaginal P where I

used 20 mg compounded P. Same issues, I simply couldn't make it to

12 days stopping short after 8 or so. The edema was worse with oral.

The idea of P staying localized vaginally didn't seem to be the case

with me. The one thing that is different vaginally than with oral is

that whatever metabolites or by products that form from digestion and

liver pass are eliminated. This is a good thing to my thinking.

-AG

> Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:02 pm (PST)

> Re: Progesterone.....I didn't mean for my post to come across as

> not needing progesterone.....it is the systemic effect the Dr

> had spoken about.... That is why she had suggested Prochieve (it

> is a vag. gel suppository). Her idea was that I was having too

> much of a systemic effect from the oral progesterone

> (prometrium) and that utilizing the gel suppository would

> possibly decrease that effect while still protecting the uterus.

> Any body on this site tried it?.....If so, how did it pan out?

> Karin

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hmmm, well I was reading y'all's messages on this and noting in my head

about progesterone and belly fat. I have a little belly fat. I decided to

temporarily discontinue my wee bit of progesterone and see what happens.

I'm thyroidless but not symptomatic for hypO or hypEr-ness (I'm optimized

at a full replacement dose of Armour Thyroid). My adrenals are healed and

I am off adrenal support. So, I don't have any thyroid issues standing in

the way of balancing my sex hormones.

I've been off progesterone for a few days. The " only " thing I've noted was

a couple of times I might have had a hot flash, " maybe " (maybe it was just

hot out). I've not changed my doses of estradiol or testosterone, and I do

not have a uterus or ovaries.

I am experimenting.

Sam

[Guest guest]

I used the vaginal P for a few months and I could hardly walk. My

bones just ached and I had pain in the ovary area. I did terrible

w/transdermal P (hair loss weight gain acne) and the oral P made me

very depressed. When I first started BHRT I tried just oral P for a 3

month cycle and my testosterone went from 33 to 100. So for me P in

any form goes down the androgen route maybe because it blocks any

natural E or additional E taken.

Karin D (bigbird)

[Guest guest]

Hi, Gael, Was your stripe 17 mm? Dr. Gillespie mentioned this adenomyosis when I posted her. She said to get a second opinion on ultrasound from a radiologist. I feel that it is probably accurate, but I will do it. I am sorry to hear your bleeds are so bad. If the stripe is 17 mm, it must be extremely heavy. It's all so disheartening. I'm supposed to meet with gyno next week to discuss another D & C (3rd) or hysterectomy. I am really scared about hysterectomy, but on the other hand, since I am postmeno, I don't know if it is such a big deal. One hears so many bad stores about bladder and other problems. I mean we don't want to have new problems, right? I glad to hear that the cyclogest works, but I'm sorry that you've had to put up with this adenomyosis. Thanks, Gael. gaelgreen@... wrote: In a message dated 8/20/2007 1:31:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, colleencheney writes: Hi, Karin, I have had the same problem as you with the progesterone. Dr. Gillespie. told me the

same thing about vag. progesterone. I haven't been able to come across too many people who have used Prochieve. One person uses cyclogest from Master's Marketing with good results. I found a Pub Med study on Crinone 4% vaginal progesterone gel but nothing else on anything else. My gynecologist says not enough studies on vaginal progesterone to warrant its usage, but I don't know. Another RL member posted me a couple of studies, but I can't find them now. I switched to progestin because I figured that I could control the dose and thereby not get too depressed. But, today I had an ultrasound done and my endometrial stripe is 9 mm. This is not good. I think that I may just go ahead and use vag. progesterone...see what happens. I would feel more comfortable if many other

people had used it and could report their experiences. Colleen Hi Colleen, I have used cyclogest, and had been told with each ultrasound that my endometrial stripe was 17 or more. (1.7). However, on D & C NO hyperplasia was found, and they now think the stripe was from adenomyosis. So apparently only the sections of the uterus involved with the adenomyosis were that thick. It's very confusing. I am still contemplating hysterectomy because the 'bleeds' are so profuse, and so painful. I have been battling this for over five years now. My point is that apparently the cyclogest was working, at least in regard to clearing out the endometrium. The adenomyosis is another issue entirely. Gael Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Guest guest]

Colleen.... nothing at all. 6 months ago I had a partial hysto with

uterus only. I was so not able to use any P effectively that I

spotted/bleed daily for almost 6 months prior to... what a drag. Had

adenomyosis which I didn't know. I can tolerate a few mgs. P

sublingually, but that is about it.

-ag

> AG,

>

> What are you doing now about P?

>

> Colleen

[Guest guest]

Hi Colleen,

Yes, the stripe measured at 17cm one time and 19 another! And even after the D & C it was 17. Since hyperplasia and carcinoma were ruled out, it has been determined that it is all due to the adenomyosis.

We moved cross country and I have a new doctor now, who immediately said it looked like adenomyosis, but also wanted to do a uterine biopsy. I decided that since I had only two months before had a D & C with extensive sampling of tissue, as well as a hysteroscopy, that the biopsy would just be painful and invasive and would actually make the adeno worse, and all for nothing, so I declined.

Dr. Gillespie told me that I had adeno before anyone else did. I wrote my symptoms to her and that is what she came back with. She's really something.

Also, I had about a month without bleeding, and then the spotting started up again. It stopped when I went on the Vivelle dot patch, .1mg, so I don't know if the spotting was a low estrogen thing or not. However, the new doctor said the TVU looked like it showed adeno AND unopposed estrogen to her! Yet my estrogen levels were in the 36 range by blood test.

I stay permanently confused, and wonder what the hell I am doing, and if anyone knows what I should do!

Anyway, the upshot is that the new doctor is also telling me hysterectomy is the only way to get relief from the constant spotting and terrible progesterone bleeds I have. I hate to think of losing my uterus, and I do mean HATE to think of it. When I feel emotion, it is from that area. When I have an orgasm, I feel it very strongly in my uterus. NOT the area around it, but the uterus itself, with STRONG contractions. So you see, I am in a quandary about all of this.

Thank you for your very sweet note.

Gael, sorry to be so long-winded, but I am very emotional about this

Hi, Gael,

Was your stripe 17 mm? Dr. Gillespie mentioned this adenomyosis when I posted her. She said to get a second opinion on ultrasound from a radiologist. I feel that it is probably accurate, but I will do it.

I am sorry to hear your bleeds are so bad. If the stripe is 17 mm, it must be extremely heavy. It's all so disheartening. I'm supposed to meet with gyno next week to discuss another D & C (3rd) or hysterectomy. I am really scared about hysterectomy, but on the other hand, since I am postmeno, I don't know if it is such a big deal. One hears so many bad stores about bladder and other problems. I mean we don't want to have new problems, right?

I glad to hear that the cyclogest works, but I'm sorry that you've had to put up with this adenomyosis.

Thanks, Gael.

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Gael, I'm glad that hyperplasia and carcinoma were ruled out. I agree that having the new doctor do a biopsy seems unnecessary. Maybe he/she just likes to have his/her own results instead of relying on prev. docs and labs? What is the treatment, if any, for adenomyosis? Estrogen in the 36 range is so low. Do you feel good on the present amt. of estrogen? Dr. Gillespie is a great resource although sometimes I feel hot/cold about her responses! (Bear in mind that I've been really irritable and everything seems to bother me!) For example, I recently asked her what would be good basic questions for gyno about having hysterectomy. She responded by saying to "start at death and work backwards!" (Grrr) On the other hand, she has

given me pause in taking some actions by asking me to consider other important factors. Sexual response is so important in our relationships. The nurse practitioner told me that if I had the hysterectomy,orgasm would still occur but would be "different." Life is tough enough without have your orgasms altered! And, yet, I guess that we will have to weigh pros and cons with quality of life. I'm always saying to my sig. other "I don't know what to do." He says just "make a decision, and be done with it!" Easy for him... Take care, Gael. Colleen gaelgreen@... wrote: Hi Colleen, Yes, the stripe measured at 17cm one time and 19 another! And even after the D & C it was 17. Since hyperplasia and carcinoma were ruled out, it has been determined that it is all due to the adenomyosis. We moved cross country and I have a new doctor now, who immediately said it looked like adenomyosis, but also wanted to do a uterine biopsy. I decided that since I had only two months before had a D & C with extensive sampling of tissue, as well as a hysteroscopy, that the biopsy would just be painful and invasive and would actually make the adeno worse, and all for nothing, so I

declined. Dr. Gillespie told me that I had adeno before anyone else did. I wrote my symptoms to her and that is what she came back with. She's really something. Also, I had about a month without bleeding, and then the spotting started up again. It stopped when I went on the Vivelle dot patch, .1mg, so I don't know if the spotting was a low estrogen thing or not. However, the new doctor said the TVU looked like it showed adeno AND unopposed estrogen to her! Yet my estrogen levels were in the 36 range by blood test. I stay permanently confused, and wonder what the hell I am doing, and if anyone knows what I should do! Anyway, the upshot is that the new doctor is also telling me hysterectomy is the only way to get relief from the constant spotting and terrible progesterone bleeds I have. I hate to think

of losing my uterus, and I do mean HATE to think of it. When I feel emotion, it is from that area. When I have an orgasm, I feel it very strongly in my uterus. NOT the area around it, but the uterus itself, with STRONG contractions. So you see, I am in a quandary about all of this. Thank you for your very sweet note. Gael, sorry to be so long-winded, but I am very emotional about this In a message dated 8/21/2007 6:22:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, colleencheney writes: Hi, Gael, Was your stripe 17 mm? Dr. Gillespie mentioned this adenomyosis when I posted her. She said to get a second

opinion on ultrasound from a radiologist. I feel that it is probably accurate, but I will do it. I am sorry to hear your bleeds are so bad. If the stripe is 17 mm, it must be extremely heavy. It's all so disheartening. I'm supposed to meet with gyno next week to discuss another D & C (3rd) or hysterectomy. I am really scared about hysterectomy, but on the other hand, since I am postmeno, I don't know if it is such a big deal. One hears so many bad stores about bladder and other problems. I mean we don't want to have new problems, right? I glad to hear that the cyclogest works, but I'm sorry that you've had to put up with this adenomyosis. Thanks, Gael. Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Guest guest]

--- In rhythmicliving , Colleen Cheney

Hello Colleen,

I am sorry you are being faced with this decision. Hang in there.

It sounds like you are having a lot going on with balancing the

hormones themselves.

I would encourage you, even with the brain fog, to do as much reading

up on the possible effects of a hysterectomy.

If anything else, so you can be prepared for the outcome if that is

what you decide to pursue.

In re: to the N.P. who stated that orgasms will be 'different.' I am

wondering if she herself had a hysterectomy?.....If not, then I would

be more inclined not to listen to her, but to read from other women

what happened to them.

Her response to your question sounds somewhat 'off' to me. And when

I write 'off' I mean that it does not really give an answer, or

insight, one way or the other of what to expect.

'Different' can mean many things.

I would think you would deserve a better, more indepth, answer than

simply 'different.'

Each person reacts differently to hormones and each person has

different hormone needs. What may be too high of an estrogen dose

for one woman may end up being too low of a coverage for another.

The same goes for testosterone and progesterone, etc.

In the same sense, each women will have a different response to a

hysterectomy.

Some woman may have no problems after a hysterectomy. Some women may

have problems but never report them. Other women have dramatic life

changes.

I didn't have my uterus removed, but I had one ovary removed. It has

put me through hormone hell. Other women seem to do fine and don't

seem to miss their other ovary.

There are many things that go in to how a person is able to function

after surgery. How their ovaries are working prior to surgery. How

much hormones their ovaries are giving them after the surgery (did

the surgery effect the ovaries). How good/careful the surgeon is

(did he unwittingly clip a nerve that helps with sexual sensation?).

The other aspect of surgery is in relation to what you sign a consent

to have done.

I have read (on another website) of women going in to surgery

expecting to have their uterus removed, but coming out having their

uterus and both ovaries removed too. They gave consent to have the

ovaries removed if 'needed.' The Drs deemed (at the time of the

surgery) that they needed to be removed, and yet the path reports did

not show it was medically required. These woman wrote about how

sorry they were to have consented to such.

My bottom line is never go to a Dr who would do to you what they

would not have done to themselves.

Read up to increase your own knowledge base so you can make an

informed decision.

Doctors do not know everything, and even amongst Physicians there are

differing views on many issues.

I know you were already referred to a couple of websites by others.

Here is another site to help with your research.

http://hyster.blogspot.com/2005/table-of-contents-by-topic.html

I did also find a post about progesterone by a woman who is quite

knowledgable about hormones and all their interactions. I will try

and locate it again today and send it for you to read.

K