RE: Re:Aspie Spouse

[Guest guest]

Sorry read the other post before I read yours. Didnt mean to reapeat the asperagated thing."Life is too short to wake up with regrets. So love the people who treat you right. Forget about those who don't. Believe everything happens for a reason. If you get a chance, take it. If it changes your life, let it.Nobody said life would be easy, they just promised it would most likely beworth it."<< Having finished Atwood's book, and identifying with about 99.5% of all the emotions that the spouse goes thru, I was wondering if any other spouses of the AS have developed what I'll call the "secondary Asberger's symptoms". >>NT spouses have a term for this phenomenon, "Aspergated". As in, "I've been Aspergated."I'm not saying that it's kind or nice, just that it's common in those circles.<< I think this started as just being easier to "do it his way" and let there be less tension in things I didn't think were that important. Am I losing who I am in this relationship or is that just being married for so long or is this what happens when you are married to an aspie? >>Whether ASD is involved (or not), long-term couples often take on characteristics of each other. Some of it is motivated by practical concerns. Other times it's a

way to maintain domestic harmony.Best,~CJ

[Guest guest]

Hi, Pat,I am only a few months and a few books ahead of you.  Welcome to this group.After I " diagnosed " my AS hubbie of many years, I started to see AS everywhere -- in friends, workers, etc.  Since then, I have begun to realize that there are indeed more and more people on the spectrum in this society, AS and otherwise.  Lots of people have isolated themselves, are not able to bond with others, but cannot help it, so in a way I am less bothered by behaviors of other people.

But also, I realized much about my own behavior:  I have been co-dependent to avoid crazy and prolonged meltdowns at home and have learned the behaviors that seem to relieve stress in me (by avoiding problems with him.)  Books have suggested that the behavior I have adopted is not appropriate in some ways, but what can we do?  When so little has been written about being a spouse, we have had to create our own lives in our own way.

I wish you well.  The advice in the books is generally that if you intend to stay and make the best of things, then make a life for yourself within and around the marriage -- with outside interests and friends, family, etc.

Kathy S.

 

Although I have diagnosed my husband as an Aspie about 18 months ago, I had just used some limited internet infor and not persued much until he seemed to " accept " the diagnosis.  Iit has only been in the last 2 weeks or so we have done any reading about AS.  Having finished Atwood's book, and identifying with about 99.5% of all the emotions that the spouse goes thru, I was wondering if any other spouses of the AS have developed what I'll call the " secondary Asberger's symptoms " .  I find myself, now, feeling almost repulsed by crowds in malls, eatting the same foods over and over, and only really speaking " facts " in my relationship with my husband.  It is almost as if after 21 years of marriage, I am beginning to act like he does in some ways.  I  am just now realizing this and it almost frightens me!  At work, I still function as I always have, I believe, but it is when I get home, I almost act like he does. 

I think this started as just being easier to " do it his way " and let there be less tension in things I didn't think were that important.  Am I losing who I am in this relationship or is that just being married for so long or is this what happens when you are married to an aspie? 

 

In the other discussion line about essential oils, my aspie HATES smells.  Cooking foods (he'll tolerate baking bread and baking cookies, but Thanksgiving has tradionally be hard) esp buttery popcorn, really are difficult for him to tolerate.  He does like eucalyptus, which is only so-so for me, and I am excited to try other " earth-tone " essential oils to see if he will find these peasant or not.

 

Thanks, for the insights,

 

Pat

[Guest guest]

Well said. I wish I could explain it that way to my NT husband. In our case, he is hung up on the fact that I don’t think to do these things without prompting. He can’t seem to get past that. As if the fact that this stuff doesn’t come naturally to me means that there is no hope for our relationship. I think a lot of NT spouses feel that way, like if we really loved them, this would all come naturally. That the fact that it doesn’t is indicative of some deep-seated problem with the relationship that can’t be overcome. That’s what I’d like to add here: Having to be told these things and learn how to do this stuff DOES NOT mean that we don’t love you. It does not mean that we are incapable of being good partners in a relationship. It does not mean that there is something inherently “wrong” with us that can never be fixed. It is by no means reflective of how we actually feel. Sometimes, the expectations are a little too high in comparison to our ability to interact with others. It is probably one of the most difficult issues AS/NT partners face I’d say. My husband often makes statements to the effect of, “If you loved me the way I love you, I wouldn’t have to tell you that I need you to spend time with me and hold me. You would do it because YOU want to because you love me and you crave my companionship.” I don’t know what to say to that. It makes me feel at a loss. If only I could explain to him in a way that would satisfy him that even though I prefer time alone and have trouble, without being told specifically, in knowing when and how much attention and time I should give him… that it doesn’t mean I don’t love him. From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of Liz CademySent: Monday, November 29, 2010 1:00 PMTo: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: Re:Aspie Spouse > If you are a smart Aspie, you will LEARN the really important things to her, and do them. That is not because you understand or feel like doing them, but just that you know it is what she wants and needs. I think this statement needs to be posted, in large friendly letters, in any household where there is one (or more) Aspies.We CAN learn to comfort our partners. If we love them, we WANT to learn. But it is a learning process:- we need to be told what behaviors make you feel comforted; we can't intuit them.- we need you to let us know when you want us to comfort you.- at first, you'll need to tell us directly, " I need a silent hug right now " - then, you need to let us know what your non-verbal signals are, " When I start crying, I need comforting, that means a silent hug. " - we need feedback on when we get it right, " Thanks, that hug was just what I needed " - Finally, we need lots of practice before it becomes automatic. Expect us to learn slower than NT folk, expect us to slip up sometimes. " I really appreciate when you see I need a hug and you give me one. Next time, please don't give me advice while you're hugging me. " --Liz------------The Aspie Parent blog: http://aspergersparent.wordpress.com/SF, science, and Gifted Ed t-shirts, mugs, and other items at http://www.zazzle.com/CartesianBear*Follow my shop activity at http://twitter.com/cartesianbear

[Guest guest]

> My husband often makes statements to the effect of, “If you loved me the way I

love you, I wouldn’t have to tell you that I need you to spend time with me and

hold me. You would do it because YOU want to because you love me and you crave

my companionship.” I don’t know what to say to that.

, <insert comforting from a friend behavior of your choice> <humor>

Are you sure your husband isn't a little bit on the spectrum? Because this

sounds like the type of thing a person with weak theory of mind might say: " I

know perfectly well what I want; our minds work the same way, so she knows

perfectly well what I want. "

My Aspie husband and I occasionally say things like this to each other ... these

days, we catch ourselves most of the time and apologize. But back when we were

first married, his favorite was " I love being tickled. It feels wonderful. Liz,

why do you get so mad when I tickle you, or tease you about tickling? " It took

him several years until I made him understand that not only is tickling *not*

wonderful for me, but trying to tease me into liking it was the worst thing he

could do.

, these days, if DH comes out with one of those statements, I say " DH, I

wish I had perfect telepathy, and could know exactly what you want from me. But

I don't, so I need a signal from you. " or " DH, my sense of timing on when you

want to be held needs training. I know not to give you a hug when you have a

cooking knife in your hand, but there may be other times, with more subtle

signals. Can you teach me to read your signals better? "

Good Luck!

--Liz

------------

The Aspie Parent blog: http://aspergersparent.wordpress.com/

SF, science, and Gifted Ed t-shirts, mugs, and other items at

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[Guest guest]

Kathleen Sundmark wrote:

<< After I " diagnosed " my AS hubbie of many years, I started to see AS

everywhere -- in friends, workers, etc. Since then, I have begun to

realize that there are indeed more and more people on the spectrum in

this society, AS and otherwise. Lots of people have isolated

themselves, are not able to bond with others, but cannot help it, so in

a way I am less bothered by behaviors of other people. >>

I can so relate to seeing ASD everywhere once you become aware of it.

Yet it's important to remember that not every socially awkward,

clueless, or difficult person has ASD. Some are just socially awkward

or clueless. Some are just @$$#ole$.

<< But also, I realized much about my own behavior: I have been

co-dependent to avoid crazy and prolonged meltdowns at home and have

learned the behaviors that seem to relieve stress in me (by avoiding

problems with him.) >>

My (late) husband was also severely codependent. He was that way long

before he met me.

<< Books have suggested that the behavior I have adopted is not

appropriate in some ways, but what can we do? When so little has been

written about being a spouse, we have had to create our own lives in our

own way.

I wish you well. The advice in the books is generally that if you

intend to stay and make the best of things, then make a life for

yourself within and around the marriage -- with outside interests and

friends, family, etc. >>

Well, my own husband had an affair with an NT woman. Does that count?

Seriously, the advice offered by the books is mostly tailored for those

marriages where the ASD spouse isn't even trying to meet their partner

halfway. These recommendations are the product of desperation when

nothing else works.

Those ASD partners who are more similar to the folks Liz describes

deserve better than being written off in this way, IMO.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

Hacker wrote:

<< I wish I could explain it that way to my NT husband. In our case, he

is hung up on the fact that I don’t think to do these things without

prompting. He can’t seem to get past that. As if the fact that this

stuff doesn’t come naturally to me means that there is no hope for our

relationship. I think a lot of NT spouses feel that way, like if we

really loved them, this would all come naturally. That the fact that it

doesn’t is indicative of some deep-seated problem with the relationship

that can’t be overcome. >>

Yep. Sounds just like my husband. He was really stuck on this issue

too. For the longest time I believed him, and felt so awful and inadequate.

<< Having to be told these things and learn how to do this stuff DOES

NOT mean that we don’t love you. It does not mean that we are incapable

of being good partners in a relationship. It does not mean that there is

something inherently “wrong” with us that can never be fixed. It is by

no means reflective of how we actually feel. Sometimes, the expectations

are a little too high in comparison to our ability to interact with

others. It is probably one of the most difficult issues AS/NT partners

face I’d say. >>

I agree. With everything you said. It's so painful.

<< My husband often makes statements to the effect of, “If you loved me

the way I love you, I wouldn’t have to tell you that I need you to spend

time with me and hold me. You would do it because YOU want to because

you love me and you crave my companionship.” I don’t know what to say to

that. It makes me feel at a loss. If only I could explain to him in a

way that would satisfy him that even though I prefer time alone and have

trouble, without being told specifically, in knowing when and how much

attention and time I should give him… that it doesn’t mean I don’t love

him. >>

I can so relate, . With my husband, it was an issue of poor

self-image and emotional neediness that made his inability (to meet me

halfway) such a difficult process for him. Being angry (in the way that

codependents often become once they spend themselves completely)

certainly didn't help any.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

But being the NT with an aspie hubbie: It's really, really hard that it

has taken him sooooooooooooooooooo long to finally understand to a small

degree how his perspective is different from mine and that having to tell

him over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, ad infinitum

wears on my soul. I don't mind having to be specific but I do mind that he

minimizes what I share. It's taken 30 years for him to now agree that my

needs for social time are different and that sometimes he just has to cope.

Hadassah Lynn

[Guest guest]

Judy, you are most welcome. One ofthe things that really got in the way of me making progress was the weightof bitter years my wife had to endure because I was unable to meet heremotional needs. This turned into discussions which concentratedon my shortcomings and not dealing with my problem. It became veryhumiliating for me to iteratively discuss where I had failed to measureup, particularly in front of my daughters. This resulted in me shuttingdown often and withdrawing as I could not cope with the feelings of humiliationthese discussions caused.When I finally told my wife that everytime we tried to discuss things it led to these feelings of humiliationshe retorted that why did I not understand how she felt and what it costher to open up discussion to try to get things fixed. I do not thinkhumiliating someone is a good way to approach trying to fix anything. Butthen again maybe I was being too sensitive.In any case that was a bit of a breakthroughas I had never told my wife honestly how that made me feel. I wastrying to hide the pain I felt by avoiding it and her as it turns out. So we now have to adopt another style of interacting where we trynot to prejudge each other.Very much a work in progress, but ithelped me understand how being honest about feelings can help. Inever realised that my own feelings were that important before. Evenmore important I suspect is that we have to also make how other peoplefeel important too. Problem is we have to somehow divine how theyfeel, or break the code.Life is so interesting.Just a note on Psychologists. My wife was advised that I may not wantto change if I saw no reason to. She was also advised to make itabout me to get harmony back into the relationship. Both statementsare not what I call constructive as it reinforces the us and them syndrome. She was also advised to feel sorry forme as I had this problem. Why or how can anyone feel sorry for someonewho has forced them to live without the emotional sustenance they crave? I think the more that professional help is about relationships andhow they can improve rather than the AS itself the better. Sure,read and understand the condition but then get on with trying to live purposefullives that are at least parallel in nature rather than different directions. Concentrating on the AS is pointless in my opinion. Just my own musings.Greg dx AS at 53To: aspires-relationships Date: 29/11/2010 10:18 PMSubject: Re: Re:Aspie SpouseSent by: aspires-relationships Greg, you are always supportive of thosetrying to meet one another halfway. Your own efforts in understandingand empathising with your wife are amazing, and you have helped Ian andI with your wisdom in the past. I agree with you when you explain about how partners ofAS become attuned to, or adapting to, the AS lifestyle as its usually theAS who isnt able to amend their traits, and the NT bends to that in orderto have harmony. But also, there is nothing wrong with putting ourselvesfirst and asking for the AS to adapt too - with Ian and I, through theauspices of Aspires,and the posts of people like yourself, we have adaptedto suit both of us. Its fair to say that the adaption isnt 50//50! Istill cant have friends around, and still dont take Ian to social occasions.But in all other respects we manage his AS so that its not a burden toeither of us. That may sound dramatic, but we have felt the weight of theAS, through the reaction of others, Ian's not being able to hold a job,his deep rooted fears, and his sensory problems. In the end, its communication, understanding, and beingopen to change - or open to sameness? Always good to hear from you, Greg.Judy B, snowed in, Scotland.Subject: Re: Re:Aspie SpouseTo: aspires-relationships Date: Sunday, 28 November, 2010, 21:59 Pat, I am a diagnosed Asperger and have learnt that the inflexibility of ASpeople leads to a situation where the spouse has no choice but to livelike an AS person. My wife after almost 27 years reacted stronglyto this and made a decision that it had to stop. She felt that livingin a way that was different to how she wanted to live was abusive and sheput her foot down. That lead to my diagnosis as I had resisted earlierattempts by her to seek professional advice. In retrospect I reactedbadly and blamed her for upsetting the balance we had. But now Iunderstand she had to do what she did to be true to herself and this alsoled to her helping me to come to grips with my problem.Things are still rocky and we have a lot to work on but at least she hasstood up for herself and tried to change things. I would not say that Ihave fully come to grips with my issues yet. But hope is there.Greg dx AS at 53 To: aspires-relationships Date: 28/11/201009:01 AM Subject: Re:Aspie Spouse Sent by: aspires-relat!ionships Although I have diagnosed my husband as anAspie about 18 months ago, I had just used some limited internet inforand not persued much until he seemed to " accept " the diagnosis. Iit has only been in the last 2 weeks or so we have done any readingabout AS. Having finished Atwood's book, and identifying with about99.5% of all the emotions that the spouse goes thru, I was wondering ifany other spouses of the AS have developed what I'll call the " secondaryAsberger's symptoms " . I find myself, now, feeling almost repulsedby crowds in malls, eatting the same foods over and over, and only reallyspeaking " facts " in my relationship with my husband. Itis almost as if after 21 years of marriage, I am beginning to act likehe does in some ways. I am just now realizing this and it almostfrightens me! At work, I still function as I always have, I believe,but it is when I get home, I almost act like he does. I think thisstarted as just being easier to " do it his way " and let therebe less tension in things I didn't think were that important. AmI losing who I am in this relationship or is that just being married forso long or is this what happens when you are married to an aspie? In the other discussion line about essential oils, my aspie HATES smells. Cooking foods (he'll tolerate baking bread and baking cookies, butThanksgiving has tradionally be hard) esp buttery popcorn, really are difficultfor him to tolerate. He does like eucalyptus, which is only so-sofor me, and I am excited to try other " earth-tone " essentialoils to see if he will find these peasant or not. Thanks, for the insights, Pat

[Guest guest]

> But being the NT with an aspie hubbie: It's really, really hard that it

> has taken him sooooooooooooooooooo long to finally understand to a small

> degree how his perspective is different from mine and that having to tell

> him over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, ad infinitum

> wears on my soul. I don't mind having to be specific but I do mind that he

> minimizes what I share. It's taken 30 years for him to now agree that my

> needs for social time are different and that sometimes he just has to cope.

As the Aspie wife of an Aspie husband, it's no different. I can understand where

he's coming from, because we both make the same mistakes, but it's very wearing

to always be in teaching mode. Sometimes I do want a telepathic husband!

What has helped us a lot is going to a therapist who specializes in AS couples.

M really understands what we are going through, calls us on our stupidity, and

knows how to explain things so the AS brain can understand. Yes, it's annoying

that I can spend 40 minutes trying to make my point, but DH only understands

when M explains it in 2 minutes. Still, once DH understands, it's a big step

forward, so I manage to put up with the 40 minutes. And ... DH is getting better

at trying to figure me out, and letting me know he's working on it. Sometimes

just hearing that his brain is working helps.

--Liz

------------

The Aspie Parent blog: http://aspergersparent.wordpress.com/

SF, science, and Gifted Ed t-shirts, mugs, and other items at

http://www.zazzle.com/CartesianBear*

Follow my shop activity at http://twitter.com/cartesianbear

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz –

This goes to a HUGE problem – finding someone who both

understands AS and can communicate to AS/NT. I would give a lot to find

someone like your ‘M’. This is really key. We went to

three professionals, none of whom helped. It may be true as Greg noted that

concentrating on AS is not helpful, but knowing the AS language is helpful, or

so I surmise. Where are you and where is ‘M’?

Cheryl

From:

aspires-relationships

[mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of Liz Cademy

Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 5:27 PM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject: Re: Re:Aspie Spouse

> But being the NT with an aspie hubbie: It's really, really hard that it

> has taken him sooooooooooooooooooo long to finally understand to a small

> degree how his perspective is different from mine and that having to tell

> him over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, ad infinitum

> wears on my soul. I don't mind having to be specific but I do mind that he

> minimizes what I share. It's taken 30 years for him to now agree that my

> needs for social time are different and that sometimes he just has to

cope.

As the Aspie wife of an Aspie husband, it's no different. I can understand

where he's coming from, because we both make the same mistakes, but it's very

wearing to always be in teaching mode. Sometimes I do want a telepathic husband!

What has helped us a lot is going to a therapist who specializes in AS couples.

M really understands what we are going through, calls us on our stupidity, and

knows how to explain things so the AS brain can understand. Yes, it's annoying

that I can spend 40 minutes trying to make my point, but DH only understands

when M explains it in 2 minutes. Still, once DH understands, it's a big step

forward, so I manage to put up with the 40 minutes. And ... DH is getting

better at trying to figure me out, and letting me know he's working on it.

Sometimes just hearing that his brain is working helps.

--Liz

------------

The Aspie Parent blog: http://aspergersparent.wordpress.com/

SF, science, and Gifted Ed t-shirts, mugs, and other items at http://www.zazzle.com/CartesianBear*

Follow my shop activity at http://twitter.com/cartesianbear

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[Guest guest]

Well said! And sometimes you hear

from them – because it’s hard to keep that family unit functional

and healthy…

Hadassah Lynn

An NT spouse with an Aspie parent,

hubbie & teen-age daughter

An NT spouse would probably put up with all sorts of

quirks as long as it was a two way street! If the family's physical and

emotional needs are met, and the NT spouse's needs are met, and the family unit

is " functional " and healthy, as opposed to dysfunctional, well that's

a recipe for a stable and probably happy and forward moving family. And this, I

suspect, is the case for the majority in " our " community. Now, we

never hear from those folks, as in all likelihood, they have no idea there may

be AS in the family, or if they do, it's like, " oh, that's interesting. "

[Guest guest]

Again, well said. One of the things that

makes an enormous difference is that I work for a major, research I university

with very supportive colleagues. When we first got the diagnosis of Asperger’s

for our daughter, I share it with my boss whose first reply was “you’re

with family.” Not everyone has that kind of supportive community and job

– I feel very blessed and even wealthy – not in dollars but in

community and friends.

Hadassah Lynn

That is true, and I think more so today with very

mobile and insular family units. Families are more frequently separated from

their " home " communities due to career/work/education. What

" works " in one community, where the family has routines, connections

in the community, family support, and people who were used to them (may have

grown up with them) may come up sorely wanting when they are uprooted. That is

when the stress of change/lack of support may expose hidden challenges. Of

course it can do that in an NT family too, but more so when there is AS in the

family. For example, the non AS spouse may find that they have to switch

vocations or leave their job due to the increased needs and stresses of one or

more AS family members, and switch to more of a caregiver/advocate role to make

up for the shortfall in community and family support.

- Helen