Re: Nada triangulation (was Prank calls . . .)

[Guest guest]

One thing I have realized recently was how my nada sabotaged my relationship

with my fada. Is this a commonality? I had assumed it was due to her fear of

me being molested, since she was molested by her father. She still tries to

control that relationship, and the one between fada and my bro. as well. I had

no idea until a couple of weeks ago when bro told me that nada always listens in

on the other line when he talks to fada!

BUtifulGrace

Recovering Non-BP wrote: Dee and All,

Thanks for sharing that. It’s a memory path I’d forgotten about. My nada

used to say things like, “Your father wouldn’t like it if you ________.”

I’d think, “What? What do YOU care? You tried to deSTROY him! And, why

are you telling ME this -- I’m just a kid. What am I supposed to do?”

That was one of the thousands of ways my nada created confusion in and

triangulated me, undermined my thinking, put me in emotional turmoil,

broke my heart and spirit, threw me off balance, smeared my dishrag fada,

and tried to alienate me from and sabotage my relationship with him (she

knew and fiercely resented that I naturally idolized my father then). She

was very successful with those chaos-creating, personality-disturbing and

identity-disintegrating behaviors. I work to continue successfully

healing and growing from her imbalanced, disturbed and disordered thinking

and behavior.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- gmat60 wrote:

>

> >I find that so funny. My mother used to always say things like,

> " Your Dad is so hurt, and when he is hurt you know it is something

> real. Or Your Dad wanted this or that so I had to call. " Anyway, it

> was always HER who wanted something or was hurt. My dad never had a

> hurt feeling in his life. He was not sensitive that way. Now he is

> gone (passed a year ago) and she tells me her caregiver needs this or

> that. It is just so predictable. Dee

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I can't speak for everyone else...and I am extremely new to all of this..

but I can tell you that the 3 individuals in my life who suffer from BPD..

ALL of them are just very controlling individuals....all 3 of them are very

controlling across the board...they have control issues about EVERYTHING!

My fada thinks he already knows everything...my nada WANTS to know

everything...she is as nosy as they come....not just with me either...with

everyone....she will see a police car drive down the road and say " oh...

they must be doing <this> " ...and she will spin something more imaginary than

anything Speilburg could come up with...my brother has his own

reality...extremely paranoid like my mom...but feels that he is

intellectually superior to anyone else like my father....he has these

theories " about life in general and tries very hard to control everything

and everyone around him to fit those revolving theories. It's so bad, every

time I start to see that cotrolling behavior in my daughter, my heart just

feels like it is going to implode.

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

-- Re: Nada triangulation (was Prank calls . . .)

One thing I have realized recently was how my nada sabotaged my relationship

with my fada. Is this a commonality? I had assumed it was due to her fear of

me being molested, since she was molested by her father. She still tries to

control that relationship, and the one between fada and my bro. as well. I

had no idea until a couple of weeks ago when bro told me that nada always

listens in on the other line when he talks to fada!

BUtifulGrace

Recovering Non-BP wrote: Dee and All,

Thanks for sharing that. It’s a memory path I’d forgotten about. My nada

used to say things like, “Your father wouldn’t like it if you ________.”

I’d think, “What? What do YOU care? You tried to deSTROY him! And, why

are you telling ME this -- I’m just a kid. What am I supposed to do?”

That was one of the thousands of ways my nada created confusion in and

triangulated me, undermined my thinking, put me in emotional turmoil,

broke my heart and spirit, threw me off balance, smeared my dishrag fada,

and tried to alienate me from and sabotage my relationship with him (she

knew and fiercely resented that I naturally idolized my father then). She

was very successful with those chaos-creating, personality-disturbing and

identity-disintegrating behaviors. I work to continue successfully

healing and growing from her imbalanced, disturbed and disordered thinking

and behavior.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- gmat60 wrote:

>

> >I find that so funny. My mother used to always say things like,

> " Your Dad is so hurt, and when he is hurt you know it is something

> real. Or Your Dad wanted this or that so I had to call. " Anyway, it

> was always HER who wanted something or was hurt. My dad never had a

> hurt feeling in his life. He was not sensitive that way. Now he is

> gone (passed a year ago) and she tells me her caregiver needs this or

> that. It is just so predictable. Dee

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yep, my nada did this too. I hated my dad for a long time until I

realized that most of the reason I hated him was because SHE hated

him! As children we weren't allowed to feel anything otherwise.

She'd reinforce this by telling stories about him, most of which I

found out later were completely untrue. He's certainly not perfect,

but he's also not the monster she made him out to be.

But unfortunately I don't think my dad is all that interested in a

relationship, either, except if I'm willing to be his N-source. So

it wasn't like I missed out on anything.

> > >I find that so funny. My mother used to always say things like,

> > " Your Dad is so hurt, and when he is hurt you know it is

something

> > real. Or Your Dad wanted this or that so I had to call. " Anyway,

it

> > was always HER who wanted something or was hurt. My dad never

had a

> > hurt feeling in his life. He was not sensitive that way. Now he

is

> > gone (passed a year ago) and she tells me her caregiver needs

this or

> > that. It is just so predictable. Dee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

See that behavior in your daughter? Is your daughter an adult or a child?

Are you concerned?

BUtifulGrace

Beach Bunny wrote:

I can't speak for everyone else...and I am extremely new to all of this..

but I can tell you that the 3 individuals in my life who suffer from BPD..

ALL of them are just very controlling individuals....all 3 of them are very

controlling across the board...they have control issues about EVERYTHING!

My fada thinks he already knows everything...my nada WANTS to know

everything...she is as nosy as they come....not just with me either...with

everyone....she will see a police car drive down the road and say " oh...

they must be doing <this> " ...and she will spin something more imaginary than

anything Speilburg could come up with...my brother has his own

reality...extremely paranoid like my mom...but feels that he is

intellectually superior to anyone else like my father....he has these

theories " about life in general and tries very hard to control everything

and everyone around him to fit those revolving theories. It's so bad, every

time I start to see that cotrolling behavior in my daughter, my heart just

feels like it is going to implode.

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

-- Re: Nada triangulation (was Prank calls . . .)

One thing I have realized recently was how my nada sabotaged my relationship

with my fada. Is this a commonality? I had assumed it was due to her fear of

me being molested, since she was molested by her father. She still tries to

control that relationship, and the one between fada and my bro. as well. I

had no idea until a couple of weeks ago when bro told me that nada always

listens in on the other line when he talks to fada!

BUtifulGrace

Recovering Non-BP wrote: Dee and All,

Thanks for sharing that. It’s a memory path I’d forgotten about. My nada

used to say things like, “Your father wouldn’t like it if you ________.”

I’d think, “What? What do YOU care? You tried to deSTROY him! And, why

are you telling ME this -- I’m just a kid. What am I supposed to do?”

That was one of the thousands of ways my nada created confusion in and

triangulated me, undermined my thinking, put me in emotional turmoil,

broke my heart and spirit, threw me off balance, smeared my dishrag fada,

and tried to alienate me from and sabotage my relationship with him (she

knew and fiercely resented that I naturally idolized my father then). She

was very successful with those chaos-creating, personality-disturbing and

identity-disintegrating behaviors. I work to continue successfully

healing and growing from her imbalanced, disturbed and disordered thinking

and behavior.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- gmat60 wrote:

>

> >I find that so funny. My mother used to always say things like,

> " Your Dad is so hurt, and when he is hurt you know it is something

> real. Or Your Dad wanted this or that so I had to call. " Anyway, it

> was always HER who wanted something or was hurt. My dad never had a

> hurt feeling in his life. He was not sensitive that way. Now he is

> gone (passed a year ago) and she tells me her caregiver needs this or

> that. It is just so predictable. Dee

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Oh...i am always worried about her. She is 15...so she is a teenager.

Since we live so close to my prize family, she can't help but pick up some

stuff from them.(It's a nature vs. nurture thing though...because I am

adopted) I know I am overly sensitive to some of the things she does....I'm

sure most of it is just normal teenage stuff...but when you are a child of a

parent that is BPD you don't learn how to parent...you learn how NOT to

parent. Between my BPD parents and my husbands parents who are EXTREMELY

manipulative. (Not BPD though) it is a constant struggle. I have found

myself purposely forcing my daughter to deal with things when they don't go

exactly her way...teaching her that she won't die if it doesn't happen under

her control. That's a fine line though....giving them the self-esteem they

need without 100% control....it's a very fine line. As she is getting older

it is actually getting a little easier...we can actually point things out to

her now and point out what is wrong. My husband and I decided years ago

when we started our family that we do everything as a team...and when we are

looking for answers we have agreed to be open minded enough to go to OTHER

members of our family whom we respect. I read ALOT, and have a very very

good friend who is a counselor that specifically deals with teenage girls.

He has given me a TON of techniques that have really helped....but worrying

about the same BPD issues that my nada and fada have that may arise in my

children has become a flea of mine. My friend has been teaching me that

recovery is an on-going thing...and he has been trying to keep my worrying

in check. The last thing I wanted to do was take my daughter to counseling

if she didn't need it....my mother made me go through that...because I wasn

t willing to do exactly what she wanted...I was always the sick one....I can

remember being 5 years old, sitting in the office of some person who had

credentials on their wall saying they were certified to cousel a child....he

would sit and talk to my mom for what seemed like hours...they would sit and

talk about me like I wasn't even in the room....I remember my mother asking

him " you know...we adopted her...do you think her mother knew there would be

a little something wrong with her, and that's why she got rid of her? " I

can remember the counselor laughing hysterically...patting my mother on the

back like she was a GENIOUS! It sounds TERRIBLE to say...completely

heartless...but I can remember when my oldest daughter was only 2 and the

control issues began to surface...i sat on my sofa and cried and cried for

hours on end....because it hit me that when my parents died, these issues

would never go away...i would never be free....never. Up until that point,

what kept me sane was the knowledge that one day...even if it was in 100

years...someday i would be free. Like a prisoner serving their time in

prison.

I'm still fighting insomnia...but i am recovering and support like what i

get here makes it easier for me....the sun is shining a little brighter..

and i can start feeling the ice begin to melt. I no longer feel like a

prisoner, because I have given myself the tools I need to unlock the door,

walk out of that cell, and never look back. I now know that I have that

ability, and my strength is her weakness.

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

-- Re: Nada triangulation (was Prank calls . . .)

One thing I have realized recently was how my nada sabotaged my relationship

with my fada. Is this a commonality? I had assumed it was due to her fear of

me being molested, since she was molested by her father. She still tries to

control that relationship, and the one between fada and my bro. as well. I

had no idea until a couple of weeks ago when bro told me that nada always

listens in on the other line when he talks to fada!

BUtifulGrace

Recovering Non-BP wrote: Dee and All,

Thanks for sharing that. It’s a memory path I’d forgotten about. My nada

used to say things like, “Your father wouldn’t like it if you ________.”

I’d think, “What? What do YOU care? You tried to deSTROY him! And, why

are you telling ME this -- I’m just a kid. What am I supposed to do?”

That was one of the thousands of ways my nada created confusion in and

triangulated me, undermined my thinking, put me in emotional turmoil,

broke my heart and spirit, threw me off balance, smeared my dishrag fada,

and tried to alienate me from and sabotage my relationship with him (she

knew and fiercely resented that I naturally idolized my father then). She

was very successful with those chaos-creating, personality-disturbing and

identity-disintegrating behaviors. I work to continue successfully

healing and growing from her imbalanced, disturbed and disordered thinking

and behavior.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- gmat60 wrote:

>

> >I find that so funny. My mother used to always say things like,

> " Your Dad is so hurt, and when he is hurt you know it is something

> real. Or Your Dad wanted this or that so I had to call. " Anyway, it

> was always HER who wanted something or was hurt. My dad never had a

> hurt feeling in his life. He was not sensitive that way. Now he is

> gone (passed a year ago) and she tells me her caregiver needs this or

> that. It is just so predictable. Dee

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

My nada did this too. After she & my dad divorced - (after he started

standing up to her the relationship was naturally over) - she

manipulated me to hate my father as much as she did. And while he

isn't perfect (who is?), a lot of what she led me to believe about him

wasn't true, which I found out about 6 years ago when I resumed

contact after 20 years.

Still very angry to have lost all those years but thank goodness it

wasn't too late.

> > > >I find that so funny. My mother used to always say things like,

> > > " Your Dad is so hurt, and when he is hurt you know it is

> something

> > > real. Or Your Dad wanted this or that so I had to call. " Anyway,

> it

> > > was always HER who wanted something or was hurt. My dad never

> had a

> > > hurt feeling in his life. He was not sensitive that way. Now he

> is

> > > gone (passed a year ago) and she tells me her caregiver needs

> this or

> > > that. It is just so predictable. Dee

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

I understand compleatly. When my nada had her 6 year affair the only

one she connfessed to ther were donzens of others slut. Anyways

after the affair she told me it was my dads fault. I was so mad at

him. It wasnt until I turned 21 moved out and went n/c that I

realized it was nadas fault. Just resently (4 years later) I worked

up the courage to have a deep talk with my dad. I said sorry to my

dad for being angry at him. He still believes he is mostly to blame

because he was a little bit of an alcoholic and worked alot. Trust

me my mom was a worse drunk. I said that his drinking didnt have

anything to do with her scanking it up at the bars every night and I

probly would have wanted a beer if I was him to. He never really

said I forgive you all he said was water under the bridge. I just

wanted him to know I was sorry for putting my anger in the wrong

place. I wanted to hear I was forgiven. But I think with him thats

just to deep. Lizzy

> > > > >I find that so funny. My mother used to always say things

like,

> > > > " Your Dad is so hurt, and when he is hurt you know it is

> > something

> > > > real. Or Your Dad wanted this or that so I had to call. "

Anyway,

> > it

> > > > was always HER who wanted something or was hurt. My dad

never

> > had a

> > > > hurt feeling in his life. He was not sensitive that way. Now

he

> > is

> > > > gone (passed a year ago) and she tells me her caregiver

needs

> > this or

> > > > that. It is just so predictable. Dee

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Lizzy,

I think if your dad said it was water under the bridge, that was his

way of saying you were forgiven, he just used different words. I

commend you for taking these steps in asking for forgiveness, that

was a courageous thing to do. I hope you are proud of yourself.

Sylvia

>

> I understand compleatly. When my nada had her 6 year affair the

only

> one she connfessed to ther were donzens of others slut. Anyways

> after the affair she told me it was my dads fault. I was so mad at

> him. It wasnt until I turned 21 moved out and went n/c that I

> realized it was nadas fault. Just resently (4 years later) I

worked

> up the courage to have a deep talk with my dad. I said sorry to my

> dad for being angry at him. He still believes he is mostly to

blame

> because he was a little bit of an alcoholic and worked alot. Trust

> me my mom was a worse drunk. I said that his drinking didnt have

> anything to do with her scanking it up at the bars every night and

I

> probly would have wanted a beer if I was him to. He never really

> said I forgive you all he said was water under the bridge. I just

> wanted him to know I was sorry for putting my anger in the wrong

> place. I wanted to hear I was forgiven. But I think with him thats

> just to deep. Lizzy

>.......

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sylvia. That does make me feel better. I just feel like I

am talking to a rock when I talk to him and I dont understand what

he says so much of the time. Lizzy

> >

> > I understand compleatly. When my nada had her 6 year affair the

> only

> > one she connfessed to ther were donzens of others slut. Anyways

> > after the affair she told me it was my dads fault. I was so mad

at

> > him. It wasnt until I turned 21 moved out and went n/c that I

> > realized it was nadas fault. Just resently (4 years later) I

> worked

> > up the courage to have a deep talk with my dad. I said sorry to

my

> > dad for being angry at him. He still believes he is mostly to

> blame

> > because he was a little bit of an alcoholic and worked alot.

Trust

> > me my mom was a worse drunk. I said that his drinking didnt have

> > anything to do with her scanking it up at the bars every night

and

> I

> > probly would have wanted a beer if I was him to. He never really

> > said I forgive you all he said was water under the bridge. I

just

> > wanted him to know I was sorry for putting my anger in the wrong

> > place. I wanted to hear I was forgiven. But I think with him

thats

> > just to deep. Lizzy

> >.......

>

[Guest guest]

Beach Bunny wrote:

Oh...i am always worried about her. She is 15...so she is a teenager.

Since we live so close to my prize family, she can't help but pick up some

stuff from them.(It's a nature vs. nurture thing though...because I am

adopted)

>>>I am COUNTING on that with my daughter, who is adopted! And that is

exactly the reason I went no contact with all extended family. Nevermind that

Nada is enough work as is, but the extended family is definitely leaving a

legacy that I do NOT want my daughter to inherit.

I know I am overly sensitive to some of the things she does....I'm

sure most of it is just normal teenage stuff...but when you are a child of a

parent that is BPD you don't learn how to parent...you learn how NOT to

parent.

>>>>Amen to that. Talk about causing insecurities in those of us who are

parents now. The perfectionism doesn’t help much either. Recently I have made

great strides in admitting I have no idea what I am doing and that I need to

focus on seeking out support and resources. Sounds like you have done that well

and surrounded yourself with lots of great supports.

.

He has given me a TON of techniques that have really helped....but worrying

about the same BPD issues that my nada and fada have that may arise in my

children has become a flea of mine.

>>>>I recently experienced a large breakdown in my marriage because of this

flea. My husband and I have always been pretty good about calling a ‘time out’

and separating if one of us gets too worked up or off the point. But lately I

had not been using that resource and my anger was getting out of control. I felt

like I had no escape and was trapped. I headed back to my T and discovered that

it all stemmed from the fear that my daughter would watch me ‘lose it’ and

somehow take on the responsibility of needing to help or fix ME, which is the

last thing I would want. I discussed the fear with my husband and how if I get

into a fight with him I need to be able to walk away and know that he is 100%

caring for our daughter because I have to step out and deal with my own fears.

It has helped tremendously!

" you know...we adopted her...do you think her mother knew there would be

a little something wrong with her, and that's why she got rid of her? "

>>>>That is the most horrific thing I have ever heard. And I would HATE to be

that counselor when he has to stand before God and answer for his behavior!

Thank you for sharing, Bunny. You are doing fabulous, and just that you are so

aware as a parent already makes you a better parent than millions of them out

there.

BGrace

---------------------------------

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