Guest guest Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 Liz, I think these are good questions and worthwhile to explore. In my family growing up I think I was probably prone to meltdowns but they simply were not acceptable. There was no question or option in my mind to meltdown it was a black and white rule carved in stone, " control yourself " followed by a very large PERIOD. At least one other of my siblings is similar and while he would sometimes yell or slam a door never an all out meltdown. It simply wasn't allowed. The funny part is I don't even know what would have happened if I HAD melted down. Actually I guess in all honesty probably they wouldn't have done anything at all. If I had sat and pounded my head on the floor they probably would have just let me and/or laughed at me. And maybe it was that knowledge that no one was going to care a rats butt about me that said I'd better take care of myself. A couple of my kids are similarly hot tempered but do not melt down. I figure this is likely because I saw it coming when they were really young and prevented it when they were toddlers. My oldest used to get super anger as a toddler and I would just hold her tight in my arms (and legs if I had to she was pretty strong) until she calmed down. This was before I knew about AS, I guess it was sort of an instinctive thing. After awhile she stopped coming unglued like that. Still has a temper but it's limited to a little yelling. Mostly any sort of temper displays are not allowed so she just takes her self to her room until she is able to cool off. Then too my kids are allowed to speak their mind, they don't have to bottle up feelings. They know that they are important and their viewpoint will be heard, though not always given in to. They know that I will take the time to get to the bottom of an issue and judge fairly between them, or even between them and their dad or myself. Each of them knows I will support them if they can show me that they are in the right, even to a fellow adult. I think them knowing they will be heard is very important. Me as an AS person, I want to be heard, the thing that would cause me to get closest to meltdowns as a kid (and now) is blatant unfairness. Which often comes to children in the flippant judgments passed down because the adult doesn't want to take the time to get to the bottom of what really happened. Often children who did nothing get all or part of the blame. I'm willing to guess this happens more often to AS kids because they are a good target for NT kids to pass blame off on and they LOOK guilty to the adult population because their body language/facial expression are easily misread. As my 7 yr old recently expressed, she's really mad because she's tired of her sister's saying she did stuff she didn't do. To the point where she is now denying doing stuff she really did do. Just me listening to her say that and talking to her a little bit about it has made her feel so much better and already the anger from her has reduced. I imagine it would be worse for a kid who is unable to express themselves. I think environment and the people we are surrounded with make a HUGE difference. Why would we think otherwise? Environment and parenting make a huge difference in NT kids. No one would argue that. Why suddenly when someone is AS are we supposed to be unaffected? We are just people like anyone else. Good topic. Jennie AS What is " part of AS " ? > Whatever flavor of AS runs in my genetic family does not include > meltdowns. [i and definitely one, probably both of my brothers are AS. My > parents are gone, and I don't remember any AS traits in them, but they > probably had some, too.] > > This leads me to think ... what traits Aspies show are part of AS, and > which are due to other conditions or upbringing? > > For example, many of the NT wives here complain that their AS spouses are > very narcissistic, bordering on full-blown NPD. I know we Aspies tend to > be self-focused, but is the level of self-absorption shown in these men > solely due to AS or is there something else going on? > > And ... the majority of Aspies were not reared by parents who understand > AS and parent in a way to bring out the best in their kids. How many of > the traits we ascribe to AS are the result of improper parenting? > > These are theoretical questions, and though conversations here made me > think of them, the questions aren't directed at any specific individuals > here or elsewhere. > > --Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Jennie Unknown wrote: A bunch of very wise observations [ snip ] > they will be heard is very important. Me as an AS person, I want to be > heard, the thing that would cause me to get closest to meltdowns as a kid > (and now) is blatant unfairness. Which often comes to children in the > flippant judgments passed down because the adult doesn't want to take the > time to get to the bottom of what really happened. Often children who did > nothing get all or part of the blame. I'm willing to guess this happens more > often to AS kids because they are a good target for NT kids to pass blame > off on and they LOOK guilty to the adult population because their body > language/facial expression are easily misread. That exact circumstance, from age-3 onward, put me on my life-long path toward understanding who and what I am. With my own kids I learned early on to " have eyes in the back of my head " , so as NOT to misunderstand whatever was going on. Joking, I *told* them I had eyes back there, and could " see " them. A few years my younger son and his whole family visited. There were a few minor dust-ups between the youngest - which he settled quite nicely. Later, kids safely in bed and out of earshot, I complimented him for his understanding and tact. He responded: " Dad, I learned it from you " . I expressed skepticism, and he said: " Remember, when we were little, and you said you had eyes in the back of your head? You were so often *right* about 'what went on' -- we believed you. " Then: " It kept the peace back then, and it does now. Just my own " eyes " are a little different. " Parents who know how to Do It Righteous, and " right " - always - have the best chance of raising kids who'll be admirable adults. [ snip ] > > I think environment and the people we are surrounded with make a HUGE > difference. Why would we think otherwise? Environment and parenting make a > huge difference in NT kids. No one would argue that. Why suddenly when > someone is AS are we supposed to be unaffected? We are just people like > anyone else. Good topic. ....Good observation!! Reminds me of the TV Special (NBC?) a few years ago - about autism - " featuring " Bill Cosby and including the NBC s, McCarthy (Ack!) and others, which inter alia showed a family's teenager having a meltdown. That short clip was supposed to illustrate the damage *autism* caused to people and families. But the kid's initial quiet frustration, accelerating anger, and storming out of his room, *so obviously* was a reaction to the *screechy angry older woman* standing in his doorway, *shouting* at him. I squirmed over the blatant mis-representation. And/but - with environments like that... Long before anyone in the US even had heard of Aspergers, long before I understood autism in a very personal way: For years I " watched " (from 2100 miles) that *same scenario* play out between my daughter (AS?) and her two children. Her very bright but, um, " capricious " son age-4 or so was DXd " Tourette's syn. " - but *is* more likely mis-DXd AS. Her 2nd-born, an equally bright daughter was, um, " wild, unmanageable " . Also, eventually, a run-away for awhile. Adults now, far out of the nest, both are seriously disturbed people; their lives are *anything but* normal. Environment? > > Jennie AS > > > What is " part of AS " ? [ snip ] >> This leads me to think ... what traits Aspies show are part of AS, and >> which are due to other conditions or upbringing? [ snip ] - Bill, dx AS -- WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Hi Everyone My adult son is seriously comprised , he has more than just AS , probably ADHD and tourettes but he is as good a husband and dad as he can be and for the most part a good son but he was very rude to me on the weekend and our whole family is distressed because my mother in law is in hospital being assessed for dementia and she is aggressive and my nerves are shot because she physically attacked me so I was in no state of mind to just shrug off the rudeness. We are all stressed right now. I can hardly wait to get the call that I can start my therapy sessions, I am on a waiting list. I have over 40 yrs of hell to work through. Lowry www.brendaandwaynefamilypetservices.com Owner/Head Trainer Dyno Dogs Performing Dog Team Professional Dog /Pet Sitter Professional Dog Groomer ABTA Certified Trainer Behavior Consultant Aggression Consultant C.A.P.P.D.T member Ontario East Regional Rep C.A.P.P.D.T. I.P.D.T.A member CKC member CKC CGN Certified Evaluator ABC Mentor Trainer To: aspires-relationships Sent: Fri, May 21, 2010 7:32:01 PMSubject: Re: What is "part of AS"? Jennie Unknown wrote:A bunch of very wise observations[ snip ]> they will be heard is very important. Me as an AS person, I want to be> heard, the thing that would cause me to get closest to meltdowns as a kid> (and now) is blatant unfairness. Which often comes to children in the> flippant judgments passed down because the adult doesn't want to take the> time to get to the bottom of what really happened. Often children who did> nothing get all or part of the blame. I'm willing to guess this happens more> often to AS kids because they are a good target for NT kids to pass blame> off on and they LOOK guilty to the adult population because their body> language/facial expression are easily misread.That exact circumstance, from age-3 onward, put me on my life-long path toward understanding who and what I am.With my own kids I learned early on to "have eyes in the back of my head", so as NOT to misunderstand whatever was going on. Joking, I *told* them I had eyes back there, and could "see" them.A few years my younger son and his whole family visited. There were a few minor dust-ups between the youngest - which he settled quite nicely. Later, kids safely in bed and out of earshot, I complimented him for his understanding and tact.He responded: "Dad, I learned it from you". I expressed skepticism, and he said: "Remember, when we were little, and you said you had eyes in the back of your head? You were so often *right* about 'what went on' -- we believed you." Then: "It kept the peace back then, and it does now. Just my own "eyes" are a little different."Parents who know how to Do It Righteous, and "right" - always - have the best chance of raising kids who'll be admirable adults.[ snip ]>> I think environment and the people we are surrounded with make a HUGE> difference. Why would we think otherwise? Environment and parenting make a> huge difference in NT kids. No one would argue that. Why suddenly when> someone is AS are we supposed to be unaffected? We are just people like> anyone else. Good topic....Good observation!!Reminds me of the TV Special (NBC?) a few years ago - about autism - "featuring" Bill Cosby and including the NBC s, McCarthy (Ack!) and others, which inter alia showed a family's teenager having a meltdown.That short clip was supposed to illustrate the damage *autism* caused to people and families. But the kid's initial quiet frustration, accelerating anger, and storming out of his room, *so obviously* was a reaction to the *screechy angry older woman* standing in his doorway, *shouting* at him. I squirmed over the blatant mis-representation.And/but - with environments like that...Long before anyone in the US even had heard of Aspergers, long before I understood autism in a very personal way:For years I "watched" (from 2100 miles) that *same scenario* play out between my daughter (AS?) and her two children.Her very bright but, um, "capricious" son age-4 or so was DXd "Tourette's syn." - but *is* more likely mis-DXd AS. Her 2nd-born, an equally bright daughter was, um, "wild, unmanageable". Also, eventually, a run-away for awhile.Adults now, far out of the nest, both are seriously disturbed people; their lives are *anything but* normal. Environment?>> Jennie AS>>> What is "part of AS"?[ snip ]>> This leads me to think ... what traits Aspies show are part of AS, and>> which are due to other conditions or upbringing?[ snip ]- Bill, dx AS-- WD "Bill" Loughman - Berkeley, California USAhttp://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Liz raised some interesting questions about ... what traits Aspies show are part of AS, and which are due toother conditions or upbringing?This is rather hard to unravel.I am a diagnosed AS and the self absorptionis, I think, rather common in many AS folk based on what I have read andwhat I have observed. Personally, I was unaware of the self absorptionuntil I was married and it affected the relationship. The way mypartner compensated for the imbalance was to take on more of the load tokeep the relationship in balance. A huge task when there are kidsto look after and a husband who is challenged to understand how to supporthis wife effectively.Narcissistic people tend to think theyare special. I do not think that about myself, however I do oftenget involved in work related tasks where my expertise is on display andthat can reinforce the egoistic impulses. I do tend to talk in termsof I rather than we so I have a very self centred view of things.Is it axiomatic that the self absorptiondamages a relationship? I would have to say yes as the lack of reciprocityleads to NT partners being hurt and feeling isolated. The naturalresponse by the NT person is to challenge the AS to explain behaviour whichis the norm for them. I have also noticed that the self absorptionfacilitates the intense focus on the AS pursuits and obsessive drive tomaster something. This is one of the strengths of AS people. Unfortunately,it damages relationships. The AS folk do themselves no favours ifthey practice avoidance behaviours or go into denial. Other comorbidissues will make things more complicated.Just my thoughts on what could be avery interesting thread.Gregdx AS at 53To: aspires-relationships Date: 21/05/2010 09:44 PMSubject: What is " part of AS " ?Sent by: aspires-relationships > There are people with AS who dont meltdown, but I do feel its rightto acknowledge that they happen for some with AS.Whatever flavor of AS runs in my genetic family does not include meltdowns.[i and definitely one, probably both of my brothers are AS. My parentsare gone, and I don't remember any AS traits in them, but they probablyhad some, too.]The first meltdowns I recognized as such were my daughter's, but laterI realized my husband's " angry times " were meltdowns, too. UntilI joined this list I never knew meltdowns were considered usual for Aspergers.This leads me to think ... what traits Aspies show are part of AS, andwhich are due to other conditions or upbringing?For example, many of the NT wives here complain that their AS spouses arevery narcissistic, bordering on full-blown NPD. I know we Aspies tend tobe self-focused, but is the level of self-absorption shown in these mensolely due to AS or is there something else going on?And ... the majority of Aspies were not reared by parents who understandAS and parent in a way to bring out the best in their kids. How many ofthe traits we ascribe to AS are the result of improper parenting?These are theoretical questions, and though conversations here made methink of them, the questions aren't directed at any specific individualshere or elsewhere. --Liz------------The Aspie Parent blog: http://aspergersparent.wordpress.com/SF, science, and Gifted Ed butons, mugs, and other items at http://www.zazzle.com/CartesianBear*Higher Quality Adult & kid shirts at http://www.printfection.com/cartesianbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Liz,Thanks for your post. Meltdownscan manifest differently. I am AS and my meltdowns are very quiet. I withdraw and sulk I think is the best way to describe it. Meanwhileeventually I will come out of it and everyone else is a little bit shattereddue to the eggshells they have been walking on. It took me so longto realise the effect my withdrawing has.This is what drives my wife crazy asshe does not understand why I do this rather than deal with the insecuritiesand feelings I have trouble understanding. It is as if I need totune out to come to terms so that I can re enter life again.Does anyone get that sort of thoughtprocess?Gregdx AS at 53To: aspires-relationships Date: 21/05/2010 09:44 PMSubject: What is " part of AS " ?Sent by: aspires-relationships > There are people with AS who dont meltdown, but I do feel its rightto acknowledge that they happen for some with AS.Whatever flavor of AS runs in my genetic family does not include meltdowns.[i and definitely one, probably both of my brothers are AS. My parentsare gone, and I don't remember any AS traits in them, but they probablyhad some, too.]The first meltdowns I recognized as such were my daughter's, but laterI realized my husband's " angry times " were meltdowns, too. UntilI joined this list I never knew meltdowns were considered usual for Aspergers.This leads me to think ... what traits Aspies show are part of AS, andwhich are due to other conditions or upbringing?For example, many of the NT wives here complain that their AS spouses arevery narcissistic, bordering on full-blown NPD. I know we Aspies tend tobe self-focused, but is the level of self-absorption shown in these mensolely due to AS or is there something else going on?And ... the majority of Aspies were not reared by parents who understandAS and parent in a way to bring out the best in their kids. How many ofthe traits we ascribe to AS are the result of improper parenting?These are theoretical questions, and though conversations here made methink of them, the questions aren't directed at any specific individualshere or elsewhere. --Liz------------The Aspie Parent blog: http://aspergersparent.wordpress.com/SF, science, and Gifted Ed butons, mugs, and other items at http://www.zazzle.com/CartesianBear*Higher Quality Adult & kid shirts at http://www.printfection.com/cartesianbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010  Greetings: I think we have to be very respectful and agree that how AS is expressed genealogy is different in every one. With some it is a passive gene and for some it can trigger an aggressive gene and than their is our environmental influences. It is so much more than a label. All our stories are valid from the perspective of our personal journey through life. Just me. Have a GREAT week end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Some members of my family misinterpret ME as being " narcissistic " , but I am far from it! I have a bad self-esteem! I thought narcissistic means that you are in love w/ yourself beyond being conceded, no? I just get self-absorbed or self-centered when I'm upset or something, but not narcissistic. > > There are people with AS who dont meltdown, but I do feel its right to acknowledge that they happen for some with AS. > > Whatever flavor of AS runs in my genetic family does not include meltdowns. [i and definitely one, probably both of my brothers are AS. My parents are gone, and I don't remember any AS traits in them, but they probably had some, too.] > > The first meltdowns I recognized as such were my daughter's, but later I realized my husband's " angry times " were meltdowns, too. Until I joined this list I never knew meltdowns were considered usual for Aspergers. > > > This leads me to think ... what traits Aspies show are part of AS, and which are due to other conditions or upbringing? > > For example, many of the NT wives here complain that their AS spouses are very narcissistic, bordering on full-blown NPD. I know we Aspies tend to be self-focused, but is the level of self-absorption shown in these men solely due to AS or is there something else going on? > > And ... the majority of Aspies were not reared by parents who understand AS and parent in a way to bring out the best in their kids. How many of the traits we ascribe to AS are the result of improper parenting? > > These are theoretical questions, and though conversations here made me think of them, the questions aren't directed at any specific individuals here or elsewhere. > > --Liz > > > > ------------ > The Aspie Parent blog: http://aspergersparent.wordpress.com/ > > SF, science, and Gifted Ed butons, mugs, and other items at http://www.zazzle.com/CartesianBear* > Higher Quality Adult & kid shirts at http://www.printfection.com/cartesianbear > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 I wish I could be " quiet " ! I would be in a lot less hot water then! > > There are people with AS who dont meltdown, but I do feel its right to > acknowledge that they happen for some with AS. > > Whatever flavor of AS runs in my genetic family does not include > meltdowns. [i and definitely one, probably both of my brothers are AS. My > parents are gone, and I don't remember any AS traits in them, but they > probably had some, too.] > > The first meltdowns I recognized as such were my daughter's, but later I > realized my husband's " angry times " were meltdowns, too. Until I joined > this list I never knew meltdowns were considered usual for Aspergers. > > This leads me to think ... what traits Aspies show are part of AS, and > which are due to other conditions or upbringing? > > For example, many of the NT wives here complain that their AS spouses are > very narcissistic, bordering on full-blown NPD. I know we Aspies tend to > be self-focused, but is the level of self-absorption shown in these men > solely due to AS or is there something else going on? > > And ... the majority of Aspies were not reared by parents who understand > AS and parent in a way to bring out the best in their kids. How many of > the traits we ascribe to AS are the result of improper parenting? > > These are theoretical questions, and though conversations here made me > think of them, the questions aren't directed at any specific individuals > here or elsewhere. > > --Liz > > ------------ > The Aspie Parent blog: http://aspergersparent.wordpress.com/ > > SF, science, and Gifted Ed butons, mugs, and other items at > http://www.zazzle.com/CartesianBear* > Higher Quality Adult & kid shirts at > http://www.printfection.com/cartesianbear > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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