Photos and boundary crossing

[Guest guest]

I go to tremendous lengths to make sure that my mother does not get

her hands on any photos of me. As a child, I always hated having

pictures taken of me when it was my mother taking them. I hated the

way that she always refused to be in photographs herself, but would

say that I had to be in photos whenever she felt like it. I hated the

way that she would paste unflattering photos of me all around the

house and her office - and scream at me if I took them down. I hated

the videocamera she got, and would hide for hours so that i couldn't

be filmed. I hated the formal studio portrait she made me and my

father and siblings pose for every year. I felt used and humiliated

and resented the message that I was " owned " and therefore had no

choice in when my picture was taken or in what i wore. And of course

i was always supposed to smile.

Well, I'm still furious. At my cousin's wedding two years ago, my nada

took a picture of me and my sisters without me knowing, and used it on

her bloody christmas card. She knew there was something to be ashamed

about, because she made sure i didn't see it - and then when I

confronted her she lied about it. What kind of insane boundary

crossing is it to take pictures without permission and send them to

hundreds of people?

I haven't seen my mother now for a year and a half, but even on my

last visit I would do anything possible to get away from her blasted

camera. She has only gotten worse in the last few years with these

internet sites, and has scanned pictures from her children decades ago

and sends them around to everyone as though they are new! Even though

my father and two siblings are at home, I never send them photos or

links because my nada will go through all of their mail and routinely

reads all of their e-mail. I realized tonight it has been nearly two

years since my sister or father have even seen a photo of me. My

sister's birthday is approaching (she is 15) and I plan to send her a

card and would love to include a photo of me and the baby, but I can't

because i know my fiendish mother will steal it, scan it, and send it

to people that i don't even know as proof of her wonderful

relationship with me (have been NC now for 2 months). And this makes

me see red.

Sorry for the length, obviously I haev a lot of anger issues around

this! - I think because of the statement it makes about " owning " me.

Does anyone else have any similar situations?

[Guest guest]

I have two stories. One is a picture of me when I was very little -

maybe 3 or 4. My parents had a picture of me, naked, holding and

eating from a box of raisins. They would talk about it and laugh and

they probably said it was cute. But when I was about 6, I felt

embarrassed at having a naked picture of me floating around, and there

must have been something in their tone that embarrassed me about it.

Or, I suppose it's possible that I was being overly sensitive. One

day, I got hold of it and tore it to pieces, and my dad shamed me for

years about destroying that photo.

Also, when I was 22 or 23 and still living with my parents (moved out

at 24), I was sick on Christmas. I dragged myself out of bed and got

dressed to see my brother and his wife and child and we opened

presents and stuff, but my hair was not done and I had no makeup on

and I felt like CRAP. My father insisted that they should take

pictures of all of us and I didn't want my picture taken because I did

not feel/look well. I felt I had gone above and beyond just by not

being in bed! I tried to say no, but my father started to raise his

voice and I was/am so afraid of his possible yelling again, that I sat

for the pictures. I passive-aggressively refused to smile.

Hmmmmm...at 23 years old, did I have a right to say " don't take my

picture? "

Little things like that, in retrospect, make me feel so angry for

having allowed myself to be controlled for as long as I did. I think

he should have respected my feelings. For many years after that, he

whined that I wouldn't smile. I effing CAPITULATED and it STILL

wasn't enough to keep me from punishment.

-Deanna

[Guest guest]

My nada always manages to take pictures of my butt. :-O No matter what the

situation, if I bend over for one minute, she's snapping a picture of my 'rear

'assets'. Oh Lord. The things they do! Sara on your anxiety about things

maybe being your fault, I found one line in Ayn Rand's book, " Atlas Shrugged " to

be of help to me. A man was asked (paraphrasing here), " What would you do if you

were Atlas and the weight of the whole world was on your shoulders?' When the

man came up with no answer, the questioner responded, " I'd shrug. " I used to

carry it all - 100% all the time. Full effort - covering my tracks and everyone

else's as well. It had to do with wanting acceptance. When I first tried

stepping down, I thought my world would collapse and I'd fall headfirst into

hell or something, but you know what happened? nothing. No earthquakes, no

floods, no heavenly outrage, not even much of a human comment. I discovered

that I was carrying a weight that I chose. Nobody

else gave it to me and I discovered that I was the only one who considered it

to be good that I carried it. I heard a comment or two about 'she used to

handle everything but now she doesn't.' I just said, " yup " and then it was

dropped. Most ( non-BPD) people are amazing in adjusting their expectations.

As long as we are willing to do it all, they will let us. When we handle less,

they let us do that too after they realize that the rules have changed. I was

also afraid that if I let go, I'd slide all the way down - pedestal to pigpen -

but I didn't. Like a pendulum, I dropped out completely for awhile and got

'sloppy' about keeping appointments and such, but then I regrouped and found my

own comfort level. Keeping pace with my own chosen level of commitment and

comfort seemed to relax me and I found out that most of the people I was trying

to get to accept me actually like me better now. It's ok to shrug. Amazingly, I

discovered that the world kept going pretty much

the way it already did and didn't need my help to keep it on its axis. I was

shocked. :-) -Leslye

sage153 wrote:

I go to tremendous lengths to make sure that my mother does not get

her hands on any photos of me. As a child, I always hated having

pictures taken of me when it was my mother taking them. I hated the

way that she always refused to be in photographs herself, but would

say that I had to be in photos whenever she felt like it. I hated the

way that she would paste unflattering photos of me all around the

house and her office - and scream at me if I took them down. I hated

the videocamera she got, and would hide for hours so that i couldn't

be filmed. I hated the formal studio portrait she made me and my

father and siblings pose for every year. I felt used and humiliated

and resented the message that I was " owned " and therefore had no

choice in when my picture was taken or in what i wore. And of course

i was always supposed to smile.

Well, I'm still furious. At my cousin's wedding two years ago, my nada

took a picture of me and my sisters without me knowing, and used it on

her bloody christmas card. She knew there was something to be ashamed

about, because she made sure i didn't see it - and then when I

confronted her she lied about it. What kind of insane boundary

crossing is it to take pictures without permission and send them to

hundreds of people?

I haven't seen my mother now for a year and a half, but even on my

last visit I would do anything possible to get away from her blasted

camera. She has only gotten worse in the last few years with these

internet sites, and has scanned pictures from her children decades ago

and sends them around to everyone as though they are new! Even though

my father and two siblings are at home, I never send them photos or

links because my nada will go through all of their mail and routinely

reads all of their e-mail. I realized tonight it has been nearly two

years since my sister or father have even seen a photo of me. My

sister's birthday is approaching (she is 15) and I plan to send her a

card and would love to include a photo of me and the baby, but I can't

because i know my fiendish mother will steal it, scan it, and send it

to people that i don't even know as proof of her wonderful

relationship with me (have been NC now for 2 months). And this makes

me see red.

Sorry for the length, obviously I haev a lot of anger issues around

this! - I think because of the statement it makes about " owning " me.

Does anyone else have any similar situations?

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[Guest guest]

Yes, my mother used to also take photos when I explicitly asked her not to. In

fact, she would insist, then make fun of me for being against it. I once

grabbed the camera from her, then she had a fit. It reminds me of when I was

very young, and she played this game where she would chase me around the house

pretending to be a monster. I would have to hide. If she found me, she tickled

me (just in case this sounds remotely fun, it wasn't). I was terrified of this

game but she refused to stop if I asked her, she just kept talking in her

monster voice and chasing me.

is

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[Guest guest]

Wow - " Monster Voice " - I remember that one all too well. Maybe there's a good

reason I'm scared of the dark... I'd forgotten bout that Voice until now. As

far as my fear, is, a feeling of being unprotected is exactly what it is. I

think the reason it's rearing its ugly head now is because I feel DH is not able

to protect me as he once could. Not his fault, just physical limitations, but

scared is scared. -Leslye

doticus wrote:

Yes, my mother used to also take photos when I explicitly asked her

not to. In fact, she would insist, then make fun of me for being against it. I

once grabbed the camera from her, then she had a fit. It reminds me of when I

was very young, and she played this game where she would chase me around the

house pretending to be a monster. I would have to hide. If she found me, she

tickled me (just in case this sounds remotely fun, it wasn't). I was terrified

of this game but she refused to stop if I asked her, she just kept talking in

her monster voice and chasing me.

is

---------------------------------

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in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

What kind of insane boundary

> crossing is it to take pictures without permission and send them to

> hundreds of people?

>

> ... She has only gotten worse in the last few years with these

> internet sites, and has scanned pictures from her children decades

ago

> and sends them around to everyone as though they are new!

OMG - I can't believe someone has this same experience. It seems like

everywhere she goes, *my* mother snaps tons of photos. She uploads

them the same day, and mass-emails them to everyone she can think of.

I get one of those " You have been invited to view _____'s album " in

my inbox at least once a week. AND she does the thing where she scans

old, old family photos and sends them to everybody.

I just thought it was an annoying habit; now I wonder if it's part of

her BPD. An attempt to symbolically own or control everyone and

everything? An attempt to continually remind everybody that she

exists?

I've read that BPDs have trouble with object constancy - they have a

hard time holding on to someone in their mind if the person's not

present. Maybe she projects this onto everyone else and assumes we'll

all forget each other if we don't constantly look at pictures of each

other.

Speaking of wanting to symbolically own or control people, she also

took it upon herself to compile a big database of every extended

family member's contact info (50+ people) and distribute it to

everyone - without getting anyone's permission first. Many of the

people on the list have never even met each other. Of course, when my

brother (who is in show business and has a small but enthusiastic fan

base) politely asked that she please check with him before giving out

his contact information in the future, she FLIPPED out and wrote an

attacking all-caps email to him that included things liks " I HOPE

SOMEONE COMES TO YOUR ____ING FUNERAL IF NOT YOUR RELATIVES!! "

Ugh.

[Guest guest]

I recently had a photo experience with my foo actually last week. As

many of you know I was dreading this whole thing about my sister

graduation but I did end up going and it was great. Prior to me

going I wrote my dad a list of my boundaries which included no

family photos. I did say I would take a photo with my sister but

that was it. To my surprise they respected my boundaries… that

night. Although I did get the puss in boots look from my nada all

night as she sadly whispered in my sisters boyfriends ear and

pointed at me the whole time. I am not sure she even watched my

sister get her diploma! My dad also looked at me all night but his

look was more rage. I just happened to be sitting directly across

from them on the opposite side of the auditorium. But that's Ok I

had a big support group with me.

So anyways, After the ceremony my little sis came up to me and was

balling that I was there. I was happy to see her to, I felt

relieved. We snapped some photos together, then about a day or 2

later I get a request from nada to join her at one of those web

sites where they post photos and make comments about the photos!

GRRRR! I have not accepted the request or gone on the site because

you have to create an account using your email, if I did that she

would see right away that I was on there and have yet another way to

contact me. But I highly suspect she has posted photos of me and my

sister all over the GD internet. I am so infuriated. Livid is a good

word. I don't do my space, or have photos of myself or my family on

line. I am a private person. I keep to myself, with the acceptation

of this site and my email I don't really go online.

She used to take photos of me as a kid to but like many of you said

refused to be in any herself. The aunts would make us all sit on the

steps and smile. The kids hated it we would all cry but we had to

sit there until the last kid stopped crying. It was hot, and

crammed. Why not just take photos of the kids while they play? No we

all had to sit, no photos of real life. Once I was so mad at my mom

for trying to make me pose, I was wearing a dress I pulled down my

underwear and mooned the camera! I was about 7 she really took a

photo and on top of it she made extra copies and gave it to all the

family members. I had no clue what she did until I was about 14 and

I was looking through my aunts family album there was a photo of me

bent over with my 7 year old snapper! I wanted to die it was in

there all that time! I asked her to take it out but she wouldn't and

she laughed till she had tears. They all still have copies. Why? I

don't know maybe they are perverts.

I would rather keep photos of my family to myself. Our mugs wont be

posted any time soon(at least not with my permission) LOL! Love Lizzy

>

> What kind of insane boundary

> > crossing is it to take pictures without permission and send them

to

> > hundreds of people?

> >

> > ... She has only gotten worse in the last few years with these

> > internet sites, and has scanned pictures from her children

decades

> ago

> > and sends them around to everyone as though they are new!

>

> OMG - I can't believe someone has this same experience. It seems

like

> everywhere she goes, *my* mother snaps tons of photos. She uploads

> them the same day, and mass-emails them to everyone she can think

of.

> I get one of those " You have been invited to view _____'s album "

in

> my inbox at least once a week. AND she does the thing where she

scans

> old, old family photos and sends them to everybody.

>

> I just thought it was an annoying habit; now I wonder if it's part

of

> her BPD. An attempt to symbolically own or control everyone and

> everything? An attempt to continually remind everybody that she

> exists?

>

> I've read that BPDs have trouble with object constancy - they have

a

> hard time holding on to someone in their mind if the person's not

> present. Maybe she projects this onto everyone else and assumes

we'll

> all forget each other if we don't constantly look at pictures of

each

> other.

>

> Speaking of wanting to symbolically own or control people, she

also

> took it upon herself to compile a big database of every extended

> family member's contact info (50+ people) and distribute it to

> everyone - without getting anyone's permission first. Many of

the

> people on the list have never even met each other. Of course, when

my

> brother (who is in show business and has a small but enthusiastic

fan

> base) politely asked that she please check with him before giving

out

> his contact information in the future, she FLIPPED out and wrote

an

> attacking all-caps email to him that included things liks " I HOPE

> SOMEONE COMES TO YOUR ____ING FUNERAL IF NOT YOUR RELATIVES!! "

>

> Ugh.

>

[Guest guest]

Wow! My nada does exactly the same thing with enormous contact

lists, she has really gotten into this in later years and fancies

herself some sort of communication coordinator for the extended

family...I too find it pretty startling to see that she has sent my

e-mails out to people.

There is probably more to this contact list saga but I am blissfully

unaware, having blocked her e-mail over a year ago...this also

prevents me from being flooded with invitations to view online

albums of random and blurry photos.

SO glad I am not alone on this one! thanks

Sara

>

> What kind of insane boundary

> > crossing is it to take pictures without permission and send them

to

> > hundreds of people?

> >

> > ... She has only gotten worse in the last few years with these

> > internet sites, and has scanned pictures from her children

decades

> ago

> > and sends them around to everyone as though they are new!

>

> OMG - I can't believe someone has this same experience. It seems

like

> everywhere she goes, *my* mother snaps tons of photos. She uploads

> them the same day, and mass-emails them to everyone she can think

of.

> I get one of those " You have been invited to view _____'s album "

in

> my inbox at least once a week. AND she does the thing where she

scans

> old, old family photos and sends them to everybody.

>

> I just thought it was an annoying habit; now I wonder if it's part

of

> her BPD. An attempt to symbolically own or control everyone and

> everything? An attempt to continually remind everybody that she

> exists?

>

> I've read that BPDs have trouble with object constancy - they have

a

> hard time holding on to someone in their mind if the person's not

> present. Maybe she projects this onto everyone else and assumes

we'll

> all forget each other if we don't constantly look at pictures of

each

> other.

>

> Speaking of wanting to symbolically own or control people, she

also

> took it upon herself to compile a big database of every extended

> family member's contact info (50+ people) and distribute it to

> everyone - without getting anyone's permission first. Many of

the

> people on the list have never even met each other. Of course, when

my

> brother (who is in show business and has a small but enthusiastic

fan

> base) politely asked that she please check with him before giving

out

> his contact information in the future, she FLIPPED out and wrote

an

> attacking all-caps email to him that included things liks " I HOPE

> SOMEONE COMES TO YOUR ____ING FUNERAL IF NOT YOUR RELATIVES!! "

>

> Ugh.

>

[Guest guest]

I have no idea what it would be like to have nada in my face with a

camera. She never bothered to keep a camera when I was growing up.

She sometimes bought the school pictures, which I invariably HATED

and would be humiliated when she sent them to any relatives.

Honestly, I can't remember her personally ever taking a single

picture of me as a child; all of my childhood photos are from family

events where my aunt and grandma had the good sense to make me feel

included. I don't remember if I noticed or not that she never tried

to take any. She complained about ever having to pose with me (or

anyone else - I'm not special, here) even at my wedding. She always

looks miserable, like it causes her physical pain to be there.

This hit me out of the clear blue sky as I type this, I've never

thought about it before: I wonder if my severe body image issues

stem in part from this -- feeling like I was too fat and ugly for my

own mother to want to photograph me, like she didn't want a visual

reminder of how insufficient I was. Watching my aunt and grandma

(both basically decent, normal mothers who lived with multiple

cameras within arm's reach at all times) snap away, I was wondering

why I wasn't good enough to deserve that. Of course, nada was the

one who kept me in unflattering bangs, ill-fitting clothes, and fed

me Chef Boyardee 3 meals a day . . . I wonder why I felt fat and

ugly??

>

> I go to tremendous lengths to make sure that my mother does not

get

> her hands on any photos of me. As a child, I always hated having

> pictures taken of me when it was my mother taking them. I hated

the

> way that she always refused to be in photographs herself, but

would

> say that I had to be in photos whenever she felt like it. I hated

the

> way that she would paste unflattering photos of me all around the

> house and her office - and scream at me if I took them down. I

hated

> the videocamera she got, and would hide for hours so that i

couldn't

> be filmed. I hated the formal studio portrait she made me and my

> father and siblings pose for every year. I felt used and

humiliated

> and resented the message that I was " owned " and therefore had no

> choice in when my picture was taken or in what i wore. And of

course

> i was always supposed to smile.

>

> Well, I'm still furious. At my cousin's wedding two years ago, my

nada

> took a picture of me and my sisters without me knowing, and used

it on

> her bloody christmas card. She knew there was something to be

ashamed

> about, because she made sure i didn't see it - and then when I

> confronted her she lied about it. What kind of insane boundary

> crossing is it to take pictures without permission and send them

to

> hundreds of people?

>

> I haven't seen my mother now for a year and a half, but even on my

> last visit I would do anything possible to get away from her

blasted

> camera. She has only gotten worse in the last few years with

these

> internet sites, and has scanned pictures from her children decades

ago

> and sends them around to everyone as though they are new! Even

though

> my father and two siblings are at home, I never send them photos

or

> links because my nada will go through all of their mail and

routinely

> reads all of their e-mail. I realized tonight it has been nearly

two

> years since my sister or father have even seen a photo of me. My

> sister's birthday is approaching (she is 15) and I plan to send

her a

> card and would love to include a photo of me and the baby, but I

can't

> because i know my fiendish mother will steal it, scan it, and send

it

> to people that i don't even know as proof of her wonderful

> relationship with me (have been NC now for 2 months). And this

makes

> me see red.

>

> Sorry for the length, obviously I haev a lot of anger issues

around

> this! - I think because of the statement it makes about " owning "

me.

> Does anyone else have any similar situations?

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, Leslye...I was just passing through the thread, but the Atlas

quote and your elaboration...Thank you! So simple...but it hit me

so hard. One of those quick quotes I can repeat to myself when I'm

under fire for the latest BS. I've been trying to be the Atlas in

my family for a long time.

>

> My nada always manages to take pictures of my butt. :-O No

matter what the situation, if I bend over for one minute, she's

snapping a picture of my 'rear 'assets'. Oh Lord. The things they

do! Sara on your anxiety about things maybe being your fault, I

found one line in Ayn Rand's book, " Atlas Shrugged " to be of help to

me. A man was asked (paraphrasing here), " What would you do if you

were Atlas and the weight of the whole world was on your

shoulders?' When the man came up with no answer, the questioner

responded, " I'd shrug. " I used to carry it all - 100% all the

time. Full effort - covering my tracks and everyone else's as

well. It had to do with wanting acceptance. When I first tried

stepping down, I thought my world would collapse and I'd fall

headfirst into hell or something, but you know what happened?

nothing. No earthquakes, no floods, no heavenly outrage, not even

much of a human comment. I discovered that I was carrying a weight

that I chose. Nobody

> else gave it to me and I discovered that I was the only one who

considered it to be good that I carried it. I heard a comment or

two about 'she used to handle everything but now she doesn't.' I

just said, " yup " and then it was dropped. Most ( non-BPD) people

are amazing in adjusting their expectations. As long as we are

willing to do it all, they will let us. When we handle less, they

let us do that too after they realize that the rules have changed. I

was also afraid that if I let go, I'd slide all the way down -

pedestal to pigpen - but I didn't. Like a pendulum, I dropped out

completely for awhile and got 'sloppy' about keeping appointments

and such, but then I regrouped and found my own comfort level.

Keeping pace with my own chosen level of commitment and comfort

seemed to relax me and I found out that most of the people I was

trying to get to accept me actually like me better now. It's ok to

shrug. Amazingly, I discovered that the world kept going pretty much

> the way it already did and didn't need my help to keep it on its

axis. I was shocked. :-) -Leslye