Re: Re: Vitamin D/ Calcium/Ovaries

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Saw palmetto helps balance the T with PCOS, and whether or not one has PCOS, it is good for stopping hair loss in women. Those posts on that other list talk more about this.

Re: Re: Vitamin D/ Calcium/Ovaries

bigbird3099 wrote:

My future daughter in law (25 yrs old), C, is being tested right now for PCOS and her gyno has prescribed 5HTP for munchies at PMS time starting after day 14, low dose estrogen patch during the week around day 21 (she has terrible PMS - wants to kill) and spironolactone to block excess free testosterone and improve hair loss. Said it would take 3 months before she would see improvement in hair loss. When C takes a shower she smears her black hair all over the wall to prevent it from going down the drain. One day she forgot to clean it up and I screamed when I saw the hair on the wall - it looked like murder...LOL

Madeleen

[Guest guest]

McIlhaney's wrote: Saw palmetto helps balance the T with PCOS, and whether or not one has PCOS, it is good for stopping hair loss in women. Yes she is considering Saw Palmetto first before she tries the spironolactone. She has big boobs and the latter drug may increase that. Not what she wants! Madeleen Re: Re: Vitamin D/ Calcium/Ovaries bigbird3099 wrote: My future daughter in law (25 yrs old), C, is being tested right now for PCOS and her gyno has prescribed 5HTP for munchies at PMS time starting after day 14, low dose

estrogen patch during the week around day 21 (she has terrible PMS - wants to kill) and spironolactone to block excess free testosterone and improve hair loss. Said it would take 3 months before she would see improvement in hair loss. When C takes a shower she smears her black hair all over the wall to prevent it from going down the drain. One day she forgot to clean it up and I screamed when I saw the hair on the wall - it looked like murder...LOL Madeleen

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[Guest guest]

not sure what you are saying Karin. I understand your point about SP and Spiro. Are you saying E did not help the PCOS or PMS problems or you have to watch not taking too much? and how do you determine what is enough? Madeleen bigbird3099 wrote: Saw palmetto and spiro only compensate or mask the symptoms of too much free T they do not address why there is too much and how to possibly get the body or the ovaries to work properly. I have done the same in taking too much E, when you take a lot it brings down your available T but it really is just a compensation and than it negatively effects other things(like uncontrolable bleeding).Karin > My future daughter in law (25 yrs old), C, is being tested right now for PCOS and her gyno has prescribed 5HTP for munchies at PMS time starting after day 14, low dose estrogen patch during the week around day 21 (she has terrible PMS - wants to kill) and spironolactone to block excess free testosterone and improve

hair loss. Said it would take 3 months before she would see improvement in hair loss. When C takes a shower she smears her black hair all over the wall to prevent it from going down the drain. One day she forgot to clean it up and I screamed when I saw the hair on the wall - it looked like murder...LOL> > Madeleen>

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In my opinion and reseach and lifetime use of supplements, I KNOW that the BEST way to balance hormones is with food supplements and herbs in MANY, many cases, if not most. I won't say all, since there always are some over-riding factors in some women, due to problems caused by environmental toxins, or improper use of hormone therapy, as you all on this list know all about. But women cure their hormone imbalances, and prevent them in many respects, with nutritional/herbal approaches. But not as medicines to take for a while, they must be permanent lifestyle programs. Women do it all the time. I did it when I was younger and very out of balance. But ONE supplement, such as saw palmetto, by itself won't solve the problem, it only will help the symptoms, that is true. But a more complete supplement program -- or in some cases Chinese herb formulas -- will get to the root of the problem. That is why those of us in 'those worlds' are so anti-drug, since THOSE are the things that only treat symptoms and never get to the root of the problem, and cause side effects. Cure the symptom, kill the patient. Supplements and herbs balance out the body, give it what it needs.

Re: Vitamin D/ Calcium/Ovaries

Saw palmetto and spiro only compensate or mask the symptoms of too much free T they do not address why there is too much and how to possibly get the body or the ovaries to work properly. I have done the same in taking too much E, when you take a lot it brings down your available T but it really is just a compensation and than it negatively effects other things(like uncontrolable bleeding).Karin > My future daughter in law (25 yrs old), C, is being tested right now for PCOS and her gyno has prescribed 5HTP for munchies at PMS time starting after day 14, low dose estrogen patch during the week around day 21 (she has terrible PMS - wants to kill) and spironolactone to block excess free testosterone and improve hair loss. Said it would take 3 months before she would see improvement in hair loss. When C takes a shower she smears her black hair all over the wall to prevent it from going down the drain. One day she forgot to clean it up and I screamed when I saw the hair on the wall - it looked like murder...LOL> > Madeleen>

[Guest guest]

bigbird3099 wrote: The E really helped but I had to take larger amounts of it and that caused some other issues. I guess what I have been looking for for the last 25 yrs is the answer to why my body did not operate like it should have w/my menstrual cycles (acne). Karin, Hormones are not only regulated by the adrenals and ovaries. I understand that the hypothalamus and the pituitary also play a role, which also play a role with the adrenals and thyroid. I hear of more

and more younger women having hormone problems and actually I think I had hormone problems when I was in my 30s as well. I felt oversexed (sorry if I am being too graphic) a lot of the time and I did not conceive until I was 38! And then I had huge problems during my premenopausal yrs - lots of clotting and bleeding. Menopause was fine until I lost my brain. I eat well, 90% organic and watch my diet carefully since I have had breast cancer twice. I have done Chinese herbs and acupuncture sessions which did not really change my hormonal issues. Adding E back into my life has been huge for me. I thought I was E dominant and had avoided it for years like the plague. Its like avoiding your nurturing feminine self. Not good. I am also doing 3 grains of thyroid and am having to add 10 mg Cortef into the mix for adrenal support and a little testosterone since my hysterectomy. I take the Cortef before the thyroid and it does seem to prime the thyroid. Madeleen > > > click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/> > **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice.** > > > >

[Guest guest]

Well from what i understand spiro acts like an androgen *like aldostenedione* and our bodies think there's plenty of androgens available and starts producing less of it's own. Kinda like with supplementing with too much E, when our body starts producing less of it's own since there's a plenty available...also spiro binds to testosterone receptors in the hair follicles and thus replcaces the real T in there... how to you address the cause of too much free T? i mean one of the possible causes is low E which causes SHBG or hypothyroidism...in this case you can supplement with E or/and thyroid...but sometimes like in PCOS our bodies just over-produce T..how do you prevent this from happening? -J.bigbird3099 wrote: Saw palmetto and spiro

only compensate or mask the symptoms of too much free T they do not address why there is too much and how to possibly get the body or the ovaries to work properly. I have done the same in taking too much E, when you take a lot it brings down your available T but it really is just a compensation and than it negatively effects other things(like uncontrolable bleeding).Karin > My future daughter in law (25 yrs old), C, is being tested right now for PCOS and her gyno has prescribed 5HTP for munchies at PMS time starting after day 14, low dose estrogen patch during the week around day 21 (she has terrible PMS - wants to kill) and spironolactone to block excess free testosterone and improve hair loss. Said it would take 3 months before she would see improvement in hair loss. When C takes a shower she smears her black hair all over the wall to prevent it from going down the drain. One day she forgot to clean it up and I screamed when I saw the hair on the wall - it looked like murder...LOL> > Madeleen>

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Madeleen, this is some great info, thanx for sharing. My doc is saying that it's my pituitory which is suppressed from too much E. Again, 4 months off the pill my FSH and LH are at 0, and obviously i am not ovulating...So hypotolamus and pituitory defenitely play a role...these are the commanding center of the whole process as it's hypotolamus which determines what the body needs to produce. Sometimes hypotolamus gets confused and gives out wrong/mixed signals...one of the docs i am working with threatened that if i was to stay on high E i am on 4mg or 2 0.1vivelle dot patches for a long time it could cause Hypotolamic Amhenorria....but it's been only 4 months, and i am starting to tapering off in exactly a week *right after my wedding*..*a girl needs to have some hair for the wedding?!*.. anyways, i'll keep everyone posted on my progress...for now i am thinking to slowly taper off down to 0.075mg - 0.1mg of vivelle dot and then take some

tests and see if my FSH is moving...if it's not i'll move down to 0.050 *which is 1mg of E i believe*...what complicates things is that my T is high/norma and at this point it's only adrenal T since my ovaries are shut...and i do have a few little cysts on my ovaries...so my fertility doc prescribed a lot dose of metformin, which i am still debating about...but since it's an anti-androgen i could theoretically benefit from taking it while tapering off the E... Again, i'll keep you ladies posted on my progress -J.Madeleen wrote: bigbird3099 wrote: The E really helped but I had to

take larger amounts of it and that caused some other issues. I guess what I have been looking for for the last 25 yrs is the answer to why my body did not operate like it should have w/my menstrual cycles (acne). Karin, Hormones are not only regulated by the adrenals and ovaries. I understand that the hypothalamus and the pituitary also play a role, which also play a role with the adrenals and thyroid. I hear of more and more younger women having hormone problems and actually I think I had hormone problems when I was in my 30s as well. I felt oversexed (sorry if I am being too graphic) a lot of the time and I did not

conceive until I was 38! And then I had huge problems during my premenopausal yrs - lots of clotting and bleeding. Menopause was fine until I lost my brain. I eat well, 90% organic and watch my diet carefully since I have had breast cancer twice. I have done Chinese herbs and acupuncture sessions which did not really change my hormonal issues. Adding E back into my life has been huge for me. I thought I was E dominant and had avoided it for years like the plague. Its like avoiding your nurturing feminine self. Not good. I am also doing 3 grains of thyroid and am having to add 10 mg Cortef into the mix for adrenal support and a little testosterone since my hysterectomy. I take the

Cortef before the thyroid and it does seem to prime the thyroid. Madeleen > > > click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/> > **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice.** > > > >

[Guest guest]

I have been in the thick of the Chinese medical world now for about ten years, and unfortunately there are just too many practitioners out there who don't know as much as they should. Here is what my conclusions are at this point in time, based on that experience:

1. acupuncture alone isn't going to do much for female hormone balance, the best practitioners I have been around will tell you that in China, the medicine is 20% acupuncture and 80% herbs

2. finding someone who really knows their Chinese herbs is hard -- Pacifica college of Chinese medicine in San Diego, and the International Institute of Chinese Medicine in Santa Fe, where my hubbie went, were considered the best schools for herbology training in the U.S., at least in the 1990s, for IICM closed a few years ago, due to bad management and the founders of it, MDs from China, are really old now, so to my knowledge, Pacifica is the school for herbs these days, and if someone didn't go to one of those schools and also really focus on the herb track at those schools, you may not get good care

3. even with a really good herbal knowledge, a practitioner may not know that much about women's health, especially someone like you with breast cancer twice, I am so sorry! Dagmar Ehling, whom I have mentioned before, who now practices in the Raleigh-Durham area, is a specialist in women's issues and I would refer anyone to her who is trying to find a decent practitioner in their area -- she grew up in Germany, the daughter of an MD and qualified for medical school in Germany, which I am told is VERY rigorous, but chose to go to Chinese medical school instead, and has studied as much as she can worldwide, and taught and spoken worldwide in the area of herbs and women's health, so she is a world specialist in this field and a really neat woman!

4. you sound like you are a really special case, with difficult health issues, you deserve and probably need the best, whether it be MDs or practitioners of Chinese medicine or whatever, I wish you the best in your continuing journey, for didn't you tell us recently on this list (or it was new info for me at least) that you are recovering from a hysterectomy right now? -- obviously you are quite a survivor, you go girl!

5. the earlier life problems you describe, clotting and bleeding, unable to get pregnant, are fairly easy to solve with good nutrition programs, but they cost a lot and are complex, you take a lot of pills every time you eat, and cannot just randomly go buy things, but must work with someone who understands these things, although my own experience was done through just reading and trial and error with products, for there wasn't anyone around in 'my day' when I was trying to pursue this path, who knew anything, not in my life anyway, LOL - but I am living proof myself of curing problems you describe, through nutritional supplements, and know of many others who have done the same -- we talk about these things all the time on the LiveRight list -- as for cancer, there is still so much we just don't know! Many people make claims that the organic foods and intense food supplement programs prevent cancer, but I have seen enough of it around me in my life to conclude we just don't know for sure! We may be able to feel great and function well through nutrition, herbs, etc., but then one day, we die of cancer. Adelle died of cancer in her 60s, and yet her nutrition information that she gave us 50-60 years ago still is so valid in so many respects, especially about women's health and hormone issues and what supplements can work wonders, and they can for they did for me!

Re: Re: Vitamin D/ Calcium/Ovaries

I eat well, 90% organic and watch my diet carefully since I have had breast cancer twice. I have done Chinese herbs and acupuncture sessions which did not really change my hormonal issues.

Madeleen

[Guest guest]

You are so right! At least you are aware of these things! That is the best starting point! I will look up the contact info for a couple of women who understand these things that you can contact if you want. One is an NP who is in Boulder, but works with people long distance. The other has a masters in nutrition and also works with people all over the country, and she also has studied naturopathy and Chinese medicine and she is in hr 50s, I think, so has a few decades of experience in this area. I don't know the age of the NP in Boulder, but have been hearing other women's good results with her for over a decade now. They know what brands have clinical studies and are good quality, and how to use them for various women's issues. They both really understand all about the P problems and types of products, dangers and advantages. I am more familiar with the work of the nutritionist in Florida, than I am the NP on a personal level -- the nutritionist is one of my heroines in this world of holistic health.

If I didn't have Dr. Morton and Dr. Dagmar Ehling in my life, I would turn to the two women above for my female hormone issues. I went to Dr. Morton when I moved back to NM routinely for my gyn. checkup and to see what she had to say these days about menopausal therapies, natural ones. The rest is history, she uses and recommends Wiley, etc. etc. If she hadn't, I would have listened to what she did suggest and decided whether to do that or to contact one of the two women above, or Dagmar.

For two years after my last period, I realized I was turning into another lifeform, but it was all so vague. The only tangible symptom I had was excess chin hair and that is almost laughable compared to the problems some women have after menopause without hormone therapy, so I was a bit embarrassed to admit something so trivial in the big scheme of things, but so horrid on a daily basis to deal with! I always have had a hard time with my weight, was huge as a teen when I think I had PCOS, and solved both problems fairly well over the years with my own long journey of holistic research and trial and error and finding a few good advisors along the way, but when I hit menopause, nothing seemed to be working quite the same for me as it once did, and I was gaining weight! I had so much pain in my early life due to being a big girl in the Twiggy years, I cannot tell you how depressing it was to feel I was losing control of my weight, AGAIN! At least now I still have the big boobs that everyone else seems to have to pay money for these days! In my early years, even those didn't mean anything, when flat chests were in! LOL

Dr. Morton was able to put labels and confirmation on my vague health issues and it was so comforting, and suggested Wiley and Schwarz. as solutions. She said if I didn't use HRT of some kind, I was going to end up weighing 300 pounds in a few years and of course, the synthetic HRT was not the way to go for a litany of reasons she named, and I already knew. But I was surprised to hear her so adamant that I should not go without some form of natural HRT and her suggestion was the Wiley protocol. I do know that if I had read the book and not wanted to do that, she would have helped me with some other form(s) of HRT, since she has such a good long background with others.

We both were very clear it was MY choice to follow her recommendation. She never dictates to her patients, wants us to make educated choices. I never had had a doctor tell me I had to read a book before she would allow me to start a program she was recommending! I loved it! LOL

Re: Vitamin D/ Calcium/Ovaries

I agree that if you can alleviate the problem nutritionally that is the way to go, but where do you find the answers that are scientific in their approach backed by studies and some research? And on the herbal side I feel you have to be careful in what you may take because some herbs act as pharmaceutical drugs do. I don't have the answers but will continue to search for what works best for my particular issues. I guess everyone has a slightly different route in getting the answers they are looking for.Thanks for the feedback.Karin> >

[Guest guest]

Celiac disease is at the root of so many issues. The Wall Street Journal ran an article in the last few months about how in Europe, testing for that condition is routine because so many people have it. Here, doctors act like it is a strange and rare disease, but we are realizing it is not. It can have a huge effect on all the health remedies we try.

Re: Vitamin D/ Calcium/Ovaries

The E really helped but I had to take larger amounts of it and that caused some other issues. I guess what I have been looking for for the last 25 yrs is the answer to why my body did not operate like it should have w/my menstrual cycles (acne). I think part of the answer was the underlying thyroid/celiac disease. Maybe there is some genetic componant to it all and maybe it is the celiac that did not allow me to absorb the proper nutrients for the endochrine system to function well. I think that is why this Dr. who does treat women for malabsorbtion issues makes sense for me and my daughters right now.

[Guest guest]

The doctors from China who trained my husband -- one was head of cardiology at a hospital in one of the big cities in China, for example, so they were MDs as well as knowledgeable in Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) -- taught him that TCM doesn't know a lot about cancer. Apparently it wasn't a major problem over the 5,000 years or so that body of knowledge and experience developed. The balancing TCM does for the body, since that is what TCM is all about, balancing the body, supposedly helps prevent cancer, but of course we have no proof of that.

My husband says TCM is EXCELLENT for people going through Western medical treatments for cancer and after the treatments. Helps make them feel better and recover faster.

On the other hand, one of my husband's mentors, who makes his own specially tweaked versions of traditional Chinese herbal formulas, is now helping people all over the world with cancer. But I think it has more to do with cancer recovery, am not positive about that.

Dr. Zhao is from a family in China that has been 'in herbs' for at least 500 years. His products are easy to use because they are pills and liquids, so you don't have to brew up those stinky teas. He is in Santa Fe. His phone is 1-. East Tao Herb Pharmacy and Clinic. His appointments for acupuncture and herbal consultation are only about $40. I sent a friend of mine who lives in CT and had leukemia a few years ago there when she was visiting and he didn't even charge her for an herbal consultation, which took a few minutes, for he is so good, it doesn't take him long to read pulses and tongue, hear the patient's symptoms and make his diagnosis. He also is one of the happiest people I think I ever have known. He must be close to 60 or beyond, but looks like he is in his 20s or 30s.

Re: Vitamin D/ Calcium/Ovaries

Interesting. One of my doctors wants me to see a Chinese herbalist to get "unblocked" because my body has produces very aggressive giant cell tumors. Now I'm wondering where the heck she is going to send me.

[Guest guest]

Benign is good, yes?! Are they lipomas? Or true tumors? You might call Dr. Zhao in Santa Fe for a referral. Lipomas are a mystery even to the Chinese. But tumors are not.

Re: Vitamin D/ Calcium/Ovaries> > > Interesting. One of my doctors wants me to see a Chinese herbalist > to get "unblocked" because my body has produces very aggressive > giant cell tumors. Now I'm wondering where the heck she is going to > send me. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>