Re: Giving up alcohol (long response)

[Guest guest]

Many, many thanks for all those ideas - and I look forward to your book.

I'll certainly look into the AA and other possibilities in this area. Cambridge

(UK) generally has a liberal humanist culture so I think it's unlikely that

anyone would get heavy with the god stuff. And I'm not averse to religion per

se. I've been to Quaker meetings a few times before deciding that I was more

interested in Buddhism. And I adore Messiaen. =)

I suppose the other hurdle has been that I'm not technically alcoholic. I don't

usually drink every day, and can function quite well without it. But I'm

absolutely sure it has been a huge hindrance to me, both positively and

negatively. So I shall split hairs no longer.

Party tonight. First test of my new resolve!

all the best,

Tom

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > You are not a loser. You are a winner for writing this message and

getting the ball to sobriety rolling. I was in the same boat during the 90's,

which had much to do with living with an alcoholic, abusive boyfriend. I had

to come to the realization that alcohol was not working for me anymore. Self

medicating had become self abuse. I joined an online support group for awhile,

which was helpful.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I dislike AA also; I do not believe in a higher power since the power is

within each of us. For me, the power is self love--maybe you could consider

that a higher power, but not in AA terms. It's OK if others believe in a

spiritual higher power--whatever works for them.Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I just want to congratulate you for your courage in putting this out

there. I'll look forward to hearing what others have to say. I'm sure ACT

is totally appropriate and helpful when applied to any addiction or bad

habit. I'm rooting for you { big hugs} .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Helena

> > >

> > >

> > > Giving up alcohol

> > >

> > > Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I think it's time I admitted that alcohol is a real problem for me. Surely

it's not coincidence that my crash back into depression, anxiety and insomnia

this week was preceded by four days of binge drinking. And I've lost count of

the number of times drunkenness has made me do or say something I regretted.

> > >

> > > So I'm quitting completely (or at least until the end of the year so I can

see how extended sobriety feels). Problem is, I've tried giving up over and over

again, only to allow myself " just the one " which ends up being ten. The very

fact that giving up is so hard should clue me in that booze is a problem for me!

> > >

> > > How can ACT help? Anyone got any tips? And any other ideas? I don't want

to join a 12-step programme because I don't believe in a higher power.

> > >

> > > Meh. I feel like such a loser.

> > >

> > > thanks,

> > > bb

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The data on AA show that atheists drop out more ... But those that do

not, do equally well. That tells me what is inside the work is not

religious per se. As best as i can tell from the view of a person

whose exposure to AA has been thru support of people close to me

(Alateens etc), ACT is a good fit w AA. I see zip

in the big book that is not ... actual AA groups? It depends on the

people. AA groups contaminated w Synanon seem among the poorest fit.

ACT is not religious but spirituality is all over it ... Does not

seem to be a big barrier to non religious folks.

Kel is a master at linking these traditions

and people need a databased way forward. I expect these books to be

transformational for the entire field of substance abuse rx.

You heard it here first

- S

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> Many, many thanks for all those ideas - and I look forward to your

book.

>

> I'll certainly look into the AA and other possibilities in this area.

Cambridge (UK) generally has a liberal humanist culture so I think it's unlikely

that anyone would get heavy with the god stuff. And I'm not averse to religion

per se. I've been to Quaker meetings a few times before deciding that I was more

interested in Buddhism. And I adore Messiaen. =)

>

> I suppose the other hurdle has been that I'm not technically alcoholic. I

don't usually drink every day, and can function quite well without it. But I'm

absolutely sure it has been a huge hindrance to me, both positively and

negatively. So I shall split hairs no longer.

>

> Party tonight. First test of my new resolve!

>

> all the best,

> Tom

>

>

>>

>> I am working on a book right now, two actually, one for the public, one for

professionals on alcoholism/addiction. I wish they were done, haring you reach

out, but they are not. Both of the books suggest 12-step programs as an

adjunct. I don't think they are necessary. There is a lot of mythology around

AA, lots of bullshit, lots of wrong ideas, but at its core, there is a lot of

ACT compatible stuff and I think there are ways to work with what is not ACT

compatible. What you end up with is the only really super available support

groups on the planet, and I am a real believer in community. There are

alternatives, Rational Recovery, Overcomers, and a bunch of others. Some, like

Overcomers is very specifically and explicitly religious. Rational Recovery is

explicitly not religious. The problem with all of them is that they are just not

very widespread.

>>

>> I have worked with a lot of people and helped them to let go of what is not

useful in AA and pick up what is useful. I never, ever push clients to go.

Never. But I suggest it, along with ways to understand AA in ACT friendly terms.

The books will describe the use of ACT with or without 12-step as an addition.

Many get sober without it. Many get sober with it. I recommend it because it has

a lot of good qualities (along with bad, but hey, it is a real world, I have

good and bad qualities, and so does everything else)

>>

>> Here is a little something from the book on the " one drink " problem

>> Some substances make it easier to use other substances or more of

the same substance. Some substances, and alcohol is a great example, have

disinhibiting effects. This just means that when you want to do something, but

are inhibited for any reason, the drug eases some of that inhibition. So, for

example, if you are at the bar and the band starts playing, you might be a

little reluctant to step out on the dance floor. You want to, but feel a little

inhibited. You have a couple drinks and inhibition melts away. This is not in

and of itself a bad thing, if what you feel inhibited about is asking someone to

dance. But what if the thing you feel like doing, but feel inhibited about, is

having another drink or using some cocaine. Alcohol has the same effect on those

inhibitions. In AA, they sometimes say " One drink. One drunk. " This is not

strictly true, but there is some basis for concern. Being able to accurately

estimate one's blood alcohol does not make the person immune from disinhibition

or lapses in judgement. There are good reasons that there are laws against

driving while under the influence of even a small amount of alcohol. Many

substances make people feel more competent and confident and less anxious. There

is no good reason to imagine judgments about whether or not to drink or use are

left untouched.

>>

>>

>> The big hurdle you mention is the god thing. You are way way not alone. Here

are a couple ideas that might help. One of the sections in the book is called

" But I hate AA! " and a subsection of that is called " I hate all the god stuff. "

>>

>> I hate all the god stuff

>> There is not doubt that there is a lot of god stuff going on at

AA. The good news is that there is quite a bit of room for your own personal

spiritual beliefs within AA. The tolerance for spiritual beliefs in AA is quite

old. It is interesting that the first AA, Bill , was from New York. He

called on the second AA, Dr. Bob , while in Akron, Ohio for business. Dr.

Bob had been very involved with an organization called the Oxford Group. Bill

had also been exposed to that group but shied away from some of its more

absolutistic spiritual doctrine. In the early years of AA, had it been left

entirely to the Akron faction of AA, there would have likely been a far stricter

set of spiritual views in AA. But those darned New Yorkers were a more diverse

lot and did not much like being told what to believe or what to do.

>> As result, the AA basic text emphasizes again and again the idea of God as we

understood him and a generic higher power. In fact, depending on where you are

in the country, you may find a lot of people disaffected with organized religion

in AA. I have interviewed people with all manner of beliefs who have found AA

useful, including people who believed in traditional religions, but also

individuals who held nature are a higher power, love as a higher power, and

fellowship as a higher power. I have even met devout atheists who were regular

AA's.

>> As described above, this relative openness is by design. Here is what Bill

had to say on the topic in his book AA Comes of Age:

>> Who first suggested the actual compromise words I do not know, but they are

words well-known throughout the length and brea

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--

C.

Foundation Professor

Department of Psychology /298

University of Nevada

Reno, NV 89557-0062

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