Re: Question about faith (for AS)

[Guest guest]

Question about faith (for AS)

> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith

> group? Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to

> faith in God? I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side

> that many with AS have and how this is reconciled with personal faith

> which often requires a non-logical/scientific belief in someone that is

> not seen or heard.

>

Good question... I'll see if I can answer without stepping on any toes...

faith topics tend to be touchy...

I am AS and have no issue reconciling my faith with my logic. Here's the

thing... we take things on faith all the time. Everytime we sit in a chair

we are taking it on faith that it will hold us up. Especially when it is a

chair we have never seen before and know nothing about. It is very possible

a chair might not hold us up, it might just collapse under this. I actually

had this happen to me as a kid.

When we drive we take it on faith that other people are going to follow the

rules (this is why we get upset when they don't). We take it on faith they

will stop at the stop sign, or turn when their blinker is on, or not stop in

the middle of the intersection. We drive accordingly.

Contrary to a lot of popular opinion, there are scientific facts that

support the concept of a creator. That is why there are scientists who while

they aren't Christian do believe in a creator in terms of a higher being. I

can't remember the name but in the last few years there was a top

evolutionary scientist who changed his mind and switched 'sides'. He now

believes that science supports the idea of a creator more than it supports

evolution. (Though there are also scientists would who say the two sides

don't have to be separate.) there was a BIG who-ha about it and his

credibility was questioned and he was personally insulted... one wonders

WHY. There is archaeology that supports Biblical history depending on WHO

interprets. Of course all archaeology is argued over. The scientists

themselves can't agree on what things mean, yet they expect us to eat up

whatever they spoon feed us. It is a mistake to think religion or faith is

separate from science. Those scientists who argue for evolution have to make

many leaps of faith. They just don't CALL it faith, they call it 'logical

assumption' or 'reached the conclusion' or what have you. Then when new

evidence comes along that disproves their 'conclusion' (i.e. their leap of

faith) they just don't advertise it too loudly and hope most people don't

notice. (which bears a remarkable similarly to most religious people LOL)

There is a myth in the world that the 'experts' are way more intelligent and

know way more than the populous. As if the population of the world is

stupid. People forget that ANYONE, you or I or Joe off the street can become

a scientist just by going to school for awhile and doings some studies and

writing some papers. In fact one could become a scientist (one who studies

science) without going to an 'official school' at all. It's not like these

people are somehow special or blessed with super intelligence or something.

The fact is, bottom line, in the end the scientists are just airing their

opinions based on what they know just like anyone else. Just like doctors.

LOL Anyway... I digress...

My faith is simply a logical conclusion to the information I have. That

includes my personal experiences, books I have read, topics I have

researched, conversations I have had, etc. I gathered all the information

and 'reached a conclusion'. I do NOT view God/faith as emotion based and I

find that folk who do tend to have no clue why they believe what they

believe. They also tend to be very reactive. Won't have conversations about

the whys and wherefores and in general like to keep things about a quarter

inch from the surface. But that does not seem to be confined to NTs because

my very AS mother (presumed AS by me) has a very emotional, illogical,

irrational faith 'belief'. Her AS shows through though as she applies a

brutally black and white mentality to totally emotional view points and then

attempts to cram them down others throats. On the bright side however, she

has given me an example of how NOT to be and shown me how important it is to

rein in certain parts of me so they never get that over the edge! LOL I tell

my kids if I ever start acting like her that I expect them to put me in a

nursing home and leave me there.

I think a HUGE problem for AS folk in any religion is the close minded list

of rules presented. I've seen this in more churches I care to talk about. I

have learned to simply keep my mouth shut and say nothing because most

people cannot handle disagreement. But the fact of the matter is the Bible

does not support a lot of the things various groups say you need to do,

which were a big problem to me as and AS person. I always wanted to know

'WHY' and folks never wanted to even talk about it, let alone have an

answer. I suspect this is common for AS inquiring minds. For example there

are churches who look at you like you are a heathen if you don't participate

in the music portion of the service. I miss probably 90% of the music

because they play it so dang loud, it's like being hit on the head. I just

can't tolerate it, so I leave and sit in the hall way until it's over.

That's one of many issues I have run into. I learned to just be OK with

doing things my way and if someone has a problem with it, it's THEIR

problem, not mine. They can take it up with God. For many years though I

just stayed away. It was easier for me because I couldn't handle the anxiety

caused by people's attitudes toward me.

In the end, AS folk are no different than anyone else. We all 'reach

conclusions' based on the information we have. If you know an AS person who

doesn't buy into religion, maybe he or she has been presented a poor image

for religion. Maybe he or she just needs to see more information. Or maybe

just like anyone else on the planet he or she just flat out isn't

interested.

Hopefully I presented all sides here and didn't step on any toes!

Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith group?

Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to faith in God?

I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side that many with AS have

and how this is reconciled with personal faith which often requires a

non-logical/scientific belief in someone that is not seen or heard.

>

>

I used to say I was a spiritual deaf-mute ... seriously, I have no faith in a

higher power at all.

That doesn't stop me from belonging to a congregation, though.

I'm Jewish, and the congregation I belong to is custom-made for skeptics. We

take nothing on faith, and endlessly debate the meaning of Torah (knowing that

it was, at minimum, written down by humans). I don't find the religious

practices a sham though, because they can bring the people in the congregation

together and are both relaxing and energizing. And the other members of the

congregation are like an extended family, helping each other in times of crisis.

I remember when we joined, and my 10 year old daughter walked up to the rabbi

and defiantly said " I don't believe in God! " , looking for opposition. Instead,

what he said was " You know, I'm not always sure I believe, either. We should

talk about it sometime. " And in training for her Bat Mitzvah, that's exactly

what they did. She's still an atheist, as is my 9 year old son (I'm agnostic),

and that's cool with everyone.

--Liz

Aspie wife of Aspie husband

[Guest guest]

Albert Einstein said " science without religion is lame, religion

without science is blind " . Wise words. I not only belong to a

religion, it is the second one I have belonged to--raised in one,

" converted " to another (quotes because my religion does not

proselytize convert, proselytize or care a flip if others believe the

same or other or none of the above).

I have been trained all my life in science, (my father was a chemist

and brought us up with science, I studied science to the doctoral

degree and work teaching science. married a man who is in the same

field so we frequently debate points of esoterica while our son rolls

his eyes) and I have no trouble reconciling faith and science, as it

is not based so much on faith as experience--if you feel a breeze, it

does not take theology to believe there is air you cannot see. And

color blind people do not need a religion to believe that even if they

cannot see color, others do.

I believe there is a science to religion, we just do not know the

right questions, tools and knowledge to explore it. If you had gone

back 2000 years ago and tried to explain gravity, rotations of

planets, nuclear fission, it would have seemed a matter of faith, a

religious platform.

How could anyone a thousand years ago frame questions or experiment

that would lead to the discovery of the Higgs boson or the unified

field or alternate dimensions?

So our faiths may become. When we become grown up enough to be able

to conceptualize The All, we might be able to frame intelligent

questions about Its nature. Until then, religion is shrouded in

mystery. and we " take it on faith " .

Hope I did this without crossing listrule lines.

, AS

> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a

> faith group? Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to

> be drawn to faith in God? I'm wondering especially about the

> logical, factual side that many with AS have and how this is

> reconciled with personal faith which often requires a non-logical/

> scientific belief in someone that is not seen or heard.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I remember when we joined, and my 10 year old daughter walked up to

> the rabbi and defiantly said " I don't believe in God! " , looking for

> opposition. Instead, what he said was " You know, I'm not always sure

> I believe, either. We should talk about it sometime. " And in

> training for her Bat Mitzvah, that's exactly what they did. She's

> still an atheist, as is my 9 year old son (I'm agnostic), and that's

> cool with everyone.

>

THAT is a wise man. I love it.

[Guest guest]

Jennie...I think you said a big fat mouthful here...and I have one thing to say in response: Amen, sister! ~ "Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal."--Albert Camus Sent from my VZW BlackBerrySender: aspires-relationships Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:12:37 -0700To: <aspires-relationships >ReplyTo: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: Question about faith (for AS) Question about faith (for AS)> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith > group? Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to > faith in God? I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side > that many with AS have and how this is reconciled with personal faith > which often requires a non-logical/scientific belief in someone that is > not seen or heard.> Good question... I'll see if I can answer without stepping on any toes... faith topics tend to be touchy...I am AS and have no issue reconciling my faith with my logic. Here's the thing... we take things on faith all the time. Everytime we sit in a chair we are taking it on faith that it will hold us up. Especially when it is a chair we have never seen before and know nothing about. It is very possible a chair might not hold us up, it might just collapse under this. I actually had this happen to me as a kid.When we drive we take it on faith that other people are going to follow the rules (this is why we get upset when they don't). We take it on faith they will stop at the stop sign, or turn when their blinker is on, or not stop in the middle of the intersection. We drive accordingly.Contrary to a lot of popular opinion, there are scientific facts that support the concept of a creator. That is why there are scientists who while they aren't Christian do believe in a creator in terms of a higher being. I can't remember the name but in the last few years there was a top evolutionary scientist who changed his mind and switched 'sides'. He now believes that science supports the idea of a creator more than it supports evolution. (Though there are also scientists would who say the two sides don't have to be separate.) there was a BIG who-ha about it and his credibility was questioned and he was personally insulted... one wonders WHY. There is archaeology that supports Biblical history depending on WHO interprets. Of course all archaeology is argued over. The scientists themselves can't agree on what things mean, yet they expect us to eat up whatever they spoon feed us. It is a mistake to think religion or faith is separate from science. Those scientists who argue for evolution have to make many leaps of faith. They just don't CALL it faith, they call it 'logical assumption' or 'reached the conclusion' or what have you. Then when new evidence comes along that disproves their 'conclusion' (i.e. their leap of faith) they just don't advertise it too loudly and hope most people don't notice. (which bears a remarkable similarly to most religious people LOL)There is a myth in the world that the 'experts' are way more intelligent and know way more than the populous. As if the population of the world is stupid. People forget that ANYONE, you or I or Joe off the street can become a scientist just by going to school for awhile and doings some studies and writing some papers. In fact one could become a scientist (one who studies science) without going to an 'official school' at all. It's not like these people are somehow special or blessed with super intelligence or something. The fact is, bottom line, in the end the scientists are just airing their opinions based on what they know just like anyone else. Just like doctors. LOL Anyway... I digress...My faith is simply a logical conclusion to the information I have. That includes my personal experiences, books I have read, topics I have researched, conversations I have had, etc. I gathered all the information and 'reached a conclusion'. I do NOT view God/faith as emotion based and I find that folk who do tend to have no clue why they believe what they believe. They also tend to be very reactive. Won't have conversations about the whys and wherefores and in general like to keep things about a quarter inch from the surface. But that does not seem to be confined to NTs because my very AS mother (presumed AS by me) has a very emotional, illogical, irrational faith 'belief'. Her AS shows through though as she applies a brutally black and white mentality to totally emotional view points and then attempts to cram them down others throats. On the bright side however, she has given me an example of how NOT to be and shown me how important it is to rein in certain parts of me so they never get that over the edge! LOL I tell my kids if I ever start acting like her that I expect them to put me in a nursing home and leave me there.I think a HUGE problem for AS folk in any religion is the close minded list of rules presented. I've seen this in more churches I care to talk about. I have learned to simply keep my mouth shut and say nothing because most people cannot handle disagreement. But the fact of the matter is the Bible does not support a lot of the things various groups say you need to do, which were a big problem to me as and AS person. I always wanted to know 'WHY' and folks never wanted to even talk about it, let alone have an answer. I suspect this is common for AS inquiring minds. For example there are churches who look at you like you are a heathen if you don't participate in the music portion of the service. I miss probably 90% of the music because they play it so dang loud, it's like being hit on the head. I just can't tolerate it, so I leave and sit in the hall way until it's over. That's one of many issues I have run into. I learned to just be OK with doing things my way and if someone has a problem with it, it's THEIR problem, not mine. They can take it up with God. For many years though I just stayed away. It was easier for me because I couldn't handle the anxiety caused by people's attitudes toward me.In the end, AS folk are no different than anyone else. We all 'reach conclusions' based on the information we have. If you know an AS person who doesn't buy into religion, maybe he or she has been presented a poor image for religion. Maybe he or she just needs to see more information. Or maybe just like anyone else on the planet he or she just flat out isn't interested.Hopefully I presented all sides here and didn't step on any toes!Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone, for your great answers so far! This is an interesting topic for me because although we are both devout Christians, my AS husband and I come to our faith in different ways. He sees the rational, logical side of it that I haven't been able to understand. For me, it's about... faith. Your answers have helped me to understand his point of view in a way he couldn't express to me. We are raising our two children, one AS, the other not, in our faith tradition but I was having a hard time with the boy's logic-based questions. Hope to see some other opinions here!

Question about faith (for AS)

> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith

> group? Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to

> faith in God? I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side

> that many with AS have and how this is reconciled with personal faith

> which often requires a non-logical/scientific belief in someone that is

> not seen or heard.

> .

[Guest guest]

>

> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith group?

Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to faith in God?

I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side that many with AS have

and how this is reconciled with personal faith which often requires a

non-logical/scientific belief in someone that is not seen or heard.

>

>

After looking at everyone's answer and seeing how and Helen have allowed

responses to be on here, I'll respond as well. I just wanted to let others

respond first before I did.

I'll just put it this way - although I attend a congregation currently, I'm

looking to leave there soon. I have developed more metaphysical views, which

have brought increased understanding and clarity to my life, over the past 18

months. I have been on a spiritual journey since 2003, and keep seeing the

evolvement of it from then to this day.

I have become spirtually, non-religious, as I believe in Universal Creator or

Source (and people can choose to interpret that however they so please). I

believe that people should choose whatever brings them relief, structure,

whatever.

K.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,Glad to meet another believer- there are many of us in the yahoo group CATACOMBS_Asperger which grew out of this group, and still contains lots of overlap. I encountered my Lord and Savior personally, and would not believe till I did and knew it was He. I believe much by faith, but look at the big picture. I know I am AS according to the flesh, but in my faith, I believe my relationship with the Lord is more like a relationship among typical people in many ways- we relate in terms of feelings quite a bit, and to me, it is not about earning salvation or right relationship by a series or works or by following scripts, but it is about love and caring and giving and receiving and spending time in the presence of the Lord and acknowledging Him and listening to Him and admiring

His work and all the other little things that go into a relationship. I have learned much about typical people since I came to accept my being AS by thinking about how the Lord accepts me as I am and loves me greatly, and is aware of all my needs all the time- and it has helped me in knowing, by faith, how people should try to relate to one another. Of course, we are not perfect and cannot do this, but here, I have given a start to the answer to your question.If you take this back to the Pharisees, they had a million scripts for dealing with the law- as if they were trying to get things right with God by following social rules that were written down, much like an ASpie might ask for help in a complex social situation,and try hard to memorize a million little things, completely missing the big picture. I believe that this is exactly what the legalistic Pharisees did back in Jesus' day, and that this is part of why Jesus

scolded them so hard publicly- they were not looking at the relationship at all- only scripts! I care less about all the rules than I do about taking the time to be in relationship. (No, I am not saying that any particular rule is bad- only that it is not really about the rules!). To me, the Pharisees were AS in terms of their faith.Here is a bit more about how I approach faith as a believer and as an AS: I believe that I was fearfully and wonderfully made and that being AS and being willing to thank God for creating me this way is a deep act of worship. Equally, I believe that thanking God for making you NT (or NS) is another deep act of worship. I have submitted this entire thing to Him, and no longer have the negative self-image I had before I understood that I am on the spectrum. Once I realized that this is His will, it freed me to trust Him with it. (This is not to say anything about healing-

whatever the Lord shall do, I am fine with it- and believe that He will keep my personality intact if He chooses to heal me, while many "curebies" believe that we should all act "normal", whatever that is, and not be ourselves at all-- but that is another subject entirely.) AS (but not AS in terms of faith?)To: aspires-relationships Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 9:42:55 PMSubject: Re: Question about faith (for AS)

Thanks everyone, for your great answers so far! This is an interesting topic for me because although we are both devout Christians, my AS husband and I come to our faith in different ways. He sees the rational, logical side of it that I haven't been able to understand. For me, it's about... faith. Your answers have helped me to understand his point of view in a way he couldn't express to me. We are raising our two children, one AS, the other not, in our faith tradition but I was having a hard time with the boy's logic-based questions. Hope to see some other opinions here!

[aspires-relationsh ips] Question about faith (for AS)

> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith

> group? Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to

> faith in God? I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side

> that many with AS have and how this is reconciled with personal faith

> which often requires a non-logical/ scientific belief in someone that is

> not seen or heard.

> .

[Guest guest]

Hi Jennie,I like your post very much. You have not stepped on any toes that I know of- I have a friend who is an AS church organist, and she wears ear plugs whenever she needs to for anything being loud, because her hearing in incredibly sensitive and she also gets overwhelmed really fast. I think that if I heard anyone call you heathen, I would feel as if they stepped on my toes. I agree with !From: Lindenthal

To: AspiresRelationships <aspires-relationships >Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 9:22:50 PMSubject: Re: Question about faith (for AS)

Jennie...I think you said a big fat mouthful here...and I have one thing to say in response: Amen, sister! ~ "Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal."--Albert Camus Sent from my VZW BlackBerryFrom: Jennie Unknown <mossbtweenmetoes@ tds.net>

Sender: aspires-relationshi psyahoogroups (DOT) com

Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:12:37 -0700To: <aspires-relationshi psyahoogroups (DOT) com>ReplyTo: aspires-relationshi psyahoogroups (DOT) com

Subject: Re: [aspires-relationsh ips] Question about faith (for AS)

[aspires-relationsh ips] Question about faith (for AS)

> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith

> group? Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to

> faith in God? I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side

> that many with AS have and how this is reconciled with personal faith

> which often requires a non-logical/ scientific belief in someone that is

> not seen or heard.

>

Good question... I'll see if I can answer without stepping on any toes...

faith topics tend to be touchy...

I am AS and have no issue reconciling my faith with my logic. Here's the

thing... we take things on faith all the time. Everytime we sit in a chair

we are taking it on faith that it will hold us up. Especially when it is a

chair we have never seen before and know nothing about. It is very possible

a chair might not hold us up, it might just collapse under this. I actually

had this happen to me as a kid.

When we drive we take it on faith that other people are going to follow the

rules (this is why we get upset when they don't). We take it on faith they

will stop at the stop sign, or turn when their blinker is on, or not stop in

the middle of the intersection. We drive accordingly.

Contrary to a lot of popular opinion, there are scientific facts that

support the concept of a creator. That is why there are scientists who while

they aren't Christian do believe in a creator in terms of a higher being. I

can't remember the name but in the last few years there was a top

evolutionary scientist who changed his mind and switched 'sides'. He now

believes that science supports the idea of a creator more than it supports

evolution. (Though there are also scientists would who say the two sides

don't have to be separate.) there was a BIG who-ha about it and his

credibility was questioned and he was personally insulted... one wonders

WHY. There is archaeology that supports Biblical history depending on WHO

interprets. Of course all archaeology is argued over. The scientists

themselves can't agree on what things mean, yet they expect us to eat up

whatever they spoon feed us. It is a mistake to think religion or faith is

separate from science. Those scientists who argue for evolution have to make

many leaps of faith. They just don't CALL it faith, they call it 'logical

assumption' or 'reached the conclusion' or what have you. Then when new

evidence comes along that disproves their 'conclusion' (i.e. their leap of

faith) they just don't advertise it too loudly and hope most people don't

notice. (which bears a remarkable similarly to most religious people LOL)

There is a myth in the world that the 'experts' are way more intelligent and

know way more than the populous. As if the population of the world is

stupid. People forget that ANYONE, you or I or Joe off the street can become

a scientist just by going to school for awhile and doings some studies and

writing some papers. In fact one could become a scientist (one who studies

science) without going to an 'official school' at all. It's not like these

people are somehow special or blessed with super intelligence or something.

The fact is, bottom line, in the end the scientists are just airing their

opinions based on what they know just like anyone else. Just like doctors.

LOL Anyway... I digress...

My faith is simply a logical conclusion to the information I have. That

includes my personal experiences, books I have read, topics I have

researched, conversations I have had, etc. I gathered all the information

and 'reached a conclusion'. I do NOT view God/faith as emotion based and I

find that folk who do tend to have no clue why they believe what they

believe. They also tend to be very reactive. Won't have conversations about

the whys and wherefores and in general like to keep things about a quarter

inch from the surface. But that does not seem to be confined to NTs because

my very AS mother (presumed AS by me) has a very emotional, illogical,

irrational faith 'belief'. Her AS shows through though as she applies a

brutally black and white mentality to totally emotional view points and then

attempts to cram them down others throats. On the bright side however, she

has given me an example of how NOT to be and shown me how important it is to

rein in certain parts of me so they never get that over the edge! LOL I tell

my kids if I ever start acting like her that I expect them to put me in a

nursing home and leave me there.

I think a HUGE problem for AS folk in any religion is the close minded list

of rules presented. I've seen this in more churches I care to talk about. I

have learned to simply keep my mouth shut and say nothing because most

people cannot handle disagreement. But the fact of the matter is the Bible

does not support a lot of the things various groups say you need to do,

which were a big problem to me as and AS person. I always wanted to know

'WHY' and folks never wanted to even talk about it, let alone have an

answer. I suspect this is common for AS inquiring minds. For example there

are churches who look at you like you are a heathen if you don't participate

in the music portion of the service. I miss probably 90% of the music

because they play it so dang loud, it's like being hit on the head. I just

can't tolerate it, so I leave and sit in the hall way until it's over.

That's one of many issues I have run into. I learned to just be OK with

doing things my way and if someone has a problem with it, it's THEIR

problem, not mine. They can take it up with God. For many years though I

just stayed away. It was easier for me because I couldn't handle the anxiety

caused by people's attitudes toward me.

In the end, AS folk are no different than anyone else. We all 'reach

conclusions' based on the information we have. If you know an AS person who

doesn't buy into religion, maybe he or she has been presented a poor image

for religion. Maybe he or she just needs to see more information. Or maybe

just like anyone else on the planet he or she just flat out isn't

interested.

Hopefully I presented all sides here and didn't step on any toes!

Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

Hi,I must have missed the religion thread, but I would like to add a comment to s inquiry. My AS hubby's father was president of a baptist university, and has also written Christian motivational books. So my hubby was in church OFTEN. His father physically beat him, daily, at home. In my husbands entire childhood, he was never allowed to have one friend over, not even for an hour. Straight A, valedictorian, but not allowed to intermingle (no sports, clubs, dances, etc) But his father was a very public christian figure. So "religion" was confusing (fiction) to my husband. In college, he finally had access to "hang out" with others. And of course he was astounded to find that kids weren't usually beat.My husband is my hero. He moved to Illinois (away from Texas) to escape his parents' control in college. He didn't speak to them for 7 yrs; they "cut him off" for having a Jewish girlfriend. He has biology and genetics doctorates. He has lived in Kenya and Australia, and travelled extensively (access to different cultures) He says flat out that Jesus is no different than Santa Claus. It is his OPINION, and I am thankful that he has the courage to stand up and state it.He is very respectful of religions in general, and he can appreciate the structure and peace. But his sons, fresh air, trees, long walks, trusted friends, well-written literature, good coffee, honesty, an interesting hypothesis.....those are his "religion" meaning he relies on those.Shauna PsSorry its rambly (mine usually are). I am still struggling to stand up to my own evangelical zealot family members. I get on their church prayer list for simple comments like "wow, there's a new fossil bed in Peru being explored" (I'm supposed to know that fossils are fake, and are were created by democratic demons)

>

> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith group? Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to faith in God? I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side that many with AS have and how this is reconciled with personal faith which often requires a non-logical/scientific belief in someone that is not seen or heard.

>

>

After looking at everyone's answer and seeing how and Helen have allowed responses to be on here, I'll respond as well. I just wanted to let others respond first before I did.

I'll just put it this way - although I attend a congregation currently, I'm looking to leave there soon. I have developed more metaphysical views, which have brought increased understanding and clarity to my life, over the past 18 months. I have been on a spiritual journey since 2003, and keep seeing the evolvement of it from then to this day.

I have become spirtually, non-religious, as I believe in Universal Creator or Source (and people can choose to interpret that however they so please). I believe that people should choose whatever brings them relief, structure, whatever.

K.

[Guest guest]



My reply inserted below...

Re: Re: Question about faith (for AS)

Hi,

My AS hubby's father was president of a baptist university, and has also written Christian motivational books. So my hubby was in church OFTEN. His father physically beat him, daily, at home. In my husbands entire childhood, he was never allowed to have one friend over, not even for an hour. Straight A, valedictorian, but not allowed to intermingle (no sports, clubs, dances, etc) But his father was a very public christian figure. So "religion" was confusing (fiction) to my husband.

Jennie: I know the type, grew up around the type, Fortunately my father was not of that persuasion though he will not stand up to others who are.

In college, he finally had access to "hang out" with others. And of course he was astounded to find that kids weren't usually beat.

Jennie: This reminds me of the story my pastor told. He also grew up in an abusive family. When he was in seminary he decided he wanted to learn how to be a good father so he decided to babysit for one of the professors kids because the professor was kind of his hero. He asked the kid how often his dad beat him. He wanted to know what was the usual amount of beating. He said it took him some time to believe the kid when he kept saying his daddy never beat him. He thought ALL fathers's beat their children and it was just a matter of finding out what was the right amount.

Ps

Sorry its rambly (mine usually are). I am still struggling to stand up to my own evangelical zealot family members. I get on their church prayer list for simple comments like "wow, there's a new fossil bed in Peru being explored" (I'm supposed to know that fossils are fake, and are were created by democratic demons)

Jennie: This made me laugh, just because it sounds like my family and my husband's family. You just never know what innocent statement of fact might set them off on some crazy nutty rant. My husband has cut off all contact with his family because they are abusive and my mother is not talking to me because I talked back. Sometimes the nuts will leave you alone if you just talk back and say something blunt and factual that disagrees with them. They then write you off as 'unsalvagable', which isn't so bad once you get used to not being tormented and bugged. heh At any rate I wouldn't worry about being on the prayer list, prayer is more for the person praying than it is for anyone else so maybe it will do them good. LOL

[Guest guest]



, I have tried ear plugs but they drive me batty also. They make a loud crinkly crackly noise as they rub on the little tiny hairs inside my ear... auurrgh! I wish I could find some that don't annoy me just as much as the music. I did find some ear buds for my mp3 player that are ok for a while so I think I should check out all the ear plugs again and see if they have anything new on the market. I have seriously thought about ear muffs but just don't have the nerve to look that weird. So I just leave when they are having a loud day. Once in awhile they have some ladies with fiddles and other stringed instruments and they are not amplified and it sounds really nice to me. Sometimes I get the urge to go up and hide the symbols though. LOL Not that I ever would, just it would be nice. Symbols are neat in the open air where the sound can dissipate but in a closed building they are just too loud for me.

So far as toe stepping, I have been thinking about that and realized that growing up I just got used to people being rude and stepping on my toes and treating me like I was invisible so I came to just think it was normal. I didn't question it, just thought that was how all people were treated all the time. It's only been in the last few years that I have started seeing I really don't have to put up with that. I have been surprised when I stand up for myself and find some people will actually apologize. I still tend to expect them to get angry because that is what it was like my whole life with those other people. You were never to question anything and if you did they got angry. I had some of them even get angry at me for objecting to them being directly and obviously rude to me. For example they would do something like make fun of me with other people right in front of me and when I got mad and told them it was not an acceptable way to behave they got mad. Looking back I just think 'what a bunch of crazy nut cases!' but at the time I thought that was normal. I had to reach a point where I decided whether I would rather be treated like *rap or would I rather be alone with some self respect.

Jennie AS

[aspires-relationsh ips] Question about faith (for AS)> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith > group? Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to > faith in God? I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side > that many with AS have and how this is reconciled with personal faith > which often requires a non-logical/ scientific belief in someone that is > not seen or heard.> Good question... I'll see if I can answer without stepping on any toes... faith topics tend to be touchy...I am AS and have no issue reconciling my faith with my logic. Here's the thing... we take things on faith all the time. Everytime we sit in a chair we are taking it on faith that it will hold us up. Especially when it is a chair we have never seen before and know nothing about. It is very possible a chair might not hold us up, it might just collapse under this. I actually had this happen to me as a kid.When we drive we take it on faith that other people are going to follow the rules (this is why we get upset when they don't). We take it on faith they will stop at the stop sign, or turn when their blinker is on, or not stop in the middle of the intersection. We drive accordingly.Contrary to a lot of popular opinion, there are scientific facts that support the concept of a creator. That is why there are scientists who while they aren't Christian do believe in a creator in terms of a higher being. I can't remember the name but in the last few years there was a top evolutionary scientist who changed his mind and switched 'sides'. He now believes that science supports the idea of a creator more than it supports evolution. (Though there are also scientists would who say the two sides don't have to be separate.) there was a BIG who-ha about it and his credibility was questioned and he was personally insulted... one wonders WHY. There is archaeology that supports Biblical history depending on WHO interprets. Of course all archaeology is argued over. The scientists themselves can't agree on what things mean, yet they expect us to eat up whatever they spoon feed us. It is a mistake to think religion or faith is separate from science. Those scientists who argue for evolution have to make many leaps of faith. They just don't CALL it faith, they call it 'logical assumption' or 'reached the conclusion' or what have you. Then when new evidence comes along that disproves their 'conclusion' (i.e. their leap of faith) they just don't advertise it too loudly and hope most people don't notice. (which bears a remarkable similarly to most religious people LOL)There is a myth in the world that the 'experts' are way more intelligent and know way more than the populous. As if the population of the world is stupid. People forget that ANYONE, you or I or Joe off the street can become a scientist just by going to school for awhile and doings some studies and writing some papers. In fact one could become a scientist (one who studies science) without going to an 'official school' at all. It's not like these people are somehow special or blessed with super intelligence or something. The fact is, bottom line, in the end the scientists are just airing their opinions based on what they know just like anyone else. Just like doctors. LOL Anyway... I digress...My faith is simply a logical conclusion to the information I have. That includes my personal experiences, books I have read, topics I have researched, conversations I have had, etc. I gathered all the information and 'reached a conclusion'. I do NOT view God/faith as emotion based and I find that folk who do tend to have no clue why they believe what they believe. They also tend to be very reactive. Won't have conversations about the whys and wherefores and in general like to keep things about a quarter inch from the surface. But that does not seem to be confined to NTs because my very AS mother (presumed AS by me) has a very emotional, illogical, irrational faith 'belief'. Her AS shows through though as she applies a brutally black and white mentality to totally emotional view points and then attempts to cram them down others throats. On the bright side however, she has given me an example of how NOT to be and shown me how important it is to rein in certain parts of me so they never get that over the edge! LOL I tell my kids if I ever start acting like her that I expect them to put me in a nursing home and leave me there.I think a HUGE problem for AS folk in any religion is the close minded list of rules presented. I've seen this in more churches I care to talk about. I have learned to simply keep my mouth shut and say nothing because most people cannot handle disagreement. But the fact of the matter is the Bible does not support a lot of the things various groups say you need to do, which were a big problem to me as and AS person. I always wanted to know 'WHY' and folks never wanted to even talk about it, let alone have an answer. I suspect this is common for AS inquiring minds. For example there are churches who look at you like you are a heathen if you don't participate in the music portion of the service. I miss probably 90% of the music because they play it so dang loud, it's like being hit on the head. I just can't tolerate it, so I leave and sit in the hall way until it's over. That's one of many issues I have run into. I learned to just be OK with doing things my way and if someone has a problem with it, it's THEIR problem, not mine. They can take it up with God. For many years though I just stayed away. It was easier for me because I couldn't handle the anxiety caused by people's attitudes toward me.In the end, AS folk are no different than anyone else. We all 'reach conclusions' based on the information we have. If you know an AS person who doesn't buy into religion, maybe he or she has been presented a poor image for religion. Maybe he or she just needs to see more information. Or maybe just like anyone else on the planet he or she just flat out isn't interested.Hopefully I presented all sides here and didn't step on any toes!Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

Hi Jennie,You have a point: my friend does not mind looking weird to others, in that sometimes she wears headphones, too. Maybe, when you are actually the choir director that is okay- she lives in another state, and her church is too far away, but I would love to go there sometime to hear her play. I have not tried earphones, but a crackling noise would not be any help- and I can see what you mean. I have to grin when I think of your hiding the cymbals : ~ ) I do have one friend who wears hats all the time, and wonder if any kind of hat could help- or a scarf- to cover up tiny headphones- I have no idea if this idea is any good or not.I can see what you mean about people's being rude and stepping on toes. I had some of this same thing in my life, and

had to learn that everyone is not inconsiderate like that, too- but for me, it was in the areas of lack of patience and in the area of not taking the needs of others into account when making plans. In fact, in my life, my dad was one of the prime culprits, and he changed quite a bit over the years, so just seeing that made a huge difference to me. He did make a huge deal of saying I could not contradict him when I was a girl even when he was clearly wrong (provided he was acting as an authority and not just talking, when he did not mind it), but it was mitigated by my mother and her family, who liked the critical thinking that went into it, and never once took offense when I just tried to learn the right thing and asked interesting questions. I am only now learning that there are ways of asking more carefully so as not to offend someone's pride, but as a girl, nobody took the time to teach them to me or realized they had to- if

anyone knew there were any- and besides, my mother's whole family was and is very direct when they speak to each other about anything, so I did not have to learn to be careful with them.To: aspires-relationships Sent: Sun, July 4, 2010 2:09:41 AMSubject: Re: Question about faith (for AS)



, I have tried ear plugs but they drive me batty also. They make a loud crinkly crackly noise as they rub on the little tiny hairs inside my ear... auurrgh! I wish I could find some that don't annoy me just as much as the music. I did find some ear buds for my mp3 player that are ok for a while so I think I should check out all the ear plugs again and see if they have anything new on the market. I have seriously thought about ear muffs but just don't have the nerve to look that weird. So I just leave when they are having a loud day. Once in awhile they have some ladies with fiddles and other stringed instruments and they are not amplified and it sounds really nice to me. Sometimes I get the urge to go up and hide the symbols though. LOL Not that I ever would, just it would be nice. Symbols are neat in the open air where the sound can dissipate but in a closed building they are just too loud for me.

So far as toe stepping, I have been thinking about that and realized that growing up I just got used to people being rude and stepping on my toes and treating me like I was invisible so I came to just think it was normal. I didn't question it, just thought that was how all people were treated all the time. It's only been in the last few years that I have started seeing I really don't have to put up with that. I have been surprised when I stand up for myself and find some people will actually apologize. I still tend to expect them to get angry because that is what it was like my whole life with those other people. You were never to question anything and if you did they got angry. I had some of them even get angry at me for objecting to them being directly and obviously rude to me. For example they would do something like make fun of me with other people right in front of me and when I got mad and told them it was not an acceptable way to behave they got mad. Looking back I just think 'what a bunch of crazy nut cases!' but at the time I thought that was normal. I had to reach a point where I decided whether I would rather be treated like *rap or would I rather be alone with some self respect.

Jennie AS

[aspires-relationsh ips] Question about faith (for AS)> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith > group? Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to > faith in God? I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side > that many with AS have and how this is reconciled with personal faith > which often requires a non-logical/ scientific belief in someone that is > not seen or heard.> Good question... I'll see if I can answer without stepping on any toes... faith topics tend to be touchy...I am AS and have no issue reconciling my faith with my logic. Here's the thing... we take things on faith all the time. Everytime we sit in a chair we are taking it on faith that it will hold us up. Especially when it is a chair we have never seen before and know nothing about. It is very possible a chair might not hold us up, it might just collapse under this. I actually had this happen to me as a kid.When we drive we take it on faith that other people are going to follow the rules (this is why we get upset when they don't). We take it on faith they will stop at the stop sign, or turn when their blinker is on, or not stop in the middle of the intersection. We drive accordingly.Contrary to a lot of popular opinion, there are scientific facts that support the concept of a creator. That is why there are scientists who while they aren't Christian do believe in a creator in terms of a higher being. I can't remember the name but in the last few years there was a top evolutionary scientist who changed his mind and switched 'sides'. He now believes that science supports the idea of a creator more than it supports evolution. (Though there are also scientists would who say the two sides don't have to be separate.) there was a BIG who-ha about it and his credibility was questioned and he was personally insulted... one wonders WHY. There is archaeology that supports Biblical history depending on WHO interprets. Of course all archaeology is argued over. The scientists themselves can't agree on what things mean, yet they expect us to eat up whatever they spoon feed us. It is a mistake to think religion or faith is separate from science. Those scientists who argue for evolution have to make many leaps of faith. They just don't CALL it faith, they call it 'logical assumption' or 'reached the conclusion' or what have you. Then when new evidence comes along that disproves their 'conclusion' (i.e. their leap of faith) they just don't advertise it too loudly and hope most people don't notice. (which bears a remarkable similarly to most religious people LOL)There is a myth in the world that the 'experts' are way more intelligent and know way more than the populous. As if the population of the world is stupid. People forget that ANYONE, you or I or Joe off the street can become a scientist just by going to school for awhile and doings some studies and writing some papers. In fact one could become a scientist (one who studies science) without going to an 'official school' at all. It's not like these people are somehow special or blessed with super intelligence or something. The fact is, bottom line, in the end the scientists are just airing their opinions based on what they know just like anyone else. Just like doctors. LOL Anyway... I digress...My faith is simply a logical conclusion to the information I have. That includes my personal experiences, books I have read, topics I have researched, conversations I have had, etc. I gathered all the information and 'reached a conclusion'. I do NOT view God/faith as emotion based and I find that folk who do tend to have no clue why they believe what they believe. They also tend to be very reactive. Won't have conversations about the whys and wherefores and in general like to keep things about a quarter inch from the surface. But that does not seem to be confined to NTs because my very AS mother (presumed AS by me) has a very emotional, illogical, irrational faith 'belief'. Her AS shows through though as she applies a brutally black and white mentality to totally emotional view points and then attempts to cram them down others throats. On the bright side however, she has given me an example of how NOT to be and shown me how important it is to rein in certain parts of me so they never get that over the edge! LOL I tell my kids if I ever start acting like her that I expect them to put me in a nursing home and leave me there.I think a HUGE problem for AS folk in any religion is the close minded list of rules presented. I've seen this in more churches I care to talk about. I have learned to simply keep my mouth shut and say nothing because most people cannot handle disagreement. But the fact of the matter is the Bible does not support a lot of the things various groups say you need to do, which were a big problem to me as and AS person. I always wanted to know 'WHY' and folks never wanted to even talk about it, let alone have an answer. I suspect this is common for AS inquiring minds. For example there are churches who look at you like you are a heathen if you don't participate in the music portion of the service. I miss probably 90% of the music because they play it so dang loud, it's like being hit on the head. I just can't tolerate it, so I leave and sit in the hall way until it's over. That's one of many issues I have run into. I learned to just be OK with doing things my way and if someone has a problem with it, it's THEIR problem, not mine. They can take it up with God. For many years though I just stayed away. It was easier for me because I couldn't handle the anxiety caused by people's attitudes toward me.In the end, AS folk are no different than anyone else. We all 'reach conclusions' based on the information we have. If you know an AS person who doesn't buy into religion, maybe he or she has been presented a poor image for religion. Maybe he or she just needs to see more information. Or maybe just like anyone else on the planet he or she just flat out isn't interested.Hopefully I presented all sides here and didn't step on any toes!Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

Wow Jennie - I just love your post here! I have to insert my Amen as well!

>

> Hi Jennie,

>

> You have a point: my friend does not mind looking weird to others, in that

> sometimes she wears headphones, too. Maybe, when you are actually the choir

> director that is okay- she lives in another state, and her church is too far

> away, but I would love to go there sometime to hear her play. I have not

tried

> earphones, but a crackling noise would not be any help- and I can see what you

> mean. I have to grin when I think of your hiding the cymbals : ~ ) I do

have

> one friend who wears hats all the time, and wonder if any kind of hat could

> help- or a scarf- to cover up tiny headphones- I have no idea if this idea is

> any good or not.

>

> I can see what you mean about people's being rude and stepping on toes. I had

> some of this same thing in my life, and had to learn that everyone is not

> inconsiderate like that, too- but for me, it was in the areas of lack of

> patience and in the area of not taking the needs of others into account when

> making plans. In fact, in my life, my dad was one of the prime culprits, and

he

> changed quite a bit over the years, so just seeing that made a huge difference

> to me. He did make a huge deal of saying I could not contradict him when I

was

> a girl even when he was clearly wrong (provided he was acting as an authority

> and not just talking, when he did not mind it), but it was mitigated by my

> mother and her family, who liked the critical thinking that went into it, and

> never once took offense when I just tried to learn the right thing and asked

> interesting questions. I am only now learning that there are ways of asking

> more carefully so as not to offend someone's pride, but as a girl, nobody took

> the time to teach them to me or realized they had to- if anyone knew there

were

> any- and besides, my mother's whole family was and is very direct when they

> speak to each other about anything, so I did not have to learn to be careful

> with them.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: aspires-relationships

> Sent: Sun, July 4, 2010 2:09:41 AM

> Subject: Re: Question about faith (for AS)

>

>

> 

> , I have tried ear plugs but they drive me batty also. They make a

loud

> crinkly crackly noise as they rub on the little tiny hairs inside my ear...

> auurrgh! I wish I could find some that don't annoy me just as much as the

music.

> I did find some ear buds for my mp3 player that are ok for a while so I think

I

> should check out all the ear plugs again and see if they have anything new on

> the market. I have seriously thought about ear muffs but just don't have the

> nerve to look that weird. So I just leave when they are having a loud day.

Once

> in awhile they have some ladies with fiddles and other stringed instruments

and

> they are not amplified and it sounds really nice to me. Sometimes I get the

urge

> to go up and hide the symbols though. LOL Not that I ever would, just it would

> be nice. Symbols are neat in the open air where the sound can dissipate but in

a

> closed building they are just too loud for me.

>

>

> So far as toe stepping, I have been thinking about that and realized that

> growing up I just got used to people being rude and stepping on my toes and

> treating me like I was invisible so I came to just think it was normal. I

didn't

> question it, just thought that was how all people were treated all the time.

> It's only been in the last few years that I have started seeing I really don't

> have to put up with that. I have been surprised when I stand up for myself and

> find some people will actually apologize. I still tend to expect them to get

> angry because that is what it was like my whole life with those other people.

> You were never to question anything and if you did they got angry. I had some

of

> them even get angry at me for objecting to them being directly and obviously

> rude to me. For example they would do something like make fun of me with other

> people right in front of me and when I got mad and told them it was not an

> acceptable way to behave they got mad. Looking back I just think 'what a bunch

> of crazy nut cases!' but at the time I thought that was normal. I had to reach

a

> point where I decided whether I would rather be treated like *rap or would I

> rather be alone with some self respect.

>

>

> Jennie AS

> [aspires-relationsh ips] Question about faith (for AS)

> >

> >> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith

> >> group? Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn

to

> >> faith in God? I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side

> >> that many with AS have and how this is reconciled with personal faith

> >> which often requires a non-logical/ scientific belief in someone that is

> >> not seen or heard.

> >>

> >

> >Good question... I'll see if I can answer without stepping on any toes...

> >faith topics tend to be touchy...

> >

> >I am AS and have no issue reconciling my faith with my logic. Here's the

> >thing... we take things on faith all the time. Everytime we sit in a chair

> >we are taking it on faith that it will hold us up. Especially when it is a

> >chair we have never seen before and know nothing about. It is very

possible

> >a chair might not hold us up, it might just collapse under this. I

actually

> >had this happen to me as a kid.

> >

> >When we drive we take it on faith that other people are going to follow

the

> >rules (this is why we get upset when they don't). We take it on faith they

> >will stop at the stop sign, or turn when their blinker is on, or not stop

in

>

> >the middle of the intersection. We drive accordingly.

> >

> >Contrary to a lot of popular opinion, there are scientific facts that

> >support the concept of a creator. That is why there are scientists who

while

>

> >they aren't Christian do believe in a creator in terms of a higher being.

I

> >can't remember the name but in the last few years there was a top

> >evolutionary scientist who changed his mind and switched 'sides'. He now

> >believes that science supports the idea of a creator more than it supports

> >evolution. (Though there are also scientists would who say the two sides

> >don't have to be separate.) there was a BIG who-ha about it and his

> >credibility was questioned and he was personally insulted... one wonders

> >WHY. There is archaeology that supports Biblical history depending on WHO

> >interprets. Of course all archaeology is argued over. The scientists

> >themselves can't agree on what things mean, yet they expect us to eat up

> >whatever they spoon feed us. It is a mistake to think religion or faith is

> >separate from science. Those scientists who argue for evolution have to

make

>

> >many leaps of faith. They just don't CALL it faith, they call it 'logical

> >assumption' or 'reached the conclusion' or what have you. Then when new

> >evidence comes along that disproves their 'conclusion' (i.e. their leap of

> >faith) they just don't advertise it too loudly and hope most people don't

> >notice. (which bears a remarkable similarly to most religious people LOL)

> >

> >There is a myth in the world that the 'experts' are way more intelligent

and

>

> >know way more than the populous. As if the population of the world is

> >stupid. People forget that ANYONE, you or I or Joe off the street can

become

>

> >a scientist just by going to school for awhile and doings some studies and

> >writing some papers. In fact one could become a scientist (one who studies

> >science) without going to an 'official school' at all. It's not like these

> >people are somehow special or blessed with super intelligence or

something.

> >The fact is, bottom line, in the end the scientists are just airing their

> >opinions based on what they know just like anyone else. Just like doctors.

> >LOL Anyway... I digress...

> >

> >My faith is simply a logical conclusion to the information I have. That

> >includes my personal experiences, books I have read, topics I have

> >researched, conversations I have had, etc. I gathered all the information

> >and 'reached a conclusion'. I do NOT view God/faith as emotion based and I

> >find that folk who do tend to have no clue why they believe what they

> >believe. They also tend to be very reactive. Won't have conversations

about

> >the whys and wherefores and in general like to keep things about a quarter

> >inch from the surface. But that does not seem to be confined to NTs

because

> >my very AS mother (presumed AS by me) has a very emotional, illogical,

> >irrational faith 'belief'. Her AS shows through though as she applies a

> >brutally black and white mentality to totally emotional view points and

then

>

> >attempts to cram them down others throats. On the bright side however, she

> >has given me an example of how NOT to be and shown me how important it is

to

>

> >rein in certain parts of me so they never get that over the edge! LOL I

tell

>

> >my kids if I ever start acting like her that I expect them to put me in a

> >nursing home and leave me there.

> >

> >I think a HUGE problem for AS folk in any religion is the close minded

list

> >of rules presented. I've seen this in more churches I care to talk about.

I

> >have learned to simply keep my mouth shut and say nothing because most

> >people cannot handle disagreement. But the fact of the matter is the Bible

> >does not support a lot of the things various groups say you need to do,

> >which were a big problem to me as and AS person. I always wanted to know

> >'WHY' and folks never wanted to even talk about it, let alone have an

> >answer. I suspect this is common for AS inquiring minds. For example there

> >are churches who look at you like you are a heathen if you don't

participate

>

> >in the music portion of the service. I miss probably 90% of the music

> >because they play it so dang loud, it's like being hit on the head. I just

> >can't tolerate it, so I leave and sit in the hall way until it's over.

> >That's one of many issues I have run into. I learned to just be OK with

> >doing things my way and if someone has a problem with it, it's THEIR

> >problem, not mine. They can take it up with God. For many years though I

> >just stayed away. It was easier for me because I couldn't handle the

anxiety

>

> >caused by people's attitudes toward me.

> >

> >In the end, AS folk are no different than anyone else. We all 'reach

> >conclusions' based on the information we have. If you know an AS person

who

> >doesn't buy into religion, maybe he or she has been presented a poor image

> >for religion. Maybe he or she just needs to see more information. Or maybe

> >just like anyone else on the planet he or she just flat out isn't

> >interested.

> >

> >Hopefully I presented all sides here and didn't step on any toes!

> >

> >Jennie AS

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

For me, the faith " question " has been a rather tricky one. Having been abused

by an agnostic/atheist parent, I think that some " religion " could have done them

so good. HOWEVER, I ended up, earlier on in life, adopting the religion of my

step-family. The churches that I attended were Protestant. In fact, was

President of my Sunday School class for a couple of years (despite having grown

up going to Church only once every few years). I did have certain problems,

though,with different aspects of Christianity - including the various things

about JESUS. This situation is my own personal struggle, based upon my

understandings, life experiences, etc.

I found out in my late teenage and early adult years, that various ancestors /

relatives of mine might have been, or were, of Jewish descent. Before I had

given more serious consideration to changing where I worship, how I worship,

etc. - I had already had people tell me that I was " different " - my curly hair,

talking with my hands, from time-to-time, etc. Even certain family members told

me that they thought I was Jewish. Little did I know, that this wasn't meant in

a positive light!

After spending nearly a month, going online and reading up on the various

religions, their take on why they were right, as opposed to others, what they

actually believed, etc. - guess what: my beliefs, thoughts, ideas about life,

world view, etc., much more closely matched the Jewish faith than Christianity.

Having belonged to a synagogue for over half a decade, I identify myself solely

as being Jewish.

I don't wish to get into philosophical discussions regarding religion. Was just

simply answering the question that was posed about how I view faith...along with

what I thought might be reasonable inferences as to what the person who asked

the question was truly asking.

As a reminder, so to speak, I DON'T WISH TO DISCUSS THE PHILOSOPHY DETAILS, or

otherwise, regarding my choice of religious beliefs; nor do I wish to be treated

differently regarding them. Aspergers, ADHD, and OCD, along with PTSD from

abuse, already has me well enough aware that I'm " diferent " - don't wish to have

any more pointing out of my being " different " , please.

Mark

>

> For our AS friends: do you consider yourself to be a member of a faith group?

Do you think people with AS are more or less likely to be drawn to faith in God?

I'm wondering especially about the logical, factual side that many with AS have

and how this is reconciled with personal faith which often requires a

non-logical/scientific belief in someone that is not seen or heard.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> ..... I found out in my late teenage and early adult years, that various

ancestors / relatives of mine might have been, or were, of Jewish descent.

Before I had given more serious consideration to changing where I worship, how I

worship, etc. - I had already had people tell me that I was " different " - my

curly hair, talking with my hands, from time-to-time, etc. Even certain family

members told me that they thought I was Jewish. Little did I know, that this

wasn't meant in a positive light!

Grrr... there's a lot in this paragraph that bothers me -- not from you Mark,

but from those around you who think they can tell religion from appearance. [i

lived my teen years in San Diego and had the opposite problem -- other high

school students refused to believe I was Jewish because I have straight light

brown hair.]

> After spending nearly a month, going online and reading up on the various

religions, their take on why they were right, as opposed to others, what they

actually believed, etc. - guess what: my beliefs, thoughts, ideas about life,

world view, etc., much more closely matched the Jewish faith than Christianity.

Having belonged to a synagogue for over half a decade, I identify myself solely

as being Jewish.

Mark, if you ever want to talk religion online, send me a private note. I don't

know which New England congregation you belong to, but you'd probably like the

one I'm in.

--Liz

------------

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[Guest guest]

> I have become spirtually, non-religious, as I believe in Universal Creator or

Source (and people can choose to interpret that however they so please). I

believe that people should choose whatever brings them relief, structure,

whatever.

>

> K.

>

I am curious as to what brings any on the list the relief that scott talks of?

Is there relief in doing what YOU " think " is right or is there relief in doing

what the Universal Creator tells us is right in the bible?

I ask because there was a lot of stuff that I " thought " was right but have had

pointed out as incorrect by being shown scriptures that say otherwise.

I've stopped listening to what others think, I am only interested in what God

has said.

Or have I gone too far?

Phil