Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Yet, I continue to be a Vliet fan... just won't go to her. WOW OMG WOW again, I am so glad you shared this with us! I love her in her books, but in real life she sucks..........your poor friend!!!!!!!!!!!! I would follow her BOOK advise, NOT her office advise. SO GLAD I did'n pay $$ to go see her .....her books helped me through the WP crisis. THANKS AGAIN for sharing that with us!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Madeleen... Yes, she does charge plenty! One of the gals in our hair loss BHRT group sees her. (She wouldn't mind me sharing on this level :-)) She has been to a large number of doctors prior to Vliet and her situation is complicated... hypothyroid, neck pain, POD, arthritis, depression, super difficult birth from which she couldn't recover, then massive hair loss. Vliet put her on Ortho-cyclin to keep androgens in check and made an adjustment to her synthroid. When I met this girl on a public board she was suffering an extreme BCP TE on top of a previous HE (hormonal effluvium) as well as a number of other symptoms, ie. night sweats, brain drain, thin bladder wall.... Many of us think she is low estradiol and needs a greater quantity than most. Vliet is vehemently against upping the estradiol and wants it at a .1 mg Vivelle Dot. She was completely against this girl going off the pill in the first place and was not at all convinced she would grow her hair back and find wellness on BHRT. Those of us in our present group prompt her in confronting Vliet and advocating some flexibility with personal preference and some experimentation. According to what I can tell Vliet is " locked in " even though our gal is clearly " Screaming... " It's an on going power struggle between them, with our gal continuing to rack up huge telephone bills (275. for 15 min.) and ending up with tons of frustration. She feels she can not move on to another doctor after having invested so much. Recently she had a problem with cycling P, depression, greater hair loss, pelvic pain.... and Vliet told her it was from the shock of going off 200 mg 14 days P and argued for her to be continuos, 100 mg a day. Finally Vliet agreed to let her try the greater dose of E, which puts her up to .2 mg transdermal. In blood terms with the Vivelle Dot, this should give her a blood level of approx. 190 ng/ml... not over doing it by any standards. Personally, I am distressed that Vliet is so knowledgeable about estradiol, yet is hell bent on the pill and clearly, from my point of view, is unable to deal with hair loss. She mentioned during their last 275.chat that hair was not the greatest concern going. Clearly it isn't, yet, I don't see how our friend has benefited from this " care " in any way. Yet, I continue to be a Vliet fan... just won't go to her. This is all I know! > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and hands > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in the > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.  I can't > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the fifth day > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read. > > > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading of 10 > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since starting > > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet that I > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. Maybe > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any case, > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and see what > > happens. > > > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested it and it > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called me to > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this group > > and changed my mind. > > > > > >> From: Nuimom@... > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving > >> To: rhythmicliving > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you > >> trust? > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, > >> hatfield100@... writes: > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I could even use > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood work, > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took oral P, > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap too, > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all my E. > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares. They > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the fat > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this for 2 > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL, are > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of us are > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN SKIN.....tops > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best. Keep up > >>> posted, thanks, )) > >>  > >>  > >> > >> > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/ > >> > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not > >> intended as medical advice.** > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Eileen, I really appreciate this post. I've often wondered if she would be worth the money.....now I know to just stick with her books. I wonder why the descrepency though. Very curious what the deal is..... Lynn > Madeleen... Yes, she does charge plenty! One of the gals in our hair loss BHRT group sees > her. (She wouldn't mind me sharing on this level :-)) > > She has been to a large number of doctors prior to Vliet and her situation is complicated... > hypothyroid, neck pain, POD, arthritis, depression, super difficult birth from which she > couldn't recover, then massive hair loss. > > Vliet put her on Ortho-cyclin to keep androgens in check and made an adjustment to her > synthroid. When I met this girl on a public board she was suffering an extreme BCP TE on > top of a previous HE (hormonal effluvium) as well as a number of other symptoms, ie. > night sweats, brain drain, thin bladder wall.... Many of us think she is low estradiol and > needs a greater quantity than most. Vliet is vehemently against upping the estradiol and > wants it at a .1 mg Vivelle Dot. She was completely against this girl going off the pill in > the first place and was not at all convinced she would grow her hair back and find wellness > on BHRT. Those of us in our present group prompt her in confronting Vliet and > advocating some flexibility with personal preference and some experimentation. > According to what I can tell Vliet is " locked in " even though our gal is clearly " Screaming... " > > It's an on going power struggle between them, with our gal continuing to rack up huge > telephone bills (275. for 15 min.) and ending up with tons of frustration. She feels she can > not move on to another doctor after having invested so much. > > Recently she had a problem with cycling P, depression, greater hair loss, pelvic pain.... and > Vliet told her it was from the shock of going off 200 mg 14 days P and argued for her to > be continuos, 100 mg a day. Finally Vliet agreed to let her try the greater dose of E, which > puts her up to .2 mg transdermal. In blood terms with the Vivelle Dot, this should give her > a blood level of approx. 190 ng/ml... not over doing it by any standards. > > Personally, I am distressed that Vliet is so knowledgeable about estradiol, yet is hell bent > on the pill and clearly, from my point of view, is unable to deal with hair loss. She > mentioned during their last 275.chat that hair was not the greatest concern going. Clearly > it isn't, yet, I don't see how our friend has benefited from this " care " in any way. > > Yet, I continue to be a Vliet fan... just won't go to her. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 .... for anything I can not tell you the reason for the discrepancy! Can't figure it! If I do I'll let you know. > Eileen, > I really appreciate this post. I've often wondered if she would be > worth the money.....now I know to just stick with her books. I wonder > why the descrepency though. Very curious what the deal is..... > > Lynn > > > Madeleen... Yes, she does charge plenty! One of the gals in our > hair loss BHRT group sees > > her. (She wouldn't mind me sharing on this level :-)) > > > > She has been to a large number of doctors prior to Vliet and her > situation is complicated... > > hypothyroid, neck pain, POD, arthritis, depression, super difficult > birth from which she > > couldn't recover, then massive hair loss. > > > > Vliet put her on Ortho-cyclin to keep androgens in check and made an > adjustment to her > > synthroid. When I met this girl on a public board she was suffering > an extreme BCP TE on > > top of a previous HE (hormonal effluvium) as well as a number of > other symptoms, ie. > > night sweats, brain drain, thin bladder wall.... Many of us think > she is low estradiol and > > needs a greater quantity than most. Vliet is vehemently against > upping the estradiol and > > wants it at a .1 mg Vivelle Dot. She was completely against this > girl going off the pill in > > the first place and was not at all convinced she would grow her hair > back and find wellness > > on BHRT. Those of us in our present group prompt her in confronting > Vliet and > > advocating some flexibility with personal preference and some > experimentation. > > According to what I can tell Vliet is " locked in " even though our > gal is clearly " Screaming... " > > > > It's an on going power struggle between them, with our gal > continuing to rack up huge > > telephone bills (275. for 15 min.) and ending up with tons of > frustration. She feels she can > > not move on to another doctor after having invested so much. > > > > Recently she had a problem with cycling P, depression, greater hair > loss, pelvic pain.... and > > Vliet told her it was from the shock of going off 200 mg 14 days P > and argued for her to > > be continuos, 100 mg a day. Finally Vliet agreed to let her try the > greater dose of E, which > > puts her up to .2 mg transdermal. In blood terms with the Vivelle > Dot, this should give her > > a blood level of approx. 190 ng/ml... not over doing it by any > standards. > > > > Personally, I am distressed that Vliet is so knowledgeable about > estradiol, yet is hell bent > > on the pill and clearly, from my point of view, is unable to deal > with hair loss. She > > mentioned during their last 275.chat that hair was not the greatest > concern going. Clearly > > it isn't, yet, I don't see how our friend has benefited from this > " care " in any way. > > > > Yet, I continue to be a Vliet fan... just won't go to her. > > > > > > > > > > > > > click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/ > > **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not > intended as medical advice.** > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 My Eileen, this is quite a disconcerting story. I wonder what her estrogen blood levels are??? Are they up there in the 190 ng/ml level? I would be surprised it they are up with that little estrogen and that much progesterone. Of course I do not know what her age is and other circumstances, which Vliet may be taking into consideration. And aahh, no woman likes to have hair loss, so she sounds dismissive about that. Not a wonderful thing. thanks for sharing this very informative post. Keep us posted as to her progress. Madeleen Eileen wrote: Madeleen... Yes, she does charge plenty! One of the gals in our hair loss BHRT group sees her. (She wouldn't mind me sharing on this level :-)) She has been to a large number of doctors prior to Vliet and her situation is complicated... hypothyroid, neck pain, POD, arthritis, depression, super difficult birth from which she couldn't recover, then massive hair loss. Vliet put her on Ortho-cyclin to keep androgens in check and made an adjustment to her synthroid. When I met this girl on a public board she was suffering an extreme BCP TE on top of a previous HE (hormonal effluvium) as well as a number of other symptoms, ie. night sweats, brain drain, thin bladder wall.... Many of us think she is low estradiol and needs a greater quantity than most. Vliet is vehemently against upping the estradiol and wants it at a .1 mg Vivelle Dot. She was completely against this girl going off the pill in the first place and was not at all convinced she would grow her hair back and find wellness on BHRT. Those of us in our present group prompt her in confronting Vliet and advocating some flexibility with personal preference and some experimentation. According to what I can tell Vliet is "locked in" even though our gal is clearly "Screaming..."It's an on going power struggle between them, with our gal continuing to rack up huge telephone bills (275. for 15 min.) and ending up with tons of frustration. She feels she can not move on to another doctor after having invested so much.Recently she had a problem with cycling P, depression, greater hair loss, pelvic pain.... and Vliet told her it was from the shock of going off 200 mg 14 days P and argued for her to be continuos, 100 mg a day. Finally Vliet agreed to let her try the greater dose of E, which puts her up to .2 mg transdermal. In blood terms with the Vivelle Dot, this should give her a blood level of approx. 190 ng/ml... not over doing it by any standards.Personally, I am distressed that Vliet is so knowledgeable about estradiol, yet is hell bent on the pill and clearly, from my point of view, is unable to deal with hair loss. She mentioned during their last 275.chat that hair was not the greatest concern going. Clearly it isn't, yet, I don't see how our friend has benefited from this "care" in any way.Yet, I continue to be a Vliet fan... just won't go to her. This is all I know! > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and hands > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in the > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.  I can't > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the fifth day > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.> >> > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading of 10 > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since starting > > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet that I > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. Maybe > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any case, > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and see what > > happens.> >> > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested it and it > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called me to > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this group > > and changed my mind.> >> > > >> >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving > >> To: rhythmicliving > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do you > >> trust?> >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST> >>> >>> >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, > >> hatfield100@... writes:> >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I could even use > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood work, > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took oral P, > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap too, > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all my E. > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares. They > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the fat > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this for 2 > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL, are > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of us are > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN SKIN.....tops > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best. Keep up > >>> posted, thanks, )) > >>  > >>  > >>> >>> >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/> >>> >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not > >> intended as medical advice.**> >>> >>> >>> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 can i ask what are your T levels? mine went up last month to 66 for total...so i am kinda afraid to drop aldactone now, althout i'd like to... -bigbird3099 wrote: Why can't she use the E and not use the P? Find a gyn that will do an occasional sono to check for hyperplasia. That is what I do. I go see 2 Dr's and kind of do my own thing. I have finally had hair grow back on my head after stopping the aldactone and the P. Everytime I try to use the smallest amount of P I loose hair. I think it is a genetic predisposition to what available enzymes you have to convert one hormone to another. Just a guess.Karin > > > >> > > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and > > hands> > > > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in the> > > > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.  I > > can't> > > > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the > > fifth day> > > > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.> > > > >> > > > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading > > of 10> > > > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since > > starting> > > > > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet > > that I> > > > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. > > Maybe> > > > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any > > case,> > > > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and > > see what> > > > > happens.> > > > >> > > > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested > > it and it> > > > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called > > me to> > > > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this > > group> > > > > and changed my mind.> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> From: Nuimom@> > > > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving > > > > >> To: rhythmicliving > > > > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do > > you> > > > >> trust?> > > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,> > > > >> hatfield100@ writes:> > > > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day> > > > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I > > could even use> > > > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood > > work,> > > > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took > > oral P,> > > > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap > > too,> > > > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all > > my E.> > > > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares. > > They> > > > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the fat> > > > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this for > > 2> > > > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL, > > are> > > > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of > > us are> > > > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN > > SKIN.....tops> > > > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best. > > Keep up> > > > >>> posted, thanks, )) > > > > >> Â> > > > >> Â> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/> > > > >>> > > > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not> > > > >> intended as medical advice.**> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Oh, Karin! PCOS!!! i've just been diagnosed with this..well, not actually PCOS, but PCO...polycystic ovaries vs. the syndrome...doc said not to worry...but how can i not worry if i feel my recent rise in T is the affect of the little cysts producing extra T?! and looks like i am still not ovulating 9 weeks after quitting BCP...docs think i am on too high of E for my FSH to move...and everyone is telling me to start dropping off E...i was on 0.2mg of vivelle dot..now i am down to 0.183mg...hair is doing a lot, a lot better...so of course i am afraid of another shed...how did you deal with PCOS and all the extra T? how was getting pregnant? my doc says that if i won't start ovulating in a few months he'll put me on Clomid...but Vliet writes terrible things about Clomid..so i am not sure i want to go on it....also, as of last week, i stopped sleeping at night..nothing changed...just can't sleep..not depression, mild anxiety..but i constantly feel like i had 20 cups of coffee..can't relax?! could it be that my body is starting to produce some of it's own E and i am to supplement less?! sorry for all the questions..i was doing so much better..but with inability to sleep..i am a wreck at the moment -bigbird3099 wrote: I don't know too much in regard to hyperplasia personally. I have read some of the posts and some have tried vaginal P. If I did not get a period for about 2-3mos I would do that. The minute I take a little transdermal P I bleed in about 7 days. This month I got my period on day 29 with no P. I know that E will build the uterine lining and that P does something also in getting it ready for a fertilized egg. I think my ovaries are still somewhat active and my body will react differently from someone already in menopause. Sometimes I think that even bioidentical P is still somewhat different than what your own body would normally make or at the very least how your own body makes it and at what amounts would be a very big variable. I think the reason Vliet behaves differently in person is that she does buy into that standard of care thing and she may not have all the answers. Which is only human and I still appreciate all her books. Ultimately it is your decision on what happens to your body and maybe you may make some errors and do the wrong thing or you can do nothing and that may still be the wrong thing. Both my parents had cancer (breast and prostate) and they did not play around w/hormones. I feel this way that if I did nothing I would be going down that road too. Why is there so much breast cancer in women above 40 and why don't young girls with high E get it? I have a bit of the anti aging mentality I guess but it is only do to being handed Hashimoto's and PCOS and Celiac all diag in my 30's and 40's. I have had to be a little more proactive in my own health care. Still trying to figure it all out.Karin > > > > > >> > > > > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my > > feet and> > > > hands> > > > > > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels > > in the> > > > > > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas. > >  I> > > > can't> > > > > > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the> > > > fifth day> > > > > > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood > > reading> > > > of 10> > > > > > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since> > > > starting> > > > > > > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by > > Dr. Vliet> > > > that I> > > > > > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor > > disagrees. > > > > Maybe> > > > > > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In > > any> > > > case,> > > > > > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose > > and> > > > see what> > > > > > > happens.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor > > suggested> > > > it and it> > > > > > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy > > called> > > > me to> > > > > > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found > > this> > > > group> > > > > > > and changed my mind.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: Nuimom@> > > > > > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving > > > > > > >> To: rhythmicliving > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! > > Who do> > > > you> > > > > > >> trust?> > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard > > Time,> > > > > > >> hatfield100@ writes:> > > > > > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the > > 14th day> > > > > > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I > > found I> > > > could even use> > > > > > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my > > blood> > > > work,> > > > > > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I > > took> > > > oral P,> > > > > > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like > > crap> > > > too,> > > > > > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked > > all> > > > my E.> > > > > > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it > > compares.> > > > They> > > > > > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think > > the fat> > > > > > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru > > this for> > > > 2> > > > > > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we > > on RL,> > > > are> > > > > > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P > > build-up....some of> > > > us are> > > > > > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN> > > > SKIN.....tops> > > > > > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application > > best.> > > > Keep up> > > > > > >>> posted, thanks, )) > > > > > > >> Â> > > > > > >> Â> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and > > is not> > > > > > >> intended as medical advice.**> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 My T levels were always in the 30's with a free T at the normal high end. When I went off the BCP and just used P for a couple of months my T went to 99. After using the aldactone the T went back down and when stopping the aldactone the T went to 60. I will have my new results today and I can tell you that the T is down just by my hair growing back and the smaller amount of acne and the reduced body hair on my legs. I think the aldactone is only good for short term use and if you are using P and aldactone it probably means your body is not getting much E. Karin > > > > > > > > > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and > > > hands > > > > > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in the > > > > > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.  I > > > can't > > > > > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the > > > fifth day > > > > > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read. > > > > > > > > > > > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading > > > of 10 > > > > > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since > > > starting > > > > > > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet > > > that I > > > > > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. > > > Maybe > > > > > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any > > > case, > > > > > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and > > > see what > > > > > > happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested > > > it and it > > > > > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called > > > me to > > > > > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this > > > group > > > > > > and changed my mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: Nuimom@ > > > > > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving > > > > > >> To: rhythmicliving > > > > > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do > > > you > > > > > >> trust? > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > > >> hatfield100@ writes: > > > > > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day > > > > > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I > > > could even use > > > > > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood > > > work, > > > > > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took > > > oral P, > > > > > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap > > > too, > > > > > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all > > > my E. > > > > > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares. > > > They > > > > > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the fat > > > > > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this for > > > 2 > > > > > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL, > > > are > > > > > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of > > > us are > > > > > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN > > > SKIN.....tops > > > > > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best. > > > Keep up > > > > > >>> posted, thanks, )) > > > > > >>  > > > > > >>  > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/ > > > > > >> > > > > > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not > > > > > >> intended as medical advice.** > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Hi , Are you taking any P? It is true for someone younger taking too much E will mess up your feedback loop. But maybe you need to take enough E to feel better first and clear out any P or progestin from the pill from your system (that could take a while). My daughter has been off the pill for about 1 year and I don't think she is ovulating yet either she will see her Dr in March. Karin -- In rhythmicliving , Cremin wrote: > > Oh, Karin! PCOS!!! i've just been diagnosed with this..well, not actually PCOS, but PCO...polycystic ovaries vs. the syndrome...doc said not to worry...but how can i not worry if i feel my recent rise in T is the affect of the little cysts producing extra T?! and looks like i am still not ovulating 9 weeks after quitting BCP...docs think i am on too high of E for my FSH to move...and everyone is telling me to start dropping off E...i was on 0.2mg of vivelle dot..now i am down to 0.183mg...hair is doing a lot, a lot better...so of course i am afraid of another shed...how did you deal with PCOS and all the extra T? how was getting pregnant? my doc says that if i won't start ovulating in a few months he'll put me on Clomid...but Vliet writes terrible things about Clomid..so i am not sure i want to go on it....also, as of last week, i stopped sleeping at night..nothing changed...just can't sleep..not depression, mild anxiety..but i constantly feel like i had 20 cups of coffee..can't > relax?! could it be that my body is starting to produce some of it's own E and i am to supplement less?! > > sorry for all the questions..i was doing so much better..but with inability to sleep..i am a wreck at the moment > > - > > bigbird3099 wrote: > I don't know too much in regard to hyperplasia personally. I have read some of the posts > and some have tried vaginal P. If I did not get a period for about 2-3mos I would do that. > The minute I take a little transdermal P I bleed in about 7 days. This month I got my period > on day 29 with no P. I know that E will build the uterine lining and that P does something > also in getting it ready for a fertilized egg. I think my ovaries are still somewhat active and > my body will react differently from someone already in menopause. Sometimes I think that > even bioidentical P is still somewhat different than what your own body would normally > make or at the very least how your own body makes it and at what amounts would be a > very big variable. > I think the reason Vliet behaves differently in person is that she does buy into that > standard of care thing and she may not have all the answers. Which is only human and I > still appreciate all her books. Ultimately it is your decision on what happens to your body > and maybe you may make some errors and do the wrong thing or you can do nothing and > that may still be the wrong thing. Both my parents had cancer (breast and prostate) and > they did not play around w/hormones. I feel this way that if I did nothing I would be going > down that road too. Why is there so much breast cancer in women above 40 and why don't > young girls with high E get it? I have a bit of the anti aging mentality I guess but it is only > do to being handed Hashimoto's and PCOS and Celiac all diag in my 30's and 40's. I have > had to be a little more proactive in my own health care. > Still trying to figure it all out. > Karin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my > > > feet and > > > > > hands > > > > > > > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels > > > in the > > > > > > > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas. > > >  I > > > > > can't > > > > > > > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the > > > > > fifth day > > > > > > > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood > > > reading > > > > > of 10 > > > > > > > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since > > > > > starting > > > > > > > > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by > > > Dr. Vliet > > > > > that I > > > > > > > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor > > > disagrees. > > > > > Maybe > > > > > > > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In > > > any > > > > > case, > > > > > > > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose > > > and > > > > > see what > > > > > > > > happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor > > > suggested > > > > > it and it > > > > > > > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy > > > called > > > > > me to > > > > > > > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found > > > this > > > > > group > > > > > > > > and changed my mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: Nuimom@ > > > > > > > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving > > > > > > > >> To: rhythmicliving > > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! > > > Who do > > > > > you > > > > > > > >> trust? > > > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard > > > Time, > > > > > > > >> hatfield100@ writes: > > > > > > > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the > > > 14th day > > > > > > > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I > > > found I > > > > > could even use > > > > > > > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my > > > blood > > > > > work, > > > > > > > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I > > > took > > > > > oral P, > > > > > > > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like > > > crap > > > > > too, > > > > > > > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked > > > all > > > > > my E. > > > > > > > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it > > > compares. > > > > > They > > > > > > > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think > > > the fat > > > > > > > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru > > > this for > > > > > 2 > > > > > > > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we > > > on RL, > > > > > are > > > > > > > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P > > > build-up....some of > > > > > us are > > > > > > > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN > > > > > SKIN.....tops > > > > > > > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application > > > best. > > > > > Keep up > > > > > > > >>> posted, thanks, )) > > > > > > > >>  > > > > > > > >>  > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/ > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and > > > is not > > > > > > > >> intended as medical advice.** > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Karin, ok...i think i figured something out...after a week of night sweats...i experimented and tried to up my E a bit last night...i managed to fall asleep without the sleeping pills first time in a week...so i suspect my E was pretty low?! but why? i am using 2 0.1mg vivelle dot patches and sometimes a pump of estrogel....it used to be plenty when i just got off BCP...so do you think that after getting off BCP our bodies still maintain ethynil estradiol level of E for a few months which then drops? is this what's happening? I don't think i am ovulating yet...so do you think i should give myself enough E to sleep at night? or keep it down hoping that my body will start to generate it's own? i am just not very functional with no sleep?! like you i am not using any P currently...so i am kinda afraid to up it...but my guess i need to be at at least 2.5 vivelle dot patches at the moment... Hair wise..my hair is doing a lot, a lot better...although i am afraid that a week of low E wreck a havoc on my head...my last T was as yours..it was 66..but that was on P and aldactone..i am going to re-test E, T, P and TSH again this coming thursday.... Aldactone wise i am going to be off it soon...i'll be trying to get pregnant in a few months *so i really need to start ovulating by then*.. again, thanx for all the good advice..i feel our situations are similar..so i am learning a lot from you! -J.bigbird3099 wrote: My T levels were always in the 30's with a free T at the normal high end. When I went off the BCP and just used P for a couple of months my T went to 99. After using the aldactone the T went back down and when stopping the aldactone the T went to 60. I will have my new results today and I can tell you that the T is down just by my hair growing back and the smaller amount of acne and the reduced body hair on my legs. I think the aldactone is only good for short term use and if you are using P and aldactone it probably means your body is not getting much E.Karin> > > > >> > > > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and > > > hands> > > > > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in the> > > > > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.  I > > > can't> > > > > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the > > > fifth day> > > > > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.> > > > > >> > > > > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading > > > of 10> > > > > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since > > > starting> > > > > > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet > > > that I> > > > > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. > > > Maybe> > > > > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any > > > case,> > > > > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and > > > see what> > > > > > happens.> > > > > >> > > > > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested > > > it and it> > > > > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called > > > me to> > > > > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this > > > group> > > > > > and changed my mind.> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> From: Nuimom@> > > > > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving > > > > > >> To: rhythmicliving > > > > > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do > > > you> > > > > >> trust?> > > > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,> > > > > >> hatfield100@ writes:> > > > > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day> > > > > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I > > > could even use> > > > > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood > > > work,> > > > > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took > > > oral P,> > > > > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap > > > too,> > > > > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all > > > my E.> > > > > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares. > > > They> > > > > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the fat> > > > > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this for > > > 2> > > > > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL, > > > are> > > > > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of > > > us are> > > > > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN > > > SKIN.....tops> > > > > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best. > > > Keep up> > > > > >>> posted, thanks, )) > > > > > >> Â> > > > > >> Â> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/> > > > > >>> > > > > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not> > > > > >> intended as medical advice.**> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Karin, i am 2.5 weeks off P completely..for now i am going to drop it altogether...i think you're right, and my endometrical lining is pretty thin...but since i am taking quiet a bit of E i am afraid to go without P for long periods of time?!bigbird3099 wrote: Hi ,Are you taking any P? It is true for someone younger taking too much E will mess up your feedback loop. But maybe you need to take enough E to feel better first and clear out any P or progestin from the pill from your system (that could take a while). My daughter has been off the pill for about 1 year and I don't think she is ovulating yet either she will see her Dr in March.Karin-- In rhythmicliving , Cremin wrote:>> Oh, Karin! PCOS!!! i've just been diagnosed with this..well, not actually PCOS, but PCO...polycystic ovaries vs. the syndrome...doc said not to worry...but how can i not worry if i feel my recent rise in T is the affect of the little cysts producing extra T?! and looks like i am still not ovulating 9 weeks after quitting BCP...docs think i am on too high of E for my FSH to move...and everyone is telling me to start dropping off E...i was on 0.2mg of vivelle dot..now i am down to 0.183mg...hair is doing a lot, a lot better...so of course i am afraid of another shed...how did you deal with PCOS and all the extra T? how was getting pregnant? my doc says that if i won't start ovulating in a few months he'll put me on Clomid...but Vliet writes terrible things about Clomid..so i am not sure i want to go on it....also, as of last week, i stopped sleeping at night..nothing changed...just can't sleep..not depression, mild anxiety..but i constantly feel like i had 20 cups of coffee..can't> relax?! could it be that my body is starting to produce some of it's own E and i am to supplement less?!> > sorry for all the questions..i was doing so much better..but with inability to sleep..i am a wreck at the moment> > -> > bigbird3099 wrote:> I don't know too much in regard to hyperplasia personally. I have read some of the posts > and some have tried vaginal P. If I did not get a period for about 2-3mos I would do that. > The minute I take a little transdermal P I bleed in about 7 days. This month I got my period > on day 29 with no P. I know that E will build the uterine lining and that P does something > also in getting it ready for a fertilized egg. I think my ovaries are still somewhat active and > my body will react differently from someone already in menopause. Sometimes I think that > even bioidentical P is still somewhat different than what your own body would normally > make or at the very least how your own body makes it and at what amounts would be a > very big variable. > I think the reason Vliet behaves differently in person is that she does buy into that > standard of care thing and she may not have all the answers. Which is only human and I > still appreciate all her books. Ultimately it is your decision on what happens to your body > and maybe you may make some errors and do the wrong thing or you can do nothing and > that may still be the wrong thing. Both my parents had cancer (breast and prostate) and > they did not play around w/hormones. I feel this way that if I did nothing I would be going > down that road too. Why is there so much breast cancer in women above 40 and why don't > young girls with high E get it? I have a bit of the anti aging mentality I guess but it is only > do to being handed Hashimoto's and PCOS and Celiac all diag in my 30's and 40's. I have > had to be a little more proactive in my own health care. > Still trying to figure it all out.> Karin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my > > > feet and> > > > > hands> > > > > > > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels > > > in the> > > > > > > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas. > > >  I> > > > > can't> > > > > > > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the> > > > > fifth day> > > > > > > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood > > > reading> > > > > of 10> > > > > > > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since> > > > > starting> > > > > > > > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by > > > Dr. Vliet> > > > > that I> > > > > > > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor > > > disagrees. > > > > > Maybe> > > > > > > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In > > > any> > > > > case,> > > > > > > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose > > > and> > > > > see what> > > > > > > > happens.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor > > > suggested> > > > > it and it> > > > > > > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy > > > called> > > > > me to> > > > > > > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found > > > this> > > > > group> > > > > > > > and changed my mind.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: Nuimom@> > > > > > > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving > > > > > > > >> To: rhythmicliving > > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! > > > Who do> > > > > you> > > > > > > >> trust?> > > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard > > > Time,> > > > > > > >> hatfield100@ writes:> > > > > > > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the > > > 14th day> > > > > > > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I > > > found I> > > > > could even use> > > > > > > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my > > > blood> > > > > work,> > > > > > > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I > > > took> > > > > oral P,> > > > > > > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like > > > crap> > > > > too,> > > > > > > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked > > > all> > > > > my E.> > > > > > > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it > > > compares.> > > > > They> > > > > > > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think > > > the fat> > > > > > > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru > > > this for> > > > > 2> > > > > > > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we > > > on RL,> > > > > are> > > > > > > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P > > > build-up....some of> > > > > us are> > > > > > > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN> > > > > SKIN.....tops> > > > > > > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application > > > best.> > > > > Keep up> > > > > > > >>> posted, thanks, )) > > > > > > > >> Â> > > > > > > >> Â> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and > > > is not> > > > > > > >> intended as medical advice.**> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 I can't tell you what amount of E you should take but I can tell you what has worked and not worked w/me. As far as the aldactone if you plan on getting pregnant I would get off of that asap. It also maybe one of the reasons you are not ovulating. Aldactone does cause birth defects. You might find that off the aldactone you can take very little E and hopefully your body will kick in and do its thing. Karin > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was putting the progesterone cream on the tops of my feet and > > > > hands > > > > > > > so I don't think it would store in fat, unless it travels in the > > > > > > > bloodstream and gets dropped off in other fatty areas.  I > > > > can't > > > > > > > take the oral stuff because I get blinding headaches by the > > > > fifth day > > > > > > > - from digestive byproducts, I've read. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used progesterone cream in the past and got a blood reading > > > > of 10 > > > > > > > but that was over a year ago and I hadn't used any since > > > > starting > > > > > > > recently. I have had a hysterectomy and was told by Dr. Vliet > > > > that I > > > > > > > no longer needed progesterone but my new doctor disagrees. > > > > Maybe > > > > > > > different creams absorb differently, I don't know. In any > > > > case, > > > > > > > during the next 14 day round, I'm going to double my dose and > > > > see what > > > > > > > happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, I haven't done the Wiley protocol. My doctor suggested > > > > it and it > > > > > > > sounded good so I said okay but by the time the pharmacy called > > > > me to > > > > > > > get my address, I had done my internet research and found this > > > > group > > > > > > > and changed my mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: Nuimom@ > > > > > > >> Reply-To: rhythmicliving > > > > > > >> To: rhythmicliving > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: Re: Those doctors...ugh! Who do > > > > you > > > > > > >> trust? > > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:36:31 EST > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> In a message dated 2/20/2006 8:05:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > > > >> hatfield100@ writes: > > > > > > >>> almost non-existent and I had the blood drawn on the 14th day > > > > > > >>> of using 100 mg. progesterone cream daily.  I found I > > > > could even use > > > > > > >>> the WP dose of P, 900mgs, and still only get 3.3 in my blood > > > > work, > > > > > > >>> that was because it was storing in my fat!!!!!!!!!!!! I took > > > > oral P, > > > > > > >>> 100 mgs. and got 45 in my blood work..........felt like crap > > > > too, > > > > > > >>> dizzy and weird vision, heavy legs....not good, blocked all > > > > my E. > > > > > > >>> PLEASE let us know about your urine test and how it compares. > > > > They > > > > > > >>> do urine for steroid hormones in athletes, but I think the fat > > > > > > >>> storage issue for P will still be there. I went thru this for > > > > 2 > > > > > > >>> years during the WP phase of my life.....kindda why we on RL, > > > > are > > > > > > >>> giving a heads up about the dangers of P build-up....some of > > > > us are > > > > > > >>> still purging it.Be sure you keep your P on VERY THIN > > > > SKIN.....tops > > > > > > >>> of feet ect.....some are finding vaginal application best. > > > > Keep up > > > > > > >>> posted, thanks, )) > > > > > > >>  > > > > > > >>  > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/ > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not > > > > > > >> intended as medical advice.** > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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