Re: Never-ending pain

[Guest guest]

i went on some tangents, but this may be helpful...excuse me if i missed it! i prefer nowadays the more radical simple approach you just mentioned...

"noticing" is under appreciated i think. it's too simple...how can one even sell it?

one kind of mindfulness practice is simply to notice what you noticed...to really notice it! the observation you made is...my mood goes up and down all the time. it's the same for me, even when i seem to have a depressed day, it varies. often it varies with my activity. looking back, when i am mowing the lawn i never really feel depressed.

i think it is better or more simple just to notice...oh, my thinking says it's like this...but actually it's more like this. that's the end of it. that's a "method" in itself. to me, if one adds another method to that one it's like putting two contact lenses into one eye. it's not needed. you can do it for fun, but you already did it...defusion is complete with the noticing.

i think the ACT question is..."OK...and what's your actual experience?"

it's too simple for us though, we want some method, but it's often so obvious....for things like this, methods are the long way around maybe.

also, regarding what we may have missed growing up: the best emotional support, is to follow the valued directions...we can't fix our past by some act of will...but, we can do a kind of "re-parenting" now by reflecting on values and then doing what we said we would. this is offering one's self GUIDANCE. And, guidance is for the most part a re-parenting so to speak. this is very workable with small do-able-now things...like cleaning the kitchen counter. my favorite zen teacher said: just form the habit of doing small things with the whole body-mind...this is freedom even though we don't recognize it.

anyway, there are also fine coping examples all around us set by other people which we tend to ignore...your grandmother even.

jason

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 4:31:29 AMSubject: Never-ending pain

One of the worst aspects of my depression (and I'm sure many otherpeople's) is the feeling that the suffering one is going through atthe moment is going to go on and on indefinitely into the future. Evensevere pain may be bearable if you know it is going to end soon, butthe expectation of it never ending is crushing. Despite evidence tothe contrary (my mood goes up and down all the time) it's still apervasive thought, and my thought records are full of "It's hopeless!I'll never feel any better."In traditional CBT, I guess this would be seen as the result of apessimistic schema, perhaps learned as a result of emotional supportnot being available in early childhood. But I was wondering how itmight be seen though the lens of ACT. In some ways it has the feelingof a control strategy - by holding onto emotion we kind of "freeze" itand prevent it from flowing naturally. Or is the cognition that

itwill never end a defence mechanism against some deeper pain?I'd be really interested to hear other people's insights into this.Tom

[Guest guest]

Thanks . Simplicity is one of the major attractions ACT has for me, after the flurry of forms that comprises CBT! And your thoughts on re-parenting are very interesting. Off on another tangent - I was just listening to some Messiaen (my favourite composer, and ironically introduced to me by the guy who broke my heart) and reading about his life - how his unshakable Catholic faith sustained him through some awful experiences.

Well, it made me realise that as a child I had no trouble feeling my feelings - they were frequently painful, anxious and lonely, but I felt them. And life had a kind of luminous poignancy. But it seems when I reached my teens, and became an atheist, that I moved into a much smaller, duller world. My feelings were manageable because I made them smaller and duller too - I was afraid of big experiences. (And maybe the fact I started drinking has something to do with it.)

Now, I'm not about to start believing in God again. But could there be something about experience of the infinite, whether grounded in actual reality, that makes our scariest and biggest experiences so much more bearable?

In some ways, what I'm going through now is like welcoming my childhood self home. And it isn't easy, but boy have I missed him.Thanks for the opportunity to babble.

Tom

 

i went on some tangents, but this may be helpful...excuse me if i missed it! i prefer nowadays the more radical simple approach you just mentioned...

 

" noticing " is under appreciated i think. it's too simple...how can one even sell it?

 

one kind of mindfulness practice is simply to notice what you noticed...to really notice it! the observation you made is...my mood goes up and down all the time. it's the same for me, even when i seem to have a depressed day, it varies. often it varies with my activity. looking back, when i am mowing the lawn i never really feel depressed.

 

i think it is better or more simple just to notice...oh, my thinking says it's like this...but actually it's more like this. that's the end of it. that's a " method " in itself. to me, if one adds another method to that one it's like putting two contact lenses into one eye. it's not needed. you can do it for fun, but you already did it...defusion is complete with the noticing.

 

i think the ACT question is... " OK...and what's your actual experience? "

 

it's too simple for us though, we want some method, but it's often so obvious....for things like this, methods are the long way around maybe.

 

also, regarding what we may have missed growing up: the best emotional support, is to follow the valued directions...we can't fix our past by some act of will...but, we can do a kind of " re-parenting " now by reflecting on values and then doing what we said we would. this is offering one's self GUIDANCE. And, guidance is for the most part a re-parenting so to speak. this is very workable with small do-able-now things...like cleaning the kitchen counter. my favorite zen teacher said: just form the habit of doing small things with the whole body-mind...this is freedom even though we don't recognize it.

 

anyway, there are also fine coping examples all around us set by other people which we tend to ignore...your grandmother even.

 

jason

To: ACT_for_the_Public

Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 4:31:29 AMSubject: Never-ending pain

 

One of the worst aspects of my depression (and I'm sure many otherpeople's) is the feeling that the suffering one is going through atthe moment is going to go on and on indefinitely into the future. Even

severe pain may be bearable if you know it is going to end soon, butthe expectation of it never ending is crushing. Despite evidence tothe contrary (my mood goes up and down all the time) it's still apervasive thought, and my thought records are full of " It's hopeless!

I'll never feel any better. " In traditional CBT, I guess this would be seen as the result of apessimistic schema, perhaps learned as a result of emotional supportnot being available in early childhood. But I was wondering how it

might be seen though the lens of ACT. In some ways it has the feelingof a control strategy - by holding onto emotion we kind of " freeze " itand prevent it from flowing naturally. Or is the cognition that

itwill never end a defence mechanism against some deeper pain?I'd be really interested to hear other people's insights into this.Tom

[Guest guest]

wonderful!

mostly, i grew up in eastern spirituality...now i am studying Christian teachings. i see how can it can be helpful. studying Zen first made it easier on me i think...i got the spiritual/mystical side first, then the orthodox expressions made sense to me...as far as i know anyway! maybe i was spared as a child with no real Church-ing.

there is a great book for some called "Christian Meditation" by Finley. he studied wtih Merton in a monastery, then also studied Zen and Buddhism. He is a clinical psychologist as well. The teachings are very close to Zen meditation...it is supported as an early Catholic practice which was lost at some point. He writes about St. of the Cross who is a new hero of mine.

another one, i haven't read, but fits with ACT maybe is called "the Sacrament of the Present Moment"...Pierre de Caussade. everyone recommends this one.

the Christian Meditation book is entirely and thoroughly "Christian" though...it's not an attempt at a fusion of east and west. also, he has CDs on it via Sounds True.

hope this helps, jason

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 1:34:52 PMSubject: Re: Never-ending pain

Thanks . Simplicity is one of the major attractions ACT has for me, after the flurry of forms that comprises CBT! And your thoughts on re-parenting are very interesting.

Off on another tangent - I was just listening to some Messiaen (my favourite composer, and ironically introduced to me by the guy who broke my heart) and reading about his life - how his unshakable Catholic faith sustained him through some awful experiences.

Well, it made me realise that as a child I had no trouble feeling my feelings - they were frequently painful, anxious and lonely, but I felt them. And life had a kind of luminous poignancy. But it seems when I reached my teens, and became an atheist, that I moved into a much smaller, duller world. My feelings were manageable because I made them smaller and duller too - I was afraid of big experiences. (And maybe the fact I started drinking has something to do with it.)

Now, I'm not about to start believing in God again. But could there be something about experience of the infinite, whether grounded in actual reality, that makes our scariest and biggest experiences so much more bearable?

In some ways, what I'm going through now is like welcoming my childhood self home. And it isn't easy, but boy have I missed him.

Thanks for the opportunity to babble.

Tom

On 14 May 2010 19:07, Gosnell <jhgosnellyahoo (DOT) com> wrote:

i went on some tangents, but this may be helpful...excuse me if i missed it! i prefer nowadays the more radical simple approach you just mentioned...

"noticing" is under appreciated i think. it's too simple...how can one even sell it?

one kind of mindfulness practice is simply to notice what you noticed...to really notice it! the observation you made is...my mood goes up and down all the time. it's the same for me, even when i seem to have a depressed day, it varies. often it varies with my activity. looking back, when i am mowing the lawn i never really feel depressed.

i think it is better or more simple just to notice...oh, my thinking says it's like this...but actually it's more like this. that's the end of it. that's a "method" in itself. to me, if one adds another method to that one it's like putting two contact lenses into one eye. it's not needed. you can do it for fun, but you already did it...defusion is complete with the noticing.

i think the ACT question is..."OK...and what's your actual experience?"

it's too simple for us though, we want some method, but it's often so obvious....for things like this, methods are the long way around maybe.

also, regarding what we may have missed growing up: the best emotional support, is to follow the valued directions.. .we can't fix our past by some act of will...but, we can do a kind of "re-parenting" now by reflecting on values and then doing what we said we would. this is offering one's self GUIDANCE. And, guidance is for the most part a re-parenting so to speak. this is very workable with small do-able-now things...like cleaning the kitchen counter. my favorite zen teacher said: just form the habit of doing small things with the whole body-mind... this is freedom even though we don't recognize it.

anyway, there are also fine coping examples all around us set by other people which we tend to ignore...your grandmother even.

jason

From: Tom <banoffigmail (DOT) com>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Thu, May 13, 2010 4:31:29 AM Subject: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Never-ending pain

One of the worst aspects of my depression (and I'm sure many other

people's) is the feeling that the suffering one is going through atthe moment is going to go on and on indefinitely into the future. Evensevere pain may be bearable if you know it is going to end soon, butthe expectation of it never ending is crushing. Despite evidence tothe contrary (my mood goes up and down all the time) it's still apervasive thought, and my thought records are full of "It's hopeless!I'll never feel any better."In traditional CBT, I guess this would be seen as the result of apessimistic schema, perhaps learned as a result of emotional supportnot being available in early childhood. But I was wondering how itmight be seen though the lens of ACT. In some ways it has the feelingof a control strategy - by holding onto emotion we kind of "freeze" itand prevent it from flowing naturally. Or is the cognition that itwill never end a defence mechanism against some deeper

pain?I'd be really interested to hear other people's insights into this.Tom

[Guest guest]

Hi Lou,Thanks for the post.. I don't know anything about etiquette either, but this does seem to be a remarkably friendly and helpful group. I'm going to try to remember that 'hopelessness' is just another bit of content, but it's SO easy to fuse with it..

I don't actually have " Get Out Of Your Mind " at the moment (it's next on my ACT list) - I'm using " The Worry Trap " by Chad LeJeune, and am still at the stage of learning to notice (and record) my thoughts and reactions. Next week I'm going to start learning his defusion methods, and am hopeful this will give me another push in the right direction. I love the balloon metaphor someone mentioned. I think my anxious balloons will be red and my hopeless balloons black. =)

One mistake I keep making is to think that if I " let out " my pain then some time later I will " feel better " . Well, it hasn't been the case so far, and I am beginning to realise that this is just another pain-avoidance mind trick. *sigh* 

all the best,Tom

 

Hello Tom,

This is my first post so forgive me if I'm a bit green on the etiquette.

I'm sure there are many of us here who can relate to the state of `hopelessness' and understand the interruptions in the thinking processes when this emotion is occurring. I found that for some time I would forget that I had tools I could use to defuse from that thought, (I say the word `thought' lightly because for myself in that moment, it is more like a concept). This is however, fused thinking.

There are two exercises in 's book that I wrote on my hand to remind myself that I do have choices. The first is on page 75 and is entitled, " Labeling Your Thoughts " and the second, on page 76 is the " Floating Leaves on a Moving Stream " exercise. I have come to love these exercises because they have provided me with insight into my own emotional experiences, thereby reducing the intensity and a certain knowledge of choice. I can choose to hold onto those thoughts, the hopelessness, or I can choose to be mindful of them and let them slowly filter out of my thought processing as new thoughts enter. Not easy I know and I'm not quite proficient yet but practice is the key I guess.

Finally Tom, another very useful tool that I have been using to defuse from negative self-talk is the one where you write the word down and put it on the wall, in addition to the " Milk, Milk, Milk " exercise on pages 71-72 of " Get Out of Your Mind and into Your Life " . Great title huh :-)

Lou

>

> One of the worst aspects of my depression (and I'm sure many other

> people's) is the feeling that the suffering one is going through at

> the moment is going to go on and on indefinitely into the future. Even

> severe pain may be bearable if you know it is going to end soon, but

> the expectation of it never ending is crushing. Despite evidence to

> the contrary (my mood goes up and down all the time) it's still a

> pervasive thought, and my thought records are full of " It's hopeless!

> I'll never feel any better. "

>

> In traditional CBT, I guess this would be seen as the result of a

> pessimistic schema, perhaps learned as a result of emotional support

> not being available in early childhood. But I was wondering how it

> might be seen though the lens of ACT. In some ways it has the feeling

> of a control strategy - by holding onto emotion we kind of " freeze " it

> and prevent it from flowing naturally. Or is the cognition that it

> will never end a defence mechanism against some deeper pain?

>

> I'd be really interested to hear other people's insights into this.

>

> Tom

>

[Guest guest]

I have dealt with this kind of fear that I won't be able to handle it if the

pain never goes away in the physical context, too, in terms of chronic pain. The

key to learning how to deal with those thoughts for me has been to separate the

concepts of pain and suffering. As Pema Chodron says, " It isn't the things that

happen to us in our lives that cause us to suffer,it's how we relate to the

things that happen to us that causes us to suffer. "

The Worry Trap is an excellent book. I hope you're getting a lot out of it. Just

remember that it's a place to start and you're just beginning your journey.

You're not a project who needs to be fixed. Your a person who is learning you're

okay and not broken. It takes some time to process that.

I just joined today and I'm thrilled to see how kind and welcoming everyone here

is!

>

> One of the worst aspects of my depression (and I'm sure many other

> people's) is the feeling that the suffering one is going through at

> the moment is going to go on and on indefinitely into the future. Even

> severe pain may be bearable if you know it is going to end soon, but

> the expectation of it never ending is crushing. Despite evidence to

> the contrary (my mood goes up and down all the time) it's still a

> pervasive thought, and my thought records are full of " It's hopeless!

> I'll never feel any better. "

>

> In traditional CBT, I guess this would be seen as the result of a

> pessimistic schema, perhaps learned as a result of emotional support

> not being available in early childhood. But I was wondering how it

> might be seen though the lens of ACT. In some ways it has the feeling

> of a control strategy - by holding onto emotion we kind of " freeze " it

> and prevent it from flowing naturally. Or is the cognition that it

> will never end a defence mechanism against some deeper pain?

>

> I'd be really interested to hear other people's insights into this.

>

> Tom

>

[Guest guest]

Mm, but what about the one on compulsive hoarding when that comes out<grin>?

S.

Subject: Re: Never-ending painTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Saturday, May 22, 2010, 3:57 PM

I have just orderd it, and while I was at I saw another excellent book called The Mindful Couple, which I then read it on google books and it looked great. Right, these really must be the last ACT books that I ever buy. But Russ harris has a new one coming out called Beyond Self Esteem which might be very appropriate for too. Okay! Dr Russ's new book really must be the last ACT book I ever buy.

The Mindful Couple:

http://books. google.co. uk/books? id=EED0QNgvEp4C & printsec=frontcover & dq=The+Mindful+ Couple:+How+ Acceptance+ and+Mindfulness+ Can+Lead+ You+to+the+ Love+You+ Want & source=bl & ots=ZpXdlKb1c4 & sig=eDhd6dNlU5DTvz4 tDRvJovFg3qw & hl=en & ei=8vz3S6rWCIH20wTJ itTpBw & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=1 & ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA# v=onepage & q & f=false

Kaivey

> > > > >> > > > > I'm still confused about the ACT term "guided by experience."> > > > > > > > Bill,> > > > >

> > > I can't give you ACT scripture, nor am I Steve, but I have the> > > > impression that the phrase relates to a behavioral view of how> > > > being present helps us to learn from actual circumstance, rather> > > > than sticking to overly rigid rules.> > > > > > > > More specifically, any organism can learn from its environment over> > > > time - cats, dogs, bats, spiders, etc. However, since humans are> > > > word-using creatures, we are guided not only by what we learn> > > > through direct experience, but by the verbal rules we also learn.> > > > > > > > Rules are immensely useful - but the more they control our> > > > behavior, the less likely we are to be sensitive to relatively> > > > small nuances or changes in our environment. This may be

because> > > > rules tend to be relatively crude in what they specify as a> > > > response to a given stimulus. In other words, if an environment> > > > contains distinctions too fine-grained for a rule to account for,> > > > the rule may work against our noticing them. And we can't learn> > > > from what we haven't noticed.> > > > > > > > The opposite situation is when we defuse from overly rigid> > > > rule-following. If we are able to selectively let go of rules as> > > > seems appropriate, then we have a better chance of picking up on> > > > relatively subtle cues around us & learning from them.> > > > > > > > Thus the phrase, "guided by experience." There is more to it than> > > > that, I imagine, but that seems to be part of it. >

> > > > > > > So - let us say that we find ourselves continually reviewing our> > > > day to see if we might have offended someone, then deciding that> > > > possibly we did, and then going back and apologizing to these> > > > persons & hearing from them that (a) "I don't remember any such> > > > incident," and ( "You worry too much." I am not a behaviorist,> > > > but when this sort of thing happens to me and I become aware of it,> > > > I tend to suspect I might be following a rule pretty closely.> > > > > > > > Sometimes this isn't a problem, e.g. I have a rule to be polite to> > > > grocery store clerks and other strangers, and that rule seems to> > > > work pretty well as long as I don't hold onto it too rigidly - e.g.> > > > so rigidly that I

don't pause to notice someone's mood or how they> > > > are behaving to me, e.g. maybe that weird thing they just said is> > > > really meant as a joke and a smile back would be a better response> > > > than politeness. Other times my rules don't seem to work too well> > > > at all and I get the impression I'd be better off letting go of> > > > them.> > > > > > > > There is a lot written about this sort of thing in the ACT> > > > literature. Here is something that touches on it, from > > > > 's book "Mindfulness for Two":> > > > > > > > "From a behavioral perspective, the value of being in contact with> > > > the present moment is easy to see. If you are to learn and be> > > > shaped by interactions with the environment, you need to be

there> > > > to interact with it. This doesn't merely mean that you must be> > > > there physically. You need to be psychologically present.> > > > > > > > "In nonclinical terms, sitting in the classroom daydreaming and> > > > looking at the clouds will not help you to learn algebra. To learn> > > > algebra, you must interact with formulae, numbers, and symbols of> > > > various sorts. Similarly, to interact effectively with the complex> > > > world around us - career, family, interpersonal relations, personal> > > > care - we must be teachable. The world can't and won't teach us> > > > what works unless we learn to pay attention. The capacity to bring> > > > attention to bear in a deliberate, focused, yet flexible way is> > > > thought to enhance learning of all

sorts. The good news is that> > > > flexible, focused attending is behavior. It can be learned and> > > > enhanced through practice. The shaping of this capacity and the> > > > fostering of increased contact with the present moment is central> > > > to ACT."> > > > > > > > -Randy> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > > > > > > > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsych ology.org> > > > > > > > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_ Public, you may > > > > unsubscribe by sending an email to > > > > ACT_for_the_ Public-unsubscri be@! Groups Links> > > > > > > > > > > >> >

>> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > > > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsych ology.org> > > > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_ Public, you may > > unsubscribe by sending an email to > > ACT_for_the_ Public-unsubscri be@...! Groups Links> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

i didn't read the whole thread...sorry if i repeat: what the mind says is true and your actual experience are often very different!

jason

To: ACT_for_the_Public <act_for_the_public >Sent: Fri, May 21, 2010 9:17:03 PMSubject: RE: Re: Never-ending pain

Tom - Thank you for the reference to the film clip. I'm still confused about the ACT term "guided by experience. " Bill> To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com> From: experiential2010@ yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 22:43:14 +0000> Subject: Fw: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: Never-ending pain> > Hello Bill,> > I was browsing the Contextual Behavioural Science site when I came across this video. I couldn't help but to take notes. The information lends itself to another way of thinking about 'experience' and how that is associated to the notion of happiness. (Not forgetting the memory side of course).> > http://www.ted. com/talks/ daniel_kahneman_ the_riddle_ of_experience_ vs_memory. html> > I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. (I watched it 3 times).> >

Lou> > > > > > >> > > > One of the worst aspects of my depression (and I'm sure many other> > > > people's) is the feeling that the suffering one is going through at> > > > the moment is going to go on and on indefinitely into the future. Even> > > > severe pain may be bearable if you know it is going to end soon, but> > > > the expectation of it never ending is crushing. Despite evidence

to> > > > the contrary (my mood goes up and down all the time) it's still a> > > > pervasive thought, and my thought records are full of "It's hopeless!> > > > I'll never feel any better."> > > > > > > > In traditional CBT, I guess this would be seen as the result of a> > > > pessimistic schema, perhaps learned as a result of emotional support> > > > not being available in early childhood. But I was wondering how it> > > > might be seen though the lens of ACT. In some ways it has the feeling> > > > of a control strategy - by holding onto emotion we kind of "freeze" it> > > > and prevent it from flowing naturally. Or is the cognition that it> > > > will never end a defence mechanism against some deeper pain?> > > > > > > > I'd be really interested to

hear other people's insights into this.> > > > > > > > Tom> > > >> > >> >> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsych ology.org> > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_ Public, you may > unsubscribe by sending an email to > ACT_for_the_ Public-unsubscri beyahoogroups (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

Hi Kaivey,

I’m not sure where you got that idea about my next book. I do have

another one coming out in September, but it is called ‘The Confidence Gap’ – on

the use of ACT for confidence and peak performance. A while back I did discuss with

one publishing house (New Harbinger) the possibility of doing a book by the title

of ‘Beyond Self Esteem’, but to the best of my knowledge that was never public

knowledge; I’m curious as to how you heard about it?

All the best,

Cheers,

Russ

www.actmadesimple.com

www.act-with-love.com

www.thehappinesstrap.com

www.actmindfully.com.au

From: ACT_for_the_Public

[mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of Kaivey

Sent: Saturday, 22 May 2010 11:58 PM

To: ACT_for_the_Public

Subject: Re: Never-ending pain

I have just orderd it, and while I was at I saw another excellent book

called The Mindful Couple, which I then read it on google books and it looked

great. Right, these really must be the last ACT books that I ever

buy. But Russ harris has a new one coming out called Beyond Self Esteem

which might be very appropriate for too. Okay! Dr Russ's new book really

must be the last ACT book I ever buy.

The Mindful Couple:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=EED0QNgvEp4C & printsec=frontcover & dq=The+Mindful+Couple:+How+Acceptance+and+Mindfulness+Can+Lead+You+to+the+Love+You+Want & source=bl & ots=ZpXdlKb1c4 & sig=eDhd6dNlU5DTvz4tDRvJovFg3qw & hl=en & ei=8vz3S6rWCIH20wTJitTpBw & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=1 & ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage & q & f=false

Kaivey

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm still confused about the ACT term " guided by

experience. "

> > > >

> > > > Bill,

> > > >

> > > > I can't give you ACT scripture, nor am I Steve, but I have

the

> > > > impression that the phrase relates to a behavioral view of

how

> > > > being present helps us to learn from actual circumstance,

rather

> > > > than sticking to overly rigid rules.

> > > >

> > > > More specifically, any organism can learn from its

environment over

> > > > time - cats, dogs, bats, spiders, etc. However, since

humans are

> > > > word-using creatures, we are guided not only by what we

learn

> > > > through direct experience, but by the verbal rules we also

learn.

> > > >

> > > > Rules are immensely useful - but the more they control our

> > > > behavior, the less likely we are to be sensitive to

relatively

> > > > small nuances or changes in our environment. This may be

because

> > > > rules tend to be relatively crude in what they specify as a

> > > > response to a given stimulus. In other words, if an

environment

> > ; > > contains distinctions too fine-grained for a rule to

account for,

> > > > the rule may work against our noticing them. And we can't

learn

> > > > from what we haven't noticed.

> > > >

> > > > The opposite situation is when we defuse from overly rigid

> > > > rule-following. If we are able to selectively let go of

rules as

> > > > seems appropriate, then we have a better chance of picking

up on

> > > > relatively subtle cues around us & learning from them.

> > > >

> > > > Thus the phrase, " guided by experience. " There is

more to it than

> > > > that, I imagine, but that seems to be part of it.

> > > >

> > > > So - let us say that we find ourselves continually

reviewing our

> > > > day to see if we might have offended someone, then deciding

that

> > > > possibly we did, and then going back and apologizing to

these

> > > > persons & hearing from them that (a) " I don't

remember any such

> > > > incident, " and ( " You worry too much. " I

am not a behaviorist,

> > > > but when this sort of thing happens to me and I become

aware of it,

> > > > I tend to suspect I might be following a rule pretty

closely.

> > > >

> > > > Sometimes this isn't a problem, e.g. I have a rule to be

polite to

> > > > grocery store clerks and other strangers, and that rule

seems to

> > > > work pretty well as long as I don't hold onto it too

rigidly - e.g.

> > > > so rigidly that I don't pause to notice someone's mood or

how they

> > > > are behaving to me, e.g. maybe that weird thing they just

said is

> > > > really meant as a joke and a smile back would be a better

response

> > > > than politeness. Other times my rules don't seem to w ork

too well

> > > > at all and I get the impression I'd be better off letting

go of

> > > > them.

> > > >

> > > > There is a lot written about this sort of thing in the ACT

> > > > literature. Here is something that touches on it, from

> > > > 's book " Mindfulness for Two " :

> > > >

> > > > " From a behavioral perspective, the value of being in

contact with

> > > > the present moment is easy to see. If you are to learn and

be

> > > > shaped by interactions with the environment, you need to be

there

> > > > to interact with it. This doesn't merely mean that you must

be

> > > > there physically. You need to be psychologically present.

> > > >

> > > > " In nonclinical terms, sitting in the classroom

daydreaming and

> > > > looking at the clouds will not help you to learn algebra.

To learn

> > > > algebra, you must interact with formulae, numbers, and

symbols of

> > > > various sorts. Similarly, to interact effectively with the

complex

> > > > world around us - career, family, interpersonal relations,

personal

> > > > care - we must be teachable. The world can't and won't

teach us

> > > > what works unless we learn to pay attention. The capacity

to bring

> > > > attention to bear in a deliberate, focused, yet flexible

way is

> > > > thought to enhance learning of all sorts. The good news is

that

> > > > flexible, focused attending is behavior. It can be learned

and

> > > > enhanced through practice. The shaping of this capacity and

the

> > > > fostering of increased contact with the present moment is

central

> > > > to ACT. "

> > > >

> > > > -Randy

> > > >

> > > & gt;

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > For other ACT materials and list serves see

www.contextualpsychology.org

> > > >

> > > > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may

> > > > unsubscribe by sending an email to

> > > > ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@! Groups Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.org

> >

> > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may

> > unsubscribe by sending an email to

> > ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

>