Re: Advice on NC, letters, reclaiming my life?

June 15, 2006

I really shouldn't give advice to you, as it is fairly recently I

realized my sister's 20 years of manipulating my sibs against me is

due to BPD. However, nothing that I have said or done ( and like

you, I tried to be kind, caring, forgiving, etc.)has helped me

regain my relationship with anyone of my sibs. There is an

impenetrable jungle of emotions between us now. Everyone I have

asked about how to turn my nonBP sibs around, tells me " don't try

it, it's not going to happen " . In my head I agree...it's my heart

that is lagging behind.

Kitty

>

> Guys, I so badly need some good advice from someone who has been

there!

>

> I try so hard to be a nice person, a forgiving person, and so on.

>

> The fact remains though that in so many ways, even when she's on

> her " good behavior " my mother feels toxic to me.

>

> This is because, I think, of all the abuse when I was little that

I've

> never been able to confront her over or deal with. So if we are

> trying to spend a nice afternoon together, and then I try on a

shirt

> that I like and she says " that shirt makes your skin look so

sallow. "

> Well, it just hurts because all those feelings of being told I was

> ugly and looked like a drowned rat as a child come rushing back.

>

> My husband and I talked it over and he really pushed me to do

limited

> contact--just to tell her " you can't call me at work, and I'll

only

> talk to you once a week from home, so stop calling me every single

day

> and night 5 or 6 times. " For me, my heart feels like I just want

her

> gone completely from my life and I want no contact. I know that

it

> would be strong and responsible of me to set some limits and

actually

> stand up for myself. But I feel exhausted with it. I feel like

I've

> been working very hard at taking all this stuff and protecting

myself,

> and I don't really want to work so hard at setting limits and

> enforcing them. I want to work hard at my job and at building a

life

> with my husband. I've spent so much of my life and energy on

dealing

> with and caring for this crazy woman, you know.

>

> So, my No Contact letter is pretty nasty. I did try to keep an

even

> tone and said " I still love you, and I don't think you're a bad

> person, but I cannot deal with your emotional problems any more. "

But

> I also bring up the childhood abuse and state that I'm aware she's

> been telling unpleasant stories about me to friends and neighbors.

>

> Well, I know because once when I was younger I tried to confont

her

> and asked (in a nice tone of voice) " why did you keep telling me I

was

> ugly when I was little. I wasn't ugly and even if you didn't like

how

> I looked that just hurt me so much. It still hurts. " Of course

she

> raged and denied ever having said anything like that, denied she

was

> even capable of it, and turned it on me as me abusing her by

accusing

> her of abusing me. So I do know how she will probably react to my

> letter.

>

> I am prepared to lose the rest of my family as she will probably

turn

> every relative against me as she plays up what a victim she is.

> Because I've heard it before I know she will say I've always been

> crazy and abusive and I have problems. She might even claim that

I'm

> a sexual deviant like she has accused other people.

>

> Still, my husband keeps pushing me to just set limits and be

strong

> for once.

>

June 15, 2006

Neva, I was ther about a year ago when I first really started to lay

down boundaries with my nada. It took A LOT of work and energy,

caused some family crises and was just exhausting. I was lucky to

have time off surounding every visit to my nada and FOO and was also

lucky to only see them when I choose.

The boundaries I put down were worth it because they've left me with

much more space for myself in terms of how much contact and what kinds

of interactions I'm willing to have with my nada. And because my nada

knows that the consequences to her nasty behavior are me leaving the

scene and refusing to engage, she's toned things way down. She can't

rage at me when I'm gone! Hah!--so, boundaries have worked for me, but

were a lot of work. And, frankly, I think I'll have to always be

vigilant about the boundaries and perhaps be willing to add new ones

if I need to. Which is why my husband and I are rare contact with my

family. One call a week and a couple of short, organized visits a

year--with an escape plan--are all we can manage as we don't feel like

setting boundaries all the time.

It sounds like, for now, you might be too exhausted to feel like

taking on the hard work of putting down boundaries and there is

NOTHING wrong with that. One thing that has worked for me has been to

limit contact w/o directly explaining that I am doing it--to go AWOL

for a while and just gather my strenghth so I can deal with Nada again.

I will not answer the pone until I know who it is, and when it's nada,

I can choose to call her back or not. I can also choose not to visit

or make my weekly phone call. She might get annoyed, but she can't

contact me, so I don't care. I've gotten up to two weeks totally

nada-free this way and without any explanation or attempt to get her

to face childhood abuses. There might be similar things you can do to

get a break for yourself in the short term while you get stronger

without fighting some battle over NC or RC. Something to consider.

You mentioned her calling while you are at work. If I were you, I'd

seek out ways to get this to stop ASAP. It's sounds very draining.

Perhaps you can find a way to screen your calls and not pick up if

it's her. That would be the easiest way. If that's not possible, you

could always just have a one-liner ready for her when she calls at

work and then hang up. . .but she might escalate her behavior at first

when you do this, which is what makes setting boundaries so much work.

Well, good luck with this. But I think my point in this long and

rambling post is that you do not have to do everything at once, that

it is perfectly acceptable to work first on yourself and your life.

It is important, however, to find ways to carve out nada-free space

for yourself to do this, but even this does not mean figuring out all

the boundaries at once and putting them down right away.

Trish

>

> Guys, I so badly need some good advice from someone who has been there!

>

> I try so hard to be a nice person, a forgiving person, and so on.

>

> The fact remains though that in so many ways, even when she's on

> her " good behavior " my mother feels toxic to me.

>

> This is because, I think, of all the abuse when I was little that I've

> never been able to confront her over or deal with. So if we are

> trying to spend a nice afternoon together, and then I try on a shirt

> that I like and she says " that shirt makes your skin look so sallow. "

> Well, it just hurts because all those feelings of being told I was

> ugly and looked like a drowned rat as a child come rushing back.

>

> My husband and I talked it over and he really pushed me to do limited

> contact--just to tell her " you can't call me at work, and I'll only

> talk to you once a week from home, so stop calling me every single day

> and night 5 or 6 times. " For me, my heart feels like I just want her

> gone completely from my life and I want no contact. I know that it

> would be strong and responsible of me to set some limits and actually

> stand up for myself. But I feel exhausted with it. I feel like I've

> been working very hard at taking all this stuff and protecting myself,

> and I don't really want to work so hard at setting limits and

> enforcing them. I want to work hard at my job and at building a life

> with my husband. I've spent so much of my life and energy on dealing

> with and caring for this crazy woman, you know.

>

> So, my No Contact letter is pretty nasty. I did try to keep an even

> tone and said " I still love you, and I don't think you're a bad

> person, but I cannot deal with your emotional problems any more. " But

> I also bring up the childhood abuse and state that I'm aware she's

> been telling unpleasant stories about me to friends and neighbors.

>

> Well, I know because once when I was younger I tried to confont her

> and asked (in a nice tone of voice) " why did you keep telling me I was

> ugly when I was little. I wasn't ugly and even if you didn't like how

> I looked that just hurt me so much. It still hurts. " Of course she

> raged and denied ever having said anything like that, denied she was

> even capable of it, and turned it on me as me abusing her by accusing

> her of abusing me. So I do know how she will probably react to my

> letter.

>

> I am prepared to lose the rest of my family as she will probably turn

> every relative against me as she plays up what a victim she is.

> Because I've heard it before I know she will say I've always been

> crazy and abusive and I have problems. She might even claim that I'm

> a sexual deviant like she has accused other people.

>

> Still, my husband keeps pushing me to just set limits and be strong

> for once.

>

June 15, 2006

Neva,

I can't promise you good, rock solid advice...but I can offer you some words

from someone who has been there.

First I want to address the nice person comment...sweetie...you ARE a nice

person..you are a nice person, a forgiving person, a loving person, a

compassionate person, an empathetic person, a reasonable person, but most

importantly...you ARE a person. A human being..capable of love,

intelligence, reasoning....but to sustain life we need love and support just

as much as we need air, food, and water. Make no mistake about it...even

when your nada is on her very BEST behavior...she is incapable of love for

someone else BEFORE her own needs.

I think the one comment that seemed to always hold me back from heading down

the right path, is my parents or therapists reminding me that I am not

perfect either. That one phrase would always send me spiraling...second

guessing everything that was in my head telling me what was right. Then one

day...in a situation too horrible to even re-count here...someone responded

to me saying that by the rebuttal... " what's that got to do with anything? "

That was a light bulb moment for me...and over the years I came to the

realization that planning out and executing a PERFECT plan was a flea that I

had gotten from my nada. What's my point?? It's that I think you are

over-thinking this...you are second guessing your gut feeling...and that is

a very typical flea that we all have.

I think your no contact letter will end up being perfect...and you are

prepared for the fall-out. Which means you are already WAY ahead of most of

it. That preperation and acceptance will get you through all of this. You

seem to be a tad concerned with the tone being nasty ...with nada's like

ours, nasty is the only thing that gets through....they don't understand

anything else...so in order to be clear we HAVE to be nasty...think of nasty

as a foreign language to them....if you go to France, you don't feel guilty

because they don't understand English do you?? Of course not...So don't feel

bad about that...nasty is the only language they speak and understand....so

don't lose sleep over that....that seed is one that SHE has sown

(Additionally...rest assured they never lost a lick of sleep over being

nasty and abusive to us..and we were CHILDREN)

Those that have heard from me know that I stand on pretty much 2 things...

listening to your heart...and holding on to anger. Most therapists feel

that it is unhealthy to hold on to anger...you need to let it go...you need

to forgive. I'm telling you...in my experience I don't think that it true

(As long as you know how to keep it in check) It's ok to be angry. Anger

is an emotion, and who is to say what emotions are appropriate or not

appropriate to feel? It's ok to stand up for yourself...sometimes the land

of angry is all you have to stand on and that anger gives you the strength

you need to get through the situations we are put in. Most people see anger

hurt and resentment as a flea. I feel like I EARNED that anger. I draw my

courage, strength and ability to be confrontational from my anger. As long

as you are angry, you are remembering. One of the most common traits in a

nada is having that amnesia over their bad behavior. Your memory is their

kryptonite. I'm sure, somewhere in your head the question is looming " what

if I did the wrong thing,,,or did it the wrong way? " ...well...if you find

yourself thinking that, I want you to replace it with... " what if you DIDN'T

do the wrong thing, and you did it perfectly? " More often than not, you

doing the RIGHT thing is the case. Will there be fall-out from it???

probably....Will there be situations you haven't counted on having to deal

with?? probably....Can you handle anything and everything that may happen..

DEFINATLY!! Do you deserve the very best that life has to offer...most

certainly!!

Don't worry about the family thing....if they believe her and support her

over you, then you will be healthier to cut the entire cancer out. The ones

worth keeping in touch with will see right through her, and probably see

alot more than you know but just don't speak about it because they have the

same fears and concerns that you do. I know I had the same fear when I had

to go NC with my mother-in-law...and I was VERY, VERY pleasantly surprised

when members of her family called ME and gave me a job well done....saying

they wish they had the courage to do what I did. I was actually very, very

shocked at how many people told her that they wanted to stay out of any

drama " between us. <on a side note...be very wary of these people...BPD's

are master manipulators and can EASILY draw people in for use in her

agendas>

As far as your husband is concerned...I don't think he means you any harm..

he is trying to be a negotiator here. BPD's are like leeches...and they

aren't picky about their prey. Your husband's encouragement as a negotiator

working on a compromise is most likely just the consequences of her getting

to HIM on some level. You know what that means? It means that now you have

to protect the both of you before she gets her fangs any deeper into him.

You are fighting for both of you now. He loves you and wants the best for

you, but words can't make him thoroughly understand what you have gone

through. I've often compared what we have gone through to people who have

had migraines....unless you have actually HAD a migraine, you can't fathom

the pain. Remember...BPD's are chameleons...most of the time other people

think they are FABULOUS people. The fact that YOU are a fabulous person

probably " waters down " the true picture of her to him as well. I know it

took my husband almost 7 years to get it. I seemed so laid back...he

thought for sure I had to have just embellished everything....after all, how

can 2 horrible people raise a child who is totally normal? After hundreds

of hours of therapy with me, and getting to know them over the years he

began to see it....now he is reading the books I have purchased about it and

it is even MORE clear to him. Maybe that would help with your hubby? Stay

the course sweetie....know that their is an army of KO's here for you for

support. Listen to that little voice that is guiding you, and stay strong.

Have faith in YOU....we do!

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

-- Advice on NC, letters, reclaiming my life?

Guys, I so badly need some good advice from someone who has been there!

I try so hard to be a nice person, a forgiving person, and so on.

The fact remains though that in so many ways, even when she's on

her " good behavior " my mother feels toxic to me.

This is because, I think, of all the abuse when I was little that I've

never been able to confront her over or deal with. So if we are

trying to spend a nice afternoon together, and then I try on a shirt

that I like and she says " that shirt makes your skin look so sallow. "

Well, it just hurts because all those feelings of being told I was

ugly and looked like a drowned rat as a child come rushing back.

My husband and I talked it over and he really pushed me to do limited

contact--just to tell her " you can't call me at work, and I'll only

talk to you once a week from home, so stop calling me every single day

and night 5 or 6 times. " For me, my heart feels like I just want her

gone completely from my life and I want no contact. I know that it

would be strong and responsible of me to set some limits and actually

stand up for myself. But I feel exhausted with it. I feel like I've

been working very hard at taking all this stuff and protecting myself,

and I don't really want to work so hard at setting limits and

enforcing them. I want to work hard at my job and at building a life

with my husband. I've spent so much of my life and energy on dealing

with and caring for this crazy woman, you know.

So, my No Contact letter is pretty nasty. I did try to keep an even

tone and said " I still love you, and I don't think you're a bad

person, but I cannot deal with your emotional problems any more. " But

I also bring up the childhood abuse and state that I'm aware she's

been telling unpleasant stories about me to friends and neighbors.

Well, I know because once when I was younger I tried to confont her

and asked (in a nice tone of voice) " why did you keep telling me I was

ugly when I was little. I wasn't ugly and even if you didn't like how

I looked that just hurt me so much. It still hurts. " Of course she

raged and denied ever having said anything like that, denied she was

even capable of it, and turned it on me as me abusing her by accusing

her of abusing me. So I do know how she will probably react to my

letter.

I am prepared to lose the rest of my family as she will probably turn

every relative against me as she plays up what a victim she is.

Because I've heard it before I know she will say I've always been

crazy and abusive and I have problems. She might even claim that I'm

a sexual deviant like she has accused other people.

Still, my husband keeps pushing me to just set limits and be strong

for once.

June 15, 2006

Honey I am so sorry. You know you are beautiful. You have a great

husband who loves and supports you cling to him and what he says. I

am sure he knows what is best for you and loves you very much. If he

sees she is hurting you and thinks you need to set boundaries you

probly do. Just take his advice and he will be there to support you

as will we. And if she says you look sallow its just probly because

you look great! My nada used to always tell me " purple drains you " .

Now when I wear purple I get complaments. I am sure she is jealous.

Sometimes it when they fake nice that they cut the deepest. You know

they are a toxic snake ready snap at any moment and you dont even

know what hit you until its to late. You need to protect yourself

first. If you dont it could hurt your healthy relationships. Good of

you to mentaly prepair yourself that you may lose all that family if

you set a limit with her but you just need to know that is thier

choice. I lost all that side of my family to. I never did or said

anything to them. I was even kind but they chose to be angry listen

to my nada only and become angry take side whatever. Their choice. I

still have a few family members who love me (my dads side) But it

was worth it. I also had to make all new friends she lied about me

to.

My husband also lost a firend in this to. His firend was from Europe

and they had been best friends since they were in kindergarten but

my mom poisened his mind against us as well. He stood up in our

wedding and everything. He came to America for a visit shortly after

the fight & stayed with my mom! His dad was so scared by his

behavior when he returned home that he went to my father-in-law

crying that his son must have joined a cult. Ya my mom has a strange

power over people. Now to this day he makes a visit to her 1 or 2

times a year and stays at least 2 months each time. i just dont

understand what draws people to them but in times of fights it seems

they choose the peorson with bpd. We just have to know that. I wish

you luck Lizzy

>

> Guys, I so badly need some good advice from someone who has been

there!

>

> I try so hard to be a nice person, a forgiving person, and so on.

>

> The fact remains though that in so many ways, even when she's on

> her " good behavior " my mother feels toxic to me.

>

> This is because, I think, of all the abuse when I was little that

I've

> never been able to confront her over or deal with. So if we are

> trying to spend a nice afternoon together, and then I try on a

shirt

> that I like and she says " that shirt makes your skin look so

sallow. "

> Well, it just hurts because all those feelings of being told I was

> ugly and looked like a drowned rat as a child come rushing back.

>

> My husband and I talked it over and he really pushed me to do

limited

> contact--just to tell her " you can't call me at work, and I'll

only

> talk to you once a week from home, so stop calling me every single

day

> and night 5 or 6 times. " For me, my heart feels like I just want

her

> gone completely from my life and I want no contact. I know that

it

> would be strong and responsible of me to set some limits and

actually

> stand up for myself. But I feel exhausted with it. I feel like

I've

> been working very hard at taking all this stuff and protecting

myself,

> and I don't really want to work so hard at setting limits and

> enforcing them. I want to work hard at my job and at building a

life

> with my husband. I've spent so much of my life and energy on

dealing

> with and caring for this crazy woman, you know.

>

> So, my No Contact letter is pretty nasty. I did try to keep an

even

> tone and said " I still love you, and I don't think you're a bad

> person, but I cannot deal with your emotional problems any more. "

But

> I also bring up the childhood abuse and state that I'm aware she's

> been telling unpleasant stories about me to friends and neighbors.

>

> Well, I know because once when I was younger I tried to confont

her

> and asked (in a nice tone of voice) " why did you keep telling me I

was

> ugly when I was little. I wasn't ugly and even if you didn't like

how

> I looked that just hurt me so much. It still hurts. " Of course

she

> raged and denied ever having said anything like that, denied she

was

> even capable of it, and turned it on me as me abusing her by

accusing

> her of abusing me. So I do know how she will probably react to my

> letter.

>

> I am prepared to lose the rest of my family as she will probably

turn

> every relative against me as she plays up what a victim she is.

> Because I've heard it before I know she will say I've always been

> crazy and abusive and I have problems. She might even claim that

I'm

> a sexual deviant like she has accused other people.

>

> Still, my husband keeps pushing me to just set limits and be

strong

> for once.

>

June 15, 2006

Thank you so much for all the great advice. I want to respond to

everyone but will have to do it in bits and pieces. You are all so

great and supportive

> Your husband's encouragement as a negotiator

> working on a compromise is most likely just the consequences of

her getting

> to HIM on some level. You know what that means? It means that now

you have

> to protect the both of you before she gets her fangs any deeper

into him.

> You are fighting for both of you now.

You are so right. I did stand up to her last year and tell her that

she was not to call him or visit him ever again. She can talk to

him on the phone if she calls the house and we both talk to her, but

she was supposed to NEVER call him at work any more. Well she did

call him at work last week because she " was worried about " me. I

just about lost it, but that's going in my letter. She knows how I

feel about her going to him behind my back.

>He loves you and wants the best for

> you, but words can't make him thoroughly understand what you have

gone

> through. I've often compared what we have gone through to people

who have

> had migraines....unless you have actually HAD a migraine, you

can't fathom

> the pain. Remember...BPD's are chameleons...most of the time other

people

> think they are FABULOUS people. The fact that YOU are a fabulous

person

> probably " waters down " the true picture of her to him as well. I

know it

> took my husband almost 7 years to get it. I seemed so laid

back...he

> thought for sure I had to have just embellished

everything....after all, how

> can 2 horrible people raise a child who is totally normal?

Yes!! We've been there too--he says that sometimes he can't believe

what I tell him because she acts so perfectly sweet around him. But

he does believe me, just because he trusts me. Recently he saw her

go through a scary episode where she wasn't acting mean, but

definitely acting crazy and he said it was so frightening to him to

observe. Now he says he understands how vindictive she is because

he sees the symptoms--other people repeating the mean things she

says and seeing how everyone is terrified.

>After hundreds

> of hours of therapy with me, and getting to know them over the

years he

> began to see it....now he is reading the books I have purchased

about it and

> it is even MORE clear to him. Maybe that would help with your

hubby? Stay

> the course sweetie....know that their is an army of KO's here for

you for

> support. Listen to that little voice that is guiding you, and

stay strong.

> Have faith in YOU....we do!

>

> Kisses and Nibbles,

> Bunny

>

Thank you! I am showing him the books and that does help--so he

knows it's a whole syndrome.

Thank you, Neva

June 15, 2006

>

> It sounds like, for now, you might be too exhausted to feel like

> taking on the hard work of putting down boundaries and there is

> NOTHING wrong with that. One thing that has worked for me has

been to

> limit contact w/o directly explaining that I am doing it--to go

AWOL

> for a while and just gather my strenghth so I can deal with Nada

again.

>

Thank you!! I am AWOL now and this is the second day of it. This

was not an intentional choice on my part. I honestly cannot talk to

her at this moment without having it out about the disrespectful

things she said on the phone a few days ago and also the things she

said to her neighbors about me that got back to me recently. So I

can't talk right now. I wanted my ducks in a row before confronting

her, and that's when I wrote my letter. When I got into writing it

though so much came out and I went from writing a " you've got to

stop saying disrespectful things to me " letter to a " don't call or

attempt to contact me any further " letter.

> I will not answer the pone until I know who it is, and when it's

nada,

> I can choose to call her back or not.

This is what I'm doing. She calls. I don't pick up, she calls back

blocking her number, and she'll do it as many as 10 times in a row.

She goes to hospitals and asks the front desk if she can make a call

from their phone, so it shows up the id as " Emergency Care. " She's

tricked me a few times that way, but I don't pick up those any

more. She also goes to other people's houses and uses their phones

and has borrowed people's cell phones. I now keep a log of all the

numbers she uses to keep from getting tricked twice with the same

number.

>

> You mentioned her calling while you are at work. If I were you,

I'd

> seek out ways to get this to stop ASAP. It's sounds very

draining.

> Perhaps you can find a way to screen your calls and not pick up if

> it's her. That would be the easiest way.

True, but sometimes I miss legitimate work calls because I won't

pick up any " unknown name " or " private caller " calls and sometimes

they're actually not her. Since she tricks me so much with friends

phones I stopped answering if they're from her area code--which

definitely interferes with work. But she actually drove to another

state twice and called me from out of state numbers and tricked me.

The hospital all of the time too!

If I don't pick up I avoid her, but it's very disturbing. My boss

thought I was not doing my job because she was by my desk and the

phone rang 10 times in a row (not 10 rings--it would ring I wouldn't

pick up and she'd call right back). So I had to say " sorry, my

mother is harassing me so I'm letting her calls go to voice mail. "

But I have to do frequent conference calls and I have more than one

line, so if I'm on a conference call and she calls 10 times, then

each call makes 10 buzzing noises during the conference call and

it's very disturbing.

I used to just pick up " to get it over with " but even if I talk to

her that doesn't stop her from calling back again and again because

she forgot something or was wondering if I still remembered that

wonderful present she gave me last year, or she has a question for

my husband and wanted to know if it was ok to call him (NO!! She's

not allowed to call my husband).

Hence I feel like my only solution is to really put my cards on the

table with my letter. My husband thinks I should just play up about

my manager getting upset about the phone and then say I got in

trouble for personal calls at work and if she calls any more I'll

get fired. But I'm not sure a lie is the solution. I mean, if I

say that it implies that what she's doing is ok and my boss is the

big unreasonable one. What I want to say is that nowhere in the

civilized world is this acceptable behavior.

Sorry for the rant!! I guess I'm feeling touchy. Neva

June 15, 2006

>

> Honey I am so sorry. You know you are beautiful. You have a great

> husband who loves and supports you cling to him and what he says.

Thank you--he is so kind and compassionate, which is why I love him

so much, but I also know that makes him her ideal victim, so I worry

he is fooled sometimes.

>And if she says you look sallow its just probly because

> you look great! My nada used to always tell me " purple drains

>you " .

> Now when I wear purple I get complaments. I am sure she is

>jealous.

>

So true!! Wow!

> Sometimes it when they fake nice that they cut the deepest. You

>know

> they are a toxic snake ready snap at any moment and you dont even

> know what hit you until its to late. You need to protect yourself

> first.

Yes, it's so eerie because everything is fine but my heart will be

beating like I'm in a war zone. I'm just waiting for the twilight

zone music to start playing.

Thank you, Neva

June 15, 2006

I'm reading about the calls your NADA makes to you and

HOLY COW. I thought my NADA was creative but I have to

say, she hasn't driven to other states yet or a

hospital to call me.

My Nada does the calling repeatedly thing too- I know

what you mean when you're on a conference call and the

constant buzzing in. I really thought I was alone in

this so it's really a relief in a lot of ways to know

other NADAs use the same behavior. Makes me feel less

crazy. But how do they learn to do all this??

My NADAs latest calling feat is she's gotten a hold of

my boss's phone # (Because I work from home and had

call block on against her calls) She's been calling my

boss posing as a member from her church telling my

boss she needs to have me call my mother. My boss

conferenced me in to the VM she left, and I could tell

it was my NADA's voice.

Do they think we're idiots??!!

I'm trying to let it lie for now hoping she will stop.

otherwise I think I may have to take legal action

against her.

I'm praying fervently (and I'll pray for you too) that

I do the RIGHT thing. Not act out of maliciousness or

anger but also keep my boundaries and my sanity in

tact.

Thanks for sharing!!!!

--- Nevada wrote:

>

> >

> > It sounds like, for now, you might be too

> exhausted to feel like

> > taking on the hard work of putting down boundaries

> and there is

> > NOTHING wrong with that. One thing that has

> worked for me has

> been to

> > limit contact w/o directly explaining that I am

> doing it--to go

> AWOL

> > for a while and just gather my strenghth so I can

> deal with Nada

> again.

> >

> Thank you!! I am AWOL now and this is the second day

> of it. This

> was not an intentional choice on my part. I

> honestly cannot talk to

> her at this moment without having it out about the

> disrespectful

> things she said on the phone a few days ago and also

> the things she

> said to her neighbors about me that got back to me

> recently. So I

> can't talk right now. I wanted my ducks in a row

> before confronting

> her, and that's when I wrote my letter. When I got

> into writing it

> though so much came out and I went from writing a

> " you've got to

> stop saying disrespectful things to me " letter to a

> " don't call or

> attempt to contact me any further " letter.

>

> > I will not answer the pone until I know who it is,

> and when it's

> nada,

> > I can choose to call her back or not.

>

> This is what I'm doing. She calls. I don't pick

> up, she calls back

> blocking her number, and she'll do it as many as 10

> times in a row.

> She goes to hospitals and asks the front desk if she

> can make a call

> from their phone, so it shows up the id as

> " Emergency Care. " She's

> tricked me a few times that way, but I don't pick up

> those any

> more. She also goes to other people's houses and

> uses their phones

> and has borrowed people's cell phones. I now keep a

> log of all the

> numbers she uses to keep from getting tricked twice

> with the same

> number.

>

> >

> > You mentioned her calling while you are at work.

> If I were you,

> I'd

> > seek out ways to get this to stop ASAP. It's

> sounds very

> draining.

> > Perhaps you can find a way to screen your calls

> and not pick up if

> > it's her. That would be the easiest way.

>

> True, but sometimes I miss legitimate work calls

> because I won't

> pick up any " unknown name " or " private caller " calls

> and sometimes

> they're actually not her. Since she tricks me so

> much with friends

> phones I stopped answering if they're from her area

> code--which

> definitely interferes with work. But she actually

> drove to another

> state twice and called me from out of state numbers

> and tricked me.

> The hospital all of the time too!

>

> If I don't pick up I avoid her, but it's very

> disturbing. My boss

> thought I was not doing my job because she was by my

> desk and the

> phone rang 10 times in a row (not 10 rings--it would

> ring I wouldn't

> pick up and she'd call right back). So I had to say

> " sorry, my

> mother is harassing me so I'm letting her calls go

> to voice mail. "

> But I have to do frequent conference calls and I

> have more than one

> line, so if I'm on a conference call and she calls

> 10 times, then

> each call makes 10 buzzing noises during the

> conference call and

> it's very disturbing.

>

> I used to just pick up " to get it over with " but

> even if I talk to

> her that doesn't stop her from calling back again

> and again because

> she forgot something or was wondering if I still

> remembered that

> wonderful present she gave me last year, or she has

> a question for

> my husband and wanted to know if it was ok to call

> him (NO!! She's

> not allowed to call my husband).

>

> Hence I feel like my only solution is to really put

> my cards on the

> table with my letter. My husband thinks I should

> just play up about

> my manager getting upset about the phone and then

> say I got in

> trouble for personal calls at work and if she calls

> any more I'll

> get fired. But I'm not sure a lie is the solution.

> I mean, if I

> say that it implies that what she's doing is ok and

> my boss is the

> big unreasonable one. What I want to say is that

> nowhere in the

> civilized world is this acceptable behavior.

>

> Sorry for the rant!! I guess I'm feeling touchy.

> Neva

>

__________________________________________________

June 15, 2006

>

> I'm reading about the calls your NADA makes to you and

> HOLY COW. I thought my NADA was creative but I have to

> say, she hasn't driven to other states yet or a

> hospital to call me.

Ha ha!! So get this--I live in an area near the state line of one

state. She lives near the state line in the state south of us,

which still puts her about a 45 minute drive from me, which is just

way too close. So she calls me from places in my state, which is

almost expected. Then she called me from the state south of her,

which I think even the closest part is at least a four hour drive

from her. She tricked me into picking it up that time, so I

asked " so, what are you doing today? " She said " oh, I'm just doing

some shopping. " Huh?

>

> My Nada does the calling repeatedly thing too- I know

> what you mean when you're on a conference call and the

> constant buzzing in. I really thought I was alone in

> this so it's really a relief in a lot of ways to know

> other NADAs use the same behavior. Makes me feel less

> crazy. But how do they learn to do all this??

I have no idea, but it's really annoying.

>

> My NADAs latest calling feat is she's gotten a hold of

> my boss's phone # (Because I work from home and had

> call block on against her calls) She's been calling my

> boss posing as a member from her church telling my

> boss she needs to have me call my mother. My boss

> conferenced me in to the VM she left, and I could tell

> it was my NADA's voice.

> Do they think we're idiots??!!

Yes! Do you have a relationship with your boss to the point where

you can let her know that you have an issue with your mother and she

should just ignore her or else also block her number.

I hate to think what would happen if my mother got my boss's

number. That would be frightening.

Thanks for your kind thoughts. Yes, I've considered a restraining

order too, but I'll start by letting her know she can't keep doing

it, though any normal person would already know.

Neva

June 15, 2006

Neva, I'd be feeling touchy too! That IS obnoxious. I think that if

she's willing to be that coniving, she probably does need your direct

feedback on the matter and possibly an even more serious

consequence--like you will file charges because she is harassing you

ar work--I wonder if there's some way you could do that. If I were

you, I'd check it out. I agree with you that lying about it is

probably not the answer. If I were you, I'd also have a brief but

honest conversation with my manager about the issue and see if she has

any ideas about ways you could screen your calls w/o missing clients

and also if she has any ideas about ways to stop such harassment--they

might have experience with that, who knows?!

And my nada has also learned the trick of calling from other people's

cells and having an ulisted number etc. That's why I always wait to

hear the message first. But obviously, that works better at home

because I can actually hear the person's voice and then decide whether

or not to pick up.

Anyway, good luck. This sounds very frustrating, but you have the

advantage of being much saner than your nada, so I'm sure you'll find

a way to deal with it eventually.

Trish

> >

> > It sounds like, for now, you might be too exhausted to feel like

> > taking on the hard work of putting down boundaries and there is

> > NOTHING wrong with that. One thing that has worked for me has

> been to

> > limit contact w/o directly explaining that I am doing it--to go

> AWOL

> > for a while and just gather my strenghth so I can deal with Nada

> again.

> >

> Thank you!! I am AWOL now and this is the second day of it. This

> was not an intentional choice on my part. I honestly cannot talk to

> her at this moment without having it out about the disrespectful

> things she said on the phone a few days ago and also the things she

> said to her neighbors about me that got back to me recently. So I

> can't talk right now. I wanted my ducks in a row before confronting

> her, and that's when I wrote my letter. When I got into writing it

> though so much came out and I went from writing a " you've got to

> stop saying disrespectful things to me " letter to a " don't call or

> attempt to contact me any further " letter.

>

> > I will not answer the pone until I know who it is, and when it's

> nada,

> > I can choose to call her back or not.

>

> This is what I'm doing. She calls. I don't pick up, she calls back

> blocking her number, and she'll do it as many as 10 times in a row.

> She goes to hospitals and asks the front desk if she can make a call

> from their phone, so it shows up the id as " Emergency Care. " She's

> tricked me a few times that way, but I don't pick up those any

> more. She also goes to other people's houses and uses their phones

> and has borrowed people's cell phones. I now keep a log of all the

> numbers she uses to keep from getting tricked twice with the same

> number.

>

> >

> > You mentioned her calling while you are at work. If I were you,

> I'd

> > seek out ways to get this to stop ASAP. It's sounds very

> draining.

> > Perhaps you can find a way to screen your calls and not pick up if

> > it's her. That would be the easiest way.

>

> True, but sometimes I miss legitimate work calls because I won't

> pick up any " unknown name " or " private caller " calls and sometimes

> they're actually not her. Since she tricks me so much with friends

> phones I stopped answering if they're from her area code--which

> definitely interferes with work. But she actually drove to another

> state twice and called me from out of state numbers and tricked me.

> The hospital all of the time too!

>

> If I don't pick up I avoid her, but it's very disturbing. My boss

> thought I was not doing my job because she was by my desk and the

> phone rang 10 times in a row (not 10 rings--it would ring I wouldn't

> pick up and she'd call right back). So I had to say " sorry, my

> mother is harassing me so I'm letting her calls go to voice mail. "

> But I have to do frequent conference calls and I have more than one

> line, so if I'm on a conference call and she calls 10 times, then

> each call makes 10 buzzing noises during the conference call and

> it's very disturbing.

>

> I used to just pick up " to get it over with " but even if I talk to

> her that doesn't stop her from calling back again and again because

> she forgot something or was wondering if I still remembered that

> wonderful present she gave me last year, or she has a question for

> my husband and wanted to know if it was ok to call him (NO!! She's

> not allowed to call my husband).

>

> Hence I feel like my only solution is to really put my cards on the

> table with my letter. My husband thinks I should just play up about

> my manager getting upset about the phone and then say I got in

> trouble for personal calls at work and if she calls any more I'll

> get fired. But I'm not sure a lie is the solution. I mean, if I

> say that it implies that what she's doing is ok and my boss is the

> big unreasonable one. What I want to say is that nowhere in the

> civilized world is this acceptable behavior.

>

> Sorry for the rant!! I guess I'm feeling touchy. Neva

>

June 16, 2006

Experience with manipulative nada! Been there, seen that-several times

before. Of course, we KOs are terrified of having an opinion of our

own...nadas

are very good at being the family martyr.

When a nada is on 'good behavior' that gut-wrenching dread that we feel is

the knowledge that she perceives a 'hole in her dam', and is acting on fixing

it; by being 'nice' she is merely 'putting her finger in the dyke'

temporarily...stifling her abusive remarks/behavior until the extended whomever

is

again completely confused and compliant... She will revert to 'normal'

aggressive, vindictive behavior when she again feels 'safe'...has her entourage

under

control.

I've been the 'bad child', the one who will not do the family dance, for

almost 30 years; the 'evil-child' for two years, the one who will not

'forgive/forget/allow the abuse to effect my children/marriage/life'.

* A 'nice' person is one who survives by 'pleasing'; has no personal

opinions...or none that they risk standing up for, has no positions, needs, and

no

standard of 'bottom line' behavior that they will accept from others.

Being a 'nice' person is what I've been in recovery FROM for the past 30

years.

Forgiveness: WHAT is that? Does it mean that the abusing person gets to

continue demeaning, criticizing, using us for their own self grandiose purpose,

her own amusement ... with no natural consequences? And does forgiveness

mean that I have to continue to tollerate abuse??? I don't think so.

I have come to believe that 'forgiveness' means that 'I will no longer allow

that person's behavior to influence my choices and reactions'; but I relieve

them of the responsibility of being accountable to me for the damage that

they have done to me/my life/relationships. Thus, I do forgive my mother for

using me to make herself a martyr...but that does not define me as a victim.

No Contact means 'NO CONTACT'. Write 'return to sender' on all mail from

the nada. Do not pick up the phone when she calls (you need caller ID), delete

messages BEFORE you listen to them, keep your house doors locked when you

are alone, do not attend 'extended-family' functions without your husband to

isolate you from them.

Hugs, Carol

In a message dated 6/15/2006 9:38:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

catrescueneva@... writes: