Re: I Was A Non-Person

[Guest guest]

When I was 12, I slipped and fell on ice and broke my fall by landing

with my full weight on my wrist. For 2 months (you read that right!) I

complained my wrist hurt. It was back when wrist watches (feminine

type) had that black non-stretchable thin band that was held together

with 2 " gold " interlocking clasps. My wrist became not only so swollen

I could no longer wear the watch, but I couldn't even pick up an EMPTY

lunchroom tiny bottle (half pint glass!!) of milk.

FInally after many days of protesting, nada finally took me to the

doctor. Yup...I had a " green stick fracture " and was casted for 6

weeks. She was " ...so sorry... " . And to this day, although I'm not

particularly stoic, I try not to complain about any ailments or pains as

I feel that will not only fall on deaf ears, but I will be regarded as

histrionic.......this almost cost me my life 7 yrs. ago when I required

life-saving colon surgery that removed 1/3 of my colon due to a twist

that resulted in expansion from 3 cm to 28 or quarter size to dinner

plate size. I never complained until it was almost too late.

> >

> > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> I've

> > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> ask:

> > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> was 5

> > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> figure

> > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> >

> > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> tried

> > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

> person.

> >

> > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> >

> > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> easel I

> > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> moving

> > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> The

> > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> >

> > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> up in

> > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> hanger,

> > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> >

> > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told

> my

> > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

> so I

> > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

> and

> > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

> was

> > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> (and a

> > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> >

> > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> >

> > -Deanna

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry to hear about your experience. I understood how you

felt like a non-person. No one knows what it feels like to be a non-

person, unless you have experienced this kind of abuse. I fractured

my arm as an adult, wow it hurt. I know your pain on so many levels.

Just keep remembering you are not a victim anymore and you are a

person!

Malinda

> > >

> > > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> > I've

> > > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> > ask:

> > > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> > was 5

> > > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> > figure

> > > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> > >

> > > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because

since

> > > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> > tried

> > > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a

non

> > person.

> > >

> > > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> > >

> > > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> > easel I

> > > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> > moving

> > > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> > The

> > > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my

set

> > > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> > >

> > > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad

flew,

> > > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> > up in

> > > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After

landing, I

> > > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> > hanger,

> > > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a

40

> > > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink

of

> > > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> > >

> > > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I

told

> > my

> > > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told

her

> > > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were

just

> > > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my

pants,

> > so I

> > > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was

5

> > and

> > > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I

had to

> > > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take

me. I

> > was

> > > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> > (and a

> > > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that)

But

> > > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> > >

> > > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanx Malinda...and yes...as an adult (5 yrs ago...gee, was I an adult,

then?!!!!) I broke my ankle and required 10 screws and 2 metal plates.

I have NEVER endured so much pain, and nada asked that I come from SF

Bay area out to Colorado to " see her " . Although she died a short time

later, and needing wheelchair service at the airport for the flight out

when she died, she just couldn't or wouldn't give up the incessant

nagging as to why I couldn't come out to visit.

> > > >

> > > > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> > > I've

> > > > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> > > ask:

> > > > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> > > was 5

> > > > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> > > figure

> > > > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> > > >

> > > > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > > > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because

> since

> > > > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> > > tried

> > > > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a

> non

> > > person.

> > > >

> > > > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> > > >

> > > > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> > > easel I

> > > > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> > > moving

> > > > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > > > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> > > The

> > > > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my

> set

> > > > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> > > >

> > > > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad

> flew,

> > > > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> > > up in

> > > > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After

> landing, I

> > > > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> > > hanger,

> > > > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a

> 40

> > > > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > > > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink

> of

> > > > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> > > >

> > > > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I

> told

> > > my

> > > > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told

> her

> > > > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were

> just

> > > > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my

> pants,

> > > so I

> > > > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was

> 5

> > > and

> > > > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I

> had to

> > > > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take

> me. I

> > > was

> > > > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> > > (and a

> > > > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that)

> But

> > > > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> > > >

> > > > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > > > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> > > >

> > > > -Deanna

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Damn, that's familiar!! I broke my foot playing when I was eight. I kept telling

her how much it hurt to walk. She took me to the mall to shop (for her, no

less!) and I kept crying from the pain. She told me I was being manipulative and

trying to get attention. So, I started feeling really guilty about it and

stopped complaining. I broke it when it was still cold out (so February/March,

maybe?) and after school let out I spent some time at my grandparents' house.

When my grandpa tried to help me with my shoes he couldn't get that one on over

the swelling. I told him how long it'd been hurting and he was furious. He

called my nada at work and yelled at her, made her come get me and take me to

the doctor. I had to wear a brace on it all summer. It was kinda vindicating

lol! I've never heard my grandpa yell at her before or since. I don't remember

her ever saying she was sorry. I do remember her telling the doctor that I

didn't complain about it. What a liar.

In the same visit he took an x-ray of my entire leg (to check for damage

further up I guess) and discovered that my leg bone had never grown into the

socket of my hip, which made me limp. Nada had been yelling at me or punishing

me for limping as long as I can remember before that. I remember her shaking me

once, saying I should just walk right and was I trying to embarass her by

attracting attention to myself? Well, he used a larger brace and a pair of those

things you put in your shoes (orthodics [sp]?) to correct the limp and it hasn't

been a problem since. No apology for that either. She just said " well, at least

you weren't lying about that one " . Sure, a child under age 8 is going to

fabricate a limp and then a broken foot. What purpose could I have possibly

had?!

Jae

grustel wrote:

When I was 12, I slipped and fell on ice and broke my fall by landing

with my full weight on my wrist. For 2 months (you read that right!) I

complained my wrist hurt. It was back when wrist watches (feminine

type) had that black non-stretchable thin band that was held together

with 2 " gold " interlocking clasps. My wrist became not only so swollen

I could no longer wear the watch, but I couldn't even pick up an EMPTY

lunchroom tiny bottle (half pint glass!!) of milk.

FInally after many days of protesting, nada finally took me to the

doctor. Yup...I had a " green stick fracture " and was casted for 6

weeks. She was " ...so sorry... " . And to this day, although I'm not

particularly stoic, I try not to complain about any ailments or pains as

I feel that will not only fall on deaf ears, but I will be regarded as

histrionic.......this almost cost me my life 7 yrs. ago when I required

life-saving colon surgery that removed 1/3 of my colon due to a twist

that resulted in expansion from 3 cm to 28 or quarter size to dinner

plate size. I never complained until it was almost too late.

> >

> > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> I've

> > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> ask:

> > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> was 5

> > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> figure

> > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> >

> > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> tried

> > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

> person.

> >

> > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> >

> > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> easel I

> > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> moving

> > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> The

> > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> >

> > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> up in

> > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> hanger,

> > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> >

> > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told

> my

> > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

> so I

> > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

> and

> > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

> was

> > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> (and a

> > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> >

> > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> >

> > -Deanna

> >

>

---------------------------------

Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

[Guest guest]

My sister spent the night with a broken arm. I think nada blamed my

dad for that one, and indeed, he was not any more helpful than she

was, but wtf, neither one could listen? She was somewhere btwn 8-10 I

think. I think too though that we just didn't complain, like the dog

peeing on me, we just took it all. My sister and I are both still

horrible about being sick, we hate to admit it etc, so afraid of being

like nada. Self-care is a huge part of my healing, from seeing the

doctor regularly to buying clothes when I need them (I still suck at

that lol).

>

> Damn, that's familiar!! I broke my foot playing when I was eight. I

kept telling her how much it hurt to walk. She took me to the mall to

shop (for her, no less!) and I kept crying from the pain. She told me

I was being manipulative and trying to get attention. So, I started

feeling really guilty about it and stopped complaining. I broke it

when it was still cold out (so February/March, maybe?) and after

school let out I spent some time at my grandparents' house. When my

grandpa tried to help me with my shoes he couldn't get that one on

over the swelling. I told him how long it'd been hurting and he was

furious. He called my nada at work and yelled at her, made her come

get me and take me to the doctor. I had to wear a brace on it all

summer. It was kinda vindicating lol! I've never heard my grandpa yell

at her before or since. I don't remember her ever saying she was

sorry. I do remember her telling the doctor that I didn't complain

about it. What a liar.

>

> In the same visit he took an x-ray of my entire leg (to check for

damage further up I guess) and discovered that my leg bone had never

grown into the socket of my hip, which made me limp. Nada had been

yelling at me or punishing me for limping as long as I can remember

before that. I remember her shaking me once, saying I should just walk

right and was I trying to embarass her by attracting attention to

myself? Well, he used a larger brace and a pair of those things you

put in your shoes (orthodics [sp]?) to correct the limp and it hasn't

been a problem since. No apology for that either. She just said " well,

at least you weren't lying about that one " . Sure, a child under age 8

is going to fabricate a limp and then a broken foot. What purpose

could I have possibly had?!

>

> Jae

>

[Guest guest]

I now know I have scoliosis..and am paying the price for it...but won't

elaborate, cuz it's just what it is...but still remember her taking me

to this doc who I remember saying SOMETHING in re: to my back. YOwie,

huh?

So glad you mended completely...don't get it...just don't understand

this, sometimes, as much as I try...

> > >

> > > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> > I've

> > > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> > ask:

> > > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> > was 5

> > > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> > figure

> > > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> > >

> > > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> > > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> > tried

> > > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

> > person.

> > >

> > > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> > >

> > > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> > easel I

> > > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> > moving

> > > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> > The

> > > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> > > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> > >

> > > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> > > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> > up in

> > > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> > > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> > hanger,

> > > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> > > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> > > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> > >

> > > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told

> > my

> > > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> > > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> > > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

> > so I

> > > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

> > and

> > > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> > > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

> > was

> > > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> > (and a

> > > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> > > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> > >

> > > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

> with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

I've

> had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

ask:

> is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I was

5

> that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really figure

> out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

>

> I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

tried

> to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

person.

>

> Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

>

> 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's easel

I

> had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

moving

> truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

The

> house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

>

> 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw up

in

> the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

hanger,

> and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> water or something to wash out the vile taste.

>

> 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told my

> nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

so I

> told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

and

> a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

was

> wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

(and a

> part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

>

> Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

>

> -Deanna

Deanna,

I'm so sorry about what you are going through, the sleeplessness and

self doubt, and anxiety.

The stories you shared really do suggest that your nada didn't think

about your needs, especially if they weren't convenient for her. She

sounds very self centered.

I'm assuming you are feeling agitated because you aren't sure if

you " have a right " to go NC.

I suffer from the same issues, and also need ALOT of validation. It

is to much easier to see the justification for someone else.

One thing I'm really beginning to grasp is that when you are treated

as a non-person, youhave it ingrained i you that whatever emotional

pain you feel you have to suck up.

You did suck up a lot as a child because you had to depend on your

mother to take care of you.

Because you have been shaped by your motther's reality, you have

absorbed her belief system that she is the only one who matters.

The part of you that knows howmuch that mindset hurts, bravely

stepped up to the plate an said, " no more " . With someone who hasBPD,

you have to take a stand with ultra clear boundaries, because they do

whatever they can to disregard them. So you have to be really strong

to protect yourelf.

And do protect yourself. You deserve to be treated with dignity. You

need to take a stand, and NC is probably the only stand which will

work with someone who disregards you.

Of course you are sleepless and agitated. Going NC is a loss for you.

Everyone would love a mother who supports and accepts them for who

they are. Its a loss when you acknowlege to yourself that you did not

get that.

It is also understandable that you will feel fear by not giving you

mother what she wants, you have been conditioned to place her needs

above yours for your whole life.

When you feel orried about her reaction to NC, remembe its her voice

you are hearing, that she matters above you.

When you feel sadness about the loss, try journaling it out, grief is

a process.

Above all, congratulations for standing up and taking care of you

first!

Amy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

I've

> had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

ask:

> is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I was

5

> that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really figure

> out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

>

> I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

tried

> to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

person.

>

> Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

>

> 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's easel

I

> had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

moving

> truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

The

> house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

>

> 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw up

in

> the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

hanger,

> and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> water or something to wash out the vile taste.

>

> 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told my

> nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

so I

> told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

and

> a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

was

> wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

(and a

> part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

>

> Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

>

> -Deanna

Deanna,

I'm so sorry about what you are going through, the sleeplessness and

self doubt, and anxiety.

The stories you shared really do suggest that your nada didn't think

about your needs, especially if they weren't convenient for her. She

sounds very self centered.

I'm assuming you are feeling agitated because you aren't sure if

you " have a right " to go NC.

I suffer from the same issues, and also need ALOT of validation. It

is to much easier to see the justification for someone else.

One thing I'm really beginning to grasp is that when you are treated

as a non-person, youhave it ingrained i you that whatever emotional

pain you feel you have to suck up.

You did suck up a lot as a child because you had to depend on your

mother to take care of you.

Because you have been shaped by your motther's reality, you have

absorbed her belief system that she is the only one who matters.

The part of you that knows howmuch that mindset hurts, bravely

stepped up to the plate an said, " no more " . With someone who hasBPD,

you have to take a stand with ultra clear boundaries, because they do

whatever they can to disregard them. So you have to be really strong

to protect yourelf.

And do protect yourself. You deserve to be treated with dignity. You

need to take a stand, and NC is probably the only stand which will

work with someone who disregards you.

Of course you are sleepless and agitated. Going NC is a loss for you.

Everyone would love a mother who supports and accepts them for who

they are. Its a loss when you acknowlege to yourself that you did not

get that.

It is also understandable that you will feel fear by not giving you

mother what she wants, you have been conditioned to place her needs

above yours for your whole life.

When you feel orried about her reaction to NC, remembe its her voice

you are hearing, that she matters above you.

When you feel sadness about the loss, try journaling it out, grief is

a process.

Above all, congratulations for standing up and taking care of you

first!

Amy

>

[Guest guest]

was wondering jae, if your nada was a hypochondraic. sounds like

typical self-projection to me. why else would you accuse an eight year

old of making up injuries to get attention? mine was exactly the same,

though not quite that bad as your experiences. i'm sorry about your

trauma and i hope you are well-healed from it (both mentally &

physically)!

love to you,

christine.

> > >

> > > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> > I've

> > > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> > ask:

> > > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> > was 5

> > > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> > figure

> > > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> > >

> > > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> > > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> > tried

> > > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

> > person.

> > >

> > > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> > >

> > > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> > easel I

> > > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> > moving

> > > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> > The

> > > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> > > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> > >

> > > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> > > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> > up in

> > > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> > > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> > hanger,

> > > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> > > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> > > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> > >

> > > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told

> > my

> > > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> > > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> > > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

> > so I

> > > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

> > and

> > > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> > > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

> > was

> > > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> > (and a

> > > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> > > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> > >

> > > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

> with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I love how all of our families expect us to " just get over " this

stuff. These stories are so horrible. They are criminal!

-Deanna

[Guest guest]

try this one. My nada actually broke my foot as a young child. I found out about

it when i went in to get xrays for a sprained ankle years later as an adult.

They

found old old fractures with bone fragments that had healed. the docs were

incredulous that i didnt remember ever having broke it. well....now i know why

my feet have always ached in cold weather and why i cannot wear high heels

for more than two hours and why i cant stand or walk for very long. I

remember also not being able to run very fast or very far as a child. Its really

hard to even realize something was wrong when it was always that way and

always felt that way. I thought it was just naturally me and the way i was

built.

know what else really hurts. To call relatives up and tell them in tears. They

act sympathetic, then call dad up to discuss and you dont hear a word for

months until these relatives come to visit and you overhear them laughing with

your father about it.

nan

> > >

> > > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> > I've

> > > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> > ask:

> > > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> > was 5

> > > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> > figure

> > > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> > >

> > > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> > > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> > tried

> > > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

> > person.

> > >

> > > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> > >

> > > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> > easel I

> > > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> > moving

> > > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> > The

> > > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> > > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> > >

> > > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> > > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> > up in

> > > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> > > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> > hanger,

> > > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> > > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> > > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> > >

> > > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told

> > my

> > > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> > > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> > > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

> > so I

> > > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

> > and

> > > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> > > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

> > was

> > > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> > (and a

> > > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> > > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> > >

> > > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

> with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

>

>

[Guest guest]

that's awful, Nan...I wouldn't bother telling family about anything, as I

would never have been believed...my nada cracked a rib on me...she was

" doing " the Heimlich only 1) I was choking, I was coughing, and 2) she was

a RN so SHOULD have known how to do it properly....we had been arguing, and

I started coughing ( I have asthma) and she grabbed and squeezed me real

tight...she's also giving me a huge bruise when she stuck her elbow as hard

as she could into the middle of my back, claiming she learned this is how

you relive a headache..again...we had been arguing just before...so I think

these were purposeful acts of violence against me in the guise of " helping'

since I was too old/big to use physical abuse against me any more...

Jackie

try this one. My nada actually broke my foot as a young child. I found out

about

it when i went in to get xrays for a sprained ankle years later as an adult.

They

found old old fractures with bone fragments that had healed. the docs were

incredulous that i didnt remember ever having broke it. well....now i know

why

my feet have always ached in cold weather and why i cannot wear high heels

for more than two hours and why i cant stand or walk for very long. I

remember also not being able to run very fast or very far as a child. Its

really

hard to even realize something was wrong when it was always that way and

always felt that way. I thought it was just naturally me and the way i was

built.

know what else really hurts. To call relatives up and tell them in tears.

They

act sympathetic, then call dad up to discuss and you dont hear a word for

months until these relatives come to visit and you overhear them laughing

with

your father about it.

nan

[Guest guest]

Acutally, no. She was rarely ill and when she was, she was brave about it. I

don't think she's ever missed work due to illness. I think she just didn't want

an un-perfect child. A lot of her comments and abuse seem to be along those

lines. I'd say half of her accusations were along the lines of " how do you think

that makes me look as a mother " or " I'm too ashamed to call you my daughter " or

" why can't you just act normal/put up a front " . She'd also envy other parents

with " better " children. " Little so-and-so just got a scholarship for violin, why

can't you be good at anything? " or " Look at that little girl, she takes time

with her hair, I wonder if her mother knows how bad she could have it. " and " why

can't you be friends with her, she's so pretty! Maybe if you lost weight she'd

want to be your friend " . To her, any inperfection reflected badly on her as a

mother and her image as the struggling. saintly, single mother was the most

important thing to her. I've started looking

into NPD and wondering if she doesn't have some of those traits as well. I

think, at her core, she thinks if she's perfect, she'll never be abandoned.

Unfortunately, she puts the pressure on everyone around her to make her look

perfect instead of doing the work herself. If the latter was the case, I could

pity her. But as it is, I knew her image was more important than me. Always was

and always will be.

A hypochondriac nada must have been really confusing!! You must have wondered

why she was allowed to be sick all the time and you never were. I can only

imagine how frustrating that must have been. The really sad thing is how much

children depend on their parents when they hurt. Kids are scared of being sick!

They don't know how to differentiate between very serious symptoms and normal

illness, like a cold. We need parents to teach us that difference for our adult

health!

Jae

christine wrote:

was wondering jae, if your nada was a hypochondraic. sounds like

typical self-projection to me. why else would you accuse an eight year

old of making up injuries to get attention? mine was exactly the same,

though not quite that bad as your experiences. i'm sorry about your

trauma and i hope you are well-healed from it (both mentally &

physically)!

love to you,

christine.

> > >

> > > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> > I've

> > > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> > ask:

> > > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> > was 5

> > > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> > figure

> > > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> > >

> > > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> > > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> > tried

> > > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

> > person.

> > >

> > > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> > >

> > > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> > easel I

> > > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> > moving

> > > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> > The

> > > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> > > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> > >

> > > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> > > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> > up in

> > > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> > > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> > hanger,

> > > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> > > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> > > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> > >

> > > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told

> > my

> > > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> > > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> > > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

> > so I

> > > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

> > and

> > > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> > > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

> > was

> > > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> > (and a

> > > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> > > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> > >

> > > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

> with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's terrible!!! They laughed?!?! Nan, I think some people are asking for

lousy holiday gifts this year. You should send them an x-ray or a broken doll

foot or something. If they think it's so funny, they have the humor as a gift.

Was the doctor able to fix it?

Jae

westwindspirit wrote:

try this one. My nada actually broke my foot as a young child. I found

out about

it when i went in to get xrays for a sprained ankle years later as an adult.

They

found old old fractures with bone fragments that had healed. the docs were

incredulous that i didnt remember ever having broke it. well....now i know why

my feet have always ached in cold weather and why i cannot wear high heels

for more than two hours and why i cant stand or walk for very long. I

remember also not being able to run very fast or very far as a child. Its really

hard to even realize something was wrong when it was always that way and

always felt that way. I thought it was just naturally me and the way i was

built.

know what else really hurts. To call relatives up and tell them in tears. They

act sympathetic, then call dad up to discuss and you dont hear a word for

months until these relatives come to visit and you overhear them laughing with

your father about it.

nan

> > >

> > > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> > I've

> > > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> > ask:

> > > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> > was 5

> > > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> > figure

> > > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> > >

> > > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> > > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> > tried

> > > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

> > person.

> > >

> > > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> > >

> > > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> > easel I

> > > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> > moving

> > > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> > The

> > > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> > > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> > >

> > > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> > > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> > up in

> > > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> > > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> > hanger,

> > > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> > > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> > > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> > >

> > > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told

> > my

> > > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> > > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> > > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

> > so I

> > > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

> > and

> > > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> > > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

> > was

> > > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> > (and a

> > > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> > > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> > >

> > > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

> with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

>

>

[Guest guest]

***I'd say half of her accusations were along the lines of " how do you

think that makes me look as a mother " ***

My nada was very concerned about what other people thought, though she

did not give a sh*t about what I thought. She refused for years to

take me to the doctor for my horrible cramps. Then one day, during

one of her regular eavesdropping sessions, she heard me on the phone.

My friend had put her mom on and her mom was offering to take me to

the doctor (I was 16). I said no because how would that work with

insurance and stuff? Nada admonished me later for talking to

someone's mother about it and I said " well she put her mom on the

phone; i didn't ask her to. "

THEN she took me to the doctor, because she was concerned that other

adults thought she was mean. Not because she cared. Not because she

loved me. Not because it hurt her to see me in pain.

-Deanna

[Guest guest]

>My nada was very concerned about what other people thought, though she

>did not give a sh*t about what I thought.

same with my nada

>THEN she took me to the doctor, because she was concerned that other

adults thought she was mean. Not because she cared. Not because she

>loved me. Not because it hurt her to see me in pain.

how awful !! I'm lucky, I wasn't sick or injured often..but my niece was at

nadas for the summer, and had horrible crams and nada told her to quit being

a baby...finally, after vomiting several times, dad suggested they take

niece to ER...turns out she had a ruptured ovarian cyst !!

Jackie

[Guest guest]

I just read in SBP that " normal " doesn't really describe anything but arbitrary

rules and ideas and notions. In SBP, it says that a better word to use instead

of " normal " would be " functional " . So, when we ask " is it normal? " we should

replace that with asking " was it functional? "

WTH

---------------------------------

Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

I've never rea'ly heard of using functional except the term " functional

alcoholic "

which means an alcoholic that still functions " normally " in society -hold down a

job, etc. but is still dependent on his " drug of choice "

there are a few other words better fit- " healthy " or " free " instead of " normal "

functional kind of seems just getting by enough to function.

nan

I just read in SBP that " normal " doesn't really describe anything but arbitrary

rules and ideas and notions. In SBP, it says that a better word to use instead

of " normal " would be " functional " . So, when we ask " is it normal? " we should

replace that with asking " was it functional? "

WTH

[Guest guest]

I'm not entirely clear on the difference between being a hypochondriac

vs histrionic behavior, or " mountain out of a molehill " , but my nada

was queen of both. When I lapse into my own tendencies of this

behavior, I berate or chastise myself for doing " nada things " . Oh, and

incidentally, guess what my 2nd EX husband is? NPD...AND

histrionic...duh! Guess I married same, as same is known, but is NOT

comfortable...just same. I thought I was a half way sensible and

intelligent woman. This is probably the number one most essential thing

we as KO need to do -- scrutinize all with whom we deal...be it

relationships or casual acquaintances...we just need to be hyper

vigilant. It's a shame we need to put each and every person to this

test, but I have burned and reburned myself immeasurable times and it's

about time this stops, once and for all!!!

> > > >

> > > > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> > > I've

> > > > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> > > ask:

> > > > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> > > was 5

> > > > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> > > figure

> > > > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> > > >

> > > > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > > > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because

since

> > > > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> > > tried

> > > > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a

non

> > > person.

> > > >

> > > > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> > > >

> > > > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> > > easel I

> > > > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> > > moving

> > > > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > > > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> > > The

> > > > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my

set

> > > > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> > > >

> > > > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad

flew,

> > > > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> > > up in

> > > > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> > > > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> > > hanger,

> > > > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> > > > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > > > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink

of

> > > > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> > > >

> > > > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I

told

> > > my

> > > > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> > > > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were

just

> > > > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

> > > so I

> > > > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was

5

> > > and

> > > > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had

to

> > > > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me.

I

> > > was

> > > > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> > > (and a

> > > > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that)

But

> > > > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> > > >

> > > > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > > > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> > > >

> > > > -Deanna

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

> > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> ***I'd say half of her accusations were along the lines of " how do

you

> think that makes me look as a mother " ***

>

> My nada was very concerned about what other people thought, though

she

> did not give a sh*t about what I thought. She refused for years to

> take me to the doctor for my horrible cramps. Then one day, during

> one of her regular eavesdropping sessions, she heard me on the

phone.

> My friend had put her mom on and her mom was offering to take me to

> the doctor (I was 16). I said no because how would that work with

> insurance and stuff? Nada admonished me later for talking to

> someone's mother about it and I said " well she put her mom on the

> phone; i didn't ask her to. "

>

> THEN she took me to the doctor, because she was concerned that other

> adults thought she was mean. Not because she cared. Not because

she

> loved me. Not because it hurt her to see me in pain.

>

> -Deanna

Deanna,

I can really resonate to your statement:

***I'd say half of her accusations were along the lines of " how do you

think that makes me look as a mother " ***

I think alot of our nadas are like that.. I was anorexic at 15, on

some level I didn't really feel deserving of food, or taking up space.

I remember her scolding me when I was emaciated because " when people

see you at temple, you make me look like a bad mother " .

She didn't take me to a psychiatrist until I was down to 85 pounds.

These stories of gross neglect are truly chilling. But we need to

talk about them because ironically, we feel guilty about NC.

You'd think that with the non-person status they gave us, they'd be

relieved by NC. Mayb their just worried about how they look or their

old age.

Amy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> ***I'd say half of her accusations were along the lines of " how do

you

> think that makes me look as a mother " ***

>

> My nada was very concerned about what other people thought, though

she

> did not give a sh*t about what I thought. She refused for years to

> take me to the doctor for my horrible cramps. Then one day, during

> one of her regular eavesdropping sessions, she heard me on the

phone.

> My friend had put her mom on and her mom was offering to take me to

> the doctor (I was 16). I said no because how would that work with

> insurance and stuff? Nada admonished me later for talking to

> someone's mother about it and I said " well she put her mom on the

> phone; i didn't ask her to. "

>

> THEN she took me to the doctor, because she was concerned that other

> adults thought she was mean. Not because she cared. Not because

she

> loved me. Not because it hurt her to see me in pain.

>

> -Deanna

Deanna,

I can really resonate to your statement:

***I'd say half of her accusations were along the lines of " how do you

think that makes me look as a mother " ***

I think alot of our nadas are like that.. I was anorexic at 15, on

some level I didn't really feel deserving of food, or taking up space.

I remember her scolding me when I was emaciated because " when people

see you at temple, you make me look like a bad mother " .

She didn't take me to a psychiatrist until I was down to 85 pounds.

These stories of gross neglect are truly chilling. But we need to

talk about them because ironically, we feel guilty about NC.

You'd think that with the non-person status they gave us, they'd be

relieved by NC. Mayb their just worried about how they look or their

old age.

Amy

>

[Guest guest]

Wow...you said it all... " Just get over " ...it seems that my fiance can't

cope with me when I start to either inform him of the things my mom used

to do or show those tendencies myself (I guess you call them fleas). I

rather think we are all in a special sorority or " secret society " who

use this wonderful group to help see us through all this. I know I have

had a setback of sorts in recent days and decided to rejoin after a 10

yr hiatus. This is BETTER than any therapy for me...I've been

there/done that all too often and this forum is replete with those of us

who have experienced " it " full on. Nothing is better than experience,

I'd say.

As to being " criminal " uh ha...oh yesssssss. One woman whose son I

went to high school with recently lost him to Lou Gerhig's disease...I

called her to express my condolences and she expressed hers back at me

for having had to endure my nada's craziness. I didn't think she

knew...and I grad in '63 !!!!!!! Eddie died about 3 yrs ago. Although

I don't know if it would be called a boundary issue for all those folks

that knew about my nada and said nothing. Where were all these people

that KNEW and here I had to " wing it " all by myself? I was an only

child, to boot, and my poor hapless Dad was unable to protect me, cuz as

someone once said " How the hell did you really expect him to have ever

'been there' for you, if he couldn't BE THERE for himself? " Good point,

I'd say. Nada was too formidable for ANYONE.

>

> I love how all of our families expect us to " just get over " this

> stuff. These stories are so horrible. They are criminal!

>

> -Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

Jae - one of the things about BPD is that these traits tend to overlap

with NPD. it sounds as though your nada most definitely had a

narcissistic streak. my aunt is like that. what awful things to say to

a child - i'm so sorry you had to hear all that nonsense. who

befriends anybody based on how pretty they are? i too, received a lot

of the " she's SO good to her mom, takes care of her, blah, blah,

blah " . all b.s.

as far as being raised by a bpd hypochondriac - a LOT of us here have

nadas like that. it's pretty common and it's another manipulation to

get the attention on them. confusing for me? no. but irritating as

hell. it was pathetic to see her complain about ALL the numerous

diseases she said to have, that she should have been dead years ago,

and how she went 281 days without eating. ridiculous. fortunately, i

was born very healthy and the times when i did have health concerns

(bladder infections, etc) i was old enough to get an appointment at

planned parenthood and take care of it myself. (though, she did

threaten to give me a gynological exam - i guess being a medical

assistant gives you authority to do so!) in fact, she told me it was

MY problem and to " figure it out " . nice for a fourteen year old,

right? anyway, as a result, i do suffer a small degree of hypochondria

myself - only because i'm so terrified of getting ill that i will have

to pay outrageous medical bills (i have no insurance).

i hope you haven't suffered too much as a result of your nada's lame

opinions. you seem to have survived pretty well - as we all have. a

big applaud to you!

love,

christine.

> > > >

> > > > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> > > I've

> > > > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> > > ask:

> > > > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> > > was 5

> > > > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> > > figure

> > > > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> > > >

> > > > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > > > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> > > > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> > > tried

> > > > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

> > > person.

> > > >

> > > > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> > > >

> > > > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> > > easel I

> > > > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> > > moving

> > > > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > > > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> > > The

> > > > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> > > > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> > > >

> > > > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> > > > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> > > up in

> > > > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> > > > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> > > hanger,

> > > > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> > > > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > > > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> > > > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> > > >

> > > > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told

> > > my

> > > > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> > > > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> > > > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

> > > so I

> > > > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

> > > and

> > > > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> > > > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

> > > was

> > > > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> > > (and a

> > > > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> > > > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> > > >

> > > > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > > > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> > > >

> > > > -Deanna

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

> > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

That is a good suggestion. Somewhere along the line I was taught to

use the word 'healthy' - i.e. Is this healthy?

Sylvia

>

> I just read in SBP that " normal " doesn't really describe anything

but arbitrary rules and ideas and notions. In SBP, it says that a

better word to use instead of " normal " would be " functional " . So,

when we ask " is it normal? " we should replace that with asking " was

it functional? "

>

> WTH

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?

> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well i dont attend funerals at all never have. No cards, nothing. They amean

nothing more to me than mere aquantances. Dad keeps bringing up small talk

about relatives and cousins in small talk and it irritates me to no end how he

thinks i should " belong " when i have obviously been counted out. I mean is

it " healthy to believe you belong if they treat you as a sacrificial lamb. I do

need to pick up a copy of those x-rays and send them as a greeting card one

of these days. If i could only think of a catchy phrase.

I was diagnosed with PTSD two weeks ago. Told Dishrag Dad about it and

why. No response but he sends me other emails going on about my cousins i

asked hm not to tell me about. It's frustrating. no matter what or how i react.

Dad just brushes it off, with an " ohhhhhhh " (disbelief) or gets irritatied

because

i cry and whine about how much i am " suffering' you are damn right i am

suffering. ALONE!

nan

> > > >

> > > > Since my therapist suggested BPD, and since I went NC with nada,

> > > I've

> > > > had some memories crop up. I know this is not the best group to

> > > ask:

> > > > is this normal? But I have remembered a few things from when I

> > > was 5

> > > > that I thought were crappy at the time, but I couldn't really

> > > figure

> > > > out if I had the " right " to say " hey, that was wrong. "

> > > >

> > > > I made an outline of the upsetting things in my childhood and

> > > > adulthood, in an attempt to get them out of my head because since

> > > > going NC, I'm having trouble sleeping and my mind is racing. I

> > > tried

> > > > to lump stuff into categories, and one was just feeling like a non

> > > person.

> > > >

> > > > Here are 3 incidents from being 5 that really bugged me.

> > > >

> > > > 1) When we moved 30 minutes away, I was told that the child's

> > > easel I

> > > > had gotten 6 months earlier from an aunt " would not fit " in the

> > > moving

> > > > truck (or the new house?) and that they had to throw it out. I

> > > > protested, as I loved it! She threw it away and when we moved.

> > > The

> > > > house we moved into was twice the size. I think she thought my set

> > > > was too messy or...who knows? I thought this was really unfair.

> > > >

> > > > 2) They took me on a plane ride in a tiny plane that my dad flew,

> > > > although he was not a pilot by trade. Like a good girl, I threw

> > > up in

> > > > the bag they gave me. I think I threw up twice. After landing, I

> > > > asked if I could have a soda out of the fridge that was in the

> > > hanger,

> > > > and they said no, those don't belong to us. I had to endure a 40

> > > > minute drive home after probably 30 minutes on the plane after

> > > > vomiting, and they were too cheap/didn't care to get me a drink of

> > > > water or something to wash out the vile taste.

> > > >

> > > > 3) We were visiting on vacation at a relative's ranch, and I told

> > > my

> > > > nada I had to use the bathroom. She told me to wait. I told her

> > > > again that I REALLY had to go. She said in a minute. We were just

> > > > standing there talking to the relative. Then I crapped my pants,

> > > so I

> > > > told her I crapped my pants, which was so humiliating, as I was 5

> > > and

> > > > a half years old. She told me AGAIN to wait a minute, and I had to

> > > > walk around with crap in my pants until she decided to take me. I

> > > was

> > > > wearing bloomers, and I remember the feel of this in my shorts.

> > > (and a

> > > > part of me says, well at least she didn't shame you for that) But

> > > > there was no " I'm sorry honey " or nothin.

> > > >

> > > > Are these normal stories? Do normal kids have these types of

> > > > experiences? Do these things sound upsetting to you guys?

> > > >

> > > > -Deanna

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

> > with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

> >

> >