Re: Who am I now?

[Guest guest]

" I just realized that this 'with me or against me' mentality has completely

formed the way I think of friends " I see where you're coming from; and it

takes big steps and a lot of humility to learn to stop that. But it can,

and I'm sure it has, been done; otherwise you'd be too proud to even say all

of what you just did.

God bless you & Good for you!!

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of doticus

Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:28 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Who am I now?

Here's one that I just thought of the other day. When I was young, my mother

would split pretty much everyone and once someone was split black, it was

very hard to be redeemed. I just realized that this 'with me or against me'

mentality has completely formed the way I think of friends. I am often

worried that because I am friends with someone, other friends of mine might

not like that. For instance, if there are two people I know who don't get

along, I think that they cannot both want to be friends with me.

I also used to worry that my friends were not 'cool' enough to be accepted

by others, which meant that they would stop being friends with me (which I

perceive as a version of splitting black). When I was in college, I even

remember having a conversation with a very good friend of mine and saying I

couldn't believe she was my friend because she was so cool and couldn't

possibly enjoy hanging out with someone as not cool as me.

Very weird. I hope this made sense.

is

PS - Vi, congratulations!

---------------------------------

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.

Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

[Guest guest]

I fall into both categories, personally.

> >

> > Here's one that I just thought of the other day. When I was

young,

> my mother would split pretty much everyone and once someone was

split

> black, it was very hard to be redeemed. I just realized that this

> 'with me or against me' mentality has completely formed the way I

> think of friends. I am often worried that because I am friends with

> someone, other friends of mine might not like that. For instance,

if

> there are two people I know who don't get along, I think that they

> cannot both want to be friends with me.

> >

> > I also used to worry that my friends were not 'cool' enough to be

> accepted by others, which meant that they would stop being friends

> with me (which I perceive as a version of splitting black). When I

> was in college, I even remember having a conversation with a very

good

> friend of mine and saying I couldn't believe she was my friend

because

> she was so cool and couldn't possibly enjoy hanging out with

someone

> as not cool as me.

> >

> > Very weird. I hope this made sense.

> >

> > is

> >

> > PS - Vi, congratulations!

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your

story.

> > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

sara, that's really funny. it speaks volumes to not being allowed to

have boundaries!

k8

> > >

> > > Hi Deanna,

> > > You are very much NOT alone. I can totally relate to much of

> what

> > > you say:

> > >

> > > I think I've learned to stress and

> > > > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has

> an

> > > > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> > >

> > > I remember how in college I decided not to pledge a sorority.

> My

> > > nada was in tears when I told her I had missed pledge week

> (well, I

> > > went to such a nerdy school anyway that didn't mean much). She

> > > thought I had ruined my life. I was paralyzed and shocked. For

> > > crying out loud, she had never even SAID she wanted me to do

> this,

> > > and yet when I decided not to I had ruined both of our lives?

> WTF?

> > >

> > > Mixed up in this was the notion that she actually had a " plan "

> for

> > > my life. So when I chose a particular path in grad school , she

> > > said " but you weren't supposed to do that, you were supposed to

> go

> > > and work and get your second degree part-time! " There was no

> room

> > > for me to say anything - just to, as you say, freak out that I

> had

> > > deviated from some lunatic's fantasies for me which SHE probably

> > > hadn't even given any thought to.

> > > >

> > > > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels

> weird.

> > > What

> > > > is it like to be peaceful?

> > >

> > > It is absolutely great. My life is so easy now. Oh, there are

> > > issues, but my home is safe, and I don't worry about being

> screamed

> > > at whenever I come through the door or pick up the phone. My

> > > friends have slowly changed, and now they are laid-back people

> who

> > > don't have regular crises, aren't threatened by me, and who I

> can

> > > really share my problems with if i need to. Life is so much

> better.

> > >

> > > > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a

> couple

> > > > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying,

> rereading

> > > Not

> > > > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day

> to

> > > day

> > > > and carrying it all the way through in my head.

> > >

> > > LOL = my wonderful husband was born in Iran and my nada totally

> > > whipped out that book. Luckily I already had enough distance

> from

> > > her by the time I met him to make the break.

> > >

> > > Now, I know that's not a capital crime

> > > > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > > > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it

> will

> > > > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

> > > that. "

> > >

> > > I KNOW, I KNOW! I can't get anywhere close to her, even a phone

> > > conversation is too dangerous because that loss of hope rushes

> in.

> > > It takes so much work to get to a place where we expect life to

> be

> > > good.

> > >

> > > Hang in there,

> > > Sara

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, you're being a " good girl " and " respecting " them and their

reaction to that is to laugh at you and further humiliate you for

being such a tool. Wow! That really triggered me. It just never

feels safe. We deserve to feel safe!

-Deanna

>

> So weird! One of my earliest memories - I must have been about

> three - is asking my parents if I was allowed to go to the

> bathroom. They laughed their heads off, but for someone reason I

> was pretty convinced I wasn't allowed to...

>

> Sara

[Guest guest]

,

You said:

<<I apologized to my daughter for everything, from the bottom of my

heart. I explained that the majority of those faults about me were

from the way I was conditioned; and that I needed to be told in the

near future, if I am going the wrong route " .>>

Bless you for finding the strength to bridge that gap. I wish you

were my mom.

>

> " my mother's until I left home and ended our relationship. It's

two years

> later and I am

> STILL coming to terms with how distorted my thinking actually is

because of

> her. "

>

>

>

> I found myself doing many of the same things my mother did;

looking back at

> my first marriage; and especially when my daughter moved out the

first time;

> just to get away from me; but I looked back at our differences;

and said to

> myself, " self, what did you wish your mother would have done to

fix your

> relationship with her? " and I apologized to my daughter for

everything, from

> the bottom of my heart. I explained that the majority of those

faults about

> me were from the way I was conditioned; and that I needed to be

told in the

> near future, if I am going the wrong route " . My daughter did

appreciate

> this; and I did tell her that an apology; and a show of actual

change that

> would collate with that apology was always what I wanted and never

got; and

> that I was completely crushed when I found it would never occur at

her

> death. I told her that I do not want that to happen to my

daughter; or to

> me; because I want my girl and I to have a close relationship

until I'm

> finally gone; I want to help her with her kids, so that she will

not have to

> worry about childcare; I want to help her to live on her own; so

that she

> will not have to depend on the first a**ho** that will take her

in; knock

> her up; and treat her like crap; as I went through.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

> [mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of anya52388

> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:21 AM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: Re: Who am I now?

>

>

>

>

> I feel like I didn't realize the extent of how I had molded myself

to fit

> some sort of need of

> my mother's until I left home and ended our relationship. It's two

years

> later and I am

> STILL coming to terms with how distorted my thinking actually is

because of

> her. I find

> myself looking for stability anywhere I can get it. I will eat the

same

> dinner night after

> night, because it's stable, constant, somthing I created, somethin

in my

> control. Everyone

> comments on how mature and put together I am, but what they don't

realize is

> that I fell

> like I don't even know myself, I have no IDEA who I am. My

childhood wasn't

> spent learning

> about myself, it was wasted on getting someone else's needs met. I

am just

> realizing these

> things now. The progress I have made is amazing, but I feel like

there is so

> much damage,

> and that the progress comes in such minute increments.

>

> I feel like I never had a mother-daughter relationship with my

mom, or more

> accurately, I

> kind of just phased out my hopes and expectations of having one at

a young

> age. Her

> touch made me cringe, because I associated her touching me with

physical

> violence. At the

> time I left home, we had not hugged in over 5 years. After I left,

friends

> would ask me if I

> missed her. I never did. I longed for the " fixed " mother, the " all

better "

> mother that I

> created in my head. I never missed the real one that I had. It

makes me feel

> badly to say so

> ,but I think of her as a monster. She sucks the life out of

people, destroys

> them. leaves

> them broken. I feel sorry for her victims.

>

> Anya

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I was kept isolated from the world...and also, moving 13 times

in the first 13 years of my life had got me to the point of

psychological distance from potential friends. I hung out with people,

but it stayed shallow.

But some of it was that I'd actualy been pretty nerdy in middle

school, and been fairly viciously bullied and shunned at three

different schools. And yes, a LOT of that, I do chalk up to being

taught absolutely zero social skills as a child (except how to

desperately please people--an obvious " target-me " sign), as well as

the misdirection my mom led me on, fashion and appearance-wise. A

couple weeks ago, there were posts about nadas messing up KO's

appearances growing up, and I definitely had a lot of that. So by high

school, though I had fun with people, I never went after friendships

with the people I actually liked--I'd given up all hope of being their

equals. I was in a mental ghetto, just my nada and me, and even

cool/normal/alternative kids were way out of my reach, or so it seemed

to me.

Love,

Vi

> >

> > Here's one that I just thought of the other day. When I was young,

> my mother would split pretty much everyone and once someone was split

> black, it was very hard to be redeemed. I just realized that this

> 'with me or against me' mentality has completely formed the way I

> think of friends. I am often worried that because I am friends with

> someone, other friends of mine might not like that. For instance, if

> there are two people I know who don't get along, I think that they

> cannot both want to be friends with me.

> >

> > I also used to worry that my friends were not 'cool' enough to be

> accepted by others, which meant that they would stop being friends

> with me (which I perceive as a version of splitting black). When I

> was in college, I even remember having a conversation with a very good

> friend of mine and saying I couldn't believe she was my friend because

> she was so cool and couldn't possibly enjoy hanging out with someone

> as not cool as me.

> >

> > Very weird. I hope this made sense.

> >

> > is

> >

> > PS - Vi, congratulations!

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your

story.

> > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Vi,

Great post. I had a similar situation at a pool hall/bar with a

female friend and her husband. This dude kept chatting us up, and

told us how he just got out of prison. We believed him. He was

super scary, and stuck out like a sore, antisocial thumb! Other women

at the bar had complained and the bouncer came to him when he was with

us and nicely asked him to leave.

Once he left, I figured out exactly where I would run and hide in that

bar when he returned with a gun. A few minutes later I jokingly asked

my friend about it, and she too had already planned where she would

go, and she told me her plan. I asked her husband and he hadn't given

it a second thought. So I thought it was a female thing. But NOW (I

haven't seen her in years) I am remembering her mother's antics and

smothering and judging and crying and being adopted with no family but

MY ONLY DAUGHTER and holy crap...she was very BPD. The husband had a

great family, BTW.

So I can completely relate to the pool thing. It can be so hard to

just relax. I will look into that book.

My two months of NC have been as follows: Immediately upon hanging up

and unplugging phone, shakes went away (I had yelled out a lot of

anger). However, my mind continued to race. I double locked my door.

Fully expecting she would eventually come by (40 minutes away). So

for weeks I could not even come close to having a restful sleep with

worry of contact, of literal forced contact, of my father maybe coming

over and MAKING me make up with her. Every time I leave the house, or

drive up into parking lot, scanning for their car. And the anger.

Years of pent up rage surfacing, I wrote a 3 page outline of all the

things I hated her for, including crazy abandonment crap as I got

older (not present when I was a kid as far as I could see).

So I was raging and rationalizing and defending and my brain was

non-stop nada-thoughts 24 hours a day. It was pretty miserable. I

could not shut it off. And my stomach in constant knots. One brief

thought of capitulating would literally hit me in the gut, as if my

body was saying " NO WAY! "

I started to write a story from my outline, and I lost steam, after

covering one area. I was still angry, but not crazy angry. Still

obsessing, but a little less. I started to feel more power as she

mailed me a generic apology (she doesn't know why, I'm sure). Felt

kind of ha ha on you. Then my brother saying I needed a spanking.

More rage, but I didn't engage with him.

Pressure from SIL to FOR GOD'S SAKE just send her a mother's day card,

any card. NO.

Guilt, guilt, worry, worry, how long will they let me do this? It's

only a matter of time before I capitulate. Or is it? Moments, so

brief of freedom and possibility. Got drunk once and could really

feel it then. Maybe I can leave town and really be away from her.

Maybe I can be calm. Maybe I don't have to do this again.

Then more mail from her " please talk to me " . Now the anger is mostly

gone, and I feel kinda sad for her. However, the thought of seeing or

(ugh) touching her again makes me want to puke. I know it would

destroy me.

Was feeling bad for dad til he tried to trick me by addressing a card

SHE sent to me. Then I'm mad again. Stepping back and seeing my role

in this family, and not liking it. More pressure from brother.

Sleeping better now, less anxiety but still thinking nada/posting nada

very, very often. But much less anxious. Then where I got to on that

post...gee maybe I am a jerk....NO!

Anywho, that's where I am.

-Deanna

>

> Terribly long...you have been warned...

>

> Deanna,

>

> Pretty much every time you post, I wonder if we had the same

> nada...your post rang like every bell for me. It's exactly how I feel

> right now. Two weeks NC, and wondering when the drama is really going

> to start. Right now my nada, according to my dad, is taking NC as a

> chance to work on herself...supposedly. Problem is, the breakthroughs

> dad reports are realizations she's had over and over, about her own

> childhood. How are they breakthroughs if she's had them already? They

> sound like excuses at this point. So I wonder when the novelty of this

> stab at health will pall for her (everything she's interested in palls

> for her when it starts requiring a committment), and when she will

> have had enough and start demanding me back. When it will sink in to

> her head that I went NC not so that she could have wonderful

> realizations, but so that I could get the hell away from her for good.

> I give it another couple of weeks before the hoovering begins.

>

> In the meantime, like you said, how the heck do you live, having

> regained for yourself that 60% or so of life-energy that nada

> requisitioned at birth, through her erratic abuse? Not so much what to

> do with my time, there's always something. But what to do with my

> mind. I read an interesting article recently by the author of " Blink "

> about " wasted cycles " of human effort, that were instead put into

> things like Flikr and Facebook and blogs. I think KO's have more

> cycles, as we operate at this level of continuous red alert--like a

> car idling too high. And our cycles go into worry and " if/thens " and

> obsessive personal disaster-preparedness. And even though I've gone

> NC, I still have this high idling and this obsessive strategizing

> about what I'd do if so-and-so random person suddenly verbally

> attacked me.

>

> Forgive the long post, please, let just me say an example. Today I

> went to read by the pool. I've been reading " Trauma And Recovery " by

> Judith Herman, which if you haven't read, Deanna, you might find

> enlightening. It talks about post traumatic stress disorder, which I

> feel that I have. As I got ready to lay out, I imagined a man who was

> playing tennis near the pool deciding to attack me, and how I'd call

> for help. While laying by the pool, one of the children began to shout

> in mock-argument with her aunt--I went on red alert for their safety.

> As the aunt came over to ask me for the time, I visualized how she

> must be judging me and came to my own mental defense. I just watched

> all these mental processes, this constant appraisal of everyone as a

> potential abuser, and went on to read about how that was a trait of

> PTSD. Nothing like object lessons, eh? I couldn't even lay by the pool

> calmly--it was a risk I took, just like everything else. It wasn't

> relaxing, it was a sortie into unsafe territory. Everything feels that

> way for me.

>

> Today I learned that I have in fact got the internship at the city

> newspaper. I'll be responsible for the arts and entertainment section

> of the annual publication for newcomers. This is a very big deal for

> me, and a sort of professional ecstasy fought inside me with the

> age-old " what's the catch? " feeling. Like you said, " so what if it's

> good now? it will eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better

> prepare for that. " Someone will inevitably try to victimize me, and

> I'll have to fight AGAIN. It doesn't help that I have been victimized

> by more than just my nada, both as a child and in my adult life, and

> had the original trauma compounded with abusive relationships and

> hostility from people I turned to for help. So I had to sit in my car,

> in the newspaper parking lot, and fight for the space inside myself to

> feel good about this! To be able to say, " yes, this rocks, and

> nobody's going to take it away, and the boss isn't going to

> sadistically demean me, and it will turn out well, and it will be a

> great thing to have done. " And I knew I was battling the " ha-ha,

> you're doomed! " messages my nada took bitter pleasure in instilling

in me.

>

> Sorry about the novel here. Seriously, Deanna, not to impose on your

> process, but so much of what you relate helps me feel less crazy and

> alone. I would be very interested in hearing more about how you feel

> right now...how these two months have gone for you...

>

>

> Love,

> Vi

[Guest guest]

Yes Letty, such a fabulous post. Captured it exactly. Thanks.

-Deanna

> > >

> > > Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am I? "

> > >

> > > I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking

> > about

> > > stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still there.

> > My

> > > nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> > > telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress and

> > > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> > > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> > >

> > > Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

> > classes

> > > in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak

> > out or

> > > tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

> > >

> > > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels weird.

> > What

> > > is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something without

> > > mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I keep

> > > this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course, after

> > all

> > > this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

> > things

> > > I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with

> > almost

> > > no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man, what

> > is

> > > wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

> > >

> > > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> > > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying, rereading

> > Not

> > > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day to

> > day

> > > and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

> > telling

> > > her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

> > >

> > > And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and

> > start

> > > dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And thinking

> > > maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> > > overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to just

> > > make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> > > taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for

> > long.

> > >

> > > It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just

> > gain

> > > it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital

> > crime

> > > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> > > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

> > that. "

> > > Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

> > >

> > > Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me ill.

> > I

> > > feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down

> > like a

> > > fly with just one phone call.

> > >

> > > I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Um, just to clarify, I was *super* cool in college (president of sorority

council, no less!)...it was also a very valuable lesson in how those who are

'cool' are actual, normal people as well! I went to a place that was very

accepting and I would say the vast majority of people were considered cool. It

was a good place to be, unless, of course, you got kicked out for partying too

much....

What did help was being away from my mother and father. That meant I could

make my own decisions and do what I wanted, when I wanted. My fashion sense

developed exponentially (I had been voted 'Worst Dressed' in my high school). I

even failed a course my freshman year! It was kind of liberating after years of

fearing getting anything below an A. The longer I stayed away, the better I

felt and in my second year, I didn't even go home at Christmas (I had a job) or

for the summer. It felt good to be on my own and I had people around me who

were supportive and fun. Very valuable experience. Unfortunately, going to

grad school with a lot of socially inept jerks undid a lot of the good, but

college was still very helpful for me.

is

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[Guest guest]

Hi Vi,

Well, it's a bit like that joke Woody uses at the start of Annie Hall: I

wouldn't want to be part of any club that would have me as a member. I think

that I've cured myself of that from the friendship standpoint (and college was

very helpful) but I'm still having a LOT of problems applying that to

relationships. For the past 4-5 years I have always been too afraid of actually

going after guys that I find attractive and instead go after the ones who I

think will bother to date me. This has led to some absolute catastrophes and

some bad decisions, but not much happiness for me. I haven't really been on a

date or even bothered looking for a year, which has been helpful from the

standpoint of thinking all this stuff over, but I have no idea how I will be

able to get out of it. I am also constantly afraid of winding up in another

catastrophe (he was NPD or Antisocial or SOMETHING and definitely an

alcoholic...plus it was not a real relationship...basically he saw

that I had no boundaries and stomped all over me). I am constantly amazed that

so many people on this list seem to be happily married and I have no idea how

you did it.

is

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[Guest guest]

Okay, WHOA, on the topic of going to the bathroom...just remembered something.

I don't go unless someone else has to, like if we are on a road trip. I will

never take the time to say 'I need to go.' Like I'm not so important to merit a

bathroom break. Hm. Is this related?

is

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[Guest guest]

Hi is

You wrote:

{ I am constantly amazed that so many people on this list seem to be

happily married and I have no idea how you did it.}

and

{For the past 4-5 years I have always been too afraid of actually

going after guys that I find attractive and instead go after the

ones who I think will bother to date me. This has led to some

absolute catastrophes and some bad decisions, but not much happiness

for me}

I did it by finally giving myself the credit I deserve. I have

struggled my whole life to 'fit in'. I have always been

intelligent, not ugly, and kind to others, but for some reason I

always felt I was 'damaged goods' and thus not worthy of a

relationship with a good man. I also dated a LOT of guys who were

not good enough for me, but because I thought I loved them so much,

I let their atrocious behavior and choices slide(I basically treated

them like I treated my BP mom). I settled for much less than I

should have. You need to KNOW that you are a WORTHY individual that

deserves another WORTHY individual. Don't go after those who

would 'tolerate' dating you. When you are ready, reach for the

highest bar. Don't ever settle for anything less than what you

deserve. Though it may seem few and far between, good men are out

there--and probably more would date you than you think. If you

truly beleive in yourself--YOU MUST KNOW YOU ARE WORTH IT--you will

project that confidence, and it will be easier to find a good man.

Work on YOU first and the rest will follow. If you set good

boundaries, you won't attract the wrong guys. And if you don't set

good boundaries, the nice guys won't date you. Good guys respect

woman who respect themselves and have healthy boundaries.

It sounds like you have made a LOT of progress with your

friendships, so I have no doubt you can make progress with your

relationships too.

>

> Hi Vi,

>

> Well, it's a bit like that joke Woody uses at the start of

Annie Hall: I wouldn't want to be part of any club that would have

me as a member. I think that I've cured myself of that from the

friendship standpoint (and college was very helpful) but I'm still

having a LOT of problems applying that to relationships. For the

past 4-5 years I have always been too afraid of actually going after

guys that I find attractive and instead go after the ones who I

think will bother to date me. This has led to some absolute

catastrophes and some bad decisions, but not much happiness for me.

I haven't really been on a date or even bothered looking for a year,

which has been helpful from the standpoint of thinking all this

stuff over, but I have no idea how I will be able to get out of it.

I am also constantly afraid of winding up in another catastrophe (he

was NPD or Antisocial or SOMETHING and definitely an

alcoholic...plus it was not a real relationship...basically he saw

> that I had no boundaries and stomped all over me). I am

constantly amazed that so many people on this list seem to be

happily married and I have no idea how you did it.

>

> is

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hah, I can relate on the dating thing is! It's one thing to know

what " bad " behaviors to be watching out for (from extensive

experience!), but where the heck do you learn how to tell that a guy

is GOOD? What characteristics does he show? People say general things

like " trustworthiness " and " consideration " , as though I have any idea

what it looks like when a guy is those things. I've probably walked

right by a lot of good guys, not knowing what their behavior was

telling me.

I'd like to date a guy again sometime, too. I haven't been with a

boyfriend in three years. I'm relatively attractive, smart, mature,

kind-hearted, fun, blah blah, all the things that are supposed to have

people wanting you. But the very few guys that seem to notice me are

yucky. Most of the others are a lot younger, and what's considered

attractive is slightly different to them. And I don't really meet

single guys my age, I don't know where they are. So I'm sorta stuck. I

take classes, volunteer, and now have an internship; I'm still looking

for a job. So I'm definitely out there. Any other suggestions?

" For the past 4-5 years I have always been too afraid of actually

going after guys that I find attractive and instead go after the ones

who I think will bother to date me. This has led to some absolute

catastrophes and some bad decisions, but not much happiness for me. "

That's a tough situation. I bet a lot of the guys you like would like

you back, is. I wonder if that's how we offer ourselves a little

confidence--treat ourselves to the " sure bets " , only it always

backfires with boredom and unhappiness. I'm trying to get out of that too.

Best of luck...

Love,

Vi