Re: Who am I now?

June 11, 2007

Terribly long...you have been warned...

Deanna,

Pretty much every time you post, I wonder if we had the same

nada...your post rang like every bell for me. It's exactly how I feel

right now. Two weeks NC, and wondering when the drama is really going

to start. Right now my nada, according to my dad, is taking NC as a

chance to work on herself...supposedly. Problem is, the breakthroughs

dad reports are realizations she's had over and over, about her own

childhood. How are they breakthroughs if she's had them already? They

sound like excuses at this point. So I wonder when the novelty of this

stab at health will pall for her (everything she's interested in palls

for her when it starts requiring a committment), and when she will

have had enough and start demanding me back. When it will sink in to

her head that I went NC not so that she could have wonderful

realizations, but so that I could get the hell away from her for good.

I give it another couple of weeks before the hoovering begins.

In the meantime, like you said, how the heck do you live, having

regained for yourself that 60% or so of life-energy that nada

requisitioned at birth, through her erratic abuse? Not so much what to

do with my time, there's always something. But what to do with my

mind. I read an interesting article recently by the author of " Blink "

about " wasted cycles " of human effort, that were instead put into

things like Flikr and Facebook and blogs. I think KO's have more

cycles, as we operate at this level of continuous red alert--like a

car idling too high. And our cycles go into worry and " if/thens " and

obsessive personal disaster-preparedness. And even though I've gone

NC, I still have this high idling and this obsessive strategizing

about what I'd do if so-and-so random person suddenly verbally

attacked me.

Forgive the long post, please, let just me say an example. Today I

went to read by the pool. I've been reading " Trauma And Recovery " by

Judith Herman, which if you haven't read, Deanna, you might find

enlightening. It talks about post traumatic stress disorder, which I

feel that I have. As I got ready to lay out, I imagined a man who was

playing tennis near the pool deciding to attack me, and how I'd call

for help. While laying by the pool, one of the children began to shout

in mock-argument with her aunt--I went on red alert for their safety.

As the aunt came over to ask me for the time, I visualized how she

must be judging me and came to my own mental defense. I just watched

all these mental processes, this constant appraisal of everyone as a

potential abuser, and went on to read about how that was a trait of

PTSD. Nothing like object lessons, eh? I couldn't even lay by the pool

calmly--it was a risk I took, just like everything else. It wasn't

relaxing, it was a sortie into unsafe territory. Everything feels that

way for me.

Today I learned that I have in fact got the internship at the city

newspaper. I'll be responsible for the arts and entertainment section

of the annual publication for newcomers. This is a very big deal for

me, and a sort of professional ecstasy fought inside me with the

age-old " what's the catch? " feeling. Like you said, " so what if it's

good now? it will eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better

prepare for that. " Someone will inevitably try to victimize me, and

I'll have to fight AGAIN. It doesn't help that I have been victimized

by more than just my nada, both as a child and in my adult life, and

had the original trauma compounded with abusive relationships and

hostility from people I turned to for help. So I had to sit in my car,

in the newspaper parking lot, and fight for the space inside myself to

feel good about this! To be able to say, " yes, this rocks, and

nobody's going to take it away, and the boss isn't going to

sadistically demean me, and it will turn out well, and it will be a

great thing to have done. " And I knew I was battling the " ha-ha,

you're doomed! " messages my nada took bitter pleasure in instilling in me.

Sorry about the novel here. Seriously, Deanna, not to impose on your

process, but so much of what you relate helps me feel less crazy and

alone. I would be very interested in hearing more about how you feel

right now...how these two months have gone for you...

Love,

Vi

>

> Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am I? "

>

> I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking about

> stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still there. My

> nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress and

> worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

>

> Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra classes

> in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak out or

> tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

>

> So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels weird. What

> is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something without

> mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I keep

> this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course, after all

> this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the things

> I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with almost

> no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man, what is

> wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

>

> Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying, rereading Not

> Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day to day

> and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of telling

> her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

>

> And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and start

> dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And thinking

> maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to just

> make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for long.

>

> It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just gain

> it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital crime

> to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for that. "

> Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

>

> Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me ill. I

> feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down like a

> fly with just one phone call.

>

> I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

>

> -Deanna

>

June 11, 2007

I can relate. I'm currently NC, but I don't think nada knows it yet.

She's so self-absorbed anyway, it will take her several weeks to

figure out I am gone. I am, however, dreading getting cornered and

having to tell the truth (or whatever boundary-filled version of the

truth she can handle that day). I am afraid that all that I have

learned over the last couple of weeks (coping skills, boundaries,

understanding myself and how/why I do things) will go out the window

with that conversation. I don't want to lose this person I just

found, and it sounds like you can identify with that feeling.

I am waiting for my copy of UBM to arrive, but from what I'm

understanding about the types, mine is a (sometimes high-

functioning) hermit/witch, as well. Let's just reflect on those two

words: Hermit and Witch

Those words have some very ugly connotations, and for good reason.

What value can a hermit add to any conversation about dating or love

when they don't leave the house? How can a witch build others'

confidence when she's only looking for the next opportunity to cast

a spell that benefits her?

KOs, on the other hand, are real people; once upon a time, we were

real children. In either case, we have real thoughts, feelings, and

emotions. The best part is that (after years of being taught

otherwise) we know they belong solely to US, and we have a right to

them. You also have a right to the peace you are enjoying now, and

the right to protect yourself from dangerous influencse of any kind.

You've gotten used to a constant negative monologue running over

everything you say and do -- it's all you knew, so it's weird that

it's gone. But sometimes change is a very, very, good thing.

*hugs*

>

> Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am I? "

>

> I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking

about

> stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still there.

My

> nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress and

> worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

>

> Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

classes

> in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak

out or

> tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

>

> So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels weird.

What

> is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something without

> mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I keep

> this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course, after

all

> this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

things

> I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with

almost

> no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man, what

is

> wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

>

> Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying, rereading

Not

> Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day to

day

> and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

telling

> her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

>

> And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and

start

> dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And thinking

> maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to just

> make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for

long.

>

> It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just

gain

> it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital

crime

> to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

that. "

> Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

>

> Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me ill.

I

> feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down

like a

> fly with just one phone call.

>

> I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

>

> -Deanna

>

June 11, 2007

CONGRATULATIONS, VI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> >

> > Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am

I? "

> >

> > I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking

about

> > stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still

there. My

> > nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> > telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress

and

> > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> >

> > Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

classes

> > in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak

out or

> > tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

> >

> > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels

weird. What

> > is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something

without

> > mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I

keep

> > this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course,

after all

> > this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

things

> > I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with

almost

> > no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man,

what is

> > wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

> >

> > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying,

rereading Not

> > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day

to day

> > and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

telling

> > her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

> >

> > And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and

start

> > dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And

thinking

> > maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> > overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to

just

> > make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> > taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for

long.

> >

> > It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just

gain

> > it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital

crime

> > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

that. "

> > Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

> >

> > Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me

ill. I

> > feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down

like a

> > fly with just one phone call.

> >

> > I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

> >

> > -Deanna

> >

>

June 11, 2007

Hello -

The first part of your post my eye fell was the end, " I'm babbling.

Can anyone relate? "

And I thought, of course I can relate! I always babble

But then I read the rest and found I could relate to it, too.

Here's the thing. My folks were so very smothering that when I was a

kid it literally never occurred to me that I could have a character

trait they did not share. My mind was completely full of thoughts of

them. Whenever I noticed something about myself I'd think, " Is that

more like Dad, or more like Mom? " I think I was in my early 20s before

the lighting bolt hit. It was " like " (gasp) me!

Shepherding that little tender nascent self into the strong self of

today took some time, and some doing.

I do very much remember what you describe, though. A sort of

blankness, an emptiness in my mind. So much room had been taken up by

all the FAMILY DRAMA that it was like turning off a blaring TV set and

suddenly hearing the crickets chirping. It had been so damn loud, so

disconcerting, so all-absorbing, that the silence was almost unsettling.

Though definitely golden. I suddenly understood why other people

seemed to accomplish more than me. They had more mental space. My mind

had been like an overcrowded desk, with teetering stacks of paper and

overflowing files. Of course it was hard to get work done.

Now it was all smooth and kinda empty. I started finding projects to

do, other things to accomplish, people to love, and it filled up. Now

I find it hard to think about my family for very long at all (we're in

limited contact) before my mind happily skips back to my much more

engrossing actual life today.

As a teen, I had always thought of myself as kinda lazy, but in

reality the family stress had taken enormous energy to deal with. When

it was taken away, I spent a long time just sort of coasting and

recovering, then exploring options, then definitely started picking up

speed.

I hope you enjoy your hard-won peace!

About hopelessness. She can't " swat you down with a phone call " unless

you let her. When I went NC, the whole family arrayed itself against

me, and said any number of cruel and cutting things. I was laid very

low for a while, but then I finally decided that " living well was the

best revenge " and started doing it.

Every nice thing you do for yourself, every good experience you have,

every little thing you accomplish, is like a tiny scale of armor

protecting you from her abuse. So go suit up!

You probably feel hopeless for the same reason I used to. You were

young, powerless, trapped in a crappy situation, and told awful things

about yourself and about the world. Well, it was all lies. Life is

great if you make it so. And crappy if you make it so. You aren't

fated to suffer, and you aren't tragically flawed. You've just learned

some attitudes (all is hopeless) that made sense then, but don't now.

Hopelessness is just a habit, and you can break it like any other habit.

Best of luck to you. I look forward to hearing stories of your future

achievements and happinesses, great and small.

LD

> >

> > Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am I? "

> >

> > I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking

> about

> > stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still there.

> My

> > nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> > telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress and

> > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> >

> > Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

> classes

> > in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak

> out or

> > tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

> >

> > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels weird.

> What

> > is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something without

> > mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I keep

> > this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course, after

> all

> > this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

> things

> > I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with

> almost

> > no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man, what

> is

> > wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

> >

> > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying, rereading

> Not

> > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day to

> day

> > and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

> telling

> > her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

> >

> > And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and

> start

> > dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And thinking

> > maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> > overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to just

> > make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> > taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for

> long.

> >

> > It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just

> gain

> > it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital

> crime

> > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

> that. "

> > Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

> >

> > Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me ill.

> I

> > feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down

> like a

> > fly with just one phone call.

> >

> > I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

> >

> > -Deanna

> >

>

June 11, 2007

lettydale -- what an AWESOME, insightful post.

I have gotten so much from this thread, but so much from your

words. How you worded it really resonated with me in my search to

find myself as a separate person from my family.

I think part of me felt guilty in the past for achieving more than

they did. Not that I'm any great shakes, but I never thought of the

world as mine however I wanted it. I always held back. Perhaps

it's that fear instilled in me by my Hermit mother. Her driving

force is " Life is to be feared -- run from it!! "

Your words were so inspiring, and dead on.

-Kyla

> > >

> > > Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am

I? "

> > >

> > > I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking

> > about

> > > stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still

there.

> > My

> > > nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> > > telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress

and

> > > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has

an

> > > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> > >

> > > Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

> > classes

> > > in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to

freak

> > out or

> > > tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

> > >

> > > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels

weird.

> > What

> > > is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something

without

> > > mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I

keep

> > > this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course,

after

> > all

> > > this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

> > things

> > > I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with

> > almost

> > > no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man,

what

> > is

> > > wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

> > >

> > > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a

couple

> > > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying,

rereading

> > Not

> > > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day

to

> > day

> > > and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

> > telling

> > > her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

> > >

> > > And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate

and

> > start

> > > dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And

thinking

> > > maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay.

Have I

> > > overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to

just

> > > make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I

have a

> > > taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that

for

> > long.

> > >

> > > It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me

I'll " just

> > gain

> > > it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital

> > crime

> > > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it

will

> > > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

> > that. "

> > > Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

> > >

> > > Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me

ill.

> > I

> > > feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted

down

> > like a

> > > fly with just one phone call.

> > >

> > > I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

June 11, 2007

" ...I don't think nada knows it yet. She's so self-absorbed anyway,

it will take her several weeks to figure out I am gone. "

Ha ha -- my NC unfolded the same way. Like the kid who's hiding in

a game of hide & seek, only he doesn't know the game's over, the

kids have gone home and no one's looking for him.

Mine was a typical Silent Treatment (nada's) that merged with my

simultaneous New Attitude borne of finding this group and

reading " Emotional Blackmail " by Forward -- a " perfect storm "

that has led to my efforts at recovery.

It just occurs to me that it's been almost a year - I think it was

last June that I found this wonderful lifeline. My recovery began a

year ago.

{hugs}

Kyla

> >

> > Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am

I? "

> >

> > I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking

> about

> > stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still

there.

> My

> > nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> > telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress

and

> > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> >

> > Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

> classes

> > in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak

> out or

> > tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

> >

> > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels

weird.

> What

> > is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something

without

> > mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I

keep

> > this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course,

after

> all

> > this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

> things

> > I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with

> almost

> > no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man,

what

> is

> > wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

> >

> > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying,

rereading

> Not

> > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day

to

> day

> > and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

> telling

> > her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

> >

> > And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and

> start

> > dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And

thinking

> > maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> > overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to

just

> > make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> > taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for

> long.

> >

> > It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just

> gain

> > it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital

> crime

> > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

> that. "

> > Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

> >

> > Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me

ill.

> I

> > feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down

> like a

> > fly with just one phone call.

> >

> > I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

> >

> > -Deanna

> >

>

June 11, 2007

Wow, Deanna, I think your mom is my mom! And although I have never

been NC with my mother, I often feel the exact same way. What you said

makes a lot of sense. I think we spend so much time trying to minimize

the fallout/negative reactions from our families and trying to keep

our families happy that we forget about ourselves, our wishes and what

it is to make ourselves happy. I also think that it is perfectly

natural for us to want a relationship with our mothers, and with our

families in general. For me, I know that I will always want my mother

to be " normal " , like my friends parents - one of those moms who makes

you dinner and worries about you, who you can call anytime to ask for

advice and expect to get it, to simply be a mother and to be the

caregiver. That's the way its SUPPOSED to be. Unfortunately, we didn't

get that, and that's hard. I think that we each need to find a way to

deal with what we've been given. For a lot, the answer seems to be NC

or LC, but I know that that is difficult, as well (at least it has

been for my friend, who is NC with her BP mother and FOO).

But YOU've been there all along; I'm sure you have great coping

skills, but you also have lots of personality, dreams, desires, and

gifts. I know that for me, I have spent a lot of time thinking about

the reasons WHY I've done some of the things I've done and the reasons

why I've fought so hard to do some of the things I have done - some

things have simply been a reaction to something my mother/family has

done, some to rebel or to keep my family happy, and lots that were

restricted by my family, etc. But there are themes, and easy

extensions in the " real " world. YOU really have always been there, and

now you can take the time to really explore without the added burden

of your family. You can be " selfish " and think about YOU and what YOU

want. You deserve that, even if it seems weird and unnatural.

I have a feeling I might be babbling now . . . Best wishes to you!

>

> Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am I? "

>

> I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking about

> stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still there. My

> nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress and

> worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

>

> Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra classes

> in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak out or

> tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

>

> So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels weird. What

> is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something without

> mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I keep

> this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course, after all

> this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the things

> I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with almost

> no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man, what is

> wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

>

> Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying, rereading Not

> Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day to day

> and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of telling

> her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

>

> And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and start

> dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And thinking

> maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to just

> make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for long.

>

> It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just gain

> it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital crime

> to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for that. "

> Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

>

> Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me ill. I

> feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down like a

> fly with just one phone call.

>

> I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

>

> -Deanna

>

June 11, 2007

I like how you described that feeling. Not just waiting for the

other shoe to drop but also what if it doesn't? Then it is just me

and then what?

I have been slowly replacing them with me. I have been taking better

care of my self. I have surges of creativity. Baby steps though.

recognized my purple puddles reference from flylady.net. It

is a site for those of us that need help in taking care of ourselves

and stop living in chaos. I think we get a little addicted to the

adrenaline rushes of getting involved in the nada chaos.

As I am detaching from them more completely and time passes, I am

finding lots of ways to fill up that time and put my energies into me

and my family. But I slip back at times. My aunt was coming to

visit my padas this last weekend and they were nervous about it all.

They were eager to repaint to my aunt that something is wrong with me

and eager to recapture their victim role. My brother had warned me

that my aunt was coming. I had seen my padas drive by my house

several times last week (they have no need to go down my street even

though it is busy). My nada sent an email Sat night asking me to go

to dinner with them and my aunt the next day at 11am. I told my

husband I wasn't going to respond bc I am damned if I do, damned if I

don't. I told him I would only see my aunt if she contacted me

directly. Well my aunt called on Sunday afternoon and just talked to

my husband, saying " hi " and that they were leaving in an hour. I

wondered if nada wasn't right there hassling her to call to see if we

were home. Anyway, I was all uptight after the email came Sat

night. Would nada try to call if I didn't write back, would they

just stop over? I was a wreck.

(I am making you feel like you are in good rambling comfort here)

Next time I hope to not let a similar situation bother me so much but

I guess I have to forgive myself for not knowing how to handle these

things in a healthy way too. Baby steps. I guess what I am saying

is the void is good! It means you are making room for you!

from one babbler to others:)

patinage

>

> Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am I? "

>

> I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking about

> stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still there.

My

> nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress and

> worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

>

> Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

classes

> in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak out

or

> tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

>

> So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels weird.

What

> is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something without

> mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I keep

> this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course, after

all

> this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

things

> I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with almost

> no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man, what is

> wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

>

> Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying, rereading

Not

> Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day to

day

> and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

telling

> her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

>

> And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and

start

> dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And thinking

> maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to just

> make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for

long.

>

> It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just

gain

> it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital crime

> to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

that. "

> Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

>

> Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me ill. I

> feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down

like a

> fly with just one phone call.

>

> I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

>

> -Deanna

>

June 11, 2007

Thanks, ! Yes, it's starting to seem really cool now...!

Vi

>

> CONGRATULATIONS, VI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

June 11, 2007

LD--everything in this post was helpful and beautifully written. It's

definitely a printer-outer.

Thanks for your words.

Love,

Vi

> > >

> > > Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am I? "

> > >

> > > I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking

> > about

> > > stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still there.

> > My

> > > nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> > > telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress and

> > > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> > > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> > >

> > > Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

> > classes

> > > in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak

> > out or

> > > tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

> > >

> > > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels weird.

> > What

> > > is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something without

> > > mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I keep

> > > this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course, after

> > all

> > > this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

> > things

> > > I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with

> > almost

> > > no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man, what

> > is

> > > wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

> > >

> > > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> > > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying, rereading

> > Not

> > > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day to

> > day

> > > and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

> > telling

> > > her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

> > >

> > > And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and

> > start

> > > dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And thinking

> > > maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> > > overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to just

> > > make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> > > taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for

> > long.

> > >

> > > It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just

> > gain

> > > it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital

> > crime

> > > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> > > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

> > that. "

> > > Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

> > >

> > > Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me ill.

> > I

> > > feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down

> > like a

> > > fly with just one phone call.

> > >

> > > I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

June 11, 2007

Well congratulations on one year free, Kyla!

Maybe you could do a little something nice to celebrate...like

something they never let you do or have...just a thought!

Love,

Vi

> > >

> > > Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am

> I? "

> > >

> > > I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking

> > about

> > > stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still

> there.

> > My

> > > nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> > > telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress

> and

> > > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> > > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> > >

> > > Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

> > classes

> > > in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak

> > out or

> > > tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

> > >

> > > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels

> weird.

> > What

> > > is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something

> without

> > > mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I

> keep

> > > this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course,

> after

> > all

> > > this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

> > things

> > > I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with

> > almost

> > > no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man,

> what

> > is

> > > wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

> > >

> > > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> > > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying,

> rereading

> > Not

> > > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day

> to

> > day

> > > and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

> > telling

> > > her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

> > >

> > > And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and

> > start

> > > dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And

> thinking

> > > maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> > > overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to

> just

> > > make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> > > taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for

> > long.

> > >

> > > It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just

> > gain

> > > it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital

> > crime

> > > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> > > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

> > that. "

> > > Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

> > >

> > > Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me

> ill.

> > I

> > > feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down

> > like a

> > > fly with just one phone call.

> > >

> > > I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

June 12, 2007

Hi Deanna,

You are very much NOT alone. I can totally relate to much of what

you say:

I think I've learned to stress and

> worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

I remember how in college I decided not to pledge a sorority. My

nada was in tears when I told her I had missed pledge week (well, I

went to such a nerdy school anyway that didn't mean much). She

thought I had ruined my life. I was paralyzed and shocked. For

crying out loud, she had never even SAID she wanted me to do this,

and yet when I decided not to I had ruined both of our lives? WTF?

Mixed up in this was the notion that she actually had a " plan " for

my life. So when I chose a particular path in grad school , she

said " but you weren't supposed to do that, you were supposed to go

and work and get your second degree part-time! " There was no room

for me to say anything - just to, as you say, freak out that I had

deviated from some lunatic's fantasies for me which SHE probably

hadn't even given any thought to.

>

> So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels weird.

What

> is it like to be peaceful?

It is absolutely great. My life is so easy now. Oh, there are

issues, but my home is safe, and I don't worry about being screamed

at whenever I come through the door or pick up the phone. My

friends have slowly changed, and now they are laid-back people who

don't have regular crises, aren't threatened by me, and who I can

really share my problems with if i need to. Life is so much better.

> Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying, rereading

Not

> Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day to

day

> and carrying it all the way through in my head.

LOL = my wonderful husband was born in Iran and my nada totally

whipped out that book. Luckily I already had enough distance from

her by the time I met him to make the break.

Now, I know that's not a capital crime

> to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

that. "

I KNOW, I KNOW! I can't get anywhere close to her, even a phone

conversation is too dangerous because that loss of hope rushes in.

It takes so much work to get to a place where we expect life to be

good.

Hang in there,

Sara

June 12, 2007

Congratulations from me too, Vi, this is such great news about your

internship! It's so nice that we can share the happy stuff in our

lives on this board too

Sara

> > >

> > > Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am

> I? "

> > >

> > > I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking

> about

> > > stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still

> there. My

> > > nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> > > telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress

> and

> > > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has

an

> > > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> > >

> > > Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

> classes

> > > in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to

freak

> out or

> > > tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

> > >

> > > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels

> weird. What

> > > is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something

> without

> > > mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I

> keep

> > > this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course,

> after all

> > > this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

> things

> > > I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with

> almost

> > > no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man,

> what is

> > > wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

> > >

> > > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a

couple

> > > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying,

> rereading Not

> > > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day

> to day

> > > and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

> telling

> > > her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

> > >

> > > And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate

and

> start

> > > dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And

> thinking

> > > maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay.

Have I

> > > overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to

> just

> > > make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I

have a

> > > taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that

for

> long.

> > >

> > > It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me

I'll " just

> gain

> > > it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital

> crime

> > > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it

will

> > > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

> that. "

> > > Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

> > >

> > > Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me

> ill. I

> > > feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted

down

> like a

> > > fly with just one phone call.

> > >

> > > I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

June 12, 2007

babble on everyone! this thread is so great! i remember moving into

my college dorms (30 mintues from home!), and i actually would TELL my

roommates, " i'm going to the bathroom now, ok? " . they of course

laughed at me and thought it was pretty weird. they were right! but

in my house i never had the freedom to even use the BATHROOM without

checking to make sure my BPD mother and handicapped father didn't need

something from me first!

i'm very much trying to 'find' myself at this point in my life. but

i'm 36! i have a husband and a baby! but i still am finding time to

explore interests, learn to relax, etc. not doing the best job, but

trying nonetheless.

these posts inspire me.

wish me luck!

k8

>

> Hi Deanna,

> You are very much NOT alone. I can totally relate to much of what

> you say:

>

> I think I've learned to stress and

> > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

>

> I remember how in college I decided not to pledge a sorority. My

> nada was in tears when I told her I had missed pledge week (well, I

> went to such a nerdy school anyway that didn't mean much). She

> thought I had ruined my life. I was paralyzed and shocked. For

> crying out loud, she had never even SAID she wanted me to do this,

> and yet when I decided not to I had ruined both of our lives? WTF?

>

> Mixed up in this was the notion that she actually had a " plan " for

> my life. So when I chose a particular path in grad school , she

> said " but you weren't supposed to do that, you were supposed to go

> and work and get your second degree part-time! " There was no room

> for me to say anything - just to, as you say, freak out that I had

> deviated from some lunatic's fantasies for me which SHE probably

> hadn't even given any thought to.

> >

> > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels weird.

> What

> > is it like to be peaceful?

>

> It is absolutely great. My life is so easy now. Oh, there are

> issues, but my home is safe, and I don't worry about being screamed

> at whenever I come through the door or pick up the phone. My

> friends have slowly changed, and now they are laid-back people who

> don't have regular crises, aren't threatened by me, and who I can

> really share my problems with if i need to. Life is so much better.

>

> > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying, rereading

> Not

> > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day to

> day

> > and carrying it all the way through in my head.

>

> LOL = my wonderful husband was born in Iran and my nada totally

> whipped out that book. Luckily I already had enough distance from

> her by the time I met him to make the break.

>

> Now, I know that's not a capital crime

> > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

> that. "

>

> I KNOW, I KNOW! I can't get anywhere close to her, even a phone

> conversation is too dangerous because that loss of hope rushes in.

> It takes so much work to get to a place where we expect life to be

> good.

>

> Hang in there,

> Sara

>

June 12, 2007

>

> Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck am I? "

>

> I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and freaking about

> stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still there.

My

> nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big on

> telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to stress and

> worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has an

> opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

>

> Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking extra

classes

> in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to freak out

or

> tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

>

> So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels weird.

What

> is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something without

> mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should I keep

> this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course, after

all

> this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes the

things

> I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come with almost

> no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man, what is

> wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

>

> Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a couple

> dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying, rereading

Not

> Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day to

day

> and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid of

telling

> her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

>

> And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate and

start

> dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And thinking

> maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay. Have I

> overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO to just

> make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I have a

> taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that for

long.

>

> It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me I'll " just

gain

> it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a capital crime

> to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it will

> eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

that. "

> Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the shoulders.

>

> Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me ill. I

> feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted down

like a

> fly with just one phone call.

>

> I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

>

> -Deanna

>

Hi Deanna,

Congrtulations for taking the self preserving step of going NC. I

know what you man by " who am I now? " I've beentrying to figur some of

that out myself. I realize that so much time and energy has gone to

trying to trying to overcome something related to Nada. I have three

teenagers I'm raising myself, and a career...its hard to get enough

energy to do something simple like go to a yoga class.

Nevertheless, I am also NC...officially for about a month, but I was

Very Minimal Contact for a year prior.

Now that I'm really NC, I do wonder who I will now become that I have

some more emotional energy beginning.

I'm guessing that you will be worried about NC backfiring on you,

because that s how you are accustomed to thinking. You should expect

to have some anxiety, if you always had Anxiet about Nada's reaction.

You may also have some guilt. But this is normal, and will fade as

you continue to remain NC. You will realize how good it feels, and

that will strngthen your resolve. You will start realizing that you

are entitiled to have freedom from harrassment and being picked on.

I think the space that gets created by NC (once the anxiety about it

dissipates) will get filled gradually as you start to think about

what YOU want in your life. Tolerating thi emptiness is better than

tolerating abuse.

I think that you have to expect feeling afraid " it will turn to

shit " for awhile....tolerate the feeling, but know you will hold

your new boundaries no matter what. And yes, we have to tolerate the

fear, obligation and guilt for awhile. Its a conditioned reaction

that should go away.

My mother is having a dinner for my stepdad's 80th birthday next

week. Although i love him, it will be a very small gathering where

nada will be. I'll be dropping my kids off, but no staying. I imagine

I will alot of anxiety while the dinner is going on, but again...I

have to tolerate that in order to take care myself. Being with nada

will be worse than the anxiety of not going. Ove time, I'm getting

more and more indifferent to her anger, disapproval, and talking

trash about me.

Getting away from her is the fulfillmet of a lifelong dream. I'm

willing to go through the hard parts, its easier to tolerate them

knowing they are ineviable and temporary.

Hang in there!!

Amy

June 12, 2007

I feel like I didn't realize the extent of how I had molded myself to fit some

sort of need of

my mother's until I left home and ended our relationship. It's two years later

and I am

STILL coming to terms with how distorted my thinking actually is because of her.

I find

myself looking for stability anywhere I can get it. I will eat the same dinner

night after

night, because it's stable, constant, somthing I created, somethin in my

control. Everyone

comments on how mature and put together I am, but what they don't realize is

that I fell

like I don't even know myself, I have no IDEA who I am. My childhood wasn't

spent learning

about myself, it was wasted on getting someone else's needs met. I am just

realizing these

things now. The progress I have made is amazing, but I feel like there is so

much damage,

and that the progress comes in such minute increments.

I feel like I never had a mother-daughter relationship with my mom, or more

accurately, I

kind of just phased out my hopes and expectations of having one at a young age.

Her

touch made me cringe, because I associated her touching me with physical

violence. At the

time I left home, we had not hugged in over 5 years. After I left, friends would

ask me if I

missed her. I never did. I longed for the " fixed " mother, the " all better "

mother that I

created in my head. I never missed the real one that I had. It makes me feel

badly to say so

,but I think of her as a monster. She sucks the life out of people, destroys

them. leaves

them broken. I feel sorry for her victims.

Anya

June 12, 2007

Here's one that I just thought of the other day. When I was young, my mother

would split pretty much everyone and once someone was split black, it was very

hard to be redeemed. I just realized that this 'with me or against me'

mentality has completely formed the way I think of friends. I am often worried

that because I am friends with someone, other friends of mine might not like

that. For instance, if there are two people I know who don't get along, I think

that they cannot both want to be friends with me.

I also used to worry that my friends were not 'cool' enough to be accepted by

others, which meant that they would stop being friends with me (which I perceive

as a version of splitting black). When I was in college, I even remember having

a conversation with a very good friend of mine and saying I couldn't believe she

was my friend because she was so cool and couldn't possibly enjoy hanging out

with someone as not cool as me.

Very weird. I hope this made sense.

is

PS - Vi, congratulations!

---------------------------------

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.

Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

June 12, 2007

Vi --

" Today I learned that I have in fact got the internship at the

city newspaper. I'll be responsible for the arts and entertainment

section of the annual publication for newcomers "

Congrats to you, too! Enjoy!

Yes, I have been " celebrating " by re-reading UBM -- it's amazing how

relevant that book is! I didn't take it all in on the first read.

Cheers!,

Kyla

> > > >

> > > > Two months NC, and my most recent thought is, " Who the heck

am

> > I? "

> > > >

> > > > I'm realizing I had become accustomed to worrying and

freaking

> > > about

> > > > stuff. I was able to keep most of it in, but it was still

> > there.

> > > My

> > > > nada is a higher functioning hermit/witch. She was very big

on

> > > > telling me what I couldn't do. I think I've learned to

stress

> > and

> > > > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always

has an

> > > > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> > > >

> > > > Even when I think I'm doing something good, like taking

extra

> > > classes

> > > > in college or volunteering, I could often count on her to

freak

> > > out or

> > > > tell me I'm wrong or I can't do it or it won't work.

> > > >

> > > > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels

> > weird.

> > > What

> > > > is it like to be peaceful? What is it like to do something

> > without

> > > > mapping out a whole list of if/then's, starting with should

I

> > keep

> > > > this from nada and if I don't what will she say. Of course,

> > after

> > > all

> > > > this training, I've learned to do it myself, and sometimes

the

> > > things

> > > > I would worry the most about her freaking on, would come

with

> > > almost

> > > > no response. Then I would sigh with relief but think, " Man,

> > what

> > > is

> > > > wrong with me? Why was I so worried? "

> > > >

> > > > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a

couple

> > > > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying,

> > rereading

> > > Not

> > > > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken

day

> > to

> > > day

> > > > and carrying it all the way through in my head. So afraid

of

> > > telling

> > > > her and dealing with her racist/ignorant response.

> > > >

> > > > And now my worry is that someday I will " have to " capitulate

and

> > > start

> > > > dealing with her phone calls and invasiveness again. And

> > thinking

> > > > maybe she's not as bad as I think. Sometimes she's okay.

Have I

> > > > overthought the bad times? Pressure coming in from the FOO

to

> > just

> > > > make up already. They'll never understand. I feel like I

have a

> > > > taste of freedom, but I won't be " allowed " to hang onto that

for

> > > long.

> > > >

> > > > It's like losing weight at 14, and having her tell me

I'll " just

> > > gain

> > > > it back like everyone else. " Now, I know that's not a

capital

> > > crime

> > > > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a

whole

> > > > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it

will

> > > > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare

for

> > > that. "

> > > > Then the inevitable loss of hope and slumping of the

shoulders.

> > > >

> > > > Not that I'm wanting to talk to her again; the idea makes me

> > ill.

> > > I

> > > > feel like any progress I make could potentially be swatted

down

> > > like a

> > > > fly with just one phone call.

> > > >

> > > > I'm babbling. Can anyone relate?

> > > >

> > > > -Deanna

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 12, 2007

So weird! One of my earliest memories - I must have been about

three - is asking my parents if I was allowed to go to the

bathroom. They laughed their heads off, but for someone reason I

was pretty convinced I wasn't allowed to...

Sara

> >

> > Hi Deanna,

> > You are very much NOT alone. I can totally relate to much of

what

> > you say:

> >

> > I think I've learned to stress and

> > > worry about decisions, even minor ones, because she always has

an

> > > opinion on them, no matter how old I am.

> >

> > I remember how in college I decided not to pledge a sorority.

My

> > nada was in tears when I told her I had missed pledge week

(well, I

> > went to such a nerdy school anyway that didn't mean much). She

> > thought I had ruined my life. I was paralyzed and shocked. For

> > crying out loud, she had never even SAID she wanted me to do

this,

> > and yet when I decided not to I had ruined both of our lives?

WTF?

> >

> > Mixed up in this was the notion that she actually had a " plan "

for

> > my life. So when I chose a particular path in grad school , she

> > said " but you weren't supposed to do that, you were supposed to

go

> > and work and get your second degree part-time! " There was no

room

> > for me to say anything - just to, as you say, freak out that I

had

> > deviated from some lunatic's fantasies for me which SHE probably

> > hadn't even given any thought to.

> > >

> > > So now there's that space, and that silence, and it feels

weird.

> > What

> > > is it like to be peaceful?

> >

> > It is absolutely great. My life is so easy now. Oh, there are

> > issues, but my home is safe, and I don't worry about being

screamed

> > at whenever I come through the door or pick up the phone. My

> > friends have slowly changed, and now they are laid-back people

who

> > don't have regular crises, aren't threatened by me, and who I

can

> > really share my problems with if i need to. Life is so much

better.

> >

> > > Like years ago, I met this Iranian doctor and we went on a

couple

> > > dates, but I would be up at night worry worry worrying,

rereading

> > Not

> > > Without My Daughter, taking something that should be taken day

to

> > day

> > > and carrying it all the way through in my head.

> >

> > LOL = my wonderful husband was born in Iran and my nada totally

> > whipped out that book. Luckily I already had enough distance

from

> > her by the time I met him to make the break.

> >

> > Now, I know that's not a capital crime

> > > to say that, but it's indicative of a whole pathology, a whole

> > > philosophy on life that says " so what if it's good now? it

will

> > > eventually just all turn to shit, so you'd better prepare for

> > that. "

> >

> > I KNOW, I KNOW! I can't get anywhere close to her, even a phone

> > conversation is too dangerous because that loss of hope rushes

in.

> > It takes so much work to get to a place where we expect life to

be

> > good.

> >

> > Hang in there,

> > Sara

> >

>

June 12, 2007

Anya, this really hit home for me:

<<<Everyone comments on how mature and put together I am, but what

they don't realize is that I fell like I don't even know myself, I

have no IDEA who I am. My childhood wasn't spent learning about

myself, it was wasted on getting someone else's needs met. I am just

realizing these things now.>>>

I heard the same kinds of things growing up: how mature and " well-

adjusted " I was, despite all the craziness my nada created. Nobody

really asked, though -- they saw me going through the motions and

assumed I was ok. They didn't realize I was going through the

motions because I HAD to; nada had a facade to maintain and I had to

protect us both, since she couldn't protect either of us. I was not

allowed to have a real childhood because I had to survive, and

survival meant being a grown-up. I didn't know anything else but

survival. I defined the rest of myself based on what everyone else

told me I was, because I didn't have the luxury of discovering who I

was. It was easier to let someone else fill in the blanks.

In short, Anya, I have been experiencing a similar identity crisis

for about 5 years now. Who is this person? It has only been in the

last two weeks (since nada flipped her lid and BPD was diagnosed)

that I am finally starting to understand that I don't understand,

which I guess is the first step. It is nothing short of miraculous.

<<<I longed for the " fixed " mother, the " all better " mother that I

created in my head. I never missed the real one that I had.>>>

Amen. Like so many of us here, I am trying to let go of this

imaginary mother I always hoped was just under the surface. Thank

you for putting that into words; it is helping me grieve.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your post. I wish you the

best of luck and all the joy in the world as you discover who you

truly are. It isn't easy, but you are making progress and you should

celebrate it! Think of it as a process: Your childhood wasn't

destroyed overnight, so your self can't be expected to bounce back

overnight, either.

You are not alone, and it helps to know that I am not, either.

*hugs*

>

> I feel like I didn't realize the extent of how I had molded myself

to fit some sort of need of

> my mother's until I left home and ended our relationship. It's two

years later and I am

> STILL coming to terms with how distorted my thinking actually is

because of her. I find

> myself looking for stability anywhere I can get it. I will eat the

same dinner night after

> night, because it's stable, constant, somthing I created, somethin

in my control. Everyone

> comments on how mature and put together I am, but what they don't

realize is that I fell

> like I don't even know myself, I have no IDEA who I am. My

childhood wasn't spent learning

> about myself, it was wasted on getting someone else's needs met. I

am just realizing these

> things now. The progress I have made is amazing, but I feel like

there is so much damage,

> and that the progress comes in such minute increments.

>

> I feel like I never had a mother-daughter relationship with my

mom, or more accurately, I

> kind of just phased out my hopes and expectations of having one at

a young age. Her

> touch made me cringe, because I associated her touching me with

physical violence. At the

> time I left home, we had not hugged in over 5 years. After I left,

friends would ask me if I

> missed her. I never did. I longed for the " fixed " mother, the " all

better " mother that I

> created in my head. I never missed the real one that I had. It

makes me feel badly to say so

> ,but I think of her as a monster. She sucks the life out of

people, destroys them. leaves

> them broken. I feel sorry for her victims.

>

> Anya

>

June 12, 2007

Thanks Sara!

>

> Congratulations from me too, Vi, this is such great news about your

> internship! It's so nice that we can share the happy stuff in our

> lives on this board too

>

> Sara

>

June 12, 2007

Thanks, is!

In a way, you were fortunate with your " cool " college friend. While I

was in high school (the worst period of abuse), I pretty much

downplayed a lot of the offers of friendship from people I really

admired--I just refused to see that they considered me part of their

group. They couldn't possibly want anything to do with such a nerd as me.

It was only in hindsight that I realized I could have had some amazing

friendships, but just couldn't reach out. A friend of mine said, " But

I always assumed you were part of that group " , and I was

flabbergasted. Who, me?

Sigh. I guess we just keep trying, huh?

Vi

>

> Here's one that I just thought of the other day. When I was young,

my mother would split pretty much everyone and once someone was split

black, it was very hard to be redeemed. I just realized that this

'with me or against me' mentality has completely formed the way I

think of friends. I am often worried that because I am friends with

someone, other friends of mine might not like that. For instance, if

there are two people I know who don't get along, I think that they

cannot both want to be friends with me.

>

> I also used to worry that my friends were not 'cool' enough to be

accepted by others, which meant that they would stop being friends

with me (which I perceive as a version of splitting black). When I

was in college, I even remember having a conversation with a very good

friend of mine and saying I couldn't believe she was my friend because

she was so cool and couldn't possibly enjoy hanging out with someone

as not cool as me.

>

> Very weird. I hope this made sense.

>

> is

>

> PS - Vi, congratulations!

>

> ---------------------------------

> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.

> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

>

June 12, 2007

Thanks, Kyla!

Love,

Vi

>

> Vi --

>

> " Today I learned that I have in fact got the internship at the

> city newspaper. I'll be responsible for the arts and entertainment

> section of the annual publication for newcomers "

>

> Congrats to you, too! Enjoy!

>

> Yes, I have been " celebrating " by re-reading UBM -- it's amazing how

> relevant that book is! I didn't take it all in on the first read.

>

> Cheers!,

> Kyla

June 12, 2007

" They couldn't possibly want anything to do with such a nerd as me. " - I can

relate. Do you think it's cause your mother kept you isolated from the

" real world " ? or was she so embarrassing that you were afraid to invite

anyone over to your home? I went through both.

_____