Re: I think my mom may have BPD

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

It certainly sounds like your mom has BPD-or at least 'traits of'. I

finally convinced my mother to go to therapy with me this year.

My advice to you is to talk with the therapist confidentially at some

point and give them a 'head's up'. i did not do this and i totally

regret it. the therapist, while definitely understanding my point of

view in every conflict, didn't have enough of a history to understand

the depth of my mother's illness (a former therapist of ours confided

in me about the diagnosis). the current therapist actually ended our

sessions after just 6 months. i didn't complain at the time, because

it was taking up too much of my life. the sessions would go ok, but

AFTER the sessions i would be roped into VERY long recaps, which were

always heavy on the " Poor Me " syndrome. i put up with it in a

desperate attempt to keep her going to therapy.

i think if i had told the therapist about my mom's diagnosis, the

therapist at least would have taken a different approach or been more

watchful for certain behaviors.

i will say that it wasn't completely worthless though. my mom was

definitely embarrassed to admit some of her weird requests of me in

front of a professional. for instance she always wanted my husband

and i to sleep over her house when we visit-even though we live only

an hour away. this hasn't come up since she saw a therapist's

reaction to that request!

i hope this helps you in figuring out how to approach therapy with

your mom.

k8

>

> For years I have had a very strange and confusing relationship with my

> mother. She is an alcoholic, currently seeking treatment as a result

> of a drinking binge that got her hospitalized and a criminal record

> for assaulting a police officer.

>

> Since I was a small child, my mother has manipulated me, my brother,

> and her closest friends. I have always known this, but have enabled

> her behaviour over and over again, by letting her irrational

> accusations and deceptions slide. It usually begins with some form of

> mild disagreement, and escalates into a horrible battle where no

> matter what I say or how I say it, she beleives me to be against her.

> I'll say something like " I'm on your side! " and get an answer

> like: " you were never on my side! " I will calmly state how I feel and

> what I think, and it always gets interpreted as hurtful and abusive--

> no matter how delicately put. The fights are exhausting and often end

> in her making threats or statements like: " I wish I was dead. " or " I

> guess I am just a horrible person! " or " You don't appreciate me " etc...

> All responses seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty for

> the 'horrible' way I have treated her. When I opt out of the

> conversation for my own sanity she often acts drastically to force me

> to pay attention to her. She will leave like 10 messages on my

> phone. The first several are angry and accusatory. Then she resorts

> to making hints that she will end her life because no one understands

> her or values her. She will then drink and/or become extremely

> depressive and call the cops to take her to the hospitol. Then I get

> a call from her to let me know she is in the hospitol. This most

> drastic reaction happens most when I don't give her the attention she

> wants when she wants it. So I end up having to put my life on hold

> and deal with hers. On the other hand, if I call her back and say I'm

> sorry or it's ok, she calms down---I basically have to justify her

> behaviour and everything is ok.

>

> If I didn't value her I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, I would

> just cut her off. Her behaviour is irrational and unfair to me. I go

> out of my way on far too many occasions to listen to her talk about

> her self, often for hours on the phone. Sometimes she calls just

> to 'talk' but what she is really doing is looking for constant

> reassurance from me. I will listen for hours about every single

> detail of her day--she leaves no stone unturned--while I might get a

> few sentences in. Most of the conversation is me going " uh-oh " " oh, i

> see " etc... And to think she loves to accuse me of not listening to

> her!

>

> She is extremelly self-centered, but she feels she is the opposite.

> She feels she is a 'good person' and cares so much for others. This

> is not entirely untrue, but she is only wonderful to others when she

> isn't feeling threatened, then she is a scary beast. She has a very

> distorted view of others--either describing friends and family as

> saints or villains, depending on her mood. She also has a very poor

> memory of past events, especially the ones in which she said the most

> hateful things.

>

> She has lost two of her best friends this year, and now she is pushing

> me away. The incident that triggered her pulling away from me involved

> a friend of ours(who has now cut my mom off). The three of us were

> having lunch and I started talking about a stressful occurance at

> work. My mom kept trying to interrupt me, and the friend kept telling

> her to wait until I was done talking (like five times). My mom gets

> really angry when she is not the center of attention, when she feels

> she should be. The friend finally said " shut up! I am trying to

> listen to your daughter! " Then the two of them got into a fight and

> my mom started making her usual statements like " No one ever wants to

> listen to me! " Poor me syndrome. She talks more than the other two

> of us put together. Anyway, I had a talk with this friend of ours

> later after she had talked with my mom, and found out she has had the

> same problems with my mom that I have for years. I know it is my mom

> and I love her, but I really saw this woman's point of view. My mom

> says the most ungodly things to her friends when she feels she is

> being rejected. She is incapable of hearing criticism rationally, her

> responses are purely emotional.

>

> So after this exhausting incident, my mom drove home alone, because I

> didn't want to be in the car under the influence of her unstable

> mood. I was scared. My mom and her friend had another fight the next

> day, when the friend came by to pick up her salon supplies(she does my

> moms hair)and the friend ended up leaving--all the while my mom

> yelling " Don't Leave me too! " My friend had to tear herself out of my

> mom's embrace to leave.

>

> So yesterday I got a call from my mom to tell me she was at the

> emergency room. And my first emotion was anger. I decided this time

> I would not drop everything and come running, but let her deal with it

> on her own. She called back later to tell me how she was--she was

> fine--but I still think it was a ploy to get me to pay immediate

> attention to her. We had a talk and I finally confronted her and told

> her that I think she can be manipulative sometimes. I offered for us

> to go to a counselour together to talk about this because I no longer

> have any interest in her emotional blackmail filled discussions. I

> think with a third person present she may be forced to confront that

> she may have a problem.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice. I think that would be better for me to meet

with the therapist first(I don't even know if my mom would subject

herself to therapy---she needs to snap out of denial first) Then at

least I can find more tools for dealing with my BP mom. Now I just

have to find a good therapist.

Thanks again for reading my long post!

>

> Hi there,

> It certainly sounds like your mom has BPD-or at least 'traits

of'. I

> finally convinced my mother to go to therapy with me this year.

>

> My advice to you is to talk with the therapist confidentially at

some

> point and give them a 'head's up'. i did not do this and i totally

> regret it. the therapist, while definitely understanding my point

of

> view in every conflict, didn't have enough of a history to

understand

> the depth of my mother's illness (a former therapist of ours

confided

> in me about the diagnosis). the current therapist actually ended

our

> sessions after just 6 months. i didn't complain at the time,

because

> it was taking up too much of my life. the sessions would go ok,

but

> AFTER the sessions i would be roped into VERY long recaps, which

were

> always heavy on the " Poor Me " syndrome. i put up with it in a

> desperate attempt to keep her going to therapy.

> i think if i had told the therapist about my mom's diagnosis, the

> therapist at least would have taken a different approach or been

more

> watchful for certain behaviors.

>

> i will say that it wasn't completely worthless though. my mom was

> definitely embarrassed to admit some of her weird requests of me in

> front of a professional. for instance she always wanted my husband

> and i to sleep over her house when we visit-even though we live

only

> an hour away. this hasn't come up since she saw a therapist's

> reaction to that request!

>

> i hope this helps you in figuring out how to approach therapy with

> your mom.

> k8

>

> >

> > For years I have had a very strange and confusing relationship

with my

> > mother. She is an alcoholic, currently seeking treatment as a

result

> > of a drinking binge that got her hospitalized and a criminal

record

> > for assaulting a police officer.

> >

> > Since I was a small child, my mother has manipulated me, my

brother,

> > and her closest friends. I have always known this, but have

enabled

> > her behaviour over and over again, by letting her irrational

> > accusations and deceptions slide. It usually begins with some

form of

> > mild disagreement, and escalates into a horrible battle where no

> > matter what I say or how I say it, she beleives me to be against

her.

> > I'll say something like " I'm on your side! " and get an answer

> > like: " you were never on my side! " I will calmly state how I

feel and

> > what I think, and it always gets interpreted as hurtful and

abusive--

> > no matter how delicately put. The fights are exhausting and

often end

> > in her making threats or statements like: " I wish I was dead. "

or " I

> > guess I am just a horrible person! " or " You don't appreciate me "

etc...

> > All responses seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty for

> > the 'horrible' way I have treated her. When I opt out of the

> > conversation for my own sanity she often acts drastically to

force me

> > to pay attention to her. She will leave like 10 messages on my

> > phone. The first several are angry and accusatory. Then she

resorts

> > to making hints that she will end her life because no one

understands

> > her or values her. She will then drink and/or become extremely

> > depressive and call the cops to take her to the hospitol. Then

I get

> > a call from her to let me know she is in the hospitol. This

most

> > drastic reaction happens most when I don't give her the

attention she

> > wants when she wants it. So I end up having to put my life on

hold

> > and deal with hers. On the other hand, if I call her back and

say I'm

> > sorry or it's ok, she calms down---I basically have to justify

her

> > behaviour and everything is ok.

> >

> > If I didn't value her I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, I

would

> > just cut her off. Her behaviour is irrational and unfair to

me. I go

> > out of my way on far too many occasions to listen to her talk

about

> > her self, often for hours on the phone. Sometimes she calls

just

> > to 'talk' but what she is really doing is looking for constant

> > reassurance from me. I will listen for hours about every single

> > detail of her day--she leaves no stone unturned--while I might

get a

> > few sentences in. Most of the conversation is me going " uh-

oh " " oh, i

> > see " etc... And to think she loves to accuse me of not

listening to

> > her!

> >

> > She is extremelly self-centered, but she feels she is the

opposite.

> > She feels she is a 'good person' and cares so much for others.

This

> > is not entirely untrue, but she is only wonderful to others when

she

> > isn't feeling threatened, then she is a scary beast. She has a

very

> > distorted view of others--either describing friends and family

as

> > saints or villains, depending on her mood. She also has a very

poor

> > memory of past events, especially the ones in which she said the

most

> > hateful things.

> >

> > She has lost two of her best friends this year, and now she is

pushing

> > me away. The incident that triggered her pulling away from me

involved

> > a friend of ours(who has now cut my mom off). The three of us

were

> > having lunch and I started talking about a stressful occurance

at

> > work. My mom kept trying to interrupt me, and the friend kept

telling

> > her to wait until I was done talking (like five times). My mom

gets

> > really angry when she is not the center of attention, when she

feels

> > she should be. The friend finally said " shut up! I am trying to

> > listen to your daughter! " Then the two of them got into a fight

and

> > my mom started making her usual statements like " No one ever

wants to

> > listen to me! " Poor me syndrome. She talks more than the other

two

> > of us put together. Anyway, I had a talk with this friend of

ours

> > later after she had talked with my mom, and found out she has

had the

> > same problems with my mom that I have for years. I know it is

my mom

> > and I love her, but I really saw this woman's point of view. My

mom

> > says the most ungodly things to her friends when she feels she

is

> > being rejected. She is incapable of hearing criticism

rationally, her

> > responses are purely emotional.

> >

> > So after this exhausting incident, my mom drove home alone,

because I

> > didn't want to be in the car under the influence of her unstable

> > mood. I was scared. My mom and her friend had another fight

the next

> > day, when the friend came by to pick up her salon supplies(she

does my

> > moms hair)and the friend ended up leaving--all the while my mom

> > yelling " Don't Leave me too! " My friend had to tear herself out

of my

> > mom's embrace to leave.

> >

> > So yesterday I got a call from my mom to tell me she was at the

> > emergency room. And my first emotion was anger. I decided this

time

> > I would not drop everything and come running, but let her deal

with it

> > on her own. She called back later to tell me how she was--she

was

> > fine--but I still think it was a ploy to get me to pay immediate

> > attention to her. We had a talk and I finally confronted her

and told

> > her that I think she can be manipulative sometimes. I offered

for us

> > to go to a counselour together to talk about this because I no

longer

> > have any interest in her emotional blackmail filled

discussions. I

> > think with a third person present she may be forced to confront

that

> > she may have a problem.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kwanzan,

You wrote:

<<I will calmly state how I feel and what I think, and it always

gets interpreted as hurtful and abusive--no matter how delicately

put. The fights are exhausting and often end in her making threats

or statements like: " I wish I was dead. " or " I guess I am just a

horrible person! " or " You don't appreciate me " etc...All responses

seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty for the 'horrible' way I

have treated her. When I opt out of the conversation for my own

sanity she often acts drastically to force me to pay attention to

her>>

My nada falls right smack dab into the same category. Every problem

I had, every obstacle I encountered, I could count on her to tell me

how much worse she had it, steamroll me with stories about herself,

talk about " mememe " all darn day. This was particularly difficult

throughout adolesence, when every problem was " just drama " -- I

didn't know REAL problems (I did - she gave them to me).

She got remarried over Memorial Day weekend (Sun.), then spent ALL

day Mon. " celebrating " -- drinking like a fish (if not doing more

illicit things). I spent the day out with a friend, came home to

find her PLOWED and wanting " to talk " -- this story is far too long

to mash into someone else's thread, but the bottom line is: she

wanted me to pat her on the head and tell her what a wonderful,

glorious mother she had been and that none of the abuse or neglect

ever really happened -- and anything that DID happen didn't have a

lasting effect, right? RIGHT?!?! I couldn't do it. I couldn't look

this person in the eye and continue to feed her stories about how

great she is - truth be told, she should have been put in JAIL for

what she did to me. Very calmly, I told her that I didn't think this

was the right time, blah blah blah . . . she dissolved into a

blithering, sobbing mess and couldn't string two words together --

she was a 4 year old having a tantrum. Eventually, she ran

dramatically from the room, SHARPENED A KNIFE right behind where I

was sitting, locked herself in the bathroom, and made The Most

Pathetic, Ridiculous cut on her arm. Bloodied up the walls, yes --

but the hospital put a band-aid on it (standard issue, 1x2 " ) and

diagnosed her as BPD.

The cherry on top of seeing your drunk, abusive mother in a bloody

bathtub with a knife in her hand is hearing her scream to the

police, " It's her fault! She hates me! She'll never talk to me

again! " Nothing even remotely close to any of this was said, but

that's what the police think of me.

While this is one of the more dramatic scenes I've been treated to

by nada, it was the culmination of a lifetime of physical and

emotional abuse for me.

I don't know if she'll ever be honest enough with herself to make a

real attempt at change, but at least I can heal myself now, and this

group is helping me do that faster than I ever imagined -- I'm

learning 25492845324 things about myself every day.

Welcome and God Bless,

>

> For years I have had a very strange and confusing relationship

with my

> mother. She is an alcoholic, currently seeking treatment as a

result

> of a drinking binge that got her hospitalized and a criminal

record

> for assaulting a police officer.

>

> Since I was a small child, my mother has manipulated me, my

brother,

> and her closest friends. I have always known this, but have

enabled

> her behaviour over and over again, by letting her irrational

> accusations and deceptions slide. It usually begins with some

form of

> mild disagreement, and escalates into a horrible battle where no

> matter what I say or how I say it, she beleives me to be against

her.

> I'll say something like " I'm on your side! " and get an answer

> like: " you were never on my side! " I will calmly state how I feel

and

> what I think, and it always gets interpreted as hurtful and

abusive--

> no matter how delicately put. The fights are exhausting and often

end

> in her making threats or statements like: " I wish I was dead. "

or " I

> guess I am just a horrible person! " or " You don't appreciate me "

etc...

> All responses seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty for

> the 'horrible' way I have treated her. When I opt out of the

> conversation for my own sanity she often acts drastically to force

me

> to pay attention to her. She will leave like 10 messages on my

> phone. The first several are angry and accusatory. Then she

resorts

> to making hints that she will end her life because no one

understands

> her or values her. She will then drink and/or become extremely

> depressive and call the cops to take her to the hospitol. Then I

get

> a call from her to let me know she is in the hospitol. This most

> drastic reaction happens most when I don't give her the attention

she

> wants when she wants it. So I end up having to put my life on

hold

> and deal with hers. On the other hand, if I call her back and say

I'm

> sorry or it's ok, she calms down---I basically have to justify her

> behaviour and everything is ok.

>

> If I didn't value her I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, I

would

> just cut her off. Her behaviour is irrational and unfair to me.

I go

> out of my way on far too many occasions to listen to her talk

about

> her self, often for hours on the phone. Sometimes she calls just

> to 'talk' but what she is really doing is looking for constant

> reassurance from me. I will listen for hours about every single

> detail of her day--she leaves no stone unturned--while I might get

a

> few sentences in. Most of the conversation is me going " uh-

oh " " oh, i

> see " etc... And to think she loves to accuse me of not listening

to

> her!

>

> She is extremelly self-centered, but she feels she is the

opposite.

> She feels she is a 'good person' and cares so much for others.

This

> is not entirely untrue, but she is only wonderful to others when

she

> isn't feeling threatened, then she is a scary beast. She has a

very

> distorted view of others--either describing friends and family as

> saints or villains, depending on her mood. She also has a very

poor

> memory of past events, especially the ones in which she said the

most

> hateful things.

>

> She has lost two of her best friends this year, and now she is

pushing

> me away. The incident that triggered her pulling away from me

involved

> a friend of ours(who has now cut my mom off). The three of us

were

> having lunch and I started talking about a stressful occurance at

> work. My mom kept trying to interrupt me, and the friend kept

telling

> her to wait until I was done talking (like five times). My mom

gets

> really angry when she is not the center of attention, when she

feels

> she should be. The friend finally said " shut up! I am trying to

> listen to your daughter! " Then the two of them got into a fight

and

> my mom started making her usual statements like " No one ever wants

to

> listen to me! " Poor me syndrome. She talks more than the other

two

> of us put together. Anyway, I had a talk with this friend of ours

> later after she had talked with my mom, and found out she has had

the

> same problems with my mom that I have for years. I know it is my

mom

> and I love her, but I really saw this woman's point of view. My

mom

> says the most ungodly things to her friends when she feels she is

> being rejected. She is incapable of hearing criticism rationally,

her

> responses are purely emotional.

>

> So after this exhausting incident, my mom drove home alone,

because I

> didn't want to be in the car under the influence of her unstable

> mood. I was scared. My mom and her friend had another fight the

next

> day, when the friend came by to pick up her salon supplies(she

does my

> moms hair)and the friend ended up leaving--all the while my mom

> yelling " Don't Leave me too! " My friend had to tear herself out of

my

> mom's embrace to leave.

>

> So yesterday I got a call from my mom to tell me she was at the

> emergency room. And my first emotion was anger. I decided this

time

> I would not drop everything and come running, but let her deal

with it

> on her own. She called back later to tell me how she was--she was

> fine--but I still think it was a ploy to get me to pay immediate

> attention to her. We had a talk and I finally confronted her and

told

> her that I think she can be manipulative sometimes. I offered for

us

> to go to a counselour together to talk about this because I no

longer

> have any interest in her emotional blackmail filled discussions.

I

> think with a third person present she may be forced to confront

that

> she may have a problem.

>

[Guest guest]

My nada falls right smack dab into the same category. Every problem

> I had, every obstacle I encountered, I could count on her to tell

me

> how much worse she had it, steamroll me with stories about

herself,

> talk about " mememe " all darn day. This was particularly difficult

> throughout adolesence, when every problem was " just drama " -- I

> didn't know REAL problems (I did - she gave them to me).

My mom did the same thing to me during my adolescence. She took no

responsibility for her actions. She was a heavy drinker when I was

younger, and was in and out of mental facilities for as long as I

can remember. When I would come home from school she would always

be drunk. I have horribe memories of that time, which I don't think

she remembers because she had so many blackouts. She was

emotionally unavailable to me, and I was actually more of the mother

figure in my home. I had a little brother to protect and my dad

worked all the time(plus he had his own issues)During my

adolescence, when I needed mom most, she had too many of her own

issues to deal with to be there for me. I was criticized for being

emotional, and when we talked she always shifted the focus to

herself. She also would sob like yours and say things like " I am a

good mother, aren't I? " She couldn't bear otherwize and I was too

afraid to tell her. I internalized all the pain for many years.

>

It is so nice to know that other people go through this stuff. I

knew it wasn't just me, but I didn't know where to go or who to talk

to. People who don't have a relationship with a BP family member

just don't uderstand the depth of the manipulations and deceptions

bps go to.

For a while my husband just didn't get what was going on--He has the

most stable family background of any one I know.(And I feel so

blessed to have him)He just thought me and my mom had 'fights'. But

now that we have been married for two years he is beginning to

understand what my mom is doing to me. He sees me getting dragged

down, stressed out, and mistreated. He has seen me on countless

occassions get yanked out of our life to run to her aid. He is very

supportive and validates my feelings when I wonder if I am crazy or

feel lost and confused. It feels good to finally have a stable

family environment of my own. (I didn't for soooo long)

Right now I am struggling with feeling *bad* about confronting my

mom with her behaviour. She hung up on me when I finally told her

how I felt. I love her very much, which is why it hurts so bad. I

know I did what I needed to do, but now that the truth is out there,

I don't know what to do next. I have refrained from calling her

back, because I don't have the energy for the conversation. It took

me two days to recover from the sleep deprivation following this

emotional upheaval. I am finally on my game again and feeling

better, and I am afraid if I call her back too soon, she will take

me back down.

>

> Hi Kwanzan,

>

> You wrote:

> <<I will calmly state how I feel and what I think, and it always

> gets interpreted as hurtful and abusive--no matter how delicately

> put. The fights are exhausting and often end in her making threats

> or statements like: " I wish I was dead. " or " I guess I am just a

> horrible person! " or " You don't appreciate me " etc...All responses

> seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty for the 'horrible' way

I

> have treated her. When I opt out of the conversation for my own

> sanity she often acts drastically to force me to pay attention to

> her>>

>

> My nada falls right smack dab into the same category. Every

problem

> I had, every obstacle I encountered, I could count on her to tell

me

> how much worse she had it, steamroll me with stories about

herself,

> talk about " mememe " all darn day. This was particularly difficult

> throughout adolesence, when every problem was " just drama " -- I

> didn't know REAL problems (I did - she gave them to me).

>

>

> She got remarried over Memorial Day weekend (Sun.), then spent ALL

> day Mon. " celebrating " -- drinking like a fish (if not doing more

> illicit things). I spent the day out with a friend, came home to

> find her PLOWED and wanting " to talk " -- this story is far too

long

> to mash into someone else's thread, but the bottom line is: she

> wanted me to pat her on the head and tell her what a wonderful,

> glorious mother she had been and that none of the abuse or neglect

> ever really happened -- and anything that DID happen didn't have a

> lasting effect, right? RIGHT?!?! I couldn't do it. I couldn't look

> this person in the eye and continue to feed her stories about how

> great she is - truth be told, she should have been put in JAIL for

> what she did to me. Very calmly, I told her that I didn't think

this

> was the right time, blah blah blah . . . she dissolved into a

> blithering, sobbing mess and couldn't string two words together --

> she was a 4 year old having a tantrum. Eventually, she ran

> dramatically from the room, SHARPENED A KNIFE right behind where I

> was sitting, locked herself in the bathroom, and made The Most

> Pathetic, Ridiculous cut on her arm. Bloodied up the walls, yes --

> but the hospital put a band-aid on it (standard issue, 1x2 " ) and

> diagnosed her as BPD.

>

> The cherry on top of seeing your drunk, abusive mother in a bloody

> bathtub with a knife in her hand is hearing her scream to the

> police, " It's her fault! She hates me! She'll never talk to me

> again! " Nothing even remotely close to any of this was said, but

> that's what the police think of me.

>

> While this is one of the more dramatic scenes I've been treated to

> by nada, it was the culmination of a lifetime of physical and

> emotional abuse for me.

> I don't know if she'll ever be honest enough with herself to make

a

> real attempt at change, but at least I can heal myself now, and

this

> group is helping me do that faster than I ever imagined -- I'm

> learning 25492845324 things about myself every day.

>

> Welcome and God Bless,

>

>

>

>

> >

> > For years I have had a very strange and confusing relationship

> with my

> > mother. She is an alcoholic, currently seeking treatment as a

> result

> > of a drinking binge that got her hospitalized and a criminal

> record

> > for assaulting a police officer.

> >

> > Since I was a small child, my mother has manipulated me, my

> brother,

> > and her closest friends. I have always known this, but have

> enabled

> > her behaviour over and over again, by letting her irrational

> > accusations and deceptions slide. It usually begins with some

> form of

> > mild disagreement, and escalates into a horrible battle where no

> > matter what I say or how I say it, she beleives me to be against

> her.

> > I'll say something like " I'm on your side! " and get an answer

> > like: " you were never on my side! " I will calmly state how I

feel

> and

> > what I think, and it always gets interpreted as hurtful and

> abusive--

> > no matter how delicately put. The fights are exhausting and

often

> end

> > in her making threats or statements like: " I wish I was dead. "

> or " I

> > guess I am just a horrible person! " or " You don't appreciate me "

> etc...

> > All responses seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty for

> > the 'horrible' way I have treated her. When I opt out of the

> > conversation for my own sanity she often acts drastically to

force

> me

> > to pay attention to her. She will leave like 10 messages on my

> > phone. The first several are angry and accusatory. Then she

> resorts

> > to making hints that she will end her life because no one

> understands

> > her or values her. She will then drink and/or become extremely

> > depressive and call the cops to take her to the hospitol. Then

I

> get

> > a call from her to let me know she is in the hospitol. This

most

> > drastic reaction happens most when I don't give her the

attention

> she

> > wants when she wants it. So I end up having to put my life on

> hold

> > and deal with hers. On the other hand, if I call her back and

say

> I'm

> > sorry or it's ok, she calms down---I basically have to justify

her

> > behaviour and everything is ok.

> >

> > If I didn't value her I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, I

> would

> > just cut her off. Her behaviour is irrational and unfair to

me.

> I go

> > out of my way on far too many occasions to listen to her talk

> about

> > her self, often for hours on the phone. Sometimes she calls

just

> > to 'talk' but what she is really doing is looking for constant

> > reassurance from me. I will listen for hours about every single

> > detail of her day--she leaves no stone unturned--while I might

get

> a

> > few sentences in. Most of the conversation is me going " uh-

> oh " " oh, i

> > see " etc... And to think she loves to accuse me of not

listening

> to

> > her!

> >

> > She is extremelly self-centered, but she feels she is the

> opposite.

> > She feels she is a 'good person' and cares so much for others.

> This

> > is not entirely untrue, but she is only wonderful to others when

> she

> > isn't feeling threatened, then she is a scary beast. She has a

> very

> > distorted view of others--either describing friends and family

as

> > saints or villains, depending on her mood. She also has a very

> poor

> > memory of past events, especially the ones in which she said the

> most

> > hateful things.

> >

> > She has lost two of her best friends this year, and now she is

> pushing

> > me away. The incident that triggered her pulling away from me

> involved

> > a friend of ours(who has now cut my mom off). The three of us

> were

> > having lunch and I started talking about a stressful occurance

at

> > work. My mom kept trying to interrupt me, and the friend kept

> telling

> > her to wait until I was done talking (like five times). My mom

> gets

> > really angry when she is not the center of attention, when she

> feels

> > she should be. The friend finally said " shut up! I am trying to

> > listen to your daughter! " Then the two of them got into a fight

> and

> > my mom started making her usual statements like " No one ever

wants

> to

> > listen to me! " Poor me syndrome. She talks more than the other

> two

> > of us put together. Anyway, I had a talk with this friend of

ours

> > later after she had talked with my mom, and found out she has

had

> the

> > same problems with my mom that I have for years. I know it is

my

> mom

> > and I love her, but I really saw this woman's point of view. My

> mom

> > says the most ungodly things to her friends when she feels she

is

> > being rejected. She is incapable of hearing criticism

rationally,

> her

> > responses are purely emotional.

> >

> > So after this exhausting incident, my mom drove home alone,

> because I

> > didn't want to be in the car under the influence of her unstable

> > mood. I was scared. My mom and her friend had another fight

the

> next

> > day, when the friend came by to pick up her salon supplies(she

> does my

> > moms hair)and the friend ended up leaving--all the while my mom

> > yelling " Don't Leave me too! " My friend had to tear herself out

of

> my

> > mom's embrace to leave.

> >

> > So yesterday I got a call from my mom to tell me she was at the

> > emergency room. And my first emotion was anger. I decided this

> time

> > I would not drop everything and come running, but let her deal

> with it

> > on her own. She called back later to tell me how she was--she

was

> > fine--but I still think it was a ploy to get me to pay immediate

> > attention to her. We had a talk and I finally confronted her

and

> told

> > her that I think she can be manipulative sometimes. I offered

for

> us

> > to go to a counselour together to talk about this because I no

> longer

> > have any interest in her emotional blackmail filled

discussions.

> I

> > think with a third person present she may be forced to confront

> that

> > she may have a problem.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, she sounds like a classic case to me...and frankly, I wouldn't

bet on therapy doing anything at all.

Are you absolutely determined to have a relationship with her? You

sound like you're well on your way down the road towards seeing the

truth that SHE'S the one with the disorder, not you. If you think you

need therapy, by all means, get some. But you going into therapy isn't

going to change her one whit. Your committment won't make her want to

make one--what you do doesn't matter to her at all. Besides, if being

with her is toxic, the direction you ought to be moving is AWAY, not

closer together in intense therapy. And BP's are legendary for using

therapy to gather further ammo against you, or turning the counselor

to their side. It may work, but you need to keep in mind that it has

less of a chance of working with a BP than with a non-BP.

Good luck and keep posting about what you feel, it helps everyone...

Love,

Vi

>

> For years I have had a very strange and confusing relationship with my

> mother. She is an alcoholic, currently seeking treatment as a result

> of a drinking binge that got her hospitalized and a criminal record

> for assaulting a police officer.

>

> Since I was a small child, my mother has manipulated me, my brother,

> and her closest friends. I have always known this, but have enabled

> her behaviour over and over again, by letting her irrational

> accusations and deceptions slide. It usually begins with some form of

> mild disagreement, and escalates into a horrible battle where no

> matter what I say or how I say it, she beleives me to be against her.

> I'll say something like " I'm on your side! " and get an answer

> like: " you were never on my side! " I will calmly state how I feel and

> what I think, and it always gets interpreted as hurtful and abusive--

> no matter how delicately put. The fights are exhausting and often end

> in her making threats or statements like: " I wish I was dead. " or " I

> guess I am just a horrible person! " or " You don't appreciate me " etc...

> All responses seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty for

> the 'horrible' way I have treated her. When I opt out of the

> conversation for my own sanity she often acts drastically to force me

> to pay attention to her. She will leave like 10 messages on my

> phone. The first several are angry and accusatory. Then she resorts

> to making hints that she will end her life because no one understands

> her or values her. She will then drink and/or become extremely

> depressive and call the cops to take her to the hospitol. Then I get

> a call from her to let me know she is in the hospitol. This most

> drastic reaction happens most when I don't give her the attention she

> wants when she wants it. So I end up having to put my life on hold

> and deal with hers. On the other hand, if I call her back and say I'm

> sorry or it's ok, she calms down---I basically have to justify her

> behaviour and everything is ok.

>

> If I didn't value her I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, I would

> just cut her off. Her behaviour is irrational and unfair to me. I go

> out of my way on far too many occasions to listen to her talk about

> her self, often for hours on the phone. Sometimes she calls just

> to 'talk' but what she is really doing is looking for constant

> reassurance from me. I will listen for hours about every single

> detail of her day--she leaves no stone unturned--while I might get a

> few sentences in. Most of the conversation is me going " uh-oh " " oh, i

> see " etc... And to think she loves to accuse me of not listening to

> her!

>

> She is extremelly self-centered, but she feels she is the opposite.

> She feels she is a 'good person' and cares so much for others. This

> is not entirely untrue, but she is only wonderful to others when she

> isn't feeling threatened, then she is a scary beast. She has a very

> distorted view of others--either describing friends and family as

> saints or villains, depending on her mood. She also has a very poor

> memory of past events, especially the ones in which she said the most

> hateful things.

>

> She has lost two of her best friends this year, and now she is pushing

> me away. The incident that triggered her pulling away from me involved

> a friend of ours(who has now cut my mom off). The three of us were

> having lunch and I started talking about a stressful occurance at

> work. My mom kept trying to interrupt me, and the friend kept telling

> her to wait until I was done talking (like five times). My mom gets

> really angry when she is not the center of attention, when she feels

> she should be. The friend finally said " shut up! I am trying to

> listen to your daughter! " Then the two of them got into a fight and

> my mom started making her usual statements like " No one ever wants to

> listen to me! " Poor me syndrome. She talks more than the other two

> of us put together. Anyway, I had a talk with this friend of ours

> later after she had talked with my mom, and found out she has had the

> same problems with my mom that I have for years. I know it is my mom

> and I love her, but I really saw this woman's point of view. My mom

> says the most ungodly things to her friends when she feels she is

> being rejected. She is incapable of hearing criticism rationally, her

> responses are purely emotional.

>

> So after this exhausting incident, my mom drove home alone, because I

> didn't want to be in the car under the influence of her unstable

> mood. I was scared. My mom and her friend had another fight the next

> day, when the friend came by to pick up her salon supplies(she does my

> moms hair)and the friend ended up leaving--all the while my mom

> yelling " Don't Leave me too! " My friend had to tear herself out of my

> mom's embrace to leave.

>

> So yesterday I got a call from my mom to tell me she was at the

> emergency room. And my first emotion was anger. I decided this time

> I would not drop everything and come running, but let her deal with it

> on her own. She called back later to tell me how she was--she was

> fine--but I still think it was a ploy to get me to pay immediate

> attention to her. We had a talk and I finally confronted her and told

> her that I think she can be manipulative sometimes. I offered for us

> to go to a counselour together to talk about this because I no longer

> have any interest in her emotional blackmail filled discussions. I

> think with a third person present she may be forced to confront that

> she may have a problem.

>

[Guest guest]

kwanzan:

Glad you're here -- and so glad to see you have a supportive

husband. I have kind of a similar history to yours, and married a

good man from a good " normal " family (who knew they were out there!!

LOL!)

A couple of things from your post caught my eye and I thought you

might want to give them some thought:

<< " He has seen me on countless

occassions get yanked out of our life to run to her aid. " >>

You are a married, adult woman now. No one " yanks " you like a child

anymore unless you let them. Let your mother start dealing with her

own life. Do you not think you've sacrificed enough of yourself to

her situation? (The times you were denied a calm, healthy household

to walk into every day from school, etc.?) You were forced to

sacrifice that to her condition. Now that you're an adult, you can

CHOOSE to let her live her own life so you can live yours. You owe

that to your husband. You do not owe free, round the clock

catastrophe care to your mother.

<< " Right now I am struggling with feeling *bad* about confronting my

> mom with her behaviour. She hung up on me when I finally told her

> how I felt. I love her very much, which is why it hurts so bad. " >>

Yes, it's a very common theme here with all of us -- we've all been

conditioned to think we're responsible for their feelings, when the

truth is YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER FEELINGS. SHE IS.

" Confronting " isn't necessarily what you need to do. If you start

drawing boundaries as to what you're willing to do to help her (and

it needs to be a LOT LESS than what you've done over the years, I

think), then that will send the message to her loud and clear that

something has changed. You've changed.

Good for you for telling her how you felt. You have FEELINGS! They

MATTER! What a novel concept! We have all been taught that our

feelings, our voice, our very existence DOESN'T MATTER. AND THAT IS

A LIE.

The truth is: YOU EXIST. You are here. This is your life, too.

Up to this point, you've merely been an appendage of hers. It's up

to you to break off and go live your own life. You're in a marriage

of your own now, it's past time to cut the apron strings, and stop

being your alcoholic mother's caregiver. You deserve more than that.

<< " I know I did what I needed to do, but now that the truth is out

there, I don't know what to do next. " >>

Start living your life without the fear that the phone is going to

ring or that you need to be available to rush to your mother's

side. Let her have whatever reaction she's going to have -- it's

not your business to manage her emotions. To walk on eggshells so

she doesn't have certain feelings, etc.....

Start making plans with and focusing on your husband and your life

with him. Period. You can't have a marriage and fail to leave your

family at the same time. Healthy moms and dads know this. They

expect it. They welcome it -- even ENCOURAGE it. We haven't had

that encouragement, so we must do it ourselves.

<< " I have refrained from calling her back, because I don't have the

energy for the conversation.>> "

GOOD. Don't call her back. You're only trying to rescue her from

her feelings. For once, let her FEEL what it feels like to have

people react NORMALLY to her behavior.

<< " It took me two days to recover from the sleep deprivation

following this emotional upheaval. I am finally on my game again and

feeling better, and I am afraid if I call her back too soon, she

will take me back down. " >>

Then I would say you need to take as much time as you need away from

her to get yourself together. She takes too much out of you --

declare a timeout from her upheaval -- declare that you need time,

space and distance so that you can get your equilibrium back because

you have a marriage and a husband to consider. That is NOW your

first priority. Remember walking up that aisle and saying those

vows?

Some of us have gone " No Contact " (NC) or " Low Contact " (LC) until

we are strong enough to deal with our nadas and fadas in a healthy

way. You deserve that, too.

Have you read " Stop Walking on Eggshells? " , or " Understanding the

Borderline Mother? " .....If I were in your shoes, I would take some

time off from mom's emotional upheavals and get some of those books

and use that " no contact " time to chart a new course for my life.

You deserve it. You've put in ENOUGH precious time out of your life

serving her dysfunction.

You were put in this world for a purpose -- and it wasn't to clean

up after your mother at the expense of yourself. You are here --

for a limited time! -- make the most of it.

{hugs}

Kyla

> > >

> > > For years I have had a very strange and confusing relationship

> > with my

> > > mother. She is an alcoholic, currently seeking treatment as a

> > result

> > > of a drinking binge that got her hospitalized and a criminal

> > record

> > > for assaulting a police officer.

> > >

> > > Since I was a small child, my mother has manipulated me, my

> > brother,

> > > and her closest friends. I have always known this, but have

> > enabled

> > > her behaviour over and over again, by letting her irrational

> > > accusations and deceptions slide. It usually begins with some

> > form of

> > > mild disagreement, and escalates into a horrible battle where

no

> > > matter what I say or how I say it, she beleives me to be

against

> > her.

> > > I'll say something like " I'm on your side! " and get an answer

> > > like: " you were never on my side! " I will calmly state how I

> feel

> > and

> > > what I think, and it always gets interpreted as hurtful and

> > abusive--

> > > no matter how delicately put. The fights are exhausting and

> often

> > end

> > > in her making threats or statements like: " I wish I was dead. "

> > or " I

> > > guess I am just a horrible person! " or " You don't appreciate

me "

> > etc...

> > > All responses seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty for

> > > the 'horrible' way I have treated her. When I opt out of the

> > > conversation for my own sanity she often acts drastically to

> force

> > me

> > > to pay attention to her. She will leave like 10 messages on

my

> > > phone. The first several are angry and accusatory. Then she

> > resorts

> > > to making hints that she will end her life because no one

> > understands

> > > her or values her. She will then drink and/or become

extremely

> > > depressive and call the cops to take her to the hospitol.

Then

> I

> > get

> > > a call from her to let me know she is in the hospitol. This

> most

> > > drastic reaction happens most when I don't give her the

> attention

> > she

> > > wants when she wants it. So I end up having to put my life on

> > hold

> > > and deal with hers. On the other hand, if I call her back and

> say

> > I'm

> > > sorry or it's ok, she calms down---I basically have to justify

> her

> > > behaviour and everything is ok.

> > >

> > > If I didn't value her I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, I

> > would

> > > just cut her off. Her behaviour is irrational and unfair to

> me.

> > I go

> > > out of my way on far too many occasions to listen to her talk

> > about

> > > her self, often for hours on the phone. Sometimes she calls

> just

> > > to 'talk' but what she is really doing is looking for constant

> > > reassurance from me. I will listen for hours about every

single

> > > detail of her day--she leaves no stone unturned--while I might

> get

> > a

> > > few sentences in. Most of the conversation is me going " uh-

> > oh " " oh, i

> > > see " etc... And to think she loves to accuse me of not

> listening

> > to

> > > her!

> > >

> > > She is extremelly self-centered, but she feels she is the

> > opposite.

> > > She feels she is a 'good person' and cares so much for

others.

> > This

> > > is not entirely untrue, but she is only wonderful to others

when

> > she

> > > isn't feeling threatened, then she is a scary beast. She has

a

> > very

> > > distorted view of others--either describing friends and family

> as

> > > saints or villains, depending on her mood. She also has a

very

> > poor

> > > memory of past events, especially the ones in which she said

the

> > most

> > > hateful things.

> > >

> > > She has lost two of her best friends this year, and now she is

> > pushing

> > > me away. The incident that triggered her pulling away from me

> > involved

> > > a friend of ours(who has now cut my mom off). The three of us

> > were

> > > having lunch and I started talking about a stressful occurance

> at

> > > work. My mom kept trying to interrupt me, and the friend kept

> > telling

> > > her to wait until I was done talking (like five times). My

mom

> > gets

> > > really angry when she is not the center of attention, when she

> > feels

> > > she should be. The friend finally said " shut up! I am trying

to

> > > listen to your daughter! " Then the two of them got into a

fight

> > and

> > > my mom started making her usual statements like " No one ever

> wants

> > to

> > > listen to me! " Poor me syndrome. She talks more than the

other

> > two

> > > of us put together. Anyway, I had a talk with this friend of

> ours

> > > later after she had talked with my mom, and found out she has

> had

> > the

> > > same problems with my mom that I have for years. I know it is

> my

> > mom

> > > and I love her, but I really saw this woman's point of view.

My

> > mom

> > > says the most ungodly things to her friends when she feels she

> is

> > > being rejected. She is incapable of hearing criticism

> rationally,

> > her

> > > responses are purely emotional.

> > >

> > > So after this exhausting incident, my mom drove home alone,

> > because I

> > > didn't want to be in the car under the influence of her

unstable

> > > mood. I was scared. My mom and her friend had another fight

> the

> > next

> > > day, when the friend came by to pick up her salon supplies(she

> > does my

> > > moms hair)and the friend ended up leaving--all the while my

mom

> > > yelling " Don't Leave me too! " My friend had to tear herself

out

> of

> > my

> > > mom's embrace to leave.

> > >

> > > So yesterday I got a call from my mom to tell me she was at

the

> > > emergency room. And my first emotion was anger. I decided

this

> > time

> > > I would not drop everything and come running, but let her deal

> > with it

> > > on her own. She called back later to tell me how she was--she

> was

> > > fine--but I still think it was a ploy to get me to pay

immediate

> > > attention to her. We had a talk and I finally confronted her

> and

> > told

> > > her that I think she can be manipulative sometimes. I offered

> for

> > us

> > > to go to a counselour together to talk about this because I no

> > longer

> > > have any interest in her emotional blackmail filled

> discussions.

> > I

> > > think with a third person present she may be forced to

confront

> > that

> > > she may have a problem.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

More book recommendations from posters here: " Boundaries " by Henry

Cloud; " Surviving a Borderline Parent " by Kimberlee Roth; " Children

of the Self-Absorbed " by Brown; " Emotional Blackmail " by

Forward;

These books have helped me, and others here, enormously. Some have

called them lifesaving.

{hugs}

Kyla

> > >

> > > For years I have had a very strange and confusing relationship

> > with my

> > > mother. She is an alcoholic, currently seeking treatment as a

> > result

> > > of a drinking binge that got her hospitalized and a criminal

> > record

> > > for assaulting a police officer.

> > >

> > > Since I was a small child, my mother has manipulated me, my

> > brother,

> > > and her closest friends. I have always known this, but have

> > enabled

> > > her behaviour over and over again, by letting her irrational

> > > accusations and deceptions slide. It usually begins with some

> > form of

> > > mild disagreement, and escalates into a horrible battle where

no

> > > matter what I say or how I say it, she beleives me to be

against

> > her.

> > > I'll say something like " I'm on your side! " and get an answer

> > > like: " you were never on my side! " I will calmly state how I

> feel

> > and

> > > what I think, and it always gets interpreted as hurtful and

> > abusive--

> > > no matter how delicately put. The fights are exhausting and

> often

> > end

> > > in her making threats or statements like: " I wish I was dead. "

> > or " I

> > > guess I am just a horrible person! " or " You don't appreciate

me "

> > etc...

> > > All responses seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty for

> > > the 'horrible' way I have treated her. When I opt out of the

> > > conversation for my own sanity she often acts drastically to

> force

> > me

> > > to pay attention to her. She will leave like 10 messages on

my

> > > phone. The first several are angry and accusatory. Then she

> > resorts

> > > to making hints that she will end her life because no one

> > understands

> > > her or values her. She will then drink and/or become

extremely

> > > depressive and call the cops to take her to the hospitol.

Then

> I

> > get

> > > a call from her to let me know she is in the hospitol. This

> most

> > > drastic reaction happens most when I don't give her the

> attention

> > she

> > > wants when she wants it. So I end up having to put my life on

> > hold

> > > and deal with hers. On the other hand, if I call her back and

> say

> > I'm

> > > sorry or it's ok, she calms down---I basically have to justify

> her

> > > behaviour and everything is ok.

> > >

> > > If I didn't value her I wouldn't put up with this behaviour, I

> > would

> > > just cut her off. Her behaviour is irrational and unfair to

> me.

> > I go

> > > out of my way on far too many occasions to listen to her talk

> > about

> > > her self, often for hours on the phone. Sometimes she calls

> just

> > > to 'talk' but what she is really doing is looking for constant

> > > reassurance from me. I will listen for hours about every

single

> > > detail of her day--she leaves no stone unturned--while I might

> get

> > a

> > > few sentences in. Most of the conversation is me going " uh-

> > oh " " oh, i

> > > see " etc... And to think she loves to accuse me of not

> listening

> > to

> > > her!

> > >

> > > She is extremelly self-centered, but she feels she is the

> > opposite.

> > > She feels she is a 'good person' and cares so much for

others.

> > This

> > > is not entirely untrue, but she is only wonderful to others

when

> > she

> > > isn't feeling threatened, then she is a scary beast. She has

a

> > very

> > > distorted view of others--either describing friends and family

> as

> > > saints or villains, depending on her mood. She also has a

very

> > poor

> > > memory of past events, especially the ones in which she said

the

> > most

> > > hateful things.

> > >

> > > She has lost two of her best friends this year, and now she is

> > pushing

> > > me away. The incident that triggered her pulling away from me

> > involved

> > > a friend of ours(who has now cut my mom off). The three of us

> > were

> > > having lunch and I started talking about a stressful occurance

> at

> > > work. My mom kept trying to interrupt me, and the friend kept

> > telling

> > > her to wait until I was done talking (like five times). My

mom

> > gets

> > > really angry when she is not the center of attention, when she

> > feels

> > > she should be. The friend finally said " shut up! I am trying

to

> > > listen to your daughter! " Then the two of them got into a

fight

> > and

> > > my mom started making her usual statements like " No one ever

> wants

> > to

> > > listen to me! " Poor me syndrome. She talks more than the

other

> > two

> > > of us put together. Anyway, I had a talk with this friend of

> ours

> > > later after she had talked with my mom, and found out she has

> had

> > the

> > > same problems with my mom that I have for years. I know it is

> my

> > mom

> > > and I love her, but I really saw this woman's point of view.

My

> > mom

> > > says the most ungodly things to her friends when she feels she

> is

> > > being rejected. She is incapable of hearing criticism

> rationally,

> > her

> > > responses are purely emotional.

> > >

> > > So after this exhausting incident, my mom drove home alone,

> > because I

> > > didn't want to be in the car under the influence of her

unstable

> > > mood. I was scared. My mom and her friend had another fight

> the

> > next

> > > day, when the friend came by to pick up her salon supplies(she

> > does my

> > > moms hair)and the friend ended up leaving--all the while my

mom

> > > yelling " Don't Leave me too! " My friend had to tear herself

out

> of

> > my

> > > mom's embrace to leave.

> > >

> > > So yesterday I got a call from my mom to tell me she was at

the

> > > emergency room. And my first emotion was anger. I decided

this

> > time

> > > I would not drop everything and come running, but let her deal

> > with it

> > > on her own. She called back later to tell me how she was--she

> was

> > > fine--but I still think it was a ploy to get me to pay

immediate

> > > attention to her. We had a talk and I finally confronted her

> and

> > told

> > > her that I think she can be manipulative sometimes. I offered

> for

> > us

> > > to go to a counselour together to talk about this because I no

> > longer

> > > have any interest in her emotional blackmail filled

> discussions.

> > I

> > > think with a third person present she may be forced to

confront

> > that

> > > she may have a problem.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow! Thanks for the great insight Kyla.

I have actually come to the conclusion myself about my husband and I

being #1. I think that is why he is so supportive--he knows I am

FINALLY starting to set those crucial boundaries. I told him that

our marriage is our first priority. I just have to start really

being consistent with keeping my new boundaries. So far so good,

but it has only been 3 days now. I hope that the more I keep the

boundaries in place, the easier it will get and the anxiety and

obsessive thoughts about hurting her feelings will pass. I know it

will take both time and strengh, but I am willing to do what I have

to. My husband is a blessing to me and I want us both to be the

healthiest we can be before we decide to have kids. I want to be a

loving and emotionally available mother, which means I have to leave

my 'bp mom baggage' behind. I really feel ready for this challenge

for the first time in my life.

I have already set a few boundaries whether my mom realizes it yet

or not.

#1 No more calling her back when she hangs up on me or leaves

hateful or poor me messages on my phone. If she wants to engage in

4 year old behavior, she can do it with a counselor (because at

least they get paid for listening to that stuff!)

#2 When I am speaking her I won't say things like " It's ok " or " I'm

sorry " , when I am NOT sorry and it is NOT ok.

#3 I will not run to her rescue every time she is in the hospitol.

If she is dying that is one thing, but otherwise she can get help

herself--that is what doctors are for. I don't have a pHd, duh!

I might take you up on those books--they sound like they could give

me some good pointers. I also would like to find a therapist that

has a good background in BPD. Just because I don't have it, doesn't

mean I don't need help too. Plus I know I have emulated some of my

mom's BP behavior in the past(that is how she taught me to deal with

stress--through her actions), and I want to be good and sure I see

it coming if it ever sneaks up on me again!

Thanks again for responding with such care to my post, Kyla

wrote:

>

> kwanzan:

>

> Glad you're here -- and so glad to see you have a supportive

> husband. I have kind of a similar history to yours, and married a

> good man from a good " normal " family (who knew they were out

there!!

> LOL!)

>

> A couple of things from your post caught my eye and I thought you

> might want to give them some thought:

>

> << " He has seen me on countless

> occassions get yanked out of our life to run to her aid. " >>

>

> You are a married, adult woman now. No one " yanks " you like a

child

> anymore unless you let them. Let your mother start dealing with

her

> own life. Do you not think you've sacrificed enough of yourself

to

> her situation? (The times you were denied a calm, healthy

household

> to walk into every day from school, etc.?) You were forced to

> sacrifice that to her condition. Now that you're an adult, you

can

> CHOOSE to let her live her own life so you can live yours. You

owe

> that to your husband. You do not owe free, round the clock

> catastrophe care to your mother.

>

> << " Right now I am struggling with feeling *bad* about confronting

my

> > mom with her behaviour. She hung up on me when I finally told

her

> > how I felt. I love her very much, which is why it hurts so

bad. " >>

>

> Yes, it's a very common theme here with all of us -- we've all

been

> conditioned to think we're responsible for their feelings, when

the

> truth is YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER FEELINGS. SHE IS.

>

> " Confronting " isn't necessarily what you need to do. If you start

> drawing boundaries as to what you're willing to do to help her

(and

> it needs to be a LOT LESS than what you've done over the years, I

> think), then that will send the message to her loud and clear that

> something has changed. You've changed.

>

> Good for you for telling her how you felt. You have FEELINGS!

They

> MATTER! What a novel concept! We have all been taught that our

> feelings, our voice, our very existence DOESN'T MATTER. AND THAT

IS

> A LIE.

>

> The truth is: YOU EXIST. You are here. This is your life, too.

> Up to this point, you've merely been an appendage of hers. It's

up

> to you to break off and go live your own life. You're in a

marriage

> of your own now, it's past time to cut the apron strings, and stop

> being your alcoholic mother's caregiver. You deserve more than

that.

>

> << " I know I did what I needed to do, but now that the truth is out

> there, I don't know what to do next. " >>

>

> Start living your life without the fear that the phone is going to

> ring or that you need to be available to rush to your mother's

> side. Let her have whatever reaction she's going to have -- it's

> not your business to manage her emotions. To walk on eggshells so

> she doesn't have certain feelings, etc.....

>

> Start making plans with and focusing on your husband and your life

> with him. Period. You can't have a marriage and fail to leave

your

> family at the same time. Healthy moms and dads know this. They

> expect it. They welcome it -- even ENCOURAGE it. We haven't had

> that encouragement, so we must do it ourselves.

>

> << " I have refrained from calling her back, because I don't have

the

> energy for the conversation.>> "

>

> GOOD. Don't call her back. You're only trying to rescue her from

> her feelings. For once, let her FEEL what it feels like to have

> people react NORMALLY to her behavior.

>

> << " It took me two days to recover from the sleep deprivation

> following this emotional upheaval. I am finally on my game again

and

> feeling better, and I am afraid if I call her back too soon, she

> will take me back down. " >>

>

> Then I would say you need to take as much time as you need away

from

> her to get yourself together. She takes too much out of you --

> declare a timeout from her upheaval -- declare that you need time,

> space and distance so that you can get your equilibrium back

because

> you have a marriage and a husband to consider. That is NOW your

> first priority. Remember walking up that aisle and saying those

> vows?

>

> Some of us have gone " No Contact " (NC) or " Low Contact " (LC) until

> we are strong enough to deal with our nadas and fadas in a healthy

> way. You deserve that, too.

>

> Have you read " Stop Walking on Eggshells? " , or " Understanding the

> Borderline Mother? " .....If I were in your shoes, I would take some

> time off from mom's emotional upheavals and get some of those

books

> and use that " no contact " time to chart a new course for my life.

>

> You deserve it. You've put in ENOUGH precious time out of your

life

> serving her dysfunction.

>

> You were put in this world for a purpose -- and it wasn't to clean

> up after your mother at the expense of yourself. You are here --

> for a limited time! -- make the most of it.

>

> {hugs}

> Kyla

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > For years I have had a very strange and confusing

relationship

> > > with my

> > > > mother. She is an alcoholic, currently seeking treatment as

a

> > > result

> > > > of a drinking binge that got her hospitalized and a criminal

> > > record

> > > > for assaulting a police officer.

> > > >

> > > > Since I was a small child, my mother has manipulated me, my

> > > brother,

> > > > and her closest friends. I have always known this, but have

> > > enabled

> > > > her behaviour over and over again, by letting her irrational

> > > > accusations and deceptions slide. It usually begins with

some

> > > form of

> > > > mild disagreement, and escalates into a horrible battle

where

> no

> > > > matter what I say or how I say it, she beleives me to be

> against

> > > her.

> > > > I'll say something like " I'm on your side! " and get an

answer

> > > > like: " you were never on my side! " I will calmly state how I

> > feel

> > > and

> > > > what I think, and it always gets interpreted as hurtful and

> > > abusive--

> > > > no matter how delicately put. The fights are exhausting and

> > often

> > > end

> > > > in her making threats or statements like: " I wish I was

dead. "

> > > or " I

> > > > guess I am just a horrible person! " or " You don't appreciate

> me "

> > > etc...

> > > > All responses seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty

for

> > > > the 'horrible' way I have treated her. When I opt out of

the

> > > > conversation for my own sanity she often acts drastically to

> > force

> > > me

> > > > to pay attention to her. She will leave like 10 messages on

> my

> > > > phone. The first several are angry and accusatory. Then

she

> > > resorts

> > > > to making hints that she will end her life because no one

> > > understands

> > > > her or values her. She will then drink and/or become

> extremely

> > > > depressive and call the cops to take her to the hospitol.

> Then

> > I

> > > get

> > > > a call from her to let me know she is in the hospitol. This

> > most

> > > > drastic reaction happens most when I don't give her the

> > attention

> > > she

> > > > wants when she wants it. So I end up having to put my life

on

> > > hold

> > > > and deal with hers. On the other hand, if I call her back

and

> > say

> > > I'm

> > > > sorry or it's ok, she calms down---I basically have to

justify

> > her

> > > > behaviour and everything is ok.

> > > >

> > > > If I didn't value her I wouldn't put up with this behaviour,

I

> > > would

> > > > just cut her off. Her behaviour is irrational and unfair to

> > me.

> > > I go

> > > > out of my way on far too many occasions to listen to her

talk

> > > about

> > > > her self, often for hours on the phone. Sometimes she calls

> > just

> > > > to 'talk' but what she is really doing is looking for

constant

> > > > reassurance from me. I will listen for hours about every

> single

> > > > detail of her day--she leaves no stone unturned--while I

might

> > get

> > > a

> > > > few sentences in. Most of the conversation is me going " uh-

> > > oh " " oh, i

> > > > see " etc... And to think she loves to accuse me of not

> > listening

> > > to

> > > > her!

> > > >

> > > > She is extremelly self-centered, but she feels she is the

> > > opposite.

> > > > She feels she is a 'good person' and cares so much for

> others.

> > > This

> > > > is not entirely untrue, but she is only wonderful to others

> when

> > > she

> > > > isn't feeling threatened, then she is a scary beast. She

has

> a

> > > very

> > > > distorted view of others--either describing friends and

family

> > as

> > > > saints or villains, depending on her mood. She also has a

> very

> > > poor

> > > > memory of past events, especially the ones in which she said

> the

> > > most

> > > > hateful things.

> > > >

> > > > She has lost two of her best friends this year, and now she

is

> > > pushing

> > > > me away. The incident that triggered her pulling away from

me

> > > involved

> > > > a friend of ours(who has now cut my mom off). The three of

us

> > > were

> > > > having lunch and I started talking about a stressful

occurance

> > at

> > > > work. My mom kept trying to interrupt me, and the friend

kept

> > > telling

> > > > her to wait until I was done talking (like five times). My

> mom

> > > gets

> > > > really angry when she is not the center of attention, when

she

> > > feels

> > > > she should be. The friend finally said " shut up! I am

trying

> to

> > > > listen to your daughter! " Then the two of them got into a

> fight

> > > and

> > > > my mom started making her usual statements like " No one ever

> > wants

> > > to

> > > > listen to me! " Poor me syndrome. She talks more than the

> other

> > > two

> > > > of us put together. Anyway, I had a talk with this friend

of

> > ours

> > > > later after she had talked with my mom, and found out she

has

> > had

> > > the

> > > > same problems with my mom that I have for years. I know it

is

> > my

> > > mom

> > > > and I love her, but I really saw this woman's point of

view.

> My

> > > mom

> > > > says the most ungodly things to her friends when she feels

she

> > is

> > > > being rejected. She is incapable of hearing criticism

> > rationally,

> > > her

> > > > responses are purely emotional.

> > > >

> > > > So after this exhausting incident, my mom drove home alone,

> > > because I

> > > > didn't want to be in the car under the influence of her

> unstable

> > > > mood. I was scared. My mom and her friend had another

fight

> > the

> > > next

> > > > day, when the friend came by to pick up her salon supplies

(she

> > > does my

> > > > moms hair)and the friend ended up leaving--all the while my

> mom

> > > > yelling " Don't Leave me too! " My friend had to tear herself

> out

> > of

> > > my

> > > > mom's embrace to leave.

> > > >

> > > > So yesterday I got a call from my mom to tell me she was at

> the

> > > > emergency room. And my first emotion was anger. I decided

> this

> > > time

> > > > I would not drop everything and come running, but let her

deal

> > > with it

> > > > on her own. She called back later to tell me how she was--

she

> > was

> > > > fine--but I still think it was a ploy to get me to pay

> immediate

> > > > attention to her. We had a talk and I finally confronted

her

> > and

> > > told

> > > > her that I think she can be manipulative sometimes. I

offered

> > for

> > > us

> > > > to go to a counselour together to talk about this because I

no

> > > longer

> > > > have any interest in her emotional blackmail filled

> > discussions.

> > > I

> > > > think with a third person present she may be forced to

> confront

> > > that

> > > > she may have a problem.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Bravo! I like your goals. I've had them written down -- and

phrases written down -- to refer to when getting ready to talk to my

nada on the phone. It helps me stay rooted on the ground, and not

suseptible to her sweeping me away in her emotional hurricane.

And one other note of caution: when a BPD senses a change in your

behavior, they simply turn up the pressure to try and get you to

abandon your newfound backbone and make you come running back.

Then, all is right again with their world. Be aware that they do

this.

That includes them saying they're " dying " when they're not! That

includes increasing their drama so you'll break and ditch that

newfound assertiveness. ( " How dare you live your own life! " )

The BPD condition REQUIRES them to force you to serve them. When

you refuse to, their nicely constructed universe is threatened, and

they can no longer engage in denial. This is when they can get

really NASTY. Let it happen. It might as well. You're not

responsible for holding up the dam anymore. Walk away and let the

chips fall. It's high time they did.

By living your own life, she is forced to look at hers, and it's

harder for her to stay in denial when that is the case.

Just be aware of the increasing pressure, and stand up to it. Don't

play her denial game anymore. Your benefit comes first, but you

living your own life, with your own boundaries, has the potential to

benefit both of you.

-Kyla

> > > > >

> > > > > For years I have had a very strange and confusing

> relationship

> > > > with my

> > > > > mother. She is an alcoholic, currently seeking treatment

as

> a

> > > > result

> > > > > of a drinking binge that got her hospitalized and a

criminal

> > > > record

> > > > > for assaulting a police officer.

> > > > >

> > > > > Since I was a small child, my mother has manipulated me,

my

> > > > brother,

> > > > > and her closest friends. I have always known this, but

have

> > > > enabled

> > > > > her behaviour over and over again, by letting her

irrational

> > > > > accusations and deceptions slide. It usually begins with

> some

> > > > form of

> > > > > mild disagreement, and escalates into a horrible battle

> where

> > no

> > > > > matter what I say or how I say it, she beleives me to be

> > against

> > > > her.

> > > > > I'll say something like " I'm on your side! " and get an

> answer

> > > > > like: " you were never on my side! " I will calmly state how

I

> > > feel

> > > > and

> > > > > what I think, and it always gets interpreted as hurtful

and

> > > > abusive--

> > > > > no matter how delicately put. The fights are exhausting

and

> > > often

> > > > end

> > > > > in her making threats or statements like: " I wish I was

> dead. "

> > > > or " I

> > > > > guess I am just a horrible person! " or " You don't

appreciate

> > me "

> > > > etc...

> > > > > All responses seemed to be aimed at making me feel guilty

> for

> > > > > the 'horrible' way I have treated her. When I opt out of

> the

> > > > > conversation for my own sanity she often acts drastically

to

> > > force

> > > > me

> > > > > to pay attention to her. She will leave like 10 messages

on

> > my

> > > > > phone. The first several are angry and accusatory. Then

> she

> > > > resorts

> > > > > to making hints that she will end her life because no one

> > > > understands

> > > > > her or values her. She will then drink and/or become

> > extremely

> > > > > depressive and call the cops to take her to the hospitol.

> > Then

> > > I

> > > > get

> > > > > a call from her to let me know she is in the hospitol.

This

> > > most

> > > > > drastic reaction happens most when I don't give her the

> > > attention

> > > > she

> > > > > wants when she wants it. So I end up having to put my

life

> on

> > > > hold

> > > > > and deal with hers. On the other hand, if I call her back

> and

> > > say

> > > > I'm

> > > > > sorry or it's ok, she calms down---I basically have to

> justify

> > > her

> > > > > behaviour and everything is ok.

> > > > >

> > > > > If I didn't value her I wouldn't put up with this

behaviour,

> I

> > > > would

> > > > > just cut her off. Her behaviour is irrational and unfair

to

> > > me.

> > > > I go

> > > > > out of my way on far too many occasions to listen to her

> talk

> > > > about

> > > > > her self, often for hours on the phone. Sometimes she

calls

> > > just

> > > > > to 'talk' but what she is really doing is looking for

> constant

> > > > > reassurance from me. I will listen for hours about every

> > single

> > > > > detail of her day--she leaves no stone unturned--while I

> might

> > > get

> > > > a

> > > > > few sentences in. Most of the conversation is me

going " uh-

> > > > oh " " oh, i

> > > > > see " etc... And to think she loves to accuse me of not

> > > listening

> > > > to

> > > > > her!

> > > > >

> > > > > She is extremelly self-centered, but she feels she is the

> > > > opposite.

> > > > > She feels she is a 'good person' and cares so much for

> > others.

> > > > This

> > > > > is not entirely untrue, but she is only wonderful to

others

> > when

> > > > she

> > > > > isn't feeling threatened, then she is a scary beast. She

> has

> > a

> > > > very

> > > > > distorted view of others--either describing friends and

> family

> > > as

> > > > > saints or villains, depending on her mood. She also has a

> > very

> > > > poor

> > > > > memory of past events, especially the ones in which she

said

> > the

> > > > most

> > > > > hateful things.

> > > > >

> > > > > She has lost two of her best friends this year, and now

she

> is

> > > > pushing

> > > > > me away. The incident that triggered her pulling away from

> me

> > > > involved

> > > > > a friend of ours(who has now cut my mom off). The three

of

> us

> > > > were

> > > > > having lunch and I started talking about a stressful

> occurance

> > > at

> > > > > work. My mom kept trying to interrupt me, and the friend

> kept

> > > > telling

> > > > > her to wait until I was done talking (like five times).

My

> > mom

> > > > gets

> > > > > really angry when she is not the center of attention, when

> she

> > > > feels

> > > > > she should be. The friend finally said " shut up! I am

> trying

> > to

> > > > > listen to your daughter! " Then the two of them got into a

> > fight

> > > > and

> > > > > my mom started making her usual statements like " No one

ever

> > > wants

> > > > to

> > > > > listen to me! " Poor me syndrome. She talks more than the

> > other

> > > > two

> > > > > of us put together. Anyway, I had a talk with this friend

> of

> > > ours

> > > > > later after she had talked with my mom, and found out she

> has

> > > had

> > > > the

> > > > > same problems with my mom that I have for years. I know

it

> is

> > > my

> > > > mom

> > > > > and I love her, but I really saw this woman's point of

> view.

> > My

> > > > mom

> > > > > says the most ungodly things to her friends when she feels

> she

> > > is

> > > > > being rejected. She is incapable of hearing criticism

> > > rationally,

> > > > her

> > > > > responses are purely emotional.

> > > > >

> > > > > So after this exhausting incident, my mom drove home

alone,

> > > > because I

> > > > > didn't want to be in the car under the influence of her

> > unstable

> > > > > mood. I was scared. My mom and her friend had another

> fight

> > > the

> > > > next

> > > > > day, when the friend came by to pick up her salon supplies

> (she

> > > > does my

> > > > > moms hair)and the friend ended up leaving--all the while

my

> > mom

> > > > > yelling " Don't Leave me too! " My friend had to tear

herself

> > out

> > > of

> > > > my

> > > > > mom's embrace to leave.

> > > > >

> > > > > So yesterday I got a call from my mom to tell me she was

at

> > the

> > > > > emergency room. And my first emotion was anger. I

decided

> > this

> > > > time

> > > > > I would not drop everything and come running, but let her

> deal

> > > > with it

> > > > > on her own. She called back later to tell me how she was--

> she

> > > was

> > > > > fine--but I still think it was a ploy to get me to pay

> > immediate

> > > > > attention to her. We had a talk and I finally confronted

> her

> > > and

> > > > told

> > > > > her that I think she can be manipulative sometimes. I

> offered

> > > for

> > > > us

> > > > > to go to a counselour together to talk about this because

I

> no

> > > > longer

> > > > > have any interest in her emotional blackmail filled

> > > discussions.

> > > > I

> > > > > think with a third person present she may be forced to

> > confront

> > > > that

> > > > > she may have a problem.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>