Re: Question??

[Guest guest]

I've never done a chat line before so don't know what the procedures are. I

just feel rather alone in my suffering since my daughter moved away - my

husband and son are still here but are not supportive. My mom who is the one

with

the problem lives with us - an attached apartment on our house. She is

demanding and wants me all to herself. I think, in a way, she is glad my

daughter

is gone because we were very close and did a lot together. I have a sister who

I suspect is also BPD. I've talked with her about mom and how she treats me

but she says she doesn't see that kind of behavior when she has her over to

her house which isn't very often. So mom isn't showing this side of her

personality to her proving that she can control it. She's never been physically

abusive with me - just verbal. She will scream and yell and throw things.

Everything is either a disaster or wonderful. She also has what I call a " black

list " - people she doesn't like and it grows all the time. These people don't

know that she doesn't like them because she will put on an act while around them

but will store up offenses to tell me about. I am just weary of it all. I'm

almost 54 and I feel like I haven't ever been able to grow up and be on my

own. I've always been under her thumb and under her control. I know that no

one can control you unless you let them but I'm not up for the fight if I stood

up to her. So many people have told me to just put her in her place and

eventually she will back down but they don't understand how she works. If I

talked

back to her or " put her in her place " I would hear about it for months -

years. She would never let me forget it. She dredges up things from years ago

-

even into her childhood where someone has wronged her.

She and my dad had a great relationship. He was extreamly easy going - a

great guy and there was no one who had a bad word to say about him. Mom was

always a little more high strung and controlling but he tempered her....he was

her

rock. When he died at 62 (massive stroke - high blood pressure - you figure

it out) she went over the edge. She turned the dependancy she had on him to

me and I've never been a good receipient of it. I had my own life - I was

married and expecting my first child when he died and from that moment on she

was

in my life and grieving his death. She didn't start to live again for 7 long

years. I blamed her behavior back then on his death and her not being able to

cope with it. That was back in 1977. For 5 years we lived with her and

finally moved out but we're now back in that same situation. How stupid was I?

I

thought it could work. I look at my only freedom as when she " crosses

Jordan " and I hate to feel that way. I really want for her to be happy but her

happiness hinges on me. and I can't make her happy. She is a miserable,

miserable woman and she's making everyone else miserable. We walk on eggshells

around

her. My husband thinks it's so funny that I'm reading the " Walking on

Eggshells " and I'm hiding it so she won't see it..... " walkin' on eggshells with

that

book again I see " he'll say to me.

Mom and I are heading out to the mall for another day of " joy " together.

Later:

L

[Guest guest]

Exactly. I don't believe they can't help doing what they do, and I

also don't believe that they are unaware of what they do. I think they

behave according to their own internal thoughts and emotions, which is

far different from what we would consider " normal " or

even " functional " . So what they do makes sense to their way of

thinking.

My nada does the same thing as yours - she's this wonderful person to

everyone outside of the family, and horribly abusive to just the

select lucky few of us who are actually related to her. I believe she

does this because she wants different things from outsiders vs.

family. From the outside world, she wants to be adored and admired,

and so she behaves in ways that gets her what she needs. From her

family (where it's much harder to maintain a flawless facade and get

that kind of adoration), she needs a place to dump all the rage and

hate that she can't show to anyone else. Also I think there's more of

a need to control family members - since we won't adore her like the

outside world, she finds other ways to try to force a kind of

submission, so at least the outside world gets the impression that

she's a " perfect " mother. Appearance is very important to her.

If you think about how a nada's behaviors come straight from her

thoughts and emotions, then it's not random behaviors at all - it's

disordered thinking and feeling that leads to what she does.

It still doesn't excuse what she does, but I find it helps me when I

can at least understand where it comes from.

>

> If a BPD is driven by irrational behaviors-So called they can't

> control.

> I wonder then why is it in public the can behave? Be like camillions?

> If they really had NOOOOO control over all they claim they don't

than

> why can they pick and choose when to behave and when not to. The

BPD's

> in my family had pretty good control of themselves to the outside

> world, but were horrible around their family and close friends.

> Please explain this to me.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi and all, I think that nadas and fadas can control themselves

when they REALLY want to for SHORT PERIODS of time. Actually, I had a

student last year who probably had BPD and that's what the

administrator helping me with him said--and I observed this. If the

consequences are high enough, and the will is great enough, they can

keep the bad behavior under wraps for a while--but it's exhausting

because it's still there, it's just under wraps.

I think this is why short trips to nada work out better than long

ones! It is also why it is so important to set up boundaries that

have clear consequences and stick to them. My strategy is to motivate

nada to " behave " and then not stick around until she can't contain

herself anymore.

Trish

>

> If a BPD is driven by irrational behaviors-So called they can't

> control.

> I wonder then why is it in public the can behave? Be like camillions?

> If they really had NOOOOO control over all they claim they don't than

> why can they pick and choose when to behave and when not to. The BPD's

> in my family had pretty good control of themselves to the outside

> world, but were horrible around their family and close friends.

> Please explain this to me.

>

[Guest guest]

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for your response.

My nada has past away and I'm NC with 2 sister with BPD. I have 1

nice sister that we are there for each other and I'm lucky for that.

I have been reading all kinds of stuff about BPD and I have been

reading about what is like to have this disorder. I read articles

and letters for BPD'S themselves. It is scary! I will not excuse any

bpd's in my life for their actions, but I am baffled by how twisted

their inter core really is. I read one line that stuck with me from

a letter a BPD wrote. They consider themselves " HUMAN ENOUGH " to

interact with the human race. Does this not freak you out a bit?

I can't feel sorry for them because I was on the recieving end of

their crap, but I feel sad that anyone has to exist that way.

My theropist tells me their emotional level is between 2-6 years old.

Like a small child that can't deal or throws a fit to get there own

way, or can't handle something. A child will learn as they grow,

BPD's do not. She also tells me they are not capable of love. I do

believe that. I reasd in letters from BPD's they feel bead about

hurting the ones they love. Do not buy it. I personally don't think

they are capable of loving someone. Don't think they love themselves

either. My theropist say BPD is a combination of temperment

(personality) and enviroment. I think you're born that way and how

bad you get depends on your enviroment. I read the some of the

research and they think not only is the emotional response in the

brain wired wrong but the ability to weed out the negativity of it.

Hope I explained that right. I think BPD's can with the right kind

of help be better then they are but never fixed. Science just can't

fix the brain yet.

> >

> > If a BPD is driven by irrational behaviors-So called they can't

> > control.

> > I wonder then why is it in public the can behave? Be like

camillions?

> > If they really had NOOOOO control over all they claim they don't

> than

> > why can they pick and choose when to behave and when not to. The

> BPD's

> > in my family had pretty good control of themselves to the

outside

> > world, but were horrible around their family and close friends.

> > Please explain this to me.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>I look at my only freedom as when she " crosses

>Jordan " and I hate to feel that way. I really want for her to be

happy >but her

>happiness hinges on me. and I can't make her happy. She is a

>miserable,

>miserable woman and she's making everyone else miserable. We walk on

>eggshells

>around

>her.

***********nn, I completely understand what you say here about

getting freedom when she 'crosses Jordan'. My mother is 96 and is

also a miserable, meserable woman who wants to take us all down with

her. Well, actually, I don't think she realizes that on a conscious

level. But she has worn me and my two sisters out completely.

The rest of your statement which says her happiness hinges on you, is

just what she has conditioned you to believe. The fact is that no one

can ever make another person happy. Happiness comes from within.

These poor people with BPD don't have the ability to think a happy

thought, let alone sustain any measure of peace or joy. When I first

learned about BPD about 2 years ago, I felt responsible for my

mother's happiness too. We were very enmeshed. I had become the

responsible daughter. My sisters were happy to let me handle all the

stuff I was taking care of. As I studied (not just read) Walking on

Eggshells, and How to Hug a Porcupine ( a book about how to handle

people with toxic personalities who are hard to love), I came to

understand and truly believe that I had a right to my own happiness.

Also that I would never be enough or do enough for my mother, no

matter how hard I tried. I came to understand the anger and

resentment I felt because of all the lost energy and time in my life

while I worried about her. It took months for that to sink in. At

first it was just a logical thought, but I still reacted on a gut

level with anxiety, fear and guilt where my mother was concerned. But

as I read and reread the books, gradually, I came to really know the

truth and to see that I was not emotionally healthy enough and that I

was making myself a victim. I was following her example of being the

victim. Sounds like your mom is a big-time victim herself. What I

couldn't see before was my own part in letting her ruin my peace.

I am here to tell you that after 2 years I am much healthier. Yes, it

is still not pleasant to deal with her and I become frustrated from

time to time, but that awful pressure and anxiety about her and our

relationship has gone. I no longer feel guilty all the time. I no

longer do everything she asks of me. I do what I believe a good

daughter should and no more.

In the porcupine book he explains that trying to please or fill the

needs of a toxic person is like standing at the rim of the Grand

Canyon trying to fill it up with a squirt gun. Only the Grand Canyon

has a bottom. The toxic person doesn't!!!!!!! That visualization

has helped me many times.

What gives me peace is knowing that even if I did all she wanted me

to, she would still be miserable. But it is not my fault. She is who

she is. I didn't Cause her problem, I can't Cure it and I can't

Change her. ( Those are the three C's from the Eggshells book.

You deserve to be happy and free from the responsibility you feel

toward your mother. But it will take work on your part because to

change is a frightening and difficult thing. But you are the only

person you can change. I wish you the best in this endeavor. And we

all here know what you are talking about. You are not alone. Dee