Re: DHEA, testosterone men (13c?)

[Guest guest]

I've been after my husband to get his testosterone tested for years,

and the saliva test was the easiest for me to get him to submit to! I

have also been urging him to use testosterone, but he didn't think

his level was low enough on the saliva test to take it even though it

was somewhat below normal. I think men just do not like to admit to a

doctor that their testosterone is declining. That's why there is so

much Viagra being sold without a prescription on the internet!

I've been taking the 13C. What does it do to your thyroid? ----Rosette

>

> Rosette,

>

> Has you husband ever thought about taking testosterone replacement

> rather than DHEA? My husband is on testosterone and HCG and feels

so

> much better. He said that he did not know how bad he was feeling

> until he felt good again. Fat in men makes estrogen just like it

does

> in women. My husband's doctor has him take extra zinc (50 mg) and

> Indole 3 Carbonal (400 mg/day) to help control estrogen. He is not

on

> any anti-estrogen meds (yet). I just read recently that Indole 3

> carbonal is not great for your thyroid though. His blood work is

due

> next month. He has not been able to loose any weight on

testosterone

> though; I was hoping it would help with the weight thing. Have you

> considered having your husband do blood testing instead of saliva?

I

> have read that saliva testing is not reliable for hormones only

cortisol.

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I've been after my husband to get his testosterone tested for years,

> and the saliva test was the easiest for me to get him to submit to! I

> have also been urging him to use testosterone, but he didn't think

> his level was low enough on the saliva test to take it even though it

> was somewhat below normal. I think men just do not like to admit to a

> doctor that their testosterone is declining. That's why there is so

> much Viagra being sold without a prescription on the internet!

>

> I've been taking the 13C. What does it do to your thyroid? ----Rosette

Hi Rosette,

I got my husband to do a saliva test first as well. I bought the test

from my compounding pharmacy and spoke to the male pharmacist after

his test results were back. The pharmacist gave my husband a referral

to our hormone doctor (his first, now mine also). The pharmacist said

that my husband would feel much better if he got treated. My husband

did not even think that he was having a problem (except for

overweight/big gut). Somehow I got him convinced to go see the doctor

and I was happy that he agreed to the treatment. At first he took HCG

injections. Those raised his testosterone level but he did not feel

better. He switched to Testosterone Cypionate 100mg IM injections

once a week and HCG sub Q twice a week. He does the HCG shots because

they are easy (like an insulin shot) and I do the IM shots for him.

He feels good, stronger, not wiped out after exercise, better mood...

I was hoping that it would help his weight but so far that is not

happening. I am concerned that he may have some insulin resistance.

I wanted him to talk to the doctor about possible insulin

resistance/diet at the last visit but they did not. I was also

concerned because his TSH was 2+ with his last test. The doctor

thought that the TSH was OK because his T3 and T4 were OK. He was

eating a lot of raw cabbage back then (I am not sure if he was on I3C

then or not) and I am concerned that the cabbage may have suppressed

his thyroid. Our doctor does not even know about the connection

between thyroid and raw cruciferous veggies like cabbage—so he is no

help. I also started having him take 4 drops of Lugol's solution to

possible help his thyroid function.

His doctor has him take 400 mg of Indole-3-Carbonal/day and 50mg of

zinc/day to help decrease/control estrogen. I joined Dr. Gillespie's

private list a couple of weeks ago and I was going through the posts

and I noticed a post that said not to take Indoles/DIMMs because they

can suppress your thyroid just like raw cruciferous veggies/soy…can.

I never thought about it before but I3C is made from cruciferous

vegetables. I do not know the exact process but it makes sense that

if raw cabbage can suppress your thyroid, I3C may be able to as well.

Beyond A Century says this regarding their DIM/I3C " Diindole Methane,

from cruciferous vegetables, is a tasteless, stable form of indole

3-carbinol (I3C). A pound and one half of broccoli = 300mg I3C =

30-40mg DIM! " I have been looking through studies and have not found

anything yet to convince me that I3C will cause thyroid suppression

but I am still looking. At this point I think it is just something to

watch and be aware of the possibility.

I checked on the Men's Health Forum at

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/ to see if any of the

men there have had a problem with thyroid and I3C or DIM but I did not

find anything yet. I need to spend some more time searching the

posts. I probably should just post the question but I feel

uncomfortable because the forum is a men's forum.

If you find anything will you post it?

As far as the testosterone therapy for your husband… He does not have

to do shots, he can use testosterone gel instead. However, the men on

the men's health forum above seem to think that taking a couple of HCG

injections/week helps them feel better. Also, HCG injections help

prevent the testes from shrinking from testosterone therapy. My

husband's doctor says that he has found that more men feel better on

testosterone shots than gel though. My husband's doctor thinks the

HCG shots are an unnecessary " extra expense " but he writes the RX

anyway. Another thing for your husband would be to find a doctor who

specializes in testosterone therapy for men like we did. I think most

doctors are clueless about how to treat men who have a low

testosterone level because the lab normals are very wide. Doctors

will say that the 300 testosterone result is " fine " when it really

needs to be at least twice that amount to feel good.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Gee, and I thought broccoli and cabbage were good for you! My husband

is back on DHEA. He said his joints are sore again, and they don't

hurt on the DHEA. He just feels better on the DHEA and thinks maybe

the test was wrong about him having an excess of it. I don't know if

it is psychological or not, but whatever...I will keep after him to

get a testosterone prescription. I wish it wasn't a controlled

substance.----Rosette

> >

> > I've been after my husband to get his testosterone tested for

years,

> > and the saliva test was the easiest for me to get him to submit

to! I

> > have also been urging him to use testosterone, but he didn't

think

> > his level was low enough on the saliva test to take it even

though it

> > was somewhat below normal. I think men just do not like to admit

to a

> > doctor that their testosterone is declining. That's why there is

so

> > much Viagra being sold without a prescription on the internet!

> >

> > I've been taking the 13C. What does it do to your thyroid? ----

Rosette

>

> Hi Rosette,

>

> I got my husband to do a saliva test first as well. I bought the

test

> from my compounding pharmacy and spoke to the male pharmacist after

> his test results were back. The pharmacist gave my husband a

referral

> to our hormone doctor (his first, now mine also). The pharmacist

said

> that my husband would feel much better if he got treated. My

husband

> did not even think that he was having a problem (except for

> overweight/big gut). Somehow I got him convinced to go see the

doctor

> and I was happy that he agreed to the treatment. At first he took

HCG

> injections. Those raised his testosterone level but he did not feel

> better. He switched to Testosterone Cypionate 100mg IM injections

> once a week and HCG sub Q twice a week. He does the HCG shots

because

> they are easy (like an insulin shot) and I do the IM shots for him.

> He feels good, stronger, not wiped out after exercise, better

mood...

> I was hoping that it would help his weight but so far that is not

> happening. I am concerned that he may have some insulin

resistance.

> I wanted him to talk to the doctor about possible insulin

> resistance/diet at the last visit but they did not. I was also

> concerned because his TSH was 2+ with his last test. The doctor

> thought that the TSH was OK because his T3 and T4 were OK. He was

> eating a lot of raw cabbage back then (I am not sure if he was on

I3C

> then or not) and I am concerned that the cabbage may have suppressed

> his thyroid. Our doctor does not even know about the connection

> between thyroid and raw cruciferous veggies like cabbage—so he is no

> help. I also started having him take 4 drops of Lugol's solution to

> possible help his thyroid function.

>

> His doctor has him take 400 mg of Indole-3-Carbonal/day and 50mg of

> zinc/day to help decrease/control estrogen. I joined Dr.

Gillespie's

> private list a couple of weeks ago and I was going through the posts

> and I noticed a post that said not to take Indoles/DIMMs because

they

> can suppress your thyroid just like raw cruciferous veggies/soy…

can.

> I never thought about it before but I3C is made from cruciferous

> vegetables. I do not know the exact process but it makes sense that

> if raw cabbage can suppress your thyroid, I3C may be able to as

well.

> Beyond A Century says this regarding their DIM/I3C " Diindole

Methane,

> from cruciferous vegetables, is a tasteless, stable form of indole

> 3-carbinol (I3C). A pound and one half of broccoli = 300mg I3C =

> 30-40mg DIM! " I have been looking through studies and have not

found

> anything yet to convince me that I3C will cause thyroid suppression

> but I am still looking. At this point I think it is just something

to

> watch and be aware of the possibility.

>

> I checked on the Men's Health Forum at

> http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/ to see if any of

the

> men there have had a problem with thyroid and I3C or DIM but I did

not

> find anything yet. I need to spend some more time searching the

> posts. I probably should just post the question but I feel

> uncomfortable because the forum is a men's forum.

>

> If you find anything will you post it?

>

> As far as the testosterone therapy for your husband… He does not

have

> to do shots, he can use testosterone gel instead. However, the men

on

> the men's health forum above seem to think that taking a couple of

HCG

> injections/week helps them feel better. Also, HCG injections help

> prevent the testes from shrinking from testosterone therapy. My

> husband's doctor says that he has found that more men feel better on

> testosterone shots than gel though. My husband's doctor thinks the

> HCG shots are an unnecessary " extra expense " but he writes the RX

> anyway. Another thing for your husband would be to find a doctor

who

> specializes in testosterone therapy for men like we did. I think

most

> doctors are clueless about how to treat men who have a low

> testosterone level because the lab normals are very wide. Doctors

> will say that the 300 testosterone result is " fine " when it really

> needs to be at least twice that amount to feel good.

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Gee, and I thought broccoli and cabbage were good for you! My husband

> is back on DHEA. He said his joints are sore again, and they don't

> hurt on the DHEA. He just feels better on the DHEA and thinks maybe

> the test was wrong about him having an excess of it. I don't know if

> it is psychological or not, but whatever...I will keep after him to

> get a testosterone prescription. I wish it wasn't a controlled

> substance.----Rosette

Rosette,

I think broccoli and cabbage are good as long as we cook it before we

eat it.

Have you ever noticed that IHP sells generic androgel for men? The

site does not say anything about not being able to ship to the US. I

have been tempted to order some for a back up but I was worried that

if customs opened the package I would have trouble. I am waiting

right now for an order from Masters Marketing for estrogen and

progesterone and I will be worried until it shows up. I do not know

the laws though, I wish I did. Each pouch of generic androgel has

50mg/5 grams or 10 mg/gram of testosterone. My T. RX is 8mg/ml and I

dilute it to save money. Diluting 10mg/gram seems just as easy.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Importing prescription drugs from other countries is illegal, but it

is not being enforced much. If something is seized by Customs, it is

kept and you are usually out your money, depending on the pharmacy,

but they won't come arrest you. In the case of a controlled substance

like testosterone, though, they might. The FDA made that law about it

being OK to import 3 months worth of drugs for personal use back when

the AIDS people were protesting, but they don't like it that other

people have used it for their advantage. They leave the laws and

regulations kind of vague so that they can start seizing drugs

anytime they feel like it . With the senators in the pocket of Wyeth

and talking about how BHRT is quackery, they may start selectively

seizing hormone products in the near future. -----Rosette

> >

> > Gee, and I thought broccoli and cabbage were good for you! My

husband

> > is back on DHEA. He said his joints are sore again, and they

don't

> > hurt on the DHEA. He just feels better on the DHEA and thinks

maybe

> > the test was wrong about him having an excess of it. I don't know

if

> > it is psychological or not, but whatever...I will keep after him

to

> > get a testosterone prescription. I wish it wasn't a controlled

> > substance.----Rosette

>

> Rosette,

>

> I think broccoli and cabbage are good as long as we cook it before

we

> eat it.

>

> Have you ever noticed that IHP sells generic androgel for men? The

> site does not say anything about not being able to ship to the US.

I

> have been tempted to order some for a back up but I was worried that

> if customs opened the package I would have trouble. I am waiting

> right now for an order from Masters Marketing for estrogen and

> progesterone and I will be worried until it shows up. I do not know

> the laws though, I wish I did. Each pouch of generic androgel has

> 50mg/5 grams or 10 mg/gram of testosterone. My T. RX is 8mg/ml and

I

> dilute it to save money. Diluting 10mg/gram seems just as easy.

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

I would like to try to get that generic androgel. I am not familuar

with IHP. Would you mind sending a link to me?

Gale

> >

> > Gee, and I thought broccoli and cabbage were good for you! My husband

> > is back on DHEA. He said his joints are sore again, and they don't

> > hurt on the DHEA. He just feels better on the DHEA and thinks maybe

> > the test was wrong about him having an excess of it. I don't know if

> > it is psychological or not, but whatever...I will keep after him to

> > get a testosterone prescription. I wish it wasn't a controlled

> > substance.----Rosette

>

> Rosette,

>

> I think broccoli and cabbage are good as long as we cook it before we

> eat it.

>

> Have you ever noticed that IHP sells generic androgel for men? The

> site does not say anything about not being able to ship to the US. I

> have been tempted to order some for a back up but I was worried that

> if customs opened the package I would have trouble. I am waiting

> right now for an order from Masters Marketing for estrogen and

> progesterone and I will be worried until it shows up. I do not know

> the laws though, I wish I did. Each pouch of generic androgel has

> 50mg/5 grams or 10 mg/gram of testosterone. My T. RX is 8mg/ml and I

> dilute it to save money. Diluting 10mg/gram seems just as easy.

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I would like to try to get that generic androgel. I am not familuar

> with IHP. Would you mind sending a link to me?

>

> Gale

>

In House Pharmacy, under men's health, other medications

http://www.inhousepharmacy.com/mens-health/androgel.html

I think Vliet says that women should never use men's androgel. She

wants your dose to be in one gram of the product.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Thanks Kathy. It looks like they are out of stock now.

Gale

> >

> > I would like to try to get that generic androgel. I am not familuar

> > with IHP. Would you mind sending a link to me?

> >

> > Gale

> >

> In House Pharmacy, under men's health, other medications

> http://www.inhousepharmacy.com/mens-health/androgel.html

>

> I think Vliet says that women should never use men's androgel. She

> wants your dose to be in one gram of the product.

>

> Kathy

>