Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

[Guest guest]

i like this.

i learned the hard way...i often have to go first when i want something. but, it's much better than sitting around waiting for some result.

after all, it's your life!

jason

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 8:19:52 AMSubject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Yes, Simone, I have hugged someone while still feeling angry. My ex and I made a rule when we got married that we would hug each other before leaving for work in the morning, and before going to bed at night -- no matter what. Sometimes it was difficult to interrupt an argument to get the hug in. But more often than not, the hug just dissolved or, at least, lessened the anger. It was a good rule; however, our marriage broke up for other reasons.

I have a suggestion: Could you get your husband to agree to a "date" every now and then? Time for just the two of you? It could be once a week, once a month -- whatever works. And you could take turns planning the date. You could make sure to hold hands and hug, just as you did when you were actually dating. What do you think? Maybe he would see that there is more to life than just working. I was married to a workaholic, and this tactic worked for me. It was up to me to keep it going, however!

Maybe you are already doing these things ... but thought I would mention them anyway just in case.

Best,

Helena

Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Here is a little snippet from a book I am working on (tentatively entitled - the Wisdom to Know the Difference). Lots in there in on anger and resentment. For now, it is also posted in my facebook notes.

http://www.facebook .com/note. php?created & & suggest & note_id=10150195876 400790

Letting go of anger can be approached as a practice. Think of it this way....thoughts and feelings come along. I don't know any way to stop them over the long haul. Like the birds that fly over the place I live. The question is: do I want to put up nesting boxes, feeders, suet blocks, etc? Well, for birds, sure. I like birds and I am an avid backyard bird watcher. It makes sense to invest some time and energy in that. But feelings of anger, jealously, self contempt? I am not going to invest a lot in making them a place to live and feeding them. So the question I have for myself is--how much am I investing in these thoughts and feelings, and, is that what I want to do with my time? If the answer is "too much time" and "no I have other things I

want to use my time and energy on" then I can make a gentle turn back towards what I value. This is not avoidance of anger. It is simply setting it aside in the service of what I value. Think of it like a meditation. As I sit and notice my breath, I may find myself thinking about the tasks of the day. Are the tasks real? Sure. Am I justified in thinking about them? Sure. Is that what I am doing right now? No. I am meditating. Thanks mind, but I am going to visit my breath now I have carved out a little time for breath and I to sit together. You can come along if you like, but that is where I am going.Except in the anger example, I return not to my breath, but instead to my value. My life becomes a meditation. Returning again and again to that which I value. Letting go again and again of that which grabs my attention but is not what I want to invest in this particular day.Will the thoughts and feelings fly over

again (and again, and again, and again, etc)? Sure. And I know that trying to prevent them from flying over just doesn't work. So, I return to what I wish to invest myself in. My value.Now, you might value being right about how wrong someone is. OK. I believe you. Now what?The issue as I am casting it here is less about whether the feeling is good, bad, justified, unjustified, true, not true, etc. Those conversations never get me far and I don't invest much in them. The question is where will I invest myself? What do I want on my tombstone?He justified his anger?He was right about how wrong they were?These things may well be true, but there are other things that I would prefer to be remembered for, other places I want to invest my time. Life is short and precious. Today's chance to do the next right thing may be my last. How will I spend it in this very moment? And, this moment? And, this

moment?

with my warm regards, from the road,

G. 205 Peabody BuildingPsychology DepartmentUniversity of MississippiOxford, MS 38677ph: fax:

academic homepage:www.olemiss. edu/working/ kwilson/kwilson. htm

also check outwww.onelifellc. comwww.mindfulnessfort wo.comwww.facebook. com/kellygwilsonwww.tastybehavioris m.comwww.abnormalwootwoo t.com

Oooooh! I LOVE it! I WANT it! My soul is scorched!Now I just have to figure out how to release the anger and not get burned.Barbara--- In ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com, "vcferrara" <> "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned"> > Best,> VC>

[Guest guest]

uh oh...what's the man thing?

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 10:48:11 AMSubject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Hi Helena,

Thats a great rule. I'll give it a go. Though there is a part of me that still says 'why is it me making all the effort?' Maybe its just a man thing ( sorry guys.) Yes, I have come up with the suggestion of 'dating'. And when I manage to drop my resentment we can and do have a pleasant evening. Then we drift back to our old ways of him working late - me disappearing to meditate and basically having very little connection, in between long working hours and three children.I was thinking about what said about 'investing', as i was walking the dog just now. An image came to mind that helped me. Piggy banks named with what you value on the outside and then droppping the 'coin' of your actions into that piggy bank. I have been dropping loads of coins in the piggy bank of 'Resentment & You must behave the way I want'. I'm going to try and turn away from that and drop some coins into the ' Compassion & Acceptance for all' piggy

bank. Picturing it this way helps.

Thanks Helena.

Simone

From: Helena <hbbrcomcast (DOT) net>To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com>Sent: Fri, 18 June, 2010 14:19:52Subject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Yes, Simone, I have hugged someone while still feeling angry. My ex and I made a rule when we got married that we would hug each other before leaving for work in the morning, and before going to bed at night -- no matter what. Sometimes it was difficult to interrupt an argument to get the hug in. But more often than not, the hug just dissolved or, at least, lessened the anger. It was a good rule; however, our marriage broke up for other reasons.

I have a suggestion: Could you get your husband to agree to a "date" every now and then? Time for just the two of you? It could be once a week, once a month -- whatever works. And you could take turns planning the date. You could make sure to hold hands and hug, just as you did when you were actually dating. What do you think? Maybe he would see that there is more to life than just working. I was married to a workaholic, and this tactic worked for me. It was up to me to keep it going, however!

Maybe you are already doing these things ... but thought I would mention them anyway just in case.

Best,

Helena

Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Here is a little snippet from a book I am working on (tentatively entitled - the Wisdom to Know the Difference). Lots in there in on anger and resentment. For now, it is also posted in my facebook notes.

http://www.facebook .com/note. php?created & & suggest & note_id=10150195876 400790

Letting go of anger can be approached as a practice. Think of it this way....thoughts and feelings come along. I don't know any way to stop them over the long haul. Like the birds that fly over the place I live. The question is: do I want to put up nesting boxes, feeders, suet blocks, etc? Well, for birds, sure. I like birds and I am an avid backyard bird watcher. It makes sense to invest some time and energy in that. But feelings of anger, jealously, self contempt? I am not going to invest a lot in making them a place to live and feeding them. So the question I have for myself is--how much am I investing in these thoughts and feelings, and, is that what I want to do with my time? If the answer is "too much time" and "no I have other things I

want to use my time and energy on" then I can make a gentle turn back towards what I value. This is not avoidance of anger. It is simply setting it aside in the service of what I value. Think of it like a meditation. As I sit and notice my breath, I may find myself thinking about the tasks of the day. Are the tasks real? Sure. Am I justified in thinking about them? Sure. Is that what I am doing right now? No. I am meditating. Thanks mind, but I am going to visit my breath now I have carved out a little time for breath and I to sit together. You can come along if you like, but that is where I am going.Except in the anger example, I return not to my breath, but instead to my value. My life becomes a meditation. Returning again and again to that which I value. Letting go again and again of that which grabs my attention but is not what I want to invest in this particular day.Will the thoughts and feelings fly over

again (and again, and again, and again, etc)? Sure. And I know that trying to prevent them from flying over just doesn't work. So, I return to what I wish to invest myself in. My value.Now, you might value being right about how wrong someone is. OK. I believe you. Now what?The issue as I am casting it here is less about whether the feeling is good, bad, justified, unjustified, true, not true, etc. Those conversations never get me far and I don't invest much in them. The question is where will I invest myself? What do I want on my tombstone?He justified his anger?He was right about how wrong they were?These things may well be true, but there are other things that I would prefer to be remembered for, other places I want to invest my time. Life is short and precious. Today's chance to do the next right thing may be my last. How will I spend it in this very moment? And, this moment? And, this

moment?

with my warm regards, from the road,

G. 205 Peabody BuildingPsychology DepartmentUniversity of MississippiOxford, MS 38677ph: fax:

academic homepage:www.olemiss. edu/working/ kwilson/kwilson. htm

also check outwww.onelifellc. comwww.mindfulnessfort wo.comwww.facebook. com/kellygwilsonwww.tastybehavioris m.comwww.abnormalwootwoo t.com

Oooooh! I LOVE it! I WANT it! My soul is scorched!Now I just have to figure out how to release the anger and not get burned.Barbara--- In ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com, "vcferrara" <> "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned"> > Best,> VC>

[Guest guest]

I may have been one who said "just do it."If I decided to use ACT to forgive myself for being angry I think I would try the following:SELF AS CONTEXT or OBSERVANT SELF - as if I was the chess board I would notice my angry thoughts, deem them as not helpful and decide to use DEFUSION on those nasty thoughts: make up a silly song about my angry thoughts; poke a bit of fun at them; try to lighten up the details of the thoughts. For the emotions of anger I wouldACCEPT those emotions; take a careful but light look at them and resolve to have the emotions as they are without defense or struggle, in other words let go of them (a choice). At some point (hopefully sooner rather than later) I would decide that I had spent enough of my valuable time on these emotions and I would choose to get busy (COMMITTED ACTION) on something I VALUE.If I were really stuck in a funk I would use the five things technique () and notice and name five things I can see; then five things I can hear; and then five things I can feel with my body. If I was still in a funk I would name five more things until I found some wiggle room to get going. I think this is a technique of CONTACT WITH THE PRESENT MOMENT or CONNECTION.I do not just use ACT from time to time, just when a big funk appears. I try to use it all the time on the smaller things. I find there are "moments of truth" in the use of ACT. Given a specific situation, will I invoke ACT core principles or won't I? The more I practice and deliberately use ACT the easier it is to stay in the ACT mode. Every so often I will slip off the ACT wagon and, low and behold, up shows a blue funk. If I'm quick to recognize it it only lasts a little while. If not, you'll find me down a rabbit hole, sometimes for several hours. Sooner or later I will grab one of the ACT life rings and rescue myself. It's so much easier (and harder!) to practice ACT as part of my daily living. I'm way ahead of where I was a year ago and expect to be way ahead next year at this time. I do not expect to ever master ACT as my thinking self seems determined that I will not.As I reread this email before sending it, I can rip it apart from an ACT theory standpoint. I can visualize , Russ, and the other pros cringing at my words.I hope the group will see through the flaws and find the wisdom, what there is of it.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: hbbr@...Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 20:49:06 +0000Subject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

I don't recall anyone actually saying "you gotta just do it [forgiveness]", but that's my perspective.

Can anyone answer the question about how to actually DO forgiveness? I believe it was who said it can be both or either an act and a feeling; the act can occur even when the feeling isn't there. Others have said it is a choice. If it is a choice to forgive, how is that choice expressed or manifested? Is forgiveness simply the choice to be compassionate toward the person who has hurt you -- or is that different from forgiveness? I have heard yet others say that forgiveness is a process and you you don't have to have the feeling in your heart to start the process -- you just need to say internally "I forgive [the person]", even if you can't say it directly to the person, and the feeling of forgiveness will eventually follow the words.

My personal experience with forgiveness:

.... concerns my cruel foster father, whom I hated most of my life,even after he died. When I was in my 40's, I practiced some Buddhist exercises where, in my mind's eye, I drew him into a circle of compassion (I was in the circle, too), imagining him as an innocent child and reaching out my arms to him, and to myself as well. It took about a year before I noticed that my hatred had disappeared. First, I had to be willing to try to feel compassion for him. I couldn't, so I imagined it, then I kept up the exercises until feeling compassion somehow snuck in. Perhaps that's what is meant by forgiveness can be an "act" without being the feeling.

My sister who was in the same foster home is still stuck in the rut of hatred. She can't understand how I "got over it" nor can I explain it very well--especially since she is not really interested in hearing about it. She actually wants to stay stuck!

Helena

Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Hi all, on one hand, I know you are responding because you truly think it would help me. On the other hand, because its a big issue (well, kind of) for me, and I can't seem to "do" forgiveness at all no matter how, I get very exasperated when I hear so many people say "you gotta just do it, you gotta just do it." And I'm thinking "HOW??!!!" I just don't get it, for the life of me.Doing forgiveness, etc. is just words. But in practical terms, it really does not translate into something I know how to do! Like I said, in the past, if I forgave somebody, it always came about by its own and I only realise it when I think of that person one day and no longer feel hatred in my heart. So forgiveness for me, based on past experience, never came about after conscious efforts to do so.I think at the end of the day, this is just mine and my issue alone. And its me who has to find my way around this. Everything else seems peripheral.Thank you for all your replies anyway :)They say that every single moment of your life, whatever you say or think or do, changes you in some way. Every interaction with someone changes you in some way, even if it seems like a teeny tiny bit.Perhaps all these exchanges of information has changed me in a way, I don't know. > > Â > >Oooooh! I LOVE it! I WANT it! My soul is scorched!> >> >Now I just have to figure out how to release the anger and not get burned.> >> >Barbara> >> >--- In ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com, "vcferrara" <> > >> >"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned"> >> > >> Best,> >> VC> >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

it may have to cook up a little more for you to get at it. personally, i try not to grind away at this kind of thing anymore.

here's a little analysis if you want it

if you examine it belief-wise, non-forgiveness or resentment is...some event occurs, then

this should not have happened...(that's the first hook)

then,

if i hold you responsible for "this should not have happened" maybe you or the situation will change...(second hook)

then i can finally be happy or at peace (or move on)...(third hook)

but i cannot be at peace until you do something...change or apologize, etc. (fourth hook)

so, i am going to sit here and wait for the change and make myself and all others miserable until it happens...(fifth hook)

or even...maybe my misery, if you pick up on it, will finally make you change

you can intervene with mindfulness/intuition at any point here by seeing directly the total unworkability and suffering of it all. is there anything there that is really workable? it looks workable from our self-as-object tendency...call it ego or whatever. But, from the perspective of LIFE forward or vitality...it's nothing but stuckness.

it's not ACT, but on-line, THE WORK has a "judge your neighbor worksheet", looks silly, but can be very effective if you write it out and do it in a presence-based way. you can capture the cognitive elements if you want to try a go at that level.

i used it with ACT and still do.

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 3:49:06 PMSubject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

I don't recall anyone actually saying "you gotta just do it [forgiveness] ", but that's my perspective.

Can anyone answer the question about how to actually DO forgiveness? I believe it was who said it can be both or either an act and a feeling; the act can occur even when the feeling isn't there. Others have said it is a choice. If it is a choice to forgive, how is that choice expressed or manifested? Is forgiveness simply the choice to be compassionate toward the person who has hurt you -- or is that different from forgiveness? I have heard yet others say that forgiveness is a process and you you don't have to have the feeling in your heart to start the process -- you just need to say internally "I forgive [the person]", even if you can't say it directly to the person, and the feeling of forgiveness will eventually follow the words.

My personal experience with forgiveness:

.... concerns my cruel foster father, whom I hated most of my life,even after he died. When I was in my 40's, I practiced some Buddhist exercises where, in my mind's eye, I drew him into a circle of compassion (I was in the circle, too), imagining him as an innocent child and reaching out my arms to him, and to myself as well. It took about a year before I noticed that my hatred had disappeared. First, I had to be willing to try to feel compassion for him. I couldn't, so I imagined it, then I kept up the exercises until feeling compassion somehow snuck in. Perhaps that's what is meant by forgiveness can be an "act" without being the feeling.

My sister who was in the same foster home is still stuck in the rut of hatred. She can't understand how I "got over it" nor can I explain it very well--especially since she is not really interested in hearing about it. She actually wants to stay stuck!

Helena

[ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Hi all, on one hand, I know you are responding because you truly think it would help me. On the other hand, because its a big issue (well, kind of) for me, and I can't seem to "do" forgiveness at all no matter how, I get very exasperated when I hear so many people say "you gotta just do it, you gotta just do it." And I'm thinking "HOW??!!!" I just don't get it, for the life of me.Doing forgiveness, etc. is just words. But in practical terms, it really does not translate into something I know how to do! Like I said, in the past, if I forgave somebody, it always came about by its own and I only realise it when I think of that person one day and no longer feel hatred in my heart. So forgiveness for me, based on past experience, never came about after conscious efforts to do so.I think at the end of the day, this is just mine and my issue alone. And its me who has to find my way around this. Everything else seems peripheral.Thank

you for all your replies anyway :)They say that every single moment of your life, whatever you say or think or do, changes you in some way. Every interaction with someone changes you in some way, even if it seems like a teeny tiny bit.Perhaps all these exchanges of information has changed me in a way, I don't know. > > Â > >Oooooh! I LOVE it! I WANT it! My soul is scorched!> >> >Now I just have to figure out how to release the anger and not get burned.> >> >Barbara> >> >---

In ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com, "vcferrara" <> > >> >"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned"> >> > >> Best,> >> VC> >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I'll take a stab at that, from my point of view : )

I think the "man thing" is this: It seems that it is almost always the woman who wants a deeper emotional connection in the marriage than the man does (that is expressed and not just taken for granted) and, thus, she undertakes the responsibility to make that happen -- or nothing would happen.

True for every man and woman? Not at all. But it was true for me and my female friends in most of our male/female relationships.

Helena

Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Here is a little snippet from a book I am working on (tentatively entitled - the Wisdom to Know the Difference). Lots in there in on anger and resentment. For now, it is also posted in my facebook notes.

http://www.facebook .com/note. php?created & & suggest & note_id=10150195876 400790

Letting go of anger can be approached as a practice. Think of it this way....thoughts and feelings come along. I don't know any way to stop them over the long haul. Like the birds that fly over the place I live. The question is: do I want to put up nesting boxes, feeders, suet blocks, etc? Well, for birds, sure. I like birds and I am an avid backyard bird watcher. It makes sense to invest some time and energy in that. But feelings of anger, jealously, self contempt? I am not going to invest a lot in making them a place to live and feeding them. So the question I have for myself is--how much am I investing in these thoughts and feelings, and, is that what I want to do with my time? If the answer is "too much time" and "no I have other things I want to use my time and energy on" then I can make a gentle turn back towards what I value. This is not avoidance of anger. It is simply setting it aside in the service of what I value. Think of it like a meditation. As I sit and notice my breath, I may find myself thinking about the tasks of the day. Are the tasks real? Sure. Am I justified in thinking about them? Sure. Is that what I am doing right now? No. I am meditating. Thanks mind, but I am going to visit my breath now I have carved out a little time for breath and I to sit together. You can come along if you like, but that is where I am going.Except in the anger example, I return not to my breath, but instead to my value. My life becomes a meditation. Returning again and again to that which I value. Letting go again and again of that which grabs my attention but is not what I want to invest in this particular day.Will the thoughts and feelings fly over again (and again, and again, and again, etc)? Sure. And I know that trying to prevent them from flying over just doesn't work. So, I return to what I wish to invest myself in. My value.Now, you might value being right about how wrong someone is. OK. I believe you. Now what?The issue as I am casting it here is less about whether the feeling is good, bad, justified, unjustified, true, not true, etc. Those conversations never get me far and I don't invest much in them. The question is where will I invest myself? What do I want on my tombstone?He justified his anger?He was right about how wrong they were?These things may well be true, but there are other things that I would prefer to be remembered for, other places I want to invest my time. Life is short and precious. Today's chance to do the next right thing may be my last. How will I spend it in this very moment? And, this moment? And, this moment?

with my warm regards, from the road,

G. 205 Peabody BuildingPsychology DepartmentUniversity of MississippiOxford, MS 38677ph: fax:

academic homepage:www.olemiss. edu/working/ kwilson/kwilson. htm

also check outwww.onelifellc. comwww.mindfulnessfort wo.comwww.facebook. com/kellygwilsonwww.tastybehavioris m.comwww.abnormalwootwoo t.com

Oooooh! I LOVE it! I WANT it! My soul is scorched!Now I just have to figure out how to release the anger and not get burned.Barbara--- In ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com, "vcferrara" <> "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned"> > Best,> VC>

[Guest guest]

Hmmmmm

[Guest guest]

,

It sounds like you are very fused with your "stories", and I am not glossing over your experiences or your very real and understandable fears when I say that.

This is just my opinon, speaking from personal experince, having gone through similar childhood atrocities: I think talking to a capable therapist (preferably, an ACT therapist, or one who is familiar with and supportive of ACT concepts) could do wonders for you. Finding the right one is key and could take some effort, but you're worth it.

I was greatly helped by a number of therapists (one in particular) and a little medication (medication is VERY optional and not for everyone). You may have moved far away, physically, from your childhood home, but your childhood could not be closer to you as the horror stories run through your mind and continue to inflict pain in the present. There is a way to change that -- the stories won't change but you can defuse from them and kick their power over you to the curb. Please don't give up.

Helena

Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

I tried imagining my mother as a child before. It couldn't work because I think she is such a monster that I couldn't imagine any child's face as her... They are too angelic for that. Also I've never seen any real photos of her when she was a child. Also, I know this might sound freaky to some of you, but prior to severing ties with her, I used to have nightmares of her trying to kill me almost every time after she had contacted me by long-distance phonecall or email. Its just old memories though, but they feel so fresh and I still feel so scared of her when I think of it, I start trembling and feeling cold. I'd just remember one of those times when she chased me around the flat with a cleaver threatening to cut me up and kill me, or when she was trying to strangle me to death (well, on hindsight I guess she could have just killed me if she wanted but she didn't go through with it so perhaps she wasn't going to.) On a few occasions I went blue in the face before she gave up, once I nearly passed out. Other times she'd lock me up in the bedroom for so many hours, I wasn't sure how long though because my earliest memory of that was about 5 years old. Looking back, I *think* I might have been a depressed child, I don't know. Nobody ever asked about me or showed any concern in what I felt, and I never knew how to express those feelings or even aware of what they really were! I've never seen a psychologist or counsellor. I feel really uncomfortable expressing my thoughts feelings and my past to someone in person. I think they judge me, and I think they will never understand or comprehend me. When I was between the ages of 14 to 17 I went through a self-mutilation phase where I'd cut my arms with pen-knifes and things just for fun, and also if I felt really emotional because I've had a row with my parents, I'd do that because it takes the pain away a little. Then I stopped because my mum saw the scars one day and said I was nuts and threatened to put me into an asylum if I didn't stop this madness. I was afraid of course, because I've been to an old folks' home once as a teen to volunteer, and I saw how bad the conditions were and how little care the people received, and even though it was an old folks' home, there were young people there in their 20s and 30s who are just thrown in there because they were a bit retarded and their family didn't want to look after them anymore.I did not dare to think what the asylums would be like. It was like a national joke - the asylum. People often made fun of the asylum and it really wasn't seen as a place where people would go in, and really get treated and come out fine. It seemed like a place where people would go in and have little hope of ever rejoining society again.So I made a conscious effort to repress all my feelings of fear, anger, sadness, etc... for all these years. I moved out of my home, moved far away, set up a new home for myself, a new family, etc.I read Dorothy Rowe's description of asylums in England and it seems just as much as a place of hopelessness where people hardly ever emerge from it cured.There is no way I am going to go up to a doctor today and say "here's my problem. etc. etc." I don't want any psychiatric drugs, I am having none of it. The life I've built is too good for me to throw away (even if its not perfect).But revisiting the past with my mother is very, very hard and very very traumatic for me. You'd think that in this day, when she's grown old and frail and no longer a match for me in physical strength, that I should have nothing to be afraid of her. Indeed, when I see her in person, I am not afraid of her trying to kill me again. But her words cut into me like daggers and I don't know why I still feel so badly hurt by even just her words. When I try to do any sort of mental exercise to "accept" what she did to me, it just throws up a range of horrible reactions in me that I don't even know where it springs from - the tingling behind my neck, the trembling of my hands, the cold feelings... and the nightmares. Those are the worse. I wake up a wreck, tears in my eyes, heart racing in fear... I feel like I'm going through it all over again.I don't know how or if its ever possible to overcome it.Just typing it out now sends shivers down my spine and makes me well up... When I was in the shower just now, I tried what Helena suggested worked for her in producing forgiveness... but the moment I tried to picture my mum as a child and I went to hug her, I started experiencing panic-attack symptoms again... the trembling, the cold shivers, the heart racing... And then I just had to stop. I just had to. It was so strong. Then I felt like such a failure... and I cried.And now I'm starting to wonder if I'm depressed. Now.I shouldn't be. I was quite happy today all day, until then... (sigh)

[Guest guest]

Hmmmmm ... in response to what?

RE: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Hmmmmm

[Guest guest]

, my mom actually signed me into one of those asylums (state hospital) because I was pregnant when I was 19-20, and she didn't want the shame of having her fallen daughter live with her. That hellhole was hideous beyond belief, but the story no longer has a hold on me.

Sounds like we had some crazy mothers!

Helena

Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

I tried imagining my mother as a child before. It couldn't work because I think she is such a monster that I couldn't imagine any child's face as her... They are too angelic for that. Also I've never seen any real photos of her when she was a child. Also, I know this might sound freaky to some of you, but prior to severing ties with her, I used to have nightmares of her trying to kill me almost every time after she had contacted me by long-distance phonecall or email. Its just old memories though, but they feel so fresh and I still feel so scared of her when I think of it, I start trembling and feeling cold. I'd just remember one of those times when she chased me around the flat with a cleaver threatening to cut me up and kill me, or when she was trying to strangle me to death (well, on hindsight I guess she could have just killed me if she wanted but she didn't go through with it so perhaps she wasn't going to.) On a few occasions I went blue in the face before she gave up, once I nearly passed out. Other times she'd lock me up in the bedroom for so many hours, I wasn't sure how long though because my earliest memory of that was about 5 years old. Looking back, I *think* I might have been a depressed child, I don't know. Nobody ever asked about me or showed any concern in what I felt, and I never knew how to express those feelings or even aware of what they really were! I've never seen a psychologist or counsellor. I feel really uncomfortable expressing my thoughts feelings and my past to someone in person. I think they judge me, and I think they will never understand or comprehend me. When I was between the ages of 14 to 17 I went through a self-mutilation phase where I'd cut my arms with pen-knifes and things just for fun, and also if I felt really emotional because I've had a row with my parents, I'd do that because it takes the pain away a little. Then I stopped because my mum saw the scars one day and said I was nuts and threatened to put me into an asylum if I didn't stop this madness. I was afraid of course, because I've been to an old folks' home once as a teen to volunteer, and I saw how bad the conditions were and how little care the people received, and even though it was an old folks' home, there were young people there in their 20s and 30s who are just thrown in there because they were a bit retarded and their family didn't want to look after them anymore.I did not dare to think what the asylums would be like. It was like a national joke - the asylum. People often made fun of the asylum and it really wasn't seen as a place where people would go in, and really get treated and come out fine. It seemed like a place where people would go in and have little hope of ever rejoining society again.So I made a conscious effort to repress all my feelings of fear, anger, sadness, etc... for all these years. I moved out of my home, moved far away, set up a new home for myself, a new family, etc.I read Dorothy Rowe's description of asylums in England and it seems just as much as a place of hopelessness where people hardly ever emerge from it cured.There is no way I am going to go up to a doctor today and say "here's my problem. etc. etc." I don't want any psychiatric drugs, I am having none of it. The life I've built is too good for me to throw away (even if its not perfect).But revisiting the past with my mother is very, very hard and very very traumatic for me. You'd think that in this day, when she's grown old and frail and no longer a match for me in physical strength, that I should have nothing to be afraid of her. Indeed, when I see her in person, I am not afraid of her trying to kill me again. But her words cut into me like daggers and I don't know why I still feel so badly hurt by even just her words. When I try to do any sort of mental exercise to "accept" what she did to me, it just throws up a range of horrible reactions in me that I don't even know where it springs from - the tingling behind my neck, the trembling of my hands, the cold feelings... and the nightmares. Those are the worse. I wake up a wreck, tears in my eyes, heart racing in fear... I feel like I'm going through it all over again.I don't know how or if its ever possible to overcome it.Just typing it out now sends shivers down my spine and makes me well up... When I was in the shower just now, I tried what Helena suggested worked for her in producing forgiveness... but the moment I tried to picture my mum as a child and I went to hug her, I started experiencing panic-attack symptoms again... the trembling, the cold shivers, the heart racing... And then I just had to stop. I just had to. It was so strong. Then I felt like such a failure... and I cried.And now I'm starting to wonder if I'm depressed. Now.I shouldn't be. I was quite happy today all day, until then... (sigh)

[Guest guest]

Hey, , we are here to TRY to help, however imperfect our efforts are. Is it fair to second-guess VC's intentions (per your last sentence below)?

Helena

Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

VC,Yes I am fighting the reality of what happened.Yes it continues to haunt me.No I cannot accept them.Yes you are trivialising what happened to me, even if you insist you don't. > > > >> > > > I have been lurking for some time and really find the advice here useful. I first encountered the book "Get out of your mind..." after I had ended up in A & E twice in March this year due to full-blown panic attacks that could not resolve themselves. So I read the book and did the exercises faithfully and was astounded at how much it had helped me in overcoming my panic attacks and anxiety. I still have some social anxiety lurking around and it flares up sometimes although not all the time when I'm out and about. At the same time that I was reading that book, I was put on Citalopram but couldn't tolerate the side effects so I stopped it myself against the wishes of my GP and did not get any more panic attacks which I credit to the help the book gave me. > > > > > > > > But now that the panic attacks are manageable and almost never flare up, I have another problem. Hatred, and specifically hatred towards parents for what they've done to me in the past.> > > > > > > > My parents were very cruel and unkind to me when I was growing up. They were abusive, controlling, authoritarian and cold (never hugged me or kissed me, never shared any moments of laughter or happiness with me). I left home as soon as I could and have not seen them for over a decade now. We used to speak on the phone very occasionally or email once a year. This is because we still don't agree on lots of issues concerning the way I live my life. Basically I still don't live the way they *wanted* me to and our conversations inadvertently end on a sour note and leave me sad and bitter for days afterwards.> > > > > > > > I don't think of them that much now. I have a family of 3 children whom I spend most of my days looking after and love dearly. But whenever I get some form of contact from them again, I feel a very deep sense of dread. Its almost like I really don't want to keep contact with them anymore because I feel like every time they talk to me, it really affects me deeply and negatively. I think I still have very strong feelings of hatred for them, there is almost no way I can really think of them in any positive light. When I think of them, the feeling I get is just a really strong feeling of hatred. If I had to draw a picture describing how I feel, it would be like a deep black dark hole that sucks all happiness out of me.> > > > > > > > But I also sadness as I realise my parents and I will never get along.> > > > Its sad for me too because I don't have such a relationship with my children and I often wonder why they could not even have treated me with half the decency I do to my children.> > > > > > > > Someone told me that hatred is not good for me (which I agree its true). It takes a lot of effort to hate somebody, and it drains a lot out of you. I agree with it wholeheartedly, but the feelings are so strong that even when I practice acceptance, it never gets rid of them completely. But why does it never leave me? I have already built a new life for myself in a land far away from my parents' more than a decade ago, married with children and live a busy life but I love my children dearly and they fill my life with sunshine. I have some problems with my spouse, but not to the point of divorce, just quibbling often about trivial things, and this is typical of our relationship from the start so nothing really worrying about it.> > > > > > > > Its just that I feel frustrated at times when I sense the feelings of hatred returning every time I get contact from my family. I really don't wish to revisit those horrible days living under my parents' wing again but every time the hatred flares up after speaking to them, I am reminded of all those terrible incidents in the past. I am so weary of thinking of them. I severed ties with my dad and mum last year, but now recently I found myself severing ties with my sister and brother as well because they keep echoing the same words that my parents would have (though to a lesser extent)... and everytime they talk to me in that way I start to hate them too because they remind me of my parents so much.> > > > > > > > I still don't know if I was right to sever ties with the entire family completely now. Certainly I find little acceptance and sympathy amongst people if I do choose to divulge to them what I've done. That makes me question whether it was the right thing to do. I'm often told by those who disagree with what I did, that you can never choose your parents in life, and no matter how much they've hurted you, at least they have raised you and you should appreciate them for that and that alone. Which makes me feel like such an ungrateful person and that I'm such a weakling for not being able to keep my feelings of hatred in control.> > > > > > > > But can ACT really help in this? And how can it help? I can certainly accept my feelings of hatred, I even express it quite frankly sometimes, but it seems so unacceptable to many people to hate and especially to hate one's parents.> > > > > > > > I'm really at a loss how to deal with my feelings of hatred.> > > > Am I doing the right thing? > > > > Anybody have any advice for me about this?> > > > > > > > > > > > TIA> > > > > > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this post. It means a lot, and helps a lot. I am a work in progress! I managed to drop the resentment today - haven't managed a warm hug but did manage a warm smile. Chink! Another coin in a valued piggy bank.

Good luck with the deadlines - don't forget to stretch!

Simone

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Fri, 18 June, 2010 17:39:30Subject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

You can think of forgiveness the act and forgiveness the feeling. Can you do forgiveness the act - I would say yes. Can you do forgiveness the feeling - I do not know how to do that. Likewise love. Love the act, love the feeling. I have been married for more than 30 years. The feeling waxes and wanes. The last week on vacation in the motorhome with the kids, last night on the shore of a lake in the Nevada high desert, remembering all the times my wife and I spent in settings much like this. Laying in the sun, watching the white pelicans, swimming. And, thinking of all the times since with the kids--and them nearly grown now. I have felt so full of love (the feeling) that I have been brought to tears numerous times this trip. But I don't feel like that all the time. Heavens, sometimes I feel impatient and angry and unloved and put upon and spiteful and.... On my good days, I am capable of the act of love even when I do not have the feeling of love. It

is not fake. It is not a show. It is engagement in a valued pattern of living.

And, I do not intend to push either the act or the feeling. Forgive if you want. Feel what you feel. Mostly I speak of my own life where resentment and nursing resentment have had very corrosive consequences.

And, I have some people in my life who I spend very very little time with or the kind of interactions I have are quite limited. Why? Well, there are some sorts of interactions that I care about that others do not. Sad, but true. I feel kindly towards some of them, indifferent towards others, and somewhat bitter towards a few. When I exercise the bitterness by talking about them, for example, in ways that are likely to enlist the bitterness of others, I can feel the toxins rise. What is my point in that really? To show the world that there are bad people? Like that is a surprise.... To show the world that others are bad and that I am not like them? Well, I am not like a lot of people and a lot like a lot of people. Depending on the year and the day, I am much more poorly behaved than most. On my better days and years, I am a pretty good Joe.

I have had some experiences with others where I let go of all expectations with them and have had many different outcomes. Sometimes the outcome has been that nothing changes in their behavior at all and the relationships become limited - typically because I stop investing my time in them. But I have had a small number, just a few really, where letting go of expectations has had truly transformational outcomes. Be clear please. I did not do this in order to achieve the outcomes. I forgave because it was in my values to do so.

What does forgiveness "the act" look like for me? Well, I stop trying to get other people to co-sign my resentment. I look for my part in my difficulty with others and clean that up where possible and where it is not dangerous or toxic for me or others. I look at what I am investing my life in, and think about that investment stretched out over time, and then put my feet on the path.

And some days, the very very best I can do is to sit on my hands. Look here for a little piece called days spent sitting on my hands

http://www.facebook .com/note. php?note_ id=134839170789

For me. And I do not say this for anyone but me. Resentment is captured pretty well by the AA adage - resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other guy to die. Maybe not for you. If not, that is fine.

I am deep in some writing deadlines right now, but at sometime soon, I will write about one of these acts of forgiveness.

And, Simone, I LOVE the piggy bank metaphor.

I offer you my heart in gratitude this morning, in this moment, where the feeling and the act have met.

namaste,

kelly

G. 205 Peabody BuildingPsychology DepartmentUniversity of MississippiOxford, MS 38677ph: fax:

academic homepage:www.olemiss. edu/working/ kwilson/kwilson. htm

also check outwww.onelifellc. comwww.mindfulnessfort wo.comwww.facebook. com/kellygwilsonwww.tastybehavioris m.comwww.abnormalwootwoo t.com

[Guest guest]

 

Oooooh! I LOVE it! I WANT it! My soul is scorched!

Now I just have to figure out how to release the anger and not get burned.

Barbara

--- In ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com, " vcferrara " <>

" Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it

at someone else; you are the one who gets burned "

>

> Best,

> VC

>

[Guest guest]

I really like the idea of freedom - of not following the stream of thought. It seems so obvious and simple and yet so hard to implement. And is does seem insincere to act against the flow of your thoughts - but there lies the real freedom. I wish I could feel it in my heart as well as my head. Maybe that will come in time. The book you mentioned sounds good - another one on my wish list!

Sorry about the 'man thing' comment. Helena got it spot on. You guys aren't ALL that bad!

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Fri, 18 June, 2010 22:04:21Subject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

another good book here maybe...WHEN THE PAST IS PRESENT, Richio

it is mindfulness- based and is good for detecting what you might be recycling in terms of resentments

in zen, they say, the progress seems terrible, too slow, but maybe you are making some progress anyway. usually, if it's gradual it will be more solid.

to act one way and feel another is another kind of freedom. it is maybe more foreign to us americans, except where we feel we HAVE TO. we tend to label it "insincere." but it is common in other parts of the world to varying degrees. in Japan, maybe it's too much, but this is because for them it is often pliance-based. ..it is often social pressure oriented. But, it gives them some additional freedom at times as well. there is really no flexibility if you lead with your feelings. you have to follow that stream.

sometimes the feelings change with our activity, sometimes not. in any case, you did what you said you'd do which is most important it seems.

everyone has a hard time with this...this is in part why religions arose. even back then, it was obvious we were struggling in these ways.

jason

From: Stolton <adrianandboo@ yahoo.co. uk>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Fri, June 18, 2010 7:21:28 AMSubject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Hi ,

Thanks for that. I've been mulling on it and realise that I am being very unACT like in my approach to my relationship. Its quite a tricky one being warm and supportive and kind when your head is buzzing with resentment. In fact it feels quite strange and almost dishonest - how can you act one way but feel another? I suppose thats the whole point of ACT and applies to relationships as well as anything else. And yes I'll try to give myself what I want from him - although it might look a bit strange having a conversation with myself and laughing at my own jokes, whilst giving myself a hug!

I am going to take your advice and 's and get off my BUT and start acting on my values even if my husband is too depleted and absent to notice!

Has anyone else tried giving a hug whilst feeling whilst still feeling angry? Huh?! I can only try and report back!

Simone

From: Gosnell <jhgosnellyahoo (DOT) com>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 21:26:27Subject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

give yourself what you want from him where possible...

then, maybe you stay or go, but not so depleted.

doing ACT is one way to do self-intimacy?

kind regards, jason

From: Stolton <adrianandboo@ yahoo.co. uk>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Wed, June 16, 2010 4:18:24 PMSubject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

That is wonderful. But I was just wondering - in my relationship, I value companionship, warmth, intimacy, but my husband is a workaholic. He basically comes in from work each night and zones out in front of the tv and then falls alsleep. I go to bed alone with hardly a word passed between us. I have told him how I feel. He is a good man in many respects, but he frustrates the hell out of me. Now when I do as you say and let go and focus on something else I'm ok - I turn my attention to another value, or try to be warm and responsive to him, even though I get precious little in return - but then the resentment bubbles up again and I think, 'why should it always be me that works on our relationship' . So I am blowing hot and cold with him as my ACT skills fluctuate! So now what? Turn my attention to another value? Keep banging my head against the brick wall of this relationship? Or leave - which is not really an option - because I could not

do that to my daughter - and besides- somewhere deeply buried under heaps of resentment I think there is still some love. I have a birds nest in my head, and I don't know where to invest. Any ideas anyone?

Simone

From: <kwilsonolemiss (DOT) edu>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Wed, 16 June, 2010 19:39:34Subject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Here is a little snippet from a book I am working on (tentatively entitled - the Wisdom to Know the Difference). Lots in there in on anger and resentment. For now, it is also posted in my facebook notes.

http://www.facebook .com/note. php?created & & suggest & note_id=10150195876 400790

Letting go of anger can be approached as a practice. Think of it this way....thoughts and feelings come along. I don't know any way to stop them over the long haul. Like the birds that fly over the place I live. The question is: do I want to put up nesting boxes, feeders, suet blocks, etc? Well, for birds, sure. I like birds and I am an avid backyard bird watcher. It makes sense to invest some time and energy in that. But feelings of anger, jealously, self contempt? I am not going to invest a lot in making them a place to live and feeding them. So the question I have for myself is--how much am I investing in these thoughts and feelings, and, is that what I want to do with my time? If the answer is "too much time" and "no I have other things I

want to use my time and energy on" then I can make a gentle turn back towards what I value. This is not avoidance of anger. It is simply setting it aside in the service of what I value. Think of it like a meditation. As I sit and notice my breath, I may find myself thinking about the tasks of the day. Are the tasks real? Sure. Am I justified in thinking about them? Sure. Is that what I am doing right now? No. I am meditating. Thanks mind, but I am going to visit my breath now I have carved out a little time for breath and I to sit together. You can come along if you like, but that is where I am going.Except in the anger example, I return not to my breath, but instead to my value. My life becomes a meditation. Returning again and again to that which I value. Letting go again and again of that which grabs my attention but is not what I want to invest in this particular day.Will the thoughts and feelings fly over

again (and again, and again, and again, etc)? Sure. And I know that trying to prevent them from flying over just doesn't work. So, I return to what I wish to invest myself in. My value.Now, you might value being right about how wrong someone is. OK. I believe you. Now what?The issue as I am casting it here is less about whether the feeling is good, bad, justified, unjustified, true, not true, etc. Those conversations never get me far and I don't invest much in them. The question is where will I invest myself? What do I want on my tombstone?He justified his anger?He was right about how wrong they were?These things may well be true, but there are other things that I would prefer to be remembered for, other places I want to invest my time. Life is short and precious. Today's chance to do the next right thing may be my last. How will I spend it in this very moment? And, this moment? And, this

moment?

with my warm regards, from the road,

G. 205 Peabody BuildingPsychology DepartmentUniversity of MississippiOxford, MS 38677ph: fax:

academic homepage:www.olemiss. edu/working/ kwilson/kwilson. htm

also check outwww.onelifellc. comwww.mindfulnessfort wo.comwww.facebook. com/kellygwilsonwww.tastybehavioris m.comwww.abnormalwootwoo t.com

Oooooh! I LOVE it! I WANT it! My soul is scorched!Now I just have to figure out how to release the anger and not get burned.Barbara--- In ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com, "vcferrara" <> "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned"> > Best,> VC>

[Guest guest]

, ACT advice would be the first to tell you, if this isn't working for you, go find something that does. ACT isn't for everyone.

So go find it. And when you do, be sure to check back in and tell us what worked.

Good luck to you! Sorry this forum was frustrating and unhelpful to you in the end. I for one am very glad it's here for those who do find it helpful. I've tried a whole bunch of other methods and none have worked as well.

Subject: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 10:35 AM

WOW. I now feel like more of a social "outcast" in this forum than ever.Helena : Actually do you know what? You are second-guessing me too. We're all second-guessing each other. That's what humans do. Second-guess each other right? So I don't know. On one hand, I take what you say as something true. On the other hand, I get the feeling you meant it as a telling off. If that is so, then I'll ask you this : Who do you think you are? The morality police? If VC is incensed, he can certainly speak up for himself. I don't know about him, but if I were him I'd certainly not appreciate some old lady trying to speak up for me here.As for , well, I think he is just being quiet because he refuses to acknowledge that his therapy isn't working in some cases. In my case anyway. Whilst I think his book helped, I am in no way on the way to becoming a fan.And I won't even be wasting my time on this forum any longer. For all I know, its

probably something that the ACT practitioners set up in order to positively-promote their own product and anything else that goes against what they want to promote gets swept under the carpet. Or they leave it to people who aren't actual practitioners to do all the fighting for them on here.I hereby apologise for having trespassed into the CHURCH of ACT and possibly have upset all its followers (NOT!)Good riddance. >> I have been lurking for some time and really find the advice here useful. I first encountered the book "Get out of your mind..." after I had ended up in A & E twice in March this year due to full-blown panic attacks

that could not resolve themselves. So I read the book and did the exercises faithfully and was astounded at how much it had helped me in overcoming my panic attacks and anxiety. I still have some social anxiety lurking around and it flares up sometimes although not all the time when I'm out and about. At the same time that I was reading that book, I was put on Citalopram but couldn't tolerate the side effects so I stopped it myself against the wishes of my GP and did not get any more panic attacks which I credit to the help the book gave me. > > But now that the panic attacks are manageable and almost never flare up, I have another problem. Hatred, and specifically hatred towards parents for what they've done to me in the past.> > My parents were very cruel and unkind to me when I was growing up. They were abusive, controlling, authoritarian and cold (never hugged me or kissed me, never shared any moments of laughter or

happiness with me). I left home as soon as I could and have not seen them for over a decade now. We used to speak on the phone very occasionally or email once a year. This is because we still don't agree on lots of issues concerning the way I live my life. Basically I still don't live the way they *wanted* me to and our conversations inadvertently end on a sour note and leave me sad and bitter for days afterwards.> > I don't think of them that much now. I have a family of 3 children whom I spend most of my days looking after and love dearly. But whenever I get some form of contact from them again, I feel a very deep sense of dread. Its almost like I really don't want to keep contact with them anymore because I feel like every time they talk to me, it really affects me deeply and negatively. I think I still have very strong feelings of hatred for them, there is almost no way I can really think of them in any positive light. When I think of

them, the feeling I get is just a really strong feeling of hatred. If I had to draw a picture describing how I feel, it would be like a deep black dark hole that sucks all happiness out of me.> > But I also sadness as I realise my parents and I will never get along.> Its sad for me too because I don't have such a relationship with my children and I often wonder why they could not even have treated me with half the decency I do to my children.> > Someone told me that hatred is not good for me (which I agree its true). It takes a lot of effort to hate somebody, and it drains a lot out of you. I agree with it wholeheartedly, but the feelings are so strong that even when I practice acceptance, it never gets rid of them completely. But why does it never leave me? I have already built a new life for myself in a land far away from my parents' more than a decade ago, married with children and live a busy life but I love my

children dearly and they fill my life with sunshine. I have some problems with my spouse, but not to the point of divorce, just quibbling often about trivial things, and this is typical of our relationship from the start so nothing really worrying about it.> > Its just that I feel frustrated at times when I sense the feelings of hatred returning every time I get contact from my family. I really don't wish to revisit those horrible days living under my parents' wing again but every time the hatred flares up after speaking to them, I am reminded of all those terrible incidents in the past. I am so weary of thinking of them. I severed ties with my dad and mum last year, but now recently I found myself severing ties with my sister and brother as well because they keep echoing the same words that my parents would have (though to a lesser extent)... and everytime they talk to me in that way I start to hate them too because they remind me of my

parents so much.> > I still don't know if I was right to sever ties with the entire family completely now. Certainly I find little acceptance and sympathy amongst people if I do choose to divulge to them what I've done. That makes me question whether it was the right thing to do. I'm often told by those who disagree with what I did, that you can never choose your parents in life, and no matter how much they've hurted you, at least they have raised you and you should appreciate them for that and that alone. Which makes me feel like such an ungrateful person and that I'm such a weakling for not being able to keep my feelings of hatred in control.> > But can ACT really help in this? And how can it help? I can certainly accept my feelings of hatred, I even express it quite frankly sometimes, but it seems so unacceptable to many people to hate and especially to hate one's parents.> > I'm really at a loss how to deal

with my feelings of hatred.> Am I doing the right thing? > Anybody have any advice for me about this?> > > TIA> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks S,

He did have a big shock a few years back when I became very close with a guy at work. This guy was all the things my husband was not - relaxed, funny, self-depreciating....but, I had to be strong, I didn't feel like leaving my husband for a man who could chase a married woman with two children at that time - so I backed off- felt bad and tried to get marriage back on track.Which in fact it did for a bit - I think the thought of me up and leaving with someone else shook him to the core and it gave our marriage a new lease of life for a while.

But hey - I don't feel like making demands of my husband anymore - I just want him to be happy and not so stressed out all the time and start having some fun. I can't demand that he do that but I geuss it would help if I did the same and stopped angsting about it! Ain't life complicated!

Simone

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sat, 19 June, 2010 9:52:07Subject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Oooooh! I LOVE it! I WANT it! My soul is scorched!Now I just have to figure out how to release the anger and not get burned.Barbara--- In ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com, "vcferrara" <> "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned"> > Best,> VC>

[Guest guest]

Ouch

Thanks for setting in motion a lively and provocative discussion; I learned a lot.

I wish you all the best, . ACT isn't for everyone.

Helena

Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

WOW. I now feel like more of a social "outcast" in this forum than ever.Helena : Actually do you know what? You are second-guessing me too. We're all second-guessing each other. That's what humans do. Second-guess each other right? So I don't know. On one hand, I take what you say as something true. On the other hand, I get the feeling you meant it as a telling off. If that is so, then I'll ask you this : Who do you think you are? The morality police? If VC is incensed, he can certainly speak up for himself. I don't know about him, but if I were him I'd certainly not appreciate some old lady trying to speak up for me here.As for , well, I think he is just being quiet because he refuses to acknowledge that his therapy isn't working in some cases. In my case anyway. Whilst I think his book helped, I am in no way on the way to becoming a fan.And I won't even be wasting my time on this forum any longer. For all I know, its probably something that the ACT practitioners set up in order to positively-promote their own product and anything else that goes against what they want to promote gets swept under the carpet. Or they leave it to people who aren't actual practitioners to do all the fighting for them on here.I hereby apologise for having trespassed into the CHURCH of ACT and possibly have upset all its followers (NOT!)Good riddance. >> I have been lurking for some time and really find the advice here useful. I first encountered the book "Get out of your mind..." after I had ended up in A & E twice in March this year due to full-blown panic attacks that could not resolve themselves. So I read the book and did the exercises faithfully and was astounded at how much it had helped me in overcoming my panic attacks and anxiety. I still have some social anxiety lurking around and it flares up sometimes although not all the time when I'm out and about. At the same time that I was reading that book, I was put on Citalopram but couldn't tolerate the side effects so I stopped it myself against the wishes of my GP and did not get any more panic attacks which I credit to the help the book gave me. > > But now that the panic attacks are manageable and almost never flare up, I have another problem. Hatred, and specifically hatred towards parents for what they've done to me in the past.> > My parents were very cruel and unkind to me when I was growing up. They were abusive, controlling, authoritarian and cold (never hugged me or kissed me, never shared any moments of laughter or happiness with me). I left home as soon as I could and have not seen them for over a decade now. We used to speak on the phone very occasionally or email once a year. This is because we still don't agree on lots of issues concerning the way I live my life. Basically I still don't live the way they *wanted* me to and our conversations inadvertently end on a sour note and leave me sad and bitter for days afterwards.> > I don't think of them that much now. I have a family of 3 children whom I spend most of my days looking after and love dearly. But whenever I get some form of contact from them again, I feel a very deep sense of dread. Its almost like I really don't want to keep contact with them anymore because I feel like every time they talk to me, it really affects me deeply and negatively. I think I still have very strong feelings of hatred for them, there is almost no way I can really think of them in any positive light. When I think of them, the feeling I get is just a really strong feeling of hatred. If I had to draw a picture describing how I feel, it would be like a deep black dark hole that sucks all happiness out of me.> > But I also sadness as I realise my parents and I will never get along.> Its sad for me too because I don't have such a relationship with my children and I often wonder why they could not even have treated me with half the decency I do to my children.> > Someone told me that hatred is not good for me (which I agree its true). It takes a lot of effort to hate somebody, and it drains a lot out of you. I agree with it wholeheartedly, but the feelings are so strong that even when I practice acceptance, it never gets rid of them completely. But why does it never leave me? I have already built a new life for myself in a land far away from my parents' more than a decade ago, married with children and live a busy life but I love my children dearly and they fill my life with sunshine. I have some problems with my spouse, but not to the point of divorce, just quibbling often about trivial things, and this is typical of our relationship from the start so nothing really worrying about it.> > Its just that I feel frustrated at times when I sense the feelings of hatred returning every time I get contact from my family. I really don't wish to revisit those horrible days living under my parents' wing again but every time the hatred flares up after speaking to them, I am reminded of all those terrible incidents in the past. I am so weary of thinking of them. I severed ties with my dad and mum last year, but now recently I found myself severing ties with my sister and brother as well because they keep echoing the same words that my parents would have (though to a lesser extent)... and everytime they talk to me in that way I start to hate them too because they remind me of my parents so much.> > I still don't know if I was right to sever ties with the entire family completely now. Certainly I find little acceptance and sympathy amongst people if I do choose to divulge to them what I've done. That makes me question whether it was the right thing to do. I'm often told by those who disagree with what I did, that you can never choose your parents in life, and no matter how much they've hurted you, at least they have raised you and you should appreciate them for that and that alone. Which makes me feel like such an ungrateful person and that I'm such a weakling for not being able to keep my feelings of hatred in control.> > But can ACT really help in this? And how can it help? I can certainly accept my feelings of hatred, I even express it quite frankly sometimes, but it seems so unacceptable to many people to hate and especially to hate one's parents.> > I'm really at a loss how to deal with my feelings of hatred.> Am I doing the right thing? > Anybody have any advice for me about this?> > > TIA> >

[Guest guest]

maybe so. i don't object to the idea.

anyway, you can only do your best with your relationship...meaning take care of your half.

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 6:32:51 PMSubject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

I'll take a stab at that, from my point of view : )

I think the "man thing" is this: It seems that it is almost always the woman who wants a deeper emotional connection in the marriage than the man does (that is expressed and not just taken for granted) and, thus, she undertakes the responsibility to make that happen -- or nothing would happen.

True for every man and woman? Not at all. But it was true for me and my female friends in most of our male/female relationships.

Helena

Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Here is a little snippet from a book I am working on (tentatively entitled - the Wisdom to Know the Difference). Lots in there in on anger and resentment. For now, it is also posted in my facebook notes.

http://www.facebook .com/note. php?created & & suggest & note_id=10150195876 400790

Letting go of anger can be approached as a practice. Think of it this way....thoughts and feelings come along. I don't know any way to stop them over the long haul. Like the birds that fly over the place I live. The question is: do I want to put up nesting boxes, feeders, suet blocks, etc? Well, for birds, sure. I like birds and I am an avid backyard bird watcher. It makes sense to invest some time and energy in that. But feelings of anger, jealously, self contempt? I am not going to invest a lot in making them a place to live and feeding them. So the question I have for myself is--how much am I investing in these thoughts and feelings, and, is that what I want to do with my time? If the answer is "too much time" and "no I have other things I

want to use my time and energy on" then I can make a gentle turn back towards what I value. This is not avoidance of anger. It is simply setting it aside in the service of what I value. Think of it like a meditation. As I sit and notice my breath, I may find myself thinking about the tasks of the day. Are the tasks real? Sure. Am I justified in thinking about them? Sure. Is that what I am doing right now? No. I am meditating. Thanks mind, but I am going to visit my breath now I have carved out a little time for breath and I to sit together. You can come along if you like, but that is where I am going.Except in the anger example, I return not to my breath, but instead to my value. My life becomes a meditation. Returning again and again to that which I value. Letting go again and again of that which grabs my attention but is not what I want to invest in this particular day.Will the thoughts and feelings fly over

again (and again, and again, and again, etc)? Sure. And I know that trying to prevent them from flying over just doesn't work. So, I return to what I wish to invest myself in. My value.Now, you might value being right about how wrong someone is. OK. I believe you. Now what?The issue as I am casting it here is less about whether the feeling is good, bad, justified, unjustified, true, not true, etc. Those conversations never get me far and I don't invest much in them. The question is where will I invest myself? What do I want on my tombstone?He justified his anger?He was right about how wrong they were?These things may well be true, but there are other things that I would prefer to be remembered for, other places I want to invest my time. Life is short and precious. Today's chance to do the next right thing may be my last. How will I spend it in this very moment? And, this moment? And, this

moment?

with my warm regards, from the road,

G. 205 Peabody BuildingPsychology DepartmentUniversity of MississippiOxford, MS 38677ph: fax:

academic homepage:www.olemiss. edu/working/ kwilson/kwilson. htm

also check outwww.onelifellc. comwww.mindfulnessfort wo.comwww.facebook. com/kellygwilsonwww.tastybehavioris m.comwww.abnormalwootwoo t.com

Oooooh! I LOVE it! I WANT it! My soul is scorched!Now I just have to figure out how to release the anger and not get burned.Barbara--- In ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com, "vcferrara" <> "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned"> > Best,> VC>

[Guest guest]

if you establish a valued direction...you act in accordance with that. that's sincere.

admittedly, not a strength of mine...maybe it's hard for everyone.

the "thoughts" that you seem to be going against are the ones that typically derail you from the valued direction if you hook into them without awareness.

you have two levels so to speak, the new value and the old conditioning/learning.

since you have taken the time to establish the new values, you can see that these thoughts, your learning history often, are to be accepted and not acted upon.

it is very much sincere from this point of view to follow the value and to simply notice/accept that thinking that seeks to derail you.

i think that two ways you can experience difficulty here are...

1. you have a very new value, so you find yourself on two streams often...the new path and the old one...you may still be evaluating whether or not to fully go with the new stream. this is an unavoidable back and forth process for a time. the thoughts are just manifestations of the old path, not wrong. maybe even you will chose to go back to the other path...who knows.

2. related to the above, but not the same...that the thoughts that are coming up indicate another value that seems to be at odds with the new one. for example, you are exercising to lose weight, but there are certain types of food you also enjoy and may be part of your cultural heritage. then, you have to work out those two values and often experience some degree of natural conflict between them. the thoughts arising are related to the two seemingly different values. then, you have to work that out as you go, but don't expect it to always be a perfect "integration" with no inner conflict.

real peace is participation

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sat, June 19, 2010 3:57:06 AMSubject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

I really like the idea of freedom - of not following the stream of thought. It seems so obvious and simple and yet so hard to implement. And is does seem insincere to act against the flow of your thoughts - but there lies the real freedom. I wish I could feel it in my heart as well as my head. Maybe that will come in time. The book you mentioned sounds good - another one on my wish list!

Sorry about the 'man thing' comment. Helena got it spot on. You guys aren't ALL that bad!

From: Gosnell <jhgosnellyahoo (DOT) com>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Fri, 18 June, 2010 22:04:21Subject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

another good book here maybe...WHEN THE PAST IS PRESENT, Richio

it is mindfulness- based and is good for detecting what you might be recycling in terms of resentments

in zen, they say, the progress seems terrible, too slow, but maybe you are making some progress anyway. usually, if it's gradual it will be more solid.

to act one way and feel another is another kind of freedom. it is maybe more foreign to us americans, except where we feel we HAVE TO. we tend to label it "insincere." but it is common in other parts of the world to varying degrees. in Japan, maybe it's too much, but this is because for them it is often pliance-based. ..it is often social pressure oriented. But, it gives them some additional freedom at times as well. there is really no flexibility if you lead with your feelings. you have to follow that stream.

sometimes the feelings change with our activity, sometimes not. in any case, you did what you said you'd do which is most important it seems.

everyone has a hard time with this...this is in part why religions arose. even back then, it was obvious we were struggling in these ways.

jason

From: Stolton <adrianandboo@ yahoo.co. uk>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Fri, June 18, 2010 7:21:28 AMSubject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Hi ,

Thanks for that. I've been mulling on it and realise that I am being very unACT like in my approach to my relationship. Its quite a tricky one being warm and supportive and kind when your head is buzzing with resentment. In fact it feels quite strange and almost dishonest - how can you act one way but feel another? I suppose thats the whole point of ACT and applies to relationships as well as anything else. And yes I'll try to give myself what I want from him - although it might look a bit strange having a conversation with myself and laughing at my own jokes, whilst giving myself a hug!

I am going to take your advice and 's and get off my BUT and start acting on my values even if my husband is too depleted and absent to notice!

Has anyone else tried giving a hug whilst feeling whilst still feeling angry? Huh?! I can only try and report back!

Simone

From: Gosnell <jhgosnellyahoo (DOT) com>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Thu, 17 June, 2010 21:26:27Subject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

give yourself what you want from him where possible...

then, maybe you stay or go, but not so depleted.

doing ACT is one way to do self-intimacy?

kind regards, jason

From: Stolton <adrianandboo@ yahoo.co. uk>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Wed, June 16, 2010 4:18:24 PMSubject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

That is wonderful. But I was just wondering - in my relationship, I value companionship, warmth, intimacy, but my husband is a workaholic. He basically comes in from work each night and zones out in front of the tv and then falls alsleep. I go to bed alone with hardly a word passed between us. I have told him how I feel. He is a good man in many respects, but he frustrates the hell out of me. Now when I do as you say and let go and focus on something else I'm ok - I turn my attention to another value, or try to be warm and responsive to him, even though I get precious little in return - but then the resentment bubbles up again and I think, 'why should it always be me that works on our relationship' . So I am blowing hot and cold with him as my ACT skills fluctuate! So now what? Turn my attention to another value? Keep banging my head against the brick wall of this relationship? Or leave - which is not really an option - because I could not

do that to my daughter - and besides- somewhere deeply buried under heaps of resentment I think there is still some love. I have a birds nest in my head, and I don't know where to invest. Any ideas anyone?

Simone

From: <kwilsonolemiss (DOT) edu>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Wed, 16 June, 2010 19:39:34Subject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Here is a little snippet from a book I am working on (tentatively entitled - the Wisdom to Know the Difference). Lots in there in on anger and resentment. For now, it is also posted in my facebook notes.

http://www.facebook .com/note. php?created & & suggest & note_id=10150195876 400790

Letting go of anger can be approached as a practice. Think of it this way....thoughts and feelings come along. I don't know any way to stop them over the long haul. Like the birds that fly over the place I live. The question is: do I want to put up nesting boxes, feeders, suet blocks, etc? Well, for birds, sure. I like birds and I am an avid backyard bird watcher. It makes sense to invest some time and energy in that. But feelings of anger, jealously, self contempt? I am not going to invest a lot in making them a place to live and feeding them. So the question I have for myself is--how much am I investing in these thoughts and feelings, and, is that what I want to do with my time? If the answer is "too much time" and "no I have other things I

want to use my time and energy on" then I can make a gentle turn back towards what I value. This is not avoidance of anger. It is simply setting it aside in the service of what I value. Think of it like a meditation. As I sit and notice my breath, I may find myself thinking about the tasks of the day. Are the tasks real? Sure. Am I justified in thinking about them? Sure. Is that what I am doing right now? No. I am meditating. Thanks mind, but I am going to visit my breath now I have carved out a little time for breath and I to sit together. You can come along if you like, but that is where I am going.Except in the anger example, I return not to my breath, but instead to my value. My life becomes a meditation. Returning again and again to that which I value. Letting go again and again of that which grabs my attention but is not what I want to invest in this particular day.Will the thoughts and feelings fly over

again (and again, and again, and again, etc)? Sure. And I know that trying to prevent them from flying over just doesn't work. So, I return to what I wish to invest myself in. My value.Now, you might value being right about how wrong someone is. OK. I believe you. Now what?The issue as I am casting it here is less about whether the feeling is good, bad, justified, unjustified, true, not true, etc. Those conversations never get me far and I don't invest much in them. The question is where will I invest myself? What do I want on my tombstone?He justified his anger?He was right about how wrong they were?These things may well be true, but there are other things that I would prefer to be remembered for, other places I want to invest my time. Life is short and precious. Today's chance to do the next right thing may be my last. How will I spend it in this very moment? And, this moment? And, this

moment?

with my warm regards, from the road,

G. 205 Peabody BuildingPsychology DepartmentUniversity of MississippiOxford, MS 38677ph: fax:

academic homepage:www.olemiss. edu/working/ kwilson/kwilson. htm

also check outwww.onelifellc. comwww.mindfulnessfort wo.comwww.facebook. com/kellygwilsonwww.tastybehavioris m.comwww.abnormalwootwoo t.com

Oooooh! I LOVE it! I WANT it! My soul is scorched!Now I just have to figure out how to release the anger and not get burned.Barbara--- In ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com, "vcferrara" <> "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned"> > Best,> VC>

[Guest guest]

: thank you for sharing that. maybe you've done the right things. only you can know...it seems to me. or, maybe we don't know until much later.

personally, i would count that as another concept: "I need to get over the hatred of my parents."

You could get stuck there too trying to get over that..."I need to forgive them."

it can become another control agenda kind of thing. your therapist (if you have one) may even get stuck in that one. spiritual people often get stuck there trying to be "spiritual." it's not always unwillingness...it may be an issue of undreadiness.

i don't know how fused you are to those kinds of ideas. but, here's a nice game, if you want it..."what would my life look like if i was 10% less attached to that concept?" for example, the one above.

you can still have a vital, flexible life even though you have these thoughts and feelings...and even if it seems "unresolved."

Also, sometimes insted of noticing feelings, it may be better to shift your attention and engage some activity to help stabilize you. if you are in a high arousal state, it is sometimes not so good to try to observe feelings or thoughts because they seem to be BIGGER than you are in that moment. it may make your worse.

thanks for your story,

jason

PS, other people can't really know how long you may need to just hate your parents. it may serve some important function for the time being. even therapists cannot tell you for sure. there are many good books by Melody Beattie about this...desgined for codependency, but really it covers everything.

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 9:01:45 AMSubject: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

There are a lot of replies about focusing on ACT techniques and I'm already doing them. There is no doubt in my mind that ACT techniques can lessen the pain of hatred when it occurs, but it can't cure the hatred itself. Its kind of like taking an aspirin for a flu-induced fever, but it doesn't actually cure the flu.I was looking for answers how to actually "cure the flu" so to speak, i.e. make my hatred of my parents history, but trying to wish hatred away for good is perhaps an unrealistic wish. Like anxiety it will always have the potential to crop up again. But unlike anxiety, hatred feels ten times worse and although I can use the techniques to relieve it, I can feel that its not gone for good, at the back of my mind, it always threatens to return in future, no matter how many years since I last felt it. My mind is so ingrained with hating them on auto whenever I even just see their face (even if I just think of their face in my mind). I

don't think there's been a lot of research done on hatred, yes? Hatred appears to be the opposite of love, and if you can't love you can't hate. If you can't feel emotional, you can't hate. But if I continue to be an emotional being, I will always have the propensity to hate.I think cutting ties with family is probably the most important step I've taken in eliminating as many unnecessary hate-inducing contact I can have with them. After all I'm already living thousands of miles away from them, so day-to-day contact doesn't exist unless they turn up on my doorstep one day after coming out of a long-haul plane - which is never gonna happen anyway because who's gonna spend so much money buying a long-haul flight to UK just to piss me off? I know they won't. I can take steps to try and cut out all their contact so that less of those hateful incidents can happen...But then everytime someone who doesn't know me well asks about my mum/dad its

also a triggering event because then I'd be reminded of their faces and all the feelings of hatred get stirred up again. I can practise ACT yes... and then for a while look a bit like an idiot staring into space unable to speak for a while while I focus on noticing my feelings, which are so strong I can hardly do much else except whilst I'm doing all that mental gymnastics.Its a never-ending conundrum and an irony of life.>> Hi.> > > > I have a rough time with personal relationships with-in my extended family.> I was ridiculed and made fun of, shunned because of my birth circumstances> and my very existence within the family was resented by many. I was raised>

by my grandparents as their own child, but I actually was a granddaughter.> My mother Kay had me when she was sisteen, this was back in the mid 50's in> a very conservative back waters town. I was thirteen when the truth was told> to me and of the many feelings I had, being ashamed was overwhelming and> shaped my life. Growing up as a teenager I rebelled constantly, eventually> quite school, ran away, etc:. I am a highly sensitive person I have> suffered from comments and or actions from family members that have left me> empty ,sad, destroyed and forever feeling guilty, even if I am not to blame.> I in turn have further damaged relationships with members by being> inflexible and angry, acting out on my hurt and rejection.> > > > My grandmother loved me, I didn't realize how much she protected me from> other family members until she was gone. Since her

death, I am estranged> from most of my siblings. My grandmother made space for me in the family ,> and would not tolerate out and out meanness directed at me from others in> the family. And in turn would plead my case, some viewed this as I was> spoiled. With her death that protection died. > > > > I believed that family would stand by you no matter what. I had this> believe that you would always be forgiven because you are family. I had> this believe that I would be accepted and liked and welcomed with open arms> because I was family. I knew that my family was not perfect, but they were> family who were after all always going to have a special place for me. Love> me. No not true. Learning to accept the circumstance for what they are,> was hard. It hurt tremendously, I was very confused as to how I fitted> into all this, why I had so many conflicting

emotions, why I acted so badly.> > > > > > I can, even after all these years - become very fussed with the thoughts and> feelings I can have about how I think the family should be, how they should> treat me (past experiences) and I them (judgments). I Believe my story as> being the absolute truth and justified in being anger and hating. Feed my> ego. All it has done is caused pain and bitterness for me and others. I> cannot do anything to change what happened. I have offered apologies which> are not accepted. This all hurts tremendously. I have learnt to accept the> thoughts around "family" as just thoughts.(ACT therapy) I have learnt to> accept the occasional interaction with a family member with a smile and a> politeness that I would accord any person that I had met. When my buttons> are being pushed wither by me or them, I have learnt to

stay calm, allow and> expand with the thoughts, and carry on in a way that reflects my value of> being a kind person.(ACT ) When there is contact because of births,> graduations, I send a card or an email wishing well. In the case of> funerals I go and don't stay around after offering condolences. I can> accept this situation, not liking it, allow the thought to wash over me in> waves, eventually those thought become less intense and wain. In unexpected> meetings with relatives I no longer try to avoid them, like at the grocery> store. I carry on with my values as best I can. It was not easy in the> beginning , it is not easy at times when I am overcome with sadness, guilt,> betrayal. It is not easy when I visualize the way it should be, or could> have been. If, buts' and maybes... wishing and worrying does not change> the facts. It is what it is. We were born into our

families without> choice, we can choice our friends and we can choose the values that we want> to reflect as a human being. > > > > I have found the exercise for the white room helpful - a thought comes in> one door swings around the room and departs by the other door. I am only> the observer. I also like to get physical active, as this forces me to> concentrate on what I am doing, (mindfulness). I get charged with adrenaline> and need to move(get physical) to displace this energy in a non-self> destructive means. I will use different combination of> acceptance/expansion/diffusion exercises. The Mindfulness Acceptance> Workbook for Anxiety offers many exercises, or any good ACT therapy book> will contain some exercises to help. This board Is also tremendously> helpful as there are many people who understand applying ACT and are able to>

express themselves quite articulately with process. > > > > The Serenity Prayer- somehow seemed ACT appropriate today.> > All the best Bre > > > > > > "Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the> courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: ACT_for_the_Public > [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of Mrs Himani Samdhya> Dumre> Sent: Monday, June

14, 2010 10:46 PM> To: ACT_for_the_Public > Subject: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of> hatred towards your parents??> > > > > > Hi , I lurk on this group also.. I am new to ACT and have a therapist> who is doing ACT with me... we have only just started.. I can relate to your> troubles with your birth family. I don't exactly feel hatred but more like> rage and anger at my mother and father.. but more so my mother as she was> the "well" one and did nothing to change the situation of domestic violence> I grew up in. I really would rather not see her anymore... My father passed> away 7 years ago. I don't have contact with my birth sister.. that is a long>

story... Last time I saw my mother we ended up in a horrible argument.. She> wants a close relationship with my baby daughter but I would rather not have> her in my life very much at all.. My husband and I were thinking of having> another child but then my mental health took a turn for the worse after> seeing my mother and we started questioning the sense of having another> child.. I have bipolar.> > > > I am also trying to learn how to unhook and defuse from these awful thoughts> that bother me in relation to seeing my mother.. I can understand what you> said about others not understanding why one has made a break from birth> family.. I got that also from people...which just made me feel guilty.> > > > I hope I am not going off topic to much I just related so much to what you> wrote... would be interested to work out how to use ACT on

such heavy and> dark thoughts.> > > > Peace> > Georgia> > How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred> towards your parents??> > > > > > I have been lurking for some time and really find the advice here useful. I> first encountered the book "Get out of your mind..." after I> had ended up in A & E twice in March this year due to full-blown panic attacks> that could not resolve themselves. So I read the book and did the

exercises> faithfully and was astounded at how much it had helped me in overcoming my> panic attacks and anxiety. I still have some social anxiety lurking around> and it flares up sometimes although not all the time when I'm out and about.> At the same time that I was reading that book, I was put on Citalopram but> couldn't tolerate the side effects so I stopped it myself against the wishes> of my GP and did not get any more panic attacks which I credit to the help> the book gave me. > > But now that the panic attacks are manageable and almost never flare up, I> have another problem. Hatred, and specifically hatred towards parents for> what they've done to me in the past.> > My parents were very cruel and unkind to me when I was growing up. They were> abusive, controlling, authoritarian and cold (never hugged me or kissed me,> never shared any

moments of laughter or happiness with me). I left home as> soon as I could and have not seen them for over a decade now. We used to> speak on the phone very occasionally or email once a year. This is because> we still don't agree on lots of issues concerning the way I live my life.> Basically I still don't live the way they *wanted* me to and our> conversations inadvertently end on a sour note and leave me sad and bitter> for days afterwards.> > I don't think of them that much now. I have a family of 3 children whom I> spend most of my days looking after and love dearly. But whenever I get some> form of contact from them again, I feel a very deep sense of dread. Its> almost like I really don't want to keep contact with them anymore because I> feel like every time they talk to me, it really affects me deeply and> negatively. I think I still have very strong

feelings of hatred for them,> there is almost no way I can really think of them in any positive light.> When I think of them, the feeling I get is just a really strong feeling of> hatred. If I had to draw a picture describing how I feel, it would be like a> deep black dark hole that sucks all happiness out of me.> > But I also sadness as I realise my parents and I will never get along.> Its sad for me too because I don't have such a relationship with my children> and I often wonder why they could not even have treated me with half the> decency I do to my children.> > Someone told me that hatred is not good for me (which I agree its true). It> takes a lot of effort to hate somebody, and it drains a lot out of you. I> agree with it wholeheartedly, but the feelings are so strong that even when> I practice acceptance, it never gets rid of them completely. But

why does it> never leave me? I have already built a new life for myself in a land far> away from my parents' more than a decade ago, married with children and live> a busy life but I love my children dearly and they fill my life with> sunshine. I have some problems with my spouse, but not to the point of> divorce, just quibbling often about trivial things, and this is typical of> our relationship from the start so nothing really worrying about it.> > Its just that I feel frustrated at times when I sense the feelings of hatred> returning every time I get contact from my family. I really don't wish to> revisit those horrible days living under my parents' wing again but every> time the hatred flares up after speaking to them, I am reminded of all those> terrible incidents in the past. I am so weary of thinking of them. I severed> ties with my dad and mum last year,

but now recently I found myself severing> ties with my sister and brother as well because they keep echoing the same> words that my parents would have (though to a lesser extent)... and> everytime they talk to me in that way I start to hate them too because they> remind me of my parents so much.> > I still don't know if I was right to sever ties with the entire family> completely now. Certainly I find little acceptance and sympathy amongst> people if I do choose to divulge to them what I've done. That makes me> question whether it was the right thing to do. I'm often told by those who> disagree with what I did, that you can never choose your parents in life,> and no matter how much they've hurted you, at least they have raised you and> you should appreciate them for that and that alone. Which makes me feel like> such an ungrateful person and that I'm such a

weakling for not being able to> keep my feelings of hatred in control.> > But can ACT really help in this? And how can it help? I can certainly accept> my feelings of hatred, I even express it quite frankly sometimes, but it> seems so unacceptable to many people to hate and especially to hate one's> parents.> > I'm really at a loss how to deal with my feelings of hatred.> Am I doing the right thing? > Anybody have any advice for me about this?> > TIA> >

[Guest guest]

i think that forgiveness is the right term, but to most of us it implies there is some wrongdoing.

those are associations we have about that term.

to me, forgiveness = acceptance.

what happens when i accept, hey, i am really angry about this? or even enraged!!

there is space for me to be what i am now, or to be myself now.

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 8:43:10 AMSubject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Bill, I appreciate your insight and the wise things you said in your post, except for one thing. Why would it be helpful to to forgive herself for carrying around her anger? It sounds like "blaming the victim" in a way. I am not saying she should continue to carry around this anger if it is getting in the way of her living a valued life, and I agree that the ACT processes could help her to accept and defuse her feelings. I just don't get why she would need to forgive herself when that makes it sound like she has done something wrong.

Appreciate any feedback you might have.

Helena

[ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??> > > > Hi ,> > I'm familiar with feeling great anger towards one's parents - I had> a difficult relationship with my own father over many decades, and> often blamed him when I was younger for having neglected me, etc.> However every family is different, so I can't pretend to know what> you have gone through, nor attempt to give you advice based on the> choices I have made for myself.> > From what you say, it

sounds like you are really suffering & that> your life is being affected in lots of ways - by your struggle with> these feelings; by having to defend your stance toward your parents> to others; by having had to cut your siblings out of your life now> as well; and by the sadness you feel. That seems like a lot of> hurt.> > Let me offer a couple of ideas.> > First, I would not use the word "acceptance" to describe your> attitude towards your feelings about your parents. You write that> you don't like the feelings you get when you speak with them,> because these feelings affect you "deeply and negatively." You also> say that such feelings have persisted in your life, despite your> efforts to get rid of them by "practicing acceptance."> > In ACT, acceptance means that we are able to feel our thoughts and> feelings without believing that

they control our behavior. We may> not always like them, but we are willing to have them without> either trying to get rid of or justify them. So as I say, right> now, "acceptance" does not seem to be where you're at with with> these difficult feelings you're having. It seems more like you> struggle with them (wish they would go away) at some times and fuse> with them (defend them as 100 percent reality) at others.> > Second, I think it might be useful to look at what is meant in ACT> by "forgiving." I'm not an expert in any way, but I will try and> repeat what I have read & heard.> > In ACT, forgiving is not a feeling, nor does it mean that you are> excusing harmful behaviors by others. Forgiving is more like a> choice you make - choice meaning it is something you do freely, not> something forced upon you. If you choose to forgive, you do it

not> for others, but for yourself, so you can get back your life and> your freedom.> > Another way to think of forgiving is as a chosen behavior. You say> that ACT has helped you with panic attacks, so maybe this analogy> will be helpful: Say you want to go out to some public event but> are afraid you will have a panic attack if you do. With ACT, you> can have those fearful thoughts & feelings and still choose your> behavior - that is, you can go to the public event even though> these thoughts and feelings say you can't. Forgiveness may be like> that.> > I hope this is a little helpful. Maybe other folks on the list will> step in & describe more about forgiving from an ACT perspective.> > --Randy> > P.S. I just read the reply by Bre (bahurwood) in this thread. There> is a lot there about forgiveness in

action.> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsych ology.org> > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_ Public, you may > unsubscribe by sending an email to > ACT_for_the_ Public-unsubscri beyahoogroups (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

oops, i should have let Bill speak for himself. I got bored today and maybe over-emailed!

jason

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sat, June 19, 2010 4:40:00 PMSubject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

i think that forgiveness is the right term, but to most of us it implies there is some wrongdoing.

those are associations we have about that term.

to me, forgiveness = acceptance.

what happens when i accept, hey, i am really angry about this? or even enraged!!

there is space for me to be what i am now, or to be myself now.

From: Helena <hbbrcomcast (DOT) net>To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com>Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 8:43:10 AMSubject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Bill, I appreciate your insight and the wise things you said in your post, except for one thing. Why would it be helpful to to forgive herself for carrying around her anger? It sounds like "blaming the victim" in a way. I am not saying she should continue to carry around this anger if it is getting in the way of her living a valued life, and I agree that the ACT processes could help her to accept and defuse her feelings. I just don't get why she would need to forgive herself when that makes it sound like she has done something wrong.

Appreciate any feedback you might have.

Helena

[ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??> > > > Hi ,> > I'm familiar with feeling great anger towards one's parents - I had> a difficult relationship with my own father over many decades, and> often blamed him when I was younger for having neglected me, etc.> However every family is different, so I can't pretend to know what> you have gone through, nor attempt to give you advice based on the> choices I have made for myself.> > From what you say, it

sounds like you are really suffering & that> your life is being affected in lots of ways - by your struggle with> these feelings; by having to defend your stance toward your parents> to others; by having had to cut your siblings out of your life now> as well; and by the sadness you feel. That seems like a lot of> hurt.> > Let me offer a couple of ideas.> > First, I would not use the word "acceptance" to describe your> attitude towards your feelings about your parents. You write that> you don't like the feelings you get when you speak with them,> because these feelings affect you "deeply and negatively." You also> say that such feelings have persisted in your life, despite your> efforts to get rid of them by "practicing acceptance."> > In ACT, acceptance means that we are able to feel our thoughts and> feelings without believing that

they control our behavior. We may> not always like them, but we are willing to have them without> either trying to get rid of or justify them. So as I say, right> now, "acceptance" does not seem to be where you're at with with> these difficult feelings you're having. It seems more like you> struggle with them (wish they would go away) at some times and fuse> with them (defend them as 100 percent reality) at others.> > Second, I think it might be useful to look at what is meant in ACT> by "forgiving." I'm not an expert in any way, but I will try and> repeat what I have read & heard.> > In ACT, forgiving is not a feeling, nor does it mean that you are> excusing harmful behaviors by others. Forgiving is more like a> choice you make - choice meaning it is something you do freely, not> something forced upon you. If you choose to forgive, you do it

not> for others, but for yourself, so you can get back your life and> your freedom.> > Another way to think of forgiving is as a chosen behavior. You say> that ACT has helped you with panic attacks, so maybe this analogy> will be helpful: Say you want to go out to some public event but> are afraid you will have a panic attack if you do. With ACT, you> can have those fearful thoughts & feelings and still choose your> behavior - that is, you can go to the public event even though> these thoughts and feelings say you can't. Forgiveness may be like> that.> > I hope this is a little helpful. Maybe other folks on the list will> step in & describe more about forgiving from an ACT perspective.> > --Randy> > P.S. I just read the reply by Bre (bahurwood) in this thread. There> is a lot there about forgiveness in

action.> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsych ology.org> > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_ Public, you may > unsubscribe by sending an email to > ACT_for_the_ Public-unsubscri beyahoogroups (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

i call it premature forgiveness. forgiveness for most of us is a process? i think so

it seems like to me that you have to grow a little and get some separation from another person BEFORE you can look back and go, oh, i see what some of that was about...or even just let go some.

only this year did i think, oh, maybe my mom is lonely. and i am 39 years old! it never occurred to me.

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sat, June 19, 2010 5:30:53 PMSubject: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Very cool and compassionate take, .Yep, I've seen spiritual people (or folks who fancy themselves spiritual) get really caught up in that "I need to forgive" thing and they're so into the get rid of this now that it sadly becomes something they aren't owning but doing out of a fear or a should-- to look or feel spiritual or whatever. I was in a group once where a very adept tennis player shared how she was so grossly cheated out of a championship game and it was clear she was upset (as she takes the game seriously and works hard at it). She went on to say because she is on a spiritual plane,she was not at all upset and that she even shook the cheater's hand afterward. Clapping ensued upon her recounting this tale.Maybe she was telling the truth, but I felt a chill go up my spine. What I saw and felt was heaviness and flat affect and nothing near a sense of opening up or lightness that true forgiveness and acceptance brings.

It appeared to me a lot more like resignation and suppression and avoidance than acceptance/forgiveness.I could understand her not confronting the cheater if you're not into confronting folks who have done you wrong (it's often not worth it or wise or safe), but to then go on and shake her hand? To me that felt like abandoning her Self, a bit like condoning abuse. In psych circles as some here know, they sometimes call this response: "reaction formation"--kind of like smiling at someone who has just offended you or continuing to engage someone you know to be abusive.I've done this before if I skip steps and don't at least quietly acknowledge to myself "Wow, what a poor sport. She just cheated and I feel like I've just been punched in the gut". Then if needed, I can go on to defuse and choose what action to take (if any) based on my values. But I didn't hear any of that in her--she was not the chooser, she was doing what she had

been told to do in order to stay away from that demon called resentment.Might work for her, and maybe for her there is no middle road when it comes to anger, but that's not what I want.On the other hand, I've seen people (including myself) really get sucked into anger and resentment and it can quickly have them/me by the throat-- become corrosive as said. So it's a fine line there, and it's really about my larger intention, me thinks.For me, I think it's about staying honest and open and curious as to what is working and what isn't. Cause this is tricky stuff and it will take on a life of it's own if left un-checked. I need to ask myself questions like: What is my larger goal here? Is there anything to be gained from this other than feeling temporarily superior/right? Is it bringing me lightness of beingor more heaviness?What would my life be like without this feeling/thought?

Is there a fear I might disappear without this in my life?Might I be inadvertently using this anger/resentment as something to hide behind?Is this resentment/anger/envy (whatever) perhaps a smokescreen for something else that I'm not attending to? Can it help point me to another part of me, a need/want/value that is asking for some time and attention?Only we/I can know the answer. Honor that. Own that.Holding lightly all,Terry> >> > Hi.> > > > > > > > I have a rough time with personal relationships with-in my extended family.>

> I was ridiculed and made fun of, shunned because of my birth circumstances> > and my very existence within the family was resented by many. I was raised> > by my grandparents as their own child, but I actually was a granddaughter.> > My mother Kay had me when she was sisteen, this was back in the mid 50's in> > a very conservative back waters town. I was thirteen when the truth was told> > to me and of the many feelings I had, being ashamed was overwhelming and> > shaped my life. Growing up as a teenager I rebelled constantly, eventually> > quite school, ran away, etc:. I am a highly sensitive person I have> > suffered from comments and or actions from family members that have left me> > empty ,sad, destroyed and forever feeling guilty, even if I am not to blame.> > I in turn have further damaged relationships with members by being> >

inflexible and angry, acting out on my hurt and rejection.> > > > > > > > My grandmother loved me, I didn't realize how much she protected me from> > other family members until she was gone. Since her death, I am estranged> > from most of my siblings. My grandmother made space for me in the family ,> > and would not tolerate out and out meanness directed at me from others in> > the family. And in turn would plead my case, some viewed this as I was> > spoiled. With her death that protection died. > > > > > > > > I believed that family would stand by you no matter what. I had this> > believe that you would always be forgiven because you are family. I had> > this believe that I would be accepted and liked and welcomed with open arms> > because I was family. I knew that my family was not perfect, but

they were> > family who were after all always going to have a special place for me. Love> > me. No not true. Learning to accept the circumstance for what they are,> > was hard. It hurt tremendously, I was very confused as to how I fitted> > into all this, why I had so many conflicting emotions, why I acted so badly.> > > > > > > > > > > > I can, even after all these years - become very fussed with the thoughts and> > feelings I can have about how I think the family should be, how they should> > treat me (past experiences) and I them (judgments). I Believe my story as> > being the absolute truth and justified in being anger and hating. Feed my> > ego. All it has done is caused pain and bitterness for me and others. I> > cannot do anything to change what happened. I have offered apologies which> >

are not accepted. This all hurts tremendously. I have learnt to accept the> > thoughts around "family" as just thoughts.(ACT therapy) I have learnt to> > accept the occasional interaction with a family member with a smile and a> > politeness that I would accord any person that I had met. When my buttons> > are being pushed wither by me or them, I have learnt to stay calm, allow and> > expand with the thoughts, and carry on in a way that reflects my value of> > being a kind person.(ACT ) When there is contact because of births,> > graduations, I send a card or an email wishing well. In the case of> > funerals I go and don't stay around after offering condolences. I can> > accept this situation, not liking it, allow the thought to wash over me in> > waves, eventually those thought become less intense and wain. In unexpected> > meetings with

relatives I no longer try to avoid them, like at the grocery> > store. I carry on with my values as best I can. It was not easy in the> > beginning , it is not easy at times when I am overcome with sadness, guilt,> > betrayal. It is not easy when I visualize the way it should be, or could> > have been. If, buts' and maybes... wishing and worrying does not change> > the facts. It is what it is. We were born into our families without> > choice, we can choice our friends and we can choose the values that we want> > to reflect as a human being. > > > > > > > > I have found the exercise for the white room helpful - a thought comes in> > one door swings around the room and departs by the other door. I am only> > the observer. I also like to get physical active, as this forces me to> > concentrate on what I am doing,

(mindfulness). I get charged with adrenaline> > and need to move(get physical) to displace this energy in a non-self> > destructive means. I will use different combination of> > acceptance/expansion/diffusion exercises. The Mindfulness Acceptance> > Workbook for Anxiety offers many exercises, or any good ACT therapy book> > will contain some exercises to help. This board Is also tremendously> > helpful as there are many people who understand applying ACT and are able to> > express themselves quite articulately with process. > > > > > > > > The Serenity Prayer- somehow seemed ACT appropriate today.> > > > All the best Bre > > > > > > > > > > > > "Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the> > courage to change the things I can, and

the wisdom to know the difference."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: ACT_for_the_Public > > [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of Mrs Himani Samdhya> > Dumre> > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 10:46 PM> > To: ACT_for_the_Public > > Subject: Re: How do

you resolve strong feelings of> > hatred towards your parents??> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi , I lurk on this group also.. I am new to ACT and have a therapist> > who is doing ACT with me... we have only just started.. I can relate to your> > troubles with your birth family. I don't exactly feel hatred but more like> > rage and anger at my mother and father.. but more so my mother as she was> > the "well" one and did nothing to change the situation of domestic violence> > I grew up in. I really would rather not see her anymore... My father passed> > away 7 years ago. I don't have contact with my birth sister.. that is a long> > story... Last time I saw my mother we ended up in a horrible argument.. She> > wants a close relationship with my baby daughter but I would rather not have> > her in my

life very much at all.. My husband and I were thinking of having> > another child but then my mental health took a turn for the worse after> > seeing my mother and we started questioning the sense of having another> > child.. I have bipolar.> > > > > > > > I am also trying to learn how to unhook and defuse from these awful thoughts> > that bother me in relation to seeing my mother.. I can understand what you> > said about others not understanding why one has made a break from birth> > family.. I got that also from people...which just made me feel guilty.> > > > > > > > I hope I am not going off topic to much I just related so much to what you> > wrote... would be interested to work out how to use ACT on such heavy and> > dark thoughts.> > > > > > > >

Peace> > > > Georgia> > > > How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred> > towards your parents??> > > > > > > > > > > > I have been lurking for some time and really find the advice here useful. I> > first encountered the book "Get out of your mind..." after I> > had ended up in A & E twice in March this year due to full-blown panic attacks> > that could not resolve themselves. So I

read the book and did the exercises> > faithfully and was astounded at how much it had helped me in overcoming my> > panic attacks and anxiety. I still have some social anxiety lurking around> > and it flares up sometimes although not all the time when I'm out and about.> > At the same time that I was reading that book, I was put on Citalopram but> > couldn't tolerate the side effects so I stopped it myself against the wishes> > of my GP and did not get any more panic attacks which I credit to the help> > the book gave me. > > > > But now that the panic attacks are manageable and almost never flare up, I> > have another problem. Hatred, and specifically hatred towards parents for> > what they've done to me in the past.> > > > My parents were very cruel and unkind to me when I was growing up. They were> > abusive,

controlling, authoritarian and cold (never hugged me or kissed me,> > never shared any moments of laughter or happiness with me). I left home as> > soon as I could and have not seen them for over a decade now. We used to> > speak on the phone very occasionally or email once a year. This is because> > we still don't agree on lots of issues concerning the way I live my life.> > Basically I still don't live the way they *wanted* me to and our> > conversations inadvertently end on a sour note and leave me sad and bitter> > for days afterwards.> > > > I don't think of them that much now. I have a family of 3 children whom I> > spend most of my days looking after and love dearly. But whenever I get some> > form of contact from them again, I feel a very deep sense of dread. Its> > almost like I really don't want to keep contact with them

anymore because I> > feel like every time they talk to me, it really affects me deeply and> > negatively. I think I still have very strong feelings of hatred for them,> > there is almost no way I can really think of them in any positive light.> > When I think of them, the feeling I get is just a really strong feeling of> > hatred. If I had to draw a picture describing how I feel, it would be like a> > deep black dark hole that sucks all happiness out of me.> > > > But I also sadness as I realise my parents and I will never get along.> > Its sad for me too because I don't have such a relationship with my children> > and I often wonder why they could not even have treated me with half the> > decency I do to my children.> > > > Someone told me that hatred is not good for me (which I agree its true). It> > takes a lot

of effort to hate somebody, and it drains a lot out of you. I> > agree with it wholeheartedly, but the feelings are so strong that even when> > I practice acceptance, it never gets rid of them completely. But why does it> > never leave me? I have already built a new life for myself in a land far> > away from my parents' more than a decade ago, married with children and live> > a busy life but I love my children dearly and they fill my life with> > sunshine. I have some problems with my spouse, but not to the point of> > divorce, just quibbling often about trivial things, and this is typical of> > our relationship from the start so nothing really worrying about it.> > > > Its just that I feel frustrated at times when I sense the feelings of hatred> > returning every time I get contact from my family. I really don't wish to> > revisit

those horrible days living under my parents' wing again but every> > time the hatred flares up after speaking to them, I am reminded of all those> > terrible incidents in the past. I am so weary of thinking of them. I severed> > ties with my dad and mum last year, but now recently I found myself severing> > ties with my sister and brother as well because they keep echoing the same> > words that my parents would have (though to a lesser extent)... and> > everytime they talk to me in that way I start to hate them too because they> > remind me of my parents so much.> > > > I still don't know if I was right to sever ties with the entire family> > completely now. Certainly I find little acceptance and sympathy amongst> > people if I do choose to divulge to them what I've done. That makes me> > question whether it was the right thing to do.

I'm often told by those who> > disagree with what I did, that you can never choose your parents in life,> > and no matter how much they've hurted you, at least they have raised you and> > you should appreciate them for that and that alone. Which makes me feel like> > such an ungrateful person and that I'm such a weakling for not being able to> > keep my feelings of hatred in control.> > > > But can ACT really help in this? And how can it help? I can certainly accept> > my feelings of hatred, I even express it quite frankly sometimes, but it> > seems so unacceptable to many people to hate and especially to hate one's> > parents.> > > > I'm really at a loss how to deal with my feelings of hatred.> > Am I doing the right thing? > > Anybody have any advice for me about this?> > > > TIA> >

> >>

[Guest guest]

>>For me, I think it's about staying honest and open and curious as to what is working and what isn't. Cause this is tricky stuff and it will take on a life of it's own if left un-checked.<<

personally, i think this is the best way. critical.

the only time i've seen it go bad is when good contemplators try to figure it all out in their minds and get stagnant.

the opposite is to think, "i am quite clear on my motives", and go careening through life stepping on everyone.

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sat, June 19, 2010 5:39:20 PMSubject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

i call it premature forgiveness. forgiveness for most of us is a process? i think so

it seems like to me that you have to grow a little and get some separation from another person BEFORE you can look back and go, oh, i see what some of that was about...or even just let go some.

only this year did i think, oh, maybe my mom is lonely. and i am 39 years old! it never occurred to me.

From: "theresa.linder@ ymail.com" <theresa.linder@ ymail.com>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Sat, June 19, 2010 5:30:53 PMSubject: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Very cool and compassionate take, .Yep, I've seen spiritual people (or folks who fancy themselves spiritual) get really caught up in that "I need to forgive" thing and they're so into the get rid of this now that it sadly becomes something they aren't owning but doing out of a fear or a should-- to look or feel spiritual or whatever. I was in a group once where a very adept tennis player shared how she was so grossly cheated out of a championship game and it was clear she was upset (as she takes the game seriously and works hard at it). She went on to say because she is on a spiritual plane,she was not at all upset and that she even shook the cheater's hand afterward. Clapping ensued upon her recounting this tale.Maybe she was telling the truth, but I felt a chill go up my spine. What I saw and felt was heaviness and flat affect and nothing near a sense of opening up or lightness that true forgiveness and acceptance brings.

It appeared to me a lot more like resignation and suppression and avoidance than acceptance/forgiven ess.I could understand her not confronting the cheater if you're not into confronting folks who have done you wrong (it's often not worth it or wise or safe), but to then go on and shake her hand? To me that felt like abandoning her Self, a bit like condoning abuse. In psych circles as some here know, they sometimes call this response: "reaction formation"-- kind of like smiling at someone who has just offended you or continuing to engage someone you know to be abusive.I've done this before if I skip steps and don't at least quietly acknowledge to myself "Wow, what a poor sport. She just cheated and I feel like I've just been punched in the gut". Then if needed, I can go on to defuse and choose what action to take (if any) based on my values. But I didn't hear any of that in her--she was not the chooser, she was doing what she had

been told to do in order to stay away from that demon called resentment.Might work for her, and maybe for her there is no middle road when it comes to anger, but that's not what I want.On the other hand, I've seen people (including myself) really get sucked into anger and resentment and it can quickly have them/me by the throat-- become corrosive as said. So it's a fine line there, and it's really about my larger intention, me thinks.For me, I think it's about staying honest and open and curious as to what is working and what isn't. Cause this is tricky stuff and it will take on a life of it's own if left un-checked. I need to ask myself questions like: What is my larger goal here? Is there anything to be gained from this other than feeling temporarily superior/right? Is it bringing me lightness of beingor more heaviness?What would my life be like without this feeling/thought?

Is there a fear I might disappear without this in my life?Might I be inadvertently using this anger/resentment as something to hide behind?Is this resentment/anger/ envy (whatever) perhaps a smokescreen for something else that I'm not attending to? Can it help point me to another part of me, a need/want/value that is asking for some time and attention?Only we/I can know the answer. Honor that. Own that.Holding lightly all,Terry> >> > Hi.> > > > > > > > I have a rough time with personal relationships with-in my extended

family.> > I was ridiculed and made fun of, shunned because of my birth circumstances> > and my very existence within the family was resented by many. I was raised> > by my grandparents as their own child, but I actually was a granddaughter.> > My mother Kay had me when she was sisteen, this was back in the mid 50's in> > a very conservative back waters town. I was thirteen when the truth was told> > to me and of the many feelings I had, being ashamed was overwhelming and> > shaped my life. Growing up as a teenager I rebelled constantly, eventually> > quite school, ran away, etc:. I am a highly sensitive person I have> > suffered from comments and or actions from family members that have left me> > empty ,sad, destroyed and forever feeling guilty, even if I am not to blame.> > I in turn have further damaged relationships with members by

being> > inflexible and angry, acting out on my hurt and rejection.> > > > > > > > My grandmother loved me, I didn't realize how much she protected me from> > other family members until she was gone. Since her death, I am estranged> > from most of my siblings. My grandmother made space for me in the family ,> > and would not tolerate out and out meanness directed at me from others in> > the family. And in turn would plead my case, some viewed this as I was> > spoiled. With her death that protection died. > > > > > > > > I believed that family would stand by you no matter what. I had this> > believe that you would always be forgiven because you are family. I had> > this believe that I would be accepted and liked and welcomed with open arms> > because I was family. I knew that my family

was not perfect, but they were> > family who were after all always going to have a special place for me. Love> > me. No not true. Learning to accept the circumstance for what they are,> > was hard. It hurt tremendously, I was very confused as to how I fitted> > into all this, why I had so many conflicting emotions, why I acted so badly.> > > > > > > > > > > > I can, even after all these years - become very fussed with the thoughts and> > feelings I can have about how I think the family should be, how they should> > treat me (past experiences) and I them (judgments). I Believe my story as> > being the absolute truth and justified in being anger and hating. Feed my> > ego. All it has done is caused pain and bitterness for me and others. I> > cannot do anything to change what happened. I have offered

apologies which> > are not accepted. This all hurts tremendously. I have learnt to accept the> > thoughts around "family" as just thoughts.(ACT therapy) I have learnt to> > accept the occasional interaction with a family member with a smile and a> > politeness that I would accord any person that I had met. When my buttons> > are being pushed wither by me or them, I have learnt to stay calm, allow and> > expand with the thoughts, and carry on in a way that reflects my value of> > being a kind person.(ACT ) When there is contact because of births,> > graduations, I send a card or an email wishing well. In the case of> > funerals I go and don't stay around after offering condolences. I can> > accept this situation, not liking it, allow the thought to wash over me in> > waves, eventually those thought become less intense and wain. In

unexpected> > meetings with relatives I no longer try to avoid them, like at the grocery> > store. I carry on with my values as best I can. It was not easy in the> > beginning , it is not easy at times when I am overcome with sadness, guilt,> > betrayal. It is not easy when I visualize the way it should be, or could> > have been. If, buts' and maybes... wishing and worrying does not change> > the facts. It is what it is. We were born into our families without> > choice, we can choice our friends and we can choose the values that we want> > to reflect as a human being. > > > > > > > > I have found the exercise for the white room helpful - a thought comes in> > one door swings around the room and departs by the other door. I am only> > the observer. I also like to get physical active, as this forces me to> >

concentrate on what I am doing, (mindfulness) . I get charged with adrenaline> > and need to move(get physical) to displace this energy in a non-self> > destructive means. I will use different combination of> > acceptance/expansio n/diffusion exercises. The Mindfulness Acceptance> > Workbook for Anxiety offers many exercises, or any good ACT therapy book> > will contain some exercises to help. This board Is also tremendously> > helpful as there are many people who understand applying ACT and are able to> > express themselves quite articulately with process. > > > > > > > > The Serenity Prayer- somehow seemed ACT appropriate today.> > > > All the best Bre > > > > > > > > > > > > "Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the> > courage

to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com> > [mailto:ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf Of Mrs Himani Samdhya> > Dumre> > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 10:46 PM> > To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com> >

Subject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] How do you resolve strong feelings of> > hatred towards your parents??> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi , I lurk on this group also.. I am new to ACT and have a therapist> > who is doing ACT with me... we have only just started.. I can relate to your> > troubles with your birth family. I don't exactly feel hatred but more like> > rage and anger at my mother and father.. but more so my mother as she was> > the "well" one and did nothing to change the situation of domestic violence> > I grew up in. I really would rather not see her anymore... My father passed> > away 7 years ago. I don't have contact with my birth sister.. that is a long> > story... Last time I saw my mother we ended up in a horrible argument.. She> > wants a close relationship with my baby daughter but I

would rather not have> > her in my life very much at all.. My husband and I were thinking of having> > another child but then my mental health took a turn for the worse after> > seeing my mother and we started questioning the sense of having another> > child.. I have bipolar.> > > > > > > > I am also trying to learn how to unhook and defuse from these awful thoughts> > that bother me in relation to seeing my mother.. I can understand what you> > said about others not understanding why one has made a break from birth> > family.. I got that also from people...which just made me feel guilty.> > > > > > > > I hope I am not going off topic to much I just related so much to what you> > wrote... would be interested to work out how to use ACT on such heavy and> > dark thoughts.> >

> > > > > > Peace> > > > Georgia> > > > [ACT_for_the_ Public] How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred> > towards your parents??> > > > > > > > > > > > I have been lurking for some time and really find the advice here useful. I> > first encountered the book "Get out of your mind..." after I> > had ended up in A & E twice in March this year due to full-blown panic attacks>

> that could not resolve themselves. So I read the book and did the exercises> > faithfully and was astounded at how much it had helped me in overcoming my> > panic attacks and anxiety. I still have some social anxiety lurking around> > and it flares up sometimes although not all the time when I'm out and about.> > At the same time that I was reading that book, I was put on Citalopram but> > couldn't tolerate the side effects so I stopped it myself against the wishes> > of my GP and did not get any more panic attacks which I credit to the help> > the book gave me. > > > > But now that the panic attacks are manageable and almost never flare up, I> > have another problem. Hatred, and specifically hatred towards parents for> > what they've done to me in the past.> > > > My parents were very cruel and unkind to me when I was

growing up. They were> > abusive, controlling, authoritarian and cold (never hugged me or kissed me,> > never shared any moments of laughter or happiness with me). I left home as> > soon as I could and have not seen them for over a decade now. We used to> > speak on the phone very occasionally or email once a year. This is because> > we still don't agree on lots of issues concerning the way I live my life.> > Basically I still don't live the way they *wanted* me to and our> > conversations inadvertently end on a sour note and leave me sad and bitter> > for days afterwards.> > > > I don't think of them that much now. I have a family of 3 children whom I> > spend most of my days looking after and love dearly. But whenever I get some> > form of contact from them again, I feel a very deep sense of dread. Its> > almost like I

really don't want to keep contact with them anymore because I> > feel like every time they talk to me, it really affects me deeply and> > negatively. I think I still have very strong feelings of hatred for them,> > there is almost no way I can really think of them in any positive light.> > When I think of them, the feeling I get is just a really strong feeling of> > hatred. If I had to draw a picture describing how I feel, it would be like a> > deep black dark hole that sucks all happiness out of me.> > > > But I also sadness as I realise my parents and I will never get along.> > Its sad for me too because I don't have such a relationship with my children> > and I often wonder why they could not even have treated me with half the> > decency I do to my children.> > > > Someone told me that hatred is not good for me (which I

agree its true). It> > takes a lot of effort to hate somebody, and it drains a lot out of you. I> > agree with it wholeheartedly, but the feelings are so strong that even when> > I practice acceptance, it never gets rid of them completely. But why does it> > never leave me? I have already built a new life for myself in a land far> > away from my parents' more than a decade ago, married with children and live> > a busy life but I love my children dearly and they fill my life with> > sunshine. I have some problems with my spouse, but not to the point of> > divorce, just quibbling often about trivial things, and this is typical of> > our relationship from the start so nothing really worrying about it.> > > > Its just that I feel frustrated at times when I sense the feelings of hatred> > returning every time I get contact from my family. I

really don't wish to> > revisit those horrible days living under my parents' wing again but every> > time the hatred flares up after speaking to them, I am reminded of all those> > terrible incidents in the past. I am so weary of thinking of them. I severed> > ties with my dad and mum last year, but now recently I found myself severing> > ties with my sister and brother as well because they keep echoing the same> > words that my parents would have (though to a lesser extent)... and> > everytime they talk to me in that way I start to hate them too because they> > remind me of my parents so much.> > > > I still don't know if I was right to sever ties with the entire family> > completely now. Certainly I find little acceptance and sympathy amongst> > people if I do choose to divulge to them what I've done. That makes me> >

question whether it was the right thing to do. I'm often told by those who> > disagree with what I did, that you can never choose your parents in life,> > and no matter how much they've hurted you, at least they have raised you and> > you should appreciate them for that and that alone. Which makes me feel like> > such an ungrateful person and that I'm such a weakling for not being able to> > keep my feelings of hatred in control.> > > > But can ACT really help in this? And how can it help? I can certainly accept> > my feelings of hatred, I even express it quite frankly sometimes, but it> > seems so unacceptable to many people to hate and especially to hate one's> > parents.> > > > I'm really at a loss how to deal with my feelings of hatred.> > Am I doing the right thing? > > Anybody have any advice for me about

this?> > > > TIA> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Bill did speak for himself, and very well.

Subject: Re: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 6:30 PM

oops, i should have let Bill speak for himself. I got bored today and maybe over-emailed!

jason

From: Gosnell <jhgosnellyahoo (DOT) com>To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Sat, June 19, 2010 4:40:00 PMSubject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

i think that forgiveness is the right term, but to most of us it implies there is some wrongdoing.

those are associations we have about that term.

to me, forgiveness = acceptance.

what happens when i accept, hey, i am really angry about this? or even enraged!!

there is space for me to be what i am now, or to be myself now.

From: Helena <hbbrcomcast (DOT) net>To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com>Sent: Tue, June 15, 2010 8:43:10 AMSubject: Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??

Bill, I appreciate your insight and the wise things you said in your post, except for one thing. Why would it be helpful to to forgive herself for carrying around her anger? It sounds like "blaming the victim" in a way. I am not saying she should continue to carry around this anger if it is getting in the way of her living a valued life, and I agree that the ACT processes could help her to accept and defuse her feelings. I just don't get why she would need to forgive herself when that makes it sound like she has done something wrong.

Appreciate any feedback you might have.

Helena

[ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??> > > > Hi ,> > I'm familiar with feeling great anger towards one's parents - I had> a difficult relationship with my own father over many decades, and> often blamed him when I was younger for having neglected me, etc.> However every family is different, so I can't pretend to know what> you have gone through, nor attempt to give you advice based on the> choices I have made for myself.> > From what you

say, it sounds like you are really suffering & that> your life is being affected in lots of ways - by your struggle with> these feelings; by having to defend your stance toward your parents> to others; by having had to cut your siblings out of your life now> as well; and by the sadness you feel. That seems like a lot of> hurt.> > Let me offer a couple of ideas.> > First, I would not use the word "acceptance" to describe your> attitude towards your feelings about your parents. You write that> you don't like the feelings you get when you speak with them,> because these feelings affect you "deeply and negatively." You also> say that such feelings have persisted in your life, despite your> efforts to get rid of them by "practicing acceptance."> > In ACT, acceptance means that we are able to feel our thoughts and> feelings without

believing that they control our behavior. We may> not always like them, but we are willing to have them without> either trying to get rid of or justify them. So as I say, right> now, "acceptance" does not seem to be where you're at with with> these difficult feelings you're having. It seems more like you> struggle with them (wish they would go away) at some times and fuse> with them (defend them as 100 percent reality) at others.> > Second, I think it might be useful to look at what is meant in ACT> by "forgiving." I'm not an expert in any way, but I will try and> repeat what I have read & heard.> > In ACT, forgiving is not a feeling, nor does it mean that you are> excusing harmful behaviors by others. Forgiving is more like a> choice you make - choice meaning it is something you do freely, not> something forced upon you. If you choose to

forgive, you do it not> for others, but for yourself, so you can get back your life and> your freedom.> > Another way to think of forgiving is as a chosen behavior. You say> that ACT has helped you with panic attacks, so maybe this analogy> will be helpful: Say you want to go out to some public event but> are afraid you will have a panic attack if you do. With ACT, you> can have those fearful thoughts & feelings and still choose your> behavior - that is, you can go to the public event even though> these thoughts and feelings say you can't. Forgiveness may be like> that.> > I hope this is a little helpful. Maybe other folks on the list will> step in & describe more about forgiving from an ACT perspective.> > --Randy> > P.S. I just read the reply by Bre (bahurwood) in this thread. There> is a lot there about

forgiveness in action.> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsych ology.org> > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_ Public, you may > unsubscribe by sending an email to > ACT_for_the_ Public-unsubscri beyahoogroups (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

We tried!> To: ACT_for_the_Public > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 16:35:07 +0000> Subject: Re: How do you resolve strong feelings of hatred towards your parents??> > WOW. I now feel like more of a social "outcast" in this forum than ever.> > Helena : Actually do you know what? You are second-guessing me too. We're all second-guessing each other. That's what humans do. Second-guess each other right? So I don't know. On one hand, I take what you say as something true. On the other hand, I get the feeling you meant it as a telling off. If that is so, then I'll ask you this : Who do you think you are? The morality police? If VC is incensed, he can certainly speak up for himself. I don't know about him, but if I were him I'd certainly not appreciate some old lady trying to speak up for me here.> > As for , well, I think he is just being quiet because he refuses to acknowledge that his therapy isn't working in some cases. In my case anyway. Whilst I think his book helped, I am in no way on the way to becoming a fan.> And I won't even be wasting my time on this forum any longer. > For all I know, its probably something that the ACT practitioners set up in order to positively-promote their own product and anything else that goes against what they want to promote gets swept under the carpet. Or they leave it to people who aren't actual practitioners to do all the fighting for them on here.> > I hereby apologise for having trespassed into the CHURCH of ACT and possibly have upset all its followers (NOT!)> > Good riddance. > > > > > > >> > I have been lurking for some time and really find the advice here useful. I first encountered the book "Get out of your mind..." after I had ended up in A & E twice in March this year due to full-blown panic attacks that could not resolve themselves. So I read the book and did the exercises faithfully and was astounded at how much it had helped me in overcoming my panic attacks and anxiety. I still have some social anxiety lurking around and it flares up sometimes although not all the time when I'm out and about. At the same time that I was reading that book, I was put on Citalopram but couldn't tolerate the side effects so I stopped it myself against the wishes of my GP and did not get any more panic attacks which I credit to the help the book gave me. > > > > But now that the panic attacks are manageable and almost never flare up, I have another problem. Hatred, and specifically hatred towards parents for what they've done to me in the past.> > > > My parents were very cruel and unkind to me when I was growing up. They were abusive, controlling, authoritarian and cold (never hugged me or kissed me, never shared any moments of laughter or happiness with me). I left home as soon as I could and have not seen them for over a decade now. We used to speak on the phone very occasionally or email once a year. This is because we still don't agree on lots of issues concerning the way I live my life. Basically I still don't live the way they *wanted* me to and our conversations inadvertently end on a sour note and leave me sad and bitter for days afterwards.> > > > I don't think of them that much now. I have a family of 3 children whom I spend most of my days looking after and love dearly. But whenever I get some form of contact from them again, I feel a very deep sense of dread. Its almost like I really don't want to keep contact with them anymore because I feel like every time they talk to me, it really affects me deeply and negatively. I think I still have very strong feelings of hatred for them, there is almost no way I can really think of them in any positive light. When I think of them, the feeling I get is just a really strong feeling of hatred. If I had to draw a picture describing how I feel, it would be like a deep black dark hole that sucks all happiness out of me.> > > > But I also sadness as I realise my parents and I will never get along.> > Its sad for me too because I don't have such a relationship with my children and I often wonder why they could not even have treated me with half the decency I do to my children.> > > > Someone told me that hatred is not good for me (which I agree its true). It takes a lot of effort to hate somebody, and it drains a lot out of you. I agree with it wholeheartedly, but the feelings are so strong that even when I practice acceptance, it never gets rid of them completely. But why does it never leave me? I have already built a new life for myself in a land far away from my parents' more than a decade ago, married with children and live a busy life but I love my children dearly and they fill my life with sunshine. I have some problems with my spouse, but not to the point of divorce, just quibbling often about trivial things, and this is typical of our relationship from the start so nothing really worrying about it.> > > > Its just that I feel frustrated at times when I sense the feelings of hatred returning every time I get contact from my family. I really don't wish to revisit those horrible days living under my parents' wing again but every time the hatred flares up after speaking to them, I am reminded of all those terrible incidents in the past. I am so weary of thinking of them. I severed ties with my dad and mum last year, but now recently I found myself severing ties with my sister and brother as well because they keep echoing the same words that my parents would have (though to a lesser extent)... and everytime they talk to me in that way I start to hate them too because they remind me of my parents so much.> > > > I still don't know if I was right to sever ties with the entire family completely now. Certainly I find little acceptance and sympathy amongst people if I do choose to divulge to them what I've done. That makes me question whether it was the right thing to do. I'm often told by those who disagree with what I did, that you can never choose your parents in life, and no matter how much they've hurted you, at least they have raised you and you should appreciate them for that and that alone. Which makes me feel like such an ungrateful person and that I'm such a weakling for not being able to keep my feelings of hatred in control.> > > > But can ACT really help in this? And how can it help? I can certainly accept my feelings of hatred, I even express it quite frankly sometimes, but it seems so unacceptable to many people to hate and especially to hate one's parents.> > > > I'm really at a loss how to deal with my feelings of hatred.> > Am I doing the right thing? > > Anybody have any advice for me about this?> > > > > > TIA> > > >> > > > > ------------------------------------> > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.org> > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may > unsubscribe by sending an email to > ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! 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