Re: Re: 2 days to go: forgot to ask a question

June 16, 2005

Hi Dawn,

I don’t claim to be a professional and was never consulted as such. An email was posted and “our” opinions were asked. I gave mine. Obviously not in a professional manner.

Arnica is great for pre and post surgery and sports related injuries but it may not be great for long term usage. Additionally, in some instances, a person wouldn’t want to use arnica at all because it can speed up healing which may be contraindicated.

Kenda

Hi Kenda,

But, we are speaking of people who are going to go through a major

operation.. some of those herbs you mentioned may not be safe to

take pre or post operatively. The bottom line is that rather than

taking the advise of laymen it is better for someone who is going to

go through a major traumatic operation to consult their plastic

surgeon who is the EXPERT in these situations.

It would be unwise to go with the opinions of others without

consulting the ps.

And Arnica Montana is an excellent pain medication/anti

inflammatory. Infact I have, as I am sure many others have also,

used it for sports related injuries with much success. Arnica is

frequently prescribed post operatively for two weeks and pre op for

two weeks... not always.. most cases involving a physician who is

knowledgeable as to it's effects. I am not aware of how long you can

take arnica...

Dawn

-- In , Kenda Skaggs <kdskaggs@c...>

wrote:

> Hi Dawn,

>

> Of course. That’s why I put in my previous email “if you tolerate

pain meds

> well”.

>

> There are other alternatives to bromelain and to the best of my

knowledge,

> arnica increases healing but not necessarily systemic inflammation

and I

> have been told, but don’t know if it’s true, that arnica is not

intended for

> long term usage. Another product made for inflammation is one

that includes

> skullcap root, bee propolis, turmeric root and gramminex G60. For

me, this

> works much better and doesn’t cause any gut problems whatsoever.

>

> Kenda

>

> > Kenda,

> >

> > We can speculate what made Kim throw up but if you have any

knowledge of

> > Vicodin than you also know that in some people it results in

severe vomiting,

> > not just stomach irritation. To say it was the bromelain is a

guess on

> > anyone's part... the only way to know is to take the items

separately and see

> > what the problem was....

> >

> > When we have these major breast operations it is wise to reduce

as much

> > inflammation as possible naturally via bromelain or arnica

montana. The bottom

> > line is that Kim should consult with her doctor for SOUND

medical advise.. as

> > we are only offering opinions here.

> >

> > Dawn

> >

> > Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:

> >> I think it is the bromelain that upset your stomach, if you

tolerate pain

> >> meds well. It is very acidic and can be upsetting to the gut.

> >>

> >> Kenda

> >>

> >>> Yes, Kenda.. I agree.. that is totally correct. The

instructions I was given

> >>> was to take bromelain on empty stomach.... and yes, vicodin

definitely with

> >>> food.

> >>>

> >>> Dawn

> >>>

> >>> Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:

> >>>> Did you take the bromelain on an empty or full stomach?

Taken on an empty

> >>>> stomach, bromelain acts as an anti-inflammatory. Taken on a

full stomach,

> >>>> it acts as a digestive enzyme. I’d definitely take the

vicodin with food.

> >>>> Synthroid is best on an empty stomach because it is better

absorbed. I

> >>>> don’t know anything at all about cytomel.

> >>>>

> >>>> Kenda

> >>>>

> >>>>> I forgot to mention I also took my first day of bromelain

(vita

> >>>>> medica). Has anyone ever thrown up from this. I think maybe

that

> >>>>> combined with the vicodin ect.. caused me to get sick. I

called the

> >>>>> company, they talked to a doctor and advised me it would be

o.k. to

> >>>>> take some tonight. Any thoughts on this. I'm afraid to try

it again. I

> >>>>> also took my synthroid and cytomel to. Maybe not so smart.

I'm afraid

> >>>>> to try it again. I am just finally holding food down!

Thanks. Kim

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

given by

> >>>>> licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician

or licensed

> >>>>> health care professional before commencing any medical

treatment.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the

politicians mislead you.

> >>>>> Find o ut wh at the facts are, and make your own decisions

about how to

> >>>>> live a happy life and how to work for a better world. " -

Linus ing,

> >>>>> two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> >>>>>

June 16, 2005

Yes, BUT, remember, it is the plastic surgeon who got us into this mess in

the first place. As for pre and post-op, I would read the instructions

from the MD, but for many things, allopathic medicine is not the branch I

trust the most.

Lynda

At 08:00 AM 6/16/2005, you wrote:

>Hi Kenda,

>But, we are speaking of people who are going to go through a major

>operation.. some of those herbs you mentioned may not be safe to

>take pre or post operatively. The bottom line is that rather than

>taking the advise of laymen it is better for someone who is going to

>go through a major traumatic operation to consult their plastic

>surgeon who is the EXPERT in these situations.

>

>It would be unwise to go with the opinions of others without

>consulting the ps.

>

>And Arnica Montana is an excellent pain medication/anti

>inflammatory. Infact I have, as I am sure many others have also,

>used it for sports related injuries with much success. Arnica is

>frequently prescribed post operatively for two weeks and pre op for

>two weeks... not always.. most cases involving a physician who is

>knowledgeable as to it's effects. I am not aware of how long you can

>take arnica...

>

>Dawn

>-- In , Kenda Skaggs <kdskaggs@c...>

>wrote:

> > Hi Dawn,

> >

> > Of course. That¹s why I put in my previous email ³if you tolerate

>pain meds

> > well².

> >

> > There are other alternatives to bromelain and to the best of my

>knowledge,

> > arnica increases healing but not necessarily systemic inflammation

>and I

> > have been told, but don¹t know if it¹s true, that arnica is not

>intended for

> > long term usage. Another product made for inflammation is one

>that includes

> > skullcap root, bee propolis, turmeric root and gramminex G60. For

>me, this

> > works much better and doesn¹t cause any gut problems whatsoever.

> >

> > Kenda

> >

> > > Kenda,

> > >

> > > We can speculate what made Kim throw up but if you have any

>knowledge of

> > > Vicodin than you also know that in some people it results in

>severe vomiting,

> > > not just stomach irritation. To say it was the bromelain is a

>guess on

> > > anyone's part... the only way to know is to take the items

>separately and see

> > > what the problem was....

> > >

> > > When we have these major breast operations it is wise to reduce

>as much

> > > inflammation as possible naturally via bromelain or arnica

>montana. The bottom

> > > line is that Kim should consult with her doctor for SOUND

>medical advise.. as

> > > we are only offering opinions here.

> > >

> > > Dawn

> > >

> > > Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:

> > >> I think it is the bromelain that upset your stomach, if you

>tolerate pain

> > >> meds well. It is very acidic and can be upsetting to the gut.

> > >>

> > >> Kenda

> > >>

> > >>> Yes, Kenda.. I agree.. that is totally correct. The

>instructions I was given

> > >>> was to take bromelain on empty stomach.... and yes, vicodin

>definitely with

> > >>> food.

> > >>>

> > >>> Dawn

> > >>>

> > >>> Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:

> > >>>> Did you take the bromelain on an empty or full stomach?

>Taken on an empty

> > >>>> stomach, bromelain acts as an anti-inflammatory. Taken on a

>full stomach,

> > >>>> it acts as a digestive enzyme. I¹d definitely take the

>vicodin with food.

> > >>>> Synthroid is best on an empty stomach because it is better

>absorbed. I

> > >>>> don¹t know anything at all about cytomel.

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Kenda

> > >>>>

> > >>>>> I forgot to mention I also took my first day of bromelain

>(vita

> > >>>>> medica). Has anyone ever thrown up from this. I think maybe

>that

> > >>>>> combined with the vicodin ect.. caused me to get sick. I

>called the

> > >>>>> company, they talked to a doctor and advised me it would be

>o.k. to

> > >>>>> take some tonight. Any thoughts on this. I'm afraid to try

>it again. I

> > >>>>> also took my synthroid and cytomel to. Maybe not so smart.

>I'm afraid

> > >>>>> to try it again. I am just finally holding food down!

>Thanks. Kim

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

>given by

> > >>>>> licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician

>or licensed

> > >>>>> health care professional before commencing any medical

>treatment.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the

>politicians mislead you.

> > >>>>> Find o ut wh at the facts are, and make your own decisions

>about how to

> > >>>>> live a happy life and how to work for a better world. " -

>Linus ing,

> > >>>>> two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> > >>>>>

June 16, 2005

Kenda,

I never implied you were a professional because if you were you would not be offering medical advise on this board. Let's just agree to disagree. Should anyone want to try any supplements they will hopefully do their own research and take all opinions into consideration. I didn't mention anything about long term useage of Arnica Montana because I was referring to pre and post operative period. It is my hope that none of these women, as I, will not ever need to use these items long term because they are ridding themselves of the SOURCE of their condition, AS I DID. With any herbal remedy we should heed caution, that's a given. Herbs can be unsafe if taken too much, too often, etc. In my opinion, Arnica is and has been an excellent remedy for MY muscle pain from working out or injuries. It comes in tablets that you dissolve under the tongue and in gel form. I haven't used it for months and months... I just don't want Arnica to get a bad rap here because it is a very valuable herb to some of us.

Dawn

Kenda Skaggs & lt;kdskaggs@... & gt; wrote: Hi Dawn,I don’t claim to be a professional and was never consulted as such. An email was posted and “our” opinions were asked. I gave mine. Obviously not in a professional manner. Arnica is great for pre and post surgery and sports related injuries but it may not be great for long term usage. Additionally, in some instances, a person wouldn’t want to use arnica at all because it can speed up healing which may be contraindicated. Kenda

Hi Kenda,But, we are speaking of people who are going to go through a major operation.. some of those herbs you mentioned may not be safe to take pre or post operatively. The bottom line is that rather than taking the advise of laymen it is better for someone who is going to go through a major traumatic operation to consult their plastic surgeon who is the EXPERT in these situations. It would be unwise to go with the opinions of others without consulting the ps. And Arnica Montana is an excellent pain medication/anti inflammatory. Infact I have, as I am sure many others have also, used it for sports related injuries with much success. Arnica is frequently prescribed post operatively for two weeks and pre op for two weeks... not always.. most cases involving a physician who is knowledgeable as to it's effects. I am not aware of how long you

can take arnica...Dawn-- In , Kenda Skaggs <kdskaggs@c...> wrote:> Hi Dawn,> > Of course. That’s why I put in my previous email “if you tolerate pain meds> well”. > > There are other alternatives to bromelain and to the best of my knowledge,> arnica increases healing but not necessarily systemic inflammation and I> have been told, but don’t know if it’s true, that arnica is not intended for> long term usage. Another product made for inflammation is one that includes> skullcap root, bee propolis, turmeric root and gramminex G60. For me, this> works much better and doesn’t cause any gut problems whatsoever.> > Kenda> > > Kenda, > > > > We can speculate what made Kim throw up but if you have any knowledge of> > Vicodin than you also know

that in some people it results in severe vomiting,> > not just stomach irritation. To say it was the bromelain is a guess on> > anyone's part... the only way to know is to take the items separately and see> > what the problem was....> > > > When we have these major breast operations it is wise to reduce as much> > inflammation as possible naturally via bromelain or arnica montana. The bottom> > line is that Kim should consult with her doctor for SOUND medical advise.. as> > we are only offering opinions here.> > > > Dawn > > > > Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:> >> I think it is the bromelain that upset your stomach, if you tolerate pain> >> meds well. It is very acidic and can be upsetting to the gut.> >> > >> Kenda> >> > >> >

>>> Yes, Kenda.. I agree.. that is totally correct. The instructions I was given> >>> was to take bromelain on empty stomach.... and yes, vicodin definitely with> >>> food. > >>> > >>> Dawn > >>> > >>> Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:> >>>> Did you take the bromelain on an empty or full stomach? Taken on an empty> >>>> stomach, bromelain acts as an anti-inflammatory. Taken on a full stomach,> >>>> it acts as a digestive enzyme. I’d definitely take the vicodin with food.> >>>> Synthroid is best on an empty stomach because it is better absorbed. I> >>>> don’t know anything at all about cytomel.> >>>> > >>>> Kenda> >>>> > >>>> >

>>>>> I forgot to mention I also took my first day of bromelain (vita> >>>>> medica). Has anyone ever thrown up from this. I think maybe that> >>>>> combined with the vicodin ect.. caused me to get sick. I called the> >>>>> company, they talked to a doctor and advised me it would be o.k. to> >>>>> take some tonight. Any thoughts on this. I'm afraid to try it again. I> >>>>> also took my synthroid and cytomel to. Maybe not so smart. I'm afraid> >>>>> to try it again. I am just finally holding food down! Thanks. Kim> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by> >>>>> licensed health care professionals.

Consult your physician or licensed> >>>>> health care professional before commencing any medical treatment.> >>>>> > >>>>> "Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.> >>>>> Find o ut wh at the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to> >>>>> live a happy life and how to work for a better world." - Linus ing,> >>>>> two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)> >>>>> > >>>>>

June 16, 2005

I would trust Dr. Feng implicitly.

Lynda

At 09:40 AM 6/16/2005, you wrote:

>Dawn

>That's interesting. Many anti-imflammatories do thin the blood. I

>doubt it matters what the source is but maybe it does. Perhaps Dr.

>Feng thinks that if it thins the blood, it is fairly inconsequential

>(which it may be). Or perhaps she isn't even aware of the

>connection. I went to her three years ago and she didn't prescribe

>anything at all before surgery. It sounds like she has changed her

>protocol somewhat!

>Hugs,kathy

>

> > > I forgot to mention I also took my first day of bromelain

>(vita

> > > medica). Has anyone ever thrown up from this. I think maybe that

> > > combined with the vicodin ect.. caused me to get sick. I called

> > the

> > > company, they talked to a doctor and advised me it would be o.k.

> > to

> > > take some tonight. Any thoughts on this. I'm afraid to try it

> > again. I

> > > also took my synthroid and cytomel to. Maybe not so smart. I'm

> > afraid

> > > to try it again. I am just finally holding food down! Thanks.

>Kim

> >

> > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given

>by licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician or

>licensed health care professional before commencing any medical

>treatment.

> >

> > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

>mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own

>decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a

>better world. " - Linus ing, two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954,

>Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> >

June 16, 2005

It's my observation that women who put their trust in

doctors after getting sick because of their implants

have not done well.

Doctors are NOT Gods, they are OUR EMPLOYEES! Doctors

must listen to what we have to say and tell us the

truth!

Rogene

June 16, 2005

I have been mistreated, misdiagnosed, and had a plastic surgeon dump a load

of silicone in my chest. I almost died from a myelogram. My sister was

just given steroids after jaw surgery when it was clearly in her chart that

she was allergic. I just cannot tell you how many times doctors have been

wrong in my life and my family's life. We need doctors, but we MUST be

educated consumers.

Lynda

At 10:15 AM 6/16/2005, you wrote:

>Lynda

>I wholeheartedly agree. I have a sister who is a pharmacist as well

>as a sister who is a nurse. I can tell you for sure that most

>regular docs don't know that much about the drugs they prescribe.

>They rely on pharmaceutical salespeople to educate them--usually

>during a free lunch. My sister the nurse, gets fed at least once a

>week by drug reps while they peddle their wares. I also know that

>my husband has been prescribed " mistakes " while on coumadin. I

>really research everything myself. Doctors only human and make alot

>of mistakes. My respect for most doctors is in the gutter. But

>then, my husband died as a direct result of the incompetence of

>several doctors who all managed to misdiagnose my husband's aortic

>dissection. IN addition, these so called experts screwed up his

>care for years. For 13 years they knew he had an aortic

>enlargement, and we went to 2specialists, and many

>echocardiographers, cardiologist, etc. When we went to one

>specialist in pittsburgh, he told my husband he should have elective

>surgery to replace his aortic root with a graft. He sent us

>upstairs to see a prominent well respected heart surgeon who told us

>that mike would have more chance of being hit by a car crossing the

>street than having a dissection and that he wouldn't do the surgery

>until it attained a certain size. If he had, mike would be alive

>and well today and my children would still have a father. Instead,

>it grew while they continued to disagree if it was enlarging and it

>dissected. Even then, he had an 85% chance of coming through

>emergency surgery ok. But the E.R. sent us home with a diagnosis

>of " chest muscle pain " and it finally ruptured with him never

>knowing what hit him. I could tell more stories of inept

>gynecologists, endrocrinogoist, dermatologists, rheumatologists, but

>why, they abound everywhere. We have to be our own advocate and I

>will never think the doctor is the expert. They aren't. I have

>been disappointed way too many times to buy that. There are

>certainly some gifted doctors out there, but they are in the

>minority.

>Hugs, kathy

>

> > > > >>>> Did you take the bromelain on an empty or full stomach?

> > >Taken on an empty

> > > > >>>> stomach, bromelain acts as an anti-inflammatory. Taken

>on a

> > >full stomach,

> > > > >>>> it acts as a digestive enzyme. I¹d definitely take the

> > >vicodin with food.

> > > > >>>> Synthroid is best on an empty stomach because it is better

> > >absorbed. I

> > > > >>>> don¹t know anything at all about cytomel.

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>> Kenda

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>>> I forgot to mention I also took my first day of

>bromelain

> > >(vita

> > > > >>>>> medica). Has anyone ever thrown up from this. I think

>maybe

> > >that

> > > > >>>>> combined with the vicodin ect.. caused me to get sick. I

> > >called the

> > > > >>>>> company, they talked to a doctor and advised me it would

>be

> > >o.k. to

> > > > >>>>> take some tonight. Any thoughts on this. I'm afraid to

>try

> > >it again. I

> > > > >>>>> also took my synthroid and cytomel to. Maybe not so

>smart.

> > >I'm afraid

> > > > >>>>> to try it again. I am just finally holding food down!

> > >Thanks. Kim

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of

>advice

> > >given by

> > > > >>>>> licensed health care professionals. Consult your

>physician

> > >or licensed

> > > > >>>>> health care professional before commencing any medical

> > >treatment.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the

> > >politicians mislead you.

> > > > >>>>> Find o ut wh at the facts are, and make your own

>decisions

> > >about how to

> > > > >>>>> live a happy life and how to work for a better world. " -

> > >Linus ing,

> > > > >>>>> two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963,

>Peace)

> > > > >>>>>

June 16, 2005

Dawn,

I’m really at a loss as to what we are disagreeing about. I simply suggested that bromelain could be the cause of upset stomach — that’s a fact. I prefaced my statement regarding upset stomach with the question as to whether Vicadin use had been well tolerated in the past. Arnica Montana is used for short term use and is an excellent product. Some people, myself included, use anti-inflammatory products long term, probably for life, because I/we have inflammatory bodies. Arnica is not indicated for this type of treatment. Some people don’t rid themselves of toxins as easily as others and may need a product designed for long term usage. This doesn’t mean that Arnica is not a bad product, it is a different product intended for a different use.

Kenda

Kenda,

I never implied you were a professional because if you were you would not be offering medical advise on this board. Let's just agree to disagree. Should anyone want to try any supplements they will hopefully do their own research and take all opinions into consideration. I didn't mention anything about long term useage of Arnica Montana because I was referring to pre and post operative period. It is my hope that none of these women, as I, will not ever need to use these items long term because they are ridding themselves of the SOURCE of their condition, AS I DID.

With any herbal remedy we should heed caution, that's a given. Herbs can be unsafe if taken too much, too often, etc. In my opinion, Arnica is and has been an excellent remedy for MY muscle pain from working out or injuries. It comes in tablets that you dissolve under the tongue and in gel form. I haven't used it for months and months... I just don't want Arnica to get a bad rap here because it is a very valuable herb to some of us.

Dawn

Kenda Skaggs & lt;kdskaggs@... & gt; wrote:

Hi Dawn,

I don’t claim to be a professional and was never consulted as such. An email was posted and “our” opinions were asked. I gave mine. Obviously not in a professional manner.

Arnica is great for pre and post surgery and sports related injuries but it may not be great for long term usage. Additionally, in some instances, a person wouldn’t want to use arnica at all because it can speed up healing which may be contraindicated.

Kenda

Hi Kenda,

But, we are speaking of people who are going to go through a major

operation.. some of those herbs you mentioned may not be safe to

take pre or post operatively. The bottom line is that rather than

taking the advise of laymen it is better for someone who is going to

go through a major traumatic operation to consult their plastic

surgeon who is the EXPERT in these situations.

It would be unwise to go with the opinions of others without

consulting the ps.

And Arnica Montana is an excellent pain medication/anti

inflammatory. Infact I have, as I am sure many others have also,

used it for sports related injuries with much success. Arnica is

frequently prescribed post operatively for two weeks and pre op for

two weeks... not always.. most cases involving a physician who is

knowledgeable as to it's effects. I am not aware of how lo ng you can

take arnica...

Dawn

-- In , Kenda Skaggs <kdskaggs@c...>

wrote:

> Hi Dawn,

>

> Of course. That’s why I put in my previous email “if you tolerate

pain meds

> well”.

>

> There are other alternatives to bromelain and to the best of my

knowledge,

> arnica increases healing but not necessarily systemic inflammation

and I

> have been told, but don’t know if it’s true, that arnica is not

intended for

> long term usage. Another product made for inflammation is one

that includes

> skullcap root, bee propolis, turmeric root and gramminex G60. For

me, this

> works much better and doesn’t cause any gut problems whatsoever.

>

> Kenda

>

> > Kenda,

> >

> > We can speculate what made Kim throw up but if you have any

knowledge of

> > Vicodin than you als o know that in some people it results in

severe vomiting,

> > not just stomach irritation. To say it was the bromelain is a

guess on

> > anyone's part... the only way to know is to take the items

separately and see

> > what the problem was....

> >

> > When we have these major breast operations it is wise to reduce

as much

> > inflammation as possible naturally via bromelain or arnica

montana. The bottom

> > line is that Kim should consult with her doctor for SOUND

medical advise.. as

> > we are only offering opinions here.

> >

> > Dawn

> >

> > Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:

> >> I think it is the bromelain that upset your stomach, if you

tolerate pain

> >> meds well. It is very acidic and can be upsetting to the gut.

> >>

> >> Kenda

> >>

> >>> Yes, Kenda.. I agree.. that is totally correct. The

instructions I was given

> >>> was to take bromelain on empty stomach.... and yes, vicodin

definitely with

> >>> food.

> >>>

> >>> Dawn

> >>>

> >>> Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:

> >>>> Did you take the bromelain on an empty or full stomach?

Taken on an empty

> >>>> stomach, bromelain acts as an anti-inflammatory. Taken on a

full stomach,

> >>>> it acts as a digestive enzyme. I’d definitely take the

vicodin with food.

> >>>> Synthroid is best on an empty stomach because it is better

absorbed. I

> >>>> don’t know anything at all about cytomel.

> >>>>

> >>>> Kenda

> >>>>

> >>>>> I forgot to mention I also took my first day of bromelain

(vita

> >>>>> medica). Has anyone ever thrown up from this. I think maybe

that

> >>>>> combined with the vicodin ect.. caused me to get sick. I

called the

> >>>>> company, they talked to a doctor and advised me it would be

o.k. to

> >>>>> take some tonight. Any thoughts on this. I'm afraid to try

it again. I

> >>>>> also took my synthroid and cytomel to. Maybe not so smart.

I'm afraid

> >>>>> to try it again. I am just finally holding food down!

Thanks. Kim

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

given by

> >>>>> licensed health care professio nals. Consult your physician

or licensed

> >>>>> health care professional before commencing any medical

treatment.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the

politicians mislead you.

> >>>>> Find o ut wh at the facts are, and make your own decisions

about how to

> >>>>> live a happy life and how to work for a better world. " -

Linus ing,

> >>>>> two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> >>>>>

June 16, 2005

Kathy, I'm so sorry you had to go through that with your husband and then the implant fiasco on top of it. No wonder you have educated yourself so well when it comes to health issues. I have read in more than one publication that doctors are the third leading cause of death in the U.S.! Love, Anita Re: 2 days to go: forgot to ask a question LyndaI wholeheartedly agree. I have a sister who is a pharmacist as well as a sister who is a nurse. I can tell you for sure that most regular docs don't know that much about the drugs they prescribe. They rely on pharmaceutical salespeople to educate them--usually during a free lunch. My sister the nurse, gets fed at least once a week by drug reps while they peddle their wares. I also know that my husband has been prescribed "mistakes" while on coumadin. I really research everything myself. Doctors only human and make alot of mistakes. My respect for most doctors is in the gutter. But then, my husband died as a direct result of the incompetence of several doctors who all managed to misdiagnose my husband's aortic dissection. IN addition, these so called experts screwed up his care for years. For 13 years they knew he had an aortic enlargement, and we went to 2specialists, and many echocardiographers, cardiologist, etc. When we went to one specialist in pittsburgh, he told my husband he should have elective surgery to replace his aortic root with a graft. He sent us upstairs to see a prominent well respected heart surgeon who told us that mike would have more chance of being hit by a car crossing the street than having a dissection and that he wouldn't do the surgery until it attained a certain size. If he had, mike would be alive and well today and my children would still have a father. Instead, it grew while they continued to disagree if it was enlarging and it dissected. Even then, he had an 85% chance of coming through emergency surgery ok. But the E.R. sent us home with a diagnosis of "chest muscle pain" and it finally ruptured with him never knowing what hit him. I could tell more stories of inept gynecologists, endrocrinogoist, dermatologists, rheumatologists, but why, they abound everywhere. We have to be our own advocate and I will never think the doctor is the expert. They aren't. I have been disappointed way too many times to buy that. There are certainly some gifted doctors out there, but they are in the minority. Hugs, kathy> > > >>>> Did you take the bromelain on an empty or full stomach?> >Taken on an empty> > > >>>> stomach, bromelain acts as an anti-inflammatory. Taken on a> >full stomach,> > > >>>> it acts as a digestive enzyme. I¹d definitely take the> >vicodin with food.> > > >>>> Synthroid is best on an empty stomach because it is better> >absorbed. I> > > >>>> don¹t know anything at all about cytomel.> > > >>>>> > > >>>> Kenda> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I forgot to mention I also took my first day of bromelain> >(vita> > > >>>>> medica). Has anyone ever thrown up from this. I think maybe> >that> > > >>>>> combined with the vicodin ect.. caused me to get sick. I> >called the> > > >>>>> company, they talked to a doctor and advised me it would be> >o.k. to> > > >>>>> take some tonight. Any thoughts on this. I'm afraid to try> >it again. I> > > >>>>> also took my synthroid and cytomel to. Maybe not so smart.> >I'm afraid> > > >>>>> to try it again. I am just finally holding food down!> >Thanks. Kim> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice> >given by> > > >>>>> licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician> >or licensed> > > >>>>> health care professional before commencing any medical> >treatment.> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> "Do not let either the medical authorities or the> >politicians mislead you.> > > >>>>> Find o ut wh at the facts are, and make your own decisions> >about how to> > > >>>>> live a happy life and how to work for a better world." -> >Linus ing,> > > >>>>> two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>

June 16, 2005

Kenda,

You always offer some very great information and are a valuable asset to the group for your knowledge. Some of the things stated as fact are infact not always fact, that is why we seek out non conventional medicine.

I think the misunderstanding lies in the fact that my replies referred to POST operative and PRE operative surgery. I never mentioned that Arnica was to be used for long term inflammation. I don't have a clue, I have never used it for fibromyalgia. I don't know what cases you refer to that quick healing is not good.. and that wasn't the issue I spoke of. I was talking about breast surgery, specifically implant or explant, nothing else. In the case of breast surgery, THE FACT is that QUICK healing is indicated, FACT.

Whether a person is more inflamed than another is not what I was referring to. When breasts are augmented or explanted there is alot of inflammation and that is why drains are used. By the way, have you ever used Vicodin?

Dawn

Kenda Skaggs & lt;kdskaggs@... & gt; wrote: Dawn,I’m really at a loss as to what we are disagreeing about. I simply suggested that bromelain could be the cause of upset stomach — that’s a fact. I prefaced my statement regarding upset stomach with the question as to whether Vicadin use had been well tolerated in the past. Arnica Montana is used for short term use and is an excellent product. Some people, myself included, use anti-inflammatory products long term, probably for life, because I/we have inflammatory bodies. Arnica is not indicated for this type of treatment. Some people don’t rid themselves of toxins as easily as others and may need a product designed for long term usage. This doesn’t mean that Arnica is not a bad product, it is a different product intended for a different

use.Kenda

Kenda, I never implied you were a professional because if you were you would not be offering medical advise on this board. Let's just agree to disagree. Should anyone want to try any supplements they will hopefully do their own research and take all opinions into consideration. I didn't mention anything about long term useage of Arnica Montana because I was referring to pre and post operative period. It is my hope that none of these women, as I, will not ever need to use these items long term because they are ridding themselves of the SOURCE of their condition, AS I DID. With any herbal remedy we should heed caution, that's a given. Herbs can be unsafe if taken too much, too often, etc. In my opinion, Arnica is and has been an excellent remedy for MY muscle pain from working out or injuries. It comes in tablets that you dissolve under the tongue and in gel form. I haven't used it

for months and months... I just don't want Arnica to get a bad rap here because it is a very valuable herb to some of us. Dawn Kenda Skaggs & lt;kdskaggs@... & gt; wrote:

Hi Dawn,I don’t claim to be a professional and was never consulted as such. An email was posted and “our” opinions were asked. I gave mine. Obviously not in a professional manner. Arnica is great for pre and post surgery and sports related injuries but it may not be great for long term usage. Additionally, in some instances, a person wouldn’t want to use arnica at all because it can speed up healing which may be contraindicated. Kenda

Hi Kenda,But, we are speaking of people who are going to go through a major operation.. some of those herbs you mentioned may not be safe to take pre or post operatively. The bottom line is that rather than taking the advise of laymen it is better for someone who is going to go through a major traumatic operation to consult their plastic surgeon who is the EXPERT in these situations. It would be unwise to go with the opinions of others without consulting the ps. And Arnica Montana is an excellent pain medication/anti inflammatory. Infact I have, as I am sure many others have also, used it for sports related injuries with much success. Arnica is frequently prescribed post operatively for two weeks and pre op for two weeks... not always.. most cases involving a physician who is knowledgeable as to it's effects. I am not aware of how lo ng you

can take arnica...Dawn-- In , Kenda Skaggs <kdskaggs@c...> wrote:> Hi Dawn,> > Of course. That’s why I put in my previous email “if you tolerate pain meds> well”. > > There are other alternatives to bromelain and to the best of my knowledge,> arnica increases healing but not necessarily systemic inflammation and I> have been told, but don’t know if it’s true, that arnica is not intended for> long term usage. Another product made for inflammation is one that includes> skullcap root, bee propolis, turmeric root and gramminex G60. For me, this> works much better and doesn’t cause any gut problems whatsoever.> > Kenda> > > Kenda, > > > > We can speculate what made Kim throw up but if you have any knowledge of> > Vicodin than you als o know

that in some people it results in severe vomiting,> > not just stomach irritation. To say it was the bromelain is a guess on> > anyone's part... the only way to know is to take the items separately and see> > what the problem was....> > > > When we have these major breast operations it is wise to reduce as much> > inflammation as possible naturally via bromelain or arnica montana. The bottom> > line is that Kim should consult with her doctor for SOUND medical advise.. as> > we are only offering opinions here.> > > > Dawn > > > > Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:> >> I think it is the bromelain that upset your stomach, if you tolerate pain> >> meds well. It is very acidic and can be upsetting to the gut.> >> > >> Kenda> >> > >> >

>>> Yes, Kenda.. I agree.. that is totally correct. The instructions I was given> >>> was to take bromelain on empty stomach.... and yes, vicodin definitely with> >>> food. > >>> > >>> Dawn > >>> > >>> Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:> >>>> Did you take the bromelain on an empty or full stomach? Taken on an empty> >>>> stomach, bromelain acts as an anti-inflammatory. Taken on a full stomach,> >>>> it acts as a digestive enzyme. I’d definitely take the vicodin with food.> >>>> Synthroid is best on an empty stomach because it is better absorbed. I> >>>> don’t know anything at all about cytomel.> >>>> > >>>> Kenda> >>>> > >>>> >

>>>>> I forgot to mention I also took my first day of bromelain (vita> >>>>> medica). Has anyone ever thrown up from this. I think maybe that> >>>>> combined with the vicodin ect.. caused me to get sick. I called the> >>>>> company, they talked to a doctor and advised me it would be o.k. to> >>>>> take some tonight. Any thoughts on this. I'm afraid to try it again. I> >>>>> also took my synthroid and cytomel to. Maybe not so smart. I'm afraid> >>>>> to try it again. I am just finally holding food down! Thanks. Kim> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by> >>>>> licensed health care professio nals.

Consult your physician or licensed> >>>>> health care professional before commencing any medical treatment.> >>>>> > >>>>> "Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.> >>>>> Find o ut wh at the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to> >>>>> live a happy life and how to work for a better world." - Linus ing,> >>>>> two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)> >>>>> > >>>>>

June 16, 2005

Dawn,

I answered the question at hand regarding nausea and vomiting with regard to Vicodin and Bromelain usage. I wasn’t answering anything with regard to pre-explant or post-explant. I don’t feel qualified to respond to either question, having never been there myself or having done much research on either. You wrote to very specific points which were never brought up in the original poster’s question. Nothing is ever a fact with regard to medicine, for all all people. There are many variables, which is what I was trying to point out. Some folks react poorly to Bromelain, that is a fact, I am one of them but that doesn’t mean that you or anyone else will react to it. Furthermore, it doesn’t make Bromelain a bad supplement.

With regard to inflammation, I do not have fibro, I have an inflammatory body that predisposes me to inflammatory conditions — a huge reason implants would have been disastrous for me. If I keep the inflammation down, I am healthy and have no problems. If someone is like me, simply detoxing will never be enough to feel well after explant. For me, feeling well is a life-long commitment to supplements, exercise and a clean lifestyle. I know my body is different but there are other women out there like me who don’t get well as easily as others.

Yes, I have taken Vicodin, it makes me itch, as do most painkillers.

Kenda

Kenda,

You always offer some very great information and are a valuable asset to the group for your knowledge. Some of the things stated as fact are infact not always fact, that is why we seek out non conventional medicine.

I think the misunderstanding lies in the fact that my replies referred to POST operative and PRE operative surgery. I never mentioned that Arnica was to be used for long term inflammation. I don't have a clue, I have never used it for fibromyalgia. I don't know what cases you refer to that quick healing is not good.. and that wasn't the issue I spoke of. I was talking about breast surgery, specifically implant or explant, nothing else. In the case of breast surgery, THE FACT is that QUICK healing is indicated, FACT.

Whether a person is more inflamed than another is not what I was referring to. When breasts are augmented or explanted there is alot of inflammation and that is why drains are used.

By the way, have you ever used Vicodin?

Dawn

Kenda Skaggs & lt;kdskaggs@... & gt; wrote:

Dawn,

I’m really at a loss as to what we are disagreeing about. I simply suggested that bromelain could be the cause of upset stomach — that’s a fact. I prefaced my statement regarding upset stomach with the question as to whether Vicadin use had been well tolerated in the past. Arnica Montana is used for short term use and is an excellent product. Some people, myself included, use anti-inflammatory products long term, probably for life, because I/we have inflammatory bodies. Arnica is not indicated for this type of treatment. Some people don’t rid themselves of toxins as easily as others and may need a product designed for long term usage. This doesn’t mean that Arnica is not a bad product, it is a different product intended for a different use.

Kenda

Kenda,

I never implied you were a professional because if you were you would not be offering medical advise on this board. Let's just agree to disagree. Should anyone want to try any supplements they will hopefully do their own research and take all opinions into consideration. I didn't mention anything about long term useage of Arnica Montana because I was referring to pre and post operative period. It is my hope that none of these women, as I, will not ever need to use these items long term because they are ridding themselves of the SOURCE of their condition, AS I DID.

With any herbal remedy we should heed caution, that's a given. Herbs can be unsafe if taken too much, too often, etc. In my opinion, Arnica is and has been an excellent remedy for MY muscle pain from working out or injuries. It comes in tablets that you dissolve under the tongue and in gel form. I haven't us ed it for months and months... I just don't want Arnica to get a bad rap here because it is a very valuable herb to some of us.

Dawn

Kenda Skaggs & lt;kdskaggs@... & gt; wrote:

Hi Dawn,

I don’t claim to be a professional and was never consulted as such. An email was posted and “our” opinions were asked. I gave mine. Obviously not in a professional manner.

Arnica is great for pre and post surgery and sports related injuries but it may not be great for long term usage. Additionally, in some instances, a person wouldn’t want to use arnica at all because it can speed up healing which may be contraindicated.

Kenda

Hi Kenda,

But, we are speaking of people who are going to go through a major

operation.. some of those herbs you mentioned may not be safe to

take pre or post operatively. The bottom line is that rather than

taking the advise of laymen it is better for someone who is going to

go through a major traumatic operation to consult their plastic

surgeon who is the EXPERT in these situations.

It would be unwise to go with the opinions of others without

consulting the ps.

And Arnica Montana is an excellent pain medication/anti

inflammatory. Infact I have, as I am sure many others have also,

used it for sports related injuries with much success. Arnica is

frequently prescribed post operatively for two weeks and pre op for

two weeks... not always.. most cases involving a physician who is

knowledgeable as to it's effects. I am not aware of how lo ng you can

take arnica...

Dawn

-- In , Kenda Skaggs <kdskaggs@c...>

wrote:

> Hi Dawn,

>

> Of course. That’s why I put in my previous email “if you tolerate

pain meds

> well”.

>

> There are other alternatives to bromelain and to the best of my

knowledge,

> arnica increases healing but not necessarily systemic inflammation

and I

> have been told, but don’t know if it’s true, that arnica is not

intended for

> long term usage. Another product made for inflammation is one

that includes

> skullcap root, bee propolis, turmeric root and gramminex G60. For

me, this

> works much better and doesn’t cause any gut problems whatsoever.

>

> Kenda

>

> > Kenda,

> >

> > We can speculate what made Kim throw up but if you have any

knowledge of

> > Vicodin than you als o know that in some people it results in

severe vomiting,

> > not just stomach irritation. To say it was the bromelain is a

guess on

> > anyone's part... the only way to know is to take the items

separately and see

> > what the problem was....

> >

> > When we have these major breast operations it is wise to reduce

as much

> > inflammation as possible naturally via bromelain or arnica

montana. The bottom

> > line is that Kim should consult with her doctor for SOUND

medical advise.. as

> > we are only offering opinions here.

> >

> > Dawn

> >

> > Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:

> >> I think it is the bromelain that upset your stomach, if you

tolerate pain

> >> meds well. It is very acidic and can be upsetting to the gut.

> >>

> >> Kenda

> >>

> >>> Yes, Kenda.. I agree.. that is totally correct. The

instructions I was given

> >>> was to take bromelain on empty stomach.... and yes, vicodin

definitely with

> >>> food.

> >>>

> >>> Dawn

> >>>

> >>> Kenda Skaggs kdskaggs@c... wrote:

> >>>> Did you take the bromelain on an empty or full stomach?

Taken on an empty

> >>>> stomach, bromelain acts as an anti-inflammatory. Taken on a

full stomach,

> >>>> it acts as a digestive enzyme. I’d definitely take the

vicodin with food.

> >>>> Synthroid is best on an empty stomach because it is better

absorbed. I

> >>>> don’t know anything at all about cytomel.

> >>>>

> >>>> Kenda

> >>>>

> >>>>> I forgot to mention I also took my first day of bromelain

(vita

> >>>>> medica). Has anyone ever thrown up from this. I think maybe

that

> >>>>> combined with the vicodin ect.. caused me to get sick. I

called the

> >>>>> company, they talked to a doctor and advised me it would be

o.k. to

> >>>>> take some tonight. Any thoughts on this. I'm afraid to try

it again. I

> >>>>> also took my synthroid and cytomel to. Maybe not so smart.

I'm afraid

> >>>>> to try it again. I am just finally holding food down!

Thanks. Kim

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

given by

> >>>>> licensed health care professio nals. Consult your physician

or licensed

> >>>>> health care professional before commencing any medical

treatment.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the

politicians mislead you.

> >>>>> Find o ut wh at the facts are, and make your own decisions

about how to

> >>>>> live a happy life and how to work for a better world. " -

Linus ing,

> >>>>> two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> >>>>>

June 16, 2005

Kenda,

Just to clarify, I was responding not only to the original poster, but also to Kathy's email that stated Kim should not be taking Bromelain prior to surgery. My mistake, I should have made it more clear for you.

Interesting, Vicodin makes me itch too!

Kenda Skaggs & lt;kdskaggs@... & gt; wrote: Dawn,I answered the question at hand regarding nausea and vomiting with regard to Vicodin and Bromelain usage. I wasn’t answering anything with regard to pre-explant or post-explant. I don’t feel qualified to respond to either question, having never been there myself or having done much research on either. You wrote to very specific points which were never brought up in the original poster’s question. Nothing is ever a fact with regard to medicine, for all all people. There are many variables, which is what I was trying to point out. Some folks react poorly to Bromelain, that is a fact, I am one of them but that doesn’t mean that you or anyone else will react to it. Furthermore, it doesn’t make Bromelain a bad supplement.With regard to inflammation, I do not have fibro, I

have an inflammatory body that predisposes me to inflammatory conditions — a huge reason implants would have been disastrous for me. If I keep the inflammation down, I am healthy and have no problems. If someone is like me, simply detoxing will never be enough to feel well after explant. For me, feeling well is a life-long commitment to supplements, exercise and a clean lifestyle. I know my body is different but there are other women out there like me who don’t get well as easily as others. Yes, I have taken Vicodin, it makes me itch, as do most painkillers.Kenda

Kenda, You always offer some very great information and are a valuable asset to the group for your knowledge. Some of the things stated as fact are infact not always fact, that is why we seek out non conventional medicine. I think the misunderstanding lies in the fact that my replies referred to POST operative and PRE operative surgery. I never mentioned that Arnica was to be used for long term inflammation. I don't have a clue, I have never used it for fibromyalgia. I don't know what cases you refer to that quick healing is not good.. and that wasn't the issue I spoke of. I was talking about breast surgery, specifically implant or explant, nothing else. In the case of breast surgery, THE FACT is that QUICK healing is indicated, FACT. Whether a person is more inflamed than another is not what I was referring to. When breasts are augmented or explanted there is

alot of inflammation and that is why drains are used. By the way, have you ever used Vicodin? Dawn Kenda Skaggs & lt;kdskaggs@... & gt; wrote:

Dawn,I’m really at a loss as to what we are disagreeing about. I simply suggested that bromelain could be the cause of upset stomach — that’s a fact. I prefaced my statement regarding upset stomach with the question as to whether Vicadin use had been well tolerated in the past. Arnica Montana is used for short term use and is an excellent product. Some people, myself included, use anti-inflammatory products long term, probably for life, because I/we have inflammatory bodies. Arnica is not indicated for this type of treatment. Some people don’t rid themselves of toxins as easily as others and may need a product designed for long term usage. This doesn’t mean that Arnica is not a bad product, it is a different product intended for a different use.Kenda

Kenda, I never implied you were a professional because if you were you would not be offering medical advise on this board. Let's just agree to disagree. Should anyone want to try any supplements they will hopefully do their own research and take all opinions into consideration. I didn't mention anything about long term useage of Arnica Montana because I was referring to pre and post operative period. It is my hope that none of these women, as I, will not ever need to use these items long term because they are ridding themselves of the SOURCE of their condition, AS I DID. With any herbal remedy we should heed caution, that's a given. Herbs can be unsafe if taken too much, too often, etc. In my opinion, Arnica is and has been an excellent remedy for MY muscle pain from working out or injuries. It comes in tablets that you dissolve under the tongue and in gel form. I haven't us ed it