Re: Question about typical thinking and hurt feelings

April 9, 2010

Hi Becca,

I agree with , you hit the spot there like an arrow. My thought processes

aren't quite as robotic as your example but it describes the process exactly.

As to the way to respond, the key phrase seems to be " try to stay focused on

their feelings for the moment " . As you rightly say, the sense of

frustration/anger/emotional-vertigo is the enemy.

Looking back on myself after an incident like this I remind myself of Bart in

the Simpsons episode where Lucy does a science project " Why My Pet Rat Is More

Intelligent Than My Brother " . For those of you who haven't seen this, Lucy wires

a cup-cade to the electricity mains. The rat takes one bite and learns his

lesson. Bart however is overwhelmed by the cup-cake and gets shocked again, and

again, and again....

Tony

>

> awesome post, thanks so much.

>

> Â

>

> ________________________________

> Â

>

> > How do NT's cope?

> >........... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ........

> Oh Boy!

> These are the everyday frustrations

> I think we can all relate to.

> The following is what someone wrote on another

> AS/NT partner website:

>

> It is important to own your feelings but expecting him to understand them is

expecting too much of him. What I mean is, when you say to someone " my foot got

stepped on, I feel hurt " - the expectation is that the person will say " oh my

goodness, your poor foot! Are you okay? "

>

> What we need to accept is that the Aspie reasoning behind the event of hurting

you may be very different. You can say " You stepped on my foot, it hurt me! " and

they might say " I did not step on your foot. I merely shifted the position of my

own foot, because I was uncomfortable " .

>

> At this point you might point to your foot, and make them look. Indeed, there

is his big foot, mashing yours into the ground. But instead of saying " oh no!

your poor foot! you must be in pain! I didn't realize I was stepping on it " , he

might say: " You have revealed to me that I am stepping on your foot. This is not

a good thing, to step on someone's foot. It makes me out to be the bad guy. I

now have to face that you are making me out to be the bad guy. I am not

comfortable with this assessment, because I am NOT a bad guy. How do you think

it makes me feel to be seen as the bad guy? Do you even think of me at ALL??? "

>

> I think this is a fine example of when some AS say they are

> overwhelmed with emotions rather than void of them.

> In this instance the AS person suddenly feels threatened

> and becomes consumed with how they feel

> in the situation. If the AS would want a better outcome

> then they would need to fight the temptation to tunnel vision

> on their own perspective, try to realize it is not a personal

> attack in any way, just like stepping on the other person's

> foot was not intentional.

>

> When another's feelings are involved try to stay focused on their feelings for

the moment. Address the situation, get off their foot,

> apologize, ask if they are OK. Once you have resolved their hurt

> feelings you have opened the door for the other person to be

> receptive to what you were feeling. Now you have bonded instead of

> alienated.

> That is how the NT copes.

>

> I hope this helps. Enjoy your weekend!

>

> ~ K D

>

April 9, 2010

Hi Tony

thanks for the laugh ....poor Bart LOL

on a more serious note, I had a personal victory yesterday. We got a notice saying that we owed money for our TV satellite , quite a bit of money and they were going to cut off our service. So I called them and it turns out that my AS hubby was supposed to return our old receiver and apparently had received many notices about it. So $450 of the $500 overdue bill was the the receiver not being returned. My usual reaction would of been to yell at hubby and ask how he could be so stupid .....but this time I realized that this is part of AS for him.....he means to get things done but somehow things never do get done. So I explained to hubby simply what was happening and when he came home from work , he packaged up the receiver and its in the mail today. I found I had no anger this time, just an understanding of why these things happen.

<<Looking back on myself after an incident like this I remind myself of Bart in the Simpsons episode where Lucy does a science project "Why <My Pet Rat Is More Intelligent Than My Brother". For those of you who haven't seen this, Lucy wires a cup-cade to the electricity mains. <The rat takes one bite and learns his lesson. Bart however is overwhelmed by the cup-cake and gets shocked again, and again, and again....Tony>> awesome post, thanks so much.> > > Ã‚ > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Ã‚ > > > > How do NT's cope?> >........... ......... .........

.......... ......... ......... ........ > Oh Boy!> These are the everyday frustrations> I think we can all relate to.> The following is what someone wrote on another> AS/NT partner website:> > It is important to own your feelings but expecting him to understand them is expecting too much of him. What I mean is, when you say to someone "my foot got stepped on, I feel hurt" - the expectation is that the person will say "oh my goodness, your poor foot! Are you okay?"> > What we need to accept is that the Aspie reasoning behind the event of hurting you may be very different. You can say "You stepped on my foot, it hurt me!" and they might say "I did not step on your foot. I merely shifted the position of my own foot, because I was uncomfortable" . > > At this point you might point to your foot, and make them look. Indeed, there is his big foot, mashing yours into the ground. But

instead of saying "oh no! your poor foot! you must be in pain! I didn't realize I was stepping on it", he might say: "You have revealed to me that I am stepping on your foot. This is not a good thing, to step on someone's foot. It makes me out to be the bad guy. I now have to face that you are making me out to be the bad guy. I am not comfortable with this assessment, because I am NOT a bad guy. How do you think it makes me feel to be seen as the bad guy? Do you even think of me at ALL???"> > I think this is a fine example of when some AS say they are> overwhelmed with emotions rather than void of them.> In this instance the AS person suddenly feels threatened> and becomes consumed with how they feel> in the situation. If the AS would want a better outcome> then they would need to fight the temptation to tunnel vision> on their own perspective, try to realize it is not a personal> attack in

any way, just like stepping on the other person's > foot was not intentional.> > When another's feelings are involved try to stay focused on their feelings for the moment. Address the situation, get off their foot,> apologize, ask if they are OK. Once you have resolved their hurt> feelings you have opened the door for the other person to be> receptive to what you were feeling. Now you have bonded instead of> alienated.> That is how the NT copes.> > I hope this helps. Enjoy your weekend!> > ~ K D>

April 9, 2010

Thank you for respecting your husband and not yelling at him, . Perhaps

you both can have a conversation about why it cost so much money, and have some

sort of " system " set up so those kind of fees can be avoided ever again.

> >

> > awesome post, thanks so much.

> >

> > Ã‚Â

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Ã‚Â

> >

> > > How do NT's cope?

> > >........... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ........

> > Oh Boy!

> > These are the everyday frustrations

> > I think we can all relate to.

> > The following is what someone wrote on another

> > AS/NT partner website:

> >

> > It is important to own your feelings but expecting him to understand them is

expecting too much of him. What I mean is, when you say to someone " my foot got

stepped on, I feel hurt " - the expectation is that the person will say " oh my

goodness, your poor foot! Are you okay? "

> >

> > What we need to accept is that the Aspie reasoning behind the event of

hurting you may be very different. You can say " You stepped on my foot, it hurt

me! " and they might say " I did not step on your foot. I merely shifted the

position of my own foot, because I was uncomfortable " .

> >

> > At this point you might point to your foot, and make them look. Indeed,

there is his big foot, mashing yours into the ground. But instead of saying " oh

no! your poor foot! you must be in pain! I didn't realize I was stepping on it " ,

he might say: " You have revealed to me that I am stepping on your foot. This is

not a good thing, to step on someone's foot. It makes me out to be the bad guy.

I now have to face that you are making me out to be the bad guy. I am not

comfortable with this assessment, because I am NOT a bad guy. How do you think

it makes me feel to be seen as the bad guy? Do you even think of me at ALL??? "

> >

> > I think this is a fine example of when some AS say they are

> > overwhelmed with emotions rather than void of them.

> > In this instance the AS person suddenly feels threatened

> > and becomes consumed with how they feel

> > in the situation. If the AS would want a better outcome

> > then they would need to fight the temptation to tunnel vision

> > on their own perspective, try to realize it is not a personal

> > attack in any way, just like stepping on the other person's

> > foot was not intentional.

> >

> > When another's feelings are involved try to stay focused on their feelings

for the moment. Address the situation, get off their foot,

> > apologize, ask if they are OK. Once you have resolved their hurt

> > feelings you have opened the door for the other person to be

> > receptive to what you were feeling. Now you have bonded instead of

> > alienated.

> > That is how the NT copes.

> >

> > I hope this helps. Enjoy your weekend!

> >

> > ~ K D

> >

>

April 9, 2010

yes, we have done that , thanks .

please remember that its only been a few months since hubby got his dx and so its one baby step at a time for both of us I think. I need to learn different ways of coping and communicating and I need to develop more compassion and understanding as well.

Lowry

www.brendaandwaynefamilypetservices.com

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To: aspires-relationships Sent: Fri, April 9, 2010 2:33:20 PMSubject: Re: Question about typical thinking and hurt feelings

Thank you for respecting your husband and not yelling at him, . Perhaps you both can have a conversation about why it cost so much money, and have some sort of "system" set up so those kind of fees can be avoided ever again.> >> > awesome post, thanks so much.> > > > > > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ > > > > > > > How do NT's cope?> > >........... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ........ > > Oh Boy!> > These are the everyday frustrations> > I think we can all relate to.> > The following is what someone wrote on another> > AS/NT partner website:> > > > It is important to own your feelings but expecting him to understand them is expecting too much of him. What I mean is, when you say to someone "my foot got stepped on, I feel hurt" -

the expectation is that the person will say "oh my goodness, your poor foot! Are you okay?"> > > > What we need to accept is that the Aspie reasoning behind the event of hurting you may be very different. You can say "You stepped on my foot, it hurt me!" and they might say "I did not step on your foot. I merely shifted the position of my own foot, because I was uncomfortable" . > > > > At this point you might point to your foot, and make them look. Indeed, there is his big foot, mashing yours into the ground. But instead of saying "oh no! your poor foot! you must be in pain! I didn't realize I was stepping on it", he might say: "You have revealed to me that I am stepping on your foot. This is not a good thing, to step on someone's foot. It makes me out to be the bad guy. I now have to face that you are making me out to be the bad guy. I am not comfortable with this assessment, because I am NOT a bad guy. How do

you think it makes me feel to be seen as the bad guy? Do you even think of me at ALL???"> > > > I think this is a fine example of when some AS say they are> > overwhelmed with emotions rather than void of them.> > In this instance the AS person suddenly feels threatened> > and becomes consumed with how they feel> > in the situation. If the AS would want a better outcome> > then they would need to fight the temptation to tunnel vision> > on their own perspective, try to realize it is not a personal> > attack in any way, just like stepping on the other person's > > foot was not intentional.> > > > When another's feelings are involved try to stay focused on their feelings for the moment. Address the situation, get off their foot,> > apologize, ask if they are OK. Once you have resolved their hurt> > feelings you have

opened the door for the other person to be> > receptive to what you were feeling. Now you have bonded instead of> > alienated.> > That is how the NT copes.> > > > I hope this helps. Enjoy your weekend!> > > > ~ K D> >>

April 10, 2010

Hi Tony

I'm also really new here. This is my first post

I have been involved for the last 8 years with a man with AS. Your situation

sounds very familiar. In my opinion, a certain amount of emotional maturity is

necessary on the part of the NT partner. I learned this the hard way!

From my experience, my husband will not coddle me, or handle me with kid gloves.

If I do get an apology out of him, then it is my responsibility to let go the

hurt feelings and move on. Expecting NT kind of emotional support/comforting

from my husband is pointless. His strengths lie elsewhere. The sooner I can put

my hurt feelings down, the sooner we can get to the point where we are close

again, and I can start to feel better.

It is always useful to be able to take a step away from any emotional reaction,

and merely observe. This is a great tool in any interaction. An NT in a

relationship with an AS person needs as many tools as they can get, and only

they can acquire them. Expecting your significant other to fill the gap will

just end in disappointment on both sides.

What is essential, however, is that the relationship is based on mutual love and

respect. The only way that I can cope with my husbands AS is because I

experience his love for me in other ways, every single day.

>

> I'm REALLY new here, but I was struck by Tony's comment:

> My problem as an AS has always been the bit that comes after:

>

> I do something that hurts unintentionally

> - This provokes a hurt response

> - I apologise

> - The apology is not " genuine " enough apparently

> - I start to get frustrated/angry, after all I did apologise

> ... which is " proof " the apology wasn't genuine

> etc. etc.

>

> It's the more complex situations like this where I lose my way.

> How do NT's cope?

>

> Tony

>

> I wanted to make two points:

> 1) It's not always enough that you didn't intentionally mean to hurt

> someone. What's important is that you put reasonable effort into NOT

> hurting them. Where it gets tricky is that people with AS and NT's can

> respond very differently, so one partner thinks the other person SHOULD

> have known that their comment or action would be hurtful. The person

> who was hurt then thinks the other person was negligent at best, and

> intentionally hurtful at worst. When in fact, the " offender " may be

> working really hard at trying to understand the other person's point of

> view, but they still don't understand why the other person is upset.

> So the misunderstanding is not just about the original comment, but also

> the overall attitudes, of both parties, about the relationship. This

> leads into point two:

> 2) I suspect what people mean when they think an apology isn't

> " genuine " is that the (unintentional) " offender " doesn't seem to

> understand why their action/words were hurtful, and doesn't seem

> interested in trying to understand, or doesn't think it's important. In

> either case there is little reason to believe they won't keep on doing

> it. Saying the words " I'm sorry " is pretty empty if it doesn't result

> in a change in behavior.

> I think the suggestions of what to say have been really good. The

> important thing is to let each other know that you're listening, you're

> trying, and you care about how the other person feels.

> Sorry to be so long-winded, maybe this comment adds something to the

> discussionBecca

>

April 10, 2010

KD,

Bingo!

Your insight about what happens in the AS mind would have been immensely helpful

to me 20 years ago! As you said, it goes something like this:

" This is not a good thing, to step on someone's foot. It makes me out to be the

bad guy. I now have to face that you are making me out to be the bad guy. I am

not comfortable with this assessment, because I am NOT a bad guy. How do you

think it makes me feel to be seen as the bad guy? Do you even think of me at

ALL??? "

It seems in looking back over the last two decades, each and every time I

expressed " I have been hurt...disappointed...let down...left in the lurch...left

with more than my share of the workload...etc. " my spouse (whom I am convinced

is AS) responded " I'm a terrible person " , thus ending any conversation about

what had happened and how it could be avoided going forward. We remained stuck.

No resolution, no healing, no adjustments, no understanding.

Thanks for the light bulb moment.

Tara

> >

> > I'm REALLY new here, but I was struck by Tony's comment:

> > My problem as an AS has always been the bit that comes after:

> >

> > I do something that hurts unintentionally

> > - This provokes a hurt response

> > - I apologize

> > - The apology is not " genuine " enough apparently

> > - I start to get frustrated/angry, after all I did apologize

> > ... which is " proof " the apology wasn't genuine

> > etc. etc.

> >

> > It's the more complex situations like this where I lose my way.

> > How do NT's cope?

> >................................................................