YES!!!! ALL HORMONES ARE LIPOPHILIC !!!!

[Guest guest]

Outstanding claritive post, Laurel!!

Thank you so much for that correction!! Truth of info

is very much appreaciated!! That is what we try to

reveal on this site!! (For what its' worth

department...I had just called Belmar Pharmacy, spoke

to head pharmacist Hakala, who stated that

yes, ALL hormones are lipophilic, the smalle varying

degrees to which are insignificant in variances.

Glad THAT one's put to bed!!

The MISinformation, by the way, came through an

internet blurb on the Dr. Gillespie website, wherein

she stated that E was not, hence the supposed need for

hydra-gel, et.al. Never ceases to amaze me how doctors

can disagree, or be so " off " , on what one would

presuppose as being universally true ..

- " eh, did all you docs study the same body, folks??? "

Also absolutely to affirm your statement...and to

quote, in support, from Vliet...

ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL with regards to hormonal

regimens, indeed, with ALL drugs or even absorption of

supplements. Yes. Yes. Yes.

So...in my previous post titled " Halloween Hormones "

....there is quite a selection out there from which to

choose, for customized, individualized BHRT!!!

--- Laurel wrote:

>

> Carolyn wrote:

> But since the estradiol hormone is not a fat based

> hormone...(until I can find some quote to explain

> the

> dynamics of it all)....a non-fat delivery of E would

> be best.

> ____________________________________

> Dr. Formby specifically told me estradiol is

> lipophilic, just not *as*

> lipophilic as progesterone. When I google estradiol

> and lipophic I find

> lots of references that say the steroid hormones are

> lipophilic.

>

> Some women do not absorb well with oil or creams and

> some do. Women are

> very different. The biggest mistake we can make is

> to assume that

> absorption is the same for every woman.

>

> Laurel

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

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[Guest guest]

Val...Just had spoken to Belmar, and their cream is

composed of both oil and water, and it is their gel

that contains alcohol to assist absorption. But this

phonecall was before this post from you, so I would

have to call them back to see per the addition of

alcohol to a cream base....

....while we are on topic, the younger pharmacist

informed me as per following:

They do not highly recommend ANY of the E-creams as

much as they do some of the other delivery forms; by

the way, she noted, the creams have been in use in

Europe for a while. Nothing new there.

She also explained why their pharmacy does not rate

the creams as high as some other methods, in that " the

creams make use of the 'LIPID BIOLAYER' beneath the

skin, the purpose being to attempt to achieve a SLOW

AND EVEN RELEASE... "

(which, by the way, ladies, is a perfect description

of the pulsatile endogenous delivery as designed by

Mother Nature, and which we are still trying to mimick

as best as possible and which is driving us all

friggin' crazy!! - but I digress...)

.... " however, concerns regarding the predictability of

cream delivery can be explained by the fact that often

the cream will get 'stuck' in that 'lipid biolayer'

(our fat), and not be released in a reliable fashion.

Adding to that is the fact that all women's skin

absorption abilities or rates may differ, and also,

each woman may absorb or retain the cream in that

'sub-skin'layer of fat. And no studies have been

conducted on those variences of Ecream absorption

differences. " End of quote from pharmacist.

So again...the hormonal creams seem to be proving out

as not being the most consistent or reliable, or that

using the fat layer is not the most consistent and

even in absorption or delivery. Contrary to what would

have been supposed, using the fat as a dependable

delivery system appears to have its glitches.

Or, to put it another way..Creams may not be the

best most reliable choice for a UPS Estradiol

r....

not the brown truck...

but as an " UnderPolydermisSubstrate " of choice!!

At least for all over systemic HRT security!!

Unless we get tons of it!!

Carolyn

--- Valarie wrote:

> I'm talking in the dark here so please excuse. I

> think the issue is the

> size of the E molecule. Supposedly, it is better

> absorbed through an

> alcohol base rather than an oil base. As far as I

> know, it is not a

> question of lipophilic or non-lipophilic. I use E

> cream on my face and

> hands and it does make a difference in the

> appearance.

>

> Val

>

> -----Original Message-----

>

>

> > Carolyn wrote:

> > But since the estradiol hormone is not a fat

> based

> > hormone...(until I can find some quote to

> explain

> > the

> > dynamics of it all)....a non-fat delivery of E

> would

> > be best.

> > ____________________________________

> > Dr. Formby specifically told me estradiol is

> > lipophilic, just not *as*

> > lipophilic as progesterone. When I google

> estradiol

> > and lipophic I find

> > lots of references that say the steroid hormones

> are

> > lipophilic.

> >

> > Some women do not absorb well with oil or creams

> and

> > some do. Women are

> > very different. The biggest mistake we can make

> is

> > to assume that

> > absorption is the same for every woman.

> >

> > Laurel

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________

> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

> http://mail.yahoo.com

>

>

> click here for our webpage

> http://rhythmicliving.com/

>

> **The group conversation is informational in

> nature and is not intended as

> medical advice.**

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well how the hell are we supposed to know what size molecule they use?

I called and asked, LOL ))

[Guest guest]

- , do you know what the WIP olive-oil mixed E-molecules is ?

- Val, do you think the E-cream on your face does not give your body too much E? I'd like to use the olive-oil Eoo on my face...I've decided not to go down-face at the chiropractor anymore, like I used to once a week, - because it takes too much of a toll on my face (deepens wrinkles for several days afterwards, connective tissue weakening, alas! ...)

Charlotte

Re: YES!!!! ALL HORMONES ARE LIPOPHILIC !!!!

think the issue is the size of the E molecule. Supposedly, it is better absorbed through an alcohol base rather than an oil base. As far as I know, it is not a question of lipophilic or non-lipophilic. I use E cream on my face and hands and it does make a difference in the appearance.

Val

Val, you are partial right, if the pharmacy gets larger than 200microns E it will not absorb..

WIP last time I cked was 7-47...so the smaller the better:)). IF the E is large, THEN it must be dissolved in alcohol ) otherwise just the dust of the right size E will go into your skin.

The male pharmacist I talk with, do DIM so as not to keep extra E and are careful to wear longsleves, masks, gloves, ect to keep E off of them .....

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.3/141 - Release Date: 10/18/2005

[Guest guest]

I don't think the estriol cream on my face goes systemically at all. Here's a study about it. Some of you seem to be getting E from the olive oil so I wouldn't want to use that on my face (unless I wanted more E)

Arch Gynecol Obstet. 1993;253(2):71-4.

When applied to facial skin, does estrogen ointment have systemic effects?Kainz C, Gitsch G, Stani J, Breitenecker G, Binder M, Schmidt JB.2nd Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics, University of Vienna, School of Medicine, Austria.We examined cytological vaginal smears of 17 women before and after three months of dermal estrogen (1 g of 0.01% estradiol ointment or 0.3% estriol ointment once daily), applied to the face for dermatological indications. The mean age was 57.1 +/- 7.6 years (range from 46 to 66). Seven women had estrogenic smears (more than 10% superficial cells) before therapy. Nine women were treated with 0.01% estradiol ointment and 8 were treated with 0.3% estriol ointment. Both groups had gynecological examinations including cervical and vaginal smears before and after treatment and also monthly measurements of serum follicle-stimulating hormone, prolactin and estradiol levels. Serum hormone levels and the appearance of vaginal smears showed no significant change during treatment.Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of Mcharlot

Val, do you think the E-cream on your face does not give your body too much E? I'd like to use the olive-oil Eoo on my face...I've decided not to go down-face at the chiropractor anymore, like I used to once a week, - because it takes too much of a toll on my face (deepens wrinkles for several days afterwards, connective tissue weakening, alas! ...)

[Guest guest]

FASCINATING INFO!! Thanks!! I continue to be amazed

at how it is the pharmacists who evidence a greater

knowlege of this stuff than any doctor!

Which is maybe why they are starting to try to edge in

on the doctor's legal territory and both assess and

prescribe for the patient (with the doctor " signing

off on what the pharmacist " prescribes " to make it

" legal " , and to start charging an hourly fee for

consulting.

(Refer to Vliet MD book " The Savvy Woman... " p 278

with an excellently written observation on this new

" practice " of some compounding pharmacies.)

I was stunned to first run into this myself with a

local compounder that I was going to try, rather than

continue with my many years using mail-order-pharms,

This local compounding pharmacist in Minneapolis

markets and advertises himself, with much hoo-ra-ra

and chest-out-preening, on his website. When I first

phoned him to ask a few questions as to what he did,

he shortly became quite abrupt and switched me over to

the receptionist to make an initial consult

appointment - to the tune of $150 hour.

Not. Carolyn

--- Nuimom@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 10/20/2005 12:49:15 PM Pacific

> Standard Time,

> val@... writes:

>

> think the issue is the size of the E molecule.

> Supposedly, it is better

> absorbed through an alcohol base rather than an oil

> base. As far as I know, it

> is not a question of lipophilic or non-lipophilic.

> I use E cream on my face

> and hands and it does make a difference in the

> appearance.

>

> Val

>

>

> Val, you are partial right, if the pharmacy gets

> larger than 200microns E

> it will not absorb..

> WIP last time I cked was 7-47...so the smaller the

> better:)). IF the E is

> large, THEN it must be dissolved in alcohol )

> otherwise just the dust of the

> right size E will go into your skin.

> The male pharmacist I talk with, do DIM so as not to

> keep extra E and are

> careful to wear longsleves, masks, gloves, ect to

> keep E off of them .....

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

http://farechase.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

Val....this reminds me a a story in the Town and

Country magazine quite a few years ago, on a woman who

had her doctor Rx an estradiol face cream eons

ago...worked very very well!! The behemouth cosmetic

companies would dearly love to do so, but passing the

FDA scrutiny is offputting!

Hail to " under-the-radar " freedom of the compounding

magicians, eh?? :)Carolyn

--- Valarie wrote:

> I don't think the estriol cream on my face goes

> systemically at all. Here's

> a study about it. Some of you seem to be getting E

> from the olive oil so I

> wouldn't want to use that on my face (unless I

> wanted more E)

>

> Arch Gynecol Obstet. 1993;253(2):71-4.

>

>

>

> When applied to facial skin, does estrogen ointment

> have systemic effects?

>

> Kainz C, Gitsch G, Stani J, Breitenecker G, Binder

> M, Schmidt JB.

>

> 2nd Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics,

> University of Vienna, School of

> Medicine, Austria.

>

> We examined cytological vaginal smears of 17 women

> before and after three

> months of dermal estrogen (1 g of 0.01% estradiol

> ointment or 0.3% estriol

> ointment once daily), applied to the face for

> dermatological indications.

> The mean age was 57.1 +/- 7.6 years (range from 46

> to 66). Seven women had

> estrogenic smears (more than 10% superficial cells)

> before therapy. Nine

> women were treated with 0.01% estradiol ointment and

> 8 were treated with

> 0.3% estriol ointment. Both groups had gynecological

> examinations including

> cervical and vaginal smears before and after

> treatment and also monthly

> measurements of serum follicle-stimulating hormone,

> prolactin and estradiol

> levels. Serum hormone levels and the appearance of

> vaginal smears showed no

> significant change during treatment.

>

> Val

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving

> [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

> Mcharlot

>

>

> Val, do you think the E-cream on your face does

> not give your body too

> much E? I'd like to use the olive-oil Eoo on my

> face...I've decided not to

> go down-face at the chiropractor anymore, like I

> used to once a week, -

> because it takes too much of a toll on my face

> (deepens wrinkles for several

> days afterwards, connective tissue weakening, alas!

> ...)

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

http://farechase.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for the info Val, - did the study say anything about the facial skin improvement ?

FYI, I'm diluting the 1mg E-olive oil oo twice with emu oil, and that is absorbed into the skin the deepest of any oil or cream, leaving no surface oiliness. But I'll dilute it once more to get it down to 0.125 mg per drop for the face.

Also, there is an Eterna Night cream that has Pregnenolone as its first ingredient, so that's allowed - remarkable! One of my girl friends in Germany has used it for the last 35 years and swears by it, makes me buy it and mail it to her ever so often...

Charlotte

RE: YES!!!! ALL HORMONES ARE LIPOPHILIC !!!!

Val....this reminds me a a story in the Town andCountry magazine quite a few years ago, on a woman whohad her doctor Rx an estradiol face cream eonsago...worked very very well!! The behemouth cosmeticcompanies would dearly love to do so, but passing theFDA scrutiny is offputting! Hail to "under-the-radar" freedom of the compoundingmagicians, eh?? :)Carolyn--- Valarie wrote:> I don't think the estriol cream on my face goes> systemically at all. Here's> a study about it. Some of you seem to be getting E> from the olive oil so I> wouldn't want to use that on my face (unless I> wanted more E)> > Arch Gynecol Obstet. 1993;253(2):71-4.> > > > When applied to facial skin, does estrogen ointment> have systemic effects?> > Kainz C, Gitsch G, Stani J, Breitenecker G, Binder> M, Schmidt JB.> > 2nd Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics,> University of Vienna, School of> Medicine, Austria.> > We examined cytological vaginal smears of 17 women> before and after three> months of dermal estrogen (1 g of 0.01% estradiol> ointment or 0.3% estriol> ointment once daily), applied to the face for> dermatological indications.> The mean age was 57.1 +/- 7.6 years (range from 46> to 66). Seven women had> estrogenic smears (more than 10% superficial cells)> before therapy. Nine> women were treated with 0.01% estradiol ointment and> 8 were treated with> 0.3% estriol ointment. Both groups had gynecological> examinations including> cervical and vaginal smears before and after> treatment and also monthly> measurements of serum follicle-stimulating hormone,> prolactin and estradiol> levels. Serum hormone levels and the appearance of> vaginal smears showed no> significant change during treatment.> > Val> -----Original Message-----> From: rhythmicliving > [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of> Mcharlot> > > Val, do you think the E-cream on your face does> not give your body too> much E? I'd like to use the olive-oil Eoo on my> face...I've decided not to> go down-face at the chiropractor anymore, like I> used to once a week, -> because it takes too much of a toll on my face> (deepens wrinkles for several> days afterwards, connective tissue weakening, alas!> ...)> __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.http://farechase.yahoo.com

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