Re: Only E?

October 23, 2006

You need P to hold a pregnancy or to protect the endometrium if you are using exogenous E. Since you have no endometrium, that is not a worry for you.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of jettabrouker

I had a hysterectomy and sought the advice of the Dr. after hearing a Wiley talk, sounded to good to be true! She recommended that I NOT do the protocol. But put me on E only - now I hear from another Dr. that I should be on P as well? Anybody have any insight on that?thanks

..

October 23, 2006

Hi, Welcome to the group. From what I understand it depends on the woman and it depends on the dose. Last year Dr. Formby made of list of 11 good BHRT studies that included some with a rhythm and some with E only and some with both. He has told me flat out that studies show that menopausal women don't need P if they are using a dose that doesn't affect the endometrium http://rhythmicliving.org/rhythmicliving/Formby_Summary_11_BHRT_Studies.htmlHe also points out in his other article that if P is used, then vaginal application of a super small dose makes the most sense. http://rhythmicliving.org/rhythmicliving/Formby_P_dominance.htmlI think this one is a must read before using progesterone. Based on what he points to, where we put it on our bodies makes a very big difference in terms of how it is cleared from the body and how it protects the endometrium. LaurelI had a hysterectomy and sought the advice of the Dr. after hearing a Wiley talk, sounded to good to be true! She recommended that I NOT do the protocol. But put me on E only - now I hear from another Dr. that I should be on P as well? Anybody have any insight on that?thanksclick here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice.**

October 23, 2006

I had a hysterectomy as well and my doctor said I did not need P either. I am only using E. P is primarily to prevent build-up of the endometrial lining. Here is one reason one may want to add P if susceptible to epileptic seizures:"The brain has both estrogen and progesterone receptors. In women who have epilepsy, seizures are known to occur more frequently during times of high estrogen (late follicular phase and ovulation) and they are decreased when progesterone is high. In this sense, progesterone acts a a brain anesthetic to some degree. High doses of progesterone can be very sedating."From: http://www.wdxcyber.com/nmood11.htm.I will occasionally use a 20 mg low dose P at night for a week if particularly stressed or anxious. Mostly for its sedating effects. Madeleenjettabrouker wrote: I had a hysterectomy and sought the advice of the Dr. after hearing a Wiley talk, sounded to good to be true! She recommended that I NOT do the protocol. But put me on E only - now I hear from another Dr. that I should be on P as well? Anybody have any insight on that? thanks

How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

October 23, 2006

I'm a hysterectomy girl,too. I've " been without " since age 21 (I'm 54 now).

I'm on progesterone, estradiol, and testosterone. After I added all that

bio-identical and transdermal stuff, I started to feel fabulous, fantastic,

incredible, awesome, and wonderful.

If we don't have our ovaries, we don't have the benefit of all they produced

for our bodies. Remember, our ovaries didn't produce just estrogen.

For example:

Deficiency in progesterone leads to reduction of both glucocorticosteroids

and mineralcorticoids such as cortisol (affects the adrenals which in turn

can affect the thyroid which in turn will affect the entire metabolism).

Progesterone also affects bones by stimulating the osteoblast cells that

rematerialize and restore bone mass. So without enough " P " , there's a risk

of osteoporosis. Without enough testosterone, energy levels take a nose dive

as well as our libido's.

I had considered doing the Wiley Protocol a while back, but instead, I just

gave my body only what it told me (by symptoms) what it needed. I don't know

how well that would work for anyone else, but it seems to be working

wonderfully for me.

Just my 2 cents...

Sam

(thyroid-less, ovary-less, iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

Only E?

I had a hysterectomy and sought the advice of the Dr. after hearing a Wiley

talk, sounded to

good to be true! She recommended that I NOT do the protocol. But put me on E

only - now I

hear from another Dr. that I should be on P as well? Anybody have any

insight on that?

thanks

October 23, 2006

Hey Sam, Could you please give a reference on this...we are trying hard here to make sense of a lot of confusing information. If you say, this is from... page __ of blank book then we know how to file the info in our minds. Or you could say you are traveling with this info in your mind and you have no clue where you got it from.... at least it forewarns the reader's mind to file under "Something Sam remembers from some place". We are trying hard to inoculate ourselves against assertions that go unchallenged. It's part of the WP recovery project - no kidding. BTW, I appreciate you sharing your story about what works for you and how you pulled yourself out of a really terrible place by listening to your body and not giving up. There are new members and your story is inspiring and unusual. LaurelSam wrote:For example:Deficiency in progesterone leads to reduction of both glucocorticosteroidsand mineralcorticoids such as cortisol (affects the adrenals which in turncan affect the thyroid which in turn will affect the entire metabolism).Progesterone also affects bones by stimulating the osteoblast cells thatrematerialize and restore bone mass. So without enough "P", there's a riskof osteoporosis. Without enough testosterone, energy levels take a nose diveas well as our libido's.I

October 23, 2006

Progesterone also affects bones by stimulating the osteoblast cells thatrematerialize and restore bone mass. So without enough "P", there's a riskof osteoporosis.

I think this is a Lee fabrication - more progesterone hype. It is not what research says. A couple articles are below. I listened to Lee for two miserable years and lost bone mass.

Val

Obstet Gynecol. 1999 Aug;94(2):225-8.

Transdermal progesterone cream for vasomotor symptoms and postmenopausal bone loss.Leonetti HB, Longo S, Anasti JN.Department of Obstetric and Gynecology, St. Luke's Hospital, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania 18015, USA.OBJECTIVE: To determine effectiveness of transdermal progesterone cream for controlling vasomotor symptoms and preventing postmenopausal bone loss. METHODS: We randomly assigned 102 healthy women within 5 years of menopause to transdermal progesterone cream or placebo. Study subjects and investigators were masked until data analysis was completed. An initial evaluation included complete history, physical examination, bone mineral density determination, and serum studies (TSH, FSH, lipid profile, and chemistry profile). Subjects were instructed to apply a quarter teaspoon of cream (containing 20 mg progesterone or placebo) to the skin daily. Each woman received daily multivitamins and 1200 mg of calcium and were seen every 4 months for review of symptoms. Bone scans and serum chemistries were repeated after 1 year. RESULTS: Thirty of the 43 (69%) in the treatment group and 26 of the 47 (55%) in the placebo group complained initially of vasomotor symptoms. Improvement or resolution of vasomotor symptoms, as determined by review of weekly symptom diaries, was noted in 25 of 30 (83%) treatment subjects and five of 26 (19%) placebo subjects (P < .001). However, the number of women who showed gain in bone mineral density exceeding 1.2% did not differ (alpha = .05, power of 80%). CONCLUSION: Although we found no protective effect on bone density after 1 year, we did see a significant improvement in vasomotor symptoms in the treated group.

Menopause. 2003 Jan-Feb;10(1):13-8.

Transdermal progesterone and its effect on vasomotor symptoms, blood lipid levels, bone metabolic markers, moods, and quality of life for postmenopausal women.Wren BG, Champion SM, Willetts K, Manga RZ, Eden JA.Sydney Menopause Centre, Royal Hospital for Women, Randwick, Australia. barrygwren@...OBJECTIVE: To determine whether transdermal progesterone cream has any effect on vasomotor symptoms, mood, sexual response, cardiovascular lipid levels, or bone mineral metabolic markers. DESIGN: A parallel, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial comparing the effect of a transdermal cream containing a progesterone (32 mg daily) with a placebo cream. Eighty postmenopausal women in the Menopause Centre at the Royal Hospital for Women, Sydney, were randomly allocated to receive either the progesterone cream or the placebo. They were evaluated using the Greene Climacteric Scale and the Menopause Quality of Life Questionnaire, as well as blood analysis for lipids and bone markers over a period of 12 weeks. Women were prescribed a cream containing either progesterone at 32 mg daily or a placebo cream for a period of 12 weeks. RESULTS: There was no detectable change in vasomotor symptoms, mood characteristics, or sexual feelings, nor was there any change in blood lipid levels or in bone metabolic markers, despite a slight elevation of blood progesterone levels. CONCLUSION: The use of the transdermal route to administer progesterone at 32 mg daily does not seem to allow sufficient hormone to enter the body to achieve a biological effect on lipid levels, bone mineral metabolic markers, vasomotor symptoms, or moods

October 23, 2006

It's what I learned when I wanted to know everything I could about hormones,

before I started replacement again. I assumed this was just common knowledge

stuff. Really. I need links? Ok.

I went and looked for supporting links a litle while ago and found a ton.

The following link seemed to combine everything:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone