to susan

[Guest guest]

,..... Kinda curious here.... you have male pattern HL and yet you

have low DHT conversion based on the testing. What is your T and free

T?

Begin forwarded message:

> Posted by: " Hatfield " hatfield100@...   thetasue

>

>

> My hair loss, however, is male pattern loss, on the top of my

> head, so according to your doctor that is not typical for gut

> inflammation hair loss.

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/growhair/

[Guest guest]

Eileen,

My T was <20 and Free T was <.05. Looking back, my hair loss began when I was into menopause a couple of years and wasn't using any E, only P. I had been scared off by Lee's books and others. When I started to use E, my hair grew back, although I don't think it was as thick as originally but it was acceptable.

Then, in 2004, a doctor put me on high doses of testosterone and the hair loss started again. I thought that if I stopped the T and kept my E high, my hair would grow back again, like it did before. That hasn't been the case though. It seems to be continually getting worse, even though I have been off the T for almost a year now. (The regrowth is so slight and the hairs are so miniaturized that I'm not too excited about it.)

I have had gut issues for decades so I can't see that being the cause of the HL, especially since it was so closely associated in time with hormones.

There is the theory, as you have mentioned, that once the follicles are assaulted by DHT, they become "exquisitely sensitive" thereafter. But, is there anything proving this to be more than a theory? Any studies or clinical observations that you know of?

It's a theory I don't like as it puts me in a position where I have to choose between baldness or osteoporosis. Since my T is so low, Dr. J is suggesting that I may need T to put bone on if my bone scan shows worsening.

By the way, how is the Propecia working out for you? Did Dr. Roby mention any concerns about it messing up your hormones? He must think your HL is DHT related, even though it's not in the male pattern. I thought DHT only caused hair loss in the male pattern.

Reply-To: rhythmicliving To: rhythmicliving yahoogroups <rhythmicliving >Subject: to susanDate: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:50:42 -0400>,..... Kinda curious here.... you have male pattern HL and yet >you have low DHT conversion based on the testing. What is your T >and free T?>>Begin forwarded message:>>> Posted by: " Hatfield" hatfield100@... thetasue>>>>>> My hair loss, however, is male pattern loss, on the top of my>> head, so according to your doctor that is not typical for gut>> inflammation hair loss.>> >http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/growhair/

[Guest guest]

,

Ditto for me with entering peri with Lee's book and being scared away

from E. I also used the P cream as my only BHRT, but went from there

to the pill. Hair loved the E, hated the progestins. What dose of T

were you on that was so high? Sorry if I asked this before, but what

dose of E are you on? E needs to be really high for some women to

revitalize the follicles and grow hair. IMHO we need to use more that

what the body needs to have some left over for the superfluous hair.

The pill, that is often used to put hair back on women's heads and stop

the shedding, is 3-4 times as strong at BioE. I am on 2 .1 V Dots and

6 pumps of E gel over the course of 3 days, and am still under the E of

an average pill! With an E of 340 I think I am just up to my hair

needs with no room to drop.

A T of less that 20 is a good T for hair, speaking in generalities.

It's not if the dread T sensitivity exists. I know of no other source

of information on this other than Redmond. HE likes to remove as much

T as he can. He will tell you that high E protects the follicle better

than anything. Perhaps the theory of T/DHT sensitivity is proven in

reverse. When what little T exists is eliminated the shedding stops.

Many of us in Growhair banter back and forth on this theory. It seems

that Redmond's abolishment of all T for the hair is ineffective in

women with low T to start. At least from the women we know of. He would

argue this I am sure. It did not work for me. Not on the pill and

spiro that is. It caused tremendous shedding and a miniaturization of

many hairs.

re. Propecia. Albertson (Roby's partner) is the one wanted me on the

Propecia and the T at the same time. He didn't feel it would cause any

issues that he knew about. So far I can tell nothing. It's been 1

month so far. I read it can take 15 months to see the effects of it,

but most see some change after 3-6 months. Bottom line for me is that

I feel it is protective of the follicle.

I think we can have a couple different causes of HL operating at the

same time. I had the male pattern when I was only on the P and my T

dominated at a blood level of 17. Right now my T is less than 10.

This is perfect for hair according to Redmond. I just don't buy this.

I do buy the protective aspects of E though. And then I think I have P

allergy shedding, along with hormone changes shedding. Multiple

reasons.

Thanks for sharing with me.

AG

>

> Posted by: " Hatfield " hatfield100@...   thetasue

>

>

> Eileen,

>

> My T was <20 and Free T was <.05. Looking back, my hair loss

> began when I was into menopause a couple of years and wasn't

> using any E, only P. I had been scared off by Lee's books and

> others. When I started to use E, my hair grew back, although I

> don't think it was as thick as originally but it was acceptable.

>

> Then, in 2004, a doctor put me on high doses of testosterone and

> the hair loss started again. I thought that if I stopped the T

> and kept my E high, my hair would grow back again, like it did

> before. That hasn't been the case though. It seems to be

> continually getting worse, even though I have been off the T for

> almost a year now. (The regrowth is so slight and the hairs are

> so miniaturized that I'm not too excited about it.)

>

> I have had gut issues for decades so I can't see that being the

> cause of the HL, especially since it was so closely associated in

> time with hormones.

>

> There is the theory, as you have mentioned, that once the

> follicles are assaulted by DHT, they become " exquisitely

> sensitive " thereafter. But, is there anything proving this to be

> more than a theory? Any studies or clinical observations that

> you know of?

>

> It's a theory I don't like as it puts me in a position where I

> have to choose between baldness or osteoporosis. Since my T is

> so low, Dr. J is suggesting that I may need T to put bone on if

> my bone scan shows worsening.

>

> By the way, how is the Propecia working out for you? Did Dr.

> Roby mention any concerns about it messing up your hormones? He

> must think your HL is DHT related, even though it's not in the

> male pattern. I thought DHT only caused hair loss in the male

> pattern.

>

>

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/growhair/

[Guest guest]

Very interesting what you are discussing.  There is a high E hair pill?  My experience has been that I need high E to keep my hair.  Nothing else affects it like high E.  But I've had the high P in my body for a long time.  The serum and saliva tests are useless for me.  I was overdosed on P on day 21 (staggering amounts of P) and serum showed a 2!  Dr. Formby's article is a brilliant piece explaining this odd response that I saw in myself and many other women on the protocol.   I got male pattern balding only during the luteal phase and I've never had trouble with hairloss in my life except for on the high dose WP.  What saved my hair was more E.  When I was high P then more E could help.  When I was high T even after I was off the protocol and I got P converting I used E and my hair was fine.  When I feel low E I see hairs around.  I suspect anyone who got the P cream (OTC, WP, 10%) who absorbs well has it deep in her cells.  It leaves a footprint.  My IGF-1 and suppressed immune system are two examples of the P footprint.  When it is there I need more E to keep my body in balance and keep my hair.  I haven't figured out all the tricks to counter act the P, but I'm really focusing on detox now.  It embarrasses me to say that I likely got over 30g of P in my body when on the protoco   Then there is the OTC stuff that Dr. Vliet says is usually way more than 2% cream.    She had assays done on many OTC P creams.  Laurel,Ditto for me with entering peri with Lee's book and being scared away from E.  I also used the P cream as my only BHRT, but went from there to the pill.  Hair loved the E, hated the progestins.  What dose of T were you on that was so high?  Sorry if I asked this before, but what dose of E are you on?  E needs to be really high for some women to revitalize the follicles and grow hair.  IMHO we need to use more that what the body needs to have some left over for the superfluous hair.  The pill, that is often used to put hair back on women's heads and stop the shedding, is 3-4 times as strong at BioE.  I am on 2 .1 V Dots and 6 pumps of E gel over the course of 3 days, and am still under the E of an average pill!   With an E of 340 I think I am just up to my hair needs with no room to drop.  A T of less that 20 is a good T for hair, speaking in generalities.  It's not if the dread T sensitivity exists.  I know of no other source of information on this other than Redmond.  HE likes to remove as much T as he can.  He will tell you that high E protects the follicle better than anything.  Perhaps the theory of T/DHT sensitivity is proven in reverse.  When what little T exists is eliminated the shedding stops.  Many of us in Growhair banter back and forth on this theory.  It seems that Redmond's abolishment of all T for the hair is ineffective in women with low T to start. At least from the women we know of. He would argue this I am sure.  It did not work for me.  Not on the pill and spiro that is.  It caused tremendous shedding and a miniaturization of many hairs.re. Propecia.  Albertson (Roby's partner) is the one wanted me on the Propecia and the T at the same time.  He didn't feel it would cause any issues that he knew about.  So far I can tell nothing.  It's been 1 month so far.  I read it can take 15 months to see the effects of it, but most see some change after 3-6 months.  Bottom line for me is that I feel it is protective of the follicle.I think we can have a couple different causes of HL operating at the same time.  I had the male pattern when I was only on the P and my T dominated at a blood level of 17.  Right now my T is less than 10.  This is perfect for hair according to Redmond.  I just don't buy this.  I do buy the protective aspects of E though.  And then I think I have P allergy shedding, along with hormone changes shedding.  Multiple reasons.Thanks for sharing with me.AG Posted by: " Hatfield"  hatfield100@...     thetasue   Eileen,  My T was <20 and Free T was <.05. Looking back, my hair loss  began when I was into menopause a couple of years and wasn't  using any E, only P. I had been scared off by Lee's books and  others. When I started to use E, my hair grew back, although I  don't think it was as thick as originally but it was acceptable.  Then, in 2004, a doctor put me on high doses of testosterone and  the hair loss started again. I thought that if I stopped the T  and kept my E high, my hair would grow back again, like it did  before. That hasn't been the case though. It seems to be  continually getting worse, even though I have been off the T for  almost a year now. (The regrowth is so slight and the hairs are  so miniaturized that I'm not too excited about it.)  I have had gut issues for decades so I can't see that being the  cause of the HL, especially since it was so closely associated in  time with hormones.  There is the theory, as you have mentioned, that once the  follicles are assaulted by DHT, they become "exquisitely  sensitive" thereafter. But, is there anything proving this to be  more than a theory? Any studies or clinical observations that  you know of?  It's a theory I don't like as it puts me in a position where I  have to choose between baldness or osteoporosis. Since my T is  so low, Dr. J is suggesting that I may need T to put bone on if  my bone scan shows worsening.  By the way, how is the Propecia working out for you? Did Dr.  Roby mention any concerns about it messing up your hormones? He  must think your HL is DHT related, even though it's not in the  male pattern. I thought DHT only caused hair loss in the male  pattern.   http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/growhair/